OT: UNC has no shame, it's official

In the latest installment of the UNC academic fraud scandal, UNC has refused a public records request by a local CBS affiliate claiming...wait for it...that they are not a university, but a public law enforcement agency and therefore must be compelled by a court order to disclose information.

Story Here.

Just when you think they've perfected the art of ducking the consequences of completely circumventing the rules, they up their game. Who knew that a "respectable university" could just claim whatever the hell they want no matter how easily full of crap said claim is? I think they saw this comic and thought, "You know, that's not a bad idea..."

In other news, I'm actually a diplomat from Laos and therefore have diplomatic immunity so Imma do whatever the hell I want.

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Comments

As long as they are good at roundball and making NCAA money, they skate...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

after reading the article, i think this is more of someone not understanding that the law only applies to law enforcement agencies who have composed the criminal records rather than the subject of the criminal record. Basically, they saw that a public records request can be declined if the record is criminal in nature...BUT they didnt catch the caveat that that only works if they themselves are the law enforcement agency. I am no lawyer so I could be wrong here.

I swear to drunk, I'm not God

As I university, I personally identify as a Toaster

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Idk how many of you have followed the Cam Johnson transfer story, but the way UNC fans, in the midst of all their allegations, claim Pitt is classless for not "doing the right thing" and letting him transfer there is laugh out loud funny.

None of the articles actually show how the record request is phrased. The statute is written pretty broadly, it exempts "any State or local agency, force, department, or unit responsible for investigating, preventing, or solving violations of the law." I am assuming that UNC's argument will be that this involves a state "department" or "unit" that was investigating potential violations of the law. Not knowing the law on this, seems a stretch but will be interesting to see if it this is actually litigated to a decision or not.

By doing these things, UNC is royally fucking over the NCAA when it comes to their cases in not paying athletes. Wonder which hill the NCAA would rather die on, not paying players, or turning their back on UNC's academic fraud.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Did someone say diplomatic immunity?

"It's just been revoked."

- Roger Murtaugh

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

"Dude, wrong kind of 'diploma'."
- UNC's extremely high friend (soooo, IDK...App State?)

that might not be such a smart move.

law enforcement agencies are subject to Corrupt Organization laws and since there is a blatant pattern to coerce, solicit or otherwise compel services to pass these kids in fake classes that could spell RICO to a very creative legal team. Not that NCAA would do that but if UNCheat somehow proves they are a law enforcement agency and someone convinces the AG to prosecute according to the letter of the law. that would be bad news for a lot of people.

anyway, I expect nothing less from them and sackless John Swofford

Keep in mind there may be different definitions of a "law enforcement agency" for FOIA versus Corrupt Org laws (I do not know if that actually is the case).

yeah i am sure and that's agood point. either way there are likely statutes against any type of public agency

but all speculative given the situation

BUT CAN YOU MAKE STICKY RICE?

All kidding aside, this is some 'above and beyond' scumbaggery. And the more I think about it, the less surprised I am. NC is on some roll these days.

No wonder all their players want to be Hokies.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

I hear the #NC2DoC movement is picking up steam...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

The UNC scandal is quickly becoming the academic equivalent of the Baylor moral scandal. Both should be severely disciplined. Baylor more so, obviously, but still....geesh!

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

The ncaa should only punish league violations like academic fraud. It has no business punishing for actual crimes like they tried to do with Penn State. Leave that to the real authorities and the actual court of law

Recruit Prosim

I disagree, as the same actions could violate the rules in both the criminal and the sports-league environment.

One example: if you take drugs, it could be an NCAA violation AND a criminal one.

Fair point. But sexual misconduct has no on the field advantage

Recruit Prosim

Facilitating a culture where it becomes known that anything goes and there are no repercussions does.

Not to mention using university resources to hide arrests and investigations. Using coaches and employees to intimate victims.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is the coup de grace for me. In both cases of Penn St and Baylor it was the abuse of power aspects that made me want to see every reasonable punishment enforced. If that meant legal and then NCAA punishment, so be it. The NCAA is an organization and it can remove schools from that organization and determine the requirements of participation within that organization, so if they want to dole out punishment for legal crimes a school can cooperate or GTFO. They push too hard and run the risk of several schools leaving and forming a separate entity, but that is very unlikely given the amount of TV infrastructure the NCAA has and the overall lack of interest the fanbase would have in a split college athletics world.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

sexual misconduct has no on the field advantage

Ehh, when they actively manipulate the legal system to prevent charges coming down against men within the program to either keep them on staff and actively coaching or to prevent the automatic suspension to students that comes with a charge, allowing them to continue playing, I'd say it gives them one heck of an on-field advantage.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

With that standard, any and all misconduct by an institution results in an on-field advantage and is subject to the NCAA.

If that misconduct is directed by athletic Personal towards helping athletes then yes.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

That's a bit more specific than the comments above. But ok. But what if they're just getting better grades than they deserve, but would still be passing and academically eligible otherwise.

Is that an on-field advantage? I don't think so.

My main concern is that a lot of folks are results-oriented - let's punish these schools because the result is right. You may be happy when it's a different school that gets hammered but I doubt anyone would be happy about the NCAA's wide scope of powers and application if it hammers VT.

If it was discovered that VT was doing all of the nefarious crap that Baylor has been doing, then I would conclude that VT's priorities were ridiculously skewed and would welcome the Death Penalty from the NCAA on top of any criminal charges if it meant excising the rot and infection from the program/school. There is no place at any school, especially VT, for what Baylor has been doing.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Let's all use this opportunity to take a moment to pray that there are no skeletons in any of our closets. I believe that our program is and has been clean, but if it can happen at a place like Baylor/PSU/UNC, it could happen here.

I've been drinking.

I agree. I would certainly want to clean house after something terrible like that, but the death penalty or even sanctions from a non-athletic issue don't seem fair.

Recruit Prosim

I agree with you. I've been vocal in similar threads about the differences between criminal activity and NCAA related activity and been downvoted.

I've been drinking.

We can't keep secrets anyway. Remember the uproar when it was discovered that Bud was fining players? We're overly harsh on our players not overly easy.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Agree entirely. Have just seen enough schools get in enough trouble for things that seem to pop up out of nowhere. I think any fan of any big school college athletics program has to be mindful of the potential that the hammer could fall from out of nowhere at any time.

I think UNC should get absolutely hammered. Because they cheated, but even more so because they've been so brazen about the coverup and obfuscation.

I've been drinking.

remember how it took a couple years to find out that Shane received inside info in a game we lost 6-3 in double overtime?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I've been drinking.

Jesus, they're obtuse.

No special arrangements were made for student-athletes in violation of NCAA extra-benefit legislation ... student-athletes were not treated differently than other students who took the Courses. All students who took the Courses were required to write one or more research papers.

Will post at the end of the comment, academic advisors were looking for special accommodations for their student athletes in email to get these classes done over the summer.

The NCAA in its most recent Notice of Allegations accused UNC of violating "the principles of ethical conduct and extra-benefit legislation" in relation to the courses. UNC's response to that allegation: "Because the issue of the Courses is an academic issue, the University denies that there were NCAA violations."

"We aren't saying we are not ethical, we also aren't saying we are ethical."

UNC's response argues that Crowder was not motivated solely by a desire to assist athletes but to "assist all students who had personal issues or were facing bureaucratic problems by creating educational opportunities."

That's literally cheating the system. I know people get mad at red tape and bureaucracy, but sometimes, especially with degree requirements, it is there for a reason.

UNC contends that some of the data presented in the widely-cited Wainstein report, which was released in October of 2014, was incorrect. Wainstein asserted athletes accounted for nearly half of the enrollment in the suspect African Studies courses. According to UNC's response, athletes accounted for 29.4 percent of the enrollments.

There are 18.5k undergraduate at UNC currently. UNC has 28 mens and womens athletic teams. Let's guesstimate here and say each team has roughly 40 members (things like golf and fencing offsetting things like football) that would be roughly 1120 athletes. Even if it was only 30% athletic enrollment, athletes are 6% of the campus population yet they are grossly over represented in these paper classes

.

A key point of UNC's response is that athletes worked to earn their grades in these classes. From the response: "The record contains significant evidence of work done by student-athletes in the Courses. Their ASPSA academic counselors, who assisted with that work during the semester, reported that the student-athletes who took the Courses typically prepared an abstract and outline, performed research and, over the course of weeks of work, drafted a 20- to 25-page paper with citations and quotations to scholarly sources and containing a works cited page."

