New Names Named in reveal of FBI documents

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

ACC Teams added: Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Virginia, Clemson, NC State

Dennis Smith, NC State:"received $43,500 according to the documents. Another document headed "Pina," for ASM agent Stephen Pina, says Smith received a total of $73,500 in loans, and includes notes about "options to recoup the money" when Smith did not sign with ASM."

Jaron Blossomgame, Clemson: "received a payment by Venmo while in school for $1,100 according to the documents"

Players and/or families who are listed as meeting with or having meals with Dawkins
Wendell Carter, Duke
Tony Bradley, North Carolina
Demetrius Jackson, Notre Dame
Malcolm Brogdon, Viriginia

[Mod Edit: Embed related Tweet for more context.]

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Comments

But.... But I thought Roy Williams said he guaranteed UNC wasn't involved....

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Roy Williams learned the meaning of guarantee in the AFAM Seminar classes

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

He must have practiced with Pitino who said he knew nothing at Louisville.

It's Time to go to Work

loluva

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

How amazing would that be if they had to vacate all wins!!

That would erase 8 wins over us

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

from what I've read it was a single meal purchased for him and his mom. I don't see the NCAA making them vacate wins for $60, but who knows?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

They won't vacate wins for this

If single meal is all it was, there shouldn't be any repercussions (my opinion, not an analysis of NCAA rules). If a guy can't buy dinner for a prospective client, then the rules are pretty jacked up.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Coaches aren't allowed to give players a ride home if they see them biking in a thunderstorm 2 miles from their house.

The NCAA has never been about what makes sense. It's all about showing they're the ones with absolute power over the athletes.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

^^^This.
I can see them picking the low hanging fruit. It's an easy decision to make them vacate wins. Expect an announcement in 2021.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Would this be a prospective player or a current player? I'm actually curious as I don't know a lot about the NCAA bylaws. If you're a current player, this is allowed right? For instance, Coach Fuente having everyone over to his house for a pizza dinner is perfectly fine. However, him taking a recruit out to Red Robin with his folks and paying for it is against the rules? That leads me to wonder how do the recruits get away with these nice meals in the first place. If the money comes from the school, I guess it's okay? Pardon the ignorance and thanks in advance.

EDIT: I meant to say prospective player and current player, not coach.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

This was by a staff member in the equipment room at VT. I am not sure how it affects coaches, but it probably follows the same rules.

There are other weird rules. My wife played field hockey in college and they had this old couple that supported the team heavily. They had one dinner each semester at this couple's house, but they had to go through the compliance office at the school and get it approved each time.

Rick Majerus told a story about getting hit with an NCAA violation for taking Keith Van Horn to dinner after his dad died. He said they could keep giving him violations for it because he would do it the exact same way.

The NCAA has never been about what makes sense. It's all about showing they're the ones with absolute power over the athletes.

----------------

The problem is that if the NCAA allowed meals, athletes would end up with flexible spending accounts at every restaurant in town.

Every team is going to want to push the rules to the best of their abilities. At Miami, the account would be at all the local strip bars.

I'm sure they have reasonable lunch buffets at those "bars" in Miami...

At Miami, the account would be at all the local strip bars seafood counter.

At Miami Tallahassee, the account would be at all the local strip bars seafood counter.

Ftfy.

Click here to destroy wall.

The NCAA has never been about what makes sense. It's all about showing they're the ones with absolute power over the athletes.

This is why my comment was worded as it was. As much as I like to delight in UVa's misery, punishment for this offense would be stupid and I'd feel bad (for a moment) for them.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

If it's under $200 they can pay it back I think

Yes, but I think the rule is worded such that the value must be paid to a charity, rather than repaying the person who provided the impermissible benefit.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

It was a dinner for his mom at the Ritz Carlton before their opening round tournament game. There won't be a punishment unless it happened multiple times.

Quick trip to The Sabre reveals just how easily they are able to mentally sweep this one under the rug

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I mean, as much as I'd like for them to burn at the stake for anything, they really shouldn't be worried if this is all that comes out about it. Brogden's already gone

LINK

16.01.1.1 Restitution for Receipt of Impermissible Benefits. [A] Unless otherwise noted, for violations of Bylaw 16 in which the value of the benefit is $100 or less, the eligibility of the student-athlete shall not be affected conditioned upon the student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. The student-athlete, however, shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the impermissible benefit until the student-athlete repays the benefit. For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such violations shall not affect the student-athlete's eligibility.

Yea, they should start to be worried if one of the other 4000 documents shows that these meals happened more than once.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Congrats to James Johnson for getting his coaching record back over .500

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Do the losses get vacated though?

___

-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

What losses?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Not going to judge anyone else until we're in the clear.

Especially when they aren't even going to get in trouble for it anyway

The balls on that guy to just pay a player through Venmo. I mean, Dawkins is going to prison, but if it's any consolation to him he gained my respect.

Rip his freaking head off!

I bet he takes the UNC defense and says: "but I offer my loans to everyone! Not just basketball players!"

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Incredible. The amazing this is that many of these players took these "loans" from ASM, and then signed elsewhere.. a pretty clear indication that ASM just got outbid. "Bad loans" as they call them...

If a guy like Malcom Brogdon was having dinner with ASM, you can better believe that he was having dinner with other agents, and it's not that far of a stretch to assume at one point he could have received a "loan".

Brogdon never had dinner with anyone. His mom did. And he didnt end up with ASM.

Exactly. If Auburn didn't get punished for Cams dad shopping him around for over $100k, the NCAA wont think twice about a kid's mom getting a $60 dinner or two from someone not associated with the program

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how are the schools involved with this? For example, would Dennis Smith have gone somewhere else if all this never happened? Or would he still have gone to NC State. Everything I've seen just makes it seem like this was between the player and the agent.

ding ding ding ding

From what I remember when the story first broke a few months ago the agents involved were guiding players to specific schools in exchange for access to the players while they were in school. Seems like the info released today isn't related to that, but I think that is how the schools were involved.

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

Yea that's why I was wondering because that was the whole Adidas issue that involved the schools but this hasnt made any mention of the school yet as far as i can tell.

Consider me very interested in that $71.39 loan to Carlos Delfino, who is 35 and last played in the NBA in 2012-13. How does that happen? Seriously, though, what on earth?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's a balance sheet. That's the balance remaining on the loan. Presumably many of these dollar amounts were much larger earlier int he loan's life.

Get out of here with your logic and reason.

But I guess it could make sense, as Delfino was an ASM client

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm having trouble understanding why the FBI is spending its resources investigating this. Does this really rise to the level of national government interest?

If there is income not being reported to the IRS then it is, a lot of these guys are going to get nailed on money laundering charges I would assume, when the Federal Government finds out they aren't getting their money they get pissed

VT '17

I always remind myself that Al Capone was in Alcatraz for tax evasion/fraud. The IRS succeeded where the FBI failed.

Click here to destroy wall.

Not really but considering literally nobody else will investigate this with no bias, I'm not mad that the FBI is.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

The FBI is involved because it is a mulit-jurisdictional bribery case that deals with employees of institutions who receive federal funds. The actual paying of the players is considered bribery to get them to sign with X agency or X school or X shoe company because it is not being reported to the federal government. If you have the time read the indictments the FBI filed back in the summer.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Considering all the other major high profile cases the FBI is currently working on right now, even if they're doing this investigation in their spare time as a hobby, I'm fine with it.

That said, this whole thing is starting to shape up in the same way the mobs were brought down. They're going after the small guys, and uncovering enough evidence against them to legitimate put those guys away for life. Then you sit them in the back room and say "we can make a lot of this go away if you give us more names"

These small cases are inevitably going to bring the whole thing crashing down, because the pawns are going to start talking.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

This whole thing started by getting a guy to wear a wire because he was in trouble and needed to cut a deal. Basic police work in action. It will continue to roll up as long as guys are willing to cut a deal to roll on somebody else.

David Glenn said this exact same thing on the show this afternoon.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

If the offenses being investigated are violations of federal law, then the states have no jurisdiction and the FBI would have to be the proper investigative authority. I'm no lawyer, and have no idea of just which laws were violated, but that's the only reasonable way I see for the FBI to be involved.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

I can also see the Feds cooperating with the states, in the event enough evidence can be obtained to indict at the state level, but not enough to indict at the Federal level.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

From my research (aka, what I've gathered from a handful of different reddit threads), one potential reason is that athletes can receive funding from the Pell Grant. The Pell Grant is a federally funded grant that is given to students based on financial need. When you apply for the Pell Grant, Department of Education determines your financial need by calculating your Expected Family Contribution (EFC). The EFC is then compared to the expected cost of attending your college (tuition fees, room/board, books, etc) to determine how much financial aid you're eligible for.

IF players are receiving enough in benefits that it is changing their EFC, but they are not reporting it, then they are lying to the federal government, and taking money that could be going to someone else who needs it. This is fraud; it is illegal, and (in this instance, IMO) also morally corrupt. Although, I understand that coaches, much less players, probably aren't aware of this angle.

Some disclaimers:

  • The Pell Grant rarely gives individuals more than $5k per year; it's not like players are getting $30k/year from the Pell Grant.
  • I'd also point out that the article linked above was from 2014, I think before the NCAA allowed for a cost of living adjustment - not sure if the numbers have changed since then.

I imagine their are other similar versions of fraud/tax evasion that occur when players receive significant impermissible benefits without reporting it.

Twitter me

Does anyone else find this somewhat underwhelming? I thought this was going to be 'program crumbling'. There's a small handful of players over many years receiving 5-figures or more, and a slightly larger handful getting a few grand. This isn't really surprising.

Twitter me

I believe this is just everything they could leak that is not involved in the pending trials. I agree this seems small and irrelevant. I would imagine the large payments with shoe companies etc are all wrapped up in the criminal trials.

all maroon everything

The fact that paying players tens of thousands isn't "program crumbling" enough is disturbing on its own

Recruit Prosim

The current system of amateur athletics will probably collapse one day, and college players will be paid a stipend of some sort, but I don't believe this will solve the problem. There will always be rules violations no matter what we pay the athletes, because the temptation won't be satisfied until they are treated like pros and get their full market value. At that point, the association with schools will have to be abandoned, along with the quaint notion of amateur athletic competition.

I don't see how this ends any other way, but it'll be a sad day for me if it does end. I love NCAA sports far more than the pro teams, precisely because there is much more stability with NCAA team rosters, coaches, and institutional loyalty. We lose a lot if all that goes away.

If the current system for revenue sports collapses and pro farm systems take its place we'll probably still end up with something resembling Division II/III level athletics. As long as schools are willing to pay out athletic scholarships there will be kids who are talented enough to play but not talented enough to go pro willing to fill those spots.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

They should just do what happens in baseball or hockey where players are eligible to be drafted whenever, get invited to pro workout camps and assuming the franchise doesn't want to dress them at the highest level, Just allow the franchises to compensate and I'm not sure there's much a problem anymore.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

"We promise to act outraged and in two years either vacate wins pointlessly or claim that this lies outside of our jurisdiction"

--The NCAA, probably

They could always vacate the wins, and a year later reinstate them.

It's what they do.

Now we know why some guys leave school early, to pay back their (student) loans.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. " Rocky B.

Haven't had time to do more than skim the Yahoo report.

Am I correct that VT has not (yet) been mentioned anywhere?

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

you are correct.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

ESPN reporting Sean Miller is on a fed wiretap talking about a $100K croot payout.

Ruh roh

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Damn Arizona going to be firing a lot of major coaches in one year uh.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

If they were wiretapping these guys, it's highly unlikely Arizona is the only one to get picked off.

Anyone who was implicated today has to be worried the feds have them caught red handed.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

A 100K payout coordinated by a coach is pretty stinky stuff.

Somber mood in Tucson tonight...reminiscent of November 1st (the day of the dead)...which is actually a big deal here

Tired of this nonsense. If a booster wants to give a player 100k to play at a school, let them. All this shady shit is so needless. Duke's always going to get the best recruits anyway

That stance would probably be pretty bad for VT's competitive prospects. I would guess that a school struggling to raise it's booster club's numbers isn't going to be regularly shelling out 6 figures for top players. (Or maybe this is already happening and reflected in fans thinking our coaches "can't close" on top recruits)

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

"can't close" = "outbid"

The players are already getting paid through shady means. Anyone is naive to think this regularly doesnt happen. Recruits have been getting 5 figure payments since the SMU days. It didn't stop all of a sudden stop when the sports started bringing in billions.

If you want competitive balance, set a salary cap on coaches. Or on endorsement money. Competitive balance never gets brought up when Nike gives michigan 10 times more a year than us, only when people want to give that money to the actual players

must... not... down vote opinions...

So I haven't read too much into this at all but I don't understand why the FBI is involved in this. What federal "crimes" have been committed? If there are "infractions" then let the NCAA deal with it with whatever resources they have, although we know how that usually goes.

Just curious really and don't see where the FBI is needed.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I would think because it's fraud, because college sports is a $ billions industry, because it's across state lines, and because people gamble on it. Maybe also because the NCAA is toothless. Bleeds over into professional sports.

I read somewhere about the potential for "federal corruption charges", so I guess there are some teeth in there somewhere.

But I haven't read the FBI notes, either (yet).

Yeah. This has potential to hit the triforce of: fraud, tax evasion, and money laundering.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

That makes a lot of sense.

That's what always happens with the undeclared payments in corruption cases.

It's a RICO case. Without having read the FBI's actual filings, it's pretty plain you have bribery/corruption, tax evasion, fraud, and criminal conspiracy to commit the above. Probably some other possible charges as well. All of this occurred across state lines. That's why the Fibbies are involved.

People keep thinking of it in terms of recruiting violations, but those violations are, more importantly, crimes. We will see federal, state, and NCAA investigations and sanctions before this is over.

We will see federal, state, and NCAA investigations and sanctions before this is over.

FTFY.

Bribery
Bribery and Fraud
Bribery and Fraud and Conspiracy
Bribery and Fraud and Conspiracy and Money Laundering
Bribery and Fraud and Conspiracy and Money Laundering and Tax Evasion

The FBI is involved because these crimes are felonies and there are federal laws against them.

thanks all for the quick explanations

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

It's tax payer fraud. Federal crime.

We put the K in Kwality

Diamond Stone, at the time a freshman at Maryland, received $14,303, according to the documents.

So it appears that at least one Terp was involved.

That's pretty cheap for a diamond that size.

It was just a down payment.

Stage name?

___

-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

Good thing they're going straight after the big dogs though! The rich boosters and companies that actually supplied the money and initiated any bribery. Not the kids and families often from poor backgrounds who have never seen that kind of money before, and doesnt make any sense for them not to accept. Or the schools themselves and team that just happened to be the venue and platform for the shady transactions.

Oh wait....

I suppose they'll go after the people who actually broke laws and rules.

How do you get the big dogs? Go after the little dogs who can't afford to go to a "Federal Pound-you-in-the-ass Prison." They'll name names.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Leg for the Office Space reference.

...Not the kids and families often from poor backgrounds who have never seen that kind of money before, and doesnt make any sense for them not to accept

I have a little problem with this line of thinking. If the allegations of these payments are true, I can't imagine why a team would risk big time trouble for their program(s) to just offer a kid or his family some money out of thin air just because. I tend to believe at least some of these kids are shopping around for the highest bidder. (I'm neither condoning nor disapproving this behavior, just laying out the logic.)

Leonard. Duh.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

I don't see Arizona mentioned in this thread. Is the story I read this weekend about Arizona's coach being recorded on a wiretap discussing a 6-figure payment to Ayton part of this investigation, or is that completely separate?

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The guy he was talking to in the wiretap recording works for the ASM group, so it is related... but I think the info was released separately.

.

.

#extendbronco

Related question - is the ASM group the main target of the investigation, or is the greater 'college basketball system' (NCAA/coaches/players/agents) the main target, with the ASM group being one piece of the overall investigation?

Twitter me

Interesting. Thanks for digging that up.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)