OT: Star Wars 8 Thread DANGER, SPOILERS!!!

Snoke is dead, Captain Phasma is dead, Rey's parents probably are insignificant, Leia doesn't die, crazy troll Yoda ghost shows up and is awesome, and Luke seriously thought about murdering Ben Solo but is a total badass and also pretty much guaranteed to be a jedi ghost now too.

Hope you didn't end up here accidentally, because I needed to let that all out somewhere.

I think I liked the movie overall. They found a good balance between referencing the old movies while also telling a new story. Mark Hamill was by far the best part of the film. I particularly like how they set him up to be a Yoda like figure only to have Yoda show up and fuck with him. I also liked that they finally had Luke struggle with the dark side of the force. As much as I like the original triology it never seemed like Luke was in much danger of turning to the dark side, he never seemed willing to compromise his companions in such a wat. The Luke story arc also makes the Kylo Ren storyline more interesting, and set up Luke's "Last Stand" sequence very well.

The Snoke scene was also very satisfying even if Kylo Ren killing him was very predictable in the moment. Kylo Ren's character is really interesting to follow which does make Rey's character feel a bit lacking. At this point there really isn't much to her besides that she's a Jedi and has to do Jedi things to keep the plot moving. She really is trying to find her place, but I think I like that. I also like that, at least for the moment she's not a Skywalker. Theoretically Ep 9 should be the end of the Skywalker saga.

There were definitely some things that really bothered me too. The whole thing with the Rebel ships just being out of range for as long as it was didn't sit well with me for a number of reasons. First of all, you're in space. Once a ship reaches cruising speed it shouldn't have to use any more fuel. Secondly, what was stopping the empire from using a short burst of light speed to jump ahead of the Rebels? Mostly though, why didn't they use the fighters/bombers, that were clearly very effective earlier, to take out the Rebels?

Why can't droids pilot ships that are going to explode? I definitely wanted General Purple Hair's character to interact more with Poe in the future.

Some characters felt negelected. What was Chewbacca's purpose? How are you going to kill my boi Admiral Ackbar like it's NBD. R2 maybe moved 5ft the whole film and may or may not be too depressed to do anything still since Luke isn't living now. Captain Phasma really got the Boba Fett treatment.

The Casino planet felt like it came right out of the prequels. The Codebreaker character could definitely be interesting and the conversation on the ship really felt like forshaddowing.

I know I can be overly critical, and I think I did like the movie, but we may be in an age of Star Wars movies that are satisfying to watch, but fall apart a bit under a microscope. Although, maybe the same statement can be made about the Original Trilogy too.

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My man, a spoiler thread on the day of the movies release is a ballsy move..

Which is precisely why it's labled. I know I'm not the only TKPer to have whatched it by now and I really didn't want to say anything that wasn't spoiler free other than "just go watch it".

"Hokie religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo

Honestly...I didn't think the movie was that great. The more I think about it and as the initial visual euphoria of a Star Wars movie wears off, the more problems I see with it. As a stand alone movie I would rate it as good but it doesn't really feel Star Wars-y to me. Something is missing. I know people like to rag on Lucas (especially the prequels) for various reasons, but he always had a central focus. This movie (along with TFA) seem to be lacking that. TLJ has just as many plot holes and questions as TFA if not more and people slammed TFA for it. I also thought several characters are still severely underdeveloped and there's a lot of missed opportunities, Snoke being the first among them (he feels like a giant waste of time to me). And there has GOT to be more to Rey than just being a rando with drunk parents. The entire SW saga has the Skywalker family as its central arc and this movie is pulling away from that in many different directions. I'm not sure I like that decision.

I guess in many ways the sequels had the impossible task of trying to match essentially 30 years of fan based fantasies of what happened. But even still, I was expecting something...more? Different? I don't know. I can't put it into words. It just feels off. Overall, its still a good movie but its not better than the originals or on par with them. I don't even think its as good as Rogue One.

I was hoping for MUCH more from Snoke. I mean, who is he? Where was he during episodes IV - VI? He keeps mentioning Darth Vader, but did he actually know Vader or was he just a fanboy? The only thing I know about Snoke is that he's a deformed guy that can use the force. I was really hoping his story would tie in with the previous installments, but that was not the case.

Exactly. He's tremendously underdeveloped. The cynic in me says he was just inserted so they could sell more non-movie canon merch like books and comics that fill in the details. This is Disney afterall. He was introduced in TFA with so much mystery and they seemed to emphasize importance to him yet they do nothing with it. People can hate the prequels all they want but even they filled in characters better than this.

Get ready for a prequal. Snoke: The Early Years. Disney will wring out every dollar they can.

The Dude Abides

Bud, my feelings exactly. It felt off, didn't live up to the hype, IMO. I enjoyed the film, but falls somewhere in the middle for me.

If it ain't orange, it better be maroon...and if it ain't maroon, it better be soon!

Maybe I'm still in a recency bias, but I seriously think that it is my favorite Star Wars movie. Now, I know that there were issues, but it really branched off from TFA and was not strictly predictable and fan service-y. My only real issue revolves around Finn. His entire storyline was pointless. His success or failure would not have made any difference.

Finn might be my biggest issue with the movie even more than Snoke. I liked him a lot in TFA but he was such a waste this time around. It's like they were sitting in the writer's room and said "Oh shit! We forgot about Finn! Um...we need something for him to do". And I didn't care for Rose at all. It felt like adding a character for the sake of adding a character.

It also doesn't help that the movie is really long and his part is a significant drag bogging down the middle of the movie. I wish I knew that beforehand so I could have taken a pee break. Good thing I'm still a young man with bladder control but man, I was hurting the last 20 minutes or so.

I agree the Rose character had no business being there, except to try to make up for a hint of a Finn-Poe relationship in TFA.

Secondly, Admiral Holdo could've saved hundreds of more lives if she did her maneuver as soon as she saw the transports come under attack.

Third, could Rey see the caretakers before she shot?

Fourth, never trust Benecio Del Toro, that's like, film rule #15

Fifth, the two best lines in the series are delivered in this movie. 1.)I've seen your daily routine and you are NOT busy. 2.) Do you think you got him?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

3. Oh yeah? You feel that? Oh, wow! The Force must be really strong with you! ::SMACK::

4. Read them have you? Page turners they were not.

Virginia Tech would walk right up to you and punch you in the neck. They're just tougher. Cowherd 3:16

As far as Finn's storyline, I'm thinking Del Toro must play a large role in episode 9. There's no other explanation for such a worthless use of time, not to mention an actor of Del Toro's stature. They must have felt it was necessary to introduce the character in this episode and then worked to find a way to do it. My biggest issue with the entire sequence is that unless I missed something, Del Toro gives away the escape plan of the rebels. But how did he know about it? Did I miss where someone told Finn who could then tell Del Toro who could sell it away?

I don't recall clearly, but does Poe mention it to Finn over their comms while BDT is present?

Chem PhD '16

"Hey Benicio, you want to be in Star Wars"

" I gotta wrap this Heineken commercial and finish some reshoots on Secario 2, but after that I'm all yours"

The Dude Abides

Maybe I'm still in a recency bias, but I seriously think that it is my favorite Star Wars movie. Now, I know that there were issues, but it really branched off from TFA and was not strictly predictable and fan service-y.

+1. Walked out of the theater a few hours ago. I really enjoyed it. My two complaints are Leah somehow surviving space and Yoda just appearing at the all-too-perfect moment. These scenes just felt forced.

For the most part, I really, really enjoyed it.

Twitter me

These scenes just felt forced.

I'm a little upset this has been sitting here for a week and no TKPer has capitalized on it.

95% of what I say is sarcastic. The other 5% is usually taken out of context.

I felt like this movie was titled wrong. Shoulda been called "Infinite Escape" or something. Damn resistance just ran time after time and I felt like they coulda cut half of it out, we get it they're undermanned and outta fuel, just get to the point.

Agree with the lack of character dev on Snoke, Rey, etc. I'd rank this one below Eps 4-7.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

So, my biggest qualm with the movie is, there were too many parts where I felt like a couple ideas were being crammed down my throat:

1) Out with the old, in with the new. Let go of the past.
2) There's good and bad in everything, even the good got there by doing bad things.

It's probably the first Star Wars movie where I FELT I was being propagandized.

The Good:
Snoke's throne room fight was masterful.
Light speed Pinball maneuver by General Purple Hair
The cinematography was excellent!
Troll Yoda
Adam Driver/Mark Hamill are awesome
The humor

The Bad:
Space cow titties?
Leia and her Mary Poppins moment
The casino scenes just felt unnecessary
Some ill-timed use of the humor that takes you out of the tension.
The pacing of the movie was very sporadic.
Who the hell is Snoke? Where did he come from? How did he create the First Order? We'll never know

The Best:
Porgs. PORGS!
Luke trolling Kylo Ren from across the Galaxy.

Overall for me: 8/10

It was a catch!

If I made a funny comment I probably stole it from Reddit.

How are you going to kill my boi Admiral Ackbar like it's NBD.

Unfortunately his voice actor passed away right after TFA came out.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

No excuse if they had CGI in place for leia you cant tell me they couldnt have found a way to play his voice with all these autotune using singers these days they couldve given Ackbar a worthy death not just a nah oh well he wasnt an important guy at all

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

paging wilhuff tarkin

Chem PhD '16

They didn't have to CGI Leia this time around.... she'd finished shooting before she died. But she'll have to be CGI'd in episode IX, unless the scroll reads, "Leia ain't make it.... so Po is running the Resistance now."

Virginia Tech would walk right up to you and punch you in the neck. They're just tougher. Cowherd 3:16

Poor humor timing, Who's the legit bad guy for the rest of this trilogy? (Kylo is a Teenage brat driven by temper), When will we get a full character development? (besides the original characters). Finn is no Han. That is all!

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

I've got a theory that Kylo Ren is still the bad ass villain. With the exception of maybe the face off with Luke, I get the impression his crybaby / teenage brat / conflicted behavior is part of his skill set of master manipulator. You see it killing Han, and then the double (triple?) con in the throne room.


-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

Saw it last night and the more I think about it, the more I liked it.

I agree with you about the ships staying just out of range part, it didn't make sense to me. Also the whole side mission with Finn and that girl going to find a code breaker at the casino, was essentially pointless considering that Bencio de Toro turns on them almost immediately. That whole part I could've done without. Also, it was a little too heavy as far as forcing humor...Chewbacca and those penguin things, and Rey getting a lightsaber bounced off her head when she tries to force grab from Snoke come to mind.

But Luke Skywalker went out like a fucking boss! We got to see Luke and Leia together one more time, and his whole end sequence with Kylo I thought was amazing and it was as about a worthy death a character that is beloved as Luke could get...I mean seriously did you really want Kylo Ren to take out LUKE SKYWALKER?!?! No...Luke outsmarted the kid, bought time for the REBELLION to escape, and transformed into the force. I loved it. Clearly he'll be guiding Rey as a Force ghost in the next one.

Also the whole side mission with Finn and that girl going to find a code breaker at the casino, was essentially pointless considering that Bencio de Toro turns on them almost immediately.

So, is this plot line that different from Han Solo/Lando in cloud city?

Twitter me

I thought it was a really good movie, solid 8/10 at least.

I know it's rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, but I love the fact that Finn and Poe's super crazy hero plan failed, it shows that the rebellion/resistance doesnt always win these unlikely victories, though the whole casino world felt really sloppy and unnecessary.

There are undoubtly some questionable plot decisions with how they chose to keep the rebel fleet in panic mode, really wish they had done something like the fleet making jump after jump and just managing to stay ahead of the first order.

My biggest concern at this point is that it doesn't feel like it will be possible to resolve this story line in one more movie

Sorry if this is a bit rambling and incoherent, just finished a 14 hour drive and I'm not at 100% capacity

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

Finn & Poe's failed plan came not too long after Luke and Yoda talked about how failure was a huge and most important teaching lesson.

They said multiple times they had only enough fuel for one jump so they couldn't just do jump after jump.

Yeah but they easily could have done the same thing with multiple times and just said(oh we only have enough fuel for x number of jumps, it would have closed some loopholes with the resistance "fleet" managing to stay just out of range of the FO fleet.

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

There are undoubtly some questionable plot decisions with how they chose to keep the rebel fleet in panic mode, really wish they had done something like the fleet making jump after jump and just managing to stay ahead of the first order.

Battlestar Galactica already did it

- Caretakers
- Puffin things
- Milking the creatures into the nalgene for a swig (maybe it shows that Luke is certifiably hermit-crazy)
- Casino Royale meets Star Wars
- Leia as Supergirl
- Kylo tantrum #2
- Full up Hoth trench warfare
- Needless nod to 3D theaters with the Falcon flying through the red crystal caverns
- Too much winking at itself humor
- Romance with Rose...not convincing and out of nowhere
- Maz Kanata in a fight? Weird.

- Good explanation of the Force
- Luke finally seen to have struggled with the Dark Side
- Yoda
- Suicide mission and the space silence
- Kylo tantrum #1
- Mature handling of deaths (in that each one matters)
- Luke and Poe's humor, mostly
- The final scene

Saw a review which said it was a movie made of moments, but that these moments are woven together in a disjointed way. I agree. I'm fine with Disney making $, but adding elements that appear solely to market toys annoys me. I think there was about 30-45 min of unnecessary movie there.

I might give it a 6.5-7.0 out of 10. Nowhere near the critical hype machine, but pretty good.

Romance with Rose...not convincing and out of nowhere

Damn, I'm glad you remembered her name, thought it was Pam...haha!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

- Puffin things

Funny you say that because that is exactly what they were.

From: Designing Star Wars: The Last Jedi, Part 1: How Porgs Were Hatched

From what I gathered, Rian [Johnson] had gone to shoot this sequence on Skellig Michael, which is the real island location that stands in for Ahch-To, and that island is covered in puffins. It's a wildlife preserve and everywhere you look there are hundreds of birds dotted around the landscape. From what I gathered, Rian, in a positive spin on this, was looking at how can he work with this. You can't remove them. You physically can't get rid of them. And digitally removing them is an issue and a lot of work, so let's just roll with it, play with it. And so I think he thought, "Well, that's great, let's have our own indigenous species." We'd already started work on the Caretakers, which again was a brief from Rian. We'd just been told "puffin people." Yeah, there was going to be this race of people and puffins again were a source of inspiration for Rian. The puffins were sort of a big influence on everything, really.

My disappointment in the movie is low. I thought it was really good but it is not the direction I was hoping for. I thought Snoke was going to give us a huge connection to the Old Republic timeline. Instead it looks like he was just some nobody. That coupled with all the ancient Jedi texts that Luke had, I figured would all tie in together. I also wanted more info on the rest Kyber Crystal Luke had with him.

So overall I am fine with what they did, but I wanted them to open a door to more stories about the ancient republic and the origin of the Jedi and sith.

I saw it the other night and the more I think about it the more I love the good parts and the more I HATE the bad parts.

Everything with Rey, Kylo, and Luke was great and if the entire movie had followed those three characters alone it might have been the best Star Wars of all time.

Everything with everybody else was really, really lame. Like prequel-level awful. It really sucks that all of the supporting characters detracted from a spectacular main storyline, especially because I thought most of those characters were awesome in The Force Awakens. But it really did feel like every time the story was away from Rey/Luke/Kylo that it was just wasting time. Almost felt like they wrote out the Jedi storyline and then at the last minute realized "Wait, we have to do something with all these other characters."

I thought the talk between Luke and Rey by the pool was pretty well done. She's begging him to come back and he's explaining that he's just a flawed person that has been romanticized and deified. It reminded me that seeing Episodes 4-6 when they came out and reading what has now been tossed out in the EU didn't directly apply to 7-9. (Even if Kylo is based on Jacen and Rey is based on Jaina, regardless of what Disney says.)

Trying to make Finn the next Han isn't working. Han was the smuggler with the heart of gold. Finn is the guy who runs and stumbles into heroic situations.

I LOLed when Leia shot Po with the stunner. And when Rey got hit in the head by the lightsaber. And when ghost Yoda basically called Luke a dumbass after all these years.

There are issues with the story, but that seems to be Disney's MO recently. It's like the Avenger movies. Too many main characters, not enough development time. If they stuck with the formula of three hero main characters with intertwined storylines and one heel main character, it would work better. But they are trying to give send offs to the old while introducing multiple new heroes and heels. It makes the new movies feel disjointed.

I liked it better than TFA simply because it didn't feel like a direct ripoff of ESB or RTJ. And the ending for Luke brought it full circle.

I thought the talk between Luke and Rey by the pool was pretty well done. She's begging him to come back and he's explaining that he's just a flawed person that has been romanticized and deified.

I have not yet read a plausible explanation of the three lessons. If this explanation is correct, it explains why the "caretakers" were inserted, but it means the writers had even less of a grip than I thought.

Walking out, I was reminded of a great plot device used by Douglas Adams in "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency." A character poses two questions, and says, "the answers to the three questions were, I knew immediately, yes, no, and maybe," and you don't really notice that there were only two questions but three answers. The third question is revealed near the end of the story to great effect.

I was hoping Luke's third lesson was something like that, something you would understand after several viewings. I also thought it might be revealed in the last episode, which is now the best I can hope for, because if they just leave that hanging, with the third lesson lost in a deleted scene, it might be the weakest aspect of the movie.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Sorry for joining the party late, but I finally got to see the movie yesterday.

Trying to make Finn the next Han isn't working.

I got the feeling that Del Toro's character (his name escapes me at the moment) is being set up to be the next Han. He's a completely self-interested character, with a sketchy past and connections to the seedier elements of the galaxy. The only thing missing is the transition from chaotic-neutral to chaotic good on the Alignment scale, which I figure will probably happen in the next movie. I just can't see them casting such a high-profile actor for such a relatively small role, unless there are plans to expand his character's importance in future sequels.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Overall, I was fine with everything they did in this movie. I could see the fanboys being upset with how Luke went out or how Leia saved herself from space, but it progressed the story in a way that felt like star wars to me. The opening sequence where they took down the dreadnaught was bad. Ass. The scene where Rey and Kylo had to fight together was awesome. The chase of the Falcon through the dredges of Crait was classic Star Wars. I loved the nod to the EU with Luke projecting himself in his fight with Kylo. MOTHERF***ING YODA!!

This movie was better than TFA, but not as good as rogue one, but I'm damn excited about where things are headed. The last scene with the kid holding a broom like a lightsaber gave me chills.

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

I had a problem with Kylo and Ren killing all those Snoke underlings. Killin people in rage throughout the series makes you more darkside then anything else.


Killing for the sake of killing, yes, I agree. Many times in the movies, Jedi have used deadly force when attacked or to save someone/themselves.

Am I missing something. Which underlings are you asking about, the praetorian guards?

Yes the guards.


Idk if I'd say Rey did it in rage though. The guards were going to kill them if they didn't defend themselves. It was defence on her part

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

I know it's going against popular opinion, and I didn't expect to feel this way, but Disney is ruining Star Wars. I tried SO HARD to like the movie but can't come away with any other conclusion. Could write for hours about this but will stick to most important things to have a post of reasonable length.

Non Plot Gripes:
1) Physics: Why are you dropping bombs in space? Gravity doesn't just work like that it'd be more complicated, just shoot the bombs. Ditto to the star destroyer falling after being shot. And as commented, using fuel in a vacuum, Leia not immediately vaporizing and exploding in space.
2) Speed: Way too fast, you couldn't get a seconds break between action and every scene felt rushed with little no context. It reminded of the old Iron Man the animated series.
3) Feel: The prequels had this sort of neutral viewer feel where you're watching the story unfold (the best thing about them if you ask me). This was totally the opposite as tbey zoomed in on every scene, made it way too dramatic and had dialogue that was unbelievable at best, super cringey at worst.

Negativity Break: Poe was hilarious and Del Toro's character was the new Han if only for a bit. Expected him to come in a la millennium falcon in A New Hope, but it was the falcon again which was also a great moment.

Acting: Most of it wasn't great but Luke disappointed me the most. Could never get it out of my mind that he was acting, and just reminded me of the classic theatre kid.

Plot: Short summary, not the direction I expected or wanted. We all had our own expectations but not sure how they can make an interesting episode 9 now.

Completely agree...very disappointed with where they went and how they got there...

He's Still Open!!!

using fuel in a vacuum

I'm admittedly not a physics expert, but I'm assuming that the Resistance would be continuously accelerating away the First Order fleet that would presumably also be continuously accelerating in it's attempt to catch them.

Leia not immediately vaporizing and exploding in space.

You're wrong here, people don't vaporize or explode just from exposure to the vacuum of space, someone exposed to it for an extended period of time will most likely die from oxygen deprivation. ( https://www.space.com/30066-what-happens-to-unprotected-body-in-outer-sp... ). Up to aproximately 2 minutes of vacuum exposure is survivable, though humans normally lose consciousness after about 15 seconds.
In the movie, Leia appears to sense the imminent attack on the bridge, so it's not at all implausible that she would have sent herself into a state of lowered metabolic activity just prior to the attack. This is possible even IRL (breath holding records that are over 10 minutes with normal air and over 20 when breathing pure oxygen prior to the attempt). While she wouldn't be able to simply hold her breath, she could push herself past the 15 seconds of consciousness mark using that kind of technique apart from any force abilities, then it's just a matter of using the force to prevent ebullism and flash-frozen skin and pulling herself back to the Raddus.

