Stinespring and Galen Scott hired by ODU

Looks like we'll be seeing familiar faces for awhile.

Hopefully Stinespring(TE Coach/Run Game Coordinator) keeps Galen(DB Coach/Wife Betrayer and Stealer) in check on the recruiting trail...

http://footballscoop.com/news/sources-old-dominion-adding-three-strong-a...

[ mod edit: moved to football forum ]

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Comments

Didn't expect to see Galen resurface so soon.

Or so close.

Click here to destroy wall.

Or so low.

Wouldn't be surprised if Fuente helped him out.

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Just wanted to post the obvious.....Stiney was a P5 OC under Beamer.....and hasn't sniffed that position at the FCS or G5 level since leaving VT. Maybe Beamer's worst mistake as HC.

HokieObsession

You...

I like you.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Maybe we'll get lucky and ODU will give him the OC reigns.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

In spite of him we managed some of our best offenses under him. 2009 and 2010 we finished 10th and 13th, respectively per offensive S&P. If you want to get really sad about what an opportunity that 2009 year was for us, we finished 4th in overall S&P that year and 10-3. We could have weathered that close Bama loss, but losing to GT and UNC back to back just torpedoed that season.

One of the main reasons Clemson managed to take the next step while we always came up short in our 10 win season run was that they found ways to win those tough, close games. We always just lost one or two, too many. Clemson played I think 7 or 8 one score games in their 2016 title season. This past season they managed to hold off A&M by 2 and took the lead late against Syracuse to win by 4. If Clemson dropped those two games, which would have been totally reasonable, they finish 11-2 and miss the playoff. That would have been classic VT. That said, I would love to be back winning 10-11 games a year and our biggest laments being not able to get over the hump as opposed to fighting for bowl eligibility and losing to mediocre Coastal teams with less talent.

Imagine those teams with that talent under a competent OC. Fuente didn't come in and immediately start breaking offensive records solely because he is an offensive guru. It's easy to break the records when the offense in years past was hamstrung by incompetence.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I think people underestimate how much of the conservative approach was due to Beamers coaching philosophy. Coach was fine with having a strong running game and not taking a lot of risk on offense and letting defense and special teams win the game. Also incompetent might be a bit of an aggressive description. Railing on Stiney was the cool thing to do, but numbers really don't support it. For arguments sake in 2010, that incompetent coaching staff hung 40+ on 2 ranked teams. Has Fuente don't that once yet?

I believe there is definitely some truth to that. The problem is ball control doesn't work when the other team is scoring more than you. Also, you can control the ball for only 4 downs at a time if you can't get that those 10 yards.

I know the offensive philosophy was CFB, but the play calls, that we knew were coming over half the time, were all Stiney.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

It wasn't just the play calls. It wasn't even mostly the play calls. It was the entire way Stiney designed his offense. He wanted to throw a dozen different looks at opposing defenses to confuse them. The problem was, we ran two, maybe three plays out of each look. As soon as the opposing defense figured out the keys to look for, we were pretty much stopped dead... unless we had somebody like Tyrod taking snaps, who could improvise something out of a busted play that was usually better than what we'd get if the play worked. Stiney never understood that it was far better to be able to run twenty different plays out of the same look than to be able to run one play out of twenty different looks.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

That 2010 team had a 4 year starter in Tyrod in his senior year and was loaded with talent around him.

The 2016 offensive roster is the only roster Fuente has had that is even comparable (although not as talented/experienced as 2010 in my opinion)....I think the 2016 offenses numbers were very competitive with the 2010 offense (may have been better).

Taking the 2010 numbers for Stiney is simply cherry picking offensive results when there were MANY years of lackluster offensive performance.

2009 finished 10th in offensive S&P with a score of 35.2, slightly higher than national title participants Alabama and Texas.

2010 finished 13th in offensive S&P with a score of 36.2.

2016 finished 51st in offensive S&P with a score of 31.9.

S&P is not a perfect measure, like any advanced analytic system there are certain attributes/tendencies/styles that are favorable to its methodology. Overall, it is one of the better measures of team quality on both offense and defense.

Good stats. Does it factor in competition?
Looking back at the 2010 team schedule they put up some points but I don't remember any of the opponents they beat having much defense.

Also
They put up 16 points in a loss to JMU
There was also the 12 point effort against a very good Stanford team where they were shut out in the 2nd half.

S&P is opponent-adjusted.

If you want to cherry pick though, 2010 team also scored 40+ on ranked FSU in ACCCG and ranked NC State on the road.

Thanks for info wasn't sure on opponent adjusted.

I know I was at both games and they were a treat....NC State comeback was truly epic.

The ACC was a good bit behind back then with the national scene. Stanford's defense was on a whole different level than NS State and FSU those days.

So do you think Stiney was an effective OC?

