Grade of Buzz's coaching job so far.

I give him an A-. The things he has done with this group of undersized role players is unbelievable. This team has been in almost every conference game. He is bringing out the best in all of these players. Imagine what he will do with his recruits. If you arent onboard the hokie basketball train you need to be.

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Solid A in my book. I did not really expect us to be competitive in most of our league games this season after the dumpster fire that was this program over the last few years. Thats not a knock on the kids on our roster (who, in my opinion, are clearly giving max effort even though they just have their limitations).

As you said, given a few cycles of Buzz recruiting along with his style and passion, I really don't think its unreasonable to expect top half conference finishes on a consistent basis.

While I know the ACC is stacked with blue blood, history rich programs, a top half finish to me is a low bar to set.

Let's Go...

It is a low bar in any other conference, but a top half finish in the ACC as it is currently constructed, unless we have a really weird season (like this one, actually) should result in consideration for an NCAA tournament bid. This season, it looks like only 5 ACC teams or so will get a bid, but with 15 teams in the leauge, and the level of competition we will see in the future, I expect the number of NCAA bids to normalize to about 6.5. In that case, a top half finish is putting you right in the race for a NCAA tournament spot, which is really all you can shoot for at the begninning of the season, unless you definitely have enough talent to fight off Louisville, Duke, UNC and Syracuse (sometimes), and UVA lately for a championship. So, it seems low, but when it gets you that close to a tourney bid, it is pretty reasonable.

Get Angry, Bud!

I agree, as long as every few years we are able complete at the very top of the conference, kind of like the wahoos this year.

Let's Go...

We finished in the top half a few times during the 00s and only got into the tourney once.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster


Let's Go...

We got hosed bigtime on at least 2 of those snubs. Still can't stand Ron Wellman of Wake Forest to this day because of how much he personally screwed us over. He was the rep for the ACC in the committee those years, and when interviewed after the fact, he couldn't even come close to accurately describing our season. He completely forgot about a couple big wins, and added an extra bad loss to our resume. And he was supposed to be the one vouching for us.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

My sister dated a grad assistant the year we were the biggest snub. He told me that Greenberg and Wellman have some big personal beef from years before and that if Greenberg ever needed Wellman's support to get in the tourny it was a lost cause.

Solid A from me, also. It's funny, but when Buzz came to Tech three years ago, a buddy of mine who follows college basketball pretty religiously (he takes vacation days to watch the opening round of the Big Dance every year) told me that Buzz would have VT in the tournament in 2-3 years, guaranteed. I liked hearing that, but I was a bit skeptical, primarily based on the depths of our program just before his arrival. Well, here we are, and I think the turnaround has everything to do with Whit, hiring Buzz to lead the program, and the inspiring coaching and leadership of the program under Buzz.

Like all the teams I follow, I just want those teams to play inspired, competitive ball, and be 'in the hunt' for a title, so to speak. I think in Buzz, we have that, and then some!

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"..because anytime you go upside a man's head, or a woman's, they have a tendency to blink their eyes.." - Deacon Jones

I give him an A-.

Just curious, what would you need to see to give him the A+? What more could he do?

Twitter me

The only knock you can find, that might require the "-" is not finishing games properly in certain situations. Syracuse immediately comes to mind. Maybe the Radford and App St. losses are other reasons for the A- as opposed to the A+. Very solid coaching job so far. As good as advertised as far as I'm concerned..just maybe an explanation for the "-".


Yeah, there are just a few blips on the radar that keeps my grade for him just below a solid "A" and given what he walked into, maybe even said few blips is perfectly acceptable for an A grade. Regardless, I don't think anyone can argue he's done a good job so far and definitely has the program trending in the right direction.

the only thing and this is gettin down to the nitty gritty is a lot of close losses/ blown leads (loluva and syracuse) i know thats petty but my dad always said theres always room for improvement.

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

The reason he isn't a solid A for me is because of the lack of depth on the roster. I know there are scholarship limits and I know we have several players who transferred that we are waiting for to be eligible but using the transfer strategy when you get an injury like Clarke's all the sudden you only have a 7 man rotation and everyone has to be healthy and clicking on all cylinders to compete at the end of the year. Buzz has certainly exceeded expectations and personally, I love him, but to get a solid A I would need a roster more than 7 deep in year three.

It's more like when you get an injury like Blackshear's and all of the sudden you only have a 9 man rotation, then when you get an injury like Hamilton's and all of the sudden you only have an 8 man rotation, and then when you get an injury like Clarke's and all of the sudden you only have a 7 man rotation.

The depth issue was an injury issue first and foremost.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

There was a lot of risk on the roster and it all came up bad debt. Going back to last spring, the risks were:

- KJB had a surgery last March on his ankle, we rolled the dice that he would regain full health;
- We extended a scholarship to Jackson even though GT backed off his commitment when Pastner was hired because of academic issues. He was a late qualifier which could mean clearinghouse issues,
- Seth LeDay was 2nd year JUCO but because he transferred after a year, we probably knew that a scholarship offer to him may result in a delay in his eligibility,
- We let Devin Wilson try football, knowing that he would not be available until January.

Clarke and Hamilton's injuries were in theory, typical yet unpredictable in isolation. What is predictable is that most teams probably lose a player or two during the year. So when you start the season with risk of 4 players then have your standard two injuries, you end up with a 7-man rotation in the last season of two of the best players the program has seen.

