FBI investigating & charging CBB coaches for bribing players

This is a big story and one that is seemingly not close to being done.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/9/26/16366046/ncaa-basketball-fbi-corruption-investigation-bribery

Considering you have individuals involved who work for apparel companies, it shows how their influence in AAU ball is really affecting the sport of college basketball.

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$100,000 to a recruits family directly from Adidas to ensure that he commits to Louisville and then signs with Adidas when he gets to the NBA.

Yikes.

I was for sure it was Papa John's.

Somebody hide the Hardees coupons.

No wonder Adidas couldn't turn a profit...it was going to the coaches/players.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

How does Pitino get out of this one? Also how does any coach involved or school coach again or stay out of the death penalty?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Even if he was involved, everyone knows he didn't last long

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Nice.

What's
Important
Now

This isn't an NCAA slap on the wrist type thing...these are federal racketeering-type charges being talked about. I don't see how anyone charged and convicted (even if in a lesser plea deal) coaches again.

Meanwhile at UNC...

Year 3 is coming up!

If they did not give PSU the death penalty. No one will get it over some cash.

Year 3 is coming up!

Death penalty is only for repeat offenders

Recruit Prosim

One of the sports agents involved in the Louisville issue has already been fired from his agency, ASM Sports, due to running up a total of $42,000 on a player's credit card for Uber.

Link

The crazy thing is, UofL is just as big a legitimate national power of a basketball program as UNC, so you'd think if UNC would get glossed over, so would the Cards. But no, UofL is going to get hammered in this while UNC skates.

And thats why its always a good idea to make sure your alumni make up a majority of the NCAA offices if you're going to break the rules.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

This is a Fed run case.
The UNC deal is NCAA run.
Two different animals.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Two different animals.

Ah yeah.... school probation vrs jail time?

Year 3 is coming up!

The UNC deal involved investigations form the NCAA, the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation (in cooperation with the Orange County prosecutors), and the more than one university investigation (including the Wainstein Report). Only the Bureau of Investigation had real investigative power because of criminal violations (subpoena & plea bargain power). Individuals could refuse to cooperate with the NCAA and the university investigators without serious repercussions, and some did refuse.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article73760402.html

I've been suspicious of this kind of thing since I watched that AAU Basketball doc on Netflix, At All Costs.

Miami and Louisville catching some new scandal is pretty nifty; a great look for the ACC. /s

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

Watched 10 minutes and yes it is all payola bullshit. Baseball the same way.

Year 3 is coming up!

Thanks. Was trying to remember what that documentary was called. I got a flight coming up next week. Hopefully it's downloadable.

Edit: I never saw the documentary back then, but still, goddammit, another ancient thread got me!

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

As an Auburn fan, this looks seriously not good. I was just getting into Auburn basketball, too. Looks like they might be headed to the chopping block. Chuck Person is a HUGE basketball personality and legend at Auburn. Very disappointing.

Here's one of the indictments. Linky

It makes the conversation we had about prospects picking schools due to the involved shoe deals look a lot smarter.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Umm every conversation we have on here is smart thank you.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I was trying to convey something about how 'just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there's not someone after you' but I couldn't quite get the phrasing right. So I gave up and went with smart.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

FDA is now investigating certain universities for influencing athletes decisions based on the cake-to-pie ratios in their dining halls.

Looks like we nailed that one too.....

I almost feel redeemed for leading that conversation down that terrible rabbit hole

Some players have to be deemed ineligible now right?

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Da U...niversity-7 is bak

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

That is a GAMEDAY sign if I have ever sen one!!!!!!

Gotta put
"On probation"
At the bottom though.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I wonder what this means for Anfernee Simons. He committed to UL for the upcoming class. IIRC we had an offer on him and Buzz went pretty hard after the guy.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Oh shit, we used to be Adidas, right?

Those were the Ricky Stokes years?

I bet they were paying us to NOT recruit players

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

We were Nike through the end of Stokes, switched to Adidas in 03 when Greenberg arrived, only stayed with them until 06 when Nike got the entire athletic department.

'07 Mechanical Engineering

"Touchdown, Tech! I have never enjoyed saying that more"
-Bill Roth

This is pretty huge right? You have to imagine the impact of this on the involved schools is significant. You also have to assume that the list of involved schools will most definitely grow. It's probably safe to assume that this investigation will grow to include football players, as the financial agents presumably deal with NFL player money as well.

Much of the noise is that the FBI will presumably pressure the named individuals to disclose more information / more schools / more individuals / more companies.

Who are the bigger fish here? Executives at the apparel companies? Or big name head coaches?

Imagine a scenario where several programs are significantly hurt from this - i.e. Louisville, S Carolina, and Miami. This thing has the potential to significantly shift the balance of power in the college basketball landscape from established dirty programs to lower tier clean ones..

USCw, SCar.

It's both. The OKST coach was at USCe until March and his charges come from his time there.

In one alleged scheme, Emanuel Richardson, an assistant coach at the University of Arizona, Anthony Bland, a coach at the University of Southern California, and Lamont Evans, an associate coach at Oklahoma State University, were charged with accepting cash bribes from a sports agent and a financial adviser.

Mr. Evans, until March, coached at the University of South Carolina, and the charges stem from his work there.

Link (WSJ)

HokieSpider

Oh yeah, this is big and will only get bigger.

The guys named thus far, are just the bait to catch the bigger fish. That's how the feds roll. They don't knock on your door until they've got an airtight case against you.

Then the question is, are you going to play ball or be a tough guy?

Leonard. Duh.

If these allegations are true every Adidas Affiliated school should be investigated

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Oh it will be....FBI!

Year 3 is coming up!

Nike is involved too

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Yup. This thing is going to explode

If Nike is really involved you can guaranfuckingtee it a 3rd Pac-12 school will be busted

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

This thing is blowing up on sports talk radio and TV. One guy said that if Pitino is still at L'ville next week he would be surprised. Pitino talked his way out of the prostitute thing last year but this is just too big to blow the same smoke. Old uscw is back at it again too. Oakie St.? They stink!

Year 3 is coming up!

The difference is this is an FBI investigation and not even Pitino is gonna survive that

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

They have video and audio of meetings, phone conversations and texts and email chains. The FBI agent said in his sworn statement to get warrants this will be bigger and more expansive. People will start talking and flipping when federal prison sentences start getting put on the table. Then the NCAA once it's in the public arena walks in and starts laying sanctions on schools.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Will the NCAA's work essentially be done by the FBI eliminating the insane NCAA investigation timetables?

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

They'll still find a way to botch it. Or lose it.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Please don't be involved, please don't be involved, please don't be involved...

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

If Tech is involved, it would be as embarrassing as receiving information on plays a team is going to run, and then losing to said team 6-3 in OT...... Too soon?