So, you about blew my mind with the whole "Why do they need fuel to keep out of range" bit,so now it's time to go super nerd to fix the largest plot hole of all time...
Let's say that the first order was constantly accelerating,and the rebels had to accelerate also to keep away...? Does that work? #itsscience


Perhaps but another point - they said the rebel's ships were faster so why did the range stay constant? And if they were accelerating and could accelerate faster they still should have pulled away.

Of course if you want to get into physics the thing that always bugged me is the jump to hyperspace with no effects of acceleration seen. They are just sitting there like there's not 3,000,000 g's of acceleration going on. (Of course let's figure that if you accelerate at a constant 10g [or ~100 m/s^2], about the limit that the human body could endure, it would take almost 5 weeks to get to light speed.)

VT BSEE '98, VT MSME '01

the jump to hyperspace with no effects of acceleration seen

Inertial Dampers man

Alternatively, what if when you hit a particle with enough force to meet or exceed the acceleration to break the "light barrier" it transitions the particles to a photon like state so that the force of acceleration does no harm because they are effectively massless.

Technically, since we know so little about light speed travel the BS I just wrote could arguably work.

"Hokie religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo

You would think somebody would have developed droid driven ramming ships that you could point at the enemy, go hyper drive, and cut the ship apart. Also, if you know only one ship can track through a jump, why would you not split up?

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

The ship ramming strategy could have been easily explained by having Snoke, General Hux, or someone else order/comment on diverting power away from shields to engines so they can keep up (especially if they noted that the Rebels had done the same. Maybe something along the lines of Snoke ordering the power diverted and Hux asking if it is wise to do so.

On ship tracking, I wasn't sure if they were able to track any ship or if their was a specific ship (or perhaps a certain former stormtrooper who was on the Resistance fleet) they were tracking and even if they were able to track any ship, the resistance wouldn't have known that for sure, given that previous tracking methods involved placing a tracking beacon on/in the ship (Episodes II & IV). If they suspected that they were being tracked that way, then using the fuel you have for that one jump means that the ships of the fleet are stranded away from each other and you also potentially miss the opportunity to evacuate as many people as possible from the ship that is being tracked.

I was going to suggest ethics or international (intergalactic?) law (like war crimes-rape, torture, chemical weapons) prevented normal use of such a procedure. But aside from the initial surprise, no one seemed fazed by it.


-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

So on the acceleration point - no effects going into / out of light speed, but Po gets pushed up against the side of his cockpit when he turns his x wing. Inconsistent on the physics.

Literally unwatchable

In the old EU, ships had acceleration compensators, but fighter pilots would often turn them down to less than full power so they didn't completely loose the feel of flying. In the X-Wing books Wedge Antilles and/or Corran Horn comment that flying with full acceleration compensation is like doing fine work while wearing thick gloves and in another place Wedge blames Jek Porkin's refusal to eject and subsequent death in ANH on his use of full acceleration compensation causing him to not realize that he couldn't pull himself up away from the surface of the Death Star.

I loved it.

I understand all of the criticisms, but the only one that really bugs me is Leia's space walk. And Rose us a weak addition for sure. All of the other stuff, to me, can be chalked up to "Star Wars".

Probably 3rd or 4th in the film rankings for me, but further rewatchings are required.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

It definitely had flaws, but it was 10X better than TFA so I can't complain.

Two things I want from Episode 9; better Jedi lightsaber duels (prequel style), and more character development for Rey.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson

I feel like its also worth noting that not a single Star Wars movie made (yes, even The Empire Strikes Back) is flawless enough to stand up to 90% of the criticism I've seen for Ep. VIII.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson

Yeah. It's like people forget this is a sci-fi space opera set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. There are criticisms I understand and agree with like Space Leia, Snoke being pointless, and I do think the Casino stuff went on for too long but I don't understand how it was entirely unnecessary. They laid out a plan to find the code breaker and bring him back to help the resistance. The plan failed but they did find and introduce the codebreaker who I thought was a very strong and interesting character. Failure was also a huge part of the story. If the plan had worked would people still find it unnecessary? It's by no means a perfect movie but its much better than what some audience reviewers are saying IMO.

"...When we step on that field, they bleed like we bleed and we're gonna show the world."
-Corey Marshall

A must share experience on opening night. Went in to the local theater and of course it was PACKED! A ton of parents brought their 7-8 year old kids. When Ellie from Jurassic Park decided to go ludicrous speed thru Snook's ship it was dead silent in the room (very well done moment). Then out of no where, thru the silence of the crowd, one of the 7 year old kids screams out "Die suckaaaas!" and everyone lost it! I went with a buddy to see it again last night and the scene wasn't the same without the mystery kid commentary.

I couldn't for the life of me remember who the purple haired lady was. Thank you.

Consider me underwhelmed.

  • Filled with "deus ex machina"-style scenes and "lol you thought" plot twists.
  • When did everyone in the galaxy start telling throwaway jokes
  • seemed like director/writer was so concerned with putting his stamp on the series
  • seemed like director/writer decided to wrap up so many story lines or character arcs that he forgot to do any of them very effectively
  • I betcha Leia "dies" in the crawl in IX. "After General Organa's passing, the Rebel Alliance is led by the command of Poe Dameron. something something something yadda yadda yadda"
  • I don't like the idea of force apparition. Luke closed himself off of the force for so long and then is able to appear as a literal physical human (he kisses Leia on the forehead and she's not like "wow yo youre not actually here") across the galaxy? Come ON.
  • Did Leia use the force to zoom back on board the cruiser after being blown out? what WAS that?
  • Benicio Del Toro as Drunk Traitor Han is the worst.
  • Porgs are basically Galaxy Minions
  • If Ghost Yoda can still use the force (is this a first?) why doesn't he just fight Kylo Ren, etc etc etc
  • lil kid at the end force-grabbing his broom and holding it like a lightsaber was pretty neat
  • Kylo Ren's character development is pretty awesome. Liked seeing the flashback scene pingpong back and forth from their different points of view.
  • Ren and Rey's joint/tandem character development is a new and interesting twist. If Snoke was the one mind melding them, how does it continue after Snoke is dead?
  • Ren's declaration that Rey's parents were dead drunk jakku nobody's feels like a trolljob more than a true indication of their insignificance.
  • Ren's character development in declining to bomb Leia in the ship and also killing snoke rather than Rey is closest the numbered movies have come to Rogue One in terms of nuance. Rogue One did by far the best job of painting in broad grey strokes the resistance and the empire. Galen Erso as a "good bad guy" and Saw Guerrera as a "bad good guy."
  • If Luke wanted to know whether or not Rey could be a jedi or whatnot, why didn't he just test her midichlorians???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Edit: am i the only one who literally laughs out loud every time i see this guy? one buddy called him "the rubber monkey guy" and another buddy said "it looks like his cheeks are inside out".

Chem PhD '16

If Luke wanted to know whether or not Rey could be a jedi or whatnot, why didn't he just test her midichlorians???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am pretty sure that it has been established that canon is trying to ignore that medichloreans were ever a thing. And rightfully so. The explanation Luke gives of the force in this movie is perfect.

Yeah, that was tongue in cheek because midichlorians is dumb

Chem PhD '16

I choose to believe that the technology to test midichlorians was lost when the Jedi Temple burned in ROTS which explains why they're never mentioned again beyond the prequels.

(If you're looking for a reason why they're gone beyond "yeah they realized that was completely stupid.")

am i the only one who literally laughs out loud every time i see this guy? one buddy called him "the rubber monkey guy" and another buddy said "it looks like his cheeks are inside out".

When did everyone in the galaxy start telling throwaway jokes

I feel like this isn't just a Star Wars thing, its a trend in a lot of movies across many genres nowadays. It's like we've come full circle back to the 1930s movies where everyone speaks in wisecracks and one liners.

It feels like pandering to children and kills a lot of dramatic and tense moments. Like the shit when Luke rolls in to the base and everyone's "Aww shit it's about to go down", then Leia talks about her fucking hair. Are you kidding me?

Recruit Prosim

Most recent season of GoT had a few too many one liners. But most of them were fire.

Twitter me

Too much to tackle, especially in the amount of time I have right now, but I'll respond to this one:

Did Leia use the force to zoom back on board the cruiser after being blown out? what WAS that?


1. Luke tells Leia she's strong in the Force in RotJ in the scene where he reveals to her she's his sister and Vader is their father. Her sensing Luke at the end of Empire Strikes Back when he calls out to her is our first indication.

2. in the Extended Universe/no longer canon Legends Universe, Leia opted not to complete her training as a Jedi after turning Luke from the Dark Side because of the Skywalker Curse (Anakin/Vader, Luke, then her son Jacen all fall to the Dark Side).

Can I thank you.

I want to like it. I still think the force awakens is my favorite. It's at least on par with the originals and Rogue one was sweet.

I didn't like this. As a movie I liked it okay, but still some of the plot stuff was really pointless.

1. Something about the way it was shot felt different...almost kiddish, cartoonish I don't know but from the first scene I could tell it wasn't J.J. Abrams. The force awakens felt like the old Star Wars movies, and Rogue one felt the same way, even had a little but darker edge.

2. I thought J.J. did such a good job by using puppeted characters not CGId. This felt a little bit like do 1-3 but like what 1-3 should have been if they didn't suck.

3. The Ren Rey connection thing was just too new for me I guess.

4. Snoke wasnt nearly the bad guy I was hoping, I thought he died kind of easy. But I did like how Kylo Ren now is the super bad guy.

5. Just when I was starting to get into it, I really didn't like the way Luke died, just go out like Obi Wan?

6. Nit picky I know but C3PO and Yoda didn't sound right...

I think I need to watch it again...

Take out Finn and Rose's "mission" and this is a good movie. The movie was average at best.

Agreed on that mission. It just felt so Random and out of place. And you expect us to believe they did all of that in 6 hours? I know Hyperspace is fast, but it takes me 3 hours to drive to Blacksburg.

You can put Rose and Jar Jar Binks in an escape pod and fling it far out into the Unknown Regions as far as I'm concerned. Poor character, poorly written, no chemistry at all with Finn, yet it takes up so much time. I'd think I'd bump my rating a full letter grade if that entire story was cut

Please tell me I'm not the only one...

I mean I agree that you need to smoke a lot of pot in order to force yourself to eat a Moe's burrito, but this doesn't seem like the right place to post this.

Yea, I thought Snoke's golden robe thing was pretty silly looking, too.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

To add a few things that I don't think have been mentioned here.

1. Why keep the "secret base" hidden from the crew? (BOOOO!)
This was nothing but manipulation of the audience, setting up Purple Hair as a villain only to have her end up as a real hero. But why? Why not tell everybody that they had a secret destination they were making their way to? Then you wouldn't have people constantly sneaking to the escape pods and setting up secret missions, because there would actually be a plan that they were all working toward.