This is super tenuous. There is the classic "Rosa Parks" paper. UNC fans all say that it was a draft, the tutor says it was definitely student work, but unsure if it was a draft or final submission, but if it is supposed to resemble a 20-25 page paper, that is fucking horseshit.

I'm done with these assholes and I'm already late leaving work. This is a biased website but actually has some really cool info (email, analysis, etc.) on the paper classes that are at the heart of the story. http://www.bluedevilicious.com/fake--paper-classes--at-unc.html

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

No doubt UNC is going to put the system on trial.

Or any other kind of double-talk they think might work or delay things.

Ooops! Now it's too long ago and any sanctions would punish the wrong people.

Then it's a clear lack of institutional control

Recruit Prosim

At this point I think it is safe to reasonably argue that it is no longer a lack of institutional control but because of the pattern of continuous obstruction and the creative means by which UNC has avoided punishment speaks to the Direct Control of the institution by those who are responsible for getting the University into an investigation and by those who are continuing the effort to avoid punishment.

Bingo. Its almost like UNC is challenging the basic definition of the LOIC charge in that it can't be LOIC because they know exactly what they're doing. They're essentially saying the NCAA can't touch them because they don't have the bylaws to act upon schools who organizationally manipulate the system to their own benefit.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

So if UNC is now a law enforcement operation does that make the students the inmates???

i realize this is /s

but it does bring up the oft debated topic of student athletes being employees. in this case, if UNCheat proved this how would they not be employees?

all around a stupid, scumbag move

Shame is a graduate level class.

We put the K in Kwality

Has a prerequisite of Morality.

EVERYBODY RUN!

So if UNC is a law enforcement organization and not a university then the NCAA should immediately remove them from the NCAA membership and outlaw their participation in any athletic programs.

Just so tired of this mess, it has been going on what 8 years since it was discovered? UNC is now arguing that the statue of limitations has expired on some of the offenses.

They're really hoping nobody notices the circular logic.

Using the defense "We've been arguing so long you can't really be mad at us anymore." is a really poor defense.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Poor, but apparently effective

yep, results speak for themselves. Since this mess has been going on, they've landed a prized up and coming coach in Fedora, lured in countless high profile recruits, won march madness, and haven't been punished in the slightest except for a self imposed post season ban where the players got rings anyway.

If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it. And this is really NCAA's last chance to flex its muscles otherwise future offenders will scream and yell and point to UNC as a reason that what they did is not punishable.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html

Great pics in the News and Observer but one thing really stood out to me and concerned me greatly.

Once I told former UNC athletic director John Swofford I wanted to write a story that, in part, looked into athletic department finances. Swofford placed his hand on my shoulder and said: "Now, Patrick, why would you want to write about a thing like that?"

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html#storylink...

Why in the hell have the schools allowed Swofford to remain in power so long with his Tobacco Row centered and NC centered view and vision for the conference.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I can't really knock his vision for the conference.

He helped make the ACC a power 5 football conference, got a decent agreement with Notre Dame, and is currently working on an ACC Network deal.

The ACC are the current champions in both football and basketball (and the football contenders aren't in North Carolina).

We can knock the guy for his focus on North Carolina, but the ACC has been a success by any measure I can think of.

Did you hit the report a typo link for how they misspelled UNCheat too?

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

What's funny is that they'd MUCH rather it besmirch their academic reputation than bring NCAA sanctions.

NCAA due to release its findings and potentially its repercussions on the UNC case tomorrow at noon.

See article here

I'll believe it at 12:05.

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"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Lol, that's what they said last time

Unless it rains.

We put the K in Kwality

Huh, would you look at that, they've scheduled a chance of rain just before the release

Report officially being released at 10am per Feldman.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Since a great deal of what UNC has done is actually not just unethical, but illegal, I could quite honestly see them pleading the fifth amendment because their individual testimony "might tend to incriminate them".

The sad part is this won't be over because you know UNCheat is going to appeal and put the whole think back on a new timer.

Have you seen the report?

Or, maybe UNC is that stupid, considering the quality of their classes offered.

No, I hadn't I thought it came out at noon, just saw the other thread. Just wow...