This is a common misconception in my opinion. The ACC of 2017, 2018, and probably 2019 is horrible. 2018 was one of the worst ACC years in my lifetime. The mid to late 2000's ACC wasn't as bad as some of these recent years (2009 was actually a pretty strong ACC year), they just lacked a true title contender. The ACC has little to stand on outside of Clemson the last two seasons, who skew our perception upward. 2016 was a great year for the ACC, and when Clemson and FSU were good at the same time in 2013 and 2014 it felt like the conference was moving in the right direction, but the ACC has felt the effect of the playoff in a major way. Clemson is robbing every other ACC team blind on the recruiting trail. They take their pick from NC, VA, TN, FL, and even GA now and everyone else gets the scraps and we are seeing an increasing gap between Clemson and everyone else. The talent level in the ACC is as bad or worse as it ever was in 2000's outside of Clemson.

I think Stiney was relatively effective for what we were trying to be, but that doesn't mean I wasn't lamenting our offense. I disagreed with the fundamental aspects of our offensive philosophy in the sense that I believe being behind the curve and slow to adapt to the changing climate of college football cost us on the recruiting trail for offensive talent, and ultimately led to our downfall from the top of the ACC. Our rigid unwillingness to open things up more than likely cost us several games (Stanford is probably one of those examples). That falls somewhere between Beamer and Stiney in that regard. I wanted Stinespring gone at the time, but I'm not willing to call him incompetent or pretend like he is some bumbling dumbass who doesn't understand football. I'm also not willing to just blindly agree that Fuente/Corny are some kind of offensive geniuses when we can't score points on bad ACC teams.

I think Stiney was relatively effective for what we were trying to be

I don't.

but I'm not willing to call him incompetent or pretend like he is some bumbling dumbass who doesn't understand football.

I am (at least, what's required to be a truly effective & competent offensive coordinator). I would've felt comfortable with him as just a recruiter & TEs coach (heck, even an o-line coach). But he stood by his decision to keep Newsome & did a piss poor job making needed adjustments in key games (whether that was Beamer's doing or not). The result that supersedes all others is that we NEVER ended up filling that empty trophy case. Kevin Rogers should've been made OC instead of Stinespring. Bottom line.

EDIT: Btw Chris, I completely agree with the beginning and rest of your post.

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Uva swallows

Kevin Rogers to OC is certainly an interesting hypothetical. I remember him being the Vikings QB coach more than anything (as a Vikings fan).

Stiney was regarded by many recruits, one's who came to VT and one's who did not, as their favorite recruiter. So he was certainly pulling his weight there.

I think one of the major issues during the Stiney OC years was the putrid OL recruiting (Curt Newsome's responsibility) and performance. I'm not sure any OC in the country would have been able to field a consistently great offense with the OL's we had in those days.

On the other side of the coin... Some of the JMU secondary coaches mentioned to me before that woeful game that they were very confident in going down and getting a win. I thought to myself, "Well, they have to say that." But the two things they told me were: 1. The receivers were very lazy blockers and if they could win there and get to #34, they liked their chances. 2. The route structures were elementary and the receivers regularly gave away exactly what they were going to do (I'm not sure how they recognized that). The defensive coaches felt very confident that day.

I know that the JMU game isn't indicative of the entire Stiney era. But I do think they were, in a very general sense, on to something. The offense was easy to figure out and therefore, at times, easy to defend.

Is it basketball season yet?

2011 - 30+ 7 times,
2010 - 30+ 9 times
2009 - 30+ 8 times
2007 - 30+ 7 times
I mean I get it that there were frustrating times, but we had an offense that helped us win the ACC 4 times. And that's awesome people think that they could call the plays from the stands, but we've really gotta get off of calling our coaching staffs incompetent, when we really don't know what we're talking about.

Completely agree, play calling is a chess match, and you have to factor in what the defense is trying to take away. It is simply not a one sided affair, teams make adjustments to your strengths. Play calling is about setting up future plays. so that the defense cant adjust and predict

How many of those points were scored by the Defense. Or set up by the Defense putting them inside the 30?

Do we have that great of an offense without Tyrod?

Me thinks no.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

LOL...funny that the 2012 results were not included.

The initial argument that Tyrod was the reason for the offensive success means that a with/without analysis would prove or disprove the argument. There are other factors such as the presence of Darren Evans, RMFW, and DW, but if Stinespring was the cause of success, there wouldn't be much deviation between subgroups (years).

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Fun Fact: Stiney had play calling duties taken away by Beamer.

So he wasn't the OC in 2012?

Hmmm...Puzzling as to why Beamer would have taken away his play calling duties based on your data.