2. Rey's reaction to Ren staying with the dark side. (YES!)
I thought Daisy Ridley turned in the single best-acted moment in all of Star Wars with her reaction here when Kylo Ren chooses to stay on the evil road. The heartbreak was palpable. In a series which has been rife with emotional moments which simply ended up flat, this was so very very well done.

3. The timeline (BOOOO!)
So the opening crawl is that the First Order is in complete command of the universe. But since it picks up at literally the moment TFA ended (with Rey giving Luke the lightsaber), how has any of that had a chance to develop? And since the Resistance is just in the middle of evacuating their base, how did they have time to plan this intricate plan to wipe out the Dreadnaught which they didn't know was coming?

4. Kylo Ren's inner turmoil. (YES!)
Kylo Ren becomes the first Star Wars villain with any kind of emotional depth. He is the only villain who is not simply evil. I thought the way his relationship with Rey developed over the movie was compelling and fascinating. And when he killed Snoke and fought alongside Rey, there was genuinely a possibility that he might actually come around.

5. That's not how the force works! (BOOO!)
Quoting Han from TFA. What is this little Force flirting nonsense? And to such a connection that Ren gets rain on his hands, and when Luke comes in he can see them. I think part of that is to establish that so Luke can do the same thing at the end, but why does Luke get to choose to look how he wants (younger and doing interesting things) instead of just looking like he's sitting on a rock meditating? And how was he able to leave a physical set of dice from the Falcon with Leia?

6. Luke's aversion to training Rey. (YES!)
Luke still has deep wounds from Ren's betrayal that are believable, and his refusal to train Rey is entirely believable, especially when he connect's Rey's power with Ren's. And in the end when he barges in on them playing patty-cake in Rey's bedroom, we see that his fear is 100% justified.

7. So how has Rey learned all of this stuff? (BOOO!)
By the end of the movie, Rey is just as badass as any Jedi we've seen in any of the movies. And yet she not has any training whatsoever ... just that 60 second lesson on finding the Force in the balance of nature. How has she learned to pickup a whole landslide of boulders at one time? In her battle with Snoke's guards, where do we see her in any way inferior to, say, Vader or Mace Windu?

I agree with many of the other comments made above - thought I would bring up some that I hadn't seen yet. Overall I enjoyed the movie with my kids and I'm sure we'll end up buying it on BluRay and watching it another 10 times because they loved it.

In regard to #5, they actually show the dice being picked up by Kylo Ren after they flee the base and the dice disappear in his hands. Still, Luke and Leia hold hands in that scene so the only thing that makes sense is Leia knows he is not physically there and is just playing along. That's one thing that frustrated me with this movie. That and I kinda wanted to punch Rose in the face the entire movie and was visibly upset that she didn't get stomped on by an imperial walker.

Still, Luke and Leia hold hands in that scene so the only thing that makes sense is Leia knows he is not physically there and is just playing along. That's one thing that frustrated me with this movie.

yeah, he kisses her forehead too...

That and I kinda wanted to punch Rose in the face the entire movie and was visibly upset that she didn't get stomped on by an imperial walker.

Oh man I totally expected the same thing! That she knocks him out of the path of the energy beam cannon thing and then they both get stomped on or shot during their (weirdly) tender moment. The writers still haven't figured out what to do with Finn yet and it shows.

Chem PhD '16

In regard to #5, they actually show the dice being picked up by Kylo Ren after they flee the base and the dice disappear in his hands.

Right ... but how were they even still there? Was he using his last bit of the force to keep the dice in existence while he died? And then he dies so the illusory dice disappear too?!?!?

I guess since we are on this, I'll put up one more.

8. No reason why one Jedi disappears and another doesn't.
So Obi Wan disappeared when he was killed by Vader, and Yoda when he died of natural causes. But then Qui Gon did not ... none of the Jedi killed in the arena in Ep 2 or in Order 66 in Ep 3 disappeared. But now we're back to disappearing Jedi corpses? This aspect of the series make no sense.

At the end of Episode three you hear Yoda talking to Obi Won about learning how to do this. Qui Gon was the first, but since he learned in the after life his death wasn't by choice. I get the dice argument, but for the ghosts they've been fairly consistent.

Well, except then why does Anakin show up as a force ghost at the end of return of the Jedi, but Vader doesn't fade away when he dies? It's really not that consistent.

I think its that he learned like Qui Gon, after he died. I think you're confusing how someone dies and how they become a force ghost. Body disappears only by choice, ghosting is whether they learn it in the afterlife.

It seems like they are related. But I don't recall seeing Luke as a force ghost, just the disappearing part, which is what I'm talking about.

Fair, and if he isn't a force ghost in Ep9 then call me out on it. But the disappearance is only about the choice, and more importantly, prior knowledge of becoming a force ghost.

I agree with most but Luke doesn't leave the physical dice set from the falcon it was quick but they showed Kylo ren pick up the dice from the floor when in the base and when he grabs and looks at them the evaporate into the force I thought that was neat little extra fuck you from Luke lol

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Actually, per Legends material, that is how the Force works.

I was able to touch you because we are connected by the Force. I drew on your link with the Force to become more solid, just as I draw on it now to become visible to you."
―The ghost of Aidan Bok to Tash Arranda (Galaxy of Fear series)

"A manifested spirit could wield Force powers, although not all of them. It also had the ability to travel instantaneously to any point in the galaxy by force of will. That power, however, required that the spirit be familiar with the destination. The presence of the Force at the place of arrival was also necessary for that ability to work, since it acted as a beacon."

Force projection is new (re: this movie) but I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way. As for Luke disappearing, the "explanation" is the strain of what he did was so great that it caused him to become one with the Force (which is what happened to Yoda and Obi Wan).

Champions of the Force also states that Anakin's body did vanish upon expiring and that what Luke creamated was simply Vader's armor and mechanical parts for ritualistic purposes.

Edit: The first two quotes are specifically about Force Spirits, for clarification.

7) Yoda burned the ancient temple and basically the books inside the temple mean absolutely nothing. You don't need to be taught the force, or Jedi way, if it's strong enough you can learn it yourself. Rey is strong.


Yoda knew that Rey took the books with her in the Falcon, so burning the temple was meaningless, as the texts were saved. He knew the survival of the Jedi was preserved.

By the way, MAJOR props for them to bring back the old Yoda puppet rather than going CGI. Felt like it connected the whole story a bit better.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Luke didn't know Rey took the books. The burning of the temple by Yoda was for Luke, so it wasn't meaningless. Yoda was teaching Luke that "the past is the past, so stop dwelling on it". This queued him for his final battle with Kylo to bring him back to a place of balance.

Precisely. In the grand scheme, burning the temple was meaningless, as Yoda knew that the Jedi would persevere, but Luke had no idea. As you said, doing that was the kick in the pants needed for Luke to intervene and save the Rebellion.

With that said, I'm a little disappointed that they did it with a hologram and not Luke bringing his old X wing out of the water and coming back one last time with R2, who is probably a goner at this point as well. They had all the chess pieces in place to make that last part a lot better and dropped the ball.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

R2, who is probably a goner at this point as well

I remember reading about 100 years ago that C-3PO and R2-D2 would be the only characters to appear in all nine stories.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

If they did the same as ObiWan and Darth Vader, it would have been criticized. I think it was just to differentiate

Recruit Prosim

7. So how has Rey learned all of this stuff? (BOOO!)

To me this is the biggest plot hole of all, and I just can't get past it.

The only other thing I don't like is continuing to cast dead Carrie Fisher as Leia. Please, Disney, just kill her character off. It's too creepy that the only original human character remaining from the original three films, is, in fact, dead.

Other than those two points, I enjoyed this film. I like the Kylo/Rey arc, and the Benicio del Toro arc. Luke finally hit the perfect note. The Yoda reappearance was great.

Carrie died after all the shooting was done. Do you want them to scrap everything and redo it all? They've already said there will be no CGI Leia in IX. What could possibly be another solution here?

Did not know about this. Thanks.

Here is an article that explains exactly why Rey understands the powers of the force.

The Force Awakens Tilte is explained in The Last Jedi

In short synopsis, when Vader kills the Emporer and created balance in the force, the force changed. Before balance you needed to learn it through Jedi or Sith training, but because of the balance the Force no longer needs to be trained. It has awaken in the universe and no longer needs to be "learned". It's a good read.


Fan theories like this are always interesting, trying to pull together the strands of the story ... kind of like the Darth Jar Jar theory:

Fan Theory: Jar Jar is Darth Pagueis

But the problem is that we don't really know what is in the mind of the authors besides what they give us. This article that you linked to is interesting, but it gives the Force a form of sentience. If the previous movies have taught anything about the Force, it is that its a completely inanimate, non-personal power. This fan theory only works if the Force is in fact personal - it is capable of thought, of decision-making, of planning - and I just don't think that matches the Force as it has been revealed.

With regards to #1... is it ever revealed that Holdo keeps her plan from everyone? Because Poe had just gotten his bomber fleet destroyed by disobeying an order and was demoted. He didn't deserve to know anything

There aren't that many people, and somehow Poe is able to get the people who are around to stage his little mutiny. Finn hadn't done anything wrong but he's trying to get into an escape pod. With the information we have in the movie, nobody knew Holdo's plan except her.

They could have given our boi Ackbar one last iconic line, or something


The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

That would be incredible, the slow motion back and forth between him in the cockpit and General Hux "Wait, the ships turning around" then he chuckless and delivers the killer line. Talk about a missed opportunity!

Biggest miss in a long time why give the moment to some new rando instead to one of the storied commanders in rebellion history?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

As I mentioned in my comment, because they wanted to create artificial tension. Since we've seen Ep 7 we trust Poe and assume he's doing the right thing and this bizarro whoever she is ... we don't know anything about her motivations and so we assume that Poe is right and question her motives.

If it had been Admiral Ackbar, nobody would have questioned his motives. They would have assumed he was doing the right thing, and then Poe's mutiny and Finn's little excursion to Vegas would make no sense.

Hardest part to swallow has been how Disney has been devoted to creating as much distance as possible (and more importantly, as fast as possible) from anything related to the original trilogy. Yes, I've heard how this new trilogy is supposed to spotlight the new (Disney) characters, I get it. But rather than creating compelling new characters and having them have great chemistry with the icons (expand the galaxy vs. destroy an older part to make sure we're focusing on the new part) Disney is ensuring the 'torch is passed' by making sure there aren't at original ones left.

Hate it for Chewie in Ep 9.


