OT: Game of Thrones Season 7 Finale and Beyond

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Ok...rewatching last night's episode. When Jorah refuses Long Claw, when he said "and your children's children" or something like that...was that a little jab, knowing Dany can't have kids?

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

I didn't think Jorah suspected anything between John and Dany

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There were several shots at Dragonstone where Jorah was looking back and forth between them. I think he definitely knows that there's something there.

stick it in, stick it in, stick it in!

He was probably thinking new Daario has dark hair and a beard. Jon Snow has dark hair and a beard. Crap, I ain't ever gonna hit dat.

Looks like you're onto something here

Loved the part where Tormund said he was so happy to be above the wall because it smelled like piss south. Then during the conversation JS mentioned they were in "the north". Anyway I'm not going to post much here as I already spoiled myself by reading the leaks.

Ahh I was planning to make a Season 7 Retrospective after this weekend. Honestly, this should have been created after we passed 500 comments. That other one takes forever to load.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Yeah I'm glad someone made a new thread. I stopped clicking on the old one like 350 comments ago.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Shoot the J..... shoot it!

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Proud Hokie since 2004.

Beyond season 7...potential bad news

season 8 delay

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I thought late 2018 or even 2019 was the plan all along for season 8. What irks me more is that GRRM might not have released Winds of Winter by the time the show finishes (whether that delay becomes intentional or not). My anticipation for the completion of the books is already starting to wane and that's really unfortunate.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Honestly, it's been so long since I finished the first 5 books that I'll either need to re-read them or read Wiki chapter summaries whenever the Winds of Winter does come out.

I've found solace in the idea that the two are now completely different stories. Since like season 5 or whatever, the show diverged SO far from the books that the two are barely related anymore. GRRM has even said they're two different stories now.

Also, the confirmed spin off has my hopes up. Maybe Aegon's conquest? Or something that incorporates the burning of Valyria?

Did anyone else find it interesting that the Night King was able to walk through dragon fire with seemingly no issue?

Eh, not too surprised, there was just no way they were going to let dragonfire obliterate them, that would be too easy. Especially with his rather lackadaisical spear throwing method of killing them. One of the two dragons could wipe out their whole crew before he killed both.

He walked through it pretty easily when he was hunting Bran.

I noticed that, too. I remember I heard a hissing sound when he walked through the fire (the same sound that Lightbringer made when put in snow...i.e. ice snuffing out fire) toward the dragon.

I thought that the curse of fire was snuffed out (pardon the pun) last season when the Night King touched Bran outside the cave where the three eyed raven was...but also was pretty sure that only applied to that cave. Maybe that magic is now no longer applicable beyond the wall.

So, let's get down to what's really important, who dies this week and how ?

I have a bad feeling that Tyrion's not gonna make it out of King's Landing.
and
I have a good feeling that Arya is finally going to kill Littlefinger

Everyone.

Not having a season 8 would be the surprise ending of all time ! What do you think the chances are ? :--)

If that's the case then this finale will be the greatest single episode of any show ever...so many loose ends to tie up in 90 minutes.

It's got me wondering if they might rename the dead dragon Viserion to Viagra and bring back dickon to ride him !

Fucking hilarious. Have a leg.

Oh no... I know what happens after this gif gets posted.

This?

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Anyone else catch when Longclaws eyes opened when Jon came out of the water?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

That's been debunked. Apparently the eye of the wolf is a crystal and the eye-opening mirage was merely a reflection of Jon getting out of the water.

I've been poking around and there's a "super fan theory" going around that would tie up three HUGE unresolved issues in the finale. I figure if you're really curious about it you should google....I'm not going to divulge it here for fear of spoiling the episode for people. However, it is just a theory so it may not happen...but if it does, prepare now-this is gonna be good!

Cleganebowl
Confirmed

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

We all know that's the real reason the Night King is marching south. He's got box seats to Cleganebowl.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

slight correction - the eyes of the wolf are a single piece of crystal. Kind of a cylinder or tube that connects the two "eye holes". What looks like the eye darkening / opening is the refracted image of Jon climbing out of the water
/nerd

The fact that all of the movie trailers and commercials you see on Rick and Morty are improvised never ceases to amaze me.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Can you give me more of a hint to google?