What should we have done? No idea, but we have invested a lot of roster space in Jackson and LeDay2 so far, valuable roster space. If it is an investment that pays off in the future, then great. If both struggle to contribute, it may have been too much investment. Would it have been better, if possible, to push hard to keep Pierce and Hudson instead of bringing in LeDay and Jackson? It may have been better in 2017 but maybe not down the line. Or maybe there was no keeping Pierce and Hudson.

It's an amazing combination of events that lead to a 7-man rotation.

Very sneaky with Wilson. He used a football scholarship to redshirt in basketball this year during Allen's senior run. As a result we will have Wilson to supplement 5 next year.

Considering the atmosphere that he walked into on day one, I give him an A. He set out this year to develop a strong foundation that will begin the upward climb towards his expectations. Even though the team is ,by far, one of the least talented teams in the ACC, Buzz has gotten these guys to buy into the fact that each night they will fight till the last second of the game. It speaks volumes when you see a last place team still play like they are out to prove something at this point in the year. Buzz has already, IMHO, taken this team further then I have seen any VT team in a long time, and that include some of the good Greenburg teams. Throw records out and tell me a more hard nosed, scrappy team in the ACC. I could see him getting some coach of the year votes.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

I would give him a B. Part of the reason we are so thin on the roster has been attrition. Getting the right player for a scheme is paramount, but a good coach needs to be able to work with what he has in the meantime. Buzz's my way or the highway stance will pay off in years to come, but I would have liked to see more molding than cutting. The effort from the team we have has been outstanding and Buzz deserves credit for that.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

I agree with the B rating and reasoning. The attrition caused by his mentality/intensity likely has cost us a few games this year and has made some wins much closer than they should have been; imagine the result of the GT game with JVZ contesting some of those offensive rebounds.

Although its hard to judge a guy for having a certain mentality that he knows gets results. A B is far from bad and is better than anything Id give to any other new coaching hires across the country.

West Virginian by birth, Hokie by choice

A, if not A+

I think it's hard to give out grades this year. I would say this year is like kindergarden. Draw a few triangles and move on to first grade.

Buzz as a Kindergartener:

I give him an A. I'm not sure that you can really blame him for the attrition because that happens at every school when there is a new coach. This team has no business competing against in some of the games that they do and that is a testament to the coaching job he has done. Add in how well he is recruiting, and the future looks bright.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

Oh, it's definitely on Buzz, but it itsn't necessarily a bad thing. Apparently it happened all the time at Marquette. There are a ton of good basketball players who can't handle what Buzz demands and can't play the game the way he wants it played. We're gonna be seeing a good amount of attrition this year as well, just a heads up. He's gonna get his guys in and open up spots if/when he needs to.

I'd say an A. He brings intensity, smarts, and cohesion to the players. I love the way he uses timeouts, you always see him drawing a play immediately; it's clear that he is really observing his players from a controlled perspective. I like the fact that he remains composed, even in big shot moments when the game is still close.

The only thing I don't like is the struggles they have during inbound passes. I could be wrong, but I feel like they struggle on that more than other teams. It was worse last year though, by far.

Right now, an A... He's doing the absolute best he can with what he has been given to work with. He's coaching these kids into each game they play despite the numerous mistakes Freshmen tend to make.

What I'm seeing right now out of this team is the groundwork being laid for a program that will be in contention for an ACC title 2-3 years from now with the foundation in place to continue the momentum long-term.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I'm not a coach or hoops wiz but I'd say a solid B+/A- for the same reasons TSprad listed. I hope by next season Buzz and the team will be able to shake off the rust from the Johnson and Greenberg eras.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I give him an A. As far as attrition goes, I like it! I'd rather have 5 dudes I know I can trust and rely on than 15 "maybe's" You got to cut the fat off before you see the six pack!

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." Kenny Powers

Attrition isn't good. We need to get out of that mindset that it is acceptable. VT Hoops has been sunk by attrition over the last decade. Coach K just sent his first player packing. His first.

I know it has become common at VT and it is common across college basketball, but we need it to stop. Yes, next year, we will see hopefully as few as one player leaving, maybe as many as three. I have a pretty good idea who I think it should be, from a basketball perspective, but then...that's it. Keep players. Grow a program and a culture that is based on recruiting the right guys and keeping them until they are mature players. Stop with the "Buzz is just too demanding" justification. That's just a waste of resources, momentum and a degradation of a winning culture.

The thing is, that's how he's always done it. For whatever reason, whether it's a decision made by Buzz or the players, his teams have always seen a high amount of attrition. Is that inherently good or bad? I dunno, but Buzz has been successful before with that kind of a program.

There are 2 ways to approach this

  1. Duke took the opposite road FSU took with an all star.
  2. Duke being Duke gets to really chose the Top Players and has always stayed away from players they see as not team players

Rasheed Sulaimon came to life in the 2nd half of last season(except the UVA game). Came to be the 5* player he was. Then this year he's riding the bench

Also Coach K may have always been able to usher the bad apples to the NBA

We'll agree to disagree. Attrition comes in many ways. The players may not like how the coach's scheme, style, demands, expectations etc etc. So he wants to leave or quits, can't make him stay and the coach isn't going to change for one kid, or even 3 kids who if they're good enough will only be around for a year or two.

