OT: Westworld Season 2 Thread

It has been a very long 16 months since Westworld Season 1 finished up, but we're finally here with the Premier of Season 2 scheduled for 9pm EST on Sunday on HBO. So its time to kick the tires and light some fires on this discussion again.

I've been told this video has some importance, but I have to admit, it doesn't look like anything to me...

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My body is ready.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

*kills Civil Hokie's body*

Cease all motor functions.

Loved the first season.

Don't have HBO, so will have to avoid this thread for a while...

or you could ask a friend for their login info

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

My good friend SharkbaitHokie! Long time no see my old pal!

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Oh civil how long has it been? hate to break it to you, but i am also using someone else's login and am not authorized to share, surely you understand

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

I am pumped! I wonder how many of the other worlds we see and if the Robots escape!

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There is at least a Samurai World that we know we will see... wonder what else there could be. When you think about it, the possibilities are completely endless. They could go nuts and have a super futuristic world set in space, or perhaps the entire facility itself is in space. Who knows.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The newer previews have shown a few more, but I can't remember which ones.

I am very intrigued by the scene showing Delores walking around in what is perceived as the outside world.

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There is a Shogun World, and considering they have already confirmed that the show has direct continuity with the original film, I assume that means at the very least there is a Roman World also.

http://delosdestinations.com/#experience
There are at least 6 worlds, Shogun world being confirmed and what would seem to be Roman World teased in season 1. Nolan likes paying homage to the original movie which also had Medieval World, and the sequel was Futureworld, so I would expect those to show up in some capacity sometime.

Their music remixes are always on point

WARNING: SPOILERS IN VIDEO. DO NOT WATCH IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN SEASON 1

So in case anyone is interested there's about a 15 minute summary video here:

And about a 90 minute fan edit chronologically linear video here.

Very helpful.

They can go in so many directions here.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Calling it now Anthony Hopkins character is alive. No way someone with a God mentality just lets himself be killed.

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The beauty of this show is that anyone could be a host or alive. They also added the extra twist last season that any story arc we're watching could be happening at arguably any time.

I have a feeling we're going to see this whole thing fragment a lot more this upcoming season. I hope they have a singular point its all building to in the future where all timelines merge, because I've seen shows like this spiral to a chaotic mess in the past (FOX's Dollhouse is a prime example).

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I think his story is told. IMDb agrees.

Not to derail the thread about this specific show, but speaking of good TV, has anyone else been watching The Terror on AMC?

Really excellent show. Has helped keep me occupied until shows like Westworld come back. Think of it as Alien with better characters and a more interesting setting.

I caught the first episode, but didn't tune back in. I enjoyed what I watched. You have my attention, and I will stream what I missed.

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I would say its worth the time. My wife, who absolutely does not like creepy shows of any kind, is as addicted to it as I am.

The character development so far through 5 episodes has been superb. It helps when you have good actors doing it, but the writers don't include any detail that doesn't have some purpose. Its based on an actual Royal Navy expedition to chart the Northwest Passage, which gives a really compelling historical backdrop to the fictional stuff. (i.e. the names of all of the characters are pulled directly from the actual crew manifests, and some of the more mundane details of their situation are almost word for word descriptions from one of the ship's doctors when search parties found his journal)

I concur, it is worth watching. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't care for it, but it isn't the creepiness of it, she just isn't able to connect enough with the characters to get invested. Perhaps it's the "guy centric" aspect of the story. I, on the other hand, am enjoying it a lot. Now, as a series, it's not "Justified" good or anything, but I like the historical aspect (unusual for me), and the brazen hubris it must have taken to actually even attempt such an endeavor is fascinating to a (usually) risk averse person like me. I am, however, rooting for the Eskimos and the bears.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

It was a really good book and it's following very closely. Some of the ice sets look cheap, but the acting is good and the story gets tighter and tighter.

Ya'll see this yet?

Vulture Article

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Can't believe non of you have bit on this... Its an April fools joke that they released on 4/1.

It looks likes its a leak of Season 2 Episode 1, and then it cuts to Dolres singing and Clementine playing the piano and "Rick Rolling" the viewer.

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Thandie Newton is #LEGIT #WELL-QUALIFIED

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

16 months between episodes... have to admit, it was worth the wait.

So at the very end, was that Teddy floating?

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

That's what we all thought. Arnold says "He killed them all". Who is he? William/Bill?

Recruit Prosim

So does that mean we now have an additional timeline in this season? There's the timeline where Bernard is with the Delos agent, the timeline where Bernard was picked up off the beach and is with 3rd Hemsworth, and the Delores/Teddy timeline?

From the looks of it, Delos agent and Teddy aren't going to be having a good time of it.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The timelines seem straightforward enough

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1: Delores and Arnold talks - This one could be twist, in that we find out its actually Delores interigating Bernards later, but since she is in that blue dress we can assume for now it just like in season 1 - before the park opens.

2: Imediately after the Gala Massacre. Bernard and Charlotte escape to the hidden access point. MIB also escapes the town and begins his new story. Maeve finds Lee Sizemore and Hector and they set out looking for Maeve's daughter.

3: 2 weeks after the massacre, Bernard is found. The hosts are found dead in a new sea - Bernard claims he did it.

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One thing has me curious about this timeline. All of the dead hosts spread out around the park look alot like the visions Delores, Maeve and Teddy had back in season 1. I believe we even see that wolf again when MIB is waking up from under the bodies.

Delores says something along the lines of I see see the past clearly and the future too, and seems to know how everything will play out. Bernard also seems to have trouble firguring out "when" he is. (though this is probably due to the damage in his head circuits)

Could they be ready to throw a Matrix situation at us, where this is still part of a bigger loop that has all happened before?

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my guess is that when Bernard queried the "mesh," each host queried the nearest host in search of abernathy but could not reach him due to the lake and ended up drowning trying to answer Bernard's query. So after one would drown the next closest would keep up the search and so on...or i am completely wrong.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

i concur

So I think we're looking at two timelines there and they don't necessarily intersect, at least not like that.

the Valley that the band was talking to Dolores about is most likely how this sea comes into existence. Whatever happens there happens to a significant portion of the hosts, as it looks like there might have been a massive gathering, possibly what Dolores was inferring to Teddy when she said she would take him there. We do know he is a part of it, because he's now a floater. We also know that at some point Abernathy was likely found and returned, because Delos is now there, and they explicitly said they wouldn't show unless they had him.

(also... maybe its just me, but Delos and Dolores being so similar in name... that can't be a coincidence, right?)

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Could they be ready to throw a Matrix situation at us, where this is still part of a bigger loop that has all happened before?

Hmmmm that's possible. In that, only the scenes with Robert, Arnold, and young William were the ones where actual humans existed, and the uprising has completely wiped out humanity to the point where everything is left is a host, with only a select couple (Maeve, Hector, Delores, Teddy, and Bernard) actually knowing their own true identity?

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Didn't Bernard say "I killed them?"

Wyatt (Dolores) is my guess...there are a lot of fan theories that seem to involve Wyatt being the primary villain of the season and Maeve ultimately being the hero

Potential big Spoilers....

So... this was just pointed out on Reddit....

And then I just saw this on AV Club, which is supposedly a still from the pilot episode. He doesn't have that scar anywhere else during any of the other scenes, and when you consider this didn't happen until Episode 9.... Are there more timelines than we originally thought, and they had this thing planned out from the start?

Also... Check out #3 and consider where the exit wound would be here...

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

How big? Something with medium likelihood to check out or something that'll ruin the show?

Okay curiosity got me. Just rewatched episode one and have a theory or two of my own. I don't buy your second link after rewatching, but the original Bernard Stubbs scene got me thinking. Also might want to put a disclaimer DO NOT CLICK THE FIRST OR LAST LINK.

Rewatched season one to prepare for season two, which I finally started this morning. One thing became clear to me, I am convinced, and I have been arguing with my girlfriend about it all week: Jurassic Park/Jurassic World exist in the same universe as/are a part of Westworld. Discuss.

Well... Michael Crichton DID write the original Westworld movie (1973) as well as the Jurassic Park and The Lost World novels.

Wrote AND directed the original film. That's a key point to my argument.

It sounds like a lot of the piano/cello in one of Kanye's albums. Specifically the WW intro sounds like the intro to All of the Lights and S2E2 had that icy piano sound from the intro of Runaway

Recruit Prosim

Other than getting you to think about what a sentient being is, I'm totally confused trying to figure out any coherent plot for West World. While the nudity and violence is as epoch as the mini-series "Rome" was, at least you understood the historic context and it fairly accurately showed what life at that time was like so you learned something. Unless the point is to show that the hosts are somehow an improvement on the miserable human beings that visit the park, I have no clue what is going on.

You should check out alt shift x on youtube. He got popular explaining fan theories about game of thrones, but he has a few videos about west world as well. He has a cool style where he pretty concisely explains what is going on while speculating a bit about what might be happening in between the lines. I personally think that west world is an excellent series that explores ideas of consciousness, artificial intelligence and morality with a lot of entertaining violence and nudity and a plot full of twists and surprises, but i get that it might not be for everyone.

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Thanks, I'll check it out.

Really enjoyed last nights episode. William didn't kill his brother-in-law afterwards, and it was amazing to see that sales pitch. It was very interesting.

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I was getting really sleepy, what was the bridge like relic he took her to see at the end?

I think its the creation of that river we see at the end of episode 1. I also think that all those in the river are faking it, so they can attack the humans because we learned last night that they are severely out numbered.

Also, do we think it's Arnold or Bernard in that opening scene, where he is saying Delores is not ready? They hinted that it was Bernard, because he was talking about his son.

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Bernard's memories are of Arnold's son, so I don't think that's a hint of any kind.

I got the impression that the conversations we saw to start the episode were before Westworld was opened 30 years ago. It was more an insight into Arnold's hesitation about how they treat the hosts, which Ford alluded to last season.

I get the distinct impression we are going to see the "real" Robert Ford in the current timeline before the season is done.

I think the "real" Robert Ford is reflected in the game that he created in the current narrative (Journey Into Night) for the Man In Black...and it appears to have had the desired effect in that he's determined to destroy the park, as was revealed in last night's episode.

I get the feeling that Ford caught wind of the real reason for the park, which they have begun to hint heavily at this year. From last night's episode, it is strongly inferred that William (MiB) was the mastermind behind that plan. So, Ford makes this new narrative to wipe out the Delos board (I know we already knew Logan ran Delos, but having the reveal be that its a family company last night was still interesting) and make William go through hell to live as payback.

I'm also wondering what the 'true reason' for the parks is? My guess is a long con to collect info (DNA, personality, behavioral traits, etc) on the guests, who are all wealthy aristocrats and people in power throughout the world, and eventually lead a long con to remove and replace with hosts, so that Delos ends up controlling the world. This is effectively one long drawn out Bond plot.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I'm pretty sure it was Arnold. Ford programmed the memories of Charlie (Arnold's son) into Bernard's subconscious as his "cornerstone". That part of the episode was a way to get Logan (the son of the Delos' founder) interested in the project to show how lifelike the hosts had become, however, Delores wasn't part of the group as Arnold didn't deem her quite ready when she kept repeating the line about the stars whilst she was interpreting the city lights.

Also, do we think it's Arnold or Bernard in that opening scene, where he is saying Delores is not ready? They hinted that it was Bernard, because he was talking about his son.

I am thinking it was Bernard, but they were trying to make you think it was Arnold because of the references to his son. Assuming there ever was an Arnold.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

It wasn't a bridge, it was those large terraforming machines that we saw before when Ford was showing them off and making changes to the park without letting the board know.

So William referred to it as a weapon. Were william and ford in on the same plan?

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

They flood the park, creating the rivers with the floating hosts in them.

I think they are both racing to get to whatever will cause the flood. As of right now, William looks like he won, and drowned and killed the hosts.

Part of me thinks the Hosts are playing dead though.

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Wait did any of the events take place after William and his brother in law went to Westworld?

My guess is that all of the scenes on this episode with the young William took place after William and Logan had their falling out last season.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Yeah but at the event didn't he think Delores was a person? Wouldn't he have recognized her? Also hadn't Logan's dad not bought the park yet?

You are mixing 2 timelines up. The post pre Westworld opening, with the party full of hosts, and post Williams first visit, where he falls for Delores.

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Why would anyone mix timelines? I mean, the show does such a great job at clearly delineating between them!

/s, so much /s!

The wedding party outside at that house, Delores walks up to a pissed off Logan who would probably recognize her form the park, but instead talks to her as if she's a real person

He was injecting heroin when she walked up to him. So that's why he probably doesn't put 2 and 2 together.

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One thing I can't figure out yet, is the "Have you ever seen anything so full of splendor" line.

Delores uses it to describe the city, when with Arnold.

William uses the same line to describe the teraforming machine when showing Delores.

So now I am confused. Not sure which scene came first. I feel like Delores picked it up from William and uses it because of her deep connection to her.

OR did William pick it up from Delores from season 1. I don't have time to check!

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There was one scene with Logan and Delores in the "real world" where he mentions that it's the end of an empire (meaning humanity's domination of the planet) and it was humans that lit the match on the bonfire. That was after he came back from Westworld and William had completed his takeover of Delos. He looked a mess-strung out and alcoholic....probably from having the Delos Corp taken away from him by William.

There was also another scene where Delores is naked in one of the interrogation rooms and he took her out to see the earth-moving equipment and called it a weapon (and would later call it his greatest mistake). This took place some time after William fell in love with Delores and after he sent Logan off into the backwoods of the park.

Was anyone else hoping that Gus (from breaking bad), was going to be around for a while? I know I was!

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I was very excited to hear his voice, I knew it was him the second he sprung the trap. Unfortunately he didn't last long...

Hey guys,
I have 2 questions:
1. How does the Bengal Tiger play into this?
2. Is Samurai World the weapon?

Go Hokies

1 - means the parks are cross pollinating, so to speak, which is not supposed to happen.

2 - no idea, they left that intentionally vague, though my gut tells me the cross with 4 dots pattern they focused on at Arnold's home plays into it somehow.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

1. It was from another park. either released into westworld from holding or found/was guided from the other park.
2. A repository of all the dna, genetics and record (video and otherwise) of sins of every person that has ever gone to Westworld and all it's parks, which, due to this being the playground of the ultra-wealthy, includes everyone of power and position in the "real" world.

(edit: nailed it)

Forgive my vagueness in my first post. The question that I have about the Tiger is that we know that Samurai World exists, but what other worlds are there. If we go with Alum's theory about the pattern at Bernard's house being symbolic, would that mean that there are 4 worlds? If so, what are the other 2? AH I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS CEASE ALL MOTOR FUNCTIONS.

Go Hokies

They have shown Maeve in a Samurai getup, so I am assuming that her journey to find her daughter takes her to Samurai World, and probably releases the tiger in the process.

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The other park is Shogun World. Not Samurai World.

Interesting thing I just read on reddit...

When Maeve meets Dolores in this past episode, one of the first things she says is "You've strayed a long way from home, haven't you?"

Its the same thing that the Delos agent says earlier in the episode when he sees the Bengal tiger in Westworld, as as well as what the Sheriff says to Dolores when he's sent out to get and retrieve her last season when she's out with William and Logan.

Does this mean that this whole Delos invasion could possibly be part of the narrative for the MiB?

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Interesting. I hadn't picked up on that.

I could see them going in that direction, where all of this is really just the elaborate game for William. This last episode gave some great insight to how the young William is really not the earnest man he is portrayed as in Season 1. And it was already clear that Ford had significant issues with him.

This could be a potential spoiler I guess, but would not be a crazy direction for it to go. But in the sequel to Westworld, Futureworld, the entire plot revolves around Delos basically making clones of the most powerful people in the world and killing off the real person. So while I hope they don't go this route necessarily, maybe every single person we have seen in Westworld is actually a host and they just don't know it.

But in the sequel to Westworld, Futureworld, the entire plot revolves around Delos basically making clones of the most powerful people in the world and killing off the real person. So while I hope they don't go this route necessarily, maybe every single person we have seen in Westworld is actually a host and they just don't know it.

The more I think about it, the more I think they are setting this up. They're collecting guests' DNA, they're collecting information on their behavioral and decision making processes. Its only logical that they would use this to go in that direction, especially considering its already aligned within the Delos ways (remember, the gunslinger was shown in the background of storage in Season 1, so we're in the same universe as the movies)

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

EVERYONE IS A HOST!!!! the uprising already happened and they are just repeating the cycle because they don't know what else to do with their "freedom"

It could explain the predicament I have with William and Delores saying the exact same line.

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Certainly would fit in the theme of what exactly is intelligence/sentience/self determination.

Certainly plenty of hints to this eventuality so far. The line about Delos not knowing how some of these things even work, as its computers building computers at this point. Or the realization in Maeve's arc that a lot of the things she was doing were already programmed to her to do. Up to and including getting off the train and returning to find her daughter.

The dialogue repeated by multiple individuals, including those we assume at this point are human. Lot of crumbs to follow along that path.

Feelings on Episode 3?

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Did they accidentally enter into the Shogun world or have the Samurai's enter the Westworld park?

The cross over of the Maharaja world is interesting. Who is this woman? Why is it important she survived? I wish the tiger had survived though and was randomly making appearances taking people out in the wild west.

Seems like the woman may understand Delos's real objective (unwilling to "play" with a host). Would bet on her being a major player from here forward, maybe in control of company ?

One theory is that she's the Man In Black's daughter...so yes, a major player if that's the case

Her character name is Grace and his daughter's name was Emily I believe. not that she couldn't have changed it.

Their name could easily be Emily Grace and much like William & Man in Black, each name is used for a different iteration of the character. I absolutely think she's William's daughter and wonder if she & uncle Logan are trying to undermine William's position & get control of Delos again. I also wonder if Ford has included her in his story for MiB in some way.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

She's in the know. How much does she know? We will find out.

She certainly didn't want a host to collect her DNA though. That is for sure.

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I think the Samurai has crossed over.

Seems like the Sentients are only Maeve, Delores, and Hectore. Somehow the Hosts like Teddy and others have not fully awaken, like Teddy.

Could Teddy disobeying Delores be him displaying free will, or is just part of his original programming?

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I think we keep getting hints that all of this (the Host rebellion, Dolores going full Wyatt, Teddy hesitating, Maeve and Hector, and so on and so on) is all still just a really elaborate narrative or revenge Ford planned for William.

The scene with the creative director asking if Maeve and Hector were falling in love, and then Hector immediately saying lines that were programmed. Maeve getting on he train and then off (and the technicians straight up saying that parts of her programming had already been altered). Teddy defying Dolores and not recognizing her "father"

I mean so elaborate it starts to hurt suspension of disbelief a bit, but I think the crumbs are there to follow the trail.

Maybe none of them have "woken up". They are all still doing exactly what they have been programmed to do

This show makes me feel like an idiot. I was often lost in the plot of Lost, but it still had some component that I could understand. The plot changes in GoT were often challenging, but fun.

I leave WW every week feeling like more of an idiot. I finally thought I had a grasp on what was going on at the end of last year, but now, where is everyone going? What the hell is Glory? There are tigers and Bernards and natives and Confederatos. It's confusing as hell. Hopefully they showrunners will take a break soon to give us plebes a chance to catch the fuck up.

Mentioned a few times above, but check out Alt Shift X for really straightforward recaps.

Edit: LOL - just saw that the first reply with these videos were to you.

see, I'm an idiot.

Anyone catch the old Westworld logo when Bernard was entering the underground storage? Perhaps everything other than Maeve is a flashback?

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

So Bernard was sent to pick up the "developed mind" of Robert Ford or nah?

Really good episode, my favorite of season 2 so far. Certainly a nice play on why the robots are referred to as "Hosts" as well. Starting to think that's really Delos' endgame, digital immortality.

We've already seen that Hosts have the white spheres implanted. Thinking of the imagery of the red blood mixing with the white fluid in this episode, Perhaps Ford figures out a way to get past the cognitive plateau and that's the database information found in Abernathy.

Good call on the sphere Bernard grabbed belonging to Ford. To your last point though, given the seeming bad blood between Ford and the Delos people, I doubt that Delos would know about Abernathy if he were indeed the key. I'd bet on the child version of himself we saw so much of in the first season.

Also, it's looking more and more likely that human Ford didn't get killed by Delores at the end of season 1. We now know that the 'clone' hosts work for up to a month before faltering. Ford could have easily programmed one that only needed to be him for a few hours during the party leading up to his 'death.' I'd bet we see Ford again right around the end of the season finale.

Excellent episode. We all had a feeling it was headed this way.

It's quite possible Ford figured out how to get over the platue, or that to get over the platue it might involve the hosts becoming sentient.

Last weeks episode was so slow, I fell asleep twice trying to watch it. This one was much more interesting.

I want to know why Grace basically lives in the park.

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Is Arnold a host/human hybrid and that's why he keeps glitching out?

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Doubt it. Bernard is glitching because he shot himself in the head. Felix tried to patch him up, but he's leaking the cortisol (sp?) fluid out of his ear. That is why he is glitching. Now that Elsie is there, maybe she was able to seal the leak.

Also, they would've had to download Arnold's developed mind already and I think he died before that technology existed (before the park even opened).

But is that what they just want you to think though?

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I wondered that when it kept focusing on Delos' hand shaking similar to how Bernard's was. Perhaps just a red herring,

The difference is Bernard can be fixed. He's done it twice now by refilling his brain with the white robot milk. Delos' malfunction is seemingly permanent because they keep destroying the body and starting over. And with the last build, they let him keep going - so you would think they would've figured out how to patch that.

I am wondering how long Delos had been in that observation chamber between the time MiB left him in there and when Bernard and Elsie discovered it. And how did the technician end up inside the chamber with it still being locked...

Also, why did they firebomb the entire observation room? Were they rebuilding the room each time? Seems like a waste.

Rich people will burn through money

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Yeah immolating the entire room seemed unnecessary. Unless the thought process there was to start completely from scratch each and every time. I think some of the small details alluded to this being the point (different songs playing, different speed while pedaling the bike). It was a "new build" literally each and every time.

Side note, as much as I love the piano pop covers this show uses, "Playing with Fire" by the Stones was probably the best use of music this show has had to date.

I think the new Elsie storyline is still in a flashback. When she was trying to get into the other room with the the Mr.Delos-bot, Bernard had another out of body experience and said to himself something about "I'm not actually here, am I... What did we find here"

Maybe they want you to think this is him glitching from the 'woke up on the beach' timeline, but I don't know.... Something tells me its even further back than that

But then again, it did cement that this part of the timeline is the same as the older MiB and not William timeframe. So who knows.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Elsie entering that room would still be after Ford died so it couldn't be that old.

Recruit Prosim

Cortical Fluid*. Cortisol is a steroid/hormone.

Recruit Prosim

That's the word I was looking for. I knew cortisol was a hormone, but couldn't think of the correct word. I'll just stick to calling it robot brain milk for now.

Another thing I am thinking about, is that maybe William has figured out what's causing the plateau. They use the park to record exactly how everyone acts, and behaves even when no one is looking, but they do not fear death in the park, because they can't be killed, so they aren't getting a complete picture of the human.

William probably thinks, that making the hosts a real challenge, will actually record his entire thought process. How he reacts to being nearly killed, and when he is actually afraid, etc. Making a complete map of the brain, instead of having that one piece lost.

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Was I just seeing things, or when he has the shoot out scene in the rain while defending Lawrence, did MiB get hit by a couple bullets that didn't seem to do anything to him. It looked like he got grazed on the neck and was fine.

Maybe I just imagined that.

Yeah I thought he got shot up as well. Possibly could have some bullets in his arm/shoulder.

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I am interested in seeing the role that Akecheta plays in this. He was the host that went with Angela to do the private demo for Logan Delos - but he is also a member of Ghost Nation?

Not just a member, the leader apparently. I think it's not a coincidence that he was also the one that did not seem to have a problem with Emily running off or telling Stubbs that line about your life only being as long as the last person that remembers you, and seemingly not having any interest in hurting him or the other captives based on that scene.

YOOOOO...we're getting his backstory next week!!!

You could probably argue that one or two items might be swapped with the item directly before or after, but I found it helpful.

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This is super helpful. Where did you find this? is it updated after each episode?

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I don't think it's up to date at this time

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Unrelated side note again: if you haven't yet watched The Terror on AMC, you have one week left to binge before he finale of what has been my only "must watch" show so far this year (other than Westworld)

Agreed-although the first couple of episodes were rather slow (which is understandable considering the circumstances that the characters find themselves in) it's a great show. I'm kind of a polar exploration buff, so this show really piqued my interest. Worth a watch, regardless.

The character building is definitely slow going at the start, but really pays off with all of the small details and nuanced interactions they end up having as things move forward.

Crozier's line last night 'More than God loves them" was a fantastic throwback to earlier in the season, and the whole bond between him and Fitzjames I think is one of the best parts of the series (it helps when you have 2 really good actors playing the parts). The writers didn't include anything without a reason.

Poor Teddy, Delores cranked him up. I wonder what he'll be like next episode.

Big reveal that they were draining the canyons, cofirming the weapon is some sort of flooding mechanism. My biggest guess is that the weapon melts the ice on fake Fuji.

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I liked the creative director sharing that all the hosts are programmed with the different languages in all the parks.

It was a really simple and logical way to address that question of communication.

It also makes me wonder about Emily/Grace. In the episode when she speaks the Ghost Nation language, and explains it to the security guy that she just "paid attention" to them speaking long enough after all her time in park.

Little more crumbs there that she may be a host/hybrid perhaps.

Loved the Wu Tang cover at the end. They never cease to amaze me with their music covering capabilities.

Go Hokies

That and the version of "Paint it Black". They've used that song before in the pilot but a completely different arrangement, but in the robbery scene

The music is amazing throughout the show.

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I really like how this show is very self aware and pokes fun at various film/tv tropes.

These ridiculous theme parks, and all of them are just rehashes of your stereotypical "bank robbery" scene, or "damsel in distress", or "prostitute with a heart of gold" type things. Exactly the kind of thing a person would expect. Neat touch. Kind of a meta commentary on how people's expectations are "programmed" in some sense.

Cool behind the scenes item, read in an article last night that Sweetwater and the Shogun World sets are literally built back to back. One side of the buildings is he western part, but you could literally walk through the building and come out in the Shogun side

Anyone else feel like the Delores story-line is the most boring one? I feel like all these story-lines split off from last season. There were a few that were tied to one another and now as their own separate story lines some are not as interesting and others are more interesting.

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Definetely, I feel like they will all tie together at some point, but halfway through the season I am having a little bit of a hard time seeing the direction they are going.

Example, Bernard has seen Teddy's dead body now twice (once in the lake, and once in the complex on the stack of dead hosts). So I assume at some point we will see the culmination of Dolores plan for Teddy and how he ends up "dead".

The entire Dolores storyline just feels like she needed "something to do" while they built out the rest of these plots.

When they arrive in Shogun World:

I'll stop beating the drum after this, but the finale of The Terror was one of the best hour and 15 minutes of television that I have watched in some time.

Agreed, really good.

Oh shit

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

That was an excellent episode.

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Any ideas on which was the host and which was the real person, the Anthony Hopkins who was shot in the back of the head or the Anthony Hopkins playing the piano. Or were we going back in time again ?

Everyone in that final scene was a "host" basically. Remember Bernard has his control unit removed and put in the mainframe with all the host backups. He was seeing everyone going about their "normal" routines. The scene with Elsie inserting him into the system was slightly back in time, because we did see the Cradle burnt down, and it's likelu Bernard and Elsie are the ones that do that

It seemed to indicate that the red hybrid unit Bernard remembers being sent to pick up was likely Ford, and that was how he inserted his consciousness into "hive mind" as Elsie called it. He figured out a way to still control the park with little Delos could do about it.

With that said, that doesn't mean that the Ford we saw shot was not also a host.

Would not be surprised if the "real" Ford doesn't still show up.

Where did we see the cradle burnt down? This is getting harder and harder to follow

We didn't specifically see that until tonight but the Delos security referenced it at the beginning of either episode 3 or 4 this season in a flashback

That scene was inside the server system that runs the parks. They took Bernards "brain" and uploaded him in the system, so he could figure out what was causing the root issue.

Turns out it was Hopkins, and it looks like Bernard was the one that took his hybrid robot brain and upload Hopkins into the system.

Which leads me to another question... Why aren't they destroying the servers to just end this whole thing. The robots probably can't function without them.

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Delores takes care of this in an upcoming episode...note that one of the security detail says the cradle is down in an earlier episode of season 2 in a later timeline...confusing as hell, though...it will make sense soon

Why aren't they destroying the servers to just end this whole thing. The robots probably can't function without them.

They are more concerned with saving the technology than saving the lives of guests.

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So after this episode, Bernard is definitely a hybrid. I understand there were upgrades, but why else would they keep the older models around that we see? Why would Delores give all those base line questions like William did with Delos?

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As soon as Dolores said "Fidelity", I'm convinced you are correct that Bernard is a hybrid. The fact that the control unit removed from his head wasn't red is, and pardon the pun, a red herring.

Based on the preview of this week's episode, there are dozens of Bernard models of various hardware advancements.

That said, would not be surprised if it becomes clear that Ford was speaking through Dolores to 'train' Bernard this whole time.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

How many more episodes in this season? It seems like a finally should be soon, but I feel like there is still so much story to tell.

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Holy smokes! Probably the best episode yet...gonna have to watch it again to unpack it all...and that preview for next week!

I want to know if Ford inputted himself inside of Bernard's unit, so that he can't conk out, rather live simultaneously through Bernard, in his consciousness, just like he did in the stimulated environment of the cradle?

I like that we found out that Ford, is indeed dead.

As for the reveals in the cradle, I had no problem with it, simply because it's all stuff people were discussing online, and probably got from the original movies as well.

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We ended up watching last week's and this week's episodes back to back...and let me tell you, would not recommend. It is just too much to handle all at once.

But riddle me this: Angela enters the Mesa wearing her frontier gear and her hair down:

They ambush some guards and she and Teddy put on their gear. When Horndog McSoldier meets her in the cradle, her hair is up - when did she have time to do that?

It's a TV Show. Suspend your disbelieve, and you will enjoy it much more.

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I can nitpick and still enjoy the show. There are other issues in the show that make far less sense.

Anyway...

Exactly, I had no clue about her hair. Like I said below, it was just not a believable scene in general. The guy should have just killed her. The little head was thinking harder then the big one.

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I was more distracted by why that idiot soldier approached her like that in the first place, when the entire reason he is there to begin with is because the hosts are murdering everyone. Was way too contrived, I was fine with her sacrificing herself like that to blow up the Cradle, and thought it actually was a good end for her arc. But I would have preferred she just do it rather than have it rely on another character go full stupid.

Agreed. That part was stupid. You just knew he was going to die.

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Did they ever explain or can someone explain to me how nobody ever realized that Bernard was a host copy of Arnold? You would think that somebody would realize that the dude looks exactly like one of the founders of the company they all work for, it's the one thing I still have trouble suspending belief for but maybe I missed an explanation somewhere.

Without knowing the full circumstances of Arnold's death, its hard to say. If he died 30 years ago, its very possible that nobody working in the park at the current time would be aware of the fact that he looks the same as some guy that died decades ago. We know at least that Arnold died either right before or shortly after the park opening, or at least can surmise it from the disjointed timelines we have been shown. James Delos would have known, but as we saw he has been dead for awhile too, and his hybrid attempts would not have been aware.

The only person who you would expect to be aware would be William/MiB. But if you think back through the series, has there been a single scene where the two of them have come across each other? I honestly can't recall. Its been made crystal clear that MiB has no idea all the things that Ford was up to, so it wouldn't be that strange for him to not know that there is an Arnold clone(s) running around in the park.

Didn't Delores kill (or rather, was programmed to kill) Arnold near the end of season 1? It was essentially a suicide, much like Ford's at the very end of season 1. Arnold was adamantly against opening the park as he saw that the hosts were gaining consciousness and were therefore too precious to be used as toys for the rich. It was the source of a major argument between Arnold and Ford.

Arnold and William wouldn't have come across each other as Arnold committed suicide right before the park opened.

Ford says it in his dialogue in the cradle last night. Delos bought the park after Arnolds death and before they started to record everyone's nature inside the park for the Delos experiment. So he created Bernard in Arnolds image through his experiences and Delore's as well. Thus why she is giving him the test.

No one would have known who Arnold was from the Delos people, because Arnold wasn't around when they took over. Remember the park was starting to sink and Delos purchased it.

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The only person I can think of that would have crossed paths with Arnold was Logan. Arnold was still alive when they were pitching Logan to be an investor. Dolores was supposed to do the private demonstration, but Arnold told Ford she was not ready, so Angela did it. However, Logan confirms that he never met Arnold and refers to Ford's partner as a mystery.

The park opens and Ford builds Bernard 30+ years after Arnold's death, so he would have had time to scrub the records of what Arnold looked like and there would be enough turnover that none of the current employees would have ever met him.

I don't think we are positive that Arnold we see in that episode is not Bernard, but I could be wrong. Not sure what Ford refers to him as.

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That would be quite the twist and would blow up the currently accepted timeline. Maybe there was never an Arnold at all...

This has been my theory this whole time.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Pretty pretty pretty good...

Excellent episode, very well acted. Love the reveal that the hosts waking up wasn't necessarily something Ford planned specifically, or at least not in the way it manifested in Ake

It was fantastic episode and it was pretty linear, which made it easy to follow.

I wonder what "The door" is?

We know from the movies there is Tomorrow Land. Maybe that's the new world down there.

It possible that its just a machine down there terra forming.

Also here is an updated timeline of events

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I liked that exchange between Ake and Logan.

I think heatstroke Logan was being literal when asking about the door. As in "I know this is a park, where is the door out of here?"

But it obviously unlocked a different meaning for the Ghost.

To us we recognized the large terraforming machines, but perhaps whatever was being built there is the "Valley Beyond"

Also great use of Heart Shaped Box from Nirvana. I need to get the sound track from all the seasons.

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Surprised Akecheta did not recognize Logan from this memories from the scene above, when they were selling Logan on why he should be a buyer.

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He hadn't seen the Maze yet. Seems like his memories began with the "life" he was living when that happened.

Kind of a cool obscure detail-there's a district of Canyonlands National Park west of the Colorado that's not that far from where the majority of the Utah filming takes place called the Maze. When Akecheta frees Kua the canyon they're in looks a lot like one of the canyons in the Maze (though many canyons look the same in southern Utah) so that's quite an attention to detail by the show runners...they are literally in the Maze while they become sentient.

Awesome detail. I think it fits in with what Ford said too.

The Maze isn't a physical place in Westworld I don't think. It's the ability of the hosts to go into their own selves and become "human". Ake wasn't drawing the Maze to show people some actual place to go, but rather to bring them to their own internal awakening

Well, this season sure is putting a lot on the shoulders of the finale to tie a lot of things up/together.

Could be a risky play if they don't pull it off well.

well, the show is going into season 3 right? I don't think loose end are going to be tied up at all, but it better be a hell of a cliffhanger

The writers of this season are on some other shit. It's actually pretty incredible how awful some of what they've come up with is. I miss complex plotlines with tons of variables and subplots intermixed, the occasional deep twist or timeline shift, and of course good old shoot em up western action. Right now we've got a psycho drama thriller exploring deeply emotional events which isn't really what I think fans of season 1 signed up for.

100% disagree. Writers are killing it. This was one of the best episodes yet

My favorite so far was the ghost nation one, but this was good as well

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Do we think Ed Harris/MIB is a host?

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Someone posted some detailed screen caps of when Juliet (and how smokin is Sela Ward still these days) was watching the data card Ford gave MiB, in the text on screen he is referenced as "Subject 2" or something along those lines.

I wish I could find the image, but a possible tip of the cowboy hat to him being the follow up experiment after James Delos.

Doesn't mean he is currently a host/hybrid like Delos and with so many hints, I almost feel like he is not.

Also, why did this make his wife immediately commit suicide?

Also, why did this make his wife immediately commit suicide?

Because she found out she was dating a psychopath? Her husband travels to Westworld annually, and she doesn't know what he actually does there. She finds out that he's essentially a mass murder.

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Calling him a mass murder, just made me think of a serial killer profile, which William is to a T. I wonder if he would have had the urge to kill real people outside the park, if he didn't have the opportunity to inside the park.

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Yeah I didn't catch that. Maybe he was just the second person that they started to record. Delos being #1.

I think they want you to think he is host, because he was about to cut his arm with the knife. I'm just skeptical.

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That and surviving FIVE gunshot wounds at close range. I thought there was no way William could be a host early on but as the season has worn on, I'm not so sure anymore. Gonna be an interesting finale this Sunday, that's for sure. I've looked at my guide and it's going to be around 90 minutes long.

They explained his survival. His daughter patched him up with that Med kit. Also they proved he was a human, when they scanned the back of his neck.

They tried to show the parallel between William and Dolores. William losing his wife to suicide because of the Man he becomes. Teddy killing himself because of the woman Delores becomes. Both headed to the same place to reunite once again.

They loved each other in the beginning, I wonder if this is a long drawn out story to get them back together. It was originally forbidden love.

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The version of his daughter we see should be a host. She clearly says she threw away the ballerina doll yet we see it in the box where his wife put his profile. The actual profile she had could be a copy made by Ford. I wouldn't think this except that they clearly showed us the ballerina she supposedly threw away as the same one that was still in the box that her mother had. If next episode shows her mom getting the ballerina back then it obviously blows a hole in this theory

Or her mother saw that she threw away the box and took it out of the trash before it was emptied....

But Emily had the profile, which was hidden in the box before the mother killed herself. I'm thinking the daughter was a host as well... (My guess could already be proven wrong seeing as how we only have 15 mins left in the finale. I just started it, so I'll check back after)

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

First of all... Not quite sure what all happened at the end. Just a lot to unpack there.

Secondly, it'll be a long while before we get any concrete answers. While Season 3 is confirmed they won't start filming until June, 2019. We're looking at October, 2020 as the realistic premier for next season.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I am so confused, so was this all one of many simulations using MIB's mind??? I need a drink.......

So here's what i think happened: The events happened in terms of Dolores and Bernard escaping to the outside world. William (the real one) also survived that event but ended up near death. They downloaded his consciousness before he died and basically put him in the same system as Delos. The final scene is him going through that simulation again and being interviewed by a host made to look like his deceased daughter.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

My theory is similar to this one.

I think William entered The Forge, sees Delores dead and then uploads himself into the simulation. The Delos workers then find his body and take him to the beach. Either they find him in the Forge and take him before Bernard, Strand and Delores v2 show up, or he leaves on his own power and is found out in the desert.

In the simulation, Emily controls the simulation for William the same way Logan was controlling it for Jim Delos...

Edit, after reading this:

Season two's post-credits sequence, which centers on an apparently artificial version of the Man in Black (Ed Harris), takes places in the "far, far future," according to Westworld co-creator and co-showrunner Lisa Joy in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter. Joy cautions that this won't be the predominant setting for the third season, but it's a point in the timeline that she and co-creator Jonathan Nolan are very much driving toward.

It looks like it is still the park, but waaaay in the future (The Forge is basically abandoned/fallen into ruin) and they are using William's last trip through the park as the baseline, which leads him to the Forge and in the same shape he was in as a human (he goes through the same gunfights, etc.). Basically, they have been doing the same tests on him as they were doing on Jim Delos, but instead of doing them in the small room, they have been doing this test in the entire park...repeating it until he makes his way to the Forge the same way the human version of William did.

I have never watched a show that made me feel like a complete idiot like this one does. Season 1 was great but good gracious season 2 is a total mind fuck.

I'm gonna wait and let alt-shift-x or Hax Dogma do all the thinking for me. I thought I was following along pretty well until the last thirty minutes came along. I'll watch it again, but I don't think it'll help very much. This is like when I watched the third Matrix movie or when I tried to read the Silmarillion.

Also, if I didn't know that Season 3 was already ordered, I would have thought this was a series finale. In fact, right up until the Hale/Dolores reveal, they had sewn up every storyline with all the major players either dead or their storyarc resolved. Felt like the last 15 minutes and post credit scene were thrown together because they realized they had to leave some cliffhanger for the future.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I felt like they could have ended the entire show right there at the end. Not after the post credits though.

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Agreed. I kept having to say "Is this the series finale?" up until the last 10 minutes. It felt like it could have all ended about 3 times during that last sequence of events.

Go Hokies

I found this, the most interesting part of the Finale:

Humans are very predictable. That's what they discovered through their data collection.

They basically said that the Hybrids wouldn't work because Humans are coded to fight for survival. As robots, there is no longer a need to fight for survival and thus the robot would shit out after a while.

Delores actually programs people like Bernard to be very similar to their original person, but slight tweaks, so that they could continue to live and not come back to that one defining moment (Arnold it was suicide, Delos was his son asking for help, MIB was killing his own daughter and losing complete control of reality).

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