I saw the movie, Saturday night. Slept through most of it... I'm not a Star Wars guy, but I went because my wife is a SW Nerd. ...anywho, I remember waking up...seeing the Princess blown out into the cold, empty void of outer space...and then she ...flew? her way back onto the ship? I audibly said.. "what?" ..then went back to sleep.

I don't know shit about Star Wars apparently.

Best overall commentary on the movie I have read.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Why wasn't Vice Admiral Holdo on the bridge with the rest of the senior staff?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

When she is introduced they mention the name of the ship she is from (The Reliant maybe?) implying obviously she had been on one of the 2 other ships that made it out of the initial ambushes.

Now why in fuck all you need multiple admirals of any grade for maybe 6 ships even before they started getting blown up is another story but I think that was how they explained it.

I think you have multiple admirals left when the resistance is that small. You have one on another ship in case one gets blown up

Chem PhD '16

The Reliant maybe?

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

After thinking about it more, and I know there was no way for anyone to no, but I wish Leia was the one who Hyperspaced the ship into Snoke's. She could have been like "so much loss blah blah, it's time for me to do something." Then Admiral Purple Hair could have basically taken her place as the leader, and Leia would have gone out like a badass. Now I feel like the next one will take place 10 years later or so and they will just explain her away.

Oh we'll just a thought I had.

I think Poe is being set up to replace her as head of the rebellion

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

There is only one remaining person with senior command experience in the Rebellion/New Republic and administrative experience.

Perhaps you've heard about his maneuver at the Battle of Tanaab

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I'll exand on this because I'm in total agreement so here's how I fix the movie.

1. Rose doesn't exist.
2 Poe and Finn go to casino planet (still not great but it's better if it's the two of them and yellow shirt lady rebel could jump the cruiser if they succeed)
3 Leia is the one to hyperspace through the bad guys
4. Purple hair is the new leader lady.
5 Poe gets back to realize that his heroics don't always work, failure, yadda yadda yadda (he basically does this anyway)
6. Finn learns sacrifice fo real.
7. Finn dies blowing up battering ram laser
8 power struggle between purple hair/Poe saved for next movie.
9 Ghost Luke opens the blast door anyway to confront REN since he knows Hux will find his way in eventually/no aid is coming
10. Movie still ends the same with the rebels on the Falcon and Luke evaporating

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

I thought the movie was great. Come here to read comments and feel like there were a lot of flaws and mis-steps. I would watch it again and buy the blu-ray on release.

I do believe that Captain Phasma is still alive. I really expected to see more of her.

just saw the movie's first showing at the local theater today. still figuring out where I stand on this (at least better than the prequels IMO) but i'm still absorbing it.

Some items of note:

Finally realized this--there were a lot of British actors identifiable by their accents; why is Jon Boyega acting in an American one?

Could have done without the casino planet scene but kept the mission to get to the Codebreaker.

The Codebreaker's role reminded me too much of Lando Calrissian; I saw right through his intentions. An opportunist like him has zero loyalty but to himself. we'll see if he's in future films and has that "Lando Moment" where he realizes his mistake and helps the Rebels.

during the Kylo and Rey fight scene, why was it strictly limited to sword play without the addition of the force to level the combat playing field? Using the Force to push one attacker while finishing the other would have worked advantageously to each. or maybe choke one with the clench of the fist while striking at another...

and yeah, I dug the Porgs...


Thing of note is that the Benicio Del Toro character isn't "The Codebreaker" that they went to get, but someone they ended up with

Chem PhD '16

Finally realized this--there were a lot of British actors identifiable by their accents; why is Jon Boyega acting in an American one?

Star Wars' inconsistency on accents can be pretty annoying. Finn should sound like the other First Order members if he was raised from birth to be a stormtrooper.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.


Just saw it and walked away impressed at the fight and action sequences and disappointed in pretty much everything else.

The Fin and Rose storyline was absolute garbage.

My wife and I loved it. Luke was badass, Leia was badass, you learned a lot about Rey and her motivations, and you learned a lot about Ben and his turn to the dark side. Yeah there are some weird parts, but I also don't remember laughing so much during a Star Wars movie which was good.

Similar to TFA, I'm frustrated with the power of the force - specifically Kylo and Rae. In TFA, he was suspending blaster fire and reading minds. Fast forward to TLJ and he struggles with imperial guards and comes to a stalemate with Rae on getting a light saber. On the other hand Rae heard about the force and is now levitating rocks and an equal warrior as Kylo Ren (who trained with Luke and some Sith Lord). Wishing Kylo was a warrior bad ass the way he started in episode 7 - would be easier to digest his conflict and temper tantrums. But they keep going back and forth with his power.

Also, should be assume Snoke was a sith given his force lightening, meaning there should be another. The same as the way that kid at the end pulled his broom towards him, indicating some kinda force powers. Force is all over the place.

To kind of answer your frustration, Snoke makes a comment to the effect of "darkness rises, light rises to meet it". I think that's the most explanation for Rey's powers that we're ever going to get

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

I think as the level of conflict within Kylo Ren increases, he's losing his strong connection to the dark side. That would explain him apparently becoming progressively weaker in his abilities.

Snoke was shown to be incredibly powerful in this movie as well, I wondering if some of the power that Kylo was showing could have been channeled to him from Snoke similarly to how Snoke as able to bridge Rey and Kylo's minds.

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

Shout out to purple-hair for keeping the actual escape plan a secret, which causes her crew to mutiny and form their own plan, which eventually leads them to tell the morally suspect code breaker dude who eventually sells them out to the First Order.

Way to go.


Go Hokies

Go Falcons

And that's why you're nothing but a follower. Leaders gotta lead, bro! /s

I was good with the movie. Wasn't amazing, but I liked it.

But seriously, when the hell did Leia get force powers? And who trained her how to harness them?? Or did she die and fly through space as a force ghost and they just didn't portray that right?

And when did mind connecting become a force power? It was almost like Snoke was a cross reincarnation of Harry Potter... And if Snoke could supposedly read Kylo's mind so damn well, how the hell could he not tell Kylo was secretly turning the lightsaber on him? Was he that distracted by the weapon in his right hand that he didn't pay attention to the left? Or was Kylo's light side powerful enough to mask the dark side for a moment??

It almost felt like Oprah was in the writing room just handing our force powers.. I know Qui-Gon said the Force flows through all things, but before it almost seemed like you had to be "special" to be able to channel the Force, now it seems like it's all inclusive and you just have to want it. And if that's the case, why was it such a big deal that Anakin's midiclorian count was so high?

Ep. 9 better have some damn answers!!!!

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"


Luke tells Leia in Episode VI that she has force abilities and will learn to harness them in time. The implication being that Luke trained her some time between Endor and The Fall of the new Jedi Temple. The other possibility is that Leia is just force sensitive with little to no training but survival instinct kicked in and allowed her to manipulate the for to keep herself alive.

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

Ah, I do remember that now.... I'd still like an explanation of how she learned.... Just for content i guess

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"


I think the explanation is "in the 30 years between movies, she learned her some Force ..." It seems that the arc of the movie was actually going to be Leia having a lightsaber hoe-down with Kylo Ren as the big climax.

There are a lot of angry young men who could picture themselves killing their father and killing a teacher they hated. But most of them still love their mother. I think that was the direction the movies were heading.

I started off enjoying it and by the end of the movie had somewhat of an indifferent opinion of the movie. After I thought about it though there were some things that really bothered me (although I basically agree with almost every complaint in this thread, I'm only mentioning the ones for which I haven't heard the same take

1) Rose is just...the worst. Beyond what's been said so far about her generally just being a terrible character, she has two spots in this movie that are truly awful. The first is after they dismount the horse-chihuahua-kangaroos and although Finn starts us off by suggesting that its all worth it (them being captured and failing their mission) because they helped out with animal cruelty, Rose one-ups him by stopping, removing the horse-chi-roo's saddle, and saying no, now it's worth it. No. No Rose it's not. Saving a few horse-chi-roos does not make up for the end of the entire rebellion especially when we can probably assume they'd be recaptured minutes later. Rose is the worst volume 2 comes at the end. Finn is about to make himself actually relevant and become somewhat interesting to me as a character by sacrificing himself to stop the battering ram machine. Rose then intentionally crashes into his ship and stops him, allowing the ram an open shot at the cave. When asked by Finn why she did it she says, I saved you. No. No, Rose you just killed everyone and ruined Finn's heroic moment.

2) It actually seems like overall everyone liked Luke so I guess I could be in the minority, but I was incredibly disappointed. In Episode 6, you can tell Luke has grown into a Jedi Master. He's got that calmness to him but now we're back to him being a scared kid? Not to mention "Hey Rey I got 3 lessons for ya, the force connects stuff. That's lesson one and damn you catch on quick! That took me two movies! Alright lesson two, the Jedi are total dicks! And lesson 3 is....shit, I forgot! Oh well, fuck it you got this!" (Spoilers: Direct Quote) Then the way Luke goes out was even a letdown. Like AT-ATs unloading on him and he walks out like it's nothin? How awesome is that?! Then you think you're getting an awesome lightsaber battle, just like we all wanted since Rey handed Luke's back to him. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, he's a hologram!!! Surprise everyone, now none of that was cool because it was all fake and he was never there.

For the record the Rey+Kylo team up was awesome for the moment just after Kylo kills Snoke until they disagree again. Any outcome of that scene besides the typical one jedi vs one sith makes Episode 9 and future trilogies potentially infinitely more interesting.

And to be fair, I will watch it again and regardless, I will watch Episode 9 on opening night. So I've already lost...

Taylor... looking desperately...now throws it DEEP..HAS A MAN OPEN! CAUGHT! DANNY COALE! ALL THE WAY! OUT OF BOUNDS, at the three...

This physics shit has been bothering me as it pertains to acceleration and it's effects on fuel consumption and forces on the human body. Then I thought about the opening storyline and the bomb run and I thought why the hell do you have to use gravity bombs in space, and how exactly would they work? Wouldn't it be easier to bomb up from underneath if they were some kinda guided bomb? Seemed like a cool WW2 throwback scene, but now that I think about it it doesn't make much sense.

Its best not to get wrapped up too much in the real world physics of it. Afterall, lightsabers can't really exist yet no one bitches about that. Now, logic gaps, are totally fair game. I don't give two shits if Holdo hitting lightspeed to rip a ship in half is physically sound. I do give a shit that her thinking process makes no sense. I don't really care that from a physics point of view that running low on fuel makes no sense in space (once you hit the speed you want, there's no need for the engines to be on). I do care about the logic gap of if you can just ram other ships, why bother running at all?

It's this kind of stuff when I say there are large parts of the movie that are underwritten. Rey and Ren are the best parts of the movie. The rest feels entirely like it wasn't a finished, thought out process. It's just a series of moments Rian Johnson thought would be cool and they loosely filled in some plot

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Yuck. no /s.

