OT: #TankTheRewind

For the past 11 months, YouTube has chronically screwed over content creators. It has demonetized videos and taken down channels for no reason. It has run ads on catastrophic events. It has allowed a child pornography (EDIT: Child endangerment, there are better articles on this than I have) ring to exist while much of the YouTube community was aware of it's existence for months
For this reason, people with many more subscribers than I have have started a coalition against YouTube. The goal is to get the YouTube Rewind the most dislikes ever
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There is a big difference between "child endangerment problem" and "child pornography ring". Can you elaborate? My understanding of the youtube child endangerment controversy is largely summed up here (link). Not that it invalidates the user response to Youtube, but just want to make sure we're clear on what has been going on

Chem PhD '16

You are probably right on this, I was a little foggy on the whole situation myself
either way, the YouTube community had been trying to call them out on it for months, and YouTube didn't even demonetize them or put them on restricted mode
Watch the first video for how YouTube allowed borderline pornography to be encouraged on the YouTube Kids site

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

It looks to me like these people want to make money using YouTube, but don't want to be subject to YouTube's rules, regs, and conditions.

YouTube is a free video hosting service. These people are ridiculous. If they don't like the way YouTube allows the content to be shared then start a website and host the content independent of YouTube.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

The hangup isn't just that YouTubers are having their videos demonetized, it's that some Youtubers are having their videos demonetized for not being advertiser friendly while some other channels run full compliments of ads over similar or 'worse' content. Ultimately YouTube does have the only say over what happens on their platform, but saying that creators should just take their content to another platform to make money doesn't jive when most YouTube alternatives don't have ads or are shutting down.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Or run ads on live-streams of the Las Vegas Shootings, but demonetize a video that promises it's whole ad revenue will be given to families of Las Vegas Shooting victims

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

BUT, most of these people have been making money on YouTube for 6+ years and have made a good living for themselves and have quit their jobs because of it. Now their entire channels have been demonetized for no reason.

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Re: YouTubers not following the rules. I'll bite on this.

Far and away my favorite YouTuber is The Mighty Jingles, a retired veteran from the Royal Navy who happens to be both a history buff and a gamer.

Jingles features replays and gameplay from various video game titles, most of which are typically war/combat related. Until fairly recently he focused heavily on the Wargaming titles World of Tanks and World of Warships but also includes gameplay from games such as War Thunder, Armoured Warfare, Cold Waters, Ghost Recon, and a host of others. His channel, when I looked this morning, has over 581,000 subscribers (a healthy number though far surpassed by many other YouTubers).

As with most videos, his vids typically receive the bulk of their views within the first 24 hours after they are posted. Recently, his videos have been getting flagged within hours by YouTube's new automated system which seeks to keep inappropriate content off of YouTube (read: content that YouTube thinks advertisers may not necessarily like). There is an appeal process for this, wherein you notify YouTube that you think your video has been unjustly demonitized and they send an actual human being to look at the content and decide one way or another, hopefully remonitizing your content so that you can earn money again. The problem with that is that the process typically takes 2-3 days, sometimes longer, by which point most people that are going to watch the video already have *meaning* that you've lost out on all that potential revenue and have, essentially, created your content for free.

Now, at face value, this system makes sense. There's a lot of questionable content out there, no doubt, a lot of which no advertiser in their right mind would want their name associated with. But the current system overdoes it, badly. We're talking about a channel here that features *video game replays* for crying out loud. If you've stumbled on one of his videos, chances are you were looking for content related to a particular game, probably either World of Tanks or World of Warships.

And that's the problem. People are making the same content that they've always made, following the same rules that they've always followed, and YouTube has now decided that it's not enough and they are subject to some completely random, heavy-handed autonomous system that shoots first and asks questions later. And when it shoots, it fires what is the equivalent of a thermonuclear warhead for anyone that uses YouTube to bring in any sort of revenue.

Here watch this:

This is a video where Jingles talks about the problem as he sees it (which I'll admit is a hefty bias) and it also shows the content that is typical of his channel in the background.