Another way is a kid is kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons. I believe in 2nd chances as much as the next however, it depends on the transgression. I do not want a kid who constantly gets in trouble or brings negative media attention to the university all the time around just because we can win games with him. Sooner or later in life that individual will be held accountable for his actions rather it's at the next school, job, or with the law.

Before my last deployment I was a Platoon Sergeant, which translates as the senior enlisted guy of about 40 dudes who makes sure they accomplish what the Platoon leader has asked us to do. I'm also the disciplinarian, father figure, financial manager, marriage short I have my hand in every facet of everyones lives. We had this dude who was a stellar Soldier while in combat or training missions. Other dudes loved to fight with him, and looked up to him. However, as soon as you got back in garrison he could not control himself. DUI's, fights, you name it. After getting him every bit of professional counseling I could and busted him down in rank I made the difficult decision to let him go and move him to another company. It wasn't popular with the other guys in the platoon or the platoon leader but it was my decision and the best one for the platoon. Being in charge is not a popularity contest, it's called leadership not likership.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." Kenny Powers

Yep! I'd rather 10 lions than 100 sheep!


Buzz gets an A!

He has VT playing Team basketball, passing the ball to get easy points inside or going inside and dishing the ball out for open 3 pointers, players setting screens, taking charges and contesting shots and leaving everything they have on the court.

VT basketball is fun to watch. Buzz is always coaching till the very last second and his team never seems to give up playing to the very end. I also LOVE, how EVERY player on the court rushes over to help a Hokie up from the floor!

It been a while since I have been this excited about the future of VT Basketball.

How long to a marque win?
How long until VT makes the NCAA tournament?

I think Buzz will deliver and soon!
Lets Go Hokies!

Stop it with the Negative Waves!

A+, easily. He has brought a new mentality to the program that will bring success soon. I don't remember seeing such effort from an entire team for my experience with watching these basketball teams. The fact that his players don't quit, even if down 20, is a great sign. When we get a full year or two of Buzz coaching, the games where we lose by 3 or less will turn into wins, especially when we get depth (especially in the post) and more talent than recent coaches had brought to the program. We all knew this would be a rebuilding year for VT basketball, and Buzz has done a hell of a job handling it. Go Buzzketball!!!

I give him a C. There is more to coaching than X and O's. He is doing fine there. He must stop his sideline antics. Getting on the floor, getting in the Coach Stay out of Box, and then there's his Walking like a Tenn. Walking Horse when only 5 points ahead of Va. with 12 mins. to go. That was embarrassing. The after the game quotes about the players in the Roanoke Times makes me mad. I don't think he cares if any of the players are here next yr. Bibbs was a great find { not by him, his was Pierce} and I would hate to see Bibbs leave. I know I will get hammered, but I'm a coach's wife,[ for 39 yrs.] I can take it.


You are one of the few people on this thread, if not the only, to take this stance. But I guarantee many Hokies have similar feelings. I am one of them, I think.Buzz is one hell of a coach. But I hope he tones down the antics. I don't think he will because Buzz is Buzz, and that is him. His energy is contagious and the team benefits from it. Sometimes it feels like the Buzz show, and sometimes that can take away from the team. I don't think it is intentional, but I hope he stays conscious of this.Right now though, I'm very happy with hire and we will see where this thing goes.

"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

I'll give you a leg, and welcome to TKP!

I disagree with you about everything except the comments in the Roanoke Times. I honestly don't care about the antics though. he could dress like a peacock and grunt like a gorilla all game if it translated into wins, for all I care. Many a much more successful coach than Buzz have been highly animated, if not more so than he. Does it make it the right thing to do? No. Would I be doing that? No. But then again, I am not a successful ACC College Basketball coach either, so perhaps if I were I would be like that.

But I think C is far too low. This team not only wouldn't exist but perhaps would be looking at only 1 or 2 wins had Johnson still been here. As with the football team when new coaches took over, the talent pool cupboard was bare and what he has managed to do on a pure success level with this team in year 1 far exceeds what anyone should have been expecting this year. So by that on it's own I would give him at least a B+/A- at minimum.

As others have already said, that's kinda the deal you get with Buzz. The guy is a spark plug and honestly, can we agree this team needed that after being dormant for so many years? It's like the Browns knocking Manziel's off-the-field antics: you get what you paid for. I think Buzz has done a fine job, and his passion for these guys is incredible. And if you don't believe that passion is real by now, not sure what team you've been watching.

"It might be dark outside, but it's LeDay in here." - Jay Bilas

B+. Non-conference play left a lot to be desired, and the WVU game especially was a train wreck in the 2nd half. Plus, giving away the Syracuse and UVA game late wasn't fun to watch.

With that being said, though, I have never really seen a coach do what Buzz Williams has done with the lineup he has been given. Most coaches aren't even put in this position. Buzz knew what he was getting into when he took this job, and he took it head on. Almost every game in conference play, not to mention the ACC is the toughest in the county, has been close. He has a certain way of motivating the players that I have never seen before.

Seth Greenberg was good, but I always thought he struggled to get his plauers motivated. James Johnson really just wasnt ready to coach big time basketball, and Ricky Stokes was just a nightmare if we want to go that far back.

Buzz is the real deal, and with some fine tuning and a more impressive roster, the best is yet to come.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Wow! I'm impressed by the generosity. I don't know how 2 wins in the ACC deserves anything better than a C. Statistically speaking, and in similar situations, Loeffler has done better than Buzz. I doubt we would see A's on Loeffler's report card.