Too soon for what? That hypothetical doesn't sound familiar at all

I'd imagine this really only affect players that are/were thought to have a realistic shot at the NBA (hence the involvement of adidas and nike). So hopefully were not involved considering we haven't had too many players with that kind of hype (DFS maybe).

The MJ Walker saga this past offseason comes to mind.

These kids are being pulled in so many different directions it's hard to speculate what motivates a commitment these days. Given how intertwined apparel companies are with AAU basketball and how much potential money an elite recruit could make down the line, it's easy to see how a conspiracy theory like the italicized portion below could develop.

Just consider that his AAU team (Atlanta Xpress) was sponsored by Under Armour... and UCLA was considered to be the favorite at the very end, coincidentally a team that is about to start a huge new endorsement deal with Under Armour... but then FSU (a Nike school) swoops in at the very end. So how much did Nike pay his family to commit to FSU?!?

Given how things played out, what I just wrote actually seems more far-fetched to be honest, but I could see how leaps of logic could be made given what we know about basketball recruiting. Realistically, I think it just came down to a kid who was looking for a program that has a recent history of sending guys to the NBA plus lots of potential early minutes and less to do with conspiracies.

Of the scandals that I'm concerned about, this one does seem to be pretty low on the likelihood of VT being involved. I mean, Nike clearly doesn't give a shit about us (see all of our discussions about how shitty our Nike deal is). But I remember how far down the paranoia rabbit hole we went (to me it all seemed in total jest) about basketball players choosing schools based on shoe deals.

Low and behold, not even 6 months later, turns out recruits were/are choosing schools based on shoe deals, and people are probably going to federal pound me in the ass prison over it.

I mean, at this point, how ridiculous does the paranoia have to be for it to be totally discarded as unrealistic? Aliens? Zombies? I mean pretty much anything else is on the table.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Jet fuel doesn't melt apparel contracts, Brian!

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

reading one of the indictments it recounts a conversation between two of the indictees where indictee#1 is like 'It's off the books, right?' and indictee#2 is like 'it's one the books, but not what's it's for lol'.

And you can see indictee#1 doing

and thinking to himself 'goddammit fucking crime better moron'.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

They were actually taking notes on a criminal conspiracy. I'm both impressed and horrified.

Soooo relevant:

Twitter me

Gotta love The Wire

Illegal? Not that I know of. Am I wrong here?

Against NCAA rules? Oh hell yeah.

This might end up as a total shitstorm.

It's a federal case because these kids and their families were getting money from federal pell grants they wouldn't have been eligible for had the government known about the kickbacks.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

How does this work? Can students receive pell funds even when they are covered by athletic scholarships?

so.. kinda like tax evasion

Not kinda. It is tax evasion. You don't piss off the IRS.

GOOOOOOD call

I'd imagine all the sports companies will be subpoena'd.

PDXHokie

This will be fun to watch play out

I say this because I am 100% confident that VT and Buzz would not be involved in something like this, and because I like chaos.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I hope you're right.... While I feel you have a point about Buzz, I'd be surprised if this doesn't spread to more than just Basketball when it's all said and done.

I am 100% confident that VT and Buzz would not be involved in something like this

You are either naive, have far much faith in NCAA coaches, or both. This stuff 100% has happened at VT. Maybe not to this degree, but let's not act like our players (or any P5 player) is living 100% by NCAA rules.

Twitter me

This.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Thank you

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Each of the coaches is charged with bribery conspiracy, solicitation of bribes, honest services fraud conspiracy, honest service fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and Travel Act conspiracy. The U.S. Department of Justice said each of the coaches faces a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison.

Auburn suspended Person without pay effective immediately.

Oklahoma State suspended Evans with pay.

Arizona suspended Richardson and relieved him of all duties.

USC placed Bland on administrative leave. USC also announced that it has hired former FBI director Louis Freeh to conduct an internal investigation.

-- ESPN

Wow.

Louisville AD, Tom Jurich has been fired

Rick Pitino has informed his staff he expects to be fired by the end of the day.

Edit: ESPN Link

There is a Press Conference at 1pm, and neither Pitino nor Jurich are invited to attend

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

If you're looking for up to date coverage, follow this local dude => https://twitter.com/joesonka He knows his stuff and has been following the Louisville stuff since the beginning.

VT '10 #AllMaroonEverything

Pitino:

"You mean the free exchange of cash and hookers in order to get good players was wrong?"

Apparently the university president directed Tom Jurich to fire Rick Pitino and he refused, so both were fired.

Daaaaaaaaaamn.

EDIT: Don't know how accurate that is though, as I'm seeing in other places that the Board of Trustees are the only ones that can fire Pitino. His contract requires giving him a 10 day notice. Regardless, just wow.

From review of his contract, yup 10 days written notice from BOD.
Wonder if this counts...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I mean... "Fine... you're fired effective October 7th. In the meantime, you're barred from campus, you're barred from representing the school, your funding is immediately revoked, and you're expected to turn in your badge by the end of the day"

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

He had a $3,000 a month automobile allowance. That's ballin right there.
(And he just received a $750k bonus for being employed on March 31, 2017.)

Contract
Notice he's not actually employed by the University, but rather by "University of Louisville Athletic Association, Inc."

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The indictment details a classic example that seems to describe Louisville's recruitment of five-star prospect Brian Bowen but could easily be the template for dozens of recruitments every year. Essentially, the government alleges that "at the request of at least one coach from University-6 (purported to be Louisville)," the defendants in the case including a former NBA agent, an Adidas executive and a financial planner "agreed to funnel $100,000 (payable in four installments) from Company-1 to the family of Player-10. Shortly after the agreement with the family of Player-10 was reached in late May and early June, Player-=10 publicly committed to University-6)."

The evidence for that claim was found on a wiretap of of Christian Dawkins, the former agent. And as news of that allegation spread Tuesday morning, it didn't take long for reporters to uncover an interview from this June in which Rick Pitino described to Terry Meiners of 840 AM radio in Louisville how he landed Bowen.

"We got lucky on this one," Pitino said. "I had an AAU director call me and ask if I'd be interested in a player. I saw him against another great player from Indiana. I said, 'Yeah, I'd be really interested.' They had to come in unofficially, pay for their hotel, pay for their meals. We spent zero dollars recruiting a five-star athlete who I loved when I saw him play. In my 40 years of coaching this is the luckiest I've been."

--- USA Today

Apparently, the more money that changed hands, the luckier he got.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes.

I see you, coach.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

This is gonna make for one hell of a 30 for 30

I hereby copyright the title, "Cardinal Sins"

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Chapter 4..."When the other shoe falls."

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Featuring priceless Pitino quotes like:

"We need to get the shoe companies out of recruiting..."

What if I told you that exactly what everyone thought was happening was exactly what was happening?

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

30 for 30?
I'm ready for the feature film:

I'm only watching the feature film if it's rated R and includes the stripper/hooker scandal.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

I think they already made the film

Image result for he got game

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

More like

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

...capped off with Rick Pitino coaching the country's best basketball team......in prison!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Pitino is fired

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Please keep Buzz away from Gameday this weekend... its friggen cursed!

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

That is one tight jersey.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Corso's look is hilarious.

WTF, who's this vampire looking guy?

If you're from California you're not a Yankee. You're not really anything.

Follow @wasknick

"Rick PitiNoMore" - my friend Brad

Chem PhD '16

Rick Pitiful

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

He was about as teflon as they come.

Never saw a guy survive more scandals than he did.

The NCAA was never going to take him down.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

The 4 letter is now speculating that football programs may also come under investigation in this case.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Wut?! Not Petrino...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

That should be Patirino's defense: "It was a typo! Supposed to be that guy!"

We put the K in Kwality

How could they not? The money is a lot bigger in football, so....

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Yes, but what the shoe company stands to make from having a deal with the athlete is a lot less. NBA kicks is a muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch bigger market than NFL ones

Chem PhD '16

Exactly. Also, the NFL fines players for wearing cleats with any remote sign of personality on them. No one is allowed to get flashy shoe deals in the NFL. Maybe there were a handful of football programs involved, but basketball is definitely the biggest issue here

Not to mention, it's way easier to project future pros in basketball during their teen years than in football.

Also, marketing guys where you can see their face while they play seems to be a big deal when it comes to selling stuff. That's always going to be a problem with football.

The NBA also never really seemed to have a problem with their players having marketable personalities, either.

Chem PhD '16

True. The NFL shuns such traits, given how often we hear about certain players being "distractions to the team."

You have to think that the feds have something working. The NCAA had no idea about this investigation until arrests were made yesterday.

Article summarizes some of the things Miami may be worried about rn. LINK

TL;DR: Report details a bidding war ($150K) between Miami (Adidas) and Arizona (Nike) for 5-star Nassir Little.

It would not shock me at all if Miami is neck deep in this. They kind of came out of nowhere and became a bit of an elite program overnight, at a time that conveniently lines up with their decision to leave Nike for Adidas.

With that said, knowing Nike is going to be involved here, too... I do wonder if there might be a little stink involved with the Greenberg years. That said, if we were, we really sucked at making it work.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

We know Steph wasn't involved.
/ducks.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I dunno, which brand was Davidson wearing at the time? Maybe missing out on Curry is not all on Greenberg afterall.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

While Steph was at Davidson, they were a Nike school

in 2005, when VT offered Steph a walk-on spot, we were an Adidas school

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

And Curry is with Under Armor for his Seinfeld knockoffs

Chem PhD '16

Sounds like we need an anonymous tip to the FBI!

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

TIL that VT was once an Adidas school...

Twitter me

I wish we were still an adidas school. Nike keeps churning out vanilla bullshit uniforms across all sports. Plus adidas is just an all around superior brand.

NIKE (Nicé) was the winged goddess of victory--victory both in war and in peaceful competition

ADIDAS stands for Adi Dassler (Adolf Dassler) who is the founder.

Always go with the goddess of Victory over a dude name Adolf.

Let's Go

HOKIES

"Everybody knows the shoe is Nikes"

Yeah, its interesting. Back at the turn of the century, we were Nike in basketball under Ricky Stokes, but when Greenberg took over, he brought in Adidas with him. We were then Adidas for a few years before going back to Nike, and have been with them ever since. I know in baseball we were looong with someone else (Rawlings, maybe?) before going to Nike I want to say about 10 years ago.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

And again we are only Nike in apparel for Baseball, and brought in Easton for equipment, unless that has changed again since Coach Hughes left.

I guess James Johnson is no longer on Larraaannnnagggaaa's staff?

I know this sounds harsh, but I'd like to see people at ALL level (players, assistant coaches, head coaches, and apparel executives) serve jail time. They all share responsibility for the corruption that practically defines college athletics.

And not just basketball, football too. I'd like to see some of those SEC bag men go to jail, and I'd like to see players who took those bribes serve some time, too.

At the same time, I've always advocated for paying players fair, taxable, above-the-table hourly wages for the work they do for their schools. That would eliminate some of this IMO.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I'll get into this in a different thread -- this isn't the place for it -- but simply put, paying the players will never happen. You can't pay the football and men's basketball teams without Congress getting involved and saying you have to pay women's lacrosse, etc. And if the wage difference is drastic? More Congressional involvement.

Do we really want Congress screwing up college athletics even more than it already is?

I agree that this could be it's own thread, but I just wanted to mention one thing.

I wonder how many students Virginia Tech employs, in the dinning halls, library, admin offices, etc. I might be wrong, but I bet it's more than the number of students in the entire varsity athletic department. If so, I'm not sure it's that unreasonable to be able to pay all student-athletes a wage.

Also, I think you could make a strong legal/policy argument that paying a wage only to "workers" who provide income (i.e., men's basketball and football) would not constitute discrimination.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

well, something to note is that a lot of those jobs are "work-study" jobs that are, at least in part, funded by the federal government. So the university can employ the students at little to no extra cost. Also, as someone who did work study throughout college, I can attest that it nowhere near came close to covering all that an athletic scholarship covers. So the athletes are already getting a hell of a lot more than students doing work-study programs at Tech and paying them above and beyond this would have way more of an impact than just passing along federal funds.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

The players do get a stipend. And at the top end of $5,000, that's in line with what the non-athlete students are making for working.

edit: what Hokie07ME sid above also.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

You can't pay the football and men's basketball teams without Congress getting involved and saying you have to pay women's lacrosse, etc.

You can, if you just give each player the rights to their likeness, and let the market determine their value rather than the university.

Twitter me

This would only exacerbate the problem. The amount of unethical behavior would increase dramatically if players could market their likeness. It would be very common for all sorts of companies to claim to student athletes that their likeness would be worth more if they attend X school and follow that up with cash on the table.

It would be interesting to see what would happen because I could see some recruits valuing playing time/time until a starter at a school with a big fan base over a school that has a lot of money. Your jerseys/likeness would sell a lot better if you're THE big dog in town.

It's already happening now. Kids join an AAU team when they're teenagers that is affiliated with a brand. That brand pays coaches, players, runners, and other misc. people who don't have the player's best interest at heart to stare that player to a certain school, and sign a contract with that brand after school.

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Pitino got unpaid administrative leave, the athletic director got paid administrative leave, and the student-athlete involved got banned from all activities

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Pitino's leave is a formality. His contract requires 10 days notice before he's terminated. Don't know about TJ.

His contract states 10 days written notice is required. I'm sure the leave will last, oh, say, 10 days.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Jurich had a pretty sweet deal with Louisville too. He signed a 16 year deal in 2007. $500k base with $300k a YEAR deferred, and performance bonuses worth up to $644k, a YEAR.
AND
A separate deal with UofL Foundation for fundraising for $260k a YEAR and guarantees $300k of the $644k stated above.

And he just crossed this line...

If he remains through June 30, 2016, he will become vested in another additional retirement benefit of $160,000 per year for 10 years commencing at age 60.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Jurich's son, Mark, is Sr. Assoc AD/Development in the Cardinal Athletic Fund division.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

2018 Family reunion in prison...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm hoping those contracts had a "unless you are convicted of a felony" clause.

Seems like the question with her employment would come down to... was she qualified?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I guess that depends if she's the one on the right or the left...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Also on one's preference in 'qualifications' possessed by inappropriately aged young women.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Is this "qualified" shit going to end any time soon?

The joke was cute the first half dozen times. It's gone steadily downhill since.

Welcome to TKP where nobody cares how played out the jokes are. If you don't like the joke, just move it to tight end so Lawson doesn't transfer.

Chem PhD '16

Holy shit, I'm no math major but that seems to work out to......

......a fuckload of money.

Yup. And when you set up a non-profit to pay the AD and the b-ball coach, monies get funnelled.
And that's pulling from an article in 2007 when the contract was signed. You can't tell me things weren't updated when Pitino cut down the nets...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Papa John just got schnatted

From strictly a legal position is it in anyway illegal for the player/player's family to accept this kind of money? Assuming its claimed with the irs etc.

When they fill out the amateurism paperwork for the NCAA each year, and don't "claim" this, then yes it it illegal.

But I wouldn't imagine the IRS chasing them down for it.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I would. The IRS doesn't forgive or forget.

The IRS will definitely chase them down for what is taxable income.

Edit: And, assuming they live in states that assess income taxes, those states will come after their share as well. Some state Departments of Revenue can be even more voracious than the IRS.

You've got it backwards. Accepting the money isn't illegal, but not paying taxes on it is. Being against the NCAA rules doesn't make something illegal.

It's called a bribe...and it's a felony.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Year 3 is coming up!

If you're a NCSU fan right now, you have to be sweating bullets. Ignoring, for a second, the fact they have been an Adidas school for a while now, they just fired Kevin Keatts, who comes from the Pitino coaching tree at UofL, and was there when some of this was supposedly going on.

Yikes

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

they just fired Kevin Keatts

You mean hired, right? They haven't already fired Keats, have they?

Yeah, but I'll leave it. Figure it'll be right eventually

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Did Dan Snyder just buy NC State?

Ok L'ville is doing their thing. What about the rest of the schools involved?

Year 3 is coming up!

And if you look at this, University-4 is supposed to be Arizona. A Nike school. And it's said that there was a potential bidding war between the 2. The feds had enough on Gatto to arrest him, but wonder where Nike lands in this deal...

They took 4 assistant coaches. One from an AU school and three from Nike schools.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

President Frenk? Did the professor get promoted?

I just wish donna shalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala had to deal with this. bitch.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

I think the FBI hammer will be directed at Nike and Adidas, with the rest of this web being coerced to cooperate so they can nail the biggest fish - the shoe companies.

"Look coach, we don't care about you, we really want Adidas, but you have to tell us everything" -> is going to lead to a lot of coaches and ADs fired. But the larger story is that I think this results in the biggest quid pro quo bribery case....ever. The corporate fraud piece of this is just massive. Multiple government agencies will be all over this, including the SEC, wondering how what is presumably millions of dollars have cumulatively been funneled illegally and with extremely shady accounting.

The scary piece is that Adidas / Nike probably has, somewhere, records of where every dollar was spent...including the names of players and how much they cost.

And basketball presents itself for a case better than football.
Smaller squads. Dedicated camps/tournaments for the shoes companies. (Easier to track individual players and place certain people with certain recruits, same room-same time.) And a known dirty AAU system.

Just imagine what they may actually have on football, but can't quite make it airtight yet. That has to be 10-fold of this...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I doubt it. Shoe companies make a ton of money off of their NBA player endorsements. Nike, Adidas , Reebok and UA want the next Jordan brand. Kids love having a pair of KDs or Lebrons. Reebok had Iversons. I have ever heard of Bradys or Ryans or Fitzgeralds. Thats why this will mostly be centered on Basketball.

Correy

You must not have seen the huge Nike deal Odell Beckum Junior signed thisbpast off season and all the press he gets for wearing certain cleats when he warms up.

What's
Important
Now

lol 'Fitzgeralds'.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

This is probably only limited to true blue chip talent. The prize for Adidas and Nike is when these kids go pro, and, quid pro quo, sign their apparel contract with them. Adidas and Nike would only invest if they thought these kids had a professional chance.

If one top 15 kid is commanding $150,000, it can probably be assumed that all of them are commanding $150,000. Millions of dollars, over multiple years, with athletic departments functioning as conduits.

Luckily, VT has not signed too many of these kids aka none of these kids.

I would be highly suspicious of MJ Walker, the blue chip from last year we almost got. And if FSU was willing to be the middle man for him, who else were they willing to do so for? Sorry I'm not sorry. This is so big.

We probably don't want some of these threads to be pulled on. We had no shot at NAW until all of a sudden we did. I'm not saying we paid to get him but some Maryland fans could be suspicious like we are about Walker.

I know very little about recruiting, and only really started paying attention to it in the last year or so on here. But. Were I UVA and seeing the parallels between the thouroughbred thing and Augustine's 1 Family AAU program, I'd be more then a little concerned about where this goes.

I think this could end up being a massive, massive story.

I hope VT isn't involved. Dear God I hope VT isn't involved.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YA ON THE ASS PITINO

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I don't think it is quite the same with college football. There aren't the sponsor deals in the NFL like there are in the NBA that drive the industry. I am not saying that there aren't shady deals happening with recruits, but I think there are more, smaller type things happening. There are too many risks and too many players for people the be shelling out big sums of money for football.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

FWIW: Vegas offs on next Louisville Coach. Buzz at 8/1

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Now's the worst time to coach there. You can't use hookers OR cash to recruit.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

And you may not even have a program. They are already on probation for 5 years from the measly NCAA investigation.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Seems like a great time to be coaching at VT.

Yessir.
And with the extension/reworking of the contract for Buzz, pretty sure UofL doesn't have money for that buyout at VT right now.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Yea Louisville has the money for it. Their budget is among best in nation.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Because Adidas.
You do realize that cash cow is drying up in the Kentucky area, right.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Umm no. They have a massive and well funded donor club, they get massive construction and special projects donations from wealthy fans. Yes the appearal contract, top 10 in the country, certainly helps. But it's not even close to why their budget is over 100 million a year.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

They got that Papa John's money. Literally, I think he's their most well known booster and has basically single handedly funded their athletic resurgence over the last 10-15 years.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I guess they had so much money they could bid on players and serve them up hookers.

So there is such a thing as too much.

Without getting political, no there isn't. The only person who should have a say on if someone has "too much" is the very person involved and their immediate family, not nameless faceless people on the internet or the government.

Doesn't mean what was done with the money in the situation we've been discussing was right or proper, because clearly it wasn't. But to claim someone has "too much"? People should be lauded for GENUINE success, not shunned or shamed for it.

Success is great.

If that success is because someone's got their thumb on the scale in an illegal way, that's a problem.

Hookers, bribes to families, paying people in trusted positions in college or high school programs under the table, is all too much.

I don't disagree, but your earlier statement made it seem like the money itself was too much. The money is never the problem, it's what and how people use it that's the problem (or as DeShaun Watson showed, the solution, when you live and give like no one else). Or, as the saying goes "the love of money is the root of all evil."

I would have been more impressed with Watson, if somebody hadn't filmed him doing it. Quietly behind the scenes is more impressive than in front of the cameras.

I get what you are saying here. However, it may not have been his decision to film it and we likely would not have known about it if it wasn't.

I have little to no faith that the NCAA will do anything of note to them. I hope I'm wrong but I see them just sitting back and letting the Feds do their thing and then come in after like

Image result for yeah what he said gif

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

I'd probably have 'death penalty' somewhere between 2/1 and 4/1.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Yeah, I am not concerned about Buzz leaving to go there. They are about to be hit with devastating sanctions and it won't be pretty. They are going to have to get a place holder coach to get them through whatever sanctions they get hit with and then they can go find a real coach.

I think I would be so baffled and disappointed in Buzz if he took that job that I wouldn't even care.

They need to be hit with the death penalty.

Seriously, that is a program that is out of control and harmful to the student athletes.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Dick Vitale apparently got a call from one of the Assistant's that was arrested by the FBI, before he was arrested. He told Vitale that he is going to chirp like a canary, and that Nike AND Under Armour are involved as well.

What's
Important
Now

And I bet Dickie V was all OOOH OOH UNBELIEVABLE BABY

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Unsurprising.

Adidas, Nike & Under Armour are competing with each other tooth & nail to get these elite recruits on their respective circuits. The fact that they'd all employ underhanded tactics is the least shocking thing about this whole scandal, it was just a matter of time before more dirt comes out.

Speaking as a former Special Agent, this outcome is very likely. When people who never expected to spend a day of their life in prison get the bracelets slapped on, they usually become very talkative in the hopes of avoiding that fate. I bet that this is a really fun case since all of the little fish involved (assistants, college players, families) are going to be lining up to roll over on the big fish (corporations, head coaches and universities) that can afford high-priced legal counsel.

Needless to say, I am really going to enjoy watching my FBI family rip open the veil of secrecy covering NCAA basketball recruiting shenanigans.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, TKPC#490, One of us!

Yeah, I can see how those conversations are playing out.

Assistant: "Coach, it sounds like we're under investigation."
Head Coach: "Yeah, well the NCAA is toothless so we'll be fine."
Asst: "Not the NCAA, it's the FBI."
HC: "Fetch me my brown pants."

Your just telling us this now? You need a AMA thread, my late neighbor was a supervisory agent in Newark in the 90's, he had great stories.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Sorry Fireman, AMA not going to happen. I was an Agent in Richmond from 96 to 08 then decided to pursue a different calling. In the words of one of our greatest American philosophers:

"That's all I have to say about that."

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, TKPC#490, One of us!

In other words....

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I just watched that episode the other day it's a pretty good episode

What if i take my life today? Its not like anyone cares anyway

I'll take "Least Surprising News Headlines for $600," Alex.

Two Louisville 2018 commits decommeted any chance Tech will go after them there is a couple scholarship open

What if i take my life today? Its not like anyone cares anyway

While it sucks for those kids, and it's (possibly) not their fault, I would be extremely wary of going near anyone that is in anyway affiliated with this thing until the full scope of the corruption and damage is known.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

meh, just don't offer to pay them

i'd say there are a bunch of phone conversations happening right now between schools and AAU coaches, except that the chances of a wiretap are pretty high

none of the kids who solicited money will ever play NCAA basketball and by the time they actually matriculate, it will all be sorted out

We had an offer on Anfernee Simons before he committed to Louisville. I'm not sure how much Buzz will go after him now if he was one of the kids that took the money. The guy has all world talent. Although he may be disappointed that VT does not have prostitutes and 100k+ for him. /s

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

I know I was.

If you're from California you're not a Yankee. You're not really anything.

Follow @wasknick

You mean that didn't typify your freshman year? You must have chosen the wrong major./s

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

This is great but distracting from our need to be laser sharp on the upcoming Saturday night beat down!

Year 3 is coming up!

The most asked question in Tucson this past day or so: You want to buy my basketball tickets?

Tucson will burn down if basketball gets the death penalty.

It's not that bad yet, but many people are pooping their pants.

That town looks like it burned down a long time ago and got replaced with single story stripmalls.

(The foothills areas are nice though)

Agreed. That's why I try to stay up here in the mountains.

Used to live in Gilbert. Damn I miss the Mogollon Rim.

.

.
I never met a project that couldn't justify a new tool.

Oh, so you were also involved with the Tuscon hooker scene.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

That's the most thorough and detailed story on this that I've seen to date.

I came here to post the link. If you're curious how this all went down, it's a good one to read.

This is a great article. Not through it thoroughly yet, but what pisses me off the most right now is that Nike is probably actively bidding against us trying to get kids to go to their 'high profile' schools to compete with Adidas and UA.

Also, it sounds like they were just barely managing to come up with the cash for UL and the U. Which makes me a little bit less anxious that we're going to end up involved in this thing.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Augustine told the group that he expected Adidas to cover the payments because "no one swings a bigger [expletive] than [an unidentified Louisville coach]"

You know what they always say: It's not about the size of the boat, it's about the boat being on the water for longer than 15 seconds

It's not the size of the boat. It's the motion of the ocean. However, I can't take her to Europe in a dingy!!

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

First I have heard that Miami is involved!

Year 3 is coming up!

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

FBI ain't played nobody PAAAWWWL

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

T'd Up (The Ringer's Bball podcast) does a great job of discussing how everything happened and how it escalated over the years.

Twitter me

Separated at birth?
Well, good thing they can be reunited with adjacent cells...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Not sure what either of them are doing out of their coffin in broad daylight.

I guess Weiner is doing some hard time in prison...

Probably passing drawings to the young guards.

He sure got a stiff penalty

Correy

Sounds like some canaries are singing...

Last night on a bottom line it listed Rick Pitino as 'legendary Louisville Coach'. If the motherfucker was actively cheating to get all the wins that made him 'legendary' is he actually 'legendary'? or just a cheating lying piece of shit?

Cue comparisons to Joe Paterno because I'm masochistic.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

Last night on a bottom line it listed Rick Pitino as 'legendary Louisville Coach'. If the motherfucker was actively cheating to get all the wins that made him 'legendary' is he actually 'legendary'? or just a cheating lying piece of shit?

I mean, I don't want to defend Pitino the person, but he is the 'pioneer' of the three point shot. His contribution to basketball is not dissimilar from how Beamer revolutionized special teams or Chip Kelly changed offenses in football.

Twitter me

Legendary Pitino: prioneer of the 3 point shot and federally criminal recruiting tactics

Edit

Pioneer of the 3 point second shot

(It was right there the whole time)

As I say this, I'm knocking on wood: If frank had been throwing a hundred Gs a year in cash to 5 star quarterbacks, Virginia Tech would have 3 nattys and only one or two of them vacated.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

The key is they did not have the wiretap on Gatto's phone, so based on what we know, the only thing they definitely have on Pitino is the word of everyone that they have nailed. So they do not exactly have incriminating evidence against Pitino based on what we know, hence, no arrest. So unless the investigation turns up actual evidence incriminating Pitino, then he likely avoids criminal charges.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

We'll see what comes out of the snitching now that federal indictments have been unsealed and people have started getting arrested.

I bet he at least gets charged.

I've been cutting back on the drinking.

....and I remember when people were making a big deal about WakeyLeaks

Something about how we'd 'fucking fry for this'.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

We have ruined youth sports. And yes, while parents are to blame, there's a lot of greedy MF'ers cashing in on this. I've witnessed it in little league, watched the corruption of my favorite sport soccer dragging down the game, Gary Bettman, etc, it's a shame. We as fans suffer. We as players, parents, coaches, suffer. And what really kills me, is that it takes something like this for people to step back and do something. /end rant

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Honestly the solution, in my opinion, is to let kids just go straight to the league out of HS if they really think they're good enough. If they aren't, they're probably good enough to go get paid in Europe or Canada or wherever.

This. The real question that nobody answers besides "that's the way it's always been here" is why the athletic development of players is necessarily married to the university system for some sports.

Chem PhD '16

That's the American-ism of things. The big dream for their kids to go off to college and get an education. It's all predicated on that. That's the ultimate goal of the majority of parents in today's society.

On the flip side I'm not sure I feel an academy system in the US could work like it does in Europe. Too much money and political will to allow it to be a fluid thing like soccer and basketball academies. And, this is a big one, some parents just don't have a true understanding that their kid is NOT the next big thing. There's hope for that, but often times it's "mom-eyes" that cloud the vision.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

You don't think soccer is the most corrupt of them all?

It's corrupt in different ways.
The kids in the system get taken care of...teaching, training, learning, building.
The money is all above their heads, but the kids in the academies are still moving forward.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The real question that nobody answers besides "that's the way it's always been here" is why the athletic development of players is necessarily married to the university system for some sports.

Because we as fans love it and financially invest in the system
Because our government allows professional sports leagues to monopolize their respective industries
Because it allows our professional sports leagues to train their future employees for free

Twitter me

But that isn't how its always been done. For some reason, when Labron went straight to the NBA everyone go their panties in a wad and the 1 year rule came into effect.

Correy

I hate to give him props, but Paul Johnson said, when he heard this story breaking, "For the first time, I thought 'Thank God we're Russell Athletic."

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

One of the biggest winners of all of this:

Isn't he using all of his kids as marketing tools? How can that not rule his kids ineligible.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

LaMelo may be skipping college but they're keeping LiAngelo (currently @UCLA) out of all their Big Baller Brand advertising. He's the least highly rated of the 3 brothers, so it makes more sense for him to spend a few years developing his game in college than his younger brother, who could probably sit out a year and still be a lottery pick.

spend a few years ...

getting a degree so he can work for the company...

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Middle child syndrome

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

I heard from someone in the college coaching world that they're hearing between 20-30 AD's and coaches being fired and possibly charged when it is all said and done. Bill Self and Jeff Capel will be included. But that the end goal of the FBI is to dismantle the AAU system and corruption.

This could all be speculation on their part; I'm not sure where they get their information, but it certainly is believable. We shall see.

In my opinion if a kid thinks he is good enough to turn pro straight out of high school, then let him try. And Pro doesn't just mean NBA, but includes Europe and Asia as well. Allowing that and getting rid of AAU would certainly clean things up significantly.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

I personally would rather they adopt the football rule, of three years out of high school.

I'd rather they adopt the baseball rule. You can go pro out of HS, but if you choose to go to college, you aren't eligible until the earlier of 3 years or turning 21.

The various draft rules aren't the domain of the NCAA --and to a large degree out of the control of the respective pro leagues. For basketball, the current rules are a compromise and it's the players union that has prevented any more restrictive draft eligibility rules.

Uh...

Did you hear anything about...us?

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

From r/collegeBasketball

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Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Any chance this could be our boy Greenberg?

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

He ain't our boy

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Chip Kelly?

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

Read his later tweets, Chip Kelly.

I never understood how the Lache Seastrunk scandal didn't gain more traction. Lache sounds wise beyond his years according to This article.

After he found out, he left Oregon for his hometown school; Baylor. Wonder if he's giving any interviews these days.

Lache Seastrunk also on the All Names Team

Chem PhD '16

Okie St subpoenaed by feds wrt ncaa violations.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

NCAA would like to know what this "subpoena" thing is you speak of... Is that like when you say "please" when asking UNC to stop dragging it's feet?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Uhh yea so you know that press conference that was supposed to happen with release of findings. UNC asked to push it back some because they had a fund raiser starting that week. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, they are going to get away with it aren't they.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

they are going to get away with it aren't they.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

It's like the NCAA always says these days, being accused for a long period of time is punishment enough. After all, those people being accused have mostly retired by now, and those players can hardly remember that they took fake classes, so by the theory of attrition, it's mostly a victimless crime.

Just a quick update on this story which may include over 50 programs:

According to Yahoo Sports' Pete Thamel, "the breadth of potential NCAA rules violations uncovered is wide enough to fundamentally and indelibly alter the sport of college basketball" and "will impact every major conference, Hall of Fame coaches, a score of current top players and some of the nation's most distinguished and respected programs."

It's unclear when the information—which was reportedly obtained through 330 days of monitoring by federal authorities—will be disclosed publicly. However, Thamel did note there's a "general expectation" it will ultimately be released and that it could implicate up to 50 different programs

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759734

But it won't implicate us right? Right?..... Guys.......?

That team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

It should implicate the Greenberg teams. VT went clean after he was fired. JJ refused to keep up the payments.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

I'm hoping this post from SharkbaitHokie is just......bait.

(He got me, if so.)

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

I wish it was bud.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

We're going to need more than that.

There was a reason certain players transferred after JJ took over...

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Transferred, or were released from their LOI, because I'm thinking one in particular who ended up winning a natty at a certain having already been implicated school with an already fired head coach.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

You're catching on.

Edit: I was actually thinking of different one who did transfer.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Always had a feeling we'd be caught in the middle of this when I remembered that we were a Nike basketball school under Ricky Stokes and went Adidas when we hired Seth. Given some of the.... rumors.... I'm not at all surprised to hear we could be implicated.

That said, I'm not sure there's much to gain by hammering VT in this. We weren't a big fish back then, and as I said, we can very legitimately make an argument we under-the-table self imposed sanctions while JJ was coach. (didn't we have at least one year where we didn't even use all our scholarships?) If there are 50+ programs impacted, it would be near impossible for much, much bigger fish to be implicated, taking any and all attention off us.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

we were a Nike basketball school under Ricky Stokes and went Adidas when we hired Seth.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I don't know that I'd feel any better about "under the table self imposed sanctions".

If rules and/or laws were broken, and we as an institution did not come clean, I don't know it's much of an excuse to claim "Yeah, but we really sucked after that, and, um, it was on purpose!".

Now, if we happened to be playing the role of whistleblower, then I'd be ok with keeping it all under wraps until the investigation matured.

If Seth was involved in this, it explains an awful lot about the way he was let go.

DoeDoe missed something like 97 straight shots in Dec/Jan of his freshman year. The rate of return per basket must be the worst of this scandal.

Are you saying Greenberg was paying Finney-Smith and Harrell and they left because Johnson wouldn't pay them? I find that very surprising because even dirty coaches are not handling money themselves most of the time. Or are you saying Greenberg was facilitating payments from Nike? Or that some booster or boosters were paying them and didn't like the JJ hire so they cut off their funding?

Greenberg -$-> players (edit: family of players)

origins of $ unknown

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

I remember Harrell being gone before the Greenberg firing.

Did Harrell switch brands or just move to a team with more exposure?

He was granted his release from his LOI after Greenberg was dismissed. Ended up at Louisville, so he went from Nike to Adidas as well as ending up at a team with more exposure.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

But it was anticipated that he was not going to end up at VT even though he had signed a LOI.

I guess my point is that Greenberg's firing (& JJ's moral fiber) was not the reason Harrell ended up at Louisville, the issue was that VT was outbid prior to Greenberg's firing.

If Weaver became aware of a situation (VT's involvement in $$$s to players), this revelation could provide posthumous validation for the horrifically bad timing of the coaching change.

I don't think weaver knew. Greenberg was fired for being an all around asshole. Nobody in the athletic department liked him. JJ found out about the payments after Greenberg was canned so I doubt weaver knew about it until then if at all.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

I was hoping there was a perspective of that firing that I hadn't considered before which would make the timing of it understandable.

Possible. But it's also possible that Weaver, having learned recently of Greenberg's financial dealings, was looking around the room thinking, "None of these guys are paying players. Greenberg just doesn't fit here."

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

I mean, considering how bad we were under JJ, one could argue we already punished ourselves with a 2 year postseason ban and a reduction of scholarships after Greenberg was fired.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's just the state of the NCAA sports these days - these kids have a product that people are willing to pay a lot of money for.

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What are they going to do, strip away our postseason appearance?

They have much, much bigger fish to fry.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Interesting that most of the accused are moving to have charges dropped citing it isn't illegal to give somebody money. Some are also using the Cam Newton defense, the money was given to the family not the player.

Now it does mean that the players wouldn't have been eligible for college sports but that isn't a LEGAL issue.

Now it does mean that the players wouldn't have been eligible for college sports but that isn't a LEGAL issue.

I think that when it becomes tax evasion, it is a legal issue.

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yup

ding ding ding

@hokie_rd

I hate to take this perspective, but wouldn't the schools be innocent in that case? Wouldn't it be up to the families to report all forms of income on their tax returns?

There is no perspective to take. You are spot on. While the schools certainly arn't innocent in terms of poor ethical decisions perhaps, there really is nothing illegal about compensating a person, short of an actual bribe to avoid prosecution.

The responsibility from a tax perspective falls on the taxpayer. Would still love to see the NCAA grow a pair and start punishing schools, but something tells me that would just end up being a win for the lawyers that sue them on behalf of said schools

Depending on cash value, wouldn't the payers be responsible for some form of payroll taxation?

*not a tax professional, just one who hears occasional tax jargon this time of year

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Not if the money didnt make it to the players. See the recent case of one of the FBI targets having all Federal charges dropped, former Orlando AAU Director Jonathan Brad Augustine. His charges were dropped because he kept the money for himself rather than give it to the kid targeted to play at Miami. Not sure tax wise where he stands but the FBI is leaving him alone because they cant prove funneling if it didnt funnel.

Hard for Addidas to complain that they got ripped off. Our illegal bribe was stolen by the middleman.

Fine Print warning
There are several potential tax implications-
If say Big Shoe company is paying a player, to the player it's income and an expense to the shoe company likely hidden in marketing budgets. Technically the shoe company should issue a 1099 saying we paid so and so; just like all of us should if we pay a housekeeper, Gardner etc over a certain nominal amount. I'm guessing they don't do this.
As for the idea that it's a "gift" if a real person/ booster were to make the gift and it's over $15k per year, they'd have to file a gift tax return. Corporations can't make gifts it's all income if it comes from them.
If it's over $10k in cash you'd need to fill out anti-money laundering forms.
And just for good measure some enterprising US attorney might try to throw in a Sarbanes Oxley violation against a CEO who signed off on financials of a firm paying off players. SOX violations can be criminal as well as civil so you could end up with CEOs doing jail time. I'd guess a year in Leavenworth would shut this down pretty quickly.

Wow today's comments have surprised me. Had never heard about the rumors with Seth, though looking back and putting together the pieces (Harrell), it makes a lot of sense. Anyone have any more details on this? I realize it is all *alleged*, but any info would be appreciated

Seth Greenberg was paying players and STILL couldn't get into the tourney?

One would say it's certifiably insane to think that be possible

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

This clearly obsolves Seth from the SC fiasco. Since SC is a UA guy, he wouldn't take that trashy Nike money /s

We put the K in Kwality

*EDITED* I think the more these cases develop the more the better lawyers will win out, especially with as many mistakes in its investigation that the FBI has already had to admit to, including obtaining a large amount of the wiretap data on bad warrants.

They also had one of their top agents dismissed for using government funds for all kinds of personal items including food, beverages and gambling. All of this calls into question whether or not he will be able to testify if these cases actually proceed to court.

Article Here

The flip side of the coin of course is that the people taken to court may not be found guilty of crimes but the NCAA could still have evidence of NCAA violations enough to lead to firings, bans, lost scholarships, etc, but my perspective on that is, if this is as wide spread as it is rumored to be then I doubt the NCAA has the capacity or tenacity to pursue all the schools involved, especially after the multi year run around the UNC investigation that eventually led to nothing. Maybe this will finally take the mask off and provide an open discussion to compensating players quasi-appropriately for their impact on their respective sport.

The flip side of the coin of course is that the people taken to court may not be found guilty of crimes but the NCAA could still have evidence of NCAA violations enough to lead to firings, bans, lost scholarships, etc, but my perspective on that is, if this is as wide spread as it is rumored to be then I doubt the NCAA has the capacity or tenacity to pursue all the schools involved, especially after the multi year run around the UNC investigation that eventually led to nothing.

I don't have much/any interest in the criminal aspect of this, but I'm curious which/what level athletes get paid, how much, and how it's facilitated. The most ridiculous/unbelievable story I've ever heard is Ed Davis was given "a briefcase full of cash" at a party during his recruiting visit at UVA, and he turned it down to play at UNC. Is this true? How common is it? What players get this treatment, and how long does it continue for? Do all schools do this or just a handful? I can speculate/guess on the answers to most of these, but I WANT THE TRUTH!!!

Maybe this will finally take the mask off and provide an open discussion to compensating players quasi-appropriately for their impact on their respective sport.

This is the most likely scenario, if the allegations are as damning as we are led to believe.

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I made the mistake of going to a couple AAU tournaments and finding the section the coaches and other staffers were sitting in. I just wanted to see what kind of comments might float out in terms of evaluating talent etc. What they were intimating back and forth without saying things specifically wasnt that a guys talent put him out of their league but that his talent would cost more than they could put together and other comments of that nature. I doubt it would be in a briefcase these days with how out of place that would look but you could easily slip another team duffel bag into the mix with how well provisioned these AAU programs are these days. High schoolers with essentially shoe/uniform/warm ups deals year round accompanied by cross country travel. Too many easy contact points to pass along any form of enticement with little scrutiny at these tournaments especially with how often the AAU coach is directly involved in the process from the stories that have been confirmed in the past.

Yesterday's briefcase full of cash is today's bitcoin transfer (through a mixer, of course). No face to face interaction necessary...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

What impact if any is this going to have on the current basketball program?

I mean set aside the fact that we sucked and didn't accomplish anything from paying players. Pretty much everybody who could have been responsible, from the coaching staff to the athletic director all the way up to the university president (not that I think it would have even gone that far) has been completely replaced since this happened under Greenberg. Any sanctions would just be punishing the logo and not anybody who was actually responsible, so I hope they just vacate our meaningless ACC wins or something if they do anything.

I can't imagine much. Probably either a fine or vacate any wins in games where DFS played.

I wonder if ESPN would fire Greenberg?

Maybe they will vacate our 7 wins.

We put the K in Kwality

I laughed, but wish I hadn't...

I had a rabbit hole thought today. What if Buzz knew about the sanctions coming down the pipeline? And if that was a main contributor to him letting the 2019 class decommit?

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

We let the 2019 kids decommit because they didn't develop as anticipated and would not be contributors here.

This is correct. So far the Langley twins are numbers 199 and 200, and BJ Mack is 260 in the current 247Sports Composite rankings for their class. 247Sports is slightly higher on all three, having them at 168, 169, and 203. If the twins werent a package deal, I could see Buzz pursuing Keyshaun who is the better shooter of the two in what I have seen. The other piece that you have to remember is that both twins are point guards, which means that they would have come in as Robinson graduates, but you have Bede, Pigg and Jon Kabongo that will be in front of them theoretically by then. Bede and Pigg would have two years remaining so they could possibly take over point guard duties in their junior years.

Another factor is size. If you think Robinson is small for college at 6'2, 190 lbs, than imagine two 6', 150 lbs guys trying to run the point in the ACC.

imagine two 6', 150 lbs guys trying to run the point in the ACC.

Yea, let GT, BC, Syracuse, or any other ACC team imagine that.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Louisville just lost their appeal and now the 2013 National Title and 2012 Final Four appearance are vacated and nullified.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Hahahahahahahahaha

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

NCAA ordered him to remove /s

We put the K in Kwality

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Well fellas, there is now technically no 2013 national champion. To decide this, I call for a ladder tournament back in the Georgia Dome of all the teams Louisville beat in the 2013 NCAAs!

Someone get Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway to come down from New York! They can scoop Nik Stauskus from Brooklyn on the way. Tekele Cotton and Cleanthony Early better hurry, I hear Baker and Van Vleet are already warming up.

First round we got North Carolina A&T vs Colorado State. Someone find which sorority house Larry Eustachy is at and sober his ass up. Let's get this show on the road!

Colin aint the only one.
And the rabbit hole has been there for years.

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Florida
It has to be Florida

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

That is like claiming water is wet. I bet he is just doing it for clicks and does not actually have any first hand information.

The newsworthy aspect would be if were only one SEC team that was paying players

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Skechers is suing adidas because of this.

The federal lawsuit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, alleges that illicit payments made by Adidas and its employees "effectively blocked Skechers and other companies from competing on a level playing field for young, NBA-level endorsers, and unfairly bolstered consumer perception of adidas' overall brand quality and image well beyond the basketball footwear market."

Skechers, based in Manhattan Beach, California, is seeking recovery of Adidas' "ill-gotten profits, damages for lost sales and diminished brand value and increased advertising and marketing costs, and an injunction preventing adidas from making further illegal, undisclosed endorsement payments to amateur basketball players," according to the lawsuit.

An Adidas spokesperson called Skechers' complaint "frivolous and nonsensical" and said "it should be summarily dismissed."

Chem PhD '16

I'm a man! I'm 44! Hokie thru and thru.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm with adidas here. Sketchers are for preteens and geriatrics. Nobody hears "Sketchers" and thinks "high-level athletics."

I haven't seen any of the legal documents but I think that actually helps Skechers make their point. You don't hear Sketchers and think high-level athletics because of the illegal activity by Adidas (effectively blocking Skechers from having NBA-profile athletes and gaining reputation for high-level athletics.)

Edit: This is my interpretation of what Skechers argues/would argue in response. Personally I have no idea of that is a correct argument or not.

I immediately think of the KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH!

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith are two NBA players who have worn Skechers while in the NBA.

Edit: TIL that it's "skechers" and not "sketchers"

Chem PhD '16

Wait what?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Evidently Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith wore Skechers while in the NBA. Also, it's "Skechers" and not "Sketchers".

Chem PhD '16

Louisville settles with former AD Tom Jurich

The University of Louisville has reached a $4.5 million settlement with former athletic director Tom Jurich, who was fired in the wake of a national federal corruption investigation of college basketball.

Jurich disputed his Oct. 18 firing for cause after nearly 20 years as AD and had considered suing the school. The University of Louisville Athletic Association and Board of Trustees on Friday approved the settlement with the agreement saying his employment ended "without cause" as a result of his resignation.

Chem PhD '16