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Just saw it and basically everybody covered what I felt. I enjoyed TFA better. Lightsaber stuff was cooler in this one. But not a ton of force powers being used. No Snoke origins. No lightsaber battle with Luke. Overemphasis on "let the past die" (yeah, that shit was totally propaganda). I put it in league with the prequels (basically on the level of ROTS, the BEST of the prequels).

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ROTS, the BEST of the prequels Star Wars movies


Disagree. I absolutely DO NOT put it above ANH or ESB. I will put it on par (almost) with ROTJ.

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Well, that's one vote.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

By far my favorite skit since Peyton Manning's SNL skit of him helping kids in the United way ad

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I did like that Luke became a force ghost but was hoping for that to occur in the 3rd film. Wanted to see a badass lightsaber fight plus grandmaster force stuff from him. And while not as many as TFA, there were still a few moments where I could have inserted a fart noise.

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The Last Jedi was almost as slow to watch as the Presbyterian game Tuesday night.

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And another thing too. People keep harping on how Luke "FINALLY" got tempted by the dark side. Seems people keep forgetting ROTJ in Jabba's palace and the 2nd Death Star in the Emperor's throne room.

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Saw it last night. It was way better than TFA. TFA was a lazy but fun rehash of Episode 4. The screenplay here was much more thought out (spoiler alert: all films have plot holes). The entire film did a fantastic job of showing some of the internal conflict between the main characters, especially Kylo Ren. The only thing that truly bugged me was some of the lines being kind of cliche or tacky.

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Alllllllright it's the moment you've all been waiting for: Beard Takes.

I saw it last night in a sparsely populated theater with my best friends. It was so sparsely populated in fact that we were very loud for most of the movie and got shushed by someone we didn't know was behind us.
And that was worse than anything that happened in the actual movie. I was expecting it to be prequel-level bad judging by some of the things I'd heard before seeing it. But I absolutely loved it overall. Still had some gripes and I'll get those out of the way first.

    Forget about extended universe, fan fiction, what's canon/not canon. Apparently you can project holograms of yourself (Luke at the end) and have some truly fucky astral projection type shit happen through the Force (Ren and Rey), which had never been shown in the movies before. Obviously they're gonna do what they want with it, but I would have liked there to be some precedent for that.

    Too many cutesy-wutesy strange animals (the spiny ice cats, the porgs[don't @me], the floppy headed shark goats on the casino planet, and was Luke milking that island creature REALLY necessary)

    The failure to communicate by the Resistance brass. Creating an escape plan that worked in spite of itself and was needlessly complicated.

    Leia getting ejected into space and that BS float back to the ship (plus we saw her manifest more Force abilities than we've ever seen before, though I guess it's about time)

    Snoke. I kinda thought he was lame in TFA, and this movie confirmed it. Just as evil as the Emperor, but not even half as smart.

    The fact that Red Flower Codebreaker Guy didn't turn out to be Lando (shh I was hoping)

    Now for the good. It is an absolute joy watching the acting in these new movies, which I think is a step up from even the originals. Hux's sniveling, Kylo Ren's depth of character and descent into madness, Poe's immense swagger, Luke being crochety and old yet somehow still Luke, Leia (who I loved outside of the float back to the ship), the moment on the Falcon where R2 plays the old hologram that started it all and Luke says "that was a cheap move," Rey being a truer manifestation of the Light than Luke ever was, Finn...he tries so hard, but he's clearly not very good at the thrilling heroics the way Poe is. I think he realizes that and so he tries to help the only way he can by giving his life...he doesn't even succeed at that, but he finds himself a little more. I don't they're trying to make him the new Han. I think they're making him the first Finn.

    I'm going to need to watch it again to make further observations, but to me it is every bit a Star Wars movie and not half as bad as some are making it out to be. It's Star Wars for a new generation.

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to me it is every bit a Star Wars movie and not half as bad as some are making it out to be. It's Star Wars for a new generation.

I wish I could buy you a damn beer for this quote.

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

Snoke wasn't as powerful and manipulative as I wanted himmmmmm to beeeeee. Humph!

I feel like I'm only going to like it after Abrams fixes everything he ruined.


I watch it again and fast forward past the Leia slow glide.

I do feel like the it ended in a place that leaves it open for an uprising from the oppressed.

Maybe J.J. will bring back a rugged puppeteerrr Jar Jar Binks and redeems him as a character.

...and Ewoks come back
...and more jawas

And C3POs voice goes back to normal.

And another thing....

The knights of Ren better show up...

And maybe bring some kind of connection to rogue one and the Jedha monks?!!??

I loved it. It almost had a GOT-esque quality of suspense since it felt like anything could happen and anyone could die at any time. The characters (Luke especially) had interesting story arcs you could follow throughout the movie.

My chief complaint is the fans putting the series on a pedestal and failing to enjoy the movie for what it is. If you didn't like this movie, tell me which other movie in the series you liked better? To me it was right there among the original trilogy and also 1000x better than Episode 7 which was basically just a rehash of Episode 4 with more modern effects, a more diverse cast, and a bigger Death Star.

As an example of what I mean: this is a story that centers around space wizards having sword fights with laser beams and people want to complain about how they're not sure if the "physics" make sense? None of the technology is remotely similar to what we have IRL. In my opinion, the creators pretty much have free license to make it work however they like to for the sake of the plot.

Tell me which other movie in the series you liked better

Honestly all of them. Not trying to be a dick or anything, I just actually didn't think the story was interesting in addition to the other gripes

Honestly all of them

Touché. The "Weesa going home!" *cringe* line may put Episode 1 lower.

But the point is that there are many fans that don't like the movie, not because they're whiny or want to crap on Disney, but because it's their honest opinion

You're entitled to your opinion, but I feel like you're proving my point a little. Consensus is pretty much that Episode I is the worst of the series, but you still felt the need to say that ALL of the movies were better than the newest one. It's really easy to lump all of these episodes into STAR WARS, this legendary perfect franchise (like I said, putting it on a pedestal). The reality is some of those movies are pretty bad and even the "good" ones have some moments people want to forget (Leia kissed Luke???).

They took some creative risks for this movie, which I think is the ultimate source of the controversy. Basically the opposite of what they did for Episode 7, which as I already said, I thought was a boring rehash. If the lesson here is they should have played it safe and done what everyone expected them to do, then I'm happy being in disagreement with that.

I figure this is as good of a time as any to reference these. For those who haven't seen them, these sound like a much better storyline to episodes 1, 2, and 3. Here is the link to episode 1.
What if episode 1 was good?

Star Wars: hmmm...I think the highs were high and the lows were low.
bummed about no answer to Rey's origins (if what they said is true, that's pretty weak)
bummed about no story to Snoke
bummed about inserting characters just for political correctness (MORE girl power) - Rose/L. Dern (my opinion I realize- no biggie)
Finn's getting lamer
Leiea definitely needed to die

liked the cinematography
liked Rey's fierceness (great guttural shriek)-> she is much tougher than Padme IMO
liked Poe's balls
liked Yoda
liked the fight scenes (saber and ships - brilliant to watch)
liked Benico but didn't really get his role

just some quick thoughts - not too epic, give it a B+
definitely was hyped more so my expectations were a bit too high
but surely worth seeing for yourself

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bummed about inserting characters just for political correctness (MORE girl power) - Rose/L. Dern (my opinion I realize- no biggie)

Not convinced this was a PC move - I'm wondering if there will be competing love interests for Finn in the next movie. Might start some drama.

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Am I the only one that sees some serious sexual tention between Rey and Ren? It's like the only thing interesting about this new story line, especially with Finn no longer being Jediesque anymore.


Oh there was definitely some serious force sex going on

Ren is just Rey's side piece. She can hook up with him thru the Force and her real man will never know

Which begs 2 questions: a) is hooking up with someone through the force considered literal, actual, factual & physical sex and b) can one get impregnated deep impact stylez in that way?

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Ugh maybe they are trying to explain how Anikin was miraculously conceived? Maybe there was a force banging going on and the aftermath was a child that conceived in the force and creates a Virgin Mary type situation.


I didn't see Laura Dern's character as a nod to PC.

If you watch the Star Wars films, a female character has more or less been in charge of the Rebellion/Resistance the entire time:
Mon Mothma
Princess Leia
Vice Admiral Holdo

I wish they hadn't thrown out the Expanded Universe, because it would have been neat to see Admiral Daala somewhere in there for the Empire/First Order. General Hux to me is a charicature of a bad guy and not someone I even take seriously

I have always been hoping for Gilad Pellaeon as the main Imperial. He and Grand Admiral Sloane would've made a formidable team.

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Although I think that's the point with Hux. No one takes him seriously. NO ONE. Definitely looked like he was pondering motives/sides in his last scene

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But he ends up being pretty effective, like with the whole hyperspace tracker thing.

And it's not like being jerked around by Poe was something out of the ordinary for First Order leaders .. Luke does the same thing to Kylo on the salt mine planet.

Also he was reaching for his blaster to ice Kylo there after the throne room battle, but Kylo woke up first.

Ok after thinking about it for a while reading this thread, I just don't get the story they are trying to tell here and if someone can help me I would love it. The first 3 episodes where about Anikin and his journey to become Darth Vader and how the Empire came to power. The next 3 were about the Luke, Vader, the Jedi returning and the end of the Empire.

Is this new story a love story between Rey and Ren?

I feel like the entire theme of the movie is that the same shit will continue to happen unless the source is destroyed. IE the rich people making money off of both sides and they are the ones that ultimately need to be stopped or the cycle will just continue. A dark force will rise and good force will rise to greet it.

I get why Finn was given a love interest, it opened Ray up to be interested in Ren. What I don't get is in the first movie he seemed like he would be becoming a Jedi as well, but in this movie he has no force abilities or light saber fights or anything. He is just another guy really.


I never got the impression that Finn was supposed to be especially Force Sensitive in TFA. Looking just at the times that he used a lightsaber, he got his butt kicked by a stormtrooper with a riot control baton and had to be saved by Han and then an injured Kylo easily bested him at the end and he had to be saved by Rey..

I don't think the part about not having enough fuel is being discussed enough here. In space, there aren't enough forces at play in a given space to really cause natural deceleration after you have put an object in motion, so once you've essentially pushed, even if you run out of fuel, you're not exactly going to slow down. If the Rebel ships were just naturally faster, there wasn't anything to prevent them from doing so outside of Hollywood drama. And the ships falling back adrift after running out of fuel was just baaaaad. I actually had this same thought when rewatching Star Trek Voyager a month or so back and glad someone brought it up here because it just doesn't make much sense.