Stiney fit Beamer's philosophy up to that point. Beamer recognized college football had changed and we needed a new style on offense. Beamer made a change. That's not hard to figure out. I'm also not arguing that we had a perfect offense during Stiney's years. I'm just saying it wasn't as bad as everyone wants to remember and these past couple years under Fuente should really help you realize that.

And I believe the ONLY reason for that, was because of the players, not Stiney-O'Cain-Newsome.

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Uva swallows

Fuente and Cornelson's efforts (both bad and good) have absolutely nothing to do with what Bryan Stinespring did during his time. The plays that were drawn up and called were called and my reaction as a fan was based on what I saw on the field as a result.

I wasn't watching the offense in 2012 and thinking to myself "its cool we are going to have different coaches with a questionable offense in 5 years so lets be ok with this crap offense".

I wasn't watching the offense in 2012 and thinking to myself "its cool we are going to have different coaches with a questionable offense in 5 years so lets be ok with this crap offense".

Tbh, I don't think any sane, reasonable human being that calls themselves Hokies were thinking that either.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

This was not about any one specific year that he was the OC

The plays that were drawn up and called were called and my reaction as a fan was based on what I saw on the field as a result

uh oh you're toast now, someone or other will come along and call you out for reacting to what you see, don't you know you're Being Completely Ridiculous and A Bad Fan if you Do That

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Pretty much comes with the territory when you decide to post on here.

I don't get that question... You're essentially asking "Do we have that great of an offense without our starting quarterback?" Ummm... no we don't. That's like asking would we have gone to the national championship without Mike Vick.

That's also completely ignoring the fact that we Ryan Williams, David Wilson, Darren Evans in the backfield with him under center.

Maybe people who are hell bent on throwing Fuente and Cornelson to the pyre for how the offense has looked the last couple years should take note.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Tyrod bailed out our offense many times with the threat of his legs that continued drives and created points. Any other QB would have most likely not have produced the offensive stats that the OP was referring to.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

Ok great... Logan was used extensively on QB keepers (pretty much our bread&butter that year) and goal line attempts, which was smart of VT due to his size.

My point was, those years (2009 and 2010), we probably don't have good of an offense (stats/rankings wise) if we didn't have Tyrod. He was able to escape the pocket and create more opportunities with his legs (due to our porous Offensive line/OL recruiting) more than any QB that we have had outside of MV7.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

That porous offensive line helped 3 different running backs break rushing records 3 out of 4 years from 2008-2011, but you're right, pass protection wasn't our strong suit and Tyrod did bail us out a ton. But still, Logan had similar passing stats the following year with the same offensive line and without the ability scramble as well as Tyrod, which means some of it was scheme and not just Tyrod's elite athleticism.

which means some of it was scheme and not MOST of it was just Tyrod's elite athleticism.

FTFY

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Uva swallows

That makes zero sense when you look at our offensive stats the following year. Same receivers, same offensive line, same running back talent, same playbook, but a new quarterback. If it was all Ty, then our offense should have fallen off dramatically. Let me be clear, I am not arguing that Tyrod was not incredible.

And I didn't say ALL, I said MOSTLY. In fact, earlier up this thread tree I mentioned "talent on the field" (which shouldn't be misinterpreted as EXCLUSIVELY Tyrod).

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I get where you're coming from, and I agree that people are probably too quick to trash stinespring. But he got those results with the 2nd and 3rd best quarterbacks in VT history, along with a string of some of the best running backs in VT history. Those teams were absolutely STACKED offensively, yet it never seemed as if we were playing up to our potential, especially in big games with similar talent levels against smart defensive coaches. I don't know any Hokie that trusted our offense to come through in those situations (even if we did a couple of times) because it felt like Tyrod and RMFW and DW were winning those games despite their coaches. Maybe that's unfair, but raw stats are never going to persuade against that argument. And as soon as that crop of elite players cycled through, the talent level on offense dropped precipitously and our offense absolutely cratered. That bolsters the argument that Stinespring was the beneficiary of some incredible talent, and once those generational players passed our offensive coaches were exposed.

Again, that might be too harsh, and I'm inclined to see both sides (even if I ultimately count myself in the camp that sees our offensive coaching as being responsible for not maximizing our potential in those years), but raw stats are never going to tell the whole story.

That 2009 team was the best I've seen since I started following VT in 2007. Ryan Williams was absolutely dominant. Ironically that was the only VT team in my four years of undergrad that didn't make a BCS bowl thanks to GT having an incredible year.

If we had a few more playmakers at receiver that year, I'm right there with you. We were limited on the outside and teams knew that. Danny and Jarrett were just sophomores and didn't really scare people yet. Because of that people were able to concentrate on the run and that's what caused us issues at times, like against UNC and Georgia Tech. Defense was insane that year with Worilds and Kam.

You wouldn't typically hear about that on TKP these days because it doesn't fit the current narrative of bashing Cornelson and Fuente.