I would give Buzz a C. While he's gotten the most out his players, he's still near last place. And by definition, any coach can get last place. I see the potential, and I think he'll be getting A's in 2 years, but last place is last place.

🦃 🦃 🦃

I'm curious where you expected this team to be given it's circumstances. Being last place is not a measure of how well he is coaching if that team otherwise would be much worse, so what you are saying is that 50% of coaches could do better than Buzz has with this team. That seems overly generous to 50% of coaches out there.

I'm not grading on a curve. As far as I can tell, the standings in the ACC are absolute "grades." That's my starting point. He get's extra credit for the effort, the way he presents himself, and the attitude of the players. So essentially, he deserves an D on a grading scale, but he works so hard he deserves to be bumped up to a C.

And to counter your argument. If you give him an A based on a curve, then you would say 90% of coaches would do worse than Buzz and only 10% could do the same or better. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a lot more than 10% of coaches could get two wins in the ACC with this lineup. In reality, it doesn't really matter. Making any argument about grading on a curve is all conjecture.

🦃 🦃 🦃

I have a hard time grading Buzz based off the ACC standings this year. The fact that he has already led this team to more wins than last year with arguably worse talent and no ACC caliber bigs (I think Pierce will get there eventually, but not yet) is impressive. Florida is having an off year this year, does that mean that Billy Donovan is only gets a C or D grade? Absolutely not. It's because the team he has this year doesn't have very much talent. Same goes with Beilein, Boeheim, etc. And Buzz is still dealing with 10X less talent than those guys have and yet still has us competing in nearly every game. We all knew this year was going to be a struggle, heck I'm sure even Buzz knew that. Grading him off the ACC standings this year just doesn't make much sense to me.

Coach K's teams struggled in his first few years at Duke. UVA was under .500 during Bennett's first year. But you could tell that with both those teams that a program was being built and I think that you can tell that with what Buzz is doing with our program right now as well. So yes, with what have seen both recruiting wise and coaching wise, I think it is logical to give him an A for what he is doing right now.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

Maybe it's the scientist in me, but I don't like to rate based on conjecture, arguments, or subjective measures. I am basing my rating on the objective bottom line, wins and losses. I can see what he is building. I see this team could eventually get in the top-half of the ACC. As of right now, I just can't fathom how two wins in the ACC is an A.

If you give an outstanding 5th grader (not a genius) a test in calculus, the kid is going to fail. Sure the kid works super hard, studies all night, practices all day, but the kid just doesn't have the tools necessary for that level. That's where Buzz and Hokies are at right now. A 5th grader taking a calculus test.

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But coaching is all subjective. Coach puts in value A and players exert effort B (which is both independently different per person and per person per game/practice) which equals C - Z results in every game.

So basing grading of coaching based purely on results isn't accurate. As the saying goes, ultimately t's the jimmy and joes, not the x's and o's. The coach could be the best coach in the world and still only get a handful of wins from this team. That doesn't mean his ability or quality of coaching can be measured solely by those wins though. Frank Beamer is a good example of this, where his level of coaching in those first years if measured purely wins was bad and he was close to being fired. however, his ability to coach measured subjectively meant the administration gave him the time needed to prove he can build a program and he did. You could say his grade was a D in those first year, but that is only accurate by the results not by his ability to coach.

I don't think this is on a curve. It's just a straight grade. A, B, C, D, F I said 50% because it's middle of that grading scale, but you could argue that a C is actually 70% not 50%, so that's fine but I still disagree that 30% of all coaches could do better. But agree to disagree.

Wikipedia Educational Assessment

Criterion-referenced assessment, typically using a criterion-referenced test, as the name implies, occurs when candidates are measured against defined (and objective) criteria.

Norm-referenced assessment (colloquially known as "grading on the curve"), typically using a norm-referenced test, is not measured against defined criteria. This type of assessment is relative to the student body undertaking the assessment.

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I didn't say grading systems aren't on a curve, I meant I don't think this premise is on a curve. If it is then you need to give every coach a grade and establish that curve. And even you do all that work and find your curve it still doesn't take into account the subjective nature of coaching that pure wins/losses don't reflect. Too much information is missing.

Um, pardon me but, we are in third to last.

Let's Go...

add n syracuses postseason ban an we r 4th from last

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

I think 3rd to last is "near last place." Reasonable persons could differ though.

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Our team is made primarily of players who were in high school this time last year. Of the guys who were on the team prior to this season, only Adam Smith and Devin Wilson are significant contributors, both of which were first year players with the program last season. To really expect anything more out of this team than what they've given to us this year is really setting your bar too high. This season was never about wins and losses, it was about developing into a strong unit that will contend down the line. To be honest, 2 ACC wins is probably 2 more ACC wins than most people predicted we'd have at the start of this season. And when you factor in that JVZ stepped away from our program, leaving us with no offensive threat near the basket in a tandem of 2 first year players, the fact we're doing as well as we are right now is a testament to the outstanding job that Buzz Williams is doing.

So long story short, you assessment of Buzz is completely and utterly unfair, as you're casting the blame on the state of the program, with a complete lack of senior leadership and talent, having to rely solely on freshmen and first year players, which coaches universally say is never a good situation to be in, on Buzz. He is legitimately doing the best he can with the situation he was given.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I want to give an A, but then I don't understand what he's thinking when we are getting blugeoned by Charles Mitchell with Satchel Pierce at 7-0 250 sitting on the bench. Very puzzling to be to be dominated by a post guy and not counter with a guy who could play behind him and D him up.

Pierce made Christmas look like fool with his post D in the first part of the SU game with a couple blocks and making him change his shot.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Pierce also fouled out with 7 minutes to go in that Syracuse game against Christmas.

As good as he plays defensively, he's cannot control how much he fouls. The second he fouled out of that Syracuse game, the tide began to turn, and when Henry fouled out a couple mins later, with Buzz being unable to sub anyone in due to Pierce already having a permanent seat next to him, the game completely changed in their favor.

I really don't blame Buzz for sitting Pierce for long stretches until he can get his fouls under control. Its the only way to ensure we have a decent big man available in crunch time late.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I was just about to post this. I agree with everything you said above and I want to add that Buzz is an analytics guy and he wants players on the floor that contribute a positive overall score. Beyer and Henry, while they did give up points to Mitchell, also scored. Henry finished with 10, I believe. Satchel is a big man, but he fouls and isn't a reliable scorer. Putting him on the floor for any length of time drives our score down, relative to the other team. Beyer and Henry at least keep it even.

I thought it was interesting during the broadcast of the previous game that the announcers said, according to the teams internal analytics, they start every game losing by 14. This may not always play out on the court, but it gives an idea about what we are dealing with in terms of scoring, defense, rebounding, turnovers, etc.

All in all, I think Buzz has done a fantastic job with what he has. We could easily have 4 more wins than we do currently, and were 1-2 shots away from beating several teams we had no business beating. It is perhaps the best example I have ever seen of motivation. He must be one of the best motivators to coach college ball.

Get Angry, Bud!

I don't think he learns to play without fouling.... unless he plays. The guys does a lot of really good things when he's in- sets massive screens and is a good passer from the high post. I wonder if he's a little in the doghouse for something.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Pierce is a non-factor and borderline liability on offense. I think he's a good defender and that eventually he'll grow into a good offensive weapon. In the meantime Henry, and to a lesser extent Beyer, present a more balanced mix of offensive and defensive capabilities.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The offensive game will come around for Pierce eventually. If I remember correctly (and I could be way off) JVZ had issues with getting his shots to fall early in his career, but it eventually clicked and he turned into a decent player (same with Diakate, though not to the same level). Eventually the shots will start to fall for Pierce, of that I'm not overly worried, and he'll be a great player to have underneath. Same with Henry. The problem I have with them both right now is their habits of taking cheap fouls.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Even just half a year into his first year Pierce is above JVZ with his offensive game. He's shown some really nice baby hooks, can actually face up and make a 10 footer. I think he needs to play to get confidence in his post offense. I look at him like Mueller earlier in the year- had the ability but his confidence level was way down. Now if Henry continues to show the scoring ability he showed last game, yeah play him more

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'


Pros: He has the team playing hard most nights (great in ACC, had a few off nights around the holidays). He is getting far more out of some of the guys than I ever expected. The team has become more than the sum of its parts, which I believe is the ultimate compliment for a coach. You can see that the players have bought in to his message and the way he wants them to play. The fact that he benched 300 lbs. during the day and then came out wearing a VT argyle sweater at half-time to get his second ACC W.

Cons: The ''off'' nights have been very bad. As stated previously, the in-bounds and breaking the press leave a lot to be desired. Losing a couple of the close games were tough. The poor free throw shooting, which I always blame on coaching though maybe unfairly. I still have a problem with the JVZ situation.

I have no idea what happened and why he was initially suspended, but I really wish we had him right now. I understand kicking him off is it was warranted, but if there was any room at all for him to stay I think we would be a much better team right now. This doesn't negatively affect his ranking in my mind but as the head coach and CEO, all personnel matters are on him. Some of the game situations and match-up issues we have run into relate to that decision.

As far as his antics - this is what we signed up for. This is nothing new (see his dance at WVU). I have always felt that building a rapport with the referees is important and not something that is ever focused on. Some of this is his way to do that and some is just his style.

'95 @UVA, '95 Sugar Bowl, '96 @Miami, '99 flip, '03 v Miami, '05 Bourbon St., '09 Coale, '14 @OSU

It appears I'm late on the grades, but a few things to really show the change. RECRUITING
(If I could make the letters dance I would have done that to)

VT Class rank
2012 87th
2013 63rd
2014 23rd
2015 20th

Extra credit points for me
Style - Loving this new Hokie gear
Attitude - Attitude is everything. And helps everyone invovled
Delivering tickets and Pizza personally (marketing or not)


Cant forget about the transfers he brought in during the last CBB Free Agency either. Seth Allen is a legit 1/2 guard. Zach Leday I have not watched much of, but he at least has the height to play down low. Coach Roc approved of the get, so I'm happy to have another big body with some game experience heading into next season.

Id hedge to say the Hokies will have one of the best guard rotations in the ACC next season, as every player slotted to come back has some court time.

And...we manage pretty darn well with this 4 guard lineup when we can get Buzz's valued 'paint touches' and hit open looks. A couple decent big bodies to rotate that snag an occasional rebound and we could be sneaky dangerous in the ACC even next season. We will see them get slammed on the boards some nights, but the sheer speed on that 4 guard rotations should be a matchup nightmare.

What a job all those recruits have done


This pretty much sums it up...

95% of what I say is sarcastic. The other 5% is usually taken out of context.

Any news on any possible new recruits? I know we have made a few new offers, wondering if any will come to fruition.

Probably won't know much more until after the season.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

Check Plus


I give him a solid A. Our players are actually developing during the season, they fight hard every game, I don't see as many lazy passes, the culture is changing. I am very happy with the progress we are making. We already have as many ACC wins as last year and we continue to improve as a team.

A+infinity forever

Outside its night time, but inside its LeDay

Still has to be an A.

He hasn't won a national championship yet so I'm going to have to go with C. /s

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

If Fuente or Buzz win a national championship I'm going to put a portrait of them in my house.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Wait so you don't already have one of both of them....asking for a friend.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

The one with both of them is expected, but first to a championship gets one with just their face in it.

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

If either of them wins a Natty, we're renaming the respective stadium (or court, in the event that Cassell gets a sponsor).

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

From me it's a solid B+ for Buzzketball. Take us back to the dance next season and beyond the 1st round, then it's an easy switch to A -> A+ for me.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I don't mind A for this year, this was supposed to be a rebuilding year. We redshirted a lot of talent rather than forcing them in early.

not quite.

we were projected to be our deepest team in Buzz's tenure with a talented true Post in Blackshear sharing time with LeDay and being backed up by another true Post in Sy and a reserve big man in Hamilton. Combined with a deep backcourt / wing brigade we had a shot a very balanced team. Blackshear and and Hamilton going out with injuries for the season really limited our depth, leaving only undersized LeDay and freshman Sy. Even if Hamilton was only going to be spot contributor, he could have given LeDay a few min rest per game.

Clarke going out with a torn ACL obviously was not part of some redshirt strategy.

missing players 2016-17:
Blackshear - redshirted due to injury (missed at least 2/3 of the season to injury/rehab, minimum)
Hamilton - sat out / redshirted due to injury
Jackson - redshirted due to undisclosed off-court reasons (rumor is delays in NCAA Clearinghouse and eligibilty concerns)
Wilson - redshirted due to missing 2/3 of the season by participating in football
LeDay - redshirted due to transfer rules
Fullard (walk-on) - redshirted due to transfer rules

I don't see anyone being parked on the bench to save talent for later.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I don't get the Doc Rivers gif response. Please elaborate.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Ok. I'm gonna presume you disagree with my grade. Ok. It's not like a gave him a: B, B-, etc. Last I checked a B+ is very good and my B+ is razor thin between it and an A (I'd almost give him an A-). If we would have made it past Wisky, it would have been a definite A. Besides, I didn't see you give this same reaction to HITW below.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Petition to make Doc Rivers GIF a more used thing on TKP. Dang these are awesome. Keep em comin' fellas.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Oh you like?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"


Buzz did a heck of a job, but for that A grade, I would have like to see a few things:
1. Improvements in ball handling - the turnovers continued to plague us (sounds like some other sport we play).
2. Rebounding - didn't see a much improvement over the year
3. Personnel and attrition. Buzz did a great thing by getting us this far considering the personnel issues. When all is said and done though, its his squad and we weren't left with too many bodies to work with.
4. Winning that first game - I mean, Wisconsin was winnable for sure. Hokies played their hearts out, but at no point was the game out of reach.

I'm proud of heck of the team, and Buzz's coaching. Lots to be excited for next year!

  1. Agreed for the most part. A lot of our turnovers were a function of our style of play. We want to make those long passes and score in transition. Just have to be a little more selective about it. We definitely had too many headscratchers in the half court where we just slung it out of bounds though.
  2. 30+ mpg at our 5 spot was 6'5"-6'7" depending on who you asked, and as long as Buzz thinks setting the half court defense is statistically more important than sending bodies after offensive rebounds then we'll continue to see what we saw this year.
  3. Buzz made a silk purse out of an injured sow's ear, especially after Clarke went down. The amount of redshirting we did this year was by design to give us more sustainable growth over the next few seasons. I doubt we have rotation problems like this again for a good long while barring a resurgence of this season's injury bug.
  4. We'll definitely get there under the current trajectory.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Yeah I agree with all of this. A lot of the issues we saw this year were because the roster just isn't where it yet needs to be, which is pretty much a direct result of us needing to completely restock 2 seasons ago. The good thing is, the redshirting we did this past year, while it essentially had us playing with one arm behind our back, it actually should pay dividends for the next 3-4 seasons, as we should finally have depth across the board so that we're not SPOF'd with an injury.

Now, I have heard rumors that Sy might be considering a transfer, and I hope that doesn't happen. With a year of weight training to get to the point where he can post up and hang with the other bigs in this conference, he could seriously dominate down low, and we would have a pretty lethal 1-2 with him, and Blackshear. That's really the missing piece for our program to get to where we want to be, and would allow us to really show what we can do.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I sure hope whatever rumors are floating around about Sy transferring aren't true as well.

I think he's an important piece moving forward, not only as a backup for Blackshear, but to provide a lineup that potentially cause matchup problems for other teams with both big guys on the floor. Given Blackshear's decent range for a big guy, I think there are workable lineups where he and Sy could play alongside each other.