Also, with how vast space is, it is incredible how the "secret" rebel Outpost happened to be in viewing range of the First Order ships as they abandoned ship. They were practically in high orbit when it happened. (Which gets me back to the RIDICULOUS scene in TFA when everyone saw the Starkiller shot with the clarity they did... I guess you just have to suspend the realities of space to make these kinds of movies look good. Star Trek did the same in 2009 when Spock watched Vulcan implode from another planet)

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Is it possible that the star destroyers are massive enough to have gravitational pull? That would require fuel to maintain constant velocity.

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Is it possible that the star destroyers are massive enough to have gravitational pull?

Any pull would be negligible at best. Those ships, while big, pale in comparison to planets.

Even the completely massive Supremacy (Snoke's ship) is only 60km wide. Hell, the Death Star came in only at about 150km in diameter.

Plus, there is the fact that these ships are largely hollow air filled metal framed balloons. They just don't have the density to create the magnetic fields necessary to have it's own pull and none of them should be showing down in space without constant acceleration. Plus, given the Death Star's size, this scene from Rogue One is bullshit.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

It's best not to think about that part of the story unless you want to ruin the movie for yourself because the more you think about it, the faster it all unravels. Like REALLY fast. Like "maybe this shouldn't have made it past a rough draft" fast.

Kind of like how, if you think for about 4 seconds, the entire premise of Star Wars, its mythology, and most of its technology are completely implausible/impossible? Physics and engineering are the least of our concerns.

Each ship has artificial gravity, and other electrical operating systems. So yes they could not be using fuel for travel purposes, but they are using it for other things.


I assumed that they were already on their way to the secret rebel outpost before they realized they were being tracked.

One mans opinion, but this was a bunch of exposition and imo-feeling-searching drivel that people would crap all over it wasn't wrapped in the Star Wars logo. Empire was a movie that left cliffhangers because you knew there was another chapter to tell, I don't actually care what happens to any of the characters in this series anymore.

A few issues:
1) Phasma should already be dead. WTF were Fin and Han thinking letting her go in the Force Awakens? Here is a leader in the First Order, your buddies are literally falling out of the sky all around you in a desperate attempt to save all of the galaxy from a planet killing weapon. We have her at gunpoint. Put a hot round through the back of her reflective helmet? Nope. Just lock her up somewhere convenient why we sneak off to finish our mission, no sense letting our high feelings get in the way of planting these bombs, no time for executions. We are above all that noise. Don't care how she was trying to end our lives.

2) The First Order has thousands of troops and likely thousands of ships. WTF are they doing in a slow speed chase with a few destroyers. Bring in another set of ships and blast the last few hundred rebels into space dust and then wash it down with a few cold ones on Mos Eisley? Nah, stay right behind them and keep firing. Create a pincer move and end your enemy. Why bother, where is the sport in using superior numbers. And have you never played fucking chess? Bringing your king to the front line before the enemy is dead is just stupid. And why not surround their ship and prevent anyone from coming or going from the lone ship that houses LITERALLY ALL of your enemies.

3) Convenient Rebel Bases. We are in deep space, running low on fuel with our enemy circling around. Lucky for us there is a base right here that is still stocked and heavily defended.

4) The First Order controls almost all of the galaxy, the last few hundred rebels are trapped in a hole with one entrance and exit. Surround the planet with superior forces and end the rebellion? Nah. A dozen walkers and a door blasting canon will suffice. Let us take them head on with an almost equal force. Need to be budget conscious and save our resources for the next few movies, what are they going to do, escape into space and spark a revolution?

I checked my watch a few times during this microwaved over crap. This is the Kingdom of Crystal Skulls of Star Wars movies.

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1. You're seriously complaining about a (somewhat) major character in a Star Wars movie having plot armor? I'm fully expecting her to survive and come back in Episode IX

2. I think you're over estimating the size of the first order. While a significant force, they're no where near the size of the Empire of the original trilogy. They seem to have focused more on a few bigger/better ships than thousands of relatively smaller ones. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the total size of their fleet was less than 50 ships Star Destroyer size or larger, whereas the Empire had tens of thousands of star destroyers. Why they don't jump a few of their ships to the other side of the system to head them off is a valid question, but two possible explanations are that:

  • They are chasing them into a gravity well where jumping to/emerging from hyperspace isn't possible (presence of Interdictor cruisers in Rebels cartoon confirms that gravity wells still prevent hyperspace travel)
  • The first order is toying with the Resistance the way we often saw Vader and the Emperor toy with opponents. Vader toyed with Luke at Bespin when he could have easily defeated him in a matter of seconds. This is made clear by how quickly he is able to (literally) disarm Luke after he lands a lucky shot to Vader's own arm. The Emperor likewise toys with the Rebels at Endor by ordering his fleet to not attack the rebel ships because he wanted to use their deaths as a lever to move Luke towards the Dark Side. Snoke may have had the same motivation since he had arranged the connection between Rey and Kylo and likely expected her to arrive and witness the end of the Resistance.

Also Snoke being present for the presumed death of the Resistance is no different than the Emperor wanting to be present for the end of the Rebellion in RotJ.

3. I'm assuming that the convenient Rebel base was their planned destination before they even knew the First Order had followed them. Further it wasn't really that well stocked, it just had a very strong door and the weapons that were there were either unusable or so antequated as to be almost useless.

4. Once again, I don't think the First Order controls as much of the Galaxy as you think, they're just mostly unopposed due to the destruction of the New Republic Fleet in TFA. Still, they seem to have deployed more walkers than the similarly sized fleet under Vader's command in ESB deployed against the Rebel base on Hoth. And again, it's not an almost equal force, the First Order has overwhelmingly superior firepower. The attempted attack using skim speeders is a desperation move to buy time, not an attempt to actually defeat the forces being brought to bear against them. Their speeders are getting picked off quite easily by the First Order and the attempt is so hopeless that Poe orders them to retreat.

I think you're over estimating the size of the first order. While a significant force, they're no where near the size of the Empire of the original trilogy.

From the opening crawl:

The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.

That's from The Last Jedi. We knew they destroyed the New Republic home worlds in TFA. Again, I think this speaks to the size of the First Order not being near the size of the Empire. The Empire already had control of the galaxy by the time we encounter them in ANH.

At the end of TLJ, the call was put out for help by the resistance, which no one seemed to answer. With the First Order destroying the New Republic, and really showing the superior firepower they had (if you pay attention to designs, all of the ships in the FO were militaristic advancements on previous technology focused on increased firepower) it would make sense the other planets were scared and probably had relied on the New Republic to protect them from the growing First Order.

Also, from TFA, the speech given by Hux was essentially a "coming out party" type of speech. If they were in control of the galaxy like the empire was, there would be no reason for that, and no reason to send "merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy".

That's from The Last Jedi.

My fault. For some reason I thought that was the movie we were discussing. /s


It's okay. You're allowed mistakes. /s

Finally saw it, and I must say I'm conflicted.

Things I liked:
- The dynamic between Rey and Kylo Ren. Honestly feel this is the best thing the movie has going for it. The back and forth between the two, each trying to convince the other, as well as the fact they both noticeably have good and evil inside themselves, etc. I felt like TLJ took this to the next level after TFA and I enjoyed it.

- Ship to ship combat. Honestly, there's a part of me that just loves big space battles, fighters zipping around everywhere, and giant war machines lumbering along. This is just as much of a part of Star Wars to me as the Jedi and lightsabers. Give more.

- Replacing old characters with new: so far, with the notable exception of Leia (Chewie hardly gets any screentime anyway) all of the original characters are gone. This is how it should be. I want a new story, with new characters. Not the adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia version 5.

Things I disliked:
- Uh, the plot??

Let's recap the worst sequence in the whole movie. Escape epic battle (this is good). Wind up in the self-proclaimed middle of nowhere. Suddenly, enemies! Strategy: run away for really long time (uhhh). Introduce new, strong leader female when Leia is hurt (this is good). She does nothing (uhhh). Send Finn and random new character off on desperate mission (okay).

Desperate mission involves looking for someone. Gets caught due to illegal parking (really??? You couldn't just say they were fugitives since they were known to be with the resistance or something??). Guy they were looking for, cool new character, shows up to the rescue (okay, this is fine. New characters are good). Proceed to have entirely pointless, random, and too lengthy horseback chase scene for what appears to be no purpose other than "look at the cool stunts/computer stuff Hollywood can do". Follow up with the second worst scene in the movie, Rose's "Free the Horses" moment (seriously, was there any point at all to the entire horse chase? Appeal to horse people? Tie in to random child at the end of the movie who now has a cereal box ring and can use the force?). They literally could have had them meet the codebreaker, he gets them out, the end. No horses required.

Meanwhile, new character female leader gets replaced due to doing nothing. Leia comes back from the dead, surprise, new female leader had a plan, land on random planet showed up in the self-proclaimed "middle of nowhere" and (surprise) had a rebel base on it! How nice! New leader just didn't tell anyone because...she didn't feel like it??

Then, escaping in ships. Enemy finds them, starts killing them. Everyone is upset, but just watched. Presumably this adds dramatic tension. Suddenly, new female leader (who was introduced in this portion of the movie) realizes she can sacrifice herself to save lives and destroy half the enemy fleet. Good thing she waited until half the resistance was dead. Goodbye, new female leader. We hardly knew you.

- The humor. Look, the original star wars had humor. But it was for the most part subtle, and took a backseat to the mood of the movie. But when you have every character seemingly required to make at least three witty one-liners or experience at least one humorous situation, it doesn't exactly make for a grand space-epic. Have humorous characters (like R2 and C3PO- not Jar Jar) but make it tasteful, and limit it. The amount of humor directors seem to want in movies nowadays, regardless of the intended tone of the story, is getting ridiculous.

Things I hated:


Seriously. Let's break it down. So far, they've killed off literally every other original story character. What purpose does Leia have in the movie? She basically gives a few commands, then is there to make dramatic, sad faces and express how many people have died. They had about 18 billion chances to kill her off in the movie, and even introduced a new female leader, just to kill off the new one. Really?

Ways they could have handled it instead of just keeping Leia around:
1) She dies when she should have, when the bridge was blown up. More on this later.

2) She takes the place of new female leader, staying behind. For goodness sakes, they even set it up this way, with her saying she's been through too much.

3) She stays behind at the rebel base, buying time for the new heroes of the resistance to escape.

I can only hope they have some epic plan for her in the third movie, that would make them constantly saving Leia actually worth it.

And now, the single worst part of the movie? Leia's "Iron Man" flight back onto the ruined bridge of her ship after being flash frozen in space. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Was. That.? Want to save her? Just have her not be on the bridge when it blew up. Or have Kylo, who was clearly hesitating because of her, use his force powers to save her. What is the purpose of showing her use her latent force powers to just zip around in space?

All in all when I think back on the movie, it just felt like they were trying to do way too much. Scenes felt like they were added to just show off, it didn't really flow well together, and characters just show up with no development or apparent purpose. That being said, of course I'll watch the next one. It's Star Wars.