As for:

If they don't like the way YouTube allows the content to be shared then start a website and host the content independent of YouTube.

This is such a terrible argument that I'm not going to engage with it other than to say that it's a terrible argument. Because it is.

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

Since I don't want to commit to a 36 minute video, can you point out the segment with the relevant discussion? Or is the whole video about this topic?

I've learned a lot about YouTube today.

I'd go with the first 10 minutes or so. After that, he goes into multiple different ways that he's thinking of compensating for the loss of YouTube revenue so it's not necessarily pertinent.

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

That's a pretty good (and rational) explanation of the recent demonetization controversy.

When he gets to the part where he discusses the finances, though, it seems to me that part of the reason YouTube pays less now is because competition drives down prices. It was probably a lot easier to make money on YouTube just a few years ago.

As someone who is reasonably involved in communities where YouTube and Twitch are very important, my understanding is that the value of online ads through these big companies has actually dramatically increased over the past few years because targeted advertising has gotten so much better. Whether YouTube has adjusted its payments towards creators to reflect that, I'm not sure.

There's also a bunch of gun review channels being demonetized and flagged for inappropriateness for absolutely no reason.

Image result for caught in a landslide no escape from reality gif

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous! With treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid...

Image result for mama just killed a man meme

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

I swear I'm reading this thread on my phone at work and this song just started playing on my coworkers radio. Whaaaaat...

Ain't no way that trooper killed a man with a gun..... just sayin

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

With a blaster, maybe not. Bullets are much faster than blaster fire.

STORMTROOPER AIN'T SHOT NOBODY PAWWWWWWWL

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

He pulled his trigger, now the other guy's dead.

Correlation does not equal causation.

I have to confess, this is a part of the economy I don't understand.

Though the idea of "de-monetizing" a video that doesn't support the business of the site that hosts it sounds a lot like how capitalism generally works.

It does seem interesting that social consciousness these days is making a video and getting paid when someone clicks on it. Is this what people do for a living? Interesting.

It does seem interesting that social consciousness these days is making a video and getting paid when someone clicks on it. Is this what people do for a living? Interesting.

A bunch of three letter companies have been doing something similar for 70 years.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Those three letter companies owned their networks.

I guess that's one difference.

They also produced their own content. YouTube asks others to make their content for them and then stiffs them.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

YouTube provides a platform that comes with some rules.

Yes, sounds a lot like those other networks (or any other place of business) to me.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's fair, but most businesses aren't, really.

Agreed. The controversy is that YouTube has selective rule enforcement.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I certainly am not an expert, but none of this seems like capitalism

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

It is certainly capitalism. Youtube is acting in what they believe is their own best interest as a company. It's no leap to think that most of youtube's demographic is young people and most young people are liberal therefore youtube will support liberal viewpoints to pander to their demographic. They have no legal obligation to not demonetize certain videos or channels. These people are using their free service and essentially by YouTube's grace, make possibly a lot of money. If they think that they are so important to Youtube, they should get a contract put in place.

If I let someone stay in my home and make money mowing my lawn, I should be able to revoke that decision at any time. They aren't perpetually entitled to money if I don't like how my grass looks and I should be able to evict them if they become a nuisance.

Recruit Prosim

but none of this seems like capitalism

Perhaps you meant "American" or "within the spirit of the Constitution."

Pure capitalism would invoke any individual can sell anything to anyone and in any way. Historically, the institution of capitalism was used as crux to allow white hotel and restaurant owners to prevent any non-white individual from staying or eating on their premises (See, Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States). In modern times, individuals are arguing the liberties of capitalism and religion prevent owners of bakeries to sell cakes for a same-sex wedding (Decision by SCOTUS coming soon: CNN) (Note: the current case is utilizing the freedom of religion as the primary argument, but further invoking right of capitalism to sell to an individual based on their religious beliefs. There are also arguments for artistic freedom, but those seem a little but further of a stretch.)

I agree, YouTube's rules may be in contradiction with some Constitutional ideas, but not capitalism.

🦃 🦃 🦃

What are you suggesting is unconstitutional?

