Liberty granted waiver to move to FBS as Independent.

Honestly never I'd see the day, but the NCAA knew a prolonged legal battle over the conference invitation requirement would be a risk. And Liberty has the resources to fight the battle. So here we are with a new, lets say hardliner version of Notre Dame in the offing. FBS schedule in 2018, Bowl eligible in 2019.

Will be interesting to see how they do, resources for days, and have hired the recently fired Baylor AD. But without the location advantage that ODU had during the transition. Gill isnt exactly a proven FBS winner, even though Beamer himself probably couldnt do much to help KU after their nosedive post Mangino. And we saw how they stacked up this year vs a good Hokie squad, so the talent needs an upgrade if they want to compete.

Big South Statement

Berman and Brett McMurphy at ESPn also had this early.

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How the hell they going to find 5-6 other FBS teams willing to travel to Lynchburg to play? Also Whit needs to reduce their payments now.

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Realistically, they're probably looking for 4-5 home games per year for the first few years, to get a cash injection. It shouldn't be impossible to fill a schedule. I bet Tech will play them fairly regularly. I could see Wake Forest being a regular opponent, being close by and also religiously affiliated. Lots of regional recently-added or soon-to-be-added FBS teams would likely be willing to do home and homes with them, like Appy State, Coastal Carolina, ODU and Georgia State/Southern. I think they'll be fine, so long as they're willing to accept 2-for-1 deals with ACC teams and accept that they won't always get 6 home games per year.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

I bet Tech will play them fairly regularly.

I swear I'll knock someone's head off

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

They'll be lucky to get 2 for 1 deals with teams like temple and akron. I can't see anyone beside a Virginia school agreeing to play there

West Virginian by birth, Hokie by choice

If Whit agrees to a home game at Liberty I will drive to Blacksburg to get my Hokie Club refund. Also why would a new FBS team in a conference agree to a non payment away game? They only have a few opening on their schedule why go there and not say Tech and make a bigger paycheck?

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Why would they do it? I see two reasons: First, those teams still need to get to 6 wins to make a bowl game. If they schedule nothing but P-5 teams on their non-conference slate, there's little margin for error in conference play. Second, Liberty seems to have pretty deep pockets. While I doubt they'll be able to pay as much as Alabama or OSU, I suspect they'll be able to pony up enough dough to get someone to come play.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

But why would they play an away game? For example CCU this year is playing 2 OOC away games one against P5 team and another against a team they should beat. Why would these low G5 or P5 teams plays at Liberty? When Liberty can't pay low G5 teams to take a loss. Liberty will have to find 5-6 of these schools willing to play there every year.

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VT should never play Liberty in a regular season football game

VT should never play Liberty

You could've just stopped there.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Well I need to eat crow. Because so far Liberty has gotten Syracuse and LOLUVA to agree to play games AT Liberty. I just don't see why any P5 AD would agree to that.

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currying favor with an up and coming D1 AD for when they get booted from the P5 and have to beg their way into a G5 conference?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors).

How much is loluva getting paid to go lose to a D1 school?

ETA: I was trying to make a joke about loluva being the school that gets paid to go lose a guarantee game. a la what Richmond was supposed to do at lane north this last season.

For those of you who haven't Keyed Up yet, please do so.
-OkieHokie

How much is loluva getting paid paying to go lose to a D1 school?

FTFY

Run to Win. Pass To Score

Liberty is moving up to FBS.

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I'd give UVa some chance of beating Liberty, and they need a lot six of those to add up to a bowl game.

It's not like VT hasn't scheduled Liberty.

Yes, but never at Liberty. UVA and Syracuse both have.

I just don't see why any P5 AD would agree to that.

The way I see it, none of them have

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Curious - why do you see this as being different than agreeing to play a game at Western Michigan, Marshall, ECU, ODU, etc? Especially when you consider both Cuse and UVA got a 2 for 1.

Because none of those are 1st year FBS teams.

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Neither Syracuse nor UVA is playing at Liberty in their first year as a FBS team. Syracuse is playing there in 2019 (year 2) and UVA is playing there in 2027 (year 10).

2019 is the first year Liberty will be a full FBS member.

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I think we're splitting hairs here- 2018 is Liberty's first year in FBS but they are considered "provisional" (i.e. not bowl eligible) until 2019.

I just don't see a reason to be surprised Liberty could get 2 for 1 deals with P5 teams. Virtually any P5 team would take that deal with any FBS team because it gives the P5 team an extra home game without a return trip somewhere.

Personally I find this much less surprising than Tech agreeing to an 8-year even home & home series with ODU back when ODU was in the process of moving up to FBS. That was a terrible deal for Tech given our negotiating leverage.

How many P5 teams travel to play at lower tier FBS teams that aren't A) recruiting/ alum hotbed B) some kind of connection either through history or AD/Coach connection? Because things like Miami playing AT App State last year are a rare occurrence in my mind.

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Why not? I mean, you want a cupcake and already have an FCS school on the schedule. Scheduling teams like Liberty are great for teams like NCST who are looking for the path of least resistance to 6 qualifying wins. Of course, if this backfires it's bad, but I think in this day and age, anything better than a home-and-home with a lesser team will draw some interest. As others have said, 2-for-1 is a good deal and it lets ADs have some freedom with that extra game on the schedule every 4 years (as opposed to two home-and-homes).

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Miami played at FAU in 2015, App State in 2016, and is playing at Arkansas State this season.

Stanford, Rutgers, Duke, and Wake Forest have all played at Army in recent seasons.

It's probably more common than you realize. The biggest hindrance isn't a P5 program balking at getting a 2 for 1 deal; it's being able to find a FBS team willing to give you 2 home games for only 1 in return.

Clearly Army, Navy and Air Force are special. So Miami doing stupid crap and going to these low level FBS schools.

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We played at Marshall a few years ago and had a contract to play at Ohio but they backed out. We play at ECU every other year (ECU is in a better conference but hard to say they're better than App State or Arkansas State). We are about to add ODU (which we can say is a recruiting thing but we also didn't get a 2 for 1).

Ole Miss played at Memphis 2 years ago (scheduled when Memphis was potentially the worst FBS school in the country)

This year some P5 teams playing road games at lower level FBS teams include: Vandy @ MTSU, BC @ NIU, Kentucky @ Southern Miss, Miami @ Ark State, Stanford @ San Diego St, Kansas @ Ohio, UNC @ ODU

Maybe I'm just taking crazy pills but do you see a 1&1 with ECU as making more sense than a 2&1 with Liberty?

Marshall was a 2 for 1 deal.

It's Time to go to Work

Yep - HF's feeling is a P5 team should never play an away game at a lower level FBS team (even if its 2-1), I was just pointing out we've done it a good bit ourselves.

Yes every day of the week. ECU has been an FBS school since the beginning and has had a football team since the 1930's, has won bowl games and has a stadium that seats over 50,000. Whereas Liberty will be in year 1 of full FBS membership, hasn't played a single bowl game, stadium seats under 20,000.

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Whereas Liberty will be in year 1 of full FBS membership, hasn't played a single bowl game, stadium seats under 20,000.

which is why they are offering 2-for-1 deals instead of home-and-home-until-the-heat-death-of-the-universe deals.

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home-and-home-until-the-heat-death-of-the-universe deals

Shoutout to hokie07ME for helping me meet my existential dread quota for the day.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Syracuse and UVa are used to playing in front of fewer than 20k fans already, aren't they? Seems like a reasonable fit.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

The official stadium capacity is 19,200 but the Attendance record is 22,551 vs Montana in 2015 and there have been a couple other games where attendance exceeded 20,000. There are currently plans to expand the stadium to 30,000 by completing a horseshoe around the south end zone and adding mid decks. Long term plans have the stadium eventually adding upper decks to reach approximately 60,000 capacity (no idea where they plan on having parking for that many people though).

In regards to ODU, we started with a 2 and 1, and then added 4 more games shortly thereafter.

The fault in that is that we should've done a second 2 and 1 instead of a 2 and 2.

True- thanks for correcting the full history on how it was setup.

I know they have money, but I just don't see this working out well for them. Being an independent works great for Notre Dame. Liberty is not Notre Dame.

Liberty is not Notre Dame.

Try telling that to Falwell.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Try telling that to Falwell.

Like he listens to things with empirical evidence.

This is exactly why I said that.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

My favorite line in the article:

Liberty hopes to establish an Eastern identity, playing schools like William & Mary and Virginia, and then move up to the big names.

He's no good to me dead.

The article is from October 21, 1989..... so they have been working on the slow route.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Yea that confused me for a hot second

I swear to drunk, I'm not God

I am so proud and excited for my old University's decision making lately. It's been getting boring watch the dominance of winning so many FCS championships! /s

via GIPHY

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

They can't even win the Big South over Charleston Southern - I don't see this working out very well for them.

I mean, hell, the money's obviously there, but even recruits don't like foreseeing a future as a punching bag for the Big Boys if they have offers elsewhere.

“I’ve been here 23 years and he’s arguably the best player in college football in my time. It would be hard to name another player who had more impact on the game than what Corey Moore had that season.” - Bud Foster

3rd best FBS team in the Commonwealth.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

you forgot LOLUVA......

Nope your right, I see LOLUVA behind them in 4th.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Let's see:
1. VT
2. JMU
3. Richmond
4. ODU
5. William and Mary
6. Liberty
7. Virginia State
8. Virginia Union
9. Norfolk State
10. Hampton
11. VMI
12. Randolph Macon
13. Emory and Henry
14. Christopher Newport
15. Bridgewater
16. Washington and Lee
17. Bluefield
18. Radford
19. VCU
20. Phoebus High
21. Averett
23. Ferrum
24. ECPI
25. Virginia International
26. LOLUVA (Can't even make top 25 in it's own state)

YOU forgot most high schools in the tidewater region

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Also, Phoebus has really fallen off a bit, what with being dropkicked to 3A from 5A with the recent realignment. Blacksburg High School knocked Phoebus out of the playoffs this year (though Blacksburg did go on to win the state championship, it was a huge surprise as their 5-5 record was good for the 10 seed out of the 25-team "3A West" region, 16 of whom made it to the playoffs)

I dont pay as much attention to VHSL or VIS football as I used to, and when i last did Phoebus was a power.

the more i scrolled down the funnier it got.

Let's see:

you forgot loluva-wise
"The Other Cavaliers"

Where is Click?!

My friends that are Hampden-Sydney alums might be upset to be left off your list.........

They could be top 20 at something!

You forgot VCU

No you didn't

What about Hollins, Sweet Briar, Roanoke College, and Shenandoah?

'07 Mechanical Engineering

“It’s not a date, where you need to like somebody. It’s a get-after-it session is what it is.”
-Frank Beamer

Fuck Ian McCall.

Edit: for context I'm going to repost my following comment from a different thread.

I would like to take a moment to remind everyone that Liberty University gave Ian McCaw a job. He was Baylor's athletic director that resigned after being sanctioned and placed on probation. This is a top down scandal and he got out free and came to our state of VA to be an athletic director again.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

I was going to say... They're led by people who have no problems throwing away any moral or legal responsibility to be successful. Wouldn't be surprised if they are a really good program in 10 years in football and basketball only to have everything exposed a couple years later

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Does this boost our 2020 strength of schedule? Now that we have 12 FBS games...

Somewhat related... The most recent episode of Podcast Ain't Played Nobody (Bill Conally and Steven Godfrey) spent 15-20 minute discussing how Georgia Southern was the guinea pig team/case study for every FCS team with FBS aspirations.

If anyone's interested, here's the link, sort of starts at 22 minutes:

Twitter me

Great name for a college football podcast

That was..fast

Where is Click?!

That made me laugh so hard, thousand legs to you

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

Liberty is trying to be Baylor East Coast, I wonder how many Title IX violations they are going to get in the next few years. And if they will be lucky enough to have a Chip and Joanna Gaines of their own.

.....I would love to have my own Joanna Gaines as well.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Me as well.

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I wouldnt mind Chip......

via GIPHY

to build my house!

via GIPHY

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

I wouldnt mind Chip.....

OK Garage I can appreciate your mancrush but look at the pic again. Look AT It!

The guy is an UBERDORK! And not in a good way like dork magic. The binocs are the sure sign. He'd scream like a prom queen!

Where is Click?!

Yeah, I need someone to decorate my house too.

Wait, am I doing this right?

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Do you like

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Is Joanna going to be there to oversee the install?

If so, give me all the shiplap.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

that's not even real shiplap

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Are there binocular thieves running all around Baylor's stadium? Those are some serious straps for what appear to be ordinary binoculars. One strap around the 'ol neck should be sufficient here.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

These schools moving (or trying to move into) the FBS division now under the notion they're going to reap the $$ and free marketing are way too to the party and are simply pissing away money. The gap between the haves and the have-nots - even within the FBS division - is only going to widen in the coming years, not narrow.

And who is going to pay for this delusional ambition (and bolstering of administrator resumes)? Their current and future student bodies.

Yeah, but Liberty is hemorrhaging money right now. Their online classes have approximately 80,000 students. As a result they are having problems putting that much money back into the school as they are legally required to do. Going to division 1 sports will let them spend money on coaches, facilities, scholarships, etc that they couldn't legally do before.

One little side part, Jerry Falwell Sr wanted Liberty to go do Division 1 in sports. His son could also just be trying to honor one of his dad's last wishes.

currently around 95,000 online students alone over 110,00 total. I worked there for 4 years and the amount of pure profit they are bringing in from just one class alone is crazy. Liberty has nothing to worry about financially except for how to spend it as fast as they get it.

This is just some of what is on the docket for upgrades. There are rumors of more down the road but the place is crazy. The indoor football facility is going to be beautiful.

http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/?PID=27192

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Like I said, they are hemorrhaging money right now. A nice new stadium with associated facilities should eat at least a couple years of their money surplus.

they are hemorrhaging money right now

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

Why do they have a warehouse in FarmVille?

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Oh good, then they can do without a check from us in 2020

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

Shouldn't the title of this thread be Liberty given liberty to move to FBS?

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Take your damn leg...

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

Full disclosure: I played football there in the early 80s and my daughter graduated from there May 13 with a BSN. Is going to work at Corillian (?) in Roanoke. We went there on our way back to Ohio. Impressive place.

I understand the - I don't want to call it - rivalry - because it isn't, but neighborly tension between VT and Liberty. At graduation they announced the football schedule and VT was on there, along with Auburn, NC State, Rutgers, WF, Ole Miss, and some name but lesser programs.

I toured the not-yet-completed indoor practice facility. Incredible - like all of the other buildings there. They certainly are building the infrastructure for an FBS program. It's really remarkable the difference in the campus now and 35 years ago.

There were 18K+ graduates a few weeks ago - about 8800 bachelors and another 8K masters, 1K doctorates and 1200 associates. Of course, a significant part of the masters degrees came from the online program. Took 1 1/2 hours for them to march in. Imagine hearing, "Da, da, da, da, da, da... da, da-da-da, da..." for 90 min. Torture. Really incredible sight tho. Graduates covered most of the football field and 50K in the stands - some of that to see the POTUS.

I was confused about why they would bring the Baylor AD in and expose themselves to the baggage that came with him, but I guess they figured he could get them transitioned to FBS. We will have to see how that works out. Better not have any Title IX issues.

When I played there, the facilities were horrible, and the old man used to talk about Liberty being the "Notre Dame" for evangelical kids - academically and athletically. I used to kind of giggle at that. I did get a really good education there (proven out when I completed my graduate studies at a B1G school), but competing on that level in football wasn't within my ability to imagine. And I'm still not sure it can be done, although they are way closer now than they were then. They have the facilities, but now it will be a matter of being able to draw the talent there. I'm not sure about how that will go. It will be interesting to see.

I talked to JF Jr. 5 years ago when I took my daughter down there for orientation. We had common friends when I was there. Several of his best friends were in my dorm. Jr was a rebel and prodigal back then. I never really liked him. We were both southerners, but I was from the Ky hillbilly wing, and I always sensed he was more from the arrogant, Old South, aristocratic wing. But I can't deny what he has done there. He took the university from 8 million in the red to a billion dollar endowment in about 10 years. The guy is smart, esp with money, whether I personally like him or not. So, I'm not betting against him on this football thing, but I think it's a really, really hard thing to do - and I think there will be a lot of temptation to take players they shouldn't to help them make the leap.

FWIW

Behind an Amish buggy going up a long, curvy hill

Thats a great post and an awesome perspective, especially the fact that the size of their Commencement easily matches Tech.

They may be the but of many jokes or scorn in many circles from leaderships' stances on sensitive topics, to degree mills and churning out online degrees for the military, to codes of conduct, hiring the Baylor guy, etc.

But what they are doing as a school and program is real, and it is ignored or taken lightly especially by other Virginia schools at their peril.

wondered why you were hearing the Imperial march for 1.5 hours... realized I misread the "tune"

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

meh, still perfectly appropriate.

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I don't know, man. They played us pretty well in last year's opener, and I was impressed by their facilities as I was driving through the Lynchburg area recently. Apparently, they have the money, and should shortly have the necessary facilities to compete. Throw in a couple upset wins against teams that might be taking them lightly - better not be against us, though - and they'll be on everybody's FBS radar, whether we like it or not.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"..because anytime you go upside a man's head, or a woman's, they have a tendency to blink their eyes.." - Deacon Jones

I really hope not. Not a big fan of Falwell and especially not a big fan of Ian McCaw

Some pretty crazy facilities and the leadership that will go as far as it takes. Might take a while but seems like they have the infrastructure.

I'm surprised so many people seem shocked by the facilities and budget of Falwell U. They've been bilking people in the name of religion for years, took that money and invested it in real estate all over town, and aggressively push their brand to bring in donations. They're using the same playbook as the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. But instead of funding crusades, they're spending their money on athletics and a cocktower.

So it's OK for you to openly hate on Baptists and Catholics on a sports website that explicitly prohibits political and religious rhetoric? Nice.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, TKPC#490, One of us!

To be clear, the above was not intended to "hate on" any religious group. You likely take issue with the term "bilking," but that is not directed at any broad group, and certainly not for religious reasons. I do take serious issue with the practice of certain individuals, the Falwells included, monetizing faith. The comparison to historical facts regarding the Catholic Church is an apt one. The Falwells got rich by selling Jesus, and they're quite good at it. That's relevant to the discussion at hand, since that's how they're financing their expansion. I apologize if those facts upset you, and I really didn't mean for my presentation of them to target anyone's beliefs.

Regardless of your intentions the rule isn't about being respectful or not, rather it simply states "Don't discuss politics or religion."

I take no offense at your comments (I don't offend easily) but discussions like this are never going to end well.

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

I know the guidelines, and I'm careful about them. And I would, again, point out that I wasn't discussing religion at all. I was commenting on the business practices of entities that just happen to make their money by exploiting religion, and cited historical fact to draw an analogy. This sort of issue has come up on this site before, where a discussion may be tangentially related to an offlimits subject. Based on how previous comments have been treated, I'd contend that the above is well within community guidelines. If the moderator feels differently, he will rule accordingly.

It's certainly treads a fine line to the point that it's very debatable.

Honestly it doesn't bother me either way but like I mentioned topics like this generally don't end well.

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

I guess what it really comes down to is: Can we bash Duke and UVA for their elitism? And the University of Miami and Florida State for recruiting criminals? And West Virginia for having inbred couch-burning fans. But we aren't allowed to bash Liberty for being funded by a televangelist?

(Disclaimer: the "criminals" and "inbred" descriptions were just to make a point. The "elitism" and "couch-burning" comments are statements of fact.)

Lol this completely and overwhelmingly misses my point. Bashing or not bashing is not the issue. Getting into religious related issues is. Besides like I have said multiple times, topics like this don't end well and this subthread has already proved that.

Alright I'm going to go see if I can find some pointless recruiting info to over analyze...

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

Certainly perked my ears up, though. My strong feelings on this topic will go unexpressed. Some days, even a half hearted bar fight will get attention.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Your "facts" are your opinions sir.
Fact: Liberty University sells education, let the buyer beware if they are bilking anyone.
Fact: Jerry Falwell was a Baptist pastor.
Fact: Pastors across many faiths encourage their congregations to support the work of their churches with VOLUNTARY donations.
Fact: Your use of the term "selling Jesus" is inflammatory and biased.

Fact: I will not make any further comments since this is not what TKP is for, and I wish you and all other veterans a wonderful and rewarding Memorial Day.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, TKPC#490, One of us!

Fact: He was a televangelist, and aggressively sought donations.
Fact: Jerry Falwell died with a personal net worth of $10 million dollars.
Conclusion: The Falwell fortune is directly tied to religion, specifically by pocketing donations from people almost certainly not as well off as they were. Ergo, selling Jesus. For personal gain. Just like the verifiable corruption of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, which led to the Reformation.

Why are we discussing religion, again?

I'm not even seeing a point related to sports (or anything else) here.

When your whole point is "I don't like that guy", and that guy is a religious or political figure, I don't see why that discussion would take place here.

I get that it's off-season, and there isn't so much material related to VT sports to discuss.

We are not discussing religion. We are discussing the financing of Liberty's athletic program, which, tangentially, connects to religion. But again, we're solely talking about the money. Though to be fair, I figured any subthread from my comment would be centered on making fun of the giant penis they're building in the center of campus.

Oh, you mean the eye of Sauron?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors).

somebody please post a pic of this

I swear to drunk, I'm not God

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors).

hmm yea looks like gondor will need to call for aid

I swear to drunk, I'm not God

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

Even though I'm an alumni I had some disagreements with Dr. Falwell and probably even more so with Jerry, Jr. That said I think that he has been tremendously mis-characterized by the media (partially because he had a tendency to say outrageous things and partially because he was sometimes quoted out of context). I wouldn't like the individual he was personified as on TV, but the individual that I got to know through his usually weekly messages to the student body and stories from others who knew him personally isn't the person that I usually saw portrayed on TV. You don't even have to take my word for it, Larry Flynt said the same thing about him, that after getting to know him he realized that he was sincere and wasn't just in it for money:

Further keep in mind that Falwell had a little over 50 years to accumulate $10 Million. Dividing $10 Million by the 51 years from the founding of TRBC to his death amounts to a little less than $200,000 accumulated after expenses each year (and the biggest expense most of us have, our house, contributes to our net worth). While this is certainly a lot for someone to bring in just from pastoring a church, keep in mind that as pointed out above he came from a family that was already well off, that he was the Chancellor and President of a university for 36 years of those years, and that he also authored many books that would have brought in additional income.

Well, technically the Falwell family made their first fortune bootlegging during prohibition, but yes, they have done quite well for themselves since turning to televangelism and running Liberty.

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I did not know that. Bit ironic.