I could see a lineup of Robinson-Bibbs-Outlaw-Blackshear-Sy getting some good minutes. That would have enough shooters on the floor to stretch the defense but still give Sy room on the low block and Blackshear in the high post.

Even if they never play a minute together though, they're both going to be important since it would provide a like for like substitution when/if foul trouble occurs.

I'm not just talking about offensive rebounds. We've gave away a LOT of second chance points last night (and throughout the season). I'd like to see an improvement on that statline

This year, Buzz did a great job doing more with less. Next year, we'll have to see what he can produce with a lot of green talent.

30+ mpg at our 5 spot was 6'5"-6'7"

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

half a foot is giving up a ton under the rim (offensive or defensive) in a league full of 7 footers

edit: just in case it's not clear, I'm agreeing with you, VT_Fencer

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I gotchca. But yeah, you could really see it on display last night. No amount of "rebound better" was going to help LeDay and Outlaw get over those Wisconsin bigs in putback situations.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

stupid question...what is mpg? minutes per game?

Yes, I use too much shorthand with stats sometimes.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I was listening to the NCSU broadcasting crew during the ACCT (I do like how all the schools announce every game for their home audience, and not just their own games) and they made a good point about the way we play. When you go to the zone, which we do against teams with size to help neutralize it and keep everything outside, it tends to keep us all playing with our back to the rim, and under those circumstances the opponent generally has the advantage because they're able to better react to where the ball is.

With Blackshear back next year, and if we can keep Sy around and bulk him up a bit, we should be able to go man to man far more often against teams with size, which should dramatically improve our ability to clean up the defensive boards. A lot of the issues we have this year were because we just don't have the depth and size needed to go toe to toe with the bigger teams.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay


We put the K in Kwality

I'm pretty sure the answer is 42.

I'd say an A atleast I think he's done exceptionally well with what he's gotten talent wise I'd like to see a little size in the team in the future to help out our rebounding and second chance offense which I view as our biggest weakness but I think in our recruits coming in both look extremely talented natural ball handlers, Bede just won player of the year for AA if I read the article announcing it correctly and Walker looks phenomenal whether we have the guys to replace Lebeast and Seth clutch Allen I can't say. Outlaw looks bright for next year as does Robinson hopefully Clarke stays healthy and we can be deeper longer into the year

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

how many of these are you sitting on?

I swear to drunk, I'm not God

I've got a few. Would you prefer I bring back an old friend?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

To make your day better, picture Buzz walking out onto the court just like that.

You don't think that's real?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

VT's RPI in JJ's last year was 295

So far? A+++

And BC's RPI is 217 this year, and was 250 last year.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

This ^^^ is the key stat that really matters.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Because RPI is a legitimate stat that makes complete sense and we should take it seriously

Outside its night time, but inside its LeDay

No, but it does show that BC is sucking. And that is something I thoroughly enjoy and take great pleasure in.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Three year turnaround from ACC basement to top half of the conference? Yes.
First NCAA tournament appearance in 10 years? Yes.
Teaching a group of boys what it takes to be a man, both on and off the basketball court? Hell Yes.

Buzz gets an A+ because he's doing things the right way. He's the perfect fit for the school.

closer to the NCAA basement

Standing ovation haha. Obviously beating Wisc would've been great but I just don't recall anyone expecting this level of success in season 3 when the hire was made, especially outside of Hokie Nation but also between us. Add in the huge uptick in recruiting, the outstanding moves on the transfer market, and the fact that we have 4star commit in 2018 already as well as the #1 recruiting class in the nation in 2019....... Hahaha unreal. Obviously that will change when other top guys commit but he literally couldnt do any better than that right now.

Also going from cellar dweller to the best shooting team in the ACC (FG% and 3pt%) is something I never expected. I guess what I'm saying is the Wisconsin game means less to me than those other factors in grading the progress. A+

A. Buzz coached around some major depth issues this year. Moving forward in recruiting, we need to get some size. ACC games we need someone down low for defense and can work the in and out game on offense. Sy has the potential to be that guy with time and a few off seasons in the weight room. Our bigs need some bulk to them. Other than that, we have the guys we need on the roster in order to be successful.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

I've touched on this in other posts, but we don't just need "size." A prototypical center isn't going to fly. Sure, if an All-American like Swanigan what's to come to Blacksburg, then let them come, but we need big men in the mold of a Kaminsky, Leday or the Jeter kid from Pitt. Guys who can body up down low, but also stretch the floor and don't hog up space down low for guys like Five and Med who like to go to the rim. Needs to be able to hit a three now and then too. Can screen and roll. Can screen and pop. Can take a bigger guy outside and beat them off the dribble. Cause mismatches, but still big enough to not get dominated on the other end.

I think with Blackshear we might still be playing right now. He's the perfect fit for us. Hope his redshirt year was used like LeDay and Allen's. Need more Blackshears. Love Dream, I think he can develop, but he doesn't help us on offense right now and you just can't play him because his defense and rebounding just isn't there on the other side of the ball.

Always choose joy.

Yep, yep and yep.

We don't need size for the sake of size. We can't give up mobility for height. Buzz has never done that and won't. We won't be FSU or Louisville. We can't recruit UNC's bigs.

KJB was a 6'8" wing when we recruited him, he grew 2" and when we last saw him, was trying to understand life as a post player. He's got a good 3-point shot and could be the perfect weapon next year....Zach LeDay with a legitimate 3point shot and more height/bulk.