Failing to associate advertising with content where the advertiser doesn't want an association?

Freedom is at the opposite end of the spectrum from government control. Capitalism is the ultimate form of freedom: allowing the marketplace to decide.

The Constitution is somewhere in the middle: an attempt at codifying freedoms so that one person's freedom doesn't infringe on someone else's. I'm not seeing the applicability here.

Nothing per se. Some policies are in contrast to Constitutional ideas (granted, YouTube is a private entity). For instance, preventing LGBT individuals from posting their stories is a discrimination against a sexual orientation. That's firmly in contrast to one constitutional idea of discrimination against a marginalized group. If it was platform ran by a State, it would likely be found unconstitutional.

Golf course membership clubs (or any private club) are legally able (i.e., constitutionally able) to discriminate against women and/or race. However, because it's viewed as contradictory to US's principles as dictated in the Constitution, most golf course membership clubs received great backlash and ended up reversing their policies.

🦃 🦃 🦃

For instance, preventing LGBT individuals from posting their stories is a discrimination against a sexual orientation.

Did I miss something about this? Image is taken from this, linked in the tweet above. The tweet itself makes it sound like those things aren't protected, but in the broader context it is clear that they definitely are?

Chem PhD '16

The problem is that the way YouTube has it set up, once users flag something as Sensitive (or once enough people flag it as such), the video effectively gets pulled and the onus is on the content creator to explain their case and get it back up. Some agenda driven groups have leveraged this limitation to effectively silence certain viewpoints on YT. Its not what YT intends to have happen, but an unfortunate consequence of the policies they have in place.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Is that the result of YouTube policies, or people misusing tools designed to protect audiences?

I can see that type of thing being used by either extreme of the political spectrum to silence or inconvenience the other.

The trouble is, I don't know how you'd address that problem other than the method they're currently using.

Both. This whole topic is way too much into the political zone, so I will try to be careful. There is plenty of well documented and coherent discussions that provides overwhelming support that both are an issue, for anyone that cares to look. A lot of hard evidence without having to rely on conjecture.

As a private company, of course they are free of government limitations of freedom of speech, but that does not justify intentionally enforcing rules differently based on the individual. As a non-political example; well known brands are permitted to report on current events on monitized videos, but other are not permitted to even present the same topics, without commentary, without being flagged as a violation. And this doesn't even touch on the both negligent auto and targeted targeted manual denial of revenue.

I tried to keep this neutral of any leanings and just answer the legitimate question.

It got so bad that people who were streaming videos of them playing games on their site specifically dedicated to that (YouTube Gaming) were having videos pulled because record companies were flagging all the in-game and background music for copyright infringement. And every time that kind of flag goes up, YT automatically takes down a video without first checking to see if its a valid complaint, so its allowed these major media giants to effectively control what is out there and who gets silenced.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

True, but while annoying and based on a loophole in the DMCA, at least it I objective. I wrote a block of text out and decided again, this was difficult to discuss without crossing into territory better sutied in other forums. So instead I'll say the subjective nature of the "rules" and the "one rule for me one for thee" enforcement has severely impacted the livelihood of thousands.

A competitor might and probably should arise, but that doesn't mean people are not being cheated of compensation as it stands now.

People are awfully quick to accuse others of not adhering to the Constitution. The Constitution didn't guarantee anyone that the media would approve of or support their lifestyle choices or political views, or even give them a platform on which to present their views.

Most companies are by and large supportive of people's lifestyle choices. I would think YouTube is particularly supportive. They may not, however, support graphic depictions of it or profanity. They also may want to age-restrict some topics. The details are pretty important and relevant.

We have more opportunity than any civilization or generation has ever had. It has only made us want more, and sometimes less appreciative of the opportunities we have.

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

OT

Year 3 is coming up!


Forums: Off Topic

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Tank There Wind?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Does a rose by any other name smell as sweet?

If you want a video that is 1/10th as long with no annoying VO.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I tried to get through the first one, but it was beyond my abilities.

A 21+ minute video telling you to avoid a 5 minute promotional video?

YouTube is Run by a bunch of idiots I don't see anything changing soon

I feed off of nightmares

What's the competition?

They must have done something right.

There's not any competition

I feed off of nightmares

Exactly.

Vimeo is probably the only "competitor", but definitely doesn't have the breadth of community that youtube does.

Edit: I totally forgot about dailymotion, too. and never heard of most of these other ones because they primarily serve foreign markets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_hosting_services

Chem PhD '16

Vimeo

Recruit Prosim

Also off topic: Read this as #HanktheRewind and thought it would be about Beamer's dog's adventures in 2017 :(

Would make a great YouTube channel.

monetize it!

Chem PhD '16

I cannot comment on this without going political, other than to say that people who make this their livelihood should get compensated. That is all

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

My understanding of this whole issue is that content creators don't know what causes their videos to get demonetized. The problem isn't that YouTube is selecting content that they view as best for their business, but that they aren't being clear with the content creators on what their guidelines are.

Essentially, with a few tweaks.

The "flagged" videos which are demonetized are being reviewed by machine learning. There really isn't any central figure doing this soa few times, videos have been flagged before they even upload. One of my favorites, Door Monster, who largely does video gaming skits, has had every video demonetized as soon as it goes up.

With 160k subscribers, if their video launches while demonetized, they lose everything as subscribers typically watch within the first 2 to 3 days of a video's initial post. There is a review process but that can take weeks. Many youtubers have turned to patreon, a kind of monthly subscription service, to survive. They then need to make more perks or content to incentivize their patreons because they aren't receiving money from a steady source.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

OK, I'll admit that after watching portions of the videos posted here, I didn't really understand the issue.

For me, this article explains the issue better than the videos did.

Bloomsberg article explaining this

Like Fakebook and Twitter, Youtube was compromised many moons ago. Anything that gets that big eventually gets compromised. Besides the greed and shady business practices, it's the outright censorship of anything not deemed as "state-approved" that will end these platforms. From demonetizing, deleting vids, deleting channels, and phantom unsubscribing for not toeing company line, Youtubers are pissed and there will eventually be a mass exodus away from Youtube once a viable alternative has been established. It's not about fixing Youtube. There's no fixing it. It's about walking away at this point and building something better. YT has a foot in the grave already. Watching its downfall will be fun and something better will emerge.

The guy in the tweet wants to start a movement against Youtube for being incompetent but can't properly spell incompetence...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

-America 2017

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

I'd have chosen a different YouTuber to lead the charge on this, for sure.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Speaking of YouTube, I hope Google and Amazon can resolve their beef. As a cord-cutter with a Fire TV, YouTube has been my go-to place to kill 15 min or so. Starting January 1 the YouTube app is going away due to Amazon not supporting Google's products. Very annoying...

I just need Google to buy Amazon already and make my life thousands of times more convenient.

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous! With treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid...

Does Alphabet own any of Amazon or vise virsa?

Nah. Amazon is light years ahead of Google for cloud services. Amazon is really, really good. And now Bezos is the richest man on the planet! Amazon doesn't even sell Google products...

Yes. That is because of major feuding. And the same reason you will not be able to stream YouTube on a fire stick soon.

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous! With treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid...

I don't blame Google for eliminating streaming for YT on the Fire Stick after Amazon has prevented Prime Video from streaming on Chromecast from the start.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Agreed. I do not have a fire stick and am forced to watch grand tour through my XBOX which is just a pain.

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous! With treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid...

Eh who cares. I have a Chromecast, too. Works with an android phone or the chromebook. No obstacles here.

Did Lawson transfer?

Let's Go

HOKIES

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Irony: Protesting Youtube by posting a video on Youtube

What exactly is this meant to accomplish? oooh, dislikes. Nobody cares.

Youtube is a private company that sets their own rules that posters profit from. 300 hours are uploaded to Youtube every minute. Of course they use automated rules, and logically I can imagine those can at times be heavy handed due to the volume they handle. Instead of creating rambling videos of how unfair it is why not spend that time to develop a set of automated rules that makes sense.

Don't come up in here making all that sense...