November 2017 Recruiting Thread Part 1

Discuss and share any Virginia Tech related recruiting topics from October 2017 [0] that don't warrant their own thread [1]. Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.

[0] If someone would like to make this thread from month-to-month, let Joe know, he is apt to forget and pressed for time. Or simply copy the boilerplate and start a new thread.
[1] New offers, commitments, decommitments, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum

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Comments

This is a little bit of a reach, but I saw that UNC LB commit Payton Wilson tore his ACL. The rumor was that early playing time was a big factor in his decision. I wonder if this injury, coupled with the fact that UNC is a complete dumpster fire, makes him rethink his decision (we were in his top group). I saw that Fuente tweeted a note to him (he can tweet at recruits right? Where's that flow chart??)

I bet we're still gonna focus on Dax and Artis, but Wilson pre-injury looked like an elite recruit.

I read that Wilson is considering NCSU and ND.

Oh thank you sweet jesus...

You're welcome ;)

Does anybody else kinda feel like Fuente is still figuring out what level of recruit we can land? I feel like his perception improved and we went after the same level of recruits we normally do and we filled up super fast and now we could possible miss out on some higher recruits. Hopefully we take that next step forward in 2019, especially since we have a big head start on that class!

I think Fuente's strength is the ability to evaluate the recruits that fit in his system really well. I think we are seeing an instant impact by how our new guys are already on the field and contributing. They are freshmen but already show signs of large upsides.

Our recruiting has improved from last year and I think next year will be even stronger. We keep winning and it will take care of itself.

Plus we get a 10th coach added after Signing day, I fully expect more of a strong recruiting minded coach.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

I think to an extent that is true, but it's not like top tier recruits can't fit in his system, and it's not as if other programs who pull in top talent aren't recruiting for their system. It is still a little early to tell how effective of a recruiter he is because as well as we have done so far, you still have to establish yourself in an area and as a team that can continually contend in big games.

I think he is certainly on the right track but we can't keep recruiting 3 star guys that "fit our system" because Miami, Clemson, FSU, etc... are getting 4 and 5 star guys that also fit their systems. Teams aren't winning championships just by recruiting guys that can fit gaps. They have playmakers that amaze you (see Austin Bryants interception against us). You obviously need coaches that can capitalize on that talent (lol Al Golden) but to take that next step you need more guys like Devon Hunter and Tre Turner. Kids that can truly change a program.

Very very well said. Look at Foster's defenses for example. Recruiting middle-tier recruits to his system has always produced good results, but look at how dominant an elite recruit in Tim Settle is in Bud's system. Our coaching staff is so good that we'll always be able to put a good product on the field regardless of recruiting results, but in order to take the next steps, we truly need to land the Settles of the world with regularity.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

... which brings to mind DT/ DE recruiting. Hope Glaze, Porcher, Debose etc are developing as RS

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

We have more freshman contributing this year than I can remember.
Bryce Watts has been a big surprise. He really has come along. I was very excited about Savoy when we landed him. Long story short. On paper it seems we are recruiting same level recruits. We are getting quality football players though.

Hokie Love!

That seems more from necessity than by choice.

Recruit Prosim

Why are we offering elite recruits if 3 stars fit our system better then?

Nobody said anything about 3 stars fitting our system better than elite recruits.

Chem PhD '16

No but the implication is that because of Fuente's talent evaluation we are fine with his 3 star guys over elite guys that somehow don't fit, yet we still pursued

That's your inference, not the implication at all. If we don't land the 5* that we offer, what are we supposed to do... sit around and not evaluate, identify, and bring in someone else who can fit the scheme and do the job? I'd rather have a coaching staff that can win games with 3* talent than one that can't, because we have a lot of 3* talent right now.

Chem PhD '16

leg for inference. "Not what I said, what you heard."

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Yes. We really need more Sunny gifs and memes in here.

Are these recruits in danger?

I think my meaning was lost in my wordiness....

the recruits we are getting now are very well positioned to play quickly and effectively.. as we continue to improve you will see higher quality recruits come to VT. It seems Fuente is able to see the potential of recruits on a early time table and gets to them before the recruits really take off. (EX: Patterson, Keene, Pimpleton)

As soon as VT starts putting players in the NFL and they stick a little better on the offensive side that will help as well. Not a huge factor but still a factor

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Not to nitpick but I think Keene was largely due to his dad's relationship with Wiles. Savoy seems like the best example currently contributing but obviously the QB recruiting has looked extremely promising.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Unless VT's athletic financial resources improve dramatically compared to its aspirational peers, I think Fuente & Co aren't far from bumping into the recruiting ceiling - regardless of what happens on the field.

I also believe that VT's relatively modest financial resources and the resulting recruiting ceiling is the biggest challenge to retaining Fuente - not the head coach's salary.

Yep, look at budgets of teams that year to year average out in top 15 of recruiting and rankings and playing for NC and compare their budgets to Tech's.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Is that info readily available?

for public universities? yes

I looked at it once couple of years ago. I can't remember the info exactly, but IIRC of the top 15 recruiting recruiting schools since Rivals started their rankings, 11 of the 12 public schools were in the top 20 athletic budgets/revenue. The outlier was Clemson and they were toward the bottom of the top 15 recruiting and in the 30s in budget.

Additionally Miami, USC & ND were the 3 private schools. I'm certain ND's budget would be in the top 20, USC's quite possibly in the top 20, and Miami likely would be another outlier.

So there is a big correlation between financial resources and recruiting -- and then beyond that it helps to be in a recruiting hotbed (USC, Miami). And even to lesser extent Clemson is in the middle of a hotbed (don't think so? Just look at the number of 4* and 5*'s within a 3 hr drive of Clemson).

Friendly reminder to join the Hokie Club

We won't miss out on any top guys due to numbers.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Some might even say.... the numbers always work out. Just what I've heard

Los numeros siempre funcionan.

d'Zuelen sinn ëmmer ze schaffen

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

🏈🎱🎯🎲📒📈🗓️

Yep. 👏🏻👏🏻

ethay umbersnay alwaysyay orkway outyay.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck, don't ever come on my show and talk about your football." - Colin Cowherd

Les chiffres functionnent jamais... Merde.

Elephante libro la macarena

I think everybody should WATCH THEIR LANGUAGE!

⌚⌚⌚ ⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚ ⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚ ⌚⌚⌚⌚ ⌚⌚⌚

What's that smell? Oh, bourbon.

I am TheHokieWatchmaker and I approve this message

Stars are overrated. Are they meaningless? Of course not but they are not the be all and end all either. Our recruiting is getting better and better and will continue to. Our highest profile recruits last year (Hunter,Rivers, Proctor) aren't even contributing yet. Having said that, our O line recruiting concerns me a little.

Of course they do - in the aggregate, over the long term..

But they are also overrated - particularly on an individual basis. The success rate of stars in predicting, say, an individual getting drafted is quite low. The biggest bunch of nonsense in the recruiting game is that all 4 stars are created equal. Low 4 stars are virtually indistinbguishable from high 3 stars, yet they are treated by many fans and even recruitniks as sure fire blue chip recruits. And when they don't live up to the ridiculous expectations of these fans, the same puzzling questions come up about why the coaches aren't playing them, etc.

Given the low predictive success of recruiting rankings, getting excited because a particular recruit is rated a 4 star or whatever - or even a particular class -- is largely folly.

Given the low predictive success of recruiting rankings, getting excited because a particular recruit is rated a 4 star or whatever - or even a particular class -- is largely folly.

You're more than welcome to be equally excited for Settle and Hewitt but don't pretend its dumb to get more excited for a Dax than a Lydon.

I think you miss the big picture though. A program doesn't just go from a perennial 20-25 ranked recruiting class to a top10 over night. There needs to be a gradual shift from 3* players to 4/5* players. Once you get to that place in recruiting the individual players don't really matter, but there will always be another 4* player waiting in the ranks to step up. That's why stars matter.

A program doesn't just go from a perennial 20-25 ranked recruiting class to a top10 over night.

And the ones that seem to have done so, we later find some shady shit was happening (see Ol MIss). Clemson was fringe top10 (if not out right top10, in a given year), before Dabo took over as HC. It's the fact that they were that good at recruiting, but not doing nearly as well in games, that got Bowden fired.

Agreed, Clemson averaged about 15th in the 4 years prior to Dabo taking over. Really VT wasn't far behind in those years, but it's clear recruiting wasn't exactly a strong suit or priority of the administration at that time since there wasn't much an improvement.

They went like 6-7 or 7-6 in 2010

Recruit Prosim

Safety and LBer are two of the deepest positions we have on the team. Proctor was known from Day 1 to be a developmental guy with huge upside. The correlation between elite recruiting and success on the field has been proven time and time again. Are they 100% accurate? Of course not. But to say that they are overrated or should be disregarded is just not true.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Stars absolutely, 100% matter. Rankings are right a lot more often than they're wrong, especially now, as film and camps are are much more easily accessible.

In general, true.

The outlier, as always, is OL.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Eh.. O-linemen take some more time to develop than other positions and can be a bit harder to gauge, I'll agree with that, but 4 and 5* OL men are still getting drafted at a very high rate and tend to have a higher hit percentage, just as other positions do.

It is naive to think that 2 and 3* OL are just as likely to be as good as 4 and 5* because 'OL can't be judged'

It is naive to think that 2 and 3* OL are just as likely to be as good as 4 and 5* because 'OL can't be judged'

Never said any of that. Not sure how you got there.

All I meant was

O-linemen take some more time to develop than other positions and can be a bit harder to gauge

, like you said.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

No they're not. They're wrong more than right on an individual basis. Even no-brainer can't miss 5 stars only get drafted about 50% of the time.

By ratio, it's not even an argument. Each year, roughly 4,500 football players sign Division I scholarships. Less than 10% are rated as 4 or 5 star guys. Yet, when it comes around to draft time, 4 and 5 star guys make up roughly 40-50% of the first round picks, year over year. More telling is that roughly 1/4 five star guys end up being first round draft picks, while roughly 1/64 three star guys end up as first rounders. So yes, while there may be some individual blue chip guys that don't pan out, you are much more likely to be "right" than "wrong" with a blue chip guy vs a three star guy.

I'd like to see where you're getting 4* & 5* guys are 110-120 of the guys drafted each year. I do agree that when 5*'s get drafted they are often very high picks.

Nevertheless you're missing the point. On an individual basis (not an aggregate basis) and particularly with 4*'s and 3*'s, the star ratings are incredibly bad predictors of success and/or getting drafted because there are so many factors that the stars don't and/or can't evaluate.

In the end, the odds of a "blue-chip" 4* not getting drafted are quite high and the odds a non-"blue-chip" 3* not getting drafted are only slightly higher. But as I said, getting excited over an individual 4* recruit - or even a single recruiting class - is folly because stars are not very predictive of success.

Well said.

The way it's looked at for college football recruiting is like looking at a whether or not someone with a high or low batting average will hit a single particular pitch in a game....actually it's probably closer to looking at a single pitch out of the year.

But yes I agree with everyone that Talent matters. Talent + Good coaching tends to matter the most.

And we already have good coaching... so now we just need the talent

A 5 star gets drafted 50% of the time? That implies incredible predictive power. You're basically saying that a system can tell within .5 reliability whether a high-schooler will be at or near the very top of their field within 3-5 years, that's impressive. Especially considering that with 4,500 scholarship players every year and ~300 getting drafted, that's 6.7% of all athletes, so we are increasing predictive power by almost 8 times.

I'd wager that a simple model of "measurables" by position would do very well. A guy who runs 4.4 and is 6'0" 210 lbs and ran for 2,500 yds in 10 HS games as a Jr is going to have a very high RB success rate over guys who are smaller and/or slower. Yeah, measureables aren't perfect but I'm guessing that the success rate of the model would be quite good.

Mid to low tier 3* players usually have a deficiency. If they are only 5'6", there's not much chance of over coming it. But if it's an OL prospect who's 6'6" 210" there's real potential to put on good weight to make them a real draft candidate.

I'd agree but add that stars are not intended to predict NFL success. They often correlate, but stars are an estimation of college success and how soon they will contribute. 5 star players are supposed to be instant game changers, which is why OL don't often grade that way. Recruiting services could very well believe a linebacker is going to be a future all star but if they need a year or two in the weight room to get there, they will be a 3 star.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

But it should make sense that a kid who's ready to contribute as an 18 yo will be more likely to succeed and be drafted than a kid who isn't ready.

Exactly. There are exceptions though where a kid might have the body type to dominate college and still not be NFL prototype. The odds are in their favor though.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

True for ESPN. Incorrect for the others.

For Rivals and 247, they are a measure of both college and pro potential.

Scout is simply a numerical order of the player relative to his peers - top 50=5*, 51-300=4*, etc.

And 50% don't. Those are the 5*, can't miss, "once a decade, VT fans would be going ape shit if they sign with VT" recruits - and they don't even get drafted.

If 225-ish guys get drafted each year -- and 50% of the 25-ish 5* in each class are not part of that 220 - that's not very predictive in my book.

Once you get to 4*'s (so-called "blue-chippers"), the miss rate gets much higher - and that includes the top 100, near 5*s.

So your plan is to just ignore the consensus best players in the nation and instead recruit players who everyone agrees aren't as good.

via GIPHY

Get Angry, Bud!

I'll repeat it again and hopefully your presumptive bias doesn't overwhelm logic. On an individual athlete basis -- and even a particular class - the star ratings are not very good predictors of success. That's what I'm saying - and the historical data completely and unequivocally back that up. Period.

But to take it a step further - and this is the part where people gets confused about "star ratings matter" - even on a program level, great recruiting over time is not a particularly good predictor of consistent great success in at least the medium-term (think Tennessee, Texas, Texas A&M, Notre Dame, Florida in recent years). But great recruiting is damn near a requirement for a consistent great success.

So even on a medium-term program level, I would say success is a far, far better indicator of recruiting strength than recruiting strength is a predictor of success. And in an age of every coach being 2 years from being fired, the medium-term is about as far as an AD and coach can afford to look.

Nevertheless, to answer your question, all things being equal, I would rather recruit the highest ranked players. In that regard, playing the straight odds, stars do matter.

But all things aren't equal and even on a medium/long-term program level, chasing stars can be fool's gold (and has been for many programs). Sure if you're Alabama at present, you can throw mud at the wall and more than enough will stick. But everybody else, it's not that simple. So in practice, I would recruit the best players that fit a program's culture and needs. And stars only do a moderately good job of defining that. In that regard, stars only matter somewhat.

That's why mantras like "VT should be getting 7 of the top 10 ranked players VA" are just silly. Even in a good year, VT probably only wants or needs maybe 5 of the top ten (for a variety reasons - overrated, bad apple, dim bulb, not a position of need, not a good fit scheme-wise, etc.) regardless of their 4* rating.

Ok, you are talking a lot here. Provide some sources. Sources were provided that support the importance of top talent to college success. I want to see the research that supports a pursuit of another predictive measurement.

What's the point in posting this 20 comments deep into the discussion? Clearly there is life on either side of the argument so I'm not sure how you think your gif is applicable here...

So even on a medium-term program level, I would say success is a far, far better indicator of recruiting strength than recruiting strength is a predictor of success. And in an age of every coach being 2 years from being fired, the medium-term is about as far as an AD and coach can afford to look.

I mean, most of the time, the correlation between class strength and on the field success is pretty high. Not perfect, but pretty damn high. See above sources.

That's why mantras like "VT should be getting 7 of the top 10 ranked players VA" are just silly. Even in a good year, VT probably only wants or needs maybe 5 of the top ten (for a variety reasons - overrated, bad apple, dim bulb, not a position of need, not a good fit scheme-wise, etc.) regardless of their 4* rating.

This is a really hindsight driven approach though. Its impossible to know which of the top 10 are going to fit into the given categories (instant star, contributor, bust, etc.) so you can't just throw your hands up and say "Well some of these are gonna fail, so we don't even need to try."

Recruiting is like mining. You need to be able to follow every ore node and line, because you never know which one is going to peter out at the exact wrong time. (I also know that I'm not a mining engineer, and my mining friends would probably yell at me for this analogy)

I don't know what I would do from a recruit targeting approach with regard to either of these opinions though. I imagine that our two sides of this argument are pretty well fused together in the scouting departments across CFB and the big boards for all the teams take need, fit, and talent(i.e. stars) into account when deciding who to commit resources towards. So really, we are just sort of reinventing the wheel here.

Get Angry, Bud!

a particularly good predictor of consistent great success in at least the medium-term

"great success" requires the coaching staff to take the high quality talent and "coach them up". Even then "great success" is about more than just talent, preparation and scheme. Injuries and turnoveritis can derail any team.

I'd argue that over the past 4 years only 3-4 teams have had "great success" (Bama, Clemson and anOSU). So while every year there are teams with big time success recruiting, only a few have the success that you mention.

Here is an article on McFadden and where things current stand regarding his commitment

McFadden

Young man has a great dilemma on his hands; he's earned opportunities.
He likes the Hokies, but grew up in Clemson territory, plays for Clemson fans....

Bummer. Was supposed to do his OV to Clemson for a sleepy Citadel game. Now he's probably going for the FSU game. FSU sucks this year but I'm sure the fans will still be a lot more into that game.

Meh, the way FSU is playing they might as well be Citadel.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck, don't ever come on my show and talk about your football." - Colin Cowherd

this month will a "steady as we go" month.... maybe a few surprises and comments but December will be a busy busy month with early signing period and decisions to be announced after high school football wraps up.

Also my #sauces informed me that we have some big visits during the month of December. Who, I dont know.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Good thing we got football to keep us entertained while we dream of recruits to come. Thanks for the insight.

Hmmmm

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

Nothing to see here.

Can't wait to watch him to commit to NC State!

NCST commit inevitable whether tonight or in a few weeks/months.

Committing within the next week. Has not OV'ed. Doesn't look promising.

Heres how this goes.
NC state: hey Alim, were filling up and getting a lot of interest from UNC players and others.
Alim: ok, I wanted to have fun and do my OV, but I'll just commit early

What are they going to do when Dave Dorian leaves for Greener pastures?

VT Insider Matej Sis put a Crystal Ball for Clemson toward KJ

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Shouldn't be a huge surprise. KJ was always going to be a long shot. Dax on the other hand is more realistic and would be a great get.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Regardless, KJ would likely have a much greater impact at VT both on the field and off... Tough to keep getting sidelined by Clemson for these kinds of players. Something has to change there.

Its bad enough we aren't getting those players, but to have to later face them is just an extra gut punch

Something has to change there.

The simplest way for us to contribute as fans is to donate more to the Hokie Club. Whit and staff have proven they know how to use our money efficiently.

Can't wait till he's playing and we play Clemson and ESPN does a bit about how KJ felt slighted because VT didn't recruit him...../s

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Dax isn't a great get. He's a must get.

What does "must get" mean anyway? Fans say that about players all the time. Sometimes we get them, sometimes we don't. Yet here we are still existing as a football program.

And more than a few "must gets" that became "must gots" ended up "anything buts"...

It means Dax is the kind of guy we need to get if we want to move forward as a program. Everything about his level of talent and recruitment lines up for that. College football is either get better or get left behind. If we want to win shit, we need to land the Daxs. We can't count on the ACC being down like it was from 2004-2010 for our success. Thats what a must get is. No shit the program will still exist.

Sorry, but the Pied Piper recruiting narrative is largely false - unless donors begin lining up to donate $$ because some recruit who is unknown to 95%+ of them at present signs with VT.

$$ and the visible results of those $$ are what drives recruiting far, far more than wins or signing a so called "must get" recruit.

We could honestly double our blue chip rate within our budget. I'm not asking for top 10 classes

Guys. We've had the "do stars matter" discussion like a billion times now. If you would like to continue the conversation it might be best to start another thread for it...

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

More importantly, if you believe in things like statistics and facts, stars matter. It's not a debate.

Much like many things, you can always find exceptions, but the larger sample size shows that stars matter.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

As long as there are people that argue math, it will happen.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Can we start a new recruiting thread?

I agree but lets be honest, people would still go on more tangent conversations.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I guess naming it that wasn't enough.

Might be more beneficial to start an OT miscellaneous dead horse thread

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

This thread always goes to crap real fast lol .

McNeill to NC State

Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advice.

They put the press on him and it worked. VT should've done the same back in the spring.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Why didn't we?

Because our resources can only go in so many directions right now. Lack of staff and budget means you have to have some kind of focus.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We need to up our recruiting budget, but don't blame this one on budget or resources. The coaches had an opportunity to close on him and didn't. The ball was dropped on this one. He was ready to commit on a visit and we told him to 'go home and sleep on it.' The programs we're recruiting against don't say that to guys - especially 4/5* guys in positions of need.

I would rather our coaches encourage a high school kid to be sure of his decision than coerce him into a bad decision for him. I like the fact that our coaches care about the kids as much as about our program.

Doesn't matter if it's cake or pie as long as it's chocolate.

That's fine. But be prepared to continue to lose talent with that approach. Saban, Urban, hell, any midrange SEC program is going to eat our lunch. You've got to have some kind of killer instinct both on and off the field if you want to compete for anything meaningful.

It doesn't really matter, to be honest. The excuse was made that this was a money/resources thing, and it's not. It's an attitude and approach to recruiting thing. The majority of our staff is still learning recruit at this level, and it shows.

It's definitely a resource thing too. Hell, we've lost some 5* because our dorms blow. I have a feeling this staff will be fine recruiting wise, especially when we bring in the 10th coach

Keep calm, Gobble on

1) I am talking specifically to Alim McNeil. No one else. Clearly dorms have hurt us with others. That was not the case in this instance though. Killer instinct, being passive, and not knowing the landscape of big-time P5 recruiting was.

2) I'm glad our confident in this staff. I'm not sure what they've done to prove they can recruit at this level. Our class this year will likely finish lower than our class last year, which was average at best. Every other staff is getting a 10th coach as well. Not sure what leads you to believe VT will see a marginal improvement greater than everyone else.

If he committed then decommited because he wasn't sure when he made the decision then we'd be in the same boat. I don't think it would have changed the end result.

Big kid, great athlete, can catch and run?

Sign him up.

The more athletes we have the perimeter the better. Sat night proved that we need playmakers on the outside.

We need him.

Badly.

Need more O-line. We need athletes at the tackle spots.

Beamer Brawl

If he is already a TE now, then he will probably be moved to Oline

Leg for the joke, but if he can't cut it as TE, he will probably move to other side of the ball. He plays safety/corner as well as returning punts (for tds) and taking snaps from wildcat. His hs team's qb went down and he ran a lot until the next qb got his feet wet.

So TE —> QB

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We always find our way back home.

How about Cade Mays? 5 star OT only like 3 hours from Blacksburg

I've read "no" from several sites.

-@no1hokie86

I didn't think there was, but I would like to be at a point where we can at least be considered by 5* OT that are less than 3 hours from Blacksburg, especially when they decommit from the local school

Alston Smith says it's a Go

¿Qué?

He ate a whole wheel of cheese and then pooped it out.

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

define "it"

I assume this is in reference to Mike Vick's son getting a scholarship offer. Alston Smith was Bruce Smith's son. Played from 2012-2015.

@Fightin_Gobbler

Go Hokies

Go Falcons

Alston Smith was Bruce Smith's son

Isn't this still the case?

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Yes, he is. But he was, too.

After that career?

/soccasm

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Jarren McAllister has officially signed.

McAllister may not be as highly rated but kid can ball. Great defender and right out of a Buzz mold. With Nolley, him, and Kabongo, I think all we need is a big man like Florent Thamba to come in a give KB a breather next year.

Scholarship count: we lose Wilson, Bibbs and we are currently under by 1.

But I've seen today that we are still looking for a big for the Spring signing period. I guess that's Fullard's spot? It wasn't clear if he was just on scholarship for one year or the rest of his time. I guess Outlaw coming back probably isn't determined yet either.

Believe Fullard is a R-Jr so guessing he is graduating this spring and is gone.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Outlaw is out of eligibility?

medical hardship request

Always choose joy.

Are we expecting anyone to sign in the first early signing period?

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Yes, I would expect almost every current hard commit to sign in that early period.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I love that this post actually has real recruiting talk when the regular recruiting post tends to be full of puns and jokes. Go figure.

What is the significance of coaches following recruits on twitter? I know it probably happens with most of them but does it signify somebody we're really going after? This came to mind only because I just got a notification that Fuente and others followed Jeremy Webb that JUCO CB. He has been a guy we've all talked about recently but I'm wondering if this means yea we really are going after him hard.

I can imagine Fuente and the other coordinators getting together for some fine Bourbon and cigars. The conversation gets somewhat boring, so Fuente pulls out his phone, opens Twitter and tells everybody: Hey guys, watch this shit... (he then follows "x recruit" on Twitter). Then he proceeds to open TheKeyPlay recruiting thread for that month and they all laugh at all our comments and this provides some entertainment for the rest of the evening.

I think he is visiting soon and will be the only one coming...... he is going to get a lot of attention

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

From the Orlando Sentinel Re: Tanner Ingle (DB, Orlando)

"I spoke with Coach [Butch] Jones about 30 minutes ago," the Orlando Dr. Phillips defensive back said about 12:30 Sunday afternoon. "He said he didn't really expect that to happen, but it did so he told me to find a place to go, quickly ... and that if he gets anything he will contact me."

Ingle said he remains committed to Tennessee, but his recruitment is open and that NC State looks to be the frontrunner for his services. He said he will for sure take an official visit to NC State and possibly Virginia Tech, where former teammate Robert Porsher (sic) IV is a freshman. Current teammate cornerback Braxton Clark is also currently committed to Hokies.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

love me some Dr. Phillips boys.... they have some dudes on that team for sure..

Any update from LA or BAG?

Dax?
Mitchell?
Artis?
Walker?
Webb?

That sounds like a law firm. A truly BAMF law firm.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck, don't ever come on my show and talk about your football." - Colin Cowherd

If I had a say.... this would be my feeling today. (cause my opinion matters /s)
Dax- VT (Kid is a family man, Stanford is just too far away at the end of the day)
Mitchell- VT
Artis- VT
Walker- No Idea
Webb- Id like to say VT but not too sure...

With some many coaching changes happening to schools that effect our recruiting, watch for some changes or old names pop back up.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Dax? -50/50. Agree with BAG that his family is very important to him and it would be tough for him to leave, but I truly feel that Stanford is his favorite school and would be the clear choice if it were on the east coast. Wouldn't be surprised either way. Curious to see how Artis' commitment would change things with Dax.

Mitchell? - Doesn't do interviews anymore and is a pretty quiet kid that really only speaks with the staff if they reach out to him. Gut says VT but wouldn't be surprised to see him join his sister at UGA.

Artis - hearing he could announce this week. Will be a hokie IMO (edit: see my post below).

Walker? - OSU or PSU IMO. Knows that he's a huge priority and the open depth chart is appealing to him but I think we get big timed.

Webb? - depends on his visit this weekend but I like our chances. Most important recruit left on the board at this point IMO excluding Walker.

BONUS - I think Walker Culver flips to the good guys.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Any thoughts on Tenuta? Jesus Gibbs?

Tenuta loves us and the staff likes him back. Not as much as they like Culver but they'd happily take his commitment. IMO we should be him on hold until Culver comes to a final decision or mcfadden decommits (still think that happens eventually) but he's an ok prospect to me. If he agrees to go to FUMA then I'll take that all day, but not sure he would take that route over heading to Morgantown.

Gibbs on the other hand is a FUMA guy all the way. Doesn't have the grades right now and USCe doesn't really care if he stays or goes. Honestly don't have a very good read on hw this plays out.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

I would be happy with Darrisaw, Harris, Culver and Tenuta.

haven't been paying attention to recruiting this year, but by Walker, do you mean Ricky Walker?

From Bethel?

We are the Hokies. We will prevail. We will prevail. We will prevail. We are Virginia Tech.

So with Early signing period for the first time, a tenth coach getting on staff for everyone and these jobs coming open this is going to be a very interesting recruiting and signing sprint to the end.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Hey where are the "studs" from the 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes? Did those classes have a higher than normal flame out rate?

Also does anybody else feel like Fuente is going to trim the fat from this roster, like Buzz did?

2014 class: Fisher, A. Ford, McKenize, Durkin, M. Williams, Keihn, Holland and Revis are no longer on team
I. Ford, Walker, Phillips, McMillion, Reid and Stroman have all done work for the Hokies.

2015. Class: Lawson gone

Settle, Nijiman, Reynolds, Hill, Edmunds, Gaines have all been good with Fox not being a bust

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Some quick analysis.

{Before I do any of the work, the general rule of thumb is 1/3 starters, 1/3 contributors, 1/3 flameout} Espn 4stars in bold.

2014:
Starters (8):Walker, Ford, McMillan, Mihota, Gallo, Edmunds2, Phillips, Stroman
Contributors (8): Burke, Petit, Marshawn, Minor, TSmith, Payne, Santamaria (?), Sobczak (?)
Flameouts (12):Fisher, Holland, McKenzie, Reid, Keihn, Taylor, Durkin, Reavis, Bronson, Bradshaw, Ford, Mitchell

A little high on flameouts. Ford, Reavis and Keihn have been starters/contributors at other programs.

2015:
Starters (9): Settle, Nijman, Hill, Mook, McClease(?), Edmunds3, Alexander, (Plantin), (Hoyt)
Contributors (4): Fullwood, Cunningham, Fox, Gaines (?)
Flameouts (9): Lawson, AClark, Williamson, Allenye, Rock Johnson, Lydon, Arnold, Lewis, Whitehead

Again, a little high on flameouts but this did occur during a coaching transition. Projecting a bit on Plantin and Hoyt because they probably both look like starters in 2018 at this point. Gaines could go up, McClease could drop down.

A little high on flameouts. Ford, Reavis and Keihn have been starters/contributors at other

Reavis would still be a starter this year. I don't consider him or Keihn as misses or busts.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yeah, you can't get too fine of a point on the definition. Flameout may be the wrong moniker, but guys who didn't contribute. Could be because they never made it here or because they got their girlfriend pregnant or smoked up their chance or blew out their knee.

Reavis or Keihn could have been contributors at VT, but maybe Bronson could have as well if he had actually made it here. Who knows. I just meant that they weren't contributors one way or another.

They both started or played significant minutes.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

But not necessarily for VT is all he's sayin

Chem PhD '16

Yeah, you can thin slice it all day. I'm just trying to simplify it.

Just to justify with a generality: Let's say there was a kid we knew was a knucklehead but he was a really good player. We offered, he accepted, he looked really good in practice. Then he did some knuckleheady type of thing and was sent packing. Then he was a starter at ....say....Colorado for three years. You can justify this type of 1/0 by saying we should have known better than to offer a known knucklehead or we should have babysat him out of that situation or whatever. We took a risk and it didn't work. Just like taking a risk on a marginally talented player that they might blossom in your system.

That's a general situation applied to justify the overall ranking philosophy, not to be applied to any kid in particular.

They both played at Tech Reavis had 8 tackles, a forced fumble and a punt return in seven games and was projected going into spring summer as the starter at Safety. Keihn plays in 13 games and was a special teams stable. I understand if a kid doesn't make it to the team but to call kids who played an entire season busts and then left the school is odd. I wouldn't call them standouts for the team but Busts?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Fair enough, I didn't recall either of them contributing to such a degree in their one year. I thought both had potential but didn't remember any actual contributions while at VT.

Again, this wasn't meant as an in depth analysis, just a quick and dirty gauge on how those classes fared.

My point is that you would think the highly rated guys from the 2014 and 2015 classes would be serious contributors right now and most are gone or never lived up to the hype. I understand when we take a project guy and him not working but when the highest rated guys in the class are not contributing (for whatever reason) it's disappointing

I went thru and highlighted the espn 4 stars in bold.

It looks like the 4 stars are mostly starters

247 composite is probably a better metric. For example, McKenzie was a Composite 4-star and he certainly showed he had that ability and would have been a great RB for us, aside from injuries.

aside from injuries and off field issues.

FTFY

Seems like ESPN has a better pulse on these classes. Almost all their 4-stars ended up as starters

Yeah, ESPN has really improved. I might agree with Orion regarding which service had a better feel in 2014/15. These days, seems like ESPN does the best job with actual scouts.

And to your point, in retrospect, looks like ESPN had a really good feel for our talent. Ricky Walker, in particular, sticks out as well scouted by them. (I remember remarking to a UVA buddy that we got Walker and Mihota in that class, two UVA legacies. He said neither of their brothers were particularly good players and didn't think they were that big of a deal to miss on these two players. Both of their brothers were multi-year starters, I believe. As has been illustrated here, a guy that's a multiyear starter is a pretty rare thing in itself. But that's what makes them UVA fans, they are idiots.)

that's not 'significant' they were both in the pipeline for more PT, especially Reavis but their contributions @ VT did not match their potential. That's a bust.

Artis making me look like I know what I'm talking about. Announcing his college choice at 2pm tomorrow afternoon.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Or you have a subscription to 247. Funny you post this after they report it. Admittedly haven't been here long, but that seems to often be the case with your posts. Tell me something that hasn't already been reported over there.

That's a funny way of begging for inside information

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Like my post up above saying that I was hearing he was going to announce this week before 247 announced that he was going to? Or alerting everyone that news was coming the day James Graham committed before anyone on 247 said anything? What about the day John Harris and Eli Adams committed? Again, I was the first across any platform to put both of those out there.

I've also said from the first day I started posting here that I actively read 247 but don't post there (too many loud mouths as it is). I also have several friends close to or in the program. Sometimes EGW and boys over at 247 beat me to the punch because we have different sources and, guess what, THEY ARE REAL PEOPLE. Maybe my friend in the athletic department is at dinner with his wife when a commit comes through so someone from 247 gets the text first. Another difference is that those guys talk directly to recruits, I do not. I've also said several times that I take both the information provided to me and the 247 information and combine it to form my own opinions.

Want something that they haven't reported? Did you know that if Ford had stayed then DJ Matthews would be a hokie? Did you know that Dax has a little brother, Jack, that is a big UNC fan and Fedora's relationship with his brother was a big part of why they led for him over the summer? Jack came with Dax on his OV and now loves VT as well.

If you think I'm a fraud then don't read my posts. Very simple.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Another difference is that those guys talk directly to recruits, I do not.

well then maybe its time you start tweeting at them duhhh
/S

Did you know that if Ford had stayed then DJ Matthews would be a hokie? Did you know that Dax has a little brother, Jack, that is a big UNC fan and Fedora's relationship with his brother was a big part of why they led for him over the summer? Jack came with Dax on his OV and now loves VT as well.

Damnit LA Hokie, I knew you've been holding out on us. It's about time you gave us something worth knowing.

.....
95% of what I say is sarcastic. The other 5% is usually taken out of context.

LA Hokie just threw a 1-2 combo of death right there

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

You could tell he had all that as a draft and was just waiting for the perfect time to drop the mic

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

LA knows more than me. Due to my schedule this year I don't hear as much but he's not wrong with any of this. Trust the process and trust LA

Sincerly,

BAG

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Or alerting everyone that news was coming the day James Graham committed before anyone on 247 said anything?

Being vague on a big recruiting day makes you nothing more than a palm reader. It also makes it easy to back-track.

(too many loud mouths as it is)

So what's one more?

Want something that they haven't reported? Did you know that if Ford had stayed then DJ Matthews would be a hokie?

I did hear that actually- on 247.

Now you're just being a asshole

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

Sorry, the showboating about info, after its already been mentioned on another site, rubbed me the wrong way.

Yeah, I also get really pissed off when someone is gracious enough to share inside info but isn't the very first one to post it on the entire internet... /s

Everyone likes their information. If anything else it keeps the recruiting threads active and fun to read.

If you don't want to see them share what their sources have said because you think another source has already said it then post it first or don't read.

Bottom line don't be a douche.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Fair enough. Upvote.

it keeps the recruiting threads active and fun to read

But I thought slurping Stanford and the gifs, respectively, had that covered

Broadlands. You speak the truth. That is all.

There are a whole lot of posters that go to 247, get the info, then post somewhere else starting with
"Word on the street..."
"I'm hearing...
"Don't be surprised if..."
etc. etc...
Everybody likes attention, everybody likes to be popular...I'm guilty of posting gifs here for upvotes...it's fun and funny to me.
But long before there were any upvotes/downvotes, there were message boards that focussed on VT recruiting, and some guys had the goods, and they shared info discretely - vaguely... cryptically - but shared it for more purist reasons. They just wanted to share with their kindred spirits, like you would at a tailgate. You oft times were known personally to many posters, though your true identity would (honorably) never be revealed online. The guys with the best stuff had the coaches on speed dial. And they are on 247 and other sites - this one, too, almost certainly - and they change board names, have multiple board names, and different personalities...it's all in good fun. It's entertainment. Sports are SUPPOSED to be a diversion. If you want to fight with somebody, turn off your computer and start a conversation about remodeling the house with your wife! (you young guys...take notes here)

I have been a part of those boards, and I knew long ago that Little City Hokie was a guy with the goods. I could read between the lines. And if you look at his leg count, you can see he isn't here for that, so down vote away. Haha...sorry LCH...that's going to release the hounds! I'm likely to get mine, too, one for one lol.

Bottom line...chill. Read the goods, enjoy the info...just enjoy!

A picture is worth a thousand words. A gif is worth a million.

I mean you realize they could just have different sources right? You can stay on the he only gets info from 247, but you have no proof of that. I don't understand the vitriol here.

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Their are times when you should say something and times to keep your pie hole closed. This instance is the latter bro.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

If the Matthews tidbit was brought up on 247 then I apologize for missing it in the thousands of daily comments on that board.

"Vick's so amazing, that unleashing his skills on some poor defense is almost unsportsmanlike. It's not fair."
- Chris Fowler, ESPN analyst

Honestly LAhokie I always thought that since Holmon Wiggins was from LA that it was possible you were him, I no longer believe that but it has crossed my mind. Am I the only one? Your info is really accurate. Obviously this shows why I am not a detective haha

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Wiltfong with the Artis CB

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

So if Torrian Gray could say "hi" to recruits moms and We don't have WRs leaving to be 7th rounders, we could have Kevin Tolliver and DJ Matthew?

Just keep giving us them goods

I always liked this one a little better

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Needs more rainbow

Once again the recruiting thread has me like...

Is it football season yet?

The collapse thread button is a wonderful thing, just saying.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

I'm not sure the "collapse thread" button will help me read/skim through all the new non related nonsense that seems to pop up on this thread more than all the others.

But a fine recommendation it is sir!

Is it football season yet?

Now we know how Keshon feels about possibly sitting on the bench for 5 years

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Ok Ok, not sitting on the bench per se, just not starting. With all the hype surrounding Dax, he was and is and has always been, the priority over Keshon. Obviously they both have a tremendous amount of talent, but it seems like Dax would be the one, and Keshon would be playing second fiddle

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

If they live up to expectation given their talent level, they will both end up starting somehow. Players frequently get moved around to fill a need at the college level.

One Mike and one Backer maybe?

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

There is room for both of them in that backfield.

Keshon has been a priority for us as well and he is no push over with his film. Quite honestly looking at film both guys can make an immediate impact. Ratings in the end don't mean anything once you get on campus .

Just... why? Why even post that comment?

Let's stick to "Welcome to Hokie Nation, Keshon. Glad to have you on board."

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.


EDIT: THIS ISN'T SARCASTIC
I will try to keep it more positive in the future, sorry for the original comment

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

You do realize they'd play different positions? Don't you?

-@no1hokie86

Don't they both play ILB?

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

ILB could translate to both Mike and Backer and on top of that position changes are almost the norm. If he's one of the 11 best football players on defense he'll find the field.

We also have Dylan Rivers. You'd expect him to be in the Tremaine role in the future (I have a feeling that Tremaine stays and plays next year).

I hope we get Dax. There is nothing wrong with competition. Dax, Rivers, Artis, and Tisdale is a pretty solid group.

Yes, but Artis is projected as a Mike and Dax as a Backer.

-@no1hokie86

4 ⭐️ JUCO CB on campus would be a HUGE add.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Bring it on!

HIs banner on his twitter is all the VT DBs jerseys who have been in the pros.

Commit to Virginia Tech University to play for Fuentes.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Commit to the University of Virginia Tech and Polytechnic Institute and State University to play for Fuentos.

I don't usually post about offers but a couple of new 2019 offers went out that got me excited.

Most recently we offered a 2019 OL, Jesse Hanson from VA (247 link). He's rated as a medium-low 3 star, but to my untrained eye his tape looks pretty good. He moves great for 6-4 290, seems to keep low and more often than not drives his block about 10 yards down field or pancakes them. Since offering him we have now offered the top 3 OL in VA for 2019 (with Donavan Beaver and Antoine Whitner), and each of them look like decent prospects and it seems like we have a shot with them.