Give the people what they want. There's a sucker born every minute. Making money is a time honored tradition, and the saints and scoundrels alike have profited from the prospect. It is no revelation that religion is often used to fleece the flock. Caveat emptor, regardless of the product, and make no mistake, Jesus or God in general, have been exploited for that purpose. Applying it to Liberty is controversial, for sure, but not surprising.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Round these parts (Lynchburg) it's viewed as a redemption story. Turning from the devils drink and using evil money for good.

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I don't think it's hating on any religious group, more specifically pointing some hate towards the Falwells, which does seem apropros to the topic as the business model in question is a direct factor in how they are building the program.

Agreed but still #1. It still crosses into the realm is discussing religion (hating on or not), #2. It does nothing to contribute to the discussion surrounding Liberty's football program and its implications on the NCAA, and #3 as a point of wisdom controversial topics like this never end well.

All in all I'm not mad, nor does it bother me, but I just think it's a really bad idea for the above reasons.

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

What brand of cleats does Liberty wear? /s

Wow. Off the rails.

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

What is it they say? Don't talk about politics or religion in polite company? Lol.

It's hard to talk about Jerry Falwell without those elements because he mixed them himself - and when you do that, in the way he did it, you are going to draw some strong negativity.

But I will talk about the man. I seriously doubt Jerry had a personal fortune as high as cited - but I'm open to evidence to the contrary. My gut says that there is some confusion with the personal, ministry, and university here.

Jr told me 5 years ago that it would be Monday and a 2 million dollar payroll would be due on Fri and they didn't have it. His dad would spend an hour praying and another hour on the phone and they were always able to pay their bills, but Jr said he couldn't do business like that. Not enough faith. Lol.

Jerry believed everything he said. If nothing, he was sincere. When wrong, he was sincerely wrong. He wasn't ever trying to deceive or defraud anyone.

Whenever I hear someone say that they hated the man, I know that person never spent 5 minutes with him. That man loved people - esp his enemies. People like Larry Flynt, Ted Kennedy, and Jesse Jackson didn't agree with him on anything but all professed affection for him personally.

But there was no way to know that thru his public persona. He incited controversy in many instances, and had some notorious foot in mouth moments. So, it's natural that he would attract many who don't really know who he was but feel justified in projecting their own worst caricatures on him.

Behind an Amish buggy going up a long, curvy hill

Fair enough. But caricatures rely on a strong dose of what is, coupled with an exaggeration of prominent features. One didn't necessarily have to know the man to see them, no projection required. I met him and in that brief encounter, found him to be pompous and arrogant, but that doesn't mean that others didn't have different experiences with him. Regardless, even if I professed love for the fellow, I don't want us to be playing Liberty, or ODU for that matter. No win for us either way. Of course, I also feel that way about JMU or even ECU, but scheduling is way above my pay grade.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Oh yeah. Caricatures are just exaggerations of perception and/or reality. If based on a bias, it's good fodder for labeling, but even better, if it is based on something real, it has longer legs before it becomes an unfair distortion.

He had some PT Barnum in him, for sure. Drawing attention, being provocative, etc. - and that's where the "charlatan" accusation comes from. He had some southern aristocracy in him as well, but I saw that more in his family than I did him. You throw that into a mixture of politics and religion, you get all the people who are atheist, anti-organized religion, anti-evangelical, and anti-Southern Baptist and then you rile up everyone left of center, you are going to get the kind of opposition he got. I guess what I'm saying is that I understand the negative perception among those who consider themselves his enemies - and I'm saying he contributed to it. At the same time, some of it is unfair distortion IMO - and it is definitely not balanced in that it creates this guy who has all the negative traits they perceive, and none of the great good others knew about the man.

But I will take the hint and move toward football. It's not in VT's interest to play Liberty. If they aren't any good, it doesn't do anything to help the Hokies with the playoff committee. If they are good, it could be a loss that really hurts in a lot of ways, but especially national perception and recruiting.

But if we assume that Liberty becomes competitive and are, say, a top 40 team, there would be a lot of in-state pressure to play that game. L'ville didn't want to play UK in hoops for 20 years, and I think the Ky legislature passed a law requiring it! Lol. But it would make sense for two schools that little distance apart to create a series like that. But right now, Liberty has a long way to go to get things to that point.

Behind an Amish buggy going up a long, curvy hill

So taking this conversion back to the start. How do you think Liberty will do on the W/L column and since they clearly are not having trouble scheduling outside this year do you see other P5 teams willing to play at Liberty?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I think they will do fine in a couple of years. I would not be surprised in the least to see them with a better W/L than UVA soon.

They will still take their lumps from the P5 schools they play consistently, but I see no reason, especially given the financial support, that they could not be a high end team in a low end FBS conference.

As I was mentioning further up in the comments, Liberty won't have any problem getting P5 teams to come to Lynchburg if they are offering 2 for 1. Hardly any school would turn that down. To move beyond that, they'll need to start having some success at the FBS level. I don't see a reason that can't happen though since they have the money to build great facilities, recruit, and pay for a premium coach. If Gill doesn't get them moving in the right direction this year, don't be surprised when Liberty dumps him and makes a splash hire by overpaying to get a coach better than you'd think they can land.

Btw - on the coaching thing - one name to file away (and realize I will prob get laughed at for this, but seriously): Les Miles

I would bet a good portion of LU's endowment that Gill's replacement would/will be Art Briles.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Then Whit needs to remove VT from all sports competitions with them. It will be a hostile and unsafe environment for Tech female student athletes.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I think Whit should do that regardless.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Absolutely, after their hire of that AD who really should have a show-clause...

Yeah, nah. No need to have them on the schedule.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I think we should have a scrub level regional school on our schedule every year in addition to LOLUVa (ECU, JMU, Liberty, ODU, Richmond, W&M). Especially if LOLUVa does the same. Odds are, we will beat them most of the time and LOLUVa will lose to them most of the time and that's one more thing we can rub in their faces, err, use when recruiting local talent.

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Don't we already have ECU scheduled until the end of days?

I'm OK with having one school from that list every year, just not more than one of them, and preferably not the same one every year.

Agreed. My ideal schedule is 9 ACC games, one from afore mentioned list, one FCS and one P5. Possibly sub out the 9th ACC game with a marquee P5 game.

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Once we get to 2020, our upcoming scheds mostly fit that description. I too would prefer more variety among the G5 teams we play, rather than ODU/ECU almost every year

2018 - 8 ACC, 1 P5, 2 G5, 1 FCS
2019 - 8 ACC, 1 P5, 2 G5, 1 FCS
2020 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 1 G5, 1 FBS Independent
2021 - 8 ACC, 3 P5, 1 FCS
2022 - 8 ACC, 1 P5, 2 G5, 1 TBD
2023 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 G5
2024 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 G5
2025 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 G5
2026 - 8 ACC, 1 P5, 3 TBD
2027 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 TBD
2028 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 TBD
2029 - 8 ACC, 2 P5, 2 TBD

Did I read correctly that Liberty will play New Mexico State twice in the same season in?

This says more about New Mexico State than Liberty

They'd be ignorant to do that...

LETS GOOOO

Relevant to the standing of Liberty amongst other VA schools. If you don't get it, look beyond number 10, like way beyond.

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I will have to show this to my dad. We recently had a conversation about a friend's son that is beginning the recruiting process and he was telling me about which schools are looking at him. He mentioned Liberty. I scoffed. He said, "What? Liberty's a good school." I scoffed louder.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

How does W+L and UofR get the nod over schools like Tech and UVA?

class size

class size and a tradition of excellence

class size, a tradition of excellence, and a strong network of $$ alums

Not sure how recent this is seeing that they have sweetbriar at 12 and that's not a school anymore

students and alumni petitioned to keep it open. A judge and attorney general stepped in to keep it open. The board was canned and replaced by people who actually wanted it to stay open and they are receiving record numbers of donations to stay financially viable.

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