OT: Burn it to the ground - US misses World Cup

The other thread was killing my mobile browser, so why not start a post mortem discussion on the truly embarrassing state of United States soccer.

Quite frankly, missing out on this World Cup is truly an embarrassment of the highest regard. Everyone associated with the USSF deserves to be fired and replaced and there needs to be a very serious discussion about fixing what is wrong. There is no excuse for the losses they've taken and finishing 5th in the hex of 6. First World Cup we will miss since 1986 and on the heels of being named a host in 2026.

Anyway, discuss/vent/do your thing, TKPlayers

Edit: I don't think anyone could possibly sum up the feelings better than Taylor Twellman on ESPN last night

Bob Ley chimed in as well later on to set some perspective on why Americans should be incredibly frustrated and angry over this result. "This makes the Hindenburg look like a safe landing"

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Comments

Honestly I'm not surprised.

I'd just like to talk about the fact that FOX paid $400 million for the rights to this World Cup and the 2022 one as well. There's a good chance we don't qualify for both of them.

I mean what did we expect after replacing Klinsmann with Bruce fucking "MLS is King" Arena to fix what was wrong. That was a shit hire back then and it's a horrible hire now. Klinsmann's losses were to CRC and Mexico. Arena shit the sheets against Honduras, Panama and both Trinidad and Tobago. Yeah, he'd get us there, oooh yeah.

Literally
Fire
Everyone

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

No, seriously... We trusted a Wahoo to get the job done.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

It reminds me of firing Ruffin McNeill for Scottie Montgomery. Sure the first guy wasn't incredible but at least WE WERE FUCKING WINNING.

Lets review the tape...about the winning comment.
Klinsmann was 55-27-16 64.3% winning perc.
Bruce was 75-27-28 the first stint, 68.1%
Bruce was 10-6-2 the second stint, 72.2%
Bruce had a 68.6% winning perc.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Last night: 0.00% winning percentage.

Chem PhD '16

me thinks you're including friendlies which isnt exactly fair

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

How not fair? Similar rosters...and still want to win as a team...
My point was to the comment that we should have kept Jurgen because he was winning. With similar records, or maybe even a worse one, one can summize that a similar result would have been dealt to us if he was still at the helm. And that Bruce isn't markedly worse than Jurgen.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

friendlies usually come with more substitutions and are played for the purpose of figuring things out and getting into game form. In most cases, the final score is very much a minor consideration of the game itself.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Numbers withOUT friendlies...So WC, WCqual, Gold Cup, Confed Cup, etc...anything "important" that wasn't a friendly.
Jurgen. 54 games 33w-5d-16l 65.7%
Bruce rd 1. 69 games 41w-12d-16l 68.1%
Bruce rd 2. 14 games 8w-4d-2l 71.4%

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

well because jurgen experimented a ton in friendlies in an attempt to get new fresh faces out there. Its not the winning percentage and that attitude is exactly whats gotten US soccer into this predicament. We lack any sort of an identity and consistency, its all about results not about style. Well that'll catch up to you once you start playing in big-boy leagues and here we are.

the need for technical players must be increased, and jurgen tried to adopt a more modern approach than arena's style of sit deep and boot. The man doesn't do tactics often and tells players to go out and play...thats not how the game is played in this day and age and if you want proof look at jose mourinho or pep gourdiola tactical analysis. Its not that our results were that markedly different its that we made a change 2 games into qualifying and brought in a completely different style of play, that frankly DIDNT suit the style of players we have. If you wanna sit back and setup shop, thats fine and dandy (even though I disagree) but you better have some organized and focused defenders, which matt besler and omar gonzales certainly do not fit the build. Where in the hell was fabian johnson as well?! quite possibly our second most talented player. No the whole reason Arena was brought back was so that the MLS could pat itself on the back as their golden boy succeeded again. Well he didn't and he is just as much if not more to blame than anyone else, and his style of play has been absolutely atrocious, we came out looking for a draw against T&T are you kidding me?! In that position, with the world cup on the line, after humiliating panama a few days ago, on an absolute shit field (shitty fields make more unpredictable things happen) you want to setup shop and play for a draw? Then to make matters worse you dont flood the middle of the pitch or adjust tactically to what T&T were doing?! Oh and you're holding onto that all important third sub for what?! its the 80th minute, you're down a goal to a team you should be walking off the pitch and you dont think a change is necessary? Give me a damn break, Arena absolutely failed yesterday and proved his lack of tactical acumen and inability to adjust in a game. Also yes I do believe a team like Iceland could have qualified from CONCACAAF and we absolutely would not have qualified in Europe

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Klinsmann was also playing European friendlies on the reg. Klinsmann should have never been fired

Ah, the downvote for bringing stats and logic into things...nice.
I was saying that no matter who was at the helm, we weren't going to qualify. Was it the players on the field? Was it the preparation? Was it the switch in the middle of the hex? Was it just set up for failure with the system for the previous 4 years? Who knows...

But the statement that Jurgen won more games than Bruce is false. I'm not taking a side, I'm not saying Bruce gave us that much better of a chance, I'm not saying Jurgen was trash. I'm just showing the numbers, that are real numbers, that Bruce won more games and a better percentage than Jurgen.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

lol wasnt me

and thats fine and dandy about the stats but you're not taking things into account like average ratings of teams we played against and length at the helm and talent to work with. Arena had quite possibly the golden generation of US soccer coming through, with a young michael bradley, clint dempsey, and (cringe) landon donovan to go with a keeper playing for manchester united (tim howard) coupled with an elite defender playing for AC milan (albeit he got hurt a lot) and the leftovers from our best world cup run ever. What did he do as coach? Parked the bus every freaking week, flooded the centre of the pitch and played kick - it - long to donovan. Jurgen had a super moody landon donovan clint dempsey who he certainly made the most of, a past his prime jermaine jones and tim howard and michael bradley. He also had to attempt to build youth through the mess that Bob Bradley and Arena left him. The problem with all of this comes back to Arena and Bradley didn't properly scout players for most of their tenures.

I've been saying this for a long time, you can find the real impact of a coach years down the line when you can see how they properly scouted and groomed the next generation. For Jurgen his legacy lasts with players like matt miazga, christian pulisic, julian green (fair hes a bust), sargeant, zelalem (still hoping he works out) Palmer-brown, Weston McKennie, Jonathan Gonzalez, Tyler Adams, John Brooks, and Andrew - Carlton. This is imo the most important job of mens national team coaches; grooming players for the future. We have a total hole in talent from the age groups of 24 -32 (outside of michael bradley annnnnnd yedlin and a few others i may be forgetting) these are the teams that bob bradley developed, and bruce arena developed at the tail end of his career. I dont think there weren't any players, I just dont think they were developed or brought along properly. THAT is absolutely 100% on Bruce arena and Bob Bradley and THAT is why i have an axe to grind against him (and his lack to make tactical adjustments or sound reasonable decisions leading to the game)

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I hope we leave Bruce like USC left Lane.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

I'm still in shock. There was no heart or effort from the team tonight. I cant believe it. On mobile so I can't embed but Jermaine Jones is laying it down.

And everybody talked shit about Jürgen!!! Ridiculous stupid.... man I get too much!!! I feel sorry for the boys!

This is going to get ugly.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Embed.

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Thanks!

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

This team really could have used him. No matter the age. No matter when injured or not.

thats the thing he ALWAYS gave his all in the US jersey even his last few games he always gave it everything

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I'm flabbergasted. Didn't get a chance to watch any of the game. How did this happen?

I would literally fire everyone that works in the building and start from scratch. Unthinkable for the U.S. to miss out on the world cup, the sport will lose all of the forward momentum it had towards going mainstream.

It was like watching a high school team play. Zero creativity and no one even attempting to get 50-50 balls. I literally watched our defense stand flat footed while Tim Howard was one on one with an opposing player near the edge of the 18 on the touch line..

It was hard to watch the game. You either had to get a 7 day trial to a streaming service or watch it in Spanish (on directv).

Soccer in this country can't be taken seriously until a game like this is on a mainstream English channel.

To make it worse there were more fans at a uva spring game than this game.

If you have verizon wireless, you could have streamed it for free with free data through the Go90 app.

"Facyson is a baller."
-CFB

Every USMNT game should be on a major network (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, ESPN)...and if not every game, then at least every tournament game, and especially World Cup qualifying.

You are looking live at US Soccer HQ.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

man it doesnt matter, we shit the bed

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

You know what would have avoided this?

Not losing to Trinidad and Tobago. The same Trinidad and Tobago who hadn't won in 2017. Couldn't do that.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

but were still having a good year guys! god this is as hallow as the champions of life bullshit.

massive /s

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Ain't a damn way in the world from that video to determine if that balled crosses or not. Might as well be determining if someone got a 1st down on a QB sneak with 6 inches to gain.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Not only is that clearly not a goal in both angles but also a hand ball.

Yeah so that's not even close. Still. Don't lose to Trinidad and you don't put your fate in someone's hands.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

yeah, in the other thread somebody mentioned getting jobbed by concacaf. In no way am I surprised to wake up this morning and find out that a ref from a 3rd world banana republic reffing a game in a third world banana republic would fuck up a call like that. I'm usually REALLY not into conspiracy theories, but something about FIFA in general, and concacaf in particular makes me a believer.

Still, don't fucking lose to Trinidad and Tobago. Ever.

I've been drinking.

I don't even know how to express how flustered/angry/embarrassed I feel. We were warned about the development of our players and we didn't listen. Now, we are eliminated from the World Cup by a country with a population of 1.3 million. Sad thing is, I don't think we would've beaten the Australians in a playoff.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

We were warned about the development of our players and we didn't listen.

Can you fill me in on this?

Feel so bad for Pulisic.

I feel worse for Deuce, Bradley, and Howard. Pulisic will have a few more shots.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I don't feel bad for them at all. All veteran players that are supposed to be leaders. They're as responsible as anybody else for the lack of effort.

They're as responsible as anybody else for the lack of effort.

Anybody else but Pulisic?

It's just sad that their careers could end on a note like this. Not defending the effort so much as feeling for three guys whose time is running out.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

10 put the only goal on the board last night. He showed up!

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Fairplay, I think he played great as well. I was trying to make a point about blanket statements.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Don't forget that Omar put the first goal on the board!

"Facyson is a baller."
-CFB

I will say that I specifically feel bad for Pulisic because he actually chose to play for the USA. Klinsmann was good at getting players who were eligible for the USA but also eligible for other eurpean nations and convinced them to play. So here is a kid who is literally the best talent we maybe have ever had and gets shafted by a mediocre coach and a terrible performance. The kid plays with heart and passion each and every game and it has to be so degrading to watch the rest of the team laze around knowing you didn't have to choose the USA.

It was a choice between the US and Croatia...

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

yeah Croatia has a pretty good team with 2 world class midfielders an exceptional winger and a pretty good forward (modric, rakitic, perisic, and mandzukic)

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

And they are in the world cup play offs this year, they play in the Euro cup (higher quality opponents) and it means he doesn't have to travel across the atlantic for every call up. He wanted to play because he saw the upward trajectory of US soccer. I feel bad because with Arena that trajectory no longer exists and the team he could have played for is doing the exact thing the US failed to do yesterday.

Imagine being Julian Green or Aron Johannsson

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Ha.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

I hope this clown never gets to coach again for the rest of his life

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Fuck that guy. Leave his Wahoo ass on the tarmac while you fly back.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Proof that the man has no effing clue.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Saw a PL game where Cameron played well after coming back from injury. Flabbergasted how we leave him on the bench unless he was hurt. I love the two that were playing in this game, but they are Championship and not sure where the goal scorer plays. Cameron is legit PL material.

I thought we played a 4-4-2 last game. This game it was a 4-2-3-1.

I thought we played confused in the formation and left way too much room on the wings. Our outside 3s at times got sucked in and we payed for it. Once behind in soccer you have to be able to pass in tight spaces and be creative. We don't have enough of that on this team.

Pain is Temporary
Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever
Let's Go Hokies!!

Video of Bruce in the USSF office this morning.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?

'07 Mechanical Engineering

“It’s not a date, where you need to like somebody. It’s a get-after-it session is what it is.”
-Frank Beamer

See, the thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

"I believe that we are trash! I believe that we are trash!"

In all seriousness, can we start rubbing the crap out of our eyes and realize the MLS is not preparing young players and certainly not doing the national team any favors by bringing our older guys back for ridiculously more money than they are worth? (Looking at Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, etc.) Jurgen had it right in using international players instead of lining the squad with US based players.

The international players were the only ones really worth a crap in the hex.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Worst part is the rest of the world laughing at us, Bruce's mls arrogance cost the whole country it's pride, if I were him I'd go ahead and book a flight from T&T to ANYWHERE but the US cause there are a lot of salty fans after this shit storm

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Jurgen ironically brought them back with his mandate that they be playing internationally (starting).

Everyone tucked tale and ran home to ensure starting. Had Jurgen said we evaluate each player on the basis of what we expect they bring to camp. Should they not show that at camp we will swap them out. Jurgen is still coach and this team is a more capable team with more guys playing internationally.

I'm glad I'm doing demo work tomorrow nothing cures anger like taking out a wall, Bruce arena is gonna go bye bye and don't be surprised to see this get really really ugly folks

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

F*** firing Bruce. He is what he is and you know what you are gonna get with him. He'll do a good enough job coaching somewhere.

Sunil gotta go.

Happy bye week, y'all!!! As in buh-bye USMNT. Wow. Just embarrassing.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

i would lay waste to all of USA soccer federation. Get new, younger blood in there. Fire EVERYONE.

Tab needs to be in charge. The youth teams seem to be playing better, more concerted together.

One last thought watching the game I saw nothing from the players on the field to suggest other than pulisic that this really meant anything to them which makes it even worse not only did Bruce bring the wrong players but these players didn't even understand what they had to do and when they failed they just kinda said meh oh well

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

now i don't have to miss it on purpose.

Virginia Tech Class of 2013
Mining and Minerals Engineering

Sailing the Eastern Seas....on a ship filled with sand....

Ordering my Iceland jersey now.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

SKOL!

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Just as bad, if not worse, is Holland failing to qualify. I ain't that mad, coz FUCK Putin. This'll be the first world cup of my adult life i won't watch.

Just sad man. We didn't do enough over ten games.

I thought Bruce was the right choice to take over for Klinsmann. I still do believe that because it was in our hands on the final day. You can't really fault him for tonight because he chose the same side that waxed Panama a few days earlier, for me it's on the players. Maybe one or two deserve to wear a US shirt again. Unspeakably terrible performance from the lot of them. Still, it was a bizarre own goal and an absolute screamer did us in. Make no excuses, if we can't draw Trinidad we don't deserve to be at the World Cup.

Positives: another good crop of youngsters are starting to break through. Let's get the core of the young guys (Pulisic, Yedlin, Acosta, Arriola, Miazga, Carter-Vickers, Gooch, Morris, Sargent, ect) and just let them be the senior team from here until 2022. They should be in every call up. They should play the majority of the minutes. Give the youngsters a good run.

But overall. A sad, sad day for US soccer.

Always choose joy.

You can't really fault him for tonight

Sure I can. We were in this position due to his terrible tactics and we finished poorly in consistent fashion. We waxed Panama thanks to wonderful individual efforts from our forwards.

Arena is a bad coach.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Arena's club has been knocked out of the Open Cup for 3 straight years by the same amateur squad. He's also the one that keeps allowing his buddy Omar back in the lineup. As well as his desire to play a 442 with Bradley as the only midfield shield for our crap defense.

But the proof is in the pudding now. He failed to do the one job he was given. He can go dawdle around the MLS for the rest of his days while Landon Donovan waxes poetic from the press box. As long as he's far far away from the USMNT.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Arena's club has been knocked out of the Open Cup for 3 straight years by the same amateur squad

say what you want about NASL but dammit we pay I think all of the players with NCFC (fka Railhawks).... So, professional, not amateurs...

But point taken

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Yeah true enough. It's not even that I think the NASL is a bunch of chumps off the street either, but I think the expectation is that an MLS team would beat them at least once in 3. Not with Bruce at the helm though.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Bruce would routinely play his 3rd string in those matchups. He literally did not care about the Open Cup, and almost played them to lose so they could focus on the MLS schedule. I think in the last loss, he didn't even care enough to bring Donovan off the bench when losing late.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I love some NCFC beat downs on the MLS. NC hokie here...and yeah they get paid. NC hoping to be MLS soon.

Dude arena failed spectacularly, we had plenty of chances to crack the top 4. Tell me what improved since klinnsman was fired? we lost to Costa Rica again and crashed and burned against trinidad

arenas tactics were absolutely atrocious and we never imposed our will like we have in recent years. results are much more predictable when you impose your will than hoofing it long along the flanks

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

We'll agree to disagree on Arena. I thought he was fine. At a certain point, the players have to perform. They came out flat against Mexico on MD1. Never boarded the flight to Costa Rica the next day. Showed nothing at home to Costa Rica and nothing tonight against Trinidad.

Blame the coaches. Blame the players. Doesn't really matter who right now. All that matters is we were in a good position to qualify for the World Cup heading into tonight after starting 0-2. Fact of the matter is, on the day we were not good enough. That's what it boils down to. If you want to have a go at Arena, have a go. If you want to have a go at the players, have a go. Neither of them got the job done. Everyone here failed. It doesn't mean it was the wrong choice in the moment because had you given me the prospect of only needing a draw in Trinidad and Tabago (and then Honduras and Panama overturning halftime deficits) after losing our first two matches, I would have bitten your hand off for that opportunity and most of everyone here would too.

Always choose joy.

youre really overreacting to starting 0-2 there were 6 teams we had to finish above 2 of them to hit a playoff spot. we failed to get results against some really shitty teams and finished above one team in concaaf. If i had been bitching and moaning that we didnt hit the top 2 thats fine and dandy, but we easily had time to hit the top 4. he didnt prepare our guys (who yes deserve some blame) he didnt have sound tactics, and his statements to the press were some of the dumbest sound bits id heard in a while. he was in charge of 80% of our games in this qualifying round the blame is squarely on his shoulders and he deserves tons of shit. it never should have been this close. take care of business against honduras or literally anyone and the problem is solved.

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I mean, a point in either game gets us to Russia, so I don't think it's necessarily an overreaction. (also yes, a point at home to CRC or Trinidad, gets us there too).

Fact is we lost two games at home that you can't lose in a Hex. One was Bruce. One was Jurgen. We didn't take care of a business at home. End of. Tonight should never have mattered. If you wanna talk about at Panama and Honduras, fine. Should we have won one of those? Probably considering we beat them 10-0 at home. Fine.

Either way. Blame whoever yall wanna blame. We weren't good enough over 10 games. Period.

Always choose joy.

Either way. Blame whoever yall wanna blame. We weren't good enough over 10 games. Period.

This just sounds so soft. Like just how the USA soccer organization is. I know many people support Bruce or supported Jurgen but come on. This isn't some small potatoes loss that we can just say, oh yeah we weren't good enough today but we will come back stronger. We flamed out of the WC in spectacular fashion. For a country of 350+million and, not to be boastful or prideful here, the amount of money that we could conceivably throw at soccer...it is top notch horse manure that we didn't qualify.

There was an incredible amount of forward momentum in soccer in this country with the hire and successes of Jurgen Klinsmann. That momentum has sufficiently been killed with Burce's boring tactics and now huge failure to qualify for the WC. I am not saying Bruce is a bad coach (he clearly has maintained success wherever he goes) he was clearly not the correct hire for the US program. And Sunil has got to go too...its organizational.

"you had some very fine coaches on both sides..."

The fact that you can defend Arena after watching the god-awful soccer he's produced and watching him lose to T&T to miss the WC for the first time in 7 cycles is mind boggling...

Yeah the players are at fault too, but Arena is the captain of the ship, HAS to be better. No excuse.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Jurgen lost to Mexico and Costa Rica

Arena lost to Trinidad, Costa Rica, and Drew against Mexico and Honduras in a miracle last second shot.

The quality of losses heavily favors Jurgen, and it's not like Arena had any real good wins. Oh, we whipped Panama last week. Yeah, that ended up mattering...

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

For what it's worth I thought it was stupid to fire Jurgen and really it was either Bruce or Bradley to turn to. Because when you need points in a Hex, if you turn to someone who doesn't know the international game, that is an extreme risk. In the moment, it was the right call. We just needed a draw against Trinidad and Tobago damnit. Tonight was an utter failure, but that doesn't mean the Arena hire was absolutely wrong. Hindsight is always 20/20. Where would we be with Klinsmann? Where would we be with Coach X. No one knows. All we know is we are out of the World Cup and have to look forward to building from a talented crop of youth players.

Always choose joy.

Not sure I buy everything this guy says, but Brian S. wrote and article about our development gap that maintains we are in for a brutal few years upcoming.

The Missing Years

Sunil gotta be held accountable. Gotta go.

Bruce arena post game "There is nothing wrong with what we're doing[the US]"

You can't fix stupid folks!

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

It's not often I watch a full video on ESPN.

This is worth it.

Click here.

TIL Belgium played Bosnia on a cow pasture.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Best mic drop he could have used

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I'm mostly just depressed right now. I know there's lots of people very angry tonight, and deservedly so. Of course Bruce is getting axed, cause there's zero reason to keep him at this point since we'll just be building up for 4 years...

Gulati is likely gone after this debacle too, one way or another.

I also think there's a hell of a lot of misplaced anger at MLS and the development process in our country, especially in the here and now. We're starting to produce a bunch of talented teenagers that are getting serious looks from teams abroad. If there's criticism to be given, it's how things were done in the past that leaves you with a big generational gap between the likes of the Jozy/Bradley group and the young crop headlined by Pulisic.

There are real flaws to address is US Soccer, but I think youth development in our country, especially among the MLS ranks, is stronger than it's ever been.

Tonight sucks, and there are problems we'll have to figure out, but I'm much more optimistic about the future of the game in the US at this moment in time than many seem to be.

From the top down, US men's Soccer is broken. From the Federation to the MLS to development programs to youth soccer, it all needs an overhaul.

It starts with firing Gulati.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Not sure we can gut it all. There are some pieces that need picking up polishing to become the cornerstone of the future.

This could be a blessing. In 2004, Germany lost all their games at the euros. They asked themselves "how do we fix this?". The rest is history. I only wish England had done the same last summer.

Well, at least there's US Women's Soccer

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

The USWNT has far better individual players, coaches, and team as a whole.

....for now....

The reason we look so good at Women's Soccer is that we historically have invested the most in the international game. But that is changing with European women's soccer starting to take off, with most of the major clubs offering legitimate salaries to prop up the game overseas. And once that train gets rolling, and they get any kind of momentum, they'll soar past the US in development, as we just don't have the infrastructure set up to compete like that.

And there's also the problem that this failure by the Men's Team is going to negatively impact the support of the Women's Team as well. US apathy and frustration toward soccer is gender blind, and it doesn't help the women's cause at all to see this happen, because its going to decrease viewership of their games, which always lagged behind as it was.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I get your frustration, I truly do. But interest in soccer has never been as strong as it is right now, and the fact that we're all venting about this encouraging. 10 years ago I doubt a thread like this would've even existed. With the decline of interest in American football (i.e. NFL) you can bet that some of those kids will play soccer instead. It will take time to fill the gap but the USA will be back and stronger than ever.

What's really missing is the infrastructure. From a global perspective, the USSF is very much at an amateur level compared to the "big" countries. Give it time, it's not as bad as it seems.

Did you know that England didn't qualify for the 1994 World Cup (or the 2008 Euros)? It's not the end of the world, it just feels like it. We'll be back.

I think you're missing what I'm saying a little bit. Yes, soccer in the US is popular, and as popular as it has ever been, but there will be fallout from this WC miss, and unfortunately, the apathy will be felt the most by the USWNT, because their WC is right on the heels of the men's. But even if that doesn't happen, my comment was mostly about how, if the women's game overseas starts to leverage the developmental programs and model that the European men's game uses, they will quickly surpass the USWNT in depth and skill. We've long been the best because we're the ones who cared the most. In many ways, we were the trailblazers for the women's game, but there hasn't been much done to really grow the women's game in the US, and we've long rested on the laurels of college soccer (UNC) finding the best players, and having those girls win at the international stage. That won't last forever, and I don't see any real work being done to really improve that situation, whereas I'm now seeing clubs like Barca, PSG, Chelsea, etc start to develop women's programs, and that's potentially a long term problem for the US.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

What's most frustrating is that I don't know who to blame.

Do we blame Jurgen for jacking with our rosters and tactics? Do we blame Bruce for being too one-dimensional and stale with his approach? Do we blame Sunil for hiring both of those guys? Do we blame the MLS for not being a good place to learn competitive international soccer? Do we blame the players for not being able to string together two good performances? Do we "blame" the increase in talent in the rest of CONCACAF? Do we blame the crap conditions at all the other CONCACAF stadiums?

Right now all I know is that, US Soccer, I love you but I am so mad at you.

Guess I'm cheering for England next year. Bruce arena sucks But not the way Primus sucks

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

Don't get your hopes up

I'm actually intrigued by the England team. I think they make a semifinal run or they flame out in the Groups. Not really sure what to think right now.

Always choose joy.

I gotta cheer for my Tottenham boys

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

So how about the good USNT the women how are they looking? Does this kind of poor performance by the men finally get them some more respect?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yeah. Unlike the men's, they actually win shit (and a lot of it).

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

They get so much more done.

TIME TO PAY THE LADIES!!!

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Arena was a cheap hire, and we were rewarded by not qualifying for the World Cup for the first time since the Cold War. It all starts at the top. This team made it out of the group of death and nearly beat Belgium in the round of 16 just a little over 3 years ago, and here we are now. That is an epic collapse.

We've got another 4 years before we're in this same exact position. We have a lot of work to do in between now and then. Time to part ways with several of the older guys and invest in our youth.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Good article.
One thing missing is the rise of club/travel soccer. It was around before, but not to the level it is now (and has been for the past 5 years or so.) The academy kids might play a few tournaments here and there, but not the number that some club teams do.

Take the #1 U19 club team in the country, Baltimore Celtic Christos. In the past year they have played 42 games. That's just for the club. Throw in a couple of weeks to that year, and at the U19 age, most played high school last year, with up to 20 games or so, and add in college this year, with potentially another 20 games, and that's 80 games or so in 60 weeks! It's easy to get in a rut, take a jog in a game or two, have it not mean quite as much. When you play that much soccer, the games stop meaning as much each time. There is literally always tomorrow. No do or die mentality.

Now take SAC Blue premier 99. I promise I'm not picking on them...but using as an example. They are the #10 team in the state of Maryland. And played 35 club games over the past year. With a win % of 38.7. Keep signing up, keep playing, we're getting points. Not winning a thing...but darn if we aren't ranked!!!!!! It starts losing it's meaning when you play that much, and get rewarded for not winning.

That being said, the senior team should have the nose for it. Only getting to play a handful of meaningful games a year, they should be ready. I get things were weird with the field, and the stadium, and the weather, and the refs, and blah blah blah, but if you put the onion in the bag you are going to overcome those obstacles. No excuses because there literally is no tomorrow for the senior team.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Many of those Celtic kids have deliberately sidestepped DA to play HS.

DA (is often) is pitched as development through playing versus development through practice. Idea is that a higher percentage of soccer time is spent in game versus less advanced players need more time in practice. IMHO this is not a very correct trade-off. Soccer requires skill. When you see many DA / DA caliber teams their skill levels aren't where they should be in order to commit so much of their futures to the sport.

Celtic has really good coaches. Why do these coaches allow these kids to not play DA, play HS, play relatively crappy local teams? IMHO it comes down to being able to play the beautiful game requires a crazy amount of time with the ball. Personally I'd take the HS skill levels of 30 years ago (yes I'm getting old) over the skill levels of DA kids. Yes the athleticism is higher with DA, but that is a function of the dispersion of physical talent. Without regard to whether I am right or not, the Celtic POV is an interesting one that should be considered. Right now we've got fewer (DA) kids with significant investment versus 30 years ago we had more kids with less significant investment, perhaps more time with the ball.

You are totally misreading the points thing on gotsoccer. My guess is gotsoccer is or was somehow in league with the tournaments and teams to encourage exactly the behaviour you're engaging in. The SAC kids are pretty aware of where they stand when it comes to tournament seedings, performance. Same with parents, girlfriends, etc. But you're not ragging on them?

I'd rather have more club teams with better coaching than the current high levels of investment in DA kids. Would like to see more of the open club team tournaments at state team level where we see who wins from a coaching perspective and see if we can't reward successful coaches? DA model or club team model? Lastly I'd say the club team thing is very detrimental to the incorporation of lower income kids into the game. Right now US soccer is like polo with horses.

JMHO

I've said a few things about SAC being a money grab club. They spawned a few others in the Balt-Wash corridor because it was all about the cash for the club. (I heard they made in the neighborhood of $10mil last year, based on the tournaments, field rentals, and hotel kick-backs from required-to-stay deals.)

The #9 team in the state, with a losing record, just happens to be one of their teams. The point I was making is that points are simply racked up at a great pace when you play A LOT of games. That doesn't mean you are better than the #17 team, or the #33 team, or anyone. Just that you have played more and racked up more points. Sure, they can say they are top 10 in the state, but with a losing record what does that truly mean? See how that can be translated to the US team and how the drive isn't there?

We had the #26 team last year in the state. And waxed the floor with the #8 team. Destroyed them 4-0. Wasn't even close. They also had a losing record. They played like 40 games last year...top brackets, and had around a .500 record. Good on them for being top 10, but it means squat. The points system is greatly flawed because it rewards playing over and over and over. Like I said, when there truly is a game tomorrow, today's game doesn't mean as much. Who cares if you lose...you can press reset and just have another go at it. That attitude needs changing.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Put Sunil Gulati and everyone of his US Fed/MLS cronies on a barge, ship it out to sea, and sink the motherfucker to the deepest part of the ocean

I am incredibly fucking pissed. I have had this summer circled on my calender since I moved to Russia 5 years ago. Fire everybody. Even the kids in development league. Even the moms who bring oranges for halftime for the kids in development league. Fire everyone!

As one of those dads who brings oranges, I would be more than happy to be fired.

Is there severance?

That's fucking brutal. I rarely look at who makes a post, I got to the end of the first line and immediately thought
"oh fuck, poor HSIR that's terrible". Then looked up at your name...

sure enough.

I've been drinking.

leg and commiserations for being stuck in Russia

Except for the ladies,

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Well, at least we know we'll make the cup finals in 2026...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Great, we're the UVA of world soccer.

.....
95% of what I say is sarcastic. The other 5% is usually taken out of context.

But wait, isn't their men's soccer actually pretty good???

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I can't remember, is UVA getting better or is just because lolboise and loluconn are fucking terrible?

I've been drinking.

what ussf needs to do is bring in a coach from a successful soccer power (like spain, italy, france, germany); someone who isn't afraid to give young players playing internationally or dual citizens a chance, and someone who isn't afraid to call out MLS and their lack of youth development.

in all seriousness arena is a prick and this is what we get for hiring him. firing JK was a reactionary move sparked by don garber(MLS commissioner) so that we could get more company men in the system. ussf needs a total overhaul

in all seriousness arena is a prick and this is what we get for hiring him. firing JK was a reactionary move sparked by don garber(MLS commissioner) so that we could get more company men in the system. ussf needs a total overhaul

Klinsmann is the exact kind of person we need to fix this thing. I'd go so far as to say they do whatever it takes to get him leading USSF and allow him the freedom to completely gut the system from within including a complete overhaul of the MLS/NASL/USL model, a rethinking of collegiate soccer and it's importance, and instituting how own guy at the head of the national teams.

Yes, there is a lot of money that could be lost with changes like this, but there is more at risk with missing more World Cups.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

what ussf needs to do is bring in a coach from a successful soccer power (like spain, italy, france, germany); someone who isn't afraid to give young players playing internationally or dual citizens a chance, and someone who isn't afraid to call out MLS and their lack of youth development.

I'm sorry I just had to laugh when i read this...the person you are thinking of is named: Jurgen Klinsmann. We had him. We fired him.

Look at it objectively. Our talent pool is not the largest, our country is quite controversial at the moment, we had a world class internation coach and fired him...Our organizational structure looks pitiful. The path to international stardom is incredibly vague at best in this country. (take england for example: get signed by professional club as a youth player, climb the ranks, start for said professional club, international team takes notice...boom international call up.)

What self-respecting top tier coach is willing to take the risk, especially after seeing the Klinsmann era, when the alternative is staying in europe and getting to coach in euro cup and WC.

Bottom line is we had our chance with Klinsmann, we wasted it, we will be truly lucky to ever have a chance like that again.

when he has taken us the farthest we have ever gone in a world cup.

Actually, that was Bruce Arena in 2002. We were a German handball off the line away from the semi-finals. Not barely holding on to get to OT in the round of 16 against Belgium due to a Herculean effort by Tim Howard. We've made the round of 16 four times: 1994, 2002, 2010, and 2014, winning once, 2-0 against Mexico in 2002. Klinsmann didn't take us anywhere we hadn't been before.

Klinsmann didn't take us anywhere we hadn't been before.

Hey hey Arena did, like not making the world cup.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

fair play, got my stats wrong.

That's what I thought when I first saw that comment. Uhhhh, what self respecting

coach from a successful soccer power (like spain, italy, france, germany)

is going to come here after watching what we did to jurgen?

I've been drinking.

I imagine a ton will be interested. European nations go through managers faster than Trump goes through Press Secretaries.. Also, take a look at south of the boarder - how many coaches have they had in the past few years? If anything we are painfully easy on our coaches and our team. I imagine that a European coach will not be afraid of "the crucible" that is the national team coach for the USA.

With that said, I think if we are looking abroad for coaches for our region, I think we need to look to South America. Soccer (Futbol) down there is arguably better than in Europe, they do not have nearly as many resources and they are used to long flights and terrible playing conditions during qualifiers. We should try and model the USA after Argentina or Uruguay rather than Germany or Italy in my opinion...

Sounds good but I'll disagree with the south American coach. We don't have the ability or players capable of playing that style. It would be like Ben Roethlisberger running the Georgia Tech offense.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

not really sure I follow your logic. Some of the best managers in the world come from Argentina and coach in Europe. I can't imagine that we are better equipped to play like Germany or Belgium than anywhere in South America. My point is - they have the chops to compete at the highest level and can grind out a result in tough conditions and long distance travel. With that said, I don't know of any specific coach that fits that - it's all theoretical but I think we need to look to South America for inspiration on how to improve US soccer in general and not look to Europe as much.

You know...I do disagree with your previous comments that it would be relatively easy to find a high caliber european coach willing to come to the US, for many reasons, not the least of which is the way the USA and its citizens are portrayed abroad. That being said I do agree with going after a South American coach for the reasons you stated. I follow the EPL closely and it never ceases to baffle me when a coach complains about a field being slightly dry or wet and how that truly disrupted their play. It just sounds like the worst excuse ever. If they were on the field during warmups, they would know this and also know how to compensate--afterall the coaches are paid millions as are the players.

When we, as fans, watch a performance like that of the debacle against T&T and then hear Bruce complain about the moisture of the field, I just can't find the words for how cringe-worthy that statement is. I also feel bad for T&T who deserve a lot of credit for taking it to us. You would think a better team could out play a lesser team no matter the conditions...Get us a coach who can put together a gritty tough squad of guys that isn't going to whine about the field being too wet so they can't have an aftergame pedicure. AKA someone not associated with UVA

European nations go through managers faster than Trump goes through Press Secretaries..

So 2 ever?

"We were at the pinnacle, and we did it for years," Foster says. He pauses, nods, takes a deep breath. "And I did it with the best guy in the business."

I can think of one and he even has his own song:

RAFA! RAFAEL! RAFA! RAFAEL! RAFAEL BENITEZ!!!!

I would love that but recent comments lead me to believe he is at Newcastle as long as they will have them and is welcome to returning to liverpool should Klopp retire/quit/get fired and steven gerrard doesn't immediately get placed in the managerial role/

in all seriousness

i'm glad the joke part made you laugh

Obligatory "if only our best athletes played soccer comment". But seriously, how can a country of 320 million people not field a soccer team that is one of the best.

how can a country of 320 million people not field a soccer team that is one of the best

To me, it all starts at the youth level. This country has 300+ million people, but out of those, how many families can actually afford the thousands of dollars per year to have their kid develop by participating on a travel/select youth teams? If you are not developing your talent against the best competition at the 12-18 age levels, there's no chance you're going to eventually turn into a world class type of player. The youth system we have right now is stunting any future gains by essentially turning soccer into a sport only for families who can afford it. Every successful country has a system that fosters young talent...here we put a money limiter on it.

Most Development Academies are not "pay to play". Some are, true. But most are at the very least heavily subsidized. As an example, I spent ~$1500 per year for my son/daughter to play club/travel soccer. When my son made the nearest Development Academy team when he was 14 (at the time, that was the youngest age group - it's now U12 as of this year), we suddenly didn't have to pay anything, and it was more travel and higher competition.

True, but these academies are only in the larger cities. As personal experience dictates, one can't drive their child 3 hours one way in the middle of the week for soccer training, even if their kid is good enough. The majority of parents are left to pay ungodly fees to watch their kids play against poor competition. Not a good system for development.

The poorest areas in the county I grew up in seem to have lost their soccer tradition. Growing up we had healthy rivalries with these areas. Now they are just fat out of shape kids whose future is in jeopardy. Why? Best conversations I've had suggest the local youth leagues centralized fields so the kids could play on turf. Who wants to play neighborhood ball if the games are to a location where you don't have a ride?

Beyond that the game at high levels is not played on turf. So we've traded at least in the area where I grew up the world's greatest most appealing sport for one that looks more like polo, demographically.

And yes it is also exacerbated by the fact noone wants to play rec ball... they would rather play travel and pay thousands of dollars to get "the best" coaching available. So again, the poor kids can't afford those fees, don't even bother getting into a sport where the entrance fees are so exorbitant.

so now we know how loluva feels every year when the bowl games start?

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

It's time to get rid of the old guard - Dempsey, Bradley, Altidore, Beasley (seriously - frickin' Beasley is still on the squad?) - essentially anyone who is over 24 should go. Our Development Academy program, though relatively young, is very strong (as demonstrated by our U17 and U19 squads) and there is a lot of talent there that doesn't seem to be fully leveraged (Pulisic and Yeldin are the only products from the DA on the squad, I believe). We need to bring the young talent into the USMNT now and have them working/developing over the next 4 years. However, we should probably also look at how that talent is scouted - out of the roughly 7500 kids in the DA, and not to mention the tens of thousands in clubs - we need to have a more rigorous and sophisticated approach to identifying the right talent and psyche needed to create a winning team. The current scouting seems to be based on a simplistic measure of 1) basic athleticism, 2) size, and 3) technical ability - very little seems to be based on game IQ, tactical ability, etc.

Having played all my life, and my son now playing D1 soccer as well, I'm truly distraught by this result.

Old guard should have to be beaten by the new. Per the article shared elsewhere in this thread. Our cupboard is bare.

We have institutionalized soccer coaching with the clubs and DA academies. IMHO this only works if the coaching is world class. It is not. The best coaches get their faces ripped off every year with their best players taken. Meanwhile we have coaches who are largely bureaucrats without life options... looking to piece together a coaching career.

We were better off with the high schools being the power bases because we had more open competition at the coaching level. Now we have club and DA entrance requirements for coaches. 30 years ago we had coaches at the HS levels that I respect. Now... there are only a handful who are technically competent... and speaking frankly they are p***ies. You need hard people to coach kids and let them know what they are doing wrong. Ain't nothing hard about anything US soccer these days.

Having personally lived through the DA process with my son, I don't agree. The coaches my son had in the DA were highly competent, highly certified, with very high expectations - all with international professional playing/coaching experience. Practices 3 hrs per day M-F, 2 games most every weekend, weights/plyometrics twice a week - and this was from the end of August to end of June, with only a 3 week break in Dec/Jan. I'm not saying it can't be improved, but the DA is tailored after European and South American academies. But it has not been used to feed the USMNT for whatever reason (either by Klinsman or Arena), yet the DA has sent a lot of talent to pro leagues overseas. Go figure. Anyhow, much more rigorous than club soccer, and infinitely more rigorous than High School.

But it has not been used to feed the USMNT for whatever reason (either by Klinsman or Arena), yet the DA has sent a lot of talent to pro leagues overseas. Go figure.

As someone who never played soccer higher than any other level than the recreational level, I would trust your experience over many here.

Wouldn't it also be fair to say that we are only now seeing the benefits of the DA? Considering it was only introduced in 2007 (and at the time only included U-15/16 and U-17/18 teams), we're only a decade in to the process. It also wasn't until 2013-14 that they introduced the U-13/14 age group, so we're only a few years in to the system identifying and developing younger players.

This is a pretty handy graphic:

The USSDA is still in its relative infancy, but given that we've seen a bunch of talented youngsters signed to Bundesliga clubs like Pulisic, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent and more come through just in the past few years, I'd say that the system is starting to take effect and produce real results.

I agree - I think we're just starting to see the fruits of that labor. I think we just need to pick the tree now and use the next 4 years to invest by filling the USMNT squad with this young talent.

Yup. Basically, we have two years to get ready for the next major tournament (2019 Gold Cup).

If US Soccer does schedule November friendlies, or whether they take time to regroup and just wait until January, it's time to go full-on with the next generation.

Give me Bill Hamid, Ethan Horvath, Zack Steffen, Matt Miazga, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Erik Palmer-Brown, Justen Glad, Chris Durkin, Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent, Haji Wright, Tim Weah...

We've got to start giving those guys games, and it's got to start NOW.

I haven't been able to keep up with US Soccer much, due to not having FS1 and also having two toddlers at home, so a lot of those names aren't familiar to me.
What is Julian Green's status? I thought he looked promising in a few appearances a while ago.

The guys I listed have either only gotten a few games with the senior team or have only appeared for youth national teams.

Julian Green pretty much fell off the map - wasn't getting any time at Bayern, got loaned out and didn't do much and recently moved to Stuttgart, where he's since been loaned out again. Depending on what stories you believe, he's become known as someone who believed his own hype, been called lazy, etc. He may resurface again one day, but it seems like his prospects of being an impact player for the USMNT are all but gone.

I hear you. Would be surprised with all those resources for free if those involved didn't feel grateful.

I was speaking about HS long time ago pre-DA. When kids could practice 3 hours a day without lawyers getting involved. Now they have a limit of 2 hrs from what I understand. Would be interesting to put a timeline together of changes to the development model and how that may / may not have led to more or less development. Brian S's article would be a start. Certainly now HS in my local area is a wasted resource. Very few coaches now are even competent... mebbe 50% really care.

The emphasis now is on club / DA. How many in DA? How many in club? How many in HS? How many practice hours? etc. etc. Would be interesting to fill this out but no time for me. Respect what you've said. Peace out.

Are we burning out talented kids?
The daughter of a good friend was playing at an elite level (top 10 type team in country, recruited by acc/big10) and one day she decided she had enough.

Did the kids born in the 70/80's play soccer year around or did they play other sports when they were young and then specialize a little later?

I think burn out is certainly a risk for any kid pursuing a sport aggressively at the highest levels of competition. From what I've seen where I live, if you're not committed to it full time you get left behind, whether it's soccer, baseball, basketball, whatever. Everything is very competitive, at least where I live (Raleigh, NC area).

Growing up I solely played soccer and was even in talks with being a walk on at VT, but I got burned out my senior year of high school, and regretfully did not attempt to play at Tech (this was back in '87). My son, on the other hand, who has put in a ton more hours playing and practicing then I ever did, still loves it.

Agree with the competitive nature of Raleigh. I have heard the discussion of burnout, I even experienced it myself. I wonder about that being a problem but then i also wonder if that is one of the factors that separates a truly professional athlete from the others.

I also wonder if the size of the country and quantity of youths playing soccer creates a problem where it is almost too hard to identify the top talent effectively.

Specialization/Burn out is an issue in a lot of youth sports.

Go Hokies

The current scouting seems to be based on a simplistic measure of 1) basic athleticism, 2) size, and 3) technical ability - very little seems to be based on game IQ, tactical ability, etc.

1b: Money/Bribery in the ODP level

Continue to ignore the Olympic Development Program and this will continue to happen...

Unfortunately the ODP program has become the "private school" of soccer. Pay to play, get an international trip, spend a ton of $$$, and put the jersey in the closet. The coaches of the ODP teams are using it as a resume builder and not really passing talent along.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

nailed it.

Yeah, the DA essentially killed the ODP concept.

Gulati: "You don't make wholesale changes on a ball being two inches wide or two inches in...We'll look at everything"

Combine this with Arena's comments last night, and its no fucking wonder the US failed to qualify.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I don't understand the obsession with blaming MLS for US Soccer's failures. MLS is not run by US Soccer, it's just a sanctioned league. It's a growing league that has only benefitted soccer in this country, and it has added tons of depth to our player pool. If we're going to continue to grow as a soccer nation, it's going to be on the backs of the MLS academies. Hell, all of the goals that led to the US being eliminated last night, aside from Omar's OG, were scored by current MLS players. If MLS is to be blamed for anything, it's for making the rest of CONCACAF tougher. The bulk of the players on the Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras, and Trinidad teams play in MLS.

If you want soccer to continue to grow in this country, then you need to support your domestic leagues: MLS, USL, and (if they can find some non FBI-indicted leadership) NASL. Watch games on TV or YouTube, grow the ratings, get bigger $$ on TV contracts, that money goes toward better international players and more resources for academies. More resources for academies means more players like Pulisic, Yedlin, Erik Palmer-Brown, Josh Sargent, etc. All of which came up in the US youth academy system.

Also, while I'm totally on the "fire Gulati" train, y'all need to understand he's not in a paid position. He was elected to be president of US Soccer for a four-year term (his 3rd) in 2014, which means he's up for reelection this coming February. You want him out? Get behind one of the opposing candidates and petition the board of governors to not re-elect him. If you really want to burn things down, support Eric Wynalda.

MLS is not run by US Soccer,

Correct. US Soccer is heavily influenced/run by MLS. A very large part of the problem with US Soccer is that its currently set up, not to locate and develop the absolute best players for the USMNT, but to pad the pockets of the MLS ownership group. You want a small example of how fucked the system is, its becoming clear that the next round of expansion is going to Sacramento and Nashville. Cinci is currently attracting more than 30k per game and they're going to be left out. Raleigh (NCFC) is in one of the biggest soccer hotbeds of the country, with the franchise already sitting atop a youth-to-pro development system of 17,000 players, largest in the nation, and they're going to be left out. They're going to be left out, not because they're not a good opportunity and a great location for expansion, but because their ownership groups couldn't offer the sweetest deals.

And we wonder why out national team has been regressing as sharply as it has been over the last 6 years. Since 2011, US men's soccer has missed a U17 World Cup, a U20 World Cup, 2 Olympic Games, and now a Senior World Cup. Complete and utter failure

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

And we wonder why our national team has been regressing as sharply as it has been over the last 6 years. Since 2011, US men's soccer has missed a U17 World Cup, a U20 World Cup, 2 Olympic Gamess

All under Klinsmann's watch as technical director, I might add, who you advocated to be the leader of all of US Soccer above.

I wouldn't count out Cinci right now, they've got a lot of momentum. Nashville has a stadium plan, which boosts their chances, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's Sacramento and Cinci for the first two slots, then Nashville and someone else (Phoenix?) in a couple more years. Raleigh needs to secure land for their stadium and get more than 5,000 to a match if they want a chance.

All under Klinsmann's watch as technical director, I might add, who you advocated to be the leader of all of US Soccer above.

The name you're looking for here is Tab Ramos, the Youth Technical Director of US Soccer, who has been in charge of developing U-14 and up players since he took the role in 2013, while also serving as the U-20 coach since 2011.

Don't worry, his contract was extended in September of this year.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

You mean the guy who won the CONCACAF U-20 title, took the U-20 team to the quarterfinals of the World Cup this year, and beat Mexico for the first time in 31 years? Yeah, I don't think he's the problem.

The U.S. was the only country to reach the final in all three age groups during this year's CONCACAF Championships: U-20, U-17 and U-15. The U-20's victory against Mexico was the team's first in 31 years. At the U-20 World Cup, Ramos led the squad to back-to-back quarterfinals (2015, 2017) for the first time in program history and the team did not lose a match in regulation.

Youth development over the past few years hasn't been an issue. It's the U-23 and full national teams that have been disappointing. The U-23 coach was Caleb Porter when we missed the 2012 Olympics, and Andreas Herzog (put in that role by Jurgen) when we missed the 2016 Olympics. The coach that failed to qualify us for the U-20 World Cup was Thomas Rongen. Tab's U-20s haven't missed a World Cup.

The development hits a wall when the kids go play college. The schedule is so condensed and intense that true soccer is lost. It's go run and kick for 90 minutes twice a week. And a lot of the coaches are old school in they just run the kids in the ground knowing this is the peak of their soccer careers.

There isn't a "style" the US plays. Several different college (and high school) coaches will play differently, even with different formations. Until we have an identity as a country for a style, there will continue to be a hodgepodge of players coming along. Some are the burners that just chase it down and score against inferior opponents at will...until they meet another talented player. Then their skill set of just being fast doesn't translate into good futbol. I'm hoping Tab is working thru this to make strides for an identity, but even so, many of the U20 players leave the team and play college soccer. Understandable for the education, but they have a mix of international kids playing with them, in a system that is nothing like the national teams.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Keep in mind that NCAA soccer isn't governed by US Soccer at all. We continue to get a few good players from the college ranks, but US Soccer needs to work with the NCAA to implement some rule changes, like making it a year-long season. This is where the academy and domestic leagues become so important. The more money we invest in the academy system and domestic leagues, the more we can get kids to be pros early on. College will continue to catch some of the kids that slip through the cracks of the academies, both for the US and internationally, but I agree it shouldn't be relied on to develop the bulk of our youth national teams, and I don't think it is. I only see 3/21 of our U-20 World Cup roster that were college players.

Regarding having a "style" for US Soccer pushed down through all academies, I don't know if that's feasible. Clubs, and their development academies, will have their own style, and I don't think US Soccer can force those academies to play a certain style. Take Sporting KC, my hometown team, for example. They play a high-pressure 4-3-3, which they have implemented through their USL team and academy sides. They're not going to change that formation and style because US Soccer wants to play a free-flowing 3-5-2, or a counter-attacking 4-4-2 or whatever.

Oh, I agree on most points. I don't even mind not having a "German" regimented style...but there needs to be some sort of concept. As long as football is king, with differing offensive approaches, I don't think we'll ever get to that point of one style.

And the college thing...maybe it needs to come down to the best players NOT going to college. Right now the options are limited, as are the "American dreams" of the parents of their kids going to school to get a degree. But if the academies could offer up a life-skill type option INCLUDING the chance to play soccer professionally, then that should be the focus of the top tier kids. Pulisic made the leap, but his parents are well off enough to handle that choice. Clints? Maybe not...who knows. College is a place for our talent to get burnt out and not thrive like in an academy system or even playing for a senior team. A few make it, but I bet we lose just as many to burn out in those 3-4 years on campus.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

And the college thing...maybe it needs to come down to the best players NOT going to college.

This is key. As a EPL fan you see kids developing as a U16 getting looked at and attention by the U23s and sometimes even the EPL team. By 18, those high performing players are expected to be making EPL appearances and playing full time for the U23 team. There is a clear path from youth to pro and it doesn't include going to university for a national championship. There is very little money in going pro to the MLS and it is incredibly hard to do so. For the USA to have success, our young players need to go abroad to academies until, if ever, the MLS can develop similar academies and become competitive.

What are these kids supposed to do when they're 26 with a torn ACL and US Soccer determines they're no longer valuable? I be they'll wish they had a college degree to fall back on

"We were at the pinnacle, and we did it for years," Foster says. He pauses, nods, takes a deep breath. "And I did it with the best guy in the business."

The academies aren't soccer only. They provide schooling and life skills for the kids while training for soccer. They will have something to fall back on.

And this logic you stated is why the US soccer team will never be a top tier program. Too many people stuck with the "my kid MUST go to college" ideology. College doesn't equate to success one you graduate. I mean, some people are going to be Wahoos the rest of their lives...

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I've told my son if he gets the chance to play pro and that's what he wants to do, go for it. The experience would be incredible, and he could always get a degree later. Brains last a lot longer than legs do.

I was a kid pumped up on the belief I had to go to college by just about every teacher/parent/adult I ever met. Because when they were my age, that was probably true. I also spent nearly a year unemployed--unable to get a job at Home Depot because of over qualification and unable to get a job in my field because of over-saturation of degrees within my field. I had to go outside aerospace, into mechanical work just to be an engineer.

I am not against college, I will certainly raise my children to pursue their potential but I do not require it of them.

And finally, what 26 year old ex-pro soccer player, gets to walk back into the workforce with a 4 year old degree and literally zero experience?

A relatively simple solution would be to offer a "deferred college scholarship" to the players who are signed to pro contracts - the money kept in some sort of trust fund until they are no longer able to play professionally at which time they get the money and can use if for college, vocational training, buying a small business, etc. I think in many respects this would actually work out better for the athlete as they could focus 100% on developing athletically when it matters most and then devote their full attention to academics once it is clear that their career is over. Could be run by USSF if there is not enough trust in the individual clubs to manage it. I think generation Adidas works something like this but the pool of players selected each year is very small.

These scholarships would have to be paid for by USSF or the Clubs or someone else. Colleges and their boosters pay those scholarships now. They're not going to pay them to come back later and not play.

But I do like the idea.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

This is essentially what the Generation Adidas program is/does.

I fully support the growth of the MLS and the other domestic leagues and their respective academies. I agree with you that the system needs to continue to grow for us to reach where we really want to be a long way down the line. What I don't like is when the people in charge of US Soccer make decisions that harm US Soccer for the benefit of the MLS, such as pushing players to stay domestic when they have the potential to grow in a better league.

People are really hoping this is the last we see of Michael Bradley, and maybe rightfully so... but it wasn't too long ago he was a very good player in Roma. But he came back to Toronto and his caliber of play has nosedived.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

The most damning thing about Sunil Gulati is that he said when he took over USSF that he believed could lift the World Cup trophy by 2014. Erm...epic fail! For that alone, he should go. Don't set unrealistic expectations.

And sadly the USWNT still doesn't make as much as the men do even when the men's team doesn't qualify for the World Cup. I mean all the women's team did was win the whole damn thing. NBD, right?

They don't make as much because, quite frankly they don't bring in enough money. Obviously, missing out on the WC for the men's is terrible and a complete failure that absolutely should cost many, many people their jobs, but from advertising to butts in seats, the women's game just lags behind. Absolutely, if all things were equal, they should make the same amount, but all things aren't equal.

Its like saying the coaches at JMU should be making more than the coaches at VT, because JMU won the Natty and VT missed the playoffs. While technically true... its just apples and oranges.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

You are 100% false, my friend.

Source

BOOM!

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Thanks for posting the graphic. I love the men's team just as much as I love the women's team. I was almost afraid to post the equal pay thing on TKP, but I'm passionate about the issue. I'm a huge soccer fan, former player, and also a female. The women kick ass and deserve to be compensated in my humble opinion.

Well, the women appear to each be making $15,000 more than the men this year (before the team bonuses). /s

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

If these figures are accurate, there is no excuse to not change the disparity immediately. Hopefully this gets done.

USSF Financial Report 2014-2017

Revenue for USMNT from 2014 - 2017 was $75m
Revenue for USWNT from 2014 - 2017 was $54m

The men brought in 39% more revenue than the women did over the same period, despite the women winning the World Cup.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I think profit and results are what matters. They might be bringing in a lot of money, but the men's team is spending money for zero results. They didn't make the Olympics and now they aren't going to make the World Cup.

I assure you, from a financial standpoint, revenue is what matters when comparing salaries and kickbacks. The men's program brings in 39% more money to the Federation. They're 39% more valuable as a team that misses the Olympics and went out in the first round of the knockout stage of the World Cup than the women's team who went out in the Olympic semifinals and won the World Cup.

Don't get me wrong, the reimbursement and reward levels for men vs women needs to be updated to reflect this, but until they're bringing in the same dollar figure as the men, the gap will always be there.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I don't think it was malicious but this response doesn't adequately address the points jmecca raised. Can you explain why you believe revenue is the only thing that matters when comparing salaries and bonuses? I can see how it would play a role but it also seems impossible to me that a company's profits shouldn't influence compensation.

Even if revenue is the only number that matters, you still didn't really address her major issue with the pay disparity. Take the figures for the men's team and multiply them by 72% (54/75). The numbers won't be close to what the women are making.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Manslpaining

Aw fuck now, really? I feel a term like that only inspires conflict.

I hesitated to use that term because I recognize it is somewhat divisive in nature but perhaps I should have avoided it. I will edit it to prevent the discussion from devolving. The concept it represents does occur but I wanted to be sure to specify that I didn't think that was the intent here. However I think jmecca made some valid points and the response was essentially, "trust me, this is how it is" without much supporting detail.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Shit, I meant to write more to that post saying that I agree with the rest of what you said.

If one team makes a higher percentage, then sure they should be paid that percentage higher. But I don't really see why the major tournament bonuses would be higher, unless the World Cup was being played in America and the money was being made here based on attendance.

Even if the men's team makes 39% more, the bonuses for actually winning (and making?!?) major tournaments should close that gap, or even surpass the men's team.

Revenue is the amount of money the program makes. Profit is the revenue minus expenses. When you're calculating the net worth of an entity the revenues are far more valuable than profits because profits can be manipulated far easier than the dollar figure of the money brought in. For a hypothetical, if the VT football team makes $30m in a year but because of various improvement projects they operate at a net loss of $5m on the year it doesn't mean that the baseball team, which may operate on a $3m budget but had $500k in profit, is more valuable. The football team in that scenario is the budget driver with the more valuable position to the department as a whole, and as such their staff will command the higher salaries and budgeted expenses. A similar situation is here with US Soccer with the men being the revenue drivers overall, and as such, they command the larger part of the pie.

As for the differences between the kickbacks and reward values, on the surface, I completely agree that they appear to need amending. However, take a situation where the miracle happens and the US wins the World Cup. My guess is that studies have shown that the differences displayed represent the projected increased revenue generated with such an accomplishment. That really is my only guess there. But with that situation being as unlikely as it is, I agree that the pay scale for now absolutely needs to better reflect their values to the game now. The women are underpaid respective to the men. But I stop short at saying they deserve an equal cut when the men are driving revenue by half as much more as the women make.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I agree that equal pay shouldn't be provided just because it's the same sport but it does appear the USWNT should be earning more than they currently do. I do think profit and other factors always have to be considered in addition to revenue to determine value. Operating at a loss annually is not sustainable unless those losses are being offset by other factors not captured in revenue (as is the case in intercollegiate and international athletics).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinsku, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the US put a lot more emphasis and funding into their women's sports than most other countries (and have been doing it for a much longer period of time). Same thing with women's olympic basketball. At some level, isn't the women's team EXPECTED to perform at a higher level compared to the rest of the field (vs Men's soccer)?

Largely due to Title IX, yes, there is much more infrastructure for women's sports here than most places. The rest of the world is coming up fast in women's soccer, though.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

from someone who is not a soccer fan (great athletes, i just find some of the rules nonsensical) and will watch little if any of the world cup regardless of who is in it

a good sign for the sport: a lot of people are interested enough to be really pissed

a bad sign for the sport: comparing coaches based on the quality of their losses

Not trying to be inflaming, but I'm genuinely curious what rules seem nonsensical? To me, Soccer has some of the most basic and reasonable rules of any sport, especially when compared to American football (formation penalties, pancake vs holding, linemen downfield, going out of bounds and returning to the field etc.) The only rule that may seem weird to the outsider is offsides, but even that is implemented in hockey.

agreed, think of it as ice hockey, but simpler and on grass...and slower (obviously)

however, the rules of ice hockey were derived from soccer (i'm guessing since they're similar and the rules of soccer were codified before hockey)

I've always thought of Offsides this way... In hockey, because the rink is small, the line is fixed, and allows for the spreading of players. In soccer, the field size allows the line to move with the trailing defender. Otherwise, the rule is the same.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I'm not extremely familiar with hockey, but I think an even more intuitive way to explain why the offside rule is in place for someone who is more familiar with American Football is to compare it to the rule that wide receivers must line up behind the line of scrimmage. You can't have them just running around in the backfield before the QB snaps the ball..

The best way to describe it is "No cherry picking". You can't be the closest outfield player to the goal when the ball is kicked.

Chem PhD '16

they fixed the worst rule in the history of organized sports in 1992 with the no passback rule to the goal keeper.

but offsides is by far my biggest beef. in my view the rule rewards poor defense. hockey's blue line is far superior

i'd also like to see the midfield line (or another line...maybe your own blue line?) treated similarly to half court in basketball which precludes stalling thru a deliberate retreat beyond a certain point. the absence of such rewards poor offense

there are essentially three elements to the offside rule:

1. you can't be offside if you are in your own half as the pass is being played (though this may have changed recently), nor can you be offside on a throw-in
2. there must be at least two players that are even with you or between you and the goal (notice this doesn't assume the goalkeeper is in front of you) as the ball is being played AND you directly interfere with play
3. if you are even or behind the ball, you can't be offside

I'm sure I've missed some obscure scenario, so fire away

I think you nailed it.

The only obscure scenarios might have to do with whether the ball was played by a member of your own team or not (I can't recall if this matters) or that you have the option of stopping play or stepping out of the field of play and 'forfeiting' your contribution to the play, in which case you are not intending to gain advantage from your offsides position and therefore it shouldn't be called.

There are some weird scenarios where, say, your teammate takes a shot and you are clearly in an offsides position, but you stop play so you are not participating in the play, but it may 'influence the position or activity of the goalkeeper' and therefore may be called for it even if you actively tried to remove yourself from the action.

This is one thing I do really love about soccer, that the referee can exercise judgement over the call. I wish other sports would follow suit in that

scenario 2 is the issue. the position of defense is the determining factor about whether the offense is offsides...which rewards poor defensive skills.

How does that reward poor defense? Offside traps are a very important part of the game and extremely difficult to run to perfection. You're lobbying for a bad rule change. All your idea would create is soccer being played like lacrosse, that sounds terrible.

And passing the ball back rewards poor offense? You strike me as someone that doesn't watch a lot of soccer. A perfect triangle in the 4-4-2 is impossible to defend because you have a retreat option

Rip his freaking head off!

Soccer as a sport involves a group of people trying to get a soccer ball past another group of people and into a relatively small target without using their hands to control the ball. In my view, it is a magnificent concept. For people and dogs, playing with a ball is one of the great things ever.

1) You strike me as someone that doesn't watch a lot of soccer. Correct, see my O.P. I think a couple of the rules suck. It moves slower than golf.

2) Offside traps are a very important My point is that offsides traps are, sadly, an integral part of the game. I don't think they are difficult to run at all and are not reflective of the basic athletic skill required to play the sport. Anyone who is aware of ball and player position can do it. Basically, it's "I'll just stand over here right now and screw them over". Offside traps were probably invented by lawyers.

3) And passing the ball back rewards poor offense?...A perfect triangle in the 4-4-2 is impossible to defend because you have a retreat option. Retreating is the opposite of advancing the ball toward the goal. It is burning clock, rethinking, or living to fight another day. It is defense, not offense.

think of a drop as a screen, it draws the defense out of place to take advantage of it elsewhere. Watch a city game this year if you want to see the importance of horizontal play and backwards play to develop forward play. Think of it like VT football it forces you to defend the entire field rather than going north or south strictly

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

oh, i understand the nuances of both rules. I just think they function as tactical crutches and don't reward athletic skill.

put "blue lines" halfway between midfield and the top of the penalty area (why isn't it a semicircle? why isn't the goal area a semi-circle?) would increase the premium on defensive and long ball skills, provide for greater diversity of tactics on offense and defense, and result in a more exciting and in my view, more fan friendly game.

a well played low scoring game can be a thing of beauty, but if every game is a shutout or outcome is a foregone conclusion...?

Looking at a couple of articles re: the Premier League, overcoming a 1 goal lead to tie is uncommon even for the home team. For the road team it is a near certain loss, as is trailing 2-1 for either team.

An offside trap takes an immense amount of communication, intelligence, and timing. It's by no means easy, and requires a very smart center back to consistently pull off. It's by no means easy

Rip his freaking head off!

180 9th thru 12th graders with no athletic ability to speak of can march forward, backward, and sideways in coordinated configurations for 15 minutes while all playing musical instruments in such a way as it comes together to form popular music.

Getting 3 or 4 people who have played a game with extraordinarily simple rules since they were 6 to walk, trot, or run to a certain point on the field while required to do nothing else and with no one impeding them is one of the easiest tasks in organized sports.

Getting 3 or 4 people who have played a game with extraordinarily simple rules since they were 6 to walk, trot, or run to a certain point on the field while required to do nothing else and with no one impeding them is one of the easiest tasks in organized sports.

You've obviously never played or watched soccer consistently at a high level which is okay, but this is a highly ignorant statement.

Always choose joy.

I'll go to the rugby board...they know dry humor when they read it.

As a poorly coordinated high schooler who didn't want to admit that the only thing I had going for me was straight line speed, I made a living off of teams that couldn't effectively play an offsides trap.

It's like our bowl streak: sure going to a bowl doesn't seem like a big deal anymore, but if it was that easy, why doesn't everyone have the same streak?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I made a living

Paid in HS? You must have grown up in North Carolina where rules don't apply

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

No athletic ability? Fuck that shit, marching band is rigorous physical activity. You ever tried holding an 8 pound instrument perfectly level at 10 degrees above parallel while playing it and hustling your ass all over a field while trying to play well and hit spots at the exact right time so formations line up? I take further offense because several of my 9th-12th grade "unathletic" brethren and I beat the hell out of our football team in a friendly full-contact pick up game.

But back on topic, offside traps are, in fact, rather difficult to perfect.

You ever tried holding an 8 pound instrument perfectly level at 10 degrees above parallel while playing it and hustling your ass all over a field while trying to play well and hit spots at the exact right time so formations line up?

Yes. I played trumpet, baritone, tuba/sousaphone and have marched (with the old style bear skin hats) in dozens of half times, pre-games, post-games and parades. I can still do perfect 22 1/2" steps, i.e., "8 to 5". At age 62, I still play 45 song rock gigs with a bass guitar made of Texas mesquite and walnut on my shoulder.

Best to just stop commenting about things which you (admittedly) know nothing of. Just saying.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Okay

[Most of my comments on most boards, and all of my comments in this thread have an element of humor. Perhaps not everyone picked up on that.]

Maybe they didn't pick up on it cuz humor is supposed to be funny. If nobody gets your jokes, maybe the jokes are the problem

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

the football comparison would be the receiver not being allowed to run past the deepest two defensive backs until after the ball is thrown.

Conversely, the football comparison to no offsides would be to allow wide receivers to stand anywhere on the field prior to the snap.

I do think football rules should be relaxed in a few ways to mimic more of what soccer does:
1) Yes, you should be on your own side of the ball until the snap occurs, but who cares how many guys are on the line vs in the backfield? Just let them be anywhere. 'Illegal formation' is a total waste of time for a rule
2) Yes, the thrower should have to be behind the line of scrimmage if they execute a forward pass, but who cares if the offensive linemen go past the line and into the second level?
3) Just let everyone be an eligible receiver all the time.

rugby-ish?

Kinda. I just think there is a level of rigidity that doesn't make any sense, especially with the illegal formation stuff. Who really cares?

Hence the value of various lines of demarcation on the field...football's LOS, hockey's blue line, basketball's halfcourt line, "key" and most recently, restricted area under the basket.

Soccer has its goal box and penalty areas. I think it would be a much more entertaining sport with a couple more lines disincentivizing poor play.

I keep hearing about money being thrown around. Who exactly funds these things like academy and US soccer?

Someone leaked footage of Landon Donovan watching the game last night...

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Nah, Donovan was a Bruce Arena lackey. He wanted nothing more than to see the team qualify so he could gloat about how it was all Jurgen's fault.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

This^ I think Landon Donovan is the prototype when discussing what is wrong with US soccer.

You mean Landon "I'm going to take time off from soccer before the fucking World Cup" Donovan?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Yes, that's the one!

By the way, this very Landon said he is mulling over running for Sunil's place.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Thats like the exact opposite of what US Soccer needs

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I'm very well aware.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

How about Jill Ellis? Her dad coached camps and the Soccer Academy back in Manassas when I was younger and they were so much fun. Good solid soccer family.

If Landon Donovan becomes head of the USSF I'll puke

I think the usmnt could use leadership from the uswnt. They actually win world cups. A lot.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

You misspelled Jurgen Klinsmann

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Well, whatever the reason, behold the USMNT for the World Cup '18

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Someone uploaded the entire rant to YouTube, and I embedded it with the OP above.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

I wanted to remain calm about this, so I asked my friend, who coaches in both college and the Olympic Development Program, to give me some sort of silver lining. HE DID NOT.

Go Hokies

I agree that we need to clean house. It has been painful seeing this inevitably develop over the years. I've been watching the USMNT for years and there was times I really thought we were heading in a decent direction. This is an utter disgrace. It's sickening we can't effectively develop and field a team that can be competitive. The talent is there in the US, I promise you that. Sadly, this is the wake up call we needed. Please let's just start over, get it right up top and work down from there.

Also, and this has been mentioned countless times, if we really want to do this right, we can't let the networks off the hook. I've been watching soccer for 20 years and can't tell you the number of times the games have either not been televised or on some foreign network that few get. You mean to tell me a Friday night USMNT game can't be televised on an ESPN network because you're going to show Trick Shot Billiards instead?? These networks that are pounding this organization right now aren't completely at no-fault themselves IMHO.

I do think we'll get there, but this needs a rebuild and to be done the right way. Back to the drawing board. Start fresh, get the right heads making decisions, overhaul the way players are recruited and developed within the system, and there's no reason we won't be among the world's elite.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

The hardest part was watching at the AO bar in complete silence. Starting in the 60th minutes it was dead silent, just the occasional peep of "Panama just scored". It was a slow painful death, and there was nothing you could do about it. You saw it coming from a mile away.

Rip his freaking head off!

Ok, there's lots of complaining and some big picture discussions that are being bandied about, but I figure it might be worth discussing some targeted changes that could help the game:

1. Reduce the cost of coaching education & license fees.

The cost of obtaining the highest levels of coaching licenses is a detriment to the game and reduces the number of highly-qualified coaches in this country. We'll likely never get to the level of Iceland due to the sheer size of our country and far larger population, but they prioritized coaching education and it has paid huge dividends to their current national team structure. We need more highly qualified coaches. Subsidize the costs if need be, just make it happen.

2. Allow MLS teams to recoup the full costs of transfers.

Currently, 25% of MLS transfers go to the league as a whole because of the single entity structure. On top of that, the amount of GAM/TAM recouped is capped at a certain amount (can't remember the exact number). Allow teams to recoup that entire transfer fee and not share 25%. That's money that could be reinvested in the club's youth apparatus.

3. Figure out a way to introduce training compensation / solidarity payments in some way.

This one is tricky, as it involves US labor laws and and prior court decisions. But it needs to be figured out, as the trickle-down effect on local clubs who have helped develop pro players can invest that money back into schlaorships and chipping away at the pay-to-play model that limits opportunity in this country.

Guys I figured it out. We can't expect to beat Trinidad & Tobago, it's playing TWO countries at the same time. /s

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I hereby throw my saddle into the ring to lead the USSF.

As my first order of business, I will hire Jurgen Klinsmann as my protege. Now that I have trained him sufficiently, I will step down to allow the next generation of soccer leadership to mold all of what we do in the entire USSF.

It has been my pleasure to serve as the leader of the USSF.

I haven't heard from Alexi Lalas yet, I wonder what he and Wynalda are thinking now.

This isn't the issue though! We keep pointing to the coaches and the USSF but we just haven't developed talent. We lost to a team with a population the size of San Diego. We really don't have any viable international talent between the ages of 22-27.

I could give a shit less who leads the USSF as long as they do two things:

1) Reduce the cost of a Class A license. It costs $4,000 dollars in addition to a ton of hoops to get this license. Last year, there was roughly 14 million youth soccer players. This meant there was one Class A coach for every 6000 players in the youth system. At the lowest level of license, a Class F which takes a few hours, we are still at a disparity of one class F for every 350 players. We aren't teaching our youth. We are hoping we strike a vein of diamonds but we aren't even willing to get a pickax. Keep in mind the compounded cost, Class A is $4,000 dollars, Class B is $3,000 dollars. Until we incentivize the development of coaches, you will not see youths develop.

2) Bring soccer to rural areas. Fund the development of more areas of the country than ever before. The USSF had a budget surplus of $100,000,000 this year. Can you sit on it? Sure! Will we continue looking like shit if we don't start preparing our 17-22 year olds? Absolutely!

There's a whole list of things we could add but the simple answer is we are trying to run an education system with teachers we are pulling off the street. There needs to be something more.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I agree with like 90% of this article. I know there is a lot of MLS bashing going on, but I don't see the merit to it. As a nation, we should be able to produce more than 18 players who can compete for the national team. If a few stay home and lose their edge, fuck them, but you shouldn't automatically trash players who are in the MLS.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

The bigger issue is most US players who have played in Europe (Duece, Bradley, Landon, Howard) and came back to the MLS have gotten worse. They've come back because the $ gap has closed up, they have 0 competiton for spots and get to stay/be with family. Its a Win/Win for sure. The MLS is not a bad league but they're not having to compete as hard and earn the playing time its practically handed to them.

That isn't the main issue though. They were all coming back in their 30s when they were fully developed players. They may have lost an edge, but the lack of 22-28 year olds who have European experience is a massive issue.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

There's some good stuff in there, but a lot of it is still pretty naive. I'll go through his "fixes" at the end point-by-point:

1. Separation of church and state: Break overt ties between U.S. Soccer and MLS, which means electing a new federation president in 2018, removing MLS Commissioner Don Garber from the federation's board of directors and negotiating separate TV contacts. What's best for MLS is not always what's best for national teams. Let them exist independently.

I think this is sensible. MLS has grown to a point where it can stand as its own entity in this regard - let's come back to this point later though.

2. Europe vacation: You can't force American players to adopt the tougher road of European soccer instead of the cushy life in MLS. But hiring a European national coach, basing him there, holding training camps there, staging friendlies there would send a pretty strong message where anyone who wants to play in World Cup should go.

Hire a European coach, that's fine by me. I don't think it will necessarily make the USMNT better though, as I feel that the coach in charge doesn't have to be from outside the system. They just need to do a better job of managing the whole player pool & playing sensibly game-in, game-out against CONCACAF competition. His idea of basing the USMNT camps out of Europe almost exclusively is a moronic idea. Also, the UEFA Nations League concept is going to make it much more difficult to get friendlies scheduled with European squads.

3. Stop hosting the Gold Cup: The United States has hosted all 14 editions of the biennial men's championship for the CONCACAF region, largely because a corrupt CONCACAF and greedy U.S. federation can make the most money here. But it means U.S. players never get to play meaningful road games outside of World Cup qualifying and get complacent racking up wins on home soil. No wonder they were winless on the road in the final round of qualifying.

Again, this is naive. Only 3 countries in all of CONCACAF even have the requisite facilities to host the Gold Cup (US, Mexico, Canada). This should be wayyyyyyy down the list of issues to fix about the Gold Cup.

4. Deregulate pro soccer: Instead of trying to kill NASL (by designating it third division) because it poses a threat to MLS, the federation should welcome the competition. Maybe NASL fails on its own. Or maybe it grows into a vibrant alternative to MLS with promotion and relegation, which would improve the overall U.S. player pool and force MLS to adapt.

I knew this was coming before I clicked on the link. Let's go back to the response I made to point 1, about MLS standing on its own. From a standpoint of negotiating contracts separate from the USMNT, that made sense. But the issue with deregulating pro soccer in this country is that it introduces a lot more instability into the system. Pro/rel worked to organize the landscape across Europe because there were so many clubs it made sense to cohesively bring them under one umbrella. That's not the case here. Also, I'd argue more than ever that now is not the time to introduce volatility in the pro soccer landscape.

5. Better coaching: The federation is sitting on a $100 million surplus. Use it to pay for coaching education and require all coaches from youth clubs it sanctions to hold an advanced license – or go coach rec soccer. It worked in Iceland, which implemented strict coaching requirements and just became the smallest nation to qualify for a World Cup.

Zero issue with this - in fact, I advocated for it only a few posts above this one.

6. Blow up pay-to-play: You're never going to completely reinvent a youth club system awash in parents' money and egos. But a good first step is allowing development clubs to sign 16-year-olds to contracts, like they do in the rest of the world, so they can reap lucrative transfer fees when they're gobbled up by bigger fish. Overnight that changes the priority from winning State Cups to patiently cultivating individual prospects. Leave the trophies and ribbons to AYSO.

Blowing up pay-to-play is a nice idea, but his solution isn't well thought out here. Again, I mentioned it above, but training compensation & solidarity payments need to be sorted out in this country before this solution is able to take effect. This is one of those intricacies that lots of people talk about, but don't ever offer a coherent solution because they don't understand the complexities that come along with it.

Finally, I wish people would stop using Iceland as the model for the US. Can we learn things from them? Absolutely. I think the biggest takeaway is coaching, Coaching, COACHING. We definitely need to flood youth soccer with qualified coaches, and make that coaching education more accessible and less expensive. But scouting is still going to be a huge problem in our country - the small size of Iceland makes it far easier to identify the best players. We'll probably never get to the crazy ratio of coaches to players, but reducing the current ratio in the US is paramount to improving as a soccer country.

I like the Euro idea, simply because that's where the kids dream of playing. Bring one over, and they have the players attention immediately. Sounds weird, but I dangle a guy from Man City's academy in front of the 12 year olds in my club, they focus and pay attention. (True story!)

As for the Gold Cup, where does the author of the article think the majority of our seat revenue came from?

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I think the comparisons to Iceland are being used because they addressed your #1 priority, they did two big things. 1) They made stadiums easily accessible to their entire country, 2) they improved their coaching and made it mandatory to know your shit.

I think we could learn a lot from those two priorities right there

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Of the two things you've listed there, #2 is relatively easy for US Soccer to implement.

#1 is going to be extremely difficult to accomplish in the US. Providing more places to play is going to be a much longer and more costly endeavor, especially in more populated regions. Just think about the costs associated with trying to build a bunch of indoor facilities (or heck, even futsal courts) in a place like NYC.

Point being, making the process to obtain a coaching license cheaper could be implemented right now, using some of that $100 million surplus. The second one is going to take a lot more time & money.

yeah I hear you I'm just saying thats why people are drawing the parallels because some of these things are applicable to our issues

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

It doesn't take much money to put 200 coaches in an auditorium together and teach them the basics.
It doesn't take much money to go out to a field and show coaches the basic techniques they should be implementing in their coaching.
It doesn't take much money to educate those that are in charge of educating the one that want to play soccer.
It takes a money hungry organization to make it near impossible without charging exorbitant amounts to further the coaching education.

A class C license should not take the amount of money and time they believe it takes. Make it 3 levels. Make it $100 each level. Make it mandatory to coach in gotsoccer and elite tournaments. Take the show on the road and get it done. Teach the masses.

Your kids basketball team is coached by someone that played basketball. And maybe even played in college. How many times is that the case in soccer?

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I like how there was supposed to be a joint venture between the MLS and USSF for development, but each club ran things WAY differently. Philly had open tryouts and a decent system. DC charged for trying out, and charged even more for being in the academy. Pay-to-play at it's worst.

And to add...I don't live near enough to DC for it to really matter, but their practices were closed. You want to grow the sport, have opportunities for the youth and the coaches to learn, allow them in to see what's being done. A coach might see a drill that he implements. A kid might truly understand what it takes at the highest level. You can see the guys show off their real skill at practice. But it's closed off, and from what I understand, you cannot get in no matter. I'd take a lunch hour down there. Or a bit in the morning on the weekend. Grow the game....invite the youth in. DC biggest way to support? Have the kids hold the flag for the Anthem before the game.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I think the USA and Mexico should compete in CONMEBOL (i.e. South America)...add a spot to their federation and leave CONCACAF with one automatic spot and the play-in spot against the worst qualifying CONMEBOL team (or however it's done now)

Not a bad idea..,
My only fear is we lost any leverage we could have ever had by not qualifying this time around. We could continue to play the stadium card, but that just furthers the spoiled Yanks thought they have about us.

Was thinking about the German rebirth...but there's one closer to home. The US basketball team. Maybe there's something to be looked at to see how they rebounded from embarrassment. I understand they were the top dogs and the soccer team isn't, but something has to be learned by looking at that model of rebuilding/restructuring.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Bruce Arena said some things today.

Namely, he thinks his contract ends because he didn't qualify and also, he believes Sunil shouldn't be getting so much flak. To explain his position, he gave us this weird talk-around that kind of sounds like it is the USSF's fault:

"The criticism on Sunil is unfair," Arena said. "Why is the president of the federation responsible for the result on Tuesday?"

Asked about the USSF's role in player development, he said: "Why do people think U.S. Soccer is in charge of player development? Players play in clubs. Why is that U.S. Soccer's responsibility? They support the clubs in this country, they support player development, but that's not their responsibility.

"They are a governing body that runs our national team programs. They have coaching education. All of that has to get better, but the infrastructure now for player development in the United States is set. There will be more players developed over the years. Every MLS club has an academy program. Everyone has done a lot of leg work and invested a lot of money to get it going.

The USSF isn't responsible for player development! The USSF is involved in player development!

Whatever. There's apparently an "emergency meeting" tonight ahead of tomorrow's press conference. My guess is someone's getting fired.

That's such a ridiculous statement that I want his citizenship revoked. It's been 2 days and I'm still sick about that game. The worst part is once I do get over it I'll have to remember it all again next Summer. This was finally the WC I could go to, first one with my own job and not quite with any responsibilities. In 4 years who knows if that will change, just heartbreaking.

Rip his freaking head off!

Yep. It sucks and I feel for you. I've been to the last two World Cups and was (loosely) planning on going to Russia with the guys I travel with. A lot changes in 4 years. This was probably going to be my last.

I'm the same as you. I think I'm over it then get struck with anger and sadness about not playing next summer. We won't have a meaningful match for two years. Every WC qualifying match from 2019-2022 will have that "didn't qualify last time" pall hanging over it. This nightmare truly doesn't end until 2022, assuming we qualify.

What's even worse is that, assuming we are named the hosts in 2026, 2022 might represent the only WCQ run over the next 14 years. It's possible that Pulisic only has one more qualifying run in his career. In itself, that's pretty damaging to US Soccer as well.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

While I agree that's a travisty for him, I wouldn't say that it's completely damaging to US Soccer. Remember, as good as he is, he's only one player on the field, and chose to go to Germany to play. We may never see him on US soil outside of the National team kit 4 times a year for the next 10-15 years. He cannot single handedly do everything and dumping that on him is unfair. With that said, his status does not define our national team or future either.

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

What I'm saying is, we have a player of this kind of talent level, and after missing this World Cup we might only have 1 more qualification remaining in his career, which is bad for the game here because of how long qualification usually goes as compared to the world cup itself. Would be a big missed opportunity to help the sport grow if we only really have maybe 2 months of WCF and one WCQ remaining in his US career. Of course, pending possible Gold Cup or Copa America invites.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

The house shouldn't have to be cleaned. It should have been cleaned out and by taking the bull by the horns and admitting they didn't get it done; and resigning.
http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3227787/bruce-arena-has-no-interest-in-overseeing-another-world-cup-cycle
Like they said, this doesn't tarnish their legacy. It IS their legacy. (Except #10.)

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

So.... who do you hire?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I hear wenger is gonna be job hunting

/s

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Luis Enrique?

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The rumblings are that Tab Ramos is likely going to be named interim manager, which makes sense given that he's the US Soccer Youth Technical Director.

I don't mind that direction for now - you can keep him in place for now for whatever November friendlies might be scheduled and the annual January camp, then once the European club season is over there might be more options available.

Yeah that actually does make sense. We definitely don't need to be in a rush.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Anyone we hire now should be temporary with the intention to replace as soon as Gulati is out next year. If it's Tab, fine... But he has to reinterview next year.

Don't let this comment take away from the fact that Arkansas blew a 24 point 2nd half lead in the Belk Bowl.
Don't let the Belk Bowl take away from the fact that Matt Ryan blew a 25 point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl.

Did anyone see this? I didn't know she was on the board...

U.S. Soccer Federation board of directors member Donna Shalala tweeted Wednesday that the U.S. men's national team's loss to Trinidad and Tobago was "unacceptable."

...explains a lot....

I know it's generally seen as nitpicky to be a grammar nazi over social media posts, but for fucks sake, the woman was in academia for a long time.

Anybody watching our U-17 game? The baby nats are destroying Paraguay 5-0 and one of our strikers just completed a hat trick.

Biggest takeaway is that our midfield is abusing the space that Paraguay is leaving open by pushing forward - it's been a clinic in passing and countering.

Also solid defending forcing Paraguay to play from out wide and marking in the box.

Caution hopping on the hype train after youth performances, but what I will say is that the Carleton kid from Atlanta looks the part of a future USMNT player. His vision and touch and the precision he has on his passing is incredible for his age.

Weah, also excellent today. Interesting to see if he even sniffs a first team opportunity (bench for a cup game would be a good start) at PSG in the next few years.

Other player to watch was Sergino Dest. Was subbed at halftime. One to watch in the famed Ajax academy.

Always choose joy.

I agree with you in general, but a lot of the kids on this U-17 team are already attached to professional teams.

That's a big difference over past U-17 teams, which were often made up of kids who lived & trained full-time together for years at the IMG Academy in the residency program. USSF announced this year that they'd discontinuing it basically because the US Soccer Development Academy programs have removed the need for such a residency program.

I think a lot of these kids are going to be getting professional minutes very soon, if they aren't already. You've got Durkin with DC United, Garces, Goslin, & Carleton at Atlanta United, Sands & Shaver at NYCFC, Weah at PSG and Sargent will be heading to Werder Bremen when he turns 18. Some of those kids probably would have been playing real minutes in MLS this year if they hadn't been preparing for the U-17 World Cup (Durkin & Carleton are at the top of that list in my opinion).

I understand the skepticism, but I think this group is going to have several impact players for the USMNT in the years to come.

Don't forget the 3 players with Schalke. Weston Mckinnie, Haji Wright and Nick Taitague. Weston is getting minutes with the senior team and Haji and Nick are on the cusp of seeing minutes every now and then, especially for friendlies. They haven;t been called up into the national team pools recently as there have been conflicts with the Schalke games.

EDIT: After looking at Haji Wright, I just noticed he has been loaned out to a BuLi 2 team, and has been getting solid minutes with the senior team(about 50 minutes per game). 1 goal in 8 games.

"Facyson is a baller."
-CFB

Agreed as well on all the points above. The most encouraging thing I was getting at was the ability of our team to tactically take advantage of Paraguay when they decided to concede large areas of midfield to our players. Great individual efforts by Weah and Carleton...but it was refreshing to see the US defend compactly when Paraguay tried to dictate the game with more attackers. And then smartly play through the middle of the field in those vacated spaces rather than desperation clearances.

I can't count how many times I've seen the senior team unable/unwilling to defend when the other team decides to send numbers forward. It either comes crashing down as we get too spread out or whomever is in goal has to single-handedly keep us in it. And then once we get possession...it's typically just cleared out just to prepare for another wave of attacks when there's usually open space to exploit on the counter repeatedly. The U-17 team played much more composed and soundly out of the back.

If my 6 year old's league is any indication, soccer in America is doomed...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Thank Goodness!!

Reel men fish on Wednesdays