Former Virginia Tech football player Mook Reynolds charged with felony

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Well, damn. Even so, wish nothing but the best for the kid. A mistake he'll surely learn from and move on from.

Also this is sure to spill into a political debate, so I probably won't return to this particular thread.

Legalize it.

Pour some Beer on it

Might I direct you to this line from the Community Guidelines

Don't discuss politics or religion.

It's Time to go to Work

At what point does it stop being political and start being common sense?

Not everyone is going to agree that it's common sense. It's a hot button political topic right now that people are split on. So... Probably best to not go there if we are trying to avoid politics.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I suppose that's fair. I guess I just haven't come across anyone in a long time who doesn't think it's common sense. Other than my grandma but she doesn't count.

Grandma doesn't count? Cold.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

Because people don't agree what "common sense" is. That's what politics IS.

To be fair it does seem like it's inevitable that it becomes legal in all states. But that doesn't mean it's not politics.

I agree that at the core of it, it is politics. I was just saying I didn't think it was controversial enough to spiral out of control into a big political argument (which I think is the point of that community guideline). I assumed there wouldn't be anybody opposing the original 'legalize it' comment. Which was dumb of me because I've seen people argue much more ridiculous things on this site.

It is.

When the suggestion is to use a government process to change a specific social policy, I'm pretty sure that constitutes politics.

Chem PhD '16

When it's not a legal matter that we disagree about

Recruit Prosim

One can argue that it's political. One can argue that it's common sense. However, no one can argue the fact that it is currently illegal in the the state of VA, and having enough of it constitutes felony charges.

20 year old boys with NFL aspirations ought to know better. Period. Good luck, Mook. Hope you can get this turned around. We've all had to learn at some time or another that all choices have consequences.

Leonard. Duh.

Mannn..if it was legalized throughout the United states the crime rate would be so much lower, soooooo much lower.

Hokie Love!

...but Dorito and Funion theft would be at all time HIGH!

We put the K in Kwality

Even if weed was legal to use, unregulated distribution would still be a felony, right?

Probably something very akin current bootlegging laws. Double whammy of tax evasion and distributing a controlled substance without a license.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

There's little to no reason to sell something consumable that people can buy in a store. It would become a very small problem under legalization.

Outside its night time, but inside its LeDay

I'd be 100% on the same page if this was just possession, but you're missing the distribution part. Even in Oregon/Colorado/California, you can't just sell pot out of your car, just like you can't make and sell booze without a liquor license.

Edit: I'll wait until more details come out, assuming the Mr. Reynold's comments below are true, it seems Mook might be the victim here.

Twitter me

Intent to distribute is just an amount in VA which is half an oz, which isn't all that much. In CO you can walk in a store and buy that and legally carry it around all day.

In CO you can walk in a store and buy that and legally carry it around all day.

That's nice, but it's still utterly meaningless when you are in Virginia and any amount of weed is illegal in Virginia.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Yes its utterly meaningless when you take it out of context of who I was replying to.

Even in Oregon/Colorado/California, you can't just sell pot out of your car

My response to that is that those states don't typically have laws that label you as a dealer for having a specific amount so his comparison is irrelevant.

I'm well aware that this took place in Virginia and Colorado laws don't apply.

I guess we're going to see Mook on Last Chance U.

My money is on Marshall. Just like Reavis, just like Beckett.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Since he's a senior, it makes no sense to go to Marshall. My guess is he'll end up at a MEAC school. NCAT maybe. Play right away and go to the draft.

Always choose joy.

Good point. I suppose he wouldn't be a grad transfer either.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Not going to make this a race deal. But the justice system sucks, it really does. The cops can assume shit and it heightens the offense. Just because somebody has a scale on them and over 20 grams doesn't mean they are selling marijuana. Now, if he were to be caught selling marijuana by selling to an undercover officer or something then charge it. Our justice system is completely corrupted. I'm all for ya Mook! Lawyer up and FIGHT IT!

Hokie Love!

Pretty sure the amount and possession of a scale defines the charges in this case, not an assumption by the cops. Possessing over an ounce in Virginia is auto considered "intent to distribute" and is a felony charge by default.

Possessing over an ounce in Virginia is auto considered "intent to distribute" and is a felony charge by default.

It's actually over half an ounce. aka 14 grams

Ah that's right, appreciate the clarification!

I'll leave it at this: I've possessed 14 grams of marijuana a few times in my life, and I sure as hell didn't plan to distribute it. I'd intentionally go out of my way to keep people from knowing I had it specifically so I wouldn't have to distribute it...

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Sharing is caring, dude...

Shame on you.

Leonard. Duh.

This is usually said by people that spend of lot time being shared with and not much time doing the sharing.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Exactly what I was thinking of.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

You are right, the fact the amount and possession of scales was what is found. But the presumption occurs before the search begins and depends on how the arrest occured. For instance, if the arrest occurred during a routine traffic stop, what presumption did the cop make to further search of that car? Dont know how the arrest happened here, but the arrest could have arisen due to a bias or prejudice.

🦃 🦃 🦃

Why would we make that assumption?

For instance, if the arrest occurred during a routine traffic stop, what presumption did the cop make to further search of that car?

Maybe this was the traffic stop...

Leonard. Duh.

Presumption? I don't think so... Here's how an arrest typically goes:

1. Pull over car for whatever reason. Pretextual stops are legal and important to investigate all manner of crime. McVeigh was stopped for expired tags I believe.

2. Officer smells marijuana, because it reeks.

3. Possession is a crime, plain smell is probable cause, and the courts allow vehicle searches when probable cause exists without warrants in most cases.

4. Search commences, weed is found. Cops are pretty good judges of weight, and it looks like more than a half ounce.

5. Vehicle operator or passenger is found to have scales, lots of money, baggies, etc. Indicating he wasn't about to smoke it all himself.

6. Felony arrest, courts decide whether it's simple possession, a misdemeanor, or stays the felony possession with intent to distribute.

If it's a bunch of weed you just bought for spring break, and the cop may give you a break, but that'd be a very generous cop.

Point is, the decision is made step by step in almost every case, like 99.9%. probably the majority of marijuana arrests are made at night, when is basically impossible to know who's driving a car, or the color of their skin, until you are standing at the driver's window talking to them, smelling the weed.

Cops are pretty good judges of weight

And even if they're not, the accused had the forethought to provide them with a scale, so...

/sssssmh

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

- "Just because somebody has a scale on them and over 20 grams"

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Right? this phrase just cancels out everything else in the post hahaha

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Weed is illegal. Full stop.

Until that law changes in Virginia, you don't get to take the moral high ground when you get caught.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Exactly.

Do stupid things, win stupid prizes.

Kudos for VT and Fuente doing the right thing here. I'm sure Frank is as sad about this as we all are, but proud that his legacy of doing things the right way is still going strong.

On top of it, if I recall correctly, being charged with a felony is immediate dismissal from the team even if you're later acquitted.

So guilty even if proven innocent or not guilty

Recruit Prosim

Per the 'CAP' which has been VTAD policy for 20+ years...

- Being charged with a felony is automatic suspension from the team.
- Being convicted of a felony is automatic dismissal from the team.

Sounds like Mook was already in a 2nd chance kind of situation so there was less slack.

policy link:
http://www.policies.vt.edu/1035.pdf

I won't argue that our justice system isn't without many issues. But when they are following the letter of a clear law, I think the blame doesn't fall in the least on them.

If you don't like the law, you can work to have the law changed, or you can break it and run the risk of facing a fairly slam dunk conviction case.

police and prosecutors actually have a lot of discretion on what to charge someone with. It happens all the time.. someone gets charged with a non-violent felony, but takes a plea deal for a similar, but misdemeanor, charge.

Not to get too technical but I had a misdemeanor, leaving the traffic stop, go to a felony charge by the first court date. By the end of it all there is no record of all this happening now. There is discretion at all levels.

Bruh...this is wrong on multiple levels lol.

It may have been stupid but at least this comment didn't go where I thought it was gonna go when it started with "not going to make this a race deal"

LOLOLOLOL... "Just beacuse someone has a scale on them and a bunch of Pot, doesn't mean they are selling it".. lolololololol. Yeah just because this girl with a short skirt, needle marks, no bra on walking bowlegged coming out of an hourly room, doesn't mean she is a prostitute either.. nahhhhh

Yeah just because this girl with a short skirt, needle marks, no bra on walking bowlegged coming out of an hourly room, doesn't mean he is a prostitute either

did you just undermine your entire argument with one typo? or might things sometimes not be as they appear circumstantially?

Chem PhD '16

or he's been to Bangkok

where it might stand that sometimes things aren't as they appear circumstantially?

Chem PhD '16

where it might stand that sometimes things aren't as they appear circumstantially circumcisionaly?

FTFY

Plenty of people have scales to make sure they aren't getting ripped off when they buy.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

It all else fails I think that's a solid affirmative defense.

LOL.. awesome.

Why do you feel the need to hate on the two most universally loved Buds?

Perhaps but No chance this argument prevails where it's illegal

That argument may work in a state where weed is legal... But not in Virginia

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

This was all a big misunderstanding. He was just preparing for the FSU game.

In order to be able to gameplan for Deandre Francois, someone had to stand in for him on the scout team. Mook volunteered and...well..you get it

The Dude Abides

Logged in specifically to upvote this.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Whether or not weed should be legal and whether or not Mook had intent to distribute, a senior on the team needs to be a leader on and off the field. We've had too many good players miss games (and now get booted from the team) because of drug charges.

It's just kind of crazy, it's such a weird standard these teams have to deal with.

I'll be clear I have zero context to the actual case but just making an observation for NFL and college football in the current situation.

If this happens in Colorado Mook is an entrepreneur farmers market selling crops, but since it's in Virginia he is a felon.

Wherever you stand you have to admit it's a weird dynamic today for these programs.

pretty sure it's still against NCAA rules, so a player at Colorado - Boulder could still get suspended for failing a drug test. Not 100% certain, but that is my understanding.

not to mention the Federal laws against MJ still apply...

My guess is that, unless he was caught with a trash bag of weed, any decent lawyer can get this knocked down to a misdemeanor charge. Would this allow the possibility of his return to the team? Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about a weed charge, and I'd like to see him back on the team.

Side note: how hard is it for Virginia Tech to just state that he was kicked off the team because of an arrest on their original statement? The lack of candor by college sports programs pisses me off, and that's the main reason I would never donate any money to such an non-transparent business (other than buying merchandise and paying my cable fees).

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

He was dismissed from the team for breaking team rules.

I've NEVER seen a team go back on a dismissal. That's a permanent step. I think he was already skating on thin ice.

I believe when I read it, he was dismissed for violating Athletic Department Policy. I took that to mean it was outside of team jurisdiction anyway.

Because it's inappropriate for them to state such a reason. You have no need to know why and VT has no obligation to tell you the specifics.

Are you kidding me? It's inappropriate? He was arrested and charged with a felony, it's not exactly a private matter. Just have the fucking balls to say "he was kicked off the team because he was arrested." Pretty damn simple.

This crap reminds me of about 20 years ago, when they wouldn't even say who a penalty was on (they would say, "holding on the offense"), like these guys are 8-year-olds. He's an adult, and a public figure. And it's a business. Almost like real life.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

They are restricted by law not to release information. All they can say is he was dismissed.

Andy Bitter is getting dragged on Twitter by some current players right now for reporting this. Kinda odd and disappointing. I wonder if Fuente will have to sit down with the team and explain what a reporter is to them.

Edited for Hokie Fireman

Recruit Prosim

Counterpoint: No, I don't.

This was the thing I laughed hardest at today. And I'm sick, so that means something.

via GIPHY

Get Angry, Bud!

Between jobs Andy is best Andy.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

+69

Andy has shown a lot of professionalism and I do not understand the players calling him out for doing his job. This is public information.

You make a convincing argument.

Andy Bitter anagrams to Tidy Banter, of which we have here a great example.

Chem PhD '16

Edited this comment for the sake of the community

Recruit Prosim

Editing. Didn't need to be so judgy. Sorry TJB.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

I'm sorry. You're sorry. It's all good.

Recruit Prosim

This kind of comment is inexcusable. Stop now.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Edited for who's sake?

I had numerous people say to stop posting so I edited my comments to not reflect poorly on the website and community. I 100% don't care about my legs. I do care about our school and it's players and that's why I sided with them over a the media.

Recruit Prosim

If you care about Virginia Tech you might want to not act like a degenerate when you have Hokie in your name. It taints people's perception of the university and of the fans/alumni.

It's Time to go to Work

Exactly. And instead of continuing to deny and defend yourself, you could man, or woman, up and admit your mistake and apologize. That would be right thing to do, if that's what you're interested in.

I don't think what I did was wrong and I refuse to apologize for my words. I do see how it affects the site so I am dropping it.

Recruit Prosim

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

FROM THE TOP RAIL

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

This comment went DOUBLE PLAID

Chem PhD '16

Comments that garner 200 legs should turn to Hokie Stone.

Who's with me?

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

Negative 100 should be blue and orange blurred out plaid.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Not plaid, blue and orange argyle or harlequin.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

I don't think Blue and Orange anything should ever grace this site, except where it is unavoidable.

Using /s is for cowards.

Community Justice Time! Do I need to drink for a repost of an idea that is on a thread from a year and a half ago? I'm not opposed to it. Just want some Judge Judy style action.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Just want some Judge Judy style action

as a general rule, it's probably somewhere on the internet if you look hard enough

Chem PhD '16

Depends. Does it get better with age?

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

Refraining from downvoting all Drake gifs is really tough sometimes.

Bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Live look at TJB

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Edited for the sake of the community

Recruit Prosim

I saw what you put originally. Suggesting he's an "@sshole," or that you want to put your boot there, makes you look like the @sshole. Grow up and move on.

I went back and uplegged every comment you edited - I never saw the originals. Good on you for changing them

Thanks man. I get my comments were controversial but some people are out for blood 😂 I changed them at like -3 and it's looks like 10-20 people have downlegged just to pile on I guess.

Recruit Prosim

Yea no, your shitty first comment is still up so bombs away.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Have a leg as a token of truce, but had people seen what you posted you'd be at -150 on all those as well. The comments weren't controversial, they were childish and inappropriate.

And let's give credit where credit is due that he edited them out regardless of his reasoning ("for the community's sake" and not "because I was childish and inappropriate"). As childish and inappropriate as the comments were (and they were indeed), it's generally best to let the community self-moderate (as we do). I don't know how much value the community derives from other commenters quoting the childish and inappropriate post such that the edited-out content lives on. If it deserves to die, and it dies, lets allow it to be and stay dead instead of continuing to litigate it.

Chem PhD '16

And to go beyond this, it's often difficult to admit wrong and then to apologize for it. It's also difficult to accept that apology and to forgive.
One party has done their part.
I'm not saying anyone should be reversing their downvotes; those were earned. But piling on an edited post is just as childish as the original post. You're not doing it because the edited post is a violation of guidelines. You're doing it out of spite.

He hasn't changed his post.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

he did not change the original one that is currently at -153, but he has edited several of his other childish and inappropriate comments

Edit: some people are silly

Chem PhD '16

And until that first post is edited he hasn't apologized or changed anything. I didn't downvote his other posts because I didn't see them. But it's clear his views haven't changed.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

But it's clear his views haven't changed.

Editing the post wouldn't mean that his views have changed.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

It would mean he saw the error of his comments on TKP. He hasn't seen that and now *cough* someone is downvoting him being called out on his shit.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

TBH that's why I left it up. Seemed like if I changed the original I would just be accused of doing it because of the votes. But I will change it ASAP if that's what people want.

Recruit Prosim

Honestly, his changing the original now leaves Bitter's plaid post with no context. He probably should've left it up, with a P.S. about his change of views.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

I thought the additional downvotes were for the final comment which was: "I don't think what I did was wrong and I refuse to apologize for my words."

@Gooble I see your point about quoting something that was erased. At the time, the post had not been removed, though the language had been edited to be less colorful. Had it been edited + deleted, I wouldn't have engaged. Still, point taken and I'll own that as feedback for me.

I found it quite entertaining that AB jumped in the mix after that one. Now that it's gone that subthread just doesn't have the same appeal to me anymore, sadly.

I didn't downvote as it is an opinion. It is a crappy opinion, but doesn't look like it violates the community guidelines to me.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Please realize everyone is different, and treat all posters with respect. Please don't ever force a moderator to use the phrase, "Jerk Alert", or make someone feel unwelcome.

What part of calling someone stupid for doing their job and saying they deserve to be reamed doesn't break the first paragraph of the guidelines?

Edit: Adding in from the Turkey Leg Section of the Guidelines...

Conversely, if someone flames, wages a personal attack or doesn't follow the community guidelines, then downvote.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I can see how it fits, but up until recently AB was not a poster and he didn't make a personal attack since AB didn't make the comment he was replying to. If the comment had been "Berman sucks and deserves to be reamed" it probably would have upvotes. This was a total pile on job

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Can't imagine this situation goes unaddressed by Fuente and company. It's a pretty bad look to go at a reporter for "digging up information" when 1) the information is available to the public 2) it's literally his job 3) he interjected nothing other than the facts.

So he was charged with possession and intent to sell, meaning he had at least half an ounce, right?Kinda crazy that you can drive to DC and get up to two ounces legally. And you're even allowed to give away up to an ounce to another person.

Still a dumb situation for Mook to put himself in... Cant wait for this off-season to end!

stick it in, stick it in, stick it in!

Correction, you can't get 2 oz. DC you are allowed to possess 2 oz, but nowhere is it legal to sell it yet. a lot of folks are finding loopholes like my neighbor did for his 420 party, but no legal selling for recreational use.

There are all kinds of rules associated with being a student athlete. When you sign on the dotted line you indicate you accept those rules. There are rules for academics and other behavior as well. A new law wasn't passed just to nail Mook or anyone else. The laws are on the books and they are public. I'm not saying that marijuana should or should not be illegal: That's the job of elected officials. In general when we sign onto something we are saying we accept all the rules or will suffer the consequences for violating those rules. Mook had plenty to gain by following the rules. He had to choose between enjoying marijuana or playing this year and getting drafted into what would have been a very lucrative NFL career. In some places those too things are not mutually exclusive. Where he plays they are. My first employer did not drug test and I took advantage of that and smoked weed on occasion. Eventually I moved on to jobs where that was not possible and I complied with those requirements. At any time that I decide I am not okay with that I can leave my job and go work in some place where the employer doesn't test and marijuana is legal. You can call it a poor choice or a great choice or any other kind of choice. It's simply a choice that is incompatible with the laws in Virginia and the code of conduct for student athletes at Virginia Tech. I hope Mook does whatever fulfills his life. I also hope that people lay off Andy Bitter for simply reporting the facts.

Man, didn't Prohibition teach anyone anything? Legislating "morality" is a losing proposition.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

What is legislated other than morality? Criminal law is all based on a common understanding of right and wrong.

The debate is always over whose morality to use, or where that line is drawn. One person's rights end where someone else's begin.

There are plenty of things dictated by legislation that have nothing to do with morals - traffic laws, tax law, administrative laws, etc. Moral law is probably more of the church's domain than the government's.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

I would suggest that all of those things have to do with morals in some way or another. Your rights vs someone else's right vs the rights of the collective. It's all made possible by our common sense of justice.

Is murder only the domain of the church? Why should you have to pay taxes for services you don't use?

All of it comes down to our common agreement on how to live as a society, as we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.

Now we're getting into politics AND religion. Time to pump the brakes, I think.

OK. Fair enough.

Mods be like: 'wait, no stop...'

Hokie fan | W&M grad

The same pattern of arguments always comes up when a player is suspended, dismissed, or in any way involved with drugs. Before I opened the thread for the first time, I knew what the first few comments would be. I just have to figure out how long to let things play out before shutting them down.

That driver made it JUST in time!

Glad to know that my mom and dad endowed me with inalienable rights.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

We hold it to be self-evident, but it's Creator, not creators.

(so I updated the referenced post accordingly).

Guys, in another setting, I would love to jump in this discussion (I'm actually reading a book on John Locke right now, and let me tell you, I have some thoughts!), but this is clearly territory into which the community guidelines forbids us to go; please, let's end the discussion here.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Sorry, wasn't trying to continue the discussion, but to clarify and inject a little humor.

But you're right, and I will make that my last comment on this thread.

To clarify, i was referencing my creator(s)....my mother and my father. Simple as that....and that has absolutely nothing to do with religion or politics. They created me. It says so on my birth certificate. Therefore i have not crossed any community guidelines by discussing this fact.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

It is possible I misread the exchange...seeing discussions of "rights" and "Creator(s)" and such just set me a little bit on edge. I love ya'll, go Hokies.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Its all good pete.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

Not resurrecting the meat of this conversation, but could you share what that book is? I enjoyed studying Locke's works in college, and I'm always looking for book recommendations.

The book is called "Locke" by Edward Fesser. Just be forewarned, it's written from a very Catholic/Aristotelian perspective and is actually mostly critical of Locke's philosophy. The main thrusts basically follow the recent Deneen-ian critiques of classical liberalism, if you're familiar with that. I imagine a lot of readers would raise some objections, but I think the debate is extremely interesting and the tensions explored are useful to understand.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

This sounds very interesting indeed. Need some reading for the boat anyway. Thanks!

Edit: Bit removed from dedicated political theory study, so I needed to google the Deneen character you referenced. Holy hell, now I have to read this book, if only to be able to more articulately defend natural law theory and liberalism.

If you don't think many (or most) traffic laws, tax laws, administrative laws don't have anything to do with morals and incentivizing or dis-incentivizing certain behavior/activities, I've got some Arizona oceanside property to sell you.

you're splitting hairs. Traffic laws are a type of morality. Taking turns = morality based behavior = traffic laws that require taking turns (e.g. stop lights) = enforcing morality

Sure some of the basics are the roughly the same everywhere, but different US jurisdictions have differing laws and other countries have many quite different traffic laws - particularly Europe.

How can that be when driving is driving? One man's saftety is another man's nanny-ism. Morals.

Almost every tax is driven by morals. Few, if any, taxes are driven purely by economics.

Exactly, whose to use was my point, where that line is drawn and maybe more importantly, why.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

That, I think, is a fair point.

Pay the players.

EDIT: funny how people bitch about downvotes when it happens to them but when it happens to others they don't care.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Or else they'll (ALLEGEDLY) sell illegal substances? I think there's a place for that debate but not when it involves someone that, at least at this point, knowingly possessed and illegal substance with the intent to distribute (based purely on the code and charge. I don't know what happened and I'm not purporting to). Regardless, legalizing marijuana across the board doesn't prevent private or public business, schools, or universities from penalizing people for using it.

Lol dude I didn't say anything about legalizing it.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

I know. That wasn't directed towards your comment but the thread in general.

So are we gonna pay women's sports the same amount to avoid Title IX issues?

Your edit is spot on. There's always a lecture in other threads that downvotes are only for violation of site rules. Unless those same people disagree with you, then downvote away.

Unless those same people disagree with you, then downvote away.

Bold assertion. Who's to say that's the same group of people?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I don't see any lectures, do you?

Lay off the weeeeeduh

Mook was given a ride by a youngman that had weed in his posssession. He also allegedly was driving a stolen car and speeding. The cops pulled the car over sea hed it and found weed in the car. The driver told the officers that the other two occupants neither knew about the weed or had it. The officers let one person go and charged Mook and the driver. I think it may of had something to do with the celabratory mood they were in when they found out Mook was in the car. Mook stayed at the station for nearly 7 hours before finding out he would be charged. Funny but know one received a speeding or stolen car charge! I dont know what you feel about the justice system but I can tell you that I find it odd when two people are charged with possession when the person whos weed it was clearly tell it to the officer. This is another Beckett case but sadly kids have their lives and dreams interrupted by suspect charges! Nothing new to me, I see it all the time. Mook will be fine because of his faith. Plans change but dreams dont. We will miss Hokie Nation and will always be HOKIES!!! #guiltyuntilproveninnocent

Mr. Reynolds you and your family have been great supporters of the team. The one time I got talk to Mook last year at picture day he was great.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I hate that for Mook. Remain positive! Thanks for everything.

Best of luck to Mook in his future endeavors!!

"Give me a fu¢king beer", Anonymous Genius

Thanx for clearing that up! I assumed that was the deal. A lot of people on here see what they read and automatically place judgment. Only God can judge. Like I said in the comment earlier I'm rooting for him. Been a victim of the system before. All police prosecutions aren't true for the most part. They should have to prove the intent to distribute part. Like did you see them sell?Who did they sell to? How much was it that they sold? Ect.

Hokie Love!

It's Time to go to Work

why is this downvoted?

All police prosecutions aren't true for the most part.

I know the intent behind the message but saying ALL police prosecutions aren't true is a huge step in the wrong direction. I support Mook, I think he was give a raw deal here, but blanketing all police prosecutions as false is full stop wrong.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

All police prosecutions aren't true for the most part.

Police don't prosecute crimes.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

They do in New Zealand.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Yeah I see the hyperbole but I guess I was inferring that he meant that there is bias in arrests. People need to be able to voice their opinion though, even if it's wrong. From what he wrote it may be his own experience that has skewed his perception, which is not uncommon especially when dealing with crime. I can give him the benefit of the doubt that he's frustrated personally.

Overall, it's not inflammatory, it's opinionated. wrongly so sure but opinions aren't meant to be downvoted which is why I asked.

I am with you. I didn't downvote, but I also wasn't going to upvote. I believe in the police for vast majority do their job without bias to their best ability. Unfortunately bad incidents, accidents or occasional bias gets far more media exposure than the good work they do.

agree mostly. I have a lot of friends and family scattered around various levels of the criminal justice system and the bad apples give far too much taint. At the same time though, the bad apples tend to do extremely bad things that sometimes gets washed away for dubious reasons. Both sides have their valid reasons for their frustration.

Police just enforce the law. The law on the books as written, is possession over 0.5 oz is possession with intent. The cops don't have to prove anything. It apparently was a fact that the driver had the weed. At that point, in the driver's case, it's up to the court to decide his fate depending on how good his lawyer is.

Now, I don't have a full understanding of why Mook would be charged if the driver owned up to sole possession. I can speculate that maybe the police in P5 college towns have a lot of experience with athlete stars riding with a fall guy to take the hit when 5-0 shows up. In those cases, they just roll everybody up, grill them for awhile, and hope somebody gives somebody up. IF everybody sticks to their stories, I can't imagine how Mook is convicted of this... but it is going to turn out unfortunately for him anyway with regards to the team.

My bottom line opinion on this, is it comes down to choices. Even assuming that Mook is in the middle of a raw deal, he could have made a better choice than to be with THIS dude, in THIS car at 4 am. Nobody's ever been a "victim of the system" at home in bed, volunteering for a charity, or studying in the library.

Mook, learn from this, turn it around and make it your power. Then use it to teach some other young fellows who may be vulnerable in the future. They're probably going to listen to you a lot better than an old coot like me.

Leonard. Duh.

Nobody's ever been a "victim of the system" at home in bed, volunteering for a charity, or studying in the library.

(Edited based on comment below.)
(Edited again, due to VAtoSC's comment.)

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

Nobody's ever been a "victim of the system" at home in bed, volunteering for a charity, or studying in the library.

That's a nice sentiment, but it's not true. Case in point - just recently a sorority who were doing volunteer roadside cleanup in Pennsylvania were hassled by the police.

This reminded me of the girl in Charlottesville who got arrested by over zealous ABC agents for buying La Croix. What a mess that was.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I know her. They also used batons to bust her windows out after they ran up on her in undercover clothing and she understandably ran to her car out of fear (being that she's a female on her own in a college town and since you don't expect to be run up on by an undercover swat team for buying bottled water)

She sued the hell out of them and the state for $40 million and before it could go to court the state settled for $215,000 and a letter explaining her wrongful arrest. Pretty sickening behavior from those agents.

215k? I wouldn't have settled for less than a couple million. Not for what they did to her for no reason whatsoever.

Seriously. I don't know if there is a settlement rule to go by but I feel like if you sue for $40 Mil you got a terrible deal at a $215k settlement.

a $215k settlement.

...but did she get a structured settlement? Someone should find out in case she needs cash now.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

God Damnit, just when I got that shit out of my head. Take a leg.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Sorry Fud. On the bright side tomorrow is

Image result for its friday song gif

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Danny Coale Caught That Ball!!!

Virginia caps punitive damages at $350K. Even if a jury returns a verdict in excess of that, the code requires a judge to reduce it back to the maximum. Compensatory damages are a different animal. I think it can also get a murky if you're suing state agents that are "acting within the scope of their employment".

Realistically, where was that $40 million going to come from? The state certainly doesn't have that kind of money. To get anywhere close to it, they would have to raise taxes and cut services.

Even if she was suing the agents directly, their paycheck comes from the state, so they're not making anywhere close to $40 million over the course of their lives.

I get exactly what you're saying, but I feel like it's not as much as a hard number, as it is representative of what the girl experienced because she walked out of a store with water.

$215 K for getting arrested?

I'd say she was fairly compensated.

Tell me about it. I'm about to get a case of La Croix and head up to the ABC parking lot in Hooville.

Of course, I need to somehow find a way to look underage first.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Since you linked it....

"Other agents did not join the incident until the subject refused to cooperate," the ABC said in a statement. "Rather than comply with the officers' requests, the subject drove off, striking two officers. She was not arrested for possessing bottled water, but for running from police and striking two of them with a vehicle."

Seems like a really poorly thought out operation. I can't say I'd act too much differently. They crashed on a girl with water with not a single uniformed officer. Obviously, I wasn't there but I feel like she should have been confronted far before he getting to her vehicle. It would have been much easier to identify themselves as law enforcement.

I'm not defending either side, but from the limited information that came out, it does look like everyone involved did something wrong.

Beyond that, it's not even worth trying to play Monday morning quarterback on a situation like this, because there's a lot going on in a short amount of time.

I think part of the goal is also to send a message. The guilty party (ABC cops) should be punished harshly. A message should be sent to their peers and higher ups that this behavior will not be tolerated.

Side note - who are these people who actually want to become ABC cops? are they people who failed out of the police academy? Are they ABC store owners who moonlight on the weekends? Are they people who think that consuming alcohol is immoral (until you hit 21, of course)?

Twitter me

Most of the ABC agents I know are former troopers or deputies who wanted to get away from the usual rigors of routine policework.

Yeah I think that's exactly right. Also lawyers know that the bigger the number the more publicity they are likely to attract, which obviously worked. If you're hoping for a settlement to begin with them publicity is how you put pressure on government officials (such as the AG, who decided settling was in the state's interest).

I'm not sure more money from the ginormous lawsuits really sends a bigger message, and even if you think it does, I'd support putting the excess in a money to help future victims, not to enrich lawyers/lawsuit-lottery victims.

You want to send a message to ABC cops (or their management), you fire them or dock their pay/retirement.

But what message do you send here? It was a botched effort, but the girl freaked out and tried to run from the cops. The real correction would be to have uniformed cops/properly identified ones, and don't send a swat team/battering ram when a simple marked car with flashing lights would work.

Yea I get what you're saying. Honestly, I think 'ABC cops' are unnecessary, I'd love to them disbanded, and regular cops take their spot (if the local community believe it to be necessary).

Twitter me

No...since ABC is controlled by the state, getting rid of the ABC agents would just mean that those responsibilities would be absorbed by the state police, who are already understaffed and overworked. Best case scenario, it would just become another department or specialty within VSP, and would be staffed by those agents you just removed from ABC. So, ultimately, no matter how you try to reshuffle the deck, it's still going to be the same people doing the same things.

The point I'm getting at is, why should there be a group of people dedicated to policing alcohol consumption, rather than have one body that enforces all laws for a given community/area? Why do we need undercover cops wandering through parking lots trying to find underage kids drinking? Why can't they just be regular, uniformed cops, who focus only on arresting people who are being unruly?

EDIT: I'd be fine about it if ABC cops only targeted unruly people. I just find their job in general (going undercover and targeting anyone who looks underage to be at best unethical, at worse an abuse of power. That's really my point.

Twitter me

They do much much more than that.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Why does a football team need a specific player to be a quarterback, or a kicker, or a wide receiver? Why can't they all just be "athletes" that can play any position?

It should come out of the police pension fund. Maybe if it hits them in the wallet, the bad ones will stop thinking they're above the law and the good ones will stop covering g for the bad.

I've heard that 'good cops covering up for the bad' thrown around like it happens everywhere, all the time, but haven't seen many examples of it. I'm not gonna lose my job or catch a charge covering for a crook, cop or not, and I can confidently say that's the view of pretty much every cop out there.

But it's easy to drop that line, cuz hey that's what always happens on TV shows and movies right?

There is no strictly defined "police pension fund". There is the Virginia Retirement Fund which covers all state agencies (including Virginia Tech), and a lot of local agencies. Law enforcement officers can get a small extra supplement on top of that, but I don't know if ABC qualifies for that.

Still, there's not $40 million lying around anywhere to piss away on a lawsuit or court settlement. Ultimately, you're just screwing over all of the other state and local employees who had nothing to do with the incident.

State police received a call from a motorist that some young ladies were fighting on the side of the interstate. As soon as they arrived the troopers cleared it up, and commended the ladies for their efforts.

Nobody was arrested on drug charges, or any other charge for that matter.

Not really a case in point, but let's roll with it. You're actually saying that you have pretty much the same chances of getting arrested on felony charges cleaning up roadside trash with your sorority as riding dirty with a big sack of weed at 4am?

Leonard. Duh.

Or the baby that got mutilated by a flash bang during a no-knock raid. Or the people that have been killed when there's a no-knock raid at the wrong house.

Right... how could we have forgotten about SWATting...

Nobody's ever been a "victim of the system" at home in bed, volunteering for a charity, or studying in the library.

That sounds like a terribly boring life to live.

Twitter me

That sounds like a terribly boring life to live.

Not if you enjoy curling up with a good book and [a vessel filled with your alcoholic beverage of choice].

(Just substitute a Kindle for the dead-tree book in the picture.)

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

It doesn't have to be. There are much smarter party choices a young person can make than being in a alleged stolen car at 4am with a bunch of weed. That's all I'm saying.

How about finding a place to bunker down after 12am and having a stay-put-party?

Leonard. Duh.

Here's what I've told both of my now adult sons. It is VERY rare that anything good happens after midnight outside of your own house.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

really? ... wow... A LOT of great things happened outside my house after midnight growing up

You may be the exception to the rule.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

I also grew up in a rural community in the middle of a desert with almost no violent crime, officers that knew your family, a judge that coached you growing up and one of the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation during my high school years. staying safe was more about carrying the more pleasurable kind of protection.

likely not what you meant

And thankfully, you were kept far away from my kids when they were growing up.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

I agree, but my line is 2 am. By then the party is either too drunk or only the scraps are left for picking up.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

No one is going home with you before midnight lol. Hell, in a lot of places no one shows up to the bars until 11/11:30.

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Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Total Dad comment

Twitter me

If you're not a knucklehead, it's actually VERY rare anything bad happens after midnight outside of your house. Perhaps less rare than inside your house, but still rare nonetheless.

The moral to the story would be...don't be a knucklehead before or after midnight, inside or outside of your house.

I'd also add don't hang around with knuckleheads, like someone who could potentially be driving a stolen car. I ended up getting a Class 1 misdemeanor during a summer break, because of a knucklehead. A long story I won't hash out on TKP. It ended up causing me some pain the next 3 years or college or so. I missed out some internships and some job offers come graduation.

I really hope Mook can land on his feet somewhere else and gets his shot at the NFL and eventually is able to look back on this as a learning experience.

That sucks. When I graduated high school, everyone was harping about hanging out with and associating with the right people...yada...etc. It wasn't until I became an adult that I realized how important it really was, even as far as 2nd hand associations. Luckily I am a dork who hangs out with nerds.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I'd like to think that another new day outside of my house is a good thing after midnight. If not, welp...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

THIS...A thousand times, this.

How I Met Your Mother had an entire episode dedicated to this...

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

HIMYM's 9th season was a prime example of the writers doing this...

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Much like Scrubs, they had to pull something out of a hat when the network was like "We're giving you another Season!" Granted, they had more time than Scrubs, and had already filmed the final moments a while back.

And they still found a way to royally fuck up the ending. Literally threw away years of character building in the last 10 minutes of the last show. And the kicker is that they filmed an alternate ending that didn't go in that direction and it's a much, much better way to wrap it up.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I hope for nothing but the best for Mook. Hokie Nation is still with you!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Excuse the typos. Its just stressful at the moment and proofreading went out the window....lol. Keep us in your prayers🙏❤️💯#Hokies4Life#6

Will do, once a Hokie, always a Hokie!

It was mentioned above and downvoted like crazy, but I'll say it again... The justice system is slanted in all kinds of ways that don't resemble justice at all, and certain segments of our society catch the brunt of that more than others.

Been a joy watching Mook the last couple of years! I'm prayerful he will land on his feet and be just fine.

Is it football season yet?

I was on a jury and the defendant was arrested for possession with intent. The cops found a scale and some joints in his home. The only evidence we were shown was a scale and a pipe. The state didn't bother to test what was in the pipe (allegedly mj) and they didn't take the joints from his house.

It didn't make a lot of sense but 3/4 of the jury was ready to convict because he looked guilty. So it is possible to be convicted with little to no evidence

Justice is only as good as the objectivity of the officers involved, and the ability of the jury to understand both the law and to determine the validity of the arguments in a given case.

We have a presumption of innocence, but we also have a built-in presumption that out of 12 people, a majority of them can sort through the B.S.

Unfortunately, we see headlines where juries are pretty fallible, all the time, both in criminal cases and in civil judgments. It's a flawed system, but it's the best we've got, and if they really get it wrong you can always appeal.

Mook is and always will be one of my favorite Hokies! Will pray for you all. I know he will continue the journey and accomplish his goal to play in the in the NFL someday. He seemed like a bright and determined individual.

Hokie Love!

Mr. Reynolds, TKP is beyond grateful for your presence, wit, posts as well as Mook's contributions both off & on the field. We understand that you're under zero obligaiton to share info & that there are other outlets you could frequent. In my heart, that makes it all the more special. I, for one, am so bummed & depressed by his departure & will continue to feel & notice it throughout the season. Should/when he lands on an NFL roster, I will purchase his jersey (provided it's not by the cow gals).

#FUENTEenFUEGO
Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Only the best wishes for Mook, you will always be a Hokie to me. If you made a mistake, may you learn from it and come out ahead in the end.

I understand people would prefer this kept a private matter, but a charge such as this is posted for general consumption by the court. Can anyone explain the anger directed at Andy Bitter?

.

.

#extendbronco

Mook and Trevon Hill both mentioned Bitter on twitter saying that he wasn't being fair in how he covered Mook's arrest. The whole situation is ridiculous honestly, Bitter did nothing outside of the realm of his job. If he didn't break the news (which is available to the public if you knew to look for it) then someone else would have. People who, for whatever reason, have an issue with Bitter's reporting are now using it as a platform to rail on him.

Catching up from vacation, this thread is pure gold. Some real animosity and swings in opinion. I must say, it is pretty tough to get kicked off a Virginia Tech football team...as a starter...on a defense with a lot of attrition.

I must say, it is pretty tough to get kicked off a Virginia Tech football team...as a starter...on a defense with a lot of attrition.

If a player is charged with a felony, they are dismissed from the team automatically. There is no consideration given the player's role or relative importance, or even the circumstances surrounding the felony charge, it's just what the policy is. Case in point, Dahman McKinnon was in a car accident his freshman year. He panicked and drove down the road a little ways and was calling his mom to ask what to do. He eventually did stop, but because he didn't stay at the scene of the accident, he was hit with a felony hit-and-run charge, and summarily dismissed from the team. Eventually, his case was heard by a judge, the circumstantial factors were weighed, his charges were reduced or dropped, and he was able to rejoin the team. The moral of the story is no matter who you are or how important you are to the team's success, getting kicked off is as easy as getting charged with a felony, and getting charged with a felony doesn't *necessarily* involve egregious or nefarious behavior.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

You are not correct. It is not the policy to be kicked off the team for a felony charge (see below). There are numerous examples of previous players in the past. Also, not all players are treated equal, either. Let's not dig into those. The point still remains, it's hard to get kicked off the football team.

Felony Charge
– Any student athlete arrested and charged with a felony, or with a crime involving gambling or
game fixing under Virginia law or any other jurisdictional equivalent, shall be suspended automatically, by the Director of Athletics, from practice and playing privileges until the charges are dropped, dismissed or otherwise resolved. The student-athlete may appeal this decision pursuant to the Appeals Procedure found in this Policy on Student - Athlete Conduct.

http://www.policies.vt.edu/1035.pdf

yes, suspended =/= kicked off the team

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Well, I stand corrected...I was definitely conflating suspension and dismissal.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Its a department policy regarding felony arrests, not a coaching decision. We don't need to dig back into the arrest itself, but the department had no choice, regardless of who it was.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

That is true, the department had no choice to respond. The minimum response is indefinite suspension, though, not dismissal. They had choice in the severity of response.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

This thread...

I know. More new comments and I keep thinking more details have come out. Silly me.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Time to kill the thread?

Is it football season yet?

That time is long overdue and I'm the one that started the thing!!!