Sy has size but until he defends the rim and rebounds to match his size, his game isn't offering enough to have him on the court more minutes. He's big and he has some awareness of how to finish, that's valuable (without that, he's Johnny Hamilton). Hopefully we can get Sy meaner and more aggressive on the defensive end and on the glass.

Final point: the market inefficiency......the MoneyBall of college basketball recruiting is undersized bigs. Find a guy like LeDay or (hopefully) PJ Horne (or maybe 2019 commit BJ Mack) who have post moves at 6'6" and you can get a good player that the bigger schools overlook. I'm in full support of as many Bonzie Colson types as we can sign.

BJ mack is a 6'7" 250 pound sophomore in high school. Dude could legitimately be a monster by the time he enrolls.

BJ Mack is up to 6'8"... and had a fantastic Top 80 (120) camp in N.C. a couple weeks ago. (so did our twin PG commits)

BJ Mack, Charlotte Christian, 6-8, 2019

The Virginia Tech commit showcased an advanced skill set in the post and has the ability to step out and hit the mid-range jump shot.

Read more here:

Bucky has been hanging with BJ... saw him listed at 6-9 260 (seriously)

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

I'm guilty of assuming this myself because shooting looks natural for KJB, but are we really sure he's a good 3-point shooter?

In his freshman year he averaged almost 20 minutes per game, but only attempted 17 3-pointers (and only made 4).

Are we getting ahead of ourselves on this one?

Sure, we really don't know a lot about KJB. But he was thought of as being a solid 3 point shooter....then he started out so poorly. 0-6 the first month, climbed all the way up to 2-14 by mid January....then just shut it down the rest of the year.

But the bar is pretty low if we are comparing him to LeDay, who shot 27% this year. If KJB can shoot in the 30's, he can get big guys to respect him. But can KJB take it to the rim like LeDay did? Probably not.

All he needs to do is stretch the court and keep his defender honest. Keep a big out of the paint to let Five and Med work.

Always choose joy.

from 11 wins to a NCAA berth in 3 years if he doesnt get an A u should be locked up. We matter again!

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

When we was hired my best case scenario was:
year 1 - do not be last in the ACC, improve recruiting
year 2 - have a winning record, improve recruiting
year 3 - be competitive (.500) in the ACC, go dancing. improve recruiting
year 4 - have wining record in the ACC, get to the sweet 16 or better, improve recruiting
years 5-10 repeat and move up a spot in the ACC each year until we finish first.

Looking what I thought would be best case vs what he did, especially with injuries this year, I have to give an A+.
Yes, it would have better to make the sweet 16, or ACC finals, but I find it unfair to change the grading scale because he over achieved last year, or almost did even more better than I though possible this year.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

I still got wood

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I'd give him an A-. I'd throw him an A if he was more willing to adapt his game plan / recruit bigger players and branch out from his system. His stubbornness and refusal to play put out a traditionally sized lineup against good teams that play a more traditionally sized lineup is frustrating. We rely on the 3 pointer too much so when our shooters are cold we lose.

We will never win the rebound battle the way we play. We will always give up more second chance points to good opposing teams the way we play. That keeps it from being an A.

We've got some bigs on the roster, we had Sy playing at 6'10'' who did good for a true freshman, IMO. Blackshear at 6'10'', and Hamilton (i think) at 7'0'' out with injuries, and Nick Fullard at 6'10'' redshirting. Assuming Blackshear is back, and Sy and Hamilton progress during the off season, and Fullard is serviceable (I don't know anything about him), we should be a little better off next year with regards to size.

Gotta play with what you got, and IMO, for only having one big guy able to play, we did better than we should have.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I would've given him an A if he had played the following lineup one single time this season -

1 - Justin Robinson or Seth Allen
2 - Seth Allen or Justin Bibbs
3 - Ahmed Hill or Chris Clarke
4 - Zach Leday
5 - Khadim Sy

And, again, I'm not bashing Buzz as a coach, but even Bill Belichick adjusts his game plan at halftime if it's not working out.

I can agree with that

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I don't understand why people are always so hellbent on putting worse players on the court just because it matches up with the opponent.

Put your best players on the court, make them match up with you.

The plan was for Blackshear to get a lot of minutes this year, but quite likely it would have been a lot of Blackshear *or* LeDay on the court, not LeDay *and* Blackshear.

Sy was pressed into service early when Blackshear was ruled out and Hamilton didn't turn out to be much of a contributor (and then got hurt).

Hamilton isn't back next year BTW. Senior this year, and while we could apply for a medical waiver because he missed so much of the season, there is no indication that will happen (and no scholarship available).

Good catch on Hamilton, I honestly had no idea he was a senior.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Generally when you shoot cold from the three you lose. No matter if you're a massive team like FSU or a team like us. It's about a game of mismatches. You have a better chance of winning if you mismatch then try to match with worse players.

Yes, our defensive rebounding was subpart this year...we also were playing most of our minutes with players below 6'7. We're not supposed to win the rebounding war. We aren't going to sacrifice rebounding for an ineffective offense.

Always choose joy.

Anything less than an A+ would be stupid. "Oh we didn't finish a few games" "we didn't win in the tournament" that's ridiculous. We were the worst team in the ACC three years ago, maybe even just two years ago, and now we've earned a 9 seed in the tournament. A+ and nothing less.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016