A few days ago we offered 2019 WR Cam Hart from MD (247 link). Another tall receiver who runs well. If we could land him and Jacoby Pinckney (another 6-3 WR) with slot guys like Tayvion Robinson (from 757) and Tyquest Terry (from Blacksburg) that could be a great WR haul for 2019.

I think both Hart and Hanson are supposed to visit this weekend. Along with Webb, this weekend might not have the same star power in recruiting as past weekends, but it could end up being a productive weekend for the future.

He's a hoss, 6'7 270. He had offers from UNC, ECU, WVU, among others

Welcome Home, Luke

I was just getting caught up on the elbow drop that LA Hokie dropped earlier this week, which was glorious by the way, only to have you go all Billy Mays at the end

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

He's about 6-7, 270. Wowzers. Also son of Jon Tenuta. Seems like a great get. In Vice we trust?

As a reminder, that's former UVA player, Graduate Assistant, and Defensive Coordinator Jon Tenuta.

Eat it, Hoos.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Wonder why they didn't offer him.

Mmmmmmm......pie.

Must be more of an English muffin guy.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I have been keeping an eye on this McFadden situation and this is just another point that confirms he flips. I always said if McFadden takes an official to Clemson, hes gone. Not sure if that is Fuente's position as it was last year with Capehart? But he deliberated for a while via social media and now looks like hes going Saturday.

Anyhow, big dude and a nice pick up for the Hokies.

https://sportstalksc.com/index.php/2017/11/15/strecruiting-mcfaddens-final-decision-wont-take-long-clemson-visit/

I don't think we're in a position to turn down any quality OL who want to come here

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

So we now have 24 guys in the boat, the max a class can have is 25 right? (Not 100% sure) who do we have left?

Here's my guess at top targets left:

KJ Henry
Rasheed Walker
Dax Hollifield
James Mitchell
Kalon Gervin
Jeremy Webb
Walker Culver

(McFadden may flip)

Of the targets above I am hopeful for Hollifield, Mitchell, Webb, and Culver (if McFadden flips). Anything more would be a welcome surprise.

There are ways of getting around the 25 commit cap such as grey-shirting and prepping...in other words, numbers always work out. I think we are seeing how with Pimpleton transferring and Pettit moving on after this season.

I heard there's something about the new scholarship limit rules that eliminate gray-shirts (delayed enrollment by 1 semester) but I think early enrollees can still count towards either class.

Beck will initially count towards Track and not towards the 25.

-@no1hokie86

Big, if true.

Source? NCAA rule?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I've seen it mentioned on multiple sites. Probably will run track first, then will count towards the 85 total when he starts playing football.

-@no1hokie86

Unless Jugs can provide clarity I don't think NCAA will allow that to happen.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

If he doesn't work out / practice with the football team during his FR season I think it's allowable.

That's the rumored plan.

-@no1hokie86

I would be shocked if he didn't practice, workout or do position meetings with the team.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Might end up shocked then. Would be on football scholarship starting Fall '19.

-@no1hokie86

Or until a scholarship unexpectedly opens up for football. Then he could do both.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

So your telling me a kid going on a P5 football scholarship is going to take more than 12 months away from football?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This staff got the WF wr to turn down a scholar to be a pwo at VT

They are working voodoo

So your telling me a kid going on a P5 football scholarship is going to take more than 12 months away from football?

Yes that is what they are telling you.

He can be on a track scholarship so he is likely getting his tuition covered. He is an elite track athlete. If you think it's that absurd consider this story: Top 100 Player Greyshirts for Alabama

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

He still only missed one semester.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He wasn't on a scholarship from Alabama during that semester either.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Correct, but Beck if he goes under track scholarship he would have to stay away from the team until summer at a minimum not just one semester.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Are you 100% sure about that? I honestly don't know the answer but it seems possible he would be able to join the football team in the spring similar to an early enrollee counting toward the next year's signees.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Everyone say it with me:

THE

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

NUMBERS

SOMETIMES

ALWAYS

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

DANCE

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The evil side of me wants to see the panic of the numbers not working out.

/evil-post

Having the numbers not work is how you become NCSU.

Don't become NCSU

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

What happened at NCSu?

They backed off Artis because the numbers weren't working

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

...ooooor they're flipping Payton Wilson and cooled on Artis, depending on who you ask which message boards you've been reading.

I know it's all speculation, but you have to treat all of it the same way. If you give credence to the VT take on it, then you have to consider the NCSU take as well.

Either way, I'm pretty damned stoked that Artis is a Hokie. Future is 'bright AF' at linebacker, moves immediately to 'utterly blinding' if we can close on Dax.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

#SAUCES SAY LAWSON IS TRANSFERRING

Did I TKP right?? Guys?

- "And now Miami wants to talk about it..."

Yes, but I believe even that "25" is not set in stone since there's ways around it. Players who enroll early count for the previous year, some of those commits can go JUCO, so they wouldn't count against that year's numbers. Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the saying goes like this:

"The numbers always work out. Always."

--Edit-- Never too early to start drinking. It is Friday, after all.

If a guy signs and then goes juco, it counts against '18

In the realm of "the numbers always work out", Colt Pettit will be taking part in the senior day events. He is a junior, but is apparently going to finish up at Tech this year.

That helps the overall numbers, but does not open another spot in the '18 class

correct.

But Chung didn't because he's petitioning for a 6th year.

So many offers going out. Twitter is lit up.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Looks like Cam'ron Kelly has committed to UGA

Rather then than LOLUVA.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

We have a year still. Lets see if Artis can change his mind.

Where did you see this? I'm not seeing it on 247.

His twitter account.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I hope Jeremy Webb saw how well coached Facyson and Stroman were today, and I hope someone was continually reminding him that both of those guys are seniors. Early playing time isn't everything, but if he wants a chance to win a starting job right away, we have to be the top choice. We have two seniors and a junior as our 3 man "starting" corner rotation, and the junior might go early to the NFL (though I have no idea how his injury will affect that decision and it's too early to worry about it too much).