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Can you tell me where to find said theory

Recruit Prosim

damn son. That sounds legit..but I don't think they end the season like that.

Recruit Prosim

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

I may be the minority's but I try and get away don't want any spoilers at all

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Ugh, this is my biggest pet peeve with everyone this season. They're all complaining about teleporting. No one is teleporting, it's a nonlinear and non parallel story. Just because a scene happened after another doesn't mean it was directly after, at the same time, or even after it at all. They've jumped forwards and backwards in the story from scene to scene for 6 seasons. It's only a problem now because there are 3 major locations and maybe 1 or 2 minor locations everyone is at instead of 10.

(Jon, Davos), Sansa, Arya, Bran, Brienne, Littlefinger are at Winterfell.
Danny, Tyrion, Varys, and Mellisendre are in Dragonstone with Theon making his way.
(Jaime, Bronn), and Cersei are in King's Landing
Then Sam and Jorah were putzing around the citadel while Euron was sailing for god knows how long ravaging navies.

There's no where for any of the other major characters to be in order to split events over multiple episodes when everyone needs to wind up in the same place....

I don't care too much about off screen movements but the timeline for last week's episode was really, really sloppy.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Ugh, this is my biggest pet peeve with everyone this season. They're all complaining about teleporting. No one is teleporting, it's a nonlinear and non parallel story. Just because a scene happened after another doesn't mean it was directly after, at the same time, or even after it at all. They've jumped forwards and backwards in the story from scene to scene for 6 seasons. It's only a problem now because there are 3 major locations and maybe 1 or 2 minor locations everyone is at instead of 10.

100% agree - I hated seeing complaints about it, but episode 6 was just too much. The show runners need to make a better effort to convey this length of time between scenes. I'm not sure how you do this... ten 45-50 minute episodes instead of 7? More scenes/comments by characters discussing time? We know that episode 4 took place over 2ish weeks - In the start of episode 4, Cersei promised the Iron Bank that she would pay off her debts in a fort night (2 weeks). By the end of the episode, she had paid the debt - so we can presume that episode 4 was about two weeks of 'real' time. Why was there nothing like this in the most recent episode?

I think there's only one legitimate way to explain the 'time travel' in episode 6:

  • Jon Snow and his squad walked about 25/30 miles north of eastwatch (some distance similar to that of a marathon) in 1-3 days
  • When Gendry turned and started running, he was able to run this distance in a single afternoon (3-6 hours?). He gets back and sends raven to Dany. The raven takes about a week to get to Dragonstone.
  • During this week of air travel for the raven, Jon & company are stranded, with the white walker army attempting to starve them out. During this week, the ice freezes over.
  • Let's assume dragons can move at the speed of a plane (not sure if this valid, but let's go with it). Dany gets the raven, and takes off immediately, getting north of the wall in a few hours.
  • Coincidentally, The Hound throws the rock as Dany is in the air traveling. Jon & company battle for about 30 minutes before Dany arrives.

The show runners did a terrible job of stretching out this plot line - it felt like a single night. They should've had a scene or two where the suicide squad discussed how much food they had, how quickly it would run out. They could've even had a scene where the team was starving and had to eat Thoros's body (savage, I know, but would've helped convey the length of this entire escapade)

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I saw somewhere that it's supposed to be 2,000 miles between Eastwatch & Dragonstone - at least in terms of book distance. There's some hints that HBO Westeros is smaller, but lets roll with it.
assumptions:
2,000 miles between Eastwatch and Dragonstone
Ravens are fast and average 40mph (assumes some quick handoffs along the way, at places like Karhold, Widow's Watch, Longbow Hall, Gulltown,
Dragons are faster and average 60mph (assumes a cruising speed of 75mph with breaks - it would be possible to hang onto a dragon flying 75mph but very difficult to do that 24+ hours at a time)

So that gives us around 3 and a half days travel time for the flying legs. Give Gendry up to 12 hours and we're at 4 days. Seems like a long time for sure, when in the show they only give us one clear day/night cycle and don't have the characters commenting on how long its been or running low on food or anything like that.