Regarding Leia dying, the only problem they had was a logistical one. It was stated shortly after Carrie Fisher's death that she was supposed to have a "major role" in Episode IX. Since they had shot all of her scenes when she passed away, there was only so much they could do without re-shooting a large part of the movie, which at that point was done. They could have let her float out into space, and I would argue that would make sense. But then all the remaining scenes (after she wakes up) would have had to be re-shot.

So does it kind of suck in terms of the storyline? Yes. But I think they were also constrained logistically and also did not want to dishonor her memory. I'm curious to see how they deal with it going into Episode IX. Clearly, something is going to have to happen "off screen" in the storyline and they mention her death in the opening crawler, but it remains to be seen how the story is affected.

Regarding Leaia: did she see it coming? Did she have time to force-brace herself? I know I was surprised by the explosion (seeing Kyko Ren take his finger off the button). Did anyone notice if the bridge had time to react?

If KR did in fact protect her, it certainly looked like she was in control after "waking up" in space, unless she was as surprised as we were and had the sense of mind to use what the situation presented her with.


-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

Just managed to see it finally and here are my 2 cents:

I am conflicted as well.

It was visually and cinematically stunning.

Couldn't care less about the new force powers demonstrated - think it is cool to see the force being expanded. But I think Disney really missed an opportunity to send off Leia with the Mary Poppins moment.

Disappointed, but not distraught over the Snoke death. Would've been nice to see him developed more, especially to see a clash of the titans with Luke...but I'll get to that here in a bit.

I thought the slapstick humor degraded the gravitas of the Hux character and as a whole just didn't work. I would have; however, laughed my #!@ off if the porg had actually managed to light the lightsaber after Luke chucked it over the cliff.

However, I can't make a post long enough to cover all the head-scratching plot holes I picked out ... in just one viewing.

And I have to comment on this - "- Replacing old characters with new: so far, with the notable exception of Leia (Chewie hardly gets any screentime anyway) all of the original characters are gone. This is how it should be. I want a new story, with new characters. Not the adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia version 5."

- I completely disagree with this. This isn't spring cleaning.

Luke (especially), Han, and Leia are the reason we are still talking Star Wars today. Do they eventually need to pass on (if age alone)? Sure. But don't fundamentally change the most iconic character of them all, Luke, in doing so. I think the TLJ Luke character was completely out character and I can stay within Disney's accepted canon to do it.

Ep4: A young, impressionable Luke sees the only family he ever knew burned alive. Yet he manages to not only function, but remains idealistic (as opposed to going on a vengeful rampage)
Ep5: Luke is on top of the galaxy. He just blew up the death star, discovered that he is a remarkably gifted jedi student, has a new 'family'/sense of belonging in his friends, and has taken a leadership role (rogue squadron). Then he is baited, and recklessly charges into an obvious trap to save his friends...and Vader shatters his confidence by completely handling him like a child. And then he completely shatters his world by not only telling him he was his father, but telling him that his jedi idols lied to him. Did he go to the most unfindable place in the galaxty to lick his wounds? No. He manages to pick himself up, maintain his idealism (albeit with some sobering reality added to it) and grow wiser from it.
Ep6: Luke clings to the spark of good he felt in his father to the point of readily sacrificing himself in the singular hope of redeeming his father. And he succeeds.

All of this is to say that the Luke Skywalker character has been repeatedly built up as on of the most resilient characters in pop culture. So I have a hard time swallowing the part where he is prepared to kill his own nephew, in his sleep, because he's gotten the feeling that Ben Solo had been turned to the dark side. And Ben Solo hadn't done anything bad yet...seriously? He goes to the lengths he did to save the father that had done a LOT of bad stuff, yet he's ready to kill in cold blood his nephew who hadn't actually done anything bad yet? Sorry. That smacks to me of contrived drama for the sole sake of ... having drama.

And why do the OT characters have to be systematically killed off was quickly as Disney is doing so? (I guess it sucks to be Chewie in Episode 9) Why not have them in a mentoring role (and no, Luke wasn't mentoring anyone). It almost seems like Disney has no confidence that their new generation of characters can handle screen time with them. Why not have Luke save the day once? Rey is a compelling character, and one of my favorite parts of the movie was temporary Rey/Ren team up fight in the throne room. Great chemistry between two great characters.

How cool would it have been to have a Luke-Rey team up fight...?

I really hope they don't bring back Lando in Ep 9. I'd prefer to remember him the way he was.


I think the end game is Ray and Ren having a child. The old religions (Jedi and Sith) both have no romance rules. As Snoke says as Ren rised as he became 1 with the dark side, his equal rose on the good side. It is a pattern that will continue over and over again as is. So I'm thinking having one spouse on the good side and one spouse on the darkside will equal complete balance of the force finally! Writing there own destiny as Ren has said there is no Sith no Jedi just them.


If y'all want to REALLY know what happened (& is currently happening) with the Star Wars franchise, watch this:

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I enjoyed the movie, largely because I take it for entertainment, and don't try to pick it apart. I think every criticism on here is valid, and could think of many more if I wanted to, but that does not make me enjoy the experience more, so I don't do it. I do enjoy reflecting on the way the reception of Star Wars has changed from when we were all mezmorized by the special effects to more of a focus on story, plot, etc., and appriciate all the responses.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

So just saw the movie the other week and these comments I agree with for the most part I think but honestly TL;DR.

For me it was "...ehhh...."

Agree with the Snopes lack of development. Built up big and then off'd like it was nothing. Same with the head storm trooper chick. She died way too easily and no way Breanne of Tark goes down that easily. I mean she defeated the Hound.

Leia surviving in space after surviving the explosion of the very bridge she was sitting on??? I mean, kill her or don't but at least make it good. Solo's death was way better in TFA.

Luke's bit was great at the end. I did enjoy that. That whole sequence with Luke at the end was probably my favorite part of the movie. Other than that it was ok. Definitely no one of my favorites.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

finally came out here.

I felt I watched a 2.5 hour movie for 15 minutes of really good Star Wars.

Acting was good to great. The writing was bad. The plot was worse.

won't focus too much on what has been said.

I disagree with most here I guess. I hated the way Luke was used in this movie except for the fight (that wasn't a fight) with Ren. Honestly, bringing back Mark Hammill for this type of arc was a complete waste except for that one scene. He was in TFA for 10 seconds. It was a powerful moment and then it opens in TLJ where he takes the light saber and then throws it over his shoulder. LAME.

Then Luke is somehow the whiny little bitch he was at the start of his arc up until the last scene where he uses so much of his force power he ghosts himself. LAME. For fuck sake he's THE Luke Skywalker, the original New Hope. I read an interview just after the movie where the director said Luke's death scene was about creating hope and building a legend. He already is a legend. GTFO.

How about Luke sees Rey as the balance. He is reluctant to train her, in a non-whiny way, but his sister's danger forces him to act. And instead of staying on the island like a punk bitch he raises his x-wing from the water and flies to save her, or gets his ass on the Falcon.

More LAME. Rey's plan is to hand herself over to Snoke in hopes to turn Ren to good. Yeah Snoke dies (lame) and there was a good fight scene. But why wouldn't Snoke just kill her? He wants to know where Luke is? Why? Luke is being a punk ass bitch on his island. Hasn't been around for ages. Why would Snoke give a shit about him. Dumb... just dumb. And then Snoke dies with almost no effort and zero character development to know anything about him. Lame.

more lame.
Poe puts Hux on hold. For fuck's sake. right out the gate this set the tone.

Casino scene. Pointless. Rose teaches Finn that rich people do bad things to poor people. is this a lesson he really needs to learn? wasn't he taken as a child by the First Order to do bad things?

Rose. I am fine with actress. She did a good job with her scenes. But entire character was unnecessary save to give Finn a love interest now that there is some force awakenings going on between Rei and Ren.

The captain goes down with the ship. IF your plan is to save everyone by escaping to the long forgotten planet nearby (forgetting the physics/fuel issue noted by others) then launch the damn ships while turning about and lightspeed through Snokes ship as a planned maneuver.

Hangars and Hangars full of Tie Fighters, Tie Bombers and the like. Ok, I'll buy the concept that the light cruiser can keep just out of reach of the larger destroyers and Snokes massive ship. But what has been consistent in EVERY Star Wars movie is that the small attack ships are faster. There is no way those ships don't have enough Tie Fighters and Bombers to run up and destroy the Rebels. Hux calls Ren back because the destroyers can't cover them at that distance. BULLSHIT. Hux would send every last Tie Fighter out to attack them. The rebels only had a few ships and they were running out of fuel.

Benecio's character. IF he could get out of that jail cell so easily then why was he there? You had 2.5 hours of movie. How about instead of teaching Finn that poor people get shit on, you show a scene where del Toro's character is introduced that makes sense for him to be in the jail with the very people that need him. I did like the double cross though. I think he is the new Lando though, not Han.

The Princess of Power. Yeah, Leia has force powers but here supergirl flight scene was bad... just bad. I am cool with her surviving deep space, but would have loved to see Poe go out and rescue her somehow because he knows she can. With all this tech they never developed a space suit with a jet pack? Hello, mandalorians anyone....

This movie, though visual great and acting wonderful, is a tragedy of a plot. Very glad Johnson is not writing the last film. I hope he is not involved at all. Get Gareth Edwards to come finish this.

Overall, very bad. I would put this above Episode 1 but not by much.

you sir...are correct!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Just saw it again. Still loved it. Picked up on little details that I missed the first time. Ranking it 4th in my Star Wars hierarchy I think.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I've seen it 3X, and I've liked it better with each viewing. My personal rankings:

1. Empire (it's like Jordan at this point - Lebron might actually be better but anyone who was around for MJ would never agree)
2. Ep 4
3. Last Jedi
4. Rogue One
6. Force Awakens
7. Ep 3 (the gap between TFA and RotS is drillfield big)
8. Ep 1
9. Ep 2 (rewatched this one recently with my 9 YO and twin 7YOs, and hoo boy this movie sucks)

Saw Star Wars last night. Full disclosure, I think I saw the original trilogy, episode 1, and now episode 8. I had to read a synopsis of the force awakens before going.

Anyway...you know the ridiculous scene with Luke Skywalker on the island, and he milks that ridiculous walrus like creature and drinks the milk, and then he jumps the canyon and spear fishes that massive fish from 200 ft up on the face of the cliff...

All I could think was Dos XX has a great opportunity for a Super Bowl commercial...

Dos XX, starring Zack Galifinakis as Luke Skywalker, He once drank the milk of a (whatever that creature was), he once spear fished from the face of (Whatever cliff/island that was), he once saved the resistance from the dark side of the Force, He is the most interesting man in the Galaxy.

"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips