OT: Empty seats in the corners of Lane

It seems that every week whether the game is a sellout or not, that the top of the South Endzone and Top Northeast corner of Lane are always empty. Even during the Clemson game, arguably one of the biggest games this decade, the seats in those areas were noticeably thin. After watching the Penn State vs. Michigan and a few other high profile games, I noticed those stadiums were not only sell out but looked full on TV, not an empty section to be found. To me it just looks really bad, from an optics standpoint to say that Lane Stadium is sold out and continue to see empty stands in spots.

My question: If you were AD how would you go about addressing this issue? Restructure student sections maybe? Shift over visitor sections? etc?

Note: This doesn't necessarily apply to empty visitor sections since I know that functions a bit differently. Still looks bad though...

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Comments

If you really want to fill those sections, they need to get more strict on how student tickets are distributed. The south endzone area is where lottery ticket winners are supposed to sit. The top of East are really high up there for some students.

So, what they do is photoshop a ticket to put their name on a better section. Use the real ticket to get in and then pull out the photoshopped one when they check tickets at sections. I will admit I am completely guilty of this and have done it for the past two games to impress a lady friend.

Until they are fully electric and no way to change the name, then you're going to see those empty spots.

Those would be the most bad-ass tickets if they were fully electric!

i may be wrong but I believe the 2008 season had electronic football tickets? You got a season ticket card with a barcode instead of print at home pdfs

Chem PhD '16

Yes, i still have that season card in my wallet

@VTimHokie85

Personally, I loved that option for season tickets.

I thought it effectively weeded out the people who bought season tickets for the sole purpose of buying them to re-sell at a profit.

Problem is, there were legitimate times where I had friends unable to attend a game, but instead of giving their ticket away or selling it at a reasonable price they weren't able to fill their seat. I knew a few others who lost wallets that included their season ticket... whoops. They didn't make it easy to get a replacement, from what I recall.

I've run into this issue myself. I've been a season ticket holder since 2011 but I can't make it to the games sometimes (or at all right now living in Guam) because of my job so i end up selling them to friends first and then the ones i don't sell to friends i end up putting on stubhub, however i've only had like 4 games in the past 6 years that i wasn't able to sell my tickets.

"That team is gonna win football games, ok, they've got good players and good schemes and all that kind of stuff, BUT NOT TODAY!!! NOT TODAY!!"
- CJF

They could also add ticketing info to students' Hokie Passport. I think you'd still have to have someone validate that the face on the Hokie P matches the person carrying it.

Side note - It's ridiculous that we need a paper ticket in 2017. In all the concerts/games/shows I've been to since graduating college, Lane Stadium is the only place where they wouldn't let me bring the barcode up on my phone (or have a better mobile ticketing solution), excluding venues that mailed me a physical ticket.

Twitter me

"validate the face" -- people can get in on a student ticket with pretty much any passable Hokie P. I have only used my ID for entrance and my ID has only been used for my entrance, but I know plenty of people who have gotten a friend or significant other in with a student ticket by borrowing an ID.

Chem PhD '16

This tactic, while different because of technology, is nothing new. When I was in school, we would send someone up to the appropriate section where we all wanted to sit, get tickets from others for that section, and bring them to whoever needed to get into said section. North End Zone always had about 20-30% more students than the number of tickets for that section.

agreed. for Clemson game I would say North Endzone was close to double the amount of actual seats.

I sit in the 4th row of East and on Saturday against UNC we had probably twice the amount we should've had in the row. Clemson was even worse. It's most just North, surprisingly.

Agreed, twin!

But yeah, I do wonder what the weight limits are to the NEZ and if our inability to limit the number of people in there could be setting us up for the structure itself to deteriorate in the coming years.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The structural design should have a fairly large factor of safety, so I probably wouldn't worry about a failure.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

They need to have factored in overloading AND jumping, and THEN a safety factor.

I too am 100% guilty of this. I just want to find a way to possibly improve the situation.

I doubt they could go 100% electronic (it would be cool though) due to the fact that not everyone, myself included, has signal to do anything on Gameday.

It was a catch!

If I made a funny comment I probably stole it from Reddit.

Legalize Ranch!

To add to this, a lot of students that do go to their section, will pack down in lower seats. Most don't see a point to go to the top when there are openings lower down.

Add to this people trying to sit with friends, and I don't really blame them, and I think these cover most of those empty seats. It looks like people are missing, but shots in north and the section in east look absolutely nuts, which is kind of fun to see.

Photoshop?

You are way too cautious, we used to just simply print another ticket of a friend use their name. Although if they ever decide to check for names at the entrance of north it would impede that method. Too bad they never seem to care much.

You went through more effort than you needed to, just had to have a copy of a NEZ ticket and tell them that the person's name on the ticket gave it to you. It worked for the OSU game and a couple other games that year. They may have increased security since then though. Alternatively, get some Marching Virginian clothing and say you just want to visit a friend... that also may have worked.

"Hokie religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo

I have it on good authority that this is unlikely to work.

The two tickets also doubles the amount of paper airplanes being tossed around...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I have literally never had anyone check my ticket going into any section in the east stands. I have gotten in there with a ticket from the north endzone and a ticket from the south endzone. If they want the stadium to be entirely full, they'll just have to do a better job of checking tickets and even then it's too easy to get around it. We never even went through the trouble of photoshopping names. Just print a couple of copies of one ticket and as long as it's in the correct section they will let you in. People will always find a way to sit where they want.

"...When we step on that field, they bleed like we bleed and we're gonna show the world."
-Corey Marshall

See, it had never happened to me either before the Clemson game, but for both that game and the UNC game, they were checking to make sure we were actually assigned seats in section 1. And they were even waling around and checking after people had sat down.

Maybe this is what happens when we're good?

Probably so. I'm sure they want the stadium to look full specifically on national television. But there's really nothing they can do. Unless they beef up security you can walk to pretty much wherever you want and take a seat and no one will be the wiser. As long as we keep selling tickets and people keep showing up to be loud I don't think it's a huge deal. I do agree with some people on here though. Find a way to accommodate more students in the NEZ and this problem would probably fix itself to some degree.

"...When we step on that field, they bleed like we bleed and we're gonna show the world."
-Corey Marshall

Or just require ticket scan to get into North with Hokie Passport. I am guilty of it as well. The security is a joke. I got in twice during the UNC game wearing my Alumni hat. There were UNC fans in North for craps sake.

Recruit Prosim

If you were AD how would you go about addressing this issue?

The only way to enforce it is to completely lock down entry into the North End Zone. Outside of that, the student sections outside of the North are always going to be sparse.

In reality, the way I would combat the issue is seeing what options we have to add more bleachers to the top of the North, and bring the entire student section into it, converting the existing Student tickets in the East and South to Donors.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Agreed, I think we desperately need to expand the NEZ. I'm really concerned about the structural integrity having almost double the amount of people supposed to be there on a continual basis. Since everyone wants to be there, just expand and make it a permanent structure, then create more season ticket seats for donors/general public like you suggest.

The rumor I had always heard was that the soil under North can't support large permanent stands.

Recruit Prosim

There are many ways to reinforce poor soil to handle bigger loads.

Great point, I think a lot of people are anti-Lane Expansion. I agree except for the North Endzone. There's obviously a tremendous demand for seats there. Expanding that and moving donors to where students are would be a good move while increasing attendance.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I wouldn't be opposed to expanding to 70k if it meant closing in the North Endzone and making it a bit bigger on the sides.

It was a catch!

If I made a funny comment I probably stole it from Reddit.

I know this has been discussed before, but I believe the reason that north is only bleachers is because of underground utilities (sewer and what not).

Knowing the underground limitations, I wonder if we couldn't just do a full scale enlargement of the NEZ bleachers, and connect it to both the East and West at the level the seating tops out at on the West? Not all our seating has to be a concrete structure, and the aluminum bleacher aspect of the NEZ gives our student section a unique feel. Play up on that, expand it to incorporate all our students in the NEZ, and contain the problem.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

That would be fun. It sure as hell does make alot of noise. I definitely don't want to ever find out that it is unsafe over there.

If I recall correctly, the south end zone expansion could not connect to the east and west sides or those side would have to achieve current zoning (at the time); the separation allowed the south end-zone expansion to be viewed as a separate structure.

I presume the same would be true for the north end-zone now.

While true, there are ways around that limitation. Just make sure the two structures don't touch. NCSU got away with it when building the press box at NCSU by leaving about a 6 inch gap between the top of the seats and the press box structure. You can kind of see it from these photos taken during construction:

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I've also heard that there is a clause in the agreement from the land donation from the Worsham family when the stadium was originally built that states that the mountains have to be able to be seen from the stadium bleachers. Putting up a north end zone that mirrors what is in the south would obstruct the view of the mountains, apparently.

There's really no reason to expand the NEZ when we can barely sellout Lane as it is. Besides, while I agree the NEZ is very packed for the first half of games, it gets sparse in the second half. It will look even worse if we expanded it, and you see the endzone on TV a lot more than the upper corners of the East Stands.

Put all the students where they want to be. The demand is surely there.

Then sell more season tickets where all the students used to be. People will come. They will be cheaper seats up there.

What's
Important
Now

The problem is there is nowhere near that kind of season ticket demand these days to sell those seats as season tickets. There were seats at the top of Section 33 that did not sell as season tickets and went to mini-pack & individual game sales-- those seats are just as cheap as the seats in the corners or top of the SEZ.

If you guys think it's hard to get a student who has a free ticket to sit in those seats, I'm genuinely curious why you think it will be easier to get an alum or general public to pay $65 and sit there. They'll move down to empty seats too ... or just buy cheaper better seats on the secondary market.

We may advertise the games are sellouts, but there are a LOT of tickets going unused every week. I couldn't believe how soft the secondary market was for the UNC game considering we are Top 15, it was Homecoming, and we had perfect weather. This week is shaping up to be even worse when you look at what's available on HokieTickets and StubHub. There are gonna be $10 seats on StubHub by Saturday afternoon.

Agreed. We need to win consistently for another couple seasons and this problem will take care of itself. Then maybe it makes sense to have the discussion about a NEZ expansion.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

All the students cram into north. That's the only reason. Nobody wants to sit in south endzone and it's so easy to cram into north.

Chem PhD '16

Even during the sellout streak it seemed like it was rarely ever a legit packed house, and my UVA brother-in-law constantly reminds me of that fact.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

Well every section in Scott Stadium has empty seats to choose from. Pretty sure once you get inside the stadium you just get to pick a seat. So it's not really fair to expect your UVA brother-in-law to understand

Agreed. Until LOLUVA fills up their stadium more than halfway with their own fans, instead of only having over half capacity once every other year thanks to our fans, they have no room to discuss the matter.

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FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

Remind him of this...
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I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Historically, the South End Zone has been exclusively Freshman Lottery tickets. Most who get in, sneak their way into North. The North East corner is similar, except that's exclusively student season ticket holders. The South East section is exclusively Road team allotment. So, unless Tech gets super strict on exact seating, students will always sneak into North and this problem will always exist...

Fix that and the god damn paper airplanes and I'll vote for that person for GD president of the United States.

Those fucking airplanes starting before the game did and only got worse as it went on. Saw three kids get hit in the back of their heads, an older lady get plunked in the ear and a teenager get one to the glasses, good thing he was wearing them. But I'm sure it's just because the students needed something to do.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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That's easy IMO, make it an actual ticket delivered through campus mail and eliminate the print at home option.

It was a catch!

If I made a funny comment I probably stole it from Reddit.

Maybe if they had listened the browns wouldn't have gone to Baltimore, they would have made a Super Bowl, and that shit stadium would have been replaced sooner.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I'm a man! I'm 43! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Cause and effect, it's sciencey shit.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Leg for sheer grouchiness

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

This letter exchange is amazing. I have a new respect for the Browns. At least their legal department from 1974.

Glad someone else feels the same way that I do about these things.

Should we also get off your lawn? It's a paper airplane, not an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle.

Recruit Prosim

I counted 37 fucking paper airplanes landing around me Saturday. An awesome game and some in my little section of Lane was throwing 37 paper airplanes. How in the hell can anyone think that's even remotely ok?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

The fact you even took the time to count how many there were shows that you might be obsessing on this a little too much.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

In his defense it's not like the game was ever in doubt. I'm pretty sure what we did the UNC was illegal in most states.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Because I made sure to stand up and crush every single one of them. Had a large pile of tickets, programs, and one random opened up cardboard thing turned into a plane.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

My solution? Sit/stand on the west side, I don't recall seeing a plane yet this year.

I don't think many of us here like them. But you're being overly dramatic. I learned a few years ago that they are just a fact of life at games until we get rid of paper tickets.

This topic has been brought up countless times on this site, which you know. You can keep complaining but it's clearly not done any good.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Now can you post this on each of the new jersey threads but without the reference to tickets?

37? In a row?

context:

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Clerks 2 is such a good fucking movie, and Mallrats may be the most underrated movie of all time.

37 paper airplanes and you lived to tell the tale???? Talk about survival skills.

How in the hell can anyone think that's even remotely ok?

Because its a paper airplane and not:
1. Bags of piss
2. Batteries
3. A bomb
4. Ninja throwing stars

Is it annoying? Yeah sure. Dangerous? Not really, maybe in a REALLY unlucky case, but in all honesty you're more likely to fall down the stairs at Lane and break an ankle than the airplanes cause much harm. Definitely not worth counting every single one you see...

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Saw three kids get hit in the back of their heads

Did they need stitches?

So it's not annoying if no one needs medical attention. Got it.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

No I just think it's funny that you're complaining about paper hitting students in the head

I didn't say students I said kids as in 6-12 year olds getting hit. It's sad that so many few this as just something to deal with. I spend a shitload of time and money to enjoy the game, I shouldn't have to be watching out for airplanes that come flying in behind me. It's a simple respect for others thing.

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Join us in the Key Players Club

It's just paper

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I spend a shitload of time and money on games I go to as well and have to deal with things like really obscene opposing fans, drunkass Tech fans that fall on top of me and curse everyone around them, as well as broken bottles that people sneak in and leave around the stadium. All of those things are 100x more dangerous and annoying than a piece of folded paper. If you don't want to deal with paper airplanes, that's fine, I don't blame you, but find seats in the west stands so you don't have to deal with them.

Paper airplanes have been a thing for years. You've only taken up against the cause within the past two years or so. The Clemson fans I sat with thought it was funny. You say the game was awesome so they shouldn't have thrown them but you counted them. How is you counting paper airplanes any different than them throwing them? And don't give me a lame safety tangent. Until I hear a report of someone needing medical attention over a paper airplane it's a moot point.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

How is you counting paper airplanes any different than them throwing them?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

He means students aren't paying attention to game due to making/throwing airplanes, HF isn't paying attention to game counting said airplanes.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Or and since this is what I did, I waited until the end of the game. Collected all the ones our little section had crushed up and counted them.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Maybe students are coming with premade paper airplanes so as not to miss any of the action. /s

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

You're telling me you are so arsed by this that you stayed after the game to pick up 37 crushed airplanes so that you could make a point? Holy shit man you have got to get a grip.

Also I'm not saying you're lying but I've never seen more than like three or four in one game. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for it like you are but maybe try to pick seats in West or the southern part of east next season and you'll be much less bothered 🙏

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I actual stay after every game. I like watching the team sing, watch the press conference on the Jumbotron and just take in Lane.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I would feel like the Power Rangers or Godzilla if I was crushing things so miniscule with my bare hands...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Coming down the Lane steps like:

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

That's life in the East close to the student section. We spent one season there and never again. I didn't mind it as bad as my wife did. I was used to the behavior, but I did not feel like playing Dad/Good cop/Nanny every game. I just felt old sitting there.

As others have stated, it is probably best for you to move sections. Move away from student areas, or to the West stands, especially if it bothers you that much and takes away from you enjoying the game and atmosphere.

I'm in section 33L no where near students.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Nobody here is saying it's not annoying. But it's a paper airplane for goodness sakes. They way you, and a lot of other people, act you'd think people were throwing fire crackers down the stands.

Let it go. I promise you will enjoy your experience much more if you do.

Maybe if the paper airplanes were invitations to join the Hokie Club everybody could be happy.

Virginia Tech Class of 2013
Mining and Minerals Engineering

Sailing the Eastern Seas....on a ship filled with sand....

It's all fun and games until someone gets a papercut.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

At the Clemson game, the East Stands were notably overpacked. I think we just have issues with people not sitting where they are supposed to. I think the full numbers are present.

Let's Go

HOKIES

I can attest to this. Section 3 gets overrun with the section 1 students. Clemson game was actually the better game thus far with so many people getting in early. The delaware and odu games though, wooo...kinda infuriating when you hafta scrunch in knowing people just keep on packing in when there's plenty of seats in sec 1.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

Yeah honestly the only way to slightly combat this is to restrict seating. Putting individual backed seats would at least help a little although wouldn't affect students since they stand the whole game anyway. Plus I don't want to even imagine the cost of that project

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

I don't understand why student ID's can't be scanned as your way into the game? That's how VCU did it when I went there.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

You'd have to scan at the seats, too. Otherwise you just do what everyone does now and sit where you want after you get in.

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If we made the North Endzone general admission, it would at least
1) help get students into the game earlier to sit together
2) eliminate the need for paper tickets
3) #2 results in less paper airplanes

This would be how I imagine us fixing it, if we ever get around to it.

Tie your student ticket to your specific ID. If you want to sell it, have some type of marketplace that allows for you to transfer your ticket to somebody else's student ID. Swipe to get into the game.

When you swipe into a game, you get x amount of points to your account. When you leave, you have to swipe out. If it's before the half, you lose all those points. If it's at halftime you lose half those points. If it's during the 3rd quarter, you lose 1/4 of the points. If you stay the whole game, you get all the points.

Use those points to assign seats the following season and allow for students to buy away game/ACCCG/bowl game tickets.

It's not a question of the students not coming to the games. They are there, just not in their assigned seats.

As others have said above, the students move either lower on the east side, or into the north endzone if they can fake a ticket. I am not proud to say my sophomore daughter showed me her fake on Saturday.....she has a season ticket higher on the east side, but moves to the north end zone for the game.

Like half of North left the game after Homecoming was announced. Our fans are notorious for leaving early during not-close games.

Recruit Prosim

Agreed here. Lots of stadiums I've been to have a completely roped off student section - that means entry, sections, concessions, EVERYTHING is completely cut off from the "regular" seats. Hell, Auburn has a chain link fence in their concrete stands around the 25-30 yd line. Parents would come and talk to their kids over the fence. Sure, it's not amazing, but it works, and it keeps the students contained to their area. I see no problem with it.

Gotta think about the sheer number too there though. Can't really directly compare scanning several hundred, maaaaybe 1,000 for a basketball game to scanning however many Students in Lane every game

Problem solved. You're welcome.

Leonard. Duh.

Something something LOLUVa photoshop.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

In order to keep this from happening I'd think you'd need a pretty extensive, and inconvenient system.

The best thing I can come up with sitting here at my desk is to put student tickets on your Hokie Passport somehow. They could scan your ID to both get into the stadium and to verify your going to the right section. This way, you must present a photo ID to the RMC staff who then must scan it to verify you're in the right spot.

Pros of this would be that it'd be pretty hard to sneak in anywhere. You could get lucky and sneak by in the mass but there's no easy trick without risking getting caught. It would also help rid out the price gouging in the second hand student ticket market at VT could much more easily control how tickets are transferred between students.

Cons are that this would put a lot of burden on RMC staff and would likely slow entry into student areas. It would also take some effort to set up a system so that students could sell/transfer their ticket if they can't go.

Cons are that this would put a lot of burden on RMC staff ....

I didn't think RMC had the VT contract for security. Didn't they change security providers two years ago?

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

I use RMC as a general term to mean "those people in yellow checking your tickets"

Coming from someone who has been to games before being a student, as a student, and after being a student, there is nothing they are going to be able to do to fix this. People are going to sit wherever they want. Sure you can tighten security, and have event staff check everyone's stub, but all that is going to do is piss people off slowing them down getting to their seats. Even after that you can crawl over anyone you want to get to just about any seat you want to. The North Endzone has always been overpacked and always will be. You can put whatever measures into place you want, but it wont prevent stub swapping. People want to sit with their friends, and will sit on laps to do it.

Giving out physical tickets rather than print at home would help. Yes if you wanted to sneak someone into a section you could still have someone bring a handful of tickets down, or you could have students buying cardstock to try and reproduce tickets, but it is a lot more effort than one student printing out 10 PDFs and giving them to all of his SEZ friends.

It wouldn't make a difference. As you said, someone could just as easily bring down a handful of tickets, which is what we used to do before the print-at-home tickets were issued.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

And if you have ever tried going into the North, half the time the guards really just don't care.

They seemed to near the start of the games when I used to sneak in, but as the game went on, they cared less and less.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

It wouldn't fix the problem, but it would help. The harder it is the fewer people will do it. Even small changes would dissuade some people from sneaking in.

The impact would be negligible. But, yeah, I guess every little bit helps. Also, it would kill the paper airplanes. Which is always a plus.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Back in my day, we walked to our seats, grabbed extra tickets and brought them back to our friends (some weren't even friends, just hot chicks that we thought something could happen maybe even though we'd regret it later) so they could get in, upstairs both ways and we liked it! None of this printing tickets and transforming them into paper airplanes like we're some airplane creating god. We had to bring our own real model airplanes out of real materials not this paper bullshit the kids just throw around willy nilly! This generation disappoints me.

We had to chisel our airplanes out of STONE! We hit KIDS and OLD LADIES with those airplanes and we were all thankful for the opportunity.

I was a student back before they started doing print at home tickets. The handful of tickets was standard practice for the NEZ, not really that much of a pain. I'm not sure it was as much of problem back then as I don't think students even had seats in the upper deck of the SEZ. The only way I could see curbing it would be to make its own self contained section with no reentry, but you would need restrooms and concessions to go along with it.

Changing the stands from metal to permanent stands would likely enclose the bottom, and add bathrooms and concessions at the same time. It would be a good redesign, imo.

At a certain point, the health and safety of the people within Lane has to take priority. The NEZ is an accident waiting to happen, and the more and more we have these late afternoon or evening games with legitimate sellouts, its only going to get worse. The NEZ wasn't built to hold as many people as it does on a given day. Maybe there are weight tolerances built into it, but the Enter Sandman entrance wasn't a thing when the NEZ was expanded back in 2001-2002. To routinely get (estimating here) 10-12k people going nuts and jumping to Sandman 2-3 times per game in an area made for only 8k... That can't be good. Bare minimum, if an evacuation needed to happen, it would be a nightmare in the North. Worst case, the supports begin to deteriorate and we see a collapse in the middle of a game.

The CT ran an article on the stadium last year.

"The student section moves too much," said senior Joshua Crews. "I think it would be really nice to make the student section a more permanent part of Lane Stadium. Right now it's metal and seems very temporary. I know our football team needs to get better for us to get more funds and to warrant making the stadium bigger, but I think it would be really cool to make that happen. I've only been in the North End Zone one time, but when 'Enter Sandman' came on and everyone was jumping up and down, I almost feared for my life."

Obviously, there's more than a little hyperbole and exaggeration in that statement, but it does lend itself to this issue. I don't think the NEZ was designed for the beatings it takes.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

^This

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I would hope that with the attention it's getting/gotten that we are making sure it is structurally sound.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

As a structural engineer, and knowing that Tech is one of the best engineering schools there is, I would be shocked, SHOCKED, if they didn't design or recheck the design of the NEZ to make sure there was no problem structurally.

The standard live load assumption for bleachers is 100 psf. You could easily make a conservative assumption and beef that up to 150 psf and re-check the design just to be sure. And who knows what was considered when that thing was originally designed and built. Maybe they accounted for jumping and excitement, etc. and beefed it up originally.

For reference, I think this picture does a great job showing just what 100 psf looks like.

And as an amateur fluid scientist, I know the load at the beginning of the game is greater, due to more beer being pissed out as the game goes on.

Oh I would certainly hope that we've done enough to make it good. I just worry seeing it weekly over capacity with the additional stresses that Sandman puts on it. But if there was a school to get it right, it would be us.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

my one experience in north was definitely closer to 150 psf than 100 psf.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Doesn't seem useful to compare a static load with a crowd jumping up and down repeatedly.

Recruit Prosim

There are plenty of safety factors in design that account for those things. For example in bridge design, the design vehicle load, which is already conservative, is multiplied by 1.75 for strength checks. There's also a reduction in the calculated capacity of most load carrying members.

I'm not as familiar with building design but I know that 100 psf number I pulled is directly from the leading spec. for load calculation. It would certainly be understandable if they beefed it up. Either way, I'm confident in the structural capacity of that thing.

A live load is not a static load, hence the term live load. A static load would be a dead load, which would be the weight of structural members and permanent non movable loads. Other loads that are taken into consideration are snow loads, wind loads, seismic loads, etc. The load configuration that gives the worst possible scenario governs. Trust me, given the fact that we are one of the best engineering schools in the nation, someone has looked at students jumping up and down on the bleachers and thought about it. Shit happens, but we've thought about it.

Strength design isn't the issue anyway, it's load tested at this point. I would be more concerned with fatigue or mechanical failure due to vibration. We have an ESM department that I'm sure would be giddy to run fatigue models and I'm sure we have a routine inspection program in place for the mechanical concerns.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Yeah fatigue would be a greater concern. I wonder how many, if any at all, fatigue prone details are in that thing. They have to inspect it once every year or two, right? If for no other reason than it's outside and susceptible to corrosion.

You're right on. Based on what I know about the structure from peeing under it while drunk, it would seem pretty resilient and redundant given the type of construction and connections. It's pretty much a big PEMB with all bolted connections. It should be able to move and flex pretty well. Again, I would think that this gets looked at a lot.

ESM is turning into biomedical

Recruit Prosim

This does not make any sense and I don't know how it could be true. A lot of engineering degrees have heavy fundamentals based in the ESM program. ESM goes a lot more in depth into the theory and does a lot of research. You still need to have the ESM program to teach everyone statics, dynamics, deforms among others. Biomedical would likely come out of the ISE department if anything with the Human Factors based grad school degrees.

"Facyson is a baller."
-CFB

http://www.beam.vt.edu/about/esm.php

It makes perfect sense for ESM to seed Biomedical Engineering. Kinesiology requires an understanding of mechanics that ESM provides. Biomedical is also has bigger potential of a major than like the 20 person classes ESM has fielded.

Recruit Prosim

I'm completely guilty of both sneaking myself and friends into the NEZ as a student. The NEZ is lit and it's the place to be as a student. It's also super easy to sneak into as others have said. This is what accounts for most of the empty seats. Especially, in games like Clemson.

However, as I get older, I can't help but wonder about the structural integrity of the NEZ as more and more students pack into the metal bleachers. I'm no engineer, but I fear overloading the metal bleachers combined with everyone going apeshit during Enter Sandman is an accident waiting to happen.

In short, get the hell off my lawn bleachers.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Not an engineer, but here's a quick mock up of an idea for replacement seats/bleachers:

Amen. Around the Clemson game I shared this same sentiment in a thread. Bleachers have been broken in some games...eventually the erector set won't take it anymore, and at that point it'll be too late.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

Free beer for those that sit in the upper South Endzone.

@VTimHokie85

Oh God! They'd have to cage the students off like a bunch of soccer hooligans. It would be marvelous!

If you've ever been up to the top of the SEZ, then beer does not solve that problem.

I get dizzy just being up there. I can't imagine what having more alcohol on top of that would do.

there is a general thought that some people just don't go to games and maybe people from that section get down lower towards empty seats. My freshmen year in 1995, we got some really high seats for student tickets, it was pretty bad, really high up there.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

when I was a student, standard practice for my friends was to make our way up to 5Q on the 50 yard line. Once the game started, we would move down as far as we could find empty seats and still be within the 40s. I watched one game from the South and one game from the North and hated both experiences. I'd rather see if we made a first down than know if we made a FG.

Of course, these days, when I go, I try to stay in the bottom half of East so I guess that means I've gotten old.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Agreed, I'd rather sit in East or West.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

The issue is that you were there to watch football. A huge chunk of the kids in North are there for a social event.

Recruit Prosim

When did we become LOLUVA?!?

He said social reasons, not to do homework.

North endzone is not the place to have the best view. It is the place to have the most fun.

Chem PhD '16

Sit in assigned seats...what is this grade school? /s

In general, I wonder if attendance is down across the ACC. I've noticed a lot of empty seats while watching other games.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Yeah, there's really no way (the way it's set up now) to keep people from doing what I did when I was at Tech:

The seniors in the frat get a block of tickets in NEZ, everybody else gets tix wherever, Senoirs go to the NEZ, one guy grabs all the seniors' tix and goes distributes them to everybody else. Rinse and repeat until there are 3x the people in a row. Distribute rocket shots liberally to keep neighbors from getting too pissed.

I've been drinking.

Well, my group of 6 is doing our part. A few grad students and guest tickets, all 26-30 years old. They gave us season tickets in NEZ, so we "sneak" into the top of South.

Seems like we aren't meeting demand. Most students want to be in the North Endzone why not expand it? Give non-students the other seats. People will come.

What's
Important
Now

This seems to be the most logical idea. When I was a student and bought season tickets I was put in the Upper South Endzone my first year and I would end up trying to get into North since I felt disconnected from the rest of the student body. I ended up spending most of the season in the South and as a life long Hokie it was still a good time, but if your a freshman or sophomore who is trying to fit in and experience a football game being put in the worst section is going to encourage migration. So I don't blame other kids from trying to get into North and expanding the East and North student sections seems to be the only way to fix the problem.

Make ESPN relocate all their cameras to places where the top of the student sections are not visible so that you don't see empty seats on TV would probably be easier than adding stadium seats, which is about the only way I can think off to prevent people from overcrowding into the student sections. On the other hand, overcrowding in the lower student sections forces everyone to remain standing, and makes it louder on the field and better in the close-up crowd shots.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

If it were me. I'd hire UVA's Photoshop Editor-in-Chief.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

the overpacking is temporary. The sooner we blow out our opponents, the less structural stress there is in NEZ and everywhere else after the 1st quarter.

We need to put at least 35 points on the board in the first quarter and another 35 during the second quarter. 😁

In all seriousness, I was guilty during my time as a student of helping overpack the desired location. It's tradition!

Let's Go

HOKIES

Anyway like some others have said the solution here is to alter where the student tickets are sold.

I understand why they do it the way they do - they're making less money on student tickets (specifically lottery) so they locate a lot of them in the crappiest seats (SEZ and East nosebleeds). That said, the students are the ones who are always going to find ways into better parts of the stadium and, at least for big games, you're always going to be able to find alumni willing to purchase and actually sit in the crappier seats. If you relocate those student tickets to more desirable sections of the stadium, less students will relocate and you solve both the overcrowding issue and the empty corners issue at once.

But if the university is perfectly happy with their profits and doesn't mind the empty corners in sellouts, that's fine too.

Overpacking the north endzone is very dangerous. We need to end this for safety reasons, asap.

As others have said it's largely due to students sneaking into North Endzone. And I'd say not only is it not a real issue, it's actually a good thing. As an athletic department the most important thing you can do for your future is give a great experience to the students who go on to become lifelong fans. And, frankly, having stories of sneaking into the most fun sections and going wild for big games is the kind of thing that builds those bonds. Tightened rules, bureaucracy, and separation of friends is a good way to leave sour tastes in peoples mouths.
At the end of the day, let the students have their fun, they're going to be the ones paying back into the system for years down the road.

Totally agree with you. Too many folks in this thread sound like "get off my lawn" types or they've gotten old.

As a member of both camps you mention, I can say that the NEZ thing sounds not only unsafe, but kinda stupid. How many friends does one need to sit with to achieve a "fun" experience? Sounds like a messy clusterfuck to me, and end zone seats suck, no matter how you slice it.
The problem of people sitting other than where they should be sitting isn't new, though. I have had season tickets in both East and West stands, and in the long run, it became clear that if I wanted to ensure the tiny personal space that I had paid dearly for, I had to add the expense of a stadium seat in order to achieve that. I will guarantee that this solved the over crowding problem for me, and woe unto the fan who chose not to respect that. I had to sit down hard enough to displace a few knees from the back of the seat upon occasion, but the point never had to be made more than once a game.
If you are lucky, you will get old, and I hope, for your sake, that you do. When/if you do, you might have a softer stance on the whole idea. It is usually better than the alternative, anyway. It is called "growing up".

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I have absolutely no issues with students who want to crowd out student sections in north endzone or east stands. But I can see how if they squeezed into season ticket holder seats where that would be an issue.

I'm assuming the fire marshall who has to worry about evacuation efficiencies might have something to say about it.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Just tell the student section that there is extra paper for the paper airplanes in the empty sections.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Most other schools have actual enclosed bowls or almost-bowls. Thus, no tall corners that everyone wants to move out of.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I hadn't thought of that before.

Recruit Prosim

I mean... isn't it quite obvious? This has been happening for years. Get into stadium with some kind of ticket and move down closer or to a different section.

Better sections get more dense and crowded while parts of upper level sections remain empty or sparsed.

There really isn't a full proof remedy to it. Too many students and fans to enforce it stadium wide. People/students will always move down closer. I am guilty of it because no one wants to sit on the shitty upper part of the South Endzone

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

want a real solution that won't happen in Lane so this post is a waste time....

Now that will solve your problem lol

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

If the student sections at the WVU game are any indication, no they won't.

We had 7 people within the footprint of 2 of those seats.

Even at FedEx this year those seats werent solving the problem.

Having worked for Rhino as an usher for a few seasons, I can say that many people who have SEZ tickets try to sneak in anywhere they can. I would find at least 2-4 people per game trying to sit in West 6 instead of SEZ. I sat in the SEZ for the GT Labor Day game, and while it isn't a terrible view, West/East is definitely better, and if you're a student forget about it.

A key thing to remember is the logistics of adding a system where the ushers have to scan tickets, this would take time and is prone to a lot of errors. Basically, it's just going to slow everything down and piss a LOT of people off. As it is the ushers are under a crunch for a short time to try and assist people to get to seats and keep things flowing smoothly. Not much you can do. I wouldn't worry about it too much since we clearly have the best big game atmosphere in the country.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I had a much easier way of getting in without a ticket

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

Member of the family works plumbing at Tech and he would get me and my brother in

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

Someone before me in the bathroom of the ODU game vomited, literally, over nearly every square inch of a stall. So...if he's in that sector of plumbing, may he have blessed days from hence forth, because holy shiiiit.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

That sounds more like housekeeping than plumbing.

God bless those house keepers. Some women threw up at the very top of east, they had to trudge all the way up there carrying buckets of water and mops and towels.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He usually gets me into the basketball games but Tech was like quit it and he was like okay

Hello all you boys and girls I'd like to take you to the inside world It's quite an irregular place to be But never fear you're safe with me. Well maybe

My post after the Clemson holds true yet again.

"Can we please enjoy this and save the stadium complaints (songs, standing, leaving early, airplanes, etc_) for a future loss against a crappy team? Or can we all just not have nice things."

I wouldn't stress all that much about the structural integrity of the NEZ. But it does bring up a good betting opportunity: Over/Under 59 on the rankings drop for our engineering school if the NEZ shows structural flaws.

The downside to more strictly enforcing students to sit in the section where their ticket is located is two-fold:
(a) it either slows down getting into the stadium/section and/or requires paying more ushers to implement the enforcement without a slowdown
(b) if you enforce it to a degree that students can't sit with their friends, then they won't come. then you still wind up with holes bc the students with the SEZ / upper east tickets just won't come, and then all you've accomplished is thinning out the NEZ.

Considering the tickets are sold, I have a feeling this is pretty far down on the list of things Whit is worried about.

Build permanent structure (which includes concessions, restrooms, etc.) in NEZ like Clemson - lower seating and luxury boxes along top
Make freshman seats SEZ
Make NEZ lower section general admission for students - essentially just reward the kids who get there early who would have sneaked in anyway
Cut off entry at capacity
???
Profit

The obvious solution is to oversell tickets in the SEZ.

They should put the corps in the nez. Consolidate the whole student section from the nez, east, and sez to the sez. The nez has 5000 and the sez 11000. I bet the #s work pretty well. The reason people migrate is because they want to be surrounded by rowdy students. The reason it's squished is because there's 5000 seats for probably twice that many student tickets. I think this would make sez rowdy but not squished. Less migration, Fuller corners. Should still get rid of paper tix if only to stop the airplanes.

The corps is only around 1,100 or so.

You're right. I should have consulted a photo. I still think consolidating the student sections is the answer. Students should have to leave their seats to go be in the student section. The huge L of students in east is so weird too. Could you imagine enter sandman on espn with a real student section at full force? We are doing ourselves a disservice.

*shouldn't

Could you imagine enter sandman on espn

From what I heard, you really did have to use your imagination for that on Saturday

The L shaped student sections in the East Stands predates even the North Endzone. Not that it couldn't be reviewed and possibly changed, but that is nothing new and I don't think it's come up as an issue in the past. It just has to do with what tickets are free/nominally priced (student tickets) vs what tickets are being sold for full value with donations required.

The main reason the students to all want to go to NEZ is because everyone wants to sit with their friends, which becomes vicious cycle as more and more students go to that section and very few (relatively) are left sitting in other sections. So instead of issuing most student tickets in NEZ and then fewer in SEZ, evenly split the issued /legitimate student tickets between NEZ and SEZ. Make critical mass in both end zones to lessen the draw to only one end zone. They are so used to going North is probably would not work, just trying to think outside the box.

I like the idea of a general admission section for students. Swipe you passport to get in. Have restrooms and concessions inside the area. No reason to legitimately leave. Swipe to leave. If capacity is met you don't let anyone else in, but if someone leaves, let in someone to fill their spot.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Theoretically, a club like bouncer at the entrance to the north would work. But it has been proven time and again that the technology for ticket swiping can be fickle at Lane, so I feel like it'd just end up being one massive clusterbadword.

"I'm a Miller Lite guy, always have been, since I was 8." -John Daly

how about this instead of a bouncer?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I'm not sure if Blacksburg or the county provides the fire marshal but that probably wouldn't pass. I'm also surprised he/she hasn't had some issues with overcrowding of NEZ.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

As someone that used to be a bouncer, I wouldn't touch this.

I think this is somewhat how penn state does it. It has resulted in iconic paternoville to get the best seats and perhaps the best student section in the nation. I've been to both stadiums. Beaver > lane right now.

Well they also seat 107k and have almost triple the amount of students.

EDIT- 20k more students at main campus.

Which means something along that line would have been more difficult to implement up there, and yet they somehow manage with a stadium nearly twice as large.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Does PSU have tent city of those wanting to be first in to grab 50 yard line spots? How is that controlled?

Clearly, the answer is razing the NEZ. Then, all students will have to sit in the East.

/s

In Soviet Russia, you don't raze NEZ, NEZ razes you.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

The last time I sat in the North Endzone, loluva won. I never went back.

A grateful HokieNation thanks you for your sacrifice.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD