OT: Is VT worth 160,000$ ?

Alright fellas here's the deal. I'm looking for a little advice and I thought you guys would probably be the best people to answer it.
I am currently a High school senior and deciding between colleges. I have loved VT all my life and would absolutely love to go there, my dad went there, and I go there every year for at least 3 football games and a few basketball games. I live in State College, PA so I don't get in-state tuition (Before you ask, no chance I will ever go to PSU) meaning that VT will cost at least 40K a year before scholarships
I am pursuing a career in sports journalism, so I have been in contact with Bill Roth for the past few months and it seems like he really wants me to go to VT
I am also looking at Waynesburg University, who also has a very good Sports Journalism department (headed by former pirates announcer Lanny Fratarre) and WU will almost certainly cost 9k or less a year (total not 9k less than VT). However the opportunities I will have at VT far outnumber WU's. At VT a new ACCNetwork studio is being built in the South Endzone at Lane, not to mention learning from some of the best names in sports along with an almost guaranteed job to cover sports full time after college, while at Waynesburg I might get stuck covering sports at rinky-dink stations in West Virginia or Ohio.
I like everything about VT except for the price, and I don't know how much that price will be. If its 40K a year, is VT worth it? What would be a good relative cost for an out-of-state student after scholarships? Some sites say 14K a year, and some say the full 40K, so it's really difficult to project.
also fun fact, for me to afford VT, everyone on TKP would have to give me $50.53, that's how much it is

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Is this even a question?

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I mean, yes, because I woud rather not be 140K in debt in the Sports Journalism field, that kinda seems like committing suicide

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I think you just answered your own question.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Well, your Uncle will always pay for school, but he's kinda demanding about what he wants in return.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Worked for me.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Me too

I'm not sure if the rules changed, but I remember some of my out of state friends lived off campus and because VA residents. I think you would have to pay out of state rates for a year but then you'd get in-state tuition. Maybe there is someone on here with more recent knowledge since this was all from the early 2000s when you were being born and in diapers.

Shit, now I feel old.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

I think that can apply for graduate students, not sure about undergrad.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

It's undergrad too, but it's more complicated than just living in state:

https://registrar.vt.edu/academic-records-multi-brief/index.html

It can be done but basically you can't be a dependent on your parent's taxes.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Pretty sure you have to have more than 1 year residence before you can be in-state.

Yeah it's like 1 3/4 years

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I tried this while I was in school, in the early 2000s. Lived off campus starting my RS-Sophomore year, stayed in Virginia over the summers, got a Virginia driver's license, registered my car in Virginia, had a job during the summer and paid Virginia taxes, applied to be in-state and was rejected because "you have to move to Virginia for non-educational purposes". I think the only way to do it is if you take a year off of school and work a full-time job while living in Virginia.

I came to VT from PA as well and managed to get in-state tuition; it definitely wasn't easy though.

I was on my own paying for college and after my sophomore year, it was definitely going to be a bit too much to continue forward with the amount of student loans required. I had already gotten a Virginia driver's license and changed my voter registration. I took the year after sophomore year off and got a job in Blacksburg and continued to pay taxes, reside in VA, etc. It's also important to note that you must file taxes independently- meaning your parents can't claim you as a dependent on their taxes. I applied for in-state tuition in the early May-ish timeframe. I had to write a few statements to the office that handles that process (about intentions to stay in Virginia post graduation and the reasoning for my request) and provide bank records, parent's tax information, my own tax information, driver's license, voter registration, utility bills, and rental paperwork (perhaps more, but long story short it was a lot). The process itself took a while with a lot of communication with the office handling the request, but around July they approved it.

It certainly helped me out with being able to continue at Tech and I honestly would not have been prudent to finish my last few years without it. It's not an easy process (by design, I would assume) but it absolutely can be done.

Side note- I was in the Comm Department for both undergrad and grad school, so if you have any questions about the in-state process or the department, feel free to reach out.

I was out of state my freshman year, and legally moved to VA during that year. From my experience TECH will never give you in state if you started out of state unless you take a year off to work full time.

VT is worth it, yes. Can you afford it is a completely different matter. School loans are hard enough with in state tuition. If you have the money to pay for it and that is what you want, then go for it. If you don't have the money for it and your heart is set on it, then go there and bust your ass and be prepared to live with the decision for a long time. As long as you don't piss your time away there, then in the end you will be just fine.

If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous! With treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid...

take a year off, move to blacksburg and work. Make some money, establish residency, pay in state tuition...profit. While you can save money doing the whole community college and transfer bit, I found that all my friends who did that felt they missed out on the four year experience. Much better to start it a little late than cut it short.

Also, if your parents are in a place where they can swing it, have them buy a 3 bedroom condo and rent out the other two rooms throughout your time in Blacksburg to offset expenses. Not every family is there. I know mine weren't by the time I went to college, BUT they totally were when my oldest sibling went down to Tech in 1994. They would have saved thousands and thousands if they'd pulled the trigger then (4/5 of us went to Tech).

Also, fun story, I went to school with a girl from Pittsburgh. She told me out of state (at the time) was cheaper than in state at PSU. Probably not the case anymore.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Speaking as someone how worked in the sports journalism field and still works in sports communication, it's about connections and that's it. You could have the best professor in the world. They could teach you all the little rules and how to write and craft a lede and build a rundown, but at the end of the day, it's who you know in this field and what opportunities you have on campus. ACC Network is HUGE for VT as a program. Bill Roth, I assume, knows just about everyone. Earn his trust and work your butt off for him, and opportunities will come up.

The day-to-day class work in journalism doesn't matter squat. It's all about reps in the field and connections.

**this is from someone who took out 40k to go to graduate school for the hands on experience and connections that landed a dream job right out of college that led to an even dreamier job. Yes...the money is worth it if you apply yourself properly.

Always choose joy.

If you are down to the 2 options described (WU vs VT)...then YES...VT is absolutely worth the extra 9k per year!!!!

"Pie is the American synonym of prosperity, and its varying contents the calendar of changing seasons. Pie is the food of the heroic. No pie-eating people can be permanently vanquished."

But is VT worth the extra 31K per year?

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

reading comprehension will get after ya.

No, it's not worth the 31K a year. I love Tech, but even in retrospect, if I was out of state, it wouldn't have been worth it. That said, I'm glad my wife didn't agree because she was out of state. But then again, I had to pay off all her loans and that sucked. Other friends are buying houses, I'm paying off someone else's loans. And also (really not bitter, I swear) she got her degree in psychology from which she has earned exactly $0. So, yeah, from a financial standpoint it was a really bad decision to go to Tech for her. Still glad she did it, but people make some dumb decisions about colleges.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

No, absolutely not.

What about Syracuse or NW? Seem to be leaders in your field.

Both Private and both are more expensive than Tech fwiw.

Always choose joy.

If I'm paying that much, I would need the contacts you get from SU and NW.

In that field, those are the Harvard/Yale's, right?

Depends what you're going for as far as journalism is concerned. News/politics-for sure. Sports, going to a school with major brands and followings and success is actually quite beneficial.

But your point is correct, NW and Syracuse will have more potential for connections and networking, especially across disciplines; however you just need one connection and Bill Roth is an amazing connection if you're going to get into sports.

Always choose joy.

Well, who is paying? You parents or you via student loans? Maybe do some math and assume you land a job after graduation that'll pay $xxK/year and think about how long it will take you to pay off student loans with that salary and all other expected living costs.

A lot of people in my generation have delayed starting families because of student loan debt. That is unfortunate. Some have no problem with that, others regret it, but it is a big and relevant question that you ask.

No easy answers, but I'm certain that no whether you choose WU, VT, or somewhere else, you'll make the most of it and be successful.

I will say, if you were just basing the decision of the classes and program itself and the paper degree; then WU hands down. The fact that you see yourself pursuing the many opportunities that VT can offer, then a strong case for VT! Also consider if any of the jobs you could work while in school could help pay the tuition while also giving you relevant work experience. That combo is hard for most in college.

Good luck!

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

Hard to give you definite advice since you don't know how much it would actually cost. I'm assuming application deadlines haven't passed.

I would apply to more schools (and visit PSU and see if still feel that way).

If you are dead-set on VT, go to Community College for 2 years and then transfer in. That should cut your loans in half at least.

I don't know what journalists make, but take it from someone who did not give enough thought to law school debt, your biggest priority should be to minimize your student loans.

I am in the same boat and I am seriously considering sports journalism. How did you get in contact with these guys, because I would love to speak with them about it.

I don't know what a Hokie is but God is one of them (excluding JMU/ODU)- Lee Corso

Bill Roth had an AMA on here about a year ago and I asked him a question about this and he told me to email him, here's his email if you want to go and give it a shot- billroth@vt.edu

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

awesome. thanks.

I don't know what a Hokie is but God is one of them (excluding JMU/ODU)- Lee Corso

Also, feel free to get in contact with me if you want a student's input, as I'm in the program as well.

skutt17@vt.edu

If you can get scholarships, its worth it. Otherwise.... pay as little for college as you can and continue to root for Tech. Too many people now are paying way to much for college, especially considering their majors. There are good opportunities for sports journalism at tech, especially with a huge athletic department, but not worth $160k imo. Also, I wouldn't discount PSU so fast.

ME Class of '16
Facts don't care about your feelings

Depending on the demographics, your grades/resume, and locations that VT is looking to take students from, you may get offered an "in state equalizer" (I don't remember the exact term) type scholarship. I was offered this upon my acceptance to VT (I graduated high school in 2011 in South Carolina). Unfortunately, even with that equalizer, it was much more affordable for me to go to Clemson in-state with the bonus of all the in-state lottery scholarships I had qualified for. For you, it may be a different story, perhaps that in-state equalizer is more than enough to sway you towards VT.

Make sure you are comparing apples to apples (i.e. look at tuition specifically), unless you live at home during your 4 years, you will have to pay something for an apartment/dorm and food, plus no matter where you go you will have to buy books. I always found living off campus to be cheaper than living on campus. Looking at Tech's $31k OOS tuition vs $9k in state you are looking at a difference of $88k over your 4 years, which is a whole bunch. The question is not: Is the Virginia Tech experience $88,000 better than the Waynesburg experience, the question is: Is the VT degree worth $88,000 (plus interest) more over a lifetime than the Waynesburg degree. I look back now and wish (for my career) that I would have considered the MITs and gawd-awful expensive schools a little more because the connections could mean earning $2 million more over a career (notice connections not education). You can root for Tech (and donate to the Hokie Club) for life, whether or not you actually attend (look at OSU, ND, and the Bama's of the world!). Your decision should come down to which university you think puts you in the best position for the next 45 years rather than your next 4.

If you have not already done so, look at Ohio University (not State) they are renown for Journalism (not sure about sports specifically) so it would open some doors and costs about $10k ($21k/yr tuition) less than Tech for OOS and Athens should be cheap cost of living.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Another school that is kind of in the running is Bowling Green, for much of the same reasons as you listed for Ohio, the problem is that it is probably too far away. I wouldn't be considering VT if I hadn't grown up loving them tbh
I would also probably not want to cover Ohio and West Virginia sports after college, VT would give oppurtunities in Virginia, North Carolina, etc, which is notably better
Also WU has a 70/30 girl/guy ratio (nursing majors, they get after ya)

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I never hear much about BG's specialty other than teaching degrees, but I can tell you that the social scene there is about as exciting as a funeral home (I have visited friends for weekends there, only twice for the aforementioned deadness), despite the 60/40 girl/guy ratio. Ohio U has a much better reputation in terms of things to do when not studying and would be much closer to PA and Tech.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Ohio U doesn't have Sports Journalism like WU has, Ohio encourages Journ students to also minor in Sports Administration, which isn't worth it for a school 5 hours away.
Bowling Green is more of a last resort if I don't get into VT

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

well damn. there goes that idea. I know nothing about the intricacies of the world of journalism, I didn't realize that Sports Journalism was a specified field of study. I always assumed sports media had a Journalism degree and were just interested in sports or that colleges had a few classes geared toward covering sports for those interested. Forgive me if I am ignorant here, but is there a lot of difference between covering a sporting event and covering any other event?

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

For the community college root, I really don;t think going to community college would be worth it, just to go to VT for two years, would probably just go to WU for 2 or 3 years then go to VT, would probably be a little more expensive, but still wouldn't lose the classic college feel

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

Do not, under any circumstances, go $160,00 in debt to go to any college.

I faced a (sort of) similar decision when I was applying for grad school. I stayed in-state and went to a pretty affordable school for undergrad, but for grad school, the allure of going to a school that I had loved since I was a kid coupled with the engineering department's reputation pulled me to VT. I loved Blacksburg, had some excellent professors, and every opportunity to get a great education and be involved with some really cool research, but I can't confidently say I would make the same decision if I could do it over again. I ended up finishing my Master's degree with ~$35K of debt, and these are my takeaways:

1. Starting your career in "the real world" with $35K in debt sucks. I was able to find a pretty good job not long after graduating, and even so, that amount of debt was a little bit suffocating. I can't imagine what $160K would feel like...that might be manageable if you're a doctor, but $160K with a journalism degree would be...bad.

2. The quality of education you receive is far, far more dependent on your commitment level than the reputation of the school. One of the most talented engineers I have ever worked with spent two years at a community college, and transferred to a cheapest public school in the state. I've also worked with some very mediocre people who have degrees from some of the highest rated nuclear engineering programs in the country. You get out what you put in.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

This man speaks the truth! The name on the degree only gets you your first job. After that it is about what you do, but it can really help to start at the middle and work your way up.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

I just dug up my old amortization script, and crunched some numbers. Just to impress upon you how much $160K is:

  • Assuming 4% APR, you would have to pay ~$540/month just to stay ahead of interest.
  • Again, assuming 4% APR, If you payed $600/mo., it would take you 55 years to pay to pay it off, and you would pay $236K in interest over that span.
  • At $800/mo., the life of the loan would be close to 28 years and you would pay $104K in interest over that span.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

My God in Heaven! That's beyond sobering, that's gobsmacking. Apprentice with a Master Plumber and become one. Work for yourself instead of for the bank. I cannot imagine that kind of debt as a young person.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Work for yourself instead of for the bank.

Bingo!

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

4% rate is conservative now. Student loan rates are in the 6% range, and "closing" on refinancing can cost a lot of cash upfront to save on interest in the long term.

Chem PhD '16

No doubt. I payed in the 6 to 7% range on mine.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

We pay more than that for 1 person.
It can be done. Don't do it for a garbage degree that won't earn you a living.
Plan for it.

Holy Crap! If anyone did this...Dave Ramsey has a few words for you...

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

I'm sorry, but VT isn't worth $160k a year no matter what anyone tells you. If they do tell you that, then tell them to take the O&M glasses off, or figure out what they are trying to sell you.

The only time I'd pay that kind of money is if it was Harvard, where even if you got an Art degree you'd still be making $150k a year (hyperbole, but you get my point).

You can get just as good quality education for your degree being in-state (even if you don't go to PSU) for much less than that cost.

It was 40K a year, but still...

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Ok, so my comments so far have been half joking, but also dead serious. The way I see it is, if VT and learning from a legend like Roth is what you want, then go for it. If there's one piece of advice I can give to someone younger it's this, if you know what you want, damn the torpedoes and make it happen. There are ways that you can make it happen for cheaper that many have said. But if it is truly what you want and you don't do it, you will always regret it. I know I was joking about your Uncle, but it's not a terrible way to pay for school. And a word of advice from an Army vet, if you do go that route and you're only doing it for the college money, do yourself a favor and go Air Force. You will simply enjoy life more.

Edit: Reading everyone else's comments makes me self conscious that this one came off as a little irresponsible. I don't mean it to sound that way and being responsible about your debt is paramount. The main thing I wanted you to take out of this comment is that if VT is your dream, there are ways to make it happen responsibly.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Your biggest priority should be no student loans. Going to an in-state school would be a far better idea. In fact, I'm trying to impress upon my family that my niece's desire to go to Rice at $60k/year + books would be a massive mistake and that she should go to a school in Tennessee instead. Thankfully, she's only a junior so there's still time to change her mind.

And, yes, I would even talk her out of Tech for similar reasons, but her summer architecture camp at Tech this year did that for her (it was highly disorganized).

If you don't want to go an in-state school, I'd do the community college option while working, and I don't mean burger flipping. I mean cutting yards, walking dogs, tutoring, landscaping, whatever you can to actually make a decent wage. Save some for living on, the rest for going to school and then when you transfer pay cash and continue to work. Work study programs in addition to working and saving.

And apply for as many scholarships as you can. Take the ACT multiple times. Take the SAT multiple times.

I'd also give you the same advice if you go to an in-state school. I'm planning on going back and finishing a degree in January and I'm going to keep working while in school, and may even pick up some part time jobs to help pay for it.

First, your question doesn't consider financial aid, and there is certainly some available.

The fact is, though, that college will affect everything you do after that experience. You may meet your future spouse there, and you will certainly move to your first employer from there.

You do have to work out the finances, but if you put some effort towards it, you can work that out. Like others have said, I had a roommate from New Jersey who became a Virginia citizen to get in state rates by the time he was a Sophomore.

I wouldn't trade my college experience at Virginia Tech for anything. Luckily, it was a lot cheaper in the 1980s.

So my advice is this. Figure out what you want, and then figure out a way to make it possible. Keep doing that, and you will have a fantastic life.

Edit: Sports Journalism, you say? Wow. Sounds a lot like a career where you won't make a lot of money. You should only borrow money if you're going into a career field where there's a likelihood that you can pay it back. So you really do need to find financial aid/scholarships/parental money to pay for your school. The cash flow has to work, so you don't have my vote to go to VT unless you can find some money to pay for at least half of it, and even then you need to be an in state student by your Sophomore year - which means you need a job in Blacksburg.

So much this. I was processing a loan application for someone last week who had $56k in student loans that was making $25k annually as a bus driver for the local school system. So many people think that because their loans are deferred based on their income that lenders don't obligate you to them when you are trying to get a car or home loan. Wrong. If you're going to take on that kind of financial obligation, be absolutely certain that you'll be able to afford to live after you leave school. I love Virginia Tech as much as anyone on this site, but make sure you weigh your pros and cons. Talk to a financial advisor if you have access to one and good luck! It sounds like you have a tough decision to make!

I'm gonna be real and say no. If you aren't doing engineering then it seems better to go somewhere cheaper.

Not many places are worth that much. Although, I'm dropping like 300,000K right now for my education so what do I know.

As someone who did this, move to Blacksburg, or Christiansburg, get a job and maintain residence for a year. The job is key. If you just live in Virginia, but aren't paying taxes to Virginia, they don't like it. Get a job, pay taxes, and apply for in-state tuition after the year is up.

Even if you sit out the year:
1) You'll save money on tuition.
2) You'll be able to save money for use when you start college.
3) You'll be eligible for more scholarships/grants for being in-state.
4) You'll be able to establish connections without having to worry about classes for a bit.

My only regret is that it took me the first year of school to consider doing that. I've been paying on that first year of out-of-state tuition for a decade.

EDIT: Someone else posted it above but after me, I forgot the whole "can't be in school" thing. But that's just for the one year.

That sounds like a decent plan to me, if you can get your parents on board.

Yeah my parents probably wouldn't
See above comment

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I think taking a year or even 2 off and living in Blacksburg/Christiansburg is a great idea. You could have a full time job, live cheaply, make friends (have a semi-college experience), and do journalism work on the side. Your connection with Roth is huge here, and the addition of the ACCNetwork plus opportunities at a P5 school are something that you shouldn't pass up. However, limiting debt should be your #1 priority. In state tuition, plus 1-2 years of established connections would allow you to maximize your college education and experience. I took a year off in the middle of college and it was one of the best things I've ever done. I wish I had done that right out of high school instead of in the middle. Living on your own forces you to grow up, and you will be much better adjusted to college life than you would be coming straight out of high school.

Outside its night time, but inside its LeDay

You may hate PSU, but if you're asking "is it worth it", it's not worth going to VT out-of-state when you can go to PSU in-state. The odd of a VT degree getting you a job over a PSU degree are not worth considering at that price point.

If you're reading the above post and thinking, "is this guy serious?!?," you can safely assume I'm not.

HOWEVER, Psu school of journalism is horrible, I intern with several of the students that are in it and none of them feel they are being prepared for a career outside of college

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

The more you worry about money the harder it'll be to get it. If you want to go to Tech don't sweat the money. Do what you truly want and everything else works itself out

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

found the millennial :-P

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

You found the 22-35 year old? On this board? Gasp.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Chem PhD '16

Hey Ice, college admissions officer checking in.

You are making a decision way before necessary. An application is worth it to VT. See if scholarships or opportunities appear. VT is currently looking for more out of state-ers. This means, if you have the scores and GPA, there could very well be money involved in the form of scholarship.

When I talk to students about taking loans, community college, other opportunity, you have to look at what your average degree will earn. When I talk to engineers, you average engineer graduate will make enough money to pay back loans in a few years. I don't know what sports journalism pays on the average.

Let me be a little biased for a moment: You say you want the classic college experience and would potentially 2 and 2 with WU to VT. WU has less than 2k students. Your local CC will have a more traditional feel. Their total cost before scholarship is $35k last year. You are estimating a total cost of $9k a year and WU seems to offer $15k a year at max (https://www.waynesburg.edu/admissions/scholarships-and-awards/first-year...). That puts you at $20k a year at best. WU has an average SAT ~1050 while VT is ~1280.

Ultimately, there won't be a 100% right or wrong choice. I think the only wrong choice you can make is calling a decision before you have all your information. You may want to set a point where VT becomes affordable to you and start looking around the internet, your community, and the sports journalism community for scholarships, grants, and opportunities to reduce costs. Something like the Calhoun Schoalrships (https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2018/03/calhoun-gift.html) can gift anywhere from $1k to full cost.

If you don't apply, you are telling yourself no.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I already applied, just waiting to hear back (if you see an application from a Grella, Nathan, don't delete it)
WU offers A LOT of Financial aid, every student recieves an automatic scholarship, which is the number you pulled up, but it is looking like I could get a lot more in grants based on the low amount of attendance at the school

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I don't work there anymore but still have a handful of buddies on the admissions staff. Let me clear something up: Financial Aid, if you are truly talking federal financial aid, is a need based system. It is based on your care taker's tax info. It creates an EFC (estimated family contribution) that determines how much your family is expected to pay for your education. This number should be fairly regular between schools.

WU, not to knock it, has some pretty low academic standards and a 95% acceptance rate. You get what you pay for and if you are the kind of kid that can make it into Tech, I want to stress this to you, you need to squeeze every cent out of WU. VT has a ton of connections, facilities, opportunities, and students that will give you a massive advantage. It is not to say that you cannot achieve the same from WU, but I am saying that what you save in tuition dollars, you are going to have to make up with hard work.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

When I talk to engineers, you average engineer graduate will make enough money to pay back loans in a few years

How are you getting your numbers?

By talking... to engineers.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Ok, so no empirical data then? Right.

Correct. I could fabricate an argument with average starting salaries but some stats nerd would come in and argue time of possession should be a bigger factor.

Edit: Looked it up because I get too invested in dumb stuff. Quartiles are at $60k, $65.5k, and $72k according to https://db.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/PostGraduationRepor....

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

So if you have $160k in debt (5% APR, for shits and giggles) and you pay, $1000 a month, it would still take you 22 years to pay off.

My only point of contention with your post is it would be misleading to tell anyone to pay $160k in college tuition and tell them they can pay it off "in a few years" with an engineering degree.

I'm sure you didn't mean it intentionally or maliciously, but I took issue with that.

I have a computer science degree that I did just that with. At Virginia Tech. I paid half of tuition and expenses, my parents paid half. I borrowed all of mine, and co-oped. I was an in state student, though, and also had some small scholarships.

My loan wasn't anywhere close to $160K, but I suspect that's a pretty high number. Whatever the number ultimately is, though, Sports Journalism is going to be a pretty hit and miss profession in terms of cash flow.

The numbers do have to work out. I like the idea of getting a job locally, getting in state tuition, and working it from there.

The $160k is four years out of state. If you did half of a loan for instate then you're looking at $40k, which is more feasible than $160k is; its like getting an expensive car which you can pay off in 3-5 years.

So I see your point, but it's not quite "just that" in relation to what this person is trying to do.

WARNING: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE INCOMING
I graduated in 2007 with $22K in debt (yay in state!). I took a job in rural virginia making decidedly less than the average starting salaries for MEs at the time. I got married a year later to a girl with $42K in out of state debt. A few years later I quit my job to volunteer with a campus ministry at tech and worked engineering on the side and, all told, my income dropped about $10K/year. We still managed to pay off all our school debt before we left blacksburg in 2015. To recap: ~$64,000ish debt paid off in roughly 8 years. I fully realize there's no way that happens with other degrees, but engineering should be one of those degrees that pays for itself, especially if you land an average or above average job out of college. Hell, if I had known how to cook when I graduated, I could have paid it off way earlier. Instead I was dropping $400+/month eating at restaurants instead of grocery shopping.

That said, I am way the hell behind on retirement contributions compared to my peers and we didn't buy a house til 2016 so there were definitely sacrifices made.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I didn't go to Tech but I'll give you my personal philosophy about higher education:

Life can take just about every tangible thing away from you, but your education is yours forever. You can never put a price on the opportunity to learn from the best in the business. Keep that in mind when making your decisions.

I went to a private college for undergrad and proceeded to go out-of-state for law school. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Also, yes. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

Scholarships are worth looking into, as well. Link

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

Actually, you can put a price on education. $160,000 is a huge sum of debt. In some places that's as much as a mortgage!

The average salary of an entry level sports reporter?

$31,173

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Sports_Reporter/Salary/a7702e3b...

If he spent every dollar paying off just his student loan it would take him almost 6 years before interest. That isn't worth it!!!

Even if you get scholarships, please, for yourself and your future, do NOT go into debt to go to school!

I think that cost estimate is high, and certainly doesn't reflect working to lower it.

The finances have to be considered, but it is worth trying to figure out financial aid and scholarships before making the decision.

I would fight a little harder before giving up a VT dream for a Waynesburg state one.

It's worth pencil-whipping the numbers a lot more before conceding your dream.

The estimate is what he posted above x 4 years, sans scholarships, so if anything it's probably a little low since tuition will rise each year.

I'd only do a VT dream if he can find some way of doing it without going into debt. Even then, he has options beyond Waynesburg State within Pennsylvania.

I hate PSU as much as the next guy, but it is a really good school. On top of that, if you want the "College Experience", it's a hard place to beat.

Stay in state. Save money. get a quality education.

I would push you to really consider the best schools in your state despite your current apprehension about them. Education an investment. The goal is to maximize the return on that investment. A PSU or WU would definitly put you in a better position to maximize your return.

Unless someone has the money saved, no one should ever consider out of state schools unless you are willing to move to Blacksburg for a year to go in state (I have had a couple friends do this.)

Graduating without (or with minimum) student loan debt is one of, if not the, largest advantage you can have to start your adult life. That said, sometimes you do have to take financial risk. I imagine both schools should be able to provide employment data (average time of job, frequent employers, average salary out of school, etc) for each major. You should be able to crunch the numbers and determine if the cost is worth the potential upside.

Also, I know that you can get in-state tuition if you choose a major not offered by a public university in your home state (In my day, ocean engineering students from Maryland were all able to get in state tuition). Not sure if you can find a way to take advantage of this rule (or if it still exists).

EDIT: Also consider cost of living adjustments. As a Marylander, attending VT out of state was roughly was roughly the same cost as attending UMD given that board/rent in college park area was more than twice what it would be in Blacksburg. But that was when I started school in 2008.

Twitter me

The instate when you're out of state is not offered anymore at VT. They stopped in 2013 I believe. I had a bunch of friends from Maryland grandfathered in.

This is not at all surprising. When my sons were looking at colleges, they received significant scholarship money from GA schools (we have the state Hope Scholarship that paid tuition and fees, for GPA of 3.0 and higher) and Auburn offered a scholarship that made it equivalent to in state (the Auburn grad got a 2nd scholly, from the degree program, to cover the in state). When I called VT, to ask about scholarships, since we hadn't heard a thing from them, I was told "so many kids want to go to school here, we just assume that you are willing to pay out of state, if you apply to VT".

Seemed like the kind of response that you'd expect from UVA.

That's a shame. I'd have never been able to finish at VT without the Academic Common Market help.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Nobody can realistically put a price tag on the experiences you will hypothetically have and the life you will hypothetically live. Focus too much on enjoying the experience without considering the cost generally leaves people miserable in the long run. Focusing too much on each and every penny as it is spent generally makes people miserable day in, day out.

As my grandmother used to say, "Money's not everything." As my grandfather used to reply, "No money, no funny."

$160k is a lot of money, and $160k in debt could be downright crippling, especially with interest. Assuming a ten year repayment at a 6% rate, $160k will actually cost you something like $1800 bucks/mo and $218k.

Chem PhD '16

It's just money.... DO IT. I think you came here looking to be talked into it.

When you're balls deep in debt 5 years from now, blame good ol' GUNTAR....
"GUNTAR MADE ME DO IT"

I went to VT out of state. During the college decision process, every time I ran into an alumni they ranted and raved about the school. I've seen heavy metal fans less enthusiastic....

Blacksburg was so cheap compared to every other school I was looking at, the cost of living leveled the playing field.

If you don't do VT, use some of the money you saved to study abroad. You're only young once. Spend it having a great time and learning a lot about the world.

FOSTERS: Australian for defense

Look into schools (both in and out of state) that are known for your field. Try to find out as much information as you can about all of the schools. Go on campus tours, talk to students/alumni, look into the schools' websites, try to get in touch with faculty. Apply to the schools that offer what you are looking for. Look into scholarships (both at the schools and scholarships offered by your community--ask your guidance counselor about these), financial aid, working, etc. Possibly get your core classes out of the way at a local school or CC, check with the admissions office of the schools that you might want to transfer to in order to see what will transfer. Continue to build relationships and connections with people in your desired field.

Figure out what you want and what is best for you then look into the ways to achieve your goals.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Fuck the cost of college. That's just stupid, to pay $40K a year for VT. How is that possibly defensible?

Would I pay $40K/year for Harvard? yeah, maybe, but not feel great about it.

You're paying more than that to go to Harvard. My niece wants to go to Rice and it's $65,000 per year cost of attendance. Harvard estimates at just under $77,000 on the high end.

Wow. Lots of aid for us middle-classers at those elite private schools, right?

Harvard also almost a $40 BILLION endowment, and something like 70% of their students qualify for financial aid.

I actually saw somewhere recently that Harvard could go without charging a single student from here out, and be just fine considering the size of the endowment

I highly recommend that you consider beginning your college education at the community college level. As someone who attended classes at Virginia Tech, community college and private art school, I can tell you that would will find high-quality professors (and low-quality ones) at any and all schools.

There is no reason you should spend out-of-state money on Intro to German or whatever other basic classes you need to take.

VT is a great school and if you want to attend there work to make it happen. But get the general stuff out of the way first. Save yourself some money and find out through those cheaper classes (if you can) that journalism is really where you want to be before dropping that kind of money.

I know if feels like you need to decide in a rush and you don't want to waste time or get left behind, but a little patience now can save you years of time and money later.

edit: if you do plan on going to a different school and transferring, be sure to speak with the staff at the school and see if you can get the target school to commit to honoring those credits. Don't take classes that won't transfer unless you see a specific benefit in the class.

I'm not going to tell you your dreams aren't worth pursuing, but I have a hard time believing sports journalism is a growth market that is going to make triple digit debt before you get your first paycheck worth it.

I tell everyone to go to a good trade school. Take on like 20k in debt if you have to, and get a job paying great wages in 2 years. If you really want that sports journalism degree, you can then afford it.

There are a lot of good schools in the state of PA not named Penn State... and I wouldn't recommend basing your decision on who has the best program you think you are most interested in today because that is likely to change.. I know what I thought I wanted to do in high school is not what I ended up doing (thank God).. Pick the best overall school based on factors important to you (cost, campus life, academic reputation, etc.) and figure out what career you want to pursue once you get there. Keep an open mind. My $.02 .

This will probably be heresy, on this site, but after seeing my niece and nephews struggle to pay their $100K student loans, from undergrad, I feel compelled to offer the following:

My son, who is a member here and his twin brother who isn't, had the choice of "hoping" for scholarships at VT, while facing $40K/yr and accepting what ended up being full tuition, fees and books from Auburn and Georgia Tech, respectively. Both have jobs where they probably could handle the payment on $160K in student loans. Free at those other schools was the far better financial choice. The Auburn grad is still a huge VT fan and went to VT for grad school, but he doesn't have that huge financial bill, to pay every month (the GT grad isn't a real fan of sports... where did I go wrong with him?). .

I love VT, but if you have scholarships and/or in state tuition elsewhere, that cut the cost by $100K or more, then you should do that, especially in sport journalism, which doesn't exactly have an abundance of $100K/year jobs.

If that were the choice, I'd go to the comparable school that was free. Is that the choice here? I never heard of the other school he mentions. I wouldn't sacrifice the quality of school. I'd work harder to make the one I wanted to go to happen.

I don't know if free is a choice. I'm just sharing the situation that my sons were facing. In contrast, my two nephews and niece decided to not do in state public (one went to private in state, which was more than out of state). All three are struggling to pay their loans, along with rent and food.

Free makes it an easier choice, but $40K in debt vs $160K is no different than free vs $120K. The lesson is the same, either way, unless the job pays enough to do the higher cost, then don't do it.

For most people, free isn't a choice. From my perspective, 40K is a LOT different from 160K. 40K is an expensive car payment. For me, that's worth it if it's a career-supporting degree.

Still, like I've said in several posts, ya gotta run the numbers.

So much this. $160,000 in debt is no joke, even if you're coming out of school making $200,000 a year - and very few people do.

VT may be your dream school, but is it worth going to your dream school with that nightmare hanging over you? THIS is why we have a student loan problem in America -- people aren't teaching their children to be smart about where they go to school and why and are, instead, signing up 17-19 year-olds and themselves for hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for careers that might never even come close to paying off that debt.

I wouldn't advise my 17-year old self to do that, I will do everything I can to advise my brother and his ex against letting my niece go $250,000 or more in debt for Rice, and I don't want to see you saddled with that level of debt coming out of school, either.

If someone leaves VT with a degree in Sports Journalism and 160K in debt, I'm going to go ahead and say they didn't work hard enough to lower those expenses. I agree I wouldn't do that, but I also wouldn't get a cut-rate degree in Sports Journalism.

Cut out some of the high end groceries, get a part time or co-op job, and get some roommates. Apply for some grants/scholarship money. Lean on the parents harder. Find one of them there scholarships people are always talking about. Maybe there's one where your parents work?

Work a little harder to lower that number. It will be good practice for the long road ahead in Sports Journalism, because lets face it, that road is only going to be up hill.

The problem you and he both are seeing is "VT vs Waynesburg State". Certainly there are more options within the state of Pennsylvania that offer journalism degrees at an affordable price.

No amount of debt is worth going to your dream school. Thankfully I only had one semester of student loans, but I ended up doing something my HS transcripts would have never pointed to when I went to VT in the mid-90s:

I dropped out.

Life happens, which is part of why I'm pushing this so hard and even that one semester of student loan debt sucked! Even if scholarships, work-study, working full time, etc got him down to $40,000 in student loans that's still a massive amount of debt to clear through! Which, again, is why I'm saying "don't do this".

If he can find a way to get a full ride and/or pay for it all without saddling himself with a mountain of debt, then do it. But that same goal can be more easily accomplished by staying in-state.

I'm just saying to work better to define the actual options first.

I agree that those aren't the only two schools, and I'm also suggesting that the costs being discussed here might not be the actual costs.

I am relatively recent engineering grad (Dec 2009) , and I cannot fathom the crippling effect of an $1800/month student loan.

I may be in the minority, but I often wonder if college was the best financial decision for me and I paid nowhere near that amount.

I had a friend that became a Nebraska resident to get in state tuition. He worked for a year and his parents were able to gift him the max amount each year for him to live on and pay for school, it was really to be cheaper for them at the end of the day. He loved it and that was his dream to go to Nebraska (they were still good then).

Lots of people get into bad student debt because they dont know what they want to do or dont know their career path. I dont have the data, but I would argue that the odds are you won't be a sports journalist. Not because you dont have the talent, because you might find you dont like it or other things in life happen. But most people dont have a plan and dont know what they want to do.

If your plan is Sports journalists and you know it's what you want to do then ... sport journalists dont make a lot of money, my cousin was pretty poor until he became editor. But if you want to go to VT then make it happen, if that is your dream, then go all in. Is it the education worth it, no. Is the experience? Well that's up to you.

If you do this you need to go in eye open, know what your expected income will be post college, know what your payments to loans will be.

Most importantly, try to meet you future wife in another field that pays better.

I was in your shoes my senior year of high school. Grew up loving VT but there was no way I could afford the out of state tuition. I had to decide between tOSU or community college in VA for two years to establish residency. I chose the community college route.

Went to VWCC in Roanoke for three semesters and began working on my paperwork to apply to VT. Ultimately, I didn't pay a few of my bills (thanks mom and dad) and because of that, got denied in state tuition. I ended up having to settle and went back up north to tOSU.

Key takeaways:
1. Have lots of communication and keep notes on all of the requirements on getting In-state if you try community college or year off in VA route. I should have done a way better job of this and ended up paying for my lack of detail.

2. Community college is wonderful for getting pre-req classes out of the way. Just make sure the classes and school have proper accreditation. The downside of community college is that you most likely will feel like you're missing out on the "college experience". I know I did at least.

3. Whatever you decide, things work out. I had to settle for a college that wasn't my favorite but it turned out to be pretty incredible. I got to experience a college football playoff national championship and met my wife. College is college and you'll have a blast no matter where you go.

Good luck with this tough decision and keep up updated!

Little Bobby Tables told me my signature was false

Take student loans and default on them , going bankrupt. Live with parents for first 8 years of your adult career, thereby dodging early marriage/divorce. Save up tons of money and ball it up with a house and a nice car when your done

You can thank me later.

Outside of this, if you think it's a great idea to shoulder that kind of debt you are insane.

My sister declared bankruptcy due to a business deal gone south. The only debt she couldn't get out of was her student loans. The rest got wiped out along with her credit rating...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Bah can't even do that. Living at home for 30 years while you pay that loan off would work though.

Remember this experience and start a small college savings fund for your kid when he's born one day.

No. It is extremely difficult or nearly impossible to discharge student loans via bankruptcy. You will be in a much worse spot anyway. This is awful advice.

I can't answer the question specifically, but I will tell you this from experience- make GD sure you want to do what you study to do. I made that mistake by going to culinary school, and even though I have business included, it's pretty much wash to an employer because it's not stated on my piece of paper.... "Traditional" degrees maybe (probably are) different, but I totally screwed myself with almost 100k of debt and ended up absolutely hating the real world of my field. Again, maybe other fields are different, but the real world job is a completely different animal than the educational part.

I just dont want to see someone else do that to themselves. In the end though, follow your heart. Enjoy being young. It doesnt last long enough.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

from what i understand (based on experience working in Admissions), most legacies from out-of-state are usually given the in-state rate at most public universities. i'm not saying VT is one of them, but do check if we are. if this is the case, looks like problem solved!

Option 2: community college in your state and transfer. will cut down a lot of the educational expenses and your bank account will thank you in the future.

I hope to god that applies to VT because that would be amazing

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

My sons were going to have to pay out of state and I graduated from VT. It was my understanding that all of the legacy preferences were declared illegal because they have a very strong racial bias. I know that they were abolished in North Carolina, for that reason.

Unless things have changed since I went to school this absolutely does not happen at VT

So I have $50.53 I could give you, but maybe it's worth getting the undergrad as fast as you can at a small school while working part time and then transferring to the good school for your graduate degree that you complete as fast as you can while working part time, perhaps at a VT-non-affiliated media company that specializes in VT football, maybe unpaid, 'for exposure'. I'll still give you $50.53 when you start your grad degree in a few years, FWIW.

If your field won't get you a job that will cover the costs of the student loan within 10 years, max, it's probably not worth the cost of attending. I knew to many people after college that lived paycheck to paycheck for years after college because their student debt was too high. And if you move to an area where the cost of living is higher your financial issues are only going to be exponentially worsened.

Virginia Tech is a great school. I had a lot of fun in college. But you can have a lot of fun in other places and still get a great education. I can't ever recommend someone to attend VT if you are going to end up poor for 10-20 years after you graduate. Have you looked at Syracuse? Are they any less expensive? Bill Roth went there and I know many other famous broadcasters did as well.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

This is very of-the-cuff. Go to community college for 2 years in VA to get your core classes out of the way. Get residency during that time and transfer to VT for your second 2-3 years. See if Bill Roth can get you some summer internships at the school.

Save money, get a first class education.

Life is more expensive than you probably think. My point is that even if you think you could aggressively pay back that kind of money quickly, it is very likely that something ir someone will step in and delay those plans. It is most likely that that kind of loan payment will have a very real effect on your quality of life.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

It's off the cuff but can you start at VT with one of those majors not offered in PA which grants you instate tuition? Not sure how this plays out once you switch to Journalism but this is a brainstorming session right?

Damn I fell old, out of state tuition and room and board was ~$17k when I went there. Luckily I had a full ride so that did not bother me but I remember thinking how crazy costs were back them. I can't believe how much the prices have gone up! Do you have an organs or limbs you are not that attached to that you can sell?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

TL;DR. Join the military do a couple of years and then use the GI bill to pay for school. You can do a ton of crap in the army even stuff that will probably relate journalism a little bit if you look to go Public Affairs or something. Also Psyops (Army) does a lot of media stuff as well and you can enter in 37F program to go straight into PSYOPS.

Seriously though I would take a look. Then in 4 yrs or something you can get out and have school paid for. Be a little bit wiser in your ways and more mature (not that you are immature but you are in high school).

If you have any questions about it let me know.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I know I suggested the GI Bill as well, but I forgot to send this warning.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I too would suggest some of military service, for anyone concerned with college debt. You also get experiences and training that you wouldn't anywhere else. If you don't want to start out with Active Duty Service, I would suggest the Army or Air National Guard over any other Reserve Component.

That being said, it also a major commitment and not to be taken lightly. DO NOT go this route, if you are not prepared to deploy for whatever reason; to wherever that might be.

http://vaguard.dodlive.mil/

It's all about The VPISU
VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
GO: Freeman Rebels, Keydets, Black Knights (the VMI of the North), NY Rangers & Giants, and ATL Braves.

On a similar note, doesn't the Corps of Cadets offer a lot of scholarships? I was under the impression during my time at Tech that most of the Cadets were paying little or no tuition.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

if you are a civilian in the corps, there may be one or two scholarships you can get, but it is by no means a full ride. If you get a ROTC scholarship for one of the branches then you can get a lot paid for, but it does not cover everything. And then you have to remain in good standing to maintain it and serve after graduation. I had a friend who had some health issues and ended up not being able to keep up with PT so he lost his Air Force ROTC scholarship and had to drop out of Tech.

I knew another guy who got kicked out of the corps, lost his ROTC scholarship, and stuck it out paying out of state tuition for the rest of his time at tech. Not good.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

The scholarships are of the type that mainly cover the cost of the uniforms, IIRC. Unless ROTC, they're paying full tuition.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

Yes ROTC scholarships pay full tuition. You still are on for room and board. But as a junior and senior I received a $300/month stipend back in 01-02. You do then owe an obligation to serve.

However if I could do it over again I think I would go into the service first and then go to school. Just from my experiences I would have liked to be enlisted in my current field but I'm too old and can't take a pay cut for that now with four kids.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Yeah, but your enlisted guys always have to deal with those young officers who get paid more, they're the worst!

(/s, brother)

But seriously, the pay cut hurts.

And what ever would you do actually having to work?

Edit: I can speak English. I swear.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

One other thought, not sure if this is possible at VT, but I know some folks that work at JMU full time and are getting their graduate degrees at JMU free of charge.

If you are planning to take 1-2 years off to work full time and achieve in-state tuition, it may be beneficial to look into full time employment for the university itself. It may allow you access to even cheaper or possibly free tuition.

this sounds like a great idea. See if Roth can hook you up with a media job with the university and get this deal!

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Never heard about this when I worked at JMU.

My quick advice would be to echo what many other people said above - do not, under any circumstances, go into $160k of debt just to come to VT. My wife financed her entire vet school via student loans (there was no other way) and we were saddled with about $190k of debt. I will say that we got out from under it, but only after a wealthy relative sadly passed away, but left us enough to get rid of the balance we had at the time. Had that not been the case, we would have been saddled with that bill until our kids were out of college (had we been able to afford having a family or buying a house). I calculated at one point that we would have paid back over $400k for that loan.

Seeing the bill for over $1000 a month when we were basically living paycheck-to-paycheck was the scariest and most difficult time of my life (logging in to FedLoan to check payment status and seeing the interest rate continue to rise was another - yeah, they can do that whenever they want). We both had doctoral degrees and were barely scraping by. It sucked, and it would have largely derailed our lives had we not gotten the inheritance windfall.

College is what you make of it. You can have an outstanding experience at many places. But unless you can get some financial aid to make the final cost bearable, don't go into crazy debt for a bachelor's degree.

Find which path is going to keep the flame of your passion alive. There's nothing worse than complacency when it comes to your education. It's always possible but incredibly more tedious/expensive to change paths midway down the road, it looks like the guys have made some suggestions about how you might be able to save some money towards tuition should you make the leap into the blue ridge. Think of this more of a serious business investment if you think you are savvy enough to turn the smaller tuition school into a profit go for it. If you think you can manage a large "hedge-fund" of student loans but it gets you in the door. Do it. Never fall short of the belief that if you work hard, you can achieve it all.

All I can think about is this quote in regard to our current economic respect for secondary education and exuberant loans mentality.

that gif is freaking me out, man

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I have +7 to my emotional gut punching attacks with a high percentage chance of hitting criticals...

Leg for the nerd-speak.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

it isn't so much the quote as they locked in the background and only animated his face. So his face is floating around while his hair stays still

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

This has my vote for the creepiest gif ever to be shown on TKP.

My apologies, in advance, for any strange sub-thread that may evolve from this.

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

nope, that would be this one. Not gonna post it because it makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Nope, blonde girl biting the head off a live fish for bait and then she still has scales in her teeth

Chem PhD '16

Hell no VT is not worth 160k with a communications/sports journalism degree. STEM or bust. Limited demand for this field and I would imagine the wages are only good for the very top talents of the industry. To be honest, without scholarships, i question whether there is any major at VT that is worth this expenditure. I don't feel that strongly about VT's quality of education and career networking opportunities vs the cost. I work in IT and I do believe I could have gotten the same level of education from a cheap local college, without the quality of life that blacksburg offers, the killer party scene and the name recognition of VT in my resume.

When i was 17, I was interested in sports journalism too. Most of the folks i knew that had this career interest and degree now work in property management or sales and don't have the income stream to pay down debts of this magnitude.

I suppose I'd ask, what's so bad about PSU? I can remember being less than fond of the college in my backyard, but if you can get it in, sounds you can live at home, pay in state tuition and still get that sweet sweet state college experience (read: partying). I don't expect you are going to find that much better opportunity at VT over PSU, just Bill Roth and considerably more debt. If Waynesburg offers the same major at a 4th of the price, you'd be be crazy to pick VT in my opinion.

Seriously brotha, go back and re-read that post above that details what it'd be like to pay off that much debt, every month, for the next n years.

Every year I see local college aged kids make terrible financial decisions, somewhat fueled by incompetent guidance counselors, that push them to go the 'best' school, not the most affordable one with enough options to move majors if the situation arises. I think it's mostly due to financial illiteracy among students and their families as well as this competition to go to the 'best' schools that seems to consume high school seniors.

Best of luck in admissions! Hope the scholarships coming flowing and you can have some choice down the line.

Do not, by any means spend $160k to go to VT - especially if it is communications. Honestly, with all of the specialized trainings, certifications, and overall need for IT professionals, I wouldn't even recommend a computer science degree from VT for $160k.

That much debt at your age has significant lasting effects, and will greatly hinder your ability to save for retirement (something you can't borrow for), buy a house, travel, etc. If you can't realistically see yourself earning $80k+ 4-5 years out of school (and continue on that kind of trajectory), I'm not sure how you could ever justify the cost

It seems like your options have been well stated. If it were me, I'd consider
1) Taking a year off to establish residency in VA
2) Go to PSU
3) Transfer in from a community college

To point #2, while you stated the degree isn't great from PSU, that's not going to matter past getting your first job. Neither VT nor PSU are Stanford (or in your case with journalism, Northwestern), so don't sweat it. You get your first job out of college by having applicable experience, and you get your next jobs by busting your ass at the first and being successful. I'm not really familiar with the industry you're pursuing, but I'd hardly think 2-3 years down the line, with a solid track record, anyone is considering where you did your undergrad.

Good luck

Neither VT nor PSU are Stanford

I hear great things about Stanford. We should dedicate a recruiting thread to them.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

To point #2, while you stated the degree isn't great from PSU, that's not going to matter past getting your first job. Neither VT nor PSU are Stanford (or in your case with journalism, Northwestern), so don't sweat it.

This is a fantastic point. There are very few majors and careers that care where you went to school. A lot of people put a ton of stock into the top whatever school when in reality employers just want someone that's going to bust their ass, be willing to learn on the go, and get along with others.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

While this is technically true, every resume that has UVa engineering on it puts a bad taste in my mouth before I even start the interview. I like to think I give them a fair shake anyway, but so far I've yet to have that assumption proven wrong. I had one lady with a masters in engineering from there that couldn't even tell me what book to look in for setting up a free body diagram. I understand being rusty on basics like that, but you should at least know that it's a physics question, even if you don't remember what statics and dynamics are.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica. by Beer and Johnston.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

I would've said a Statics book /:

But that's because I took statics before physics.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

1. I'm still waiting to work with a UVA Engineering grad worth their salt
2. Sports journalism is all about experience (I'm friends with a couple). You bust your hump working freelance or part time for a while, and hope a spot opens up, and then you snag it. I'd actually argue that its best to go somewhere that can hook you up with good, applicable experiences to build your resume. That may be the most valuable thing (outside of the actual education): resume building.

Honestly, with all of the specialized trainings, certifications, and overall need for IT professionals, I wouldn't even recommend a computer science degree from VT for $160k.

I wouldn't get a CS or engineering degree from *anywhere* if you want to work in IT.

That would be like getting a mechanical engineering degree to work at Jiffy Lube. That isn't to knock IT - it's a necessary maintenance and user support role - but it is not engineering and does not require an engineering degree.

I love VT with all my heart... but no school short of an Ivy is worth going $160,000 in debt over. I absolutely despise Penn State, but they are a good school and you would be well served to consider them. They can provide you a good education and a great college experience. Just because you want to get away from home is a bad reason when you're going to owe $16,000/yr + interest for the 10 years after you graduate.

Recruit Prosim

I wouldn't even go that far in debt to go to an Ivy.

I hate to discourage anyone from attending the greatest university on God's Green Earth, but I have to strongly recommend that you do not, under any circumstance, go $160k in debt for school. There are very few (if any) professions out there that justify that kind of debt, and I doubt that sports journalism is among them. Work the scholarship or residency angles. Get a job and work your ass off while you're here (if this is where you end up) to pay as much of your tuition as you can while you're attending. Good luck and I hope you have a great experience wherever you land.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

As an out-of-state tuition payer who racked up a shitload of student loans I feel the pain, and this is back when VT didn't cost nearly this much.

My advice echoes many on here: absolutely do not take on the debt. 160k is going to wreak havoc on you for a long time.

However, I do highly recommend going to VT so I have some suggestions that differ from the others because I see no reason why you should not go there. Here is how to do it the smart way:

First, some points:
1) You will not get in-state if you start school. It won't happen. Don't plan on it.
2) You will not get any benefits of being a legacy OTHER than admissions acceptance.

I saw others suggest community college but honestly I know the feeling of wanting to go to VT. My grandfather went there and graduated exactly 60 years before me. That's him as my avatar. Going to Tech was one of the best decisions I have EVER made but I did it the wrong way. I was impatient.

Now here is my advice for attending VT without the debt and getting the absolute most from your time in Blacksburg. TAKE A YEAR OFF.

Apply to VT and defer acceptance for a year. Take that year to move to Virginia and get in-state tuition. Move to the Blacksburg/Roanoke area and get a job. In that time find an opportunity in your field of interest and get on-the-job work experience. Do EVERYTHING they ask you to do and more, even if it's unpaid. What you want is the experience and the leg up career wise once you are out of school.

Don't take 'no" for an answer, and as I said don't be afraid of working unpaid. If you are smart you should be talking to Roth about this now and getting perhaps some helpful hints as to where you might be able to find on-the-job experience. Or and, despite him falling out of my favor, hit up Andy Bitter and see if he can help. By offering to work unpaid just to get experience it will get you in the door somewhere. If they can't help go ask another place. Just like asking a girl out the worst that's gonna happen is they say "no" but it's a numbers game and you will eventually get a yes. That experience may end up giving you an doorway to your first job after VT as well.

While I was too impatient to get in-state tuition I did work unpaid several times, working off hours or weekends or whatever, and career-wise it was one of the best decisions. These experiences helped catapult my career after school and every time it would eventually turn into a paid position.

Until that happens, drive for Uber/Lyft or whatever to earn money to survive.

Meanwhile, keep up with VT program during the year. Visit professors and talk to them about you starting school next year. Attend their events. Audit a class or two if you can. Do whatever you need to do to get experience on the cheap.

Then after a year off with your now in-state tuition in hand, start school and get the full VT experience without the crushing debt, but with on-the-job experience and the start of an industry contact list.

I remember the feeling of wanting to get to VT and get college started. I was impatient. 1 year is not much time. You will be MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better off.

If you are really smart you can earn enough during your year off to cover books, etc.

(NOTE: you should check if getting accepted and deferring will impact getting in-state tuition first before doing that. May be wiser to just not apply until the following year.)

EDIT:

I just quickly checked the guidelines HERE: http://www.schev.edu/docs/default-source/institution-section/Financial-A...

and some things have changed. While the term of domicile is still 1 year there is a guideline that everyone 24 years old or younger is automatically considered a dependent of their parents. There are only 2 ways (it seems) to overcome this, beyond everything else you must show (for example, your parents no longer claim you on their tax filings)

1) Ability to show strong evidence of financial independence. This could mean showing your parents inability to support you along with your ability to support yourself through your own means. But this is a subjective barrier to overcome that you will need to file a rebuttal for to demonstrate specifically. (Section 8 in above link)
or,
2) If you are still younger than 18, become emancipated from your parents as quickly as possible. (Section 10 in above link)

By virtue of having been emancipated prior to reaching age 18, an emancipated minor becomes eligible to establish a domicile independent of his parents. The earliest an emancipated minor could become eligible for in-state tuition is one year after the date of emancipation.

If you are younger than 18 emancipation looks like the best route.

All of this. One job suggestion if you move to Blacksburg. Drive for BT. They are always hiring, they start out at $13/hour, they are really flexible with hours so you can work around your hopeful internships while establishing residency and your classes if you want to keep working there after you start. Plus, you'll get a CDL, which has helped me in a jam quite a few times.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I agree with everybody above that it's really gonna be a personal decision on how much you value the tech experience.

On the other hand, as a current law school student, 160K for four years sounds like a steal

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.