Seems like we need to mix in a little bit of TV Westeros shrinkage (1200 miles) and perhaps being only 4-5 hour running distance from directly back to Eastwatch and we can cut this to 2 - 2.5 days. Note that we never saw them camp on their journey, so they may have come across the Walkers on Day 1 of their excursion.

Seems like we need to mix in a little bit of TV Westeros shrinkage

It was in the pool!

Not to mention that a brutally cold winter is moving further south to eventually cover the whole continent.

Just read the finale will be 79mins. Titled "The Dragon and the Wolf"...let's go.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

Jon Snow is definitely going to smash his aunt. Shits gonna get awkward.

So about 69 minutes of actual show.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Gotta have 10 minutes of commercials for Ballers and Insecure and whatever other HBO shows I'm not interested in.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Not a fan of the promos, but if you haven't checked out Ballers you're missing out. Its certainly not GoT, The Wire, or Sopranos, but if you just want something fun to watch its great. The characters are all pretty good and the Rock is great as always. Every episode has me laughing out loud at least once.

Naw, Ballers is alright. Fun fact, the first episode of Ballers that I ever watched featuring at least 3 scenes in strip clubs i was watching with my mom. Good times.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Hahahahaha! lmao!

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Rewatched episode 6 last night. Couldn't help but wonder how long they would have waited had The Hound not been chucking rocks?

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Not much longer...the dragons showed up like 2mins showtime (probably 7months real time) after he did that.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

My prediction: JRRM chucks a huge curveball and the white walkers win. All fan theories about marriage, lineage, etc. are moot because everyone's dead anyways. Fans are collectively pissed, but killing everyone's favorite characters is kinda JRRM's thing.

JRRM

so, if George R. R. Martin and J. R. R. Tolkein had a lovechild, would that be JRRM?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I think he meant to say Jorge R R Martin. Either way, I believe it's pronounced Kevin, so the correct acronym ought to be KRRM.

Jorge R R Martin is GRRM's non-union Mexican equivalent...like Senor Spielbergo to Steven Spielberg

Viva Mexico indeed.

Edit: As in the M & E in this GIF.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Ah. Boobs

Wait... this is TKP, shouldn't it be Ron Mexico? /ducks

Always give a leg for Ron Mexico jokes

Twitter me

40 min until go time.

Things I expect tonight:
- Arya figures out Littlefinger and he's done. I don't expect him to have a head by the end of the show
- Jon is going to bang out his Auntie. Weird
- Jamie realizes that Cersei is a crazy bitch and gets one step closer to killing her.
- Clegane Bowl! It's time.
- Night King finds a way over/through the wall. Probably leveraging zombie viserion.

Well done.

Damnit. I really wanted clegane bowl

They've been alluding to everything pretty obviously so I figured that had to happen. The Euron twist was prettt cool

Yes, they telegraphed a lot of it. But still, solid work putting the hints together.

We all know mayweather and Mcgregor was the undercard for CLEGANEBOWL

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Mother...of.....god

Have fun waiting for next season!

ugh...

Yep, that's about how I feel too.

Though they provided satisfaction on a surprising number of things. Littlefinger, R+L=J, J+D, they actually settled some theories and open questions. There are certainly enough open concerns to keep us hooked, but it does feel like we're getting close to denouement.

Well that episode was pretty damn awesome.

I can't be the only one who completely saw the trial twist coming. They played him like a damn fiddle. Perfect way for him to go out, on his knees begging and weeping.

Oh and R+L=J confirmed and explained!!! Soooooooooo much to take in!

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Not the only viewer. But we see a lot more than the characters in the show. Littlefinger was used to working people, but there's just something special about them Stark girls. Just ask Rhaegar.

I was concerned for a bit, right up until Sansa read the charges of murder and betrayal... that seemed really odd I realize Sansa and Littlefinger could have come up with a good story to sell the Lords on, but there was no event in Arya's history that would be a breaking point for Sansa to go after her like that.. just her sister being creepy and angsty. No actual betrayals of the Starks or the North. Then the other shoe dropped and I was like oh hell yes if anyone is guilty of those things its him!

Plus, all Sansa, or Arya, had to do was ask Bran if the other sister was full of shit or not

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Fuuuuck. That was wild. And where is Jaime going? Certainly north, right?

So...since there's at least a year to wait...The Young Pope is pretty good.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

Stranger things and narcos...soon!

Stranger Things will last me all of 2, maybe 3 days, lol.

Lucky for me, I just subscribed to HBO for this season of GOT. Now I've got all of their old series on On Demand. time to finally watch The Wire, Deadwood, Sapranos, etc.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I can't even.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Okay so jons not Jon he's actually eggon so doesn't he actually assume the throne before dany or is he still her aunt I'm all sorts of confused

THAT BEING SAID, holy dragons batman I just hope tormund ain't dead

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Aegon

yes, technically he is first in line of succession on Targaryen line before Dany. She is his aunt, not the other way around.

I take it from that last image of Tormund and Beric that they made it to the point of the wall that didn't actually fall. so they will need to find their way down somehow.

They will have to walk along top of wall to Castle Black.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Well there's 6 watch posts between castle black and EastWatch. They may be able to get down at one of those first.

Thought they were all empty and in disrepair?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

They are. I think technically East Watch was too. So maybe some stairs at one of them that could make do.

Eggon Targaryen - the true heir to the Iron Throne.

Tormund better still be alive dammit

Night King came in all

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Littlefinger died in the most satisfying way possible, Theon might have had the Reek beat out out of him, Jon and Dany finally hooked up, R + L = J explicitly confirmed, what more could you want.

I wish this season had better writing and pacing. It is what it is at this point with the showrunners wanting to wrap it up and GRRM not finishing the books but I feel pretty confident that this season wouldn't stand particularly well on its own and really got away from some of the best qualities of GoT. It was still worth watching and entertaining as a result of the quality and character building of the previous seasons.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Aiden Gillen actually made me sad for Littlefinger. That was an excellent performance. Also enjoyed the R+L=J with Jon and Dany bangy sex scenes. Will be a little awkward in the future but it's all good I guess. Also, are we supposed to just start calling him Aegon now? I can't be arsed with that.

That dragon is going to be a problem though, just a hunch. Hated how the night king was riding him. Like the neighborhood bully that stole your bike.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Also enjoyed the R+L=J with Jon and Dany bangy sex scenes. Will be a little awkward in the future but it's all good I guess.

I mean, back in S1E1 she was aware of the possibility that Viserious would put babies in her, so revelations about Jon shouldn't be too far of a bridge.

Did anyone else find it odd that they reveal R+L=J while he is unknowingly banging his aunt?
Also, what was up with Tyrion in that scene? It seemed like he knew what was going on and was disappointed.

I'm assuming that was to catch everyone up that hasn't been paying attention. My guess is right after Jon learns his true heritage, they reveal that Dany is preggers.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Watching Littlefinger get his comeuppance while groveling for forgiveness was satisfying.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

To be honest, I found it anti-climactic and not very satisfying. Not to mention his "trial" was hardly that. He denied and said he was entitled to his defense. And then he got his throat cut. There was a little suspense at the beginning of the scene as to whether the sisters were really at odds (but not much) and I thought the scene was poorly done. They didn't catch him in anything and the whole Arya-Sansa game seemed pointless if this was the conclusion.

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed watching him beg.

When he said that he as entitled to a defense, I wanted Arya to hand his dagger back to him and say "ok, defend yourself." Then she could go all out on him with Needle.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Oh, I agree. I also enjoyed watching him beg. But I thought how we'd get there would be done a little better.

It wasn't meant to be an actual trial though. It was an execution. A deadly trap set for the most conniving player in the game of thrones. Not sure what you mean by the didn't catch him anything, as they actually named all his major crimes against the Starks and the Vale, so they caught him in all those things.

The arya-sansa game per the previous thread showed that at least some people believed the tension, so it worked for many I assume.

The failing of the scene IMO was that sansa didn't say the "lone wolf" speech to him. That would have been more powerful.

An execution without a trial is murder though. I just think it was poorly done in light of the dramatic (and formal) trials we had seen in earlier seasons. Why set it up as a trial if you're simply "naming" his crimes and then slitting his throat.

Not to mention, I think Ned Stark would highly disapprove of the way this was done (although he would approve of Arya actually fulfilling the "sentence").

Tyrion went through a trial for a crime he didn't even commit and was sentenced to death. Ned was put on trial for telling the truth about something and was sentenced to death. There isn't much precedence for true Justice through an actual trial in Westeros.

Also, Ned Stark died because he was the type of guy who would highly disapprove of the way this was done. The Stark girls are smarter than he ever was

My point wasn't that about true justice but whether the scene makes sense/fits into workings of that universe/world. My point was that both Tyrion and Ned were put on prolonged, showy trials, with a sentence rendered. What happened in the finale was not a trial and putting on a show of it made no sense given that they simply cut his throat. They could have just done that in private. I'm also not arguing that killing Littlefinger wasn't smart.

I am probably being pedantic and weird but I just did not think that how we got to the satisfying moment of Littlefinger's throat being slit made sense or was well done.

Must have missed the trial Ned had for the deserter he executes in episode 1

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Ned Stark cuts a guys head off in the very first episode, sans trial. This was not murder, this was an execution. Different things. Everyone there had already tried him and he was guilty. They set the trap so that he had no chance to escape, which I am sure everyone is aware that he is quite good at.

Ever since her trip overseas, Arya hasn't been much on anything more than naming crimes and slitting throats ....and you're lucky if she bothers to name your crimes.

I also think this is a lesson that Sansa has learned directly from Littlefinger and was the point of her thanking him for all his teaching. If you wait to gather infallible information, like Ned with Jon Arryn's death, you'll end up dead before you can do anything with it.

"The one who passes the sentence should swing the sword."

Westerosi justice consists of pleading your case to the Lord/Lady to whom you owe allegiance, or ultimately the King or Queen. Littlefinger chose not to plead his case, rather trying to talk to Sansa privately or command Yohn Royce to escort him out. He chose to beg and reason why he murdered people rather than say that he didn't. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell and found him guilty. Bran is also a psychic tree wizard and gave Sansa all the evidence she needed. Done and done. It's a brutal world in Game of Thrones.

I would disagree to the extent that he said he denies it and is entitled to a defense.

His defense consisted of:

1. "I deny the charges."
2. "Well, yes I did it, but I had reasons."
3. "Can we talk alone so I can try to manipulate you?"
4. "Please don't kill me!"

I guess I was just ready to be done with Littlefinger but the burden of proof in GoT is way less than what it is in real life.

I took his begging, pleading, and last ditch justification as a confession and so did Sansa. Not much more evidence needed after that.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

"Trial" indeed. There's no need for a trial when your psychic brother describes to you everything that Littlefinger did to screw over your family and you yourself witnessed him murder your Aunt then lie about it. This was a straight up revenge killing not a trial. Sansa was only listing out those specific things so 1) Littlefinger would know that she knows before he dies and 2) so the various Lords in the room would also be aware (if they hadn't already been informed prior to the gathering)

Exactly.

Sansa watched Littlefinger kill her aunt. Ostensibly to protect her, but he killed her nonetheless. Sansa really did not require any additional evidence beyond that, as she is The Lady of Winterfell and her decision is law basically.

Spelling out the rest was really, as you said, just to let Littlefinger know that she had the truth about him pegged. For a man that prided himself on his subterfuge, it was basically one last insult before his throat got slit.

The North, The North, they don't F@$k around!

Can't blame Jon Snow for what he did to his aunt. I mean if my aunt looked like that and well you know....

Littlefinger getting the axe was awesome. So glad to see that happen.

Anything between the Hound and the huge dude? I can see that playing out somehow towards the end. Perhaps the Hound kills him or gets him against Sercie (or however you spell her name).

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Anything between the Hound and the huge dude?

You know they're brothers right?

It was a catch!

If I made a funny comment I probably stole it from Reddit.

Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) is the one that gave the burns to The Hound

https://youtu.be/W0D_qFIiqLQ (embedding is disabled on this video)

You could say there's something between them. The 'huge dude' is Gregor Clegane aka The Mountain that Rides aka Cersei's semi-dead champion. He's The Hound's aka Sandor Clegane's older brother. The guy who maimed Sandor when they were kids by shoving his face into the fire.

google "Cleganebowl" for a fan theory involving the two

Okay so time to ponder tyrions look as Jon and dany got it on, my friend is convinced it was an evil look I'm not worried though as he kept saying he wanted them together

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I don't think it's evil at all. Tyrion is concerned about the successor of Dany for the future of the realm. He also found out that his sister is pregnant, so I think he is making plans ahead just in case.

It's not an evil look. He's wary of how much Dany likes Jon, as he has seen how here impulsive side has played out before.

Once he learns Jon is the heir to the Iron Throne, he'll be all for it. Once he learns that Targaryens ignore the whole "unable to have kids" thing bc they're magic, he'll be even MORE for it. Once Jon and Dany hand the North to Sansa, while fostering an extremely strong alliance, he's gonna be EVEN MORE for it.

Until the white walkers get to Winterfell before they do and everyone there dies anyway.

So with the Aegon reveal, which technically didn't change anything other than his name because we already knew he would technically be the rightful heir as soon as we heard of R+L=J WITH the annulment and remarriage info as well. That said, they are presenting it as if it will somehow cause problems with Dany and Jon, but realistically it shouldn't because Jon likely won't care and if they marry that would fix any issue at all. That said, they would have to make Jon act pretty out of character to make it a problem, because even if Dany is upset to find out she isn't technically the proper heir, it's unlikely Jon will be like "Okay, now you bend the knee to me," because he simply doesn't care about that.

Agreed, this theory felt so much more important a few seasons back, but now that it's confirmed being the "rightful heir" doesn't seem to matter. Cersei certainly isn't a rightful heir but no one is stopping her. Not sure what the end game is here.

Something bothering me is that in the book, Young Griff is also named Aegon but is son to Rhaegar and Elia of Dorne...I don't see any reason the show would change Jon's true name to Aegon from some other Targaryen name that he would have in the book. It just seems odd that Lyanna would name him the same thing as her husband's ex wife's child. Any thoughts from other book readers? Is Young Griff really who we think he is?

Considering that Young Griff is not in the show at all, I don't think we can assume that there is another Targaryen out there also with the name Aegon.

In the show-verse, I think we can assume that the Mountain did in fact kill Elia and both of her children. To this point there hasn't been any proof that Aegon is in fact a Targaryen either.

yep, there's a lot of speculation amongst book readers that book Aegon / Young Griff is actually a Blackfyre descendant claiming to be Raegar and Ellia's son. (maybe even raised to believe he is their son) The Blackfyres are a branch of the Targaryen family who rebelled and were defeated/exiled back in the day. They went on to form the Golden Company mercenary army. In the books the Golden Company rallies behind "Aegon" and invades Westeros while Dany is still getting her sh*t together in Mereen.

Really interesting that the show is pulling in the Golden Company as an ally of the Lannisters rather than an opponent.

Considering they took the greyscale storyline out of Griff's commander's storyline as well as removing Griff entirely, it's safe to say that Jon Snow is the only Aegon Targaryen in existence in the TV universe.

In the book universe...we still don't know for sure who Jon Snow's parent(s) is/are.

Even in the show, Elia still had a son named Aegon, regardless of if he survived the sack of Kings Landing. Maybe Rhaegar just really wanted his successor to be Aegon and doubled up

I agree with all this, but I just wonder why not give Jon whatever name he would have in the book instead of the name of a different character? Even if both of Elia's children were killed, one was still named Aegon. It just seems weird to me.

Aegon was a pretty common Targaryen family name. Keep in mind Rhaegar believed pretty heavily in the "Prince that was Promised" prophecy (either that he was said Prince, or would father said prince)

Seems weird to us perhaps, but in the context of a medieval dynasty, not so much.

Fair enough. I forgot about Rhaegar's ties to that prophesy until reading through some articles to refresh my memory

This was (sort of) my question... Did Rhaegar give the same name (Aegon) to two different kids, (one, Jon Snow, the other, the child of Elia Martell who was killed by the Mountain), OR did The Mountain kill the wrong infant?

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Rhaegar had two kids with Elia, Aegon and I can't remember the girl's name. The Mountain killed both of those children when they sacked King's Landing. You might remember in the show Oberyn commanding him to admit to these murders during the trial by combat.

In the book, Varys and Ilyrio Mopatis are trying to get this Aegon (Young Griff) to take the throne of Westeros, he is supposedly swapped by Varys before he is killed by the mountain and raised away from Westeros. HOWEVER, even in the books there are hints that he is actually a Targaryen off-shoot line called Blackfyre and not the true heir to the throne. It's also heavily implied he is ultimately not important by not being included in the show at all. There are rumors GRRM let them know he ultimately wouldn't matter.

That said, in the show they are suggesting he named two of his children Aegon OR that Lyanna decided to name it Aegon without his consent (he was dead).

The Mountain killed both of those children when they sacked King's Landing

Yep, yep, so this was my question. Did the mountain actually kill Aegon, or did he think he killed Aegon, but actually didn't? Do we even know for sure, one way or the other?

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In the books, we don't know yet. The only one to suggest he didn't kill them is Young Griff, who is suspect because he's claiming to be the lost prince.

On the show, didn't Gregor admit to it just before killing pretty boy in the arena? Something like "I crushed their heads, like this."

Also, if Young Griff really was Aegon, it would matter. But the show has completely omitted Jon Connington and Young Griff, which kind of suggests that they don't matter.

two Aegons on the TV show..
1) Aegon, son of Raegar and Ellia was killed by the Mtn.
2) Aegon, son of Raegar and Lyanna = Jon Snow I guess we are to assume that Raegar really liked the name Aegon and would've named all his sons that...

In the books the number of Aegons less clear, but so far only one.
There's Aegon son of Raegar and Ellia was allegedly killed by the Mtn, (plus Aegon / Young Griff who claims to be Aegon, son of Raegar & Ellia, saying that a baby swap happened before the Lannisters/Cleganes arrived)

Jon Snow's given name hasn't been mentioned yet in the book series.

There's also Aegon the Conquerer who isn't on the show, but exists in the show universe. He was a pretty powerful dude, and I could see why people in his family line (or more appropriately for Targs, family circle) would want to give their kids his namesake

I'm pretty sure this would make Jon Aegon VI or maybe VII, the other kid being named Aegon makes this very confusing.

only kings get the numeral. If Jon becomes King of Westeros, he would become Aegon VI Targaryen. Until then he's just another Aegon Targaryen

Okay that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure because of him having an older brother (who would have been the heir above Jon) if that made him the VI and then they skip to VII to honor him (Idk how this works at all). But as I said, I assumed he would be VI if he became King.

yeah if you want to get into historical Aegons, there were a ton.. 5 that were King of Westeros at some point, at least a half-dozen others in the family that didn't make it to that level (including Aegon, son of Raegar and Ellia).. Aegon I "The Conqueror" Targaryen was the most noteworthy and definitely made the name cool.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_Targaryen

Rewatching last night's show...did I miss an explanation on how Grey Worm and the unsullied got out of Castleyrock?

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They weren't being held there. Euron just destroyed the ships and the Lannisters cleaned out the food supplies. Jamie expected them to leave eventually and then they could just walk back in.

Well, there were zero armies to stop them from marching across Westeros. The Lannister armies were all south taking Highgarden which meant they could march across unimpeded to wherever they wanted.

So where is Podrick and Gendry?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Pod's off drinking with Bronn and likely getting giggles from tavern wenches who have heard folklore of his magic weenie. Gendry is likely still catching his breath from his ultramarathon of last week's episode.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

The funny story about Podrick/Bronn... The real life actors of Bronn and Cersei used to date and had such a terrible break up that they can't share a scene without getting in a fight. Allegedly it's included in their contracts that they won't have a scene together. Anyways, this was (allegedly) the whole reason why Prodrick and Bronn left - the writers had to write in a way so Bronn and Cersei could avoid shooting a scene together.

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Yeah I've read that before...didn't even cross my mind when it happened, but yeah that's probably why.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

That's equal parts hilarious and pathetic

Podrick was with Brienne representing Sansa at the council in King's Landing.

I'm guessing Gendry traded in his oars for legs and is now going to be running for the next 2 years.

Most likely he was still at Eastwatch, so his fate is probably the same as Tormund & Beric... Unclear

Now I want Gendry to reach Winterfell and meet Bran so we get this scene

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

He was at the summit, but left out that side door and we didn't see him again.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I did enjoy this little moment between the Hound & Brienne bonding over their little murderchild.

their little murderchild.

For a second there I thought, "when the hell did they hook up?"

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.