Great post btw.

I'm really surprised Scott got picked up by a FBS team.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I'm surprised it wasn't Liberty...

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Really?

Probably an excellent move on the part of ODU.

I mean, last year he was VT's co-Defensive Coordinator, and an upcoming coach. He screwed up, but someone was going to give him a chance.

DJ Durkin is already sniffing around Alabama. Memories in college football are shorter than you realize.

He spent two years a P5 school. I'm not shocked either that he would land a G5 DB coach gig. I didn't think he'd resurface this quickly, but the more I think about it coaches usually find a landing spot pretty quickly.

I think it works well for both of them, not that I wanted to see him land that close.

I believe one of the (alleged) reasons he was promoted to co-DC was because he had DC offers from other programs. If true, great get for ODU.

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Yeah wait till Hugh Freeze wins 9 games this season. He'll get some calls and be a P5 coach by 2021 for sure.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Bama takes in all kinds of misfits and retreads. Just read an article on the Athletic about their turnover and how particularly the Enos leaving didn't go over well.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

From SB Nation:

"Where the F#$% is Dan?!?"

Several of the staffers knew the answer to their boss' question. Word had already spread that 50-year-old Enos was headed to Miami to become offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach under Manny Diaz. No one in the room wanted to be the one to break that news to Saban, even though Miami was primed to announce it in a couple hours.

One staffer scrambled to check if Enos was in his office. It was empty, save for a pencil on the desk. Maybe he'd already moved into Locksley's old office, but that one was empty, too.

"He moved out like the Colts," said one person with knowledge of the matter, equating Enos' departure to the middle-of-the-night exit by the old Baltimore NFL franchise to Indianapolis.

Ghosting Nick Saban has be the dumbest thing a coach on Alabama's staff has ever done.

Why? Being on the Bama staff is now on his resume. Most coaches say working on the bamenstaff is the hardest coaching job right now. Notice how most of them leave after a year or two, not all to better jobs.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I think the issue is the ghosting part. If other Saban-assistants-now-head-coaches take offense to this, that's a lot of employers no longer willing to hire you.

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It's one thing to leave for other jobs, like you said, tons of Bama assistants have done that over the years. Saban often helps them land their new jobs.

Enos just straight up left his office and never came back, never told Saban he was leaving.

I saw this, and then I later saw an article refuting it. Hard to tell what exactly happened with the he said/she said kind of stuff.

Stinespring will pick up Bobby Wilders offense. They score 50 points a game. He comes to Blacksburg as the new head coach after Fuentes 2nd national championship. He leads our offense to the number 1 offense in the country. His statue gets out next to frank and the newly completed Bud Foster. Everyone loves how innovative his offense is.

You had me at

2nd national championship

This is what happens to your brain when you drink Jobu's rum.

"Fuck you Jobu, I do it myself"

HokieObsession

Let's Go

HOKIES

At least they won't have an opportunity to enact revenge against an old employer with regularity or anything.....................

Shit

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Even lolUVA isn't dumb enough to schedule ODU for the next 27 years.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I'm not that upset about the ODU series. I know it was a train wreck in Norfolk last time we went down there, but I don't see that happening again in the future (or so help me God). It's an easy way for 757 recruits to watch us play rather than making the 4-5 hour trek to Blacksburg, there are plenty of Tech fans in the area, and the atmosphere was really good last time. I believe it would have just as good if we had dominated that game like we should have with all the Tech fans in attendance.

It's much better than the ECU series and Liberty series. As far as long-term home-and-homes with G5 teams go, this is a relatively good situation for us. You know, as long as we don't fucking lose when we're favored by approximately 400 points.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

As far as long-term home-and-homes with G5 teams go, this is a relatively good situation for us.

ummmmmm

You know, as long as we don't fucking lose when we're favored by approximately 400 points.

Ok, that's what I thought

That said, even with the proximity it still isn't a good series for us. ODU's stadium after renovation is only going to seat 22k people. That's slightly more than half the capacity of Wallace Wade in Durham, and we routinely rip on that stadium for being pathetically small. We're too big of a name to be playing in a 22k seat stadium every other year by choice. There aren't many P5 programs who aren't too big for that.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

I don't mind playing at a football stadium the size of a Texas high school football stadium once every two years if it helps us with recruiting. Of course we have to win those games, but the other regional G5 teams we could play don't come from very fertile recruiting grounds (i.e. ECU, Liberty, Marshall, etc.).

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

I'm curious to see how a series like this impacts us financially vs. scheduling one off games. Getting games on the schedule for a low price is the only justifiable reason I can think of to shackle ourselves to a G5 team again.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

god that image makes me want to throw up

Seems like Galen Scott really likes the possibilities of working with ODU's recruit's moms

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

This seems like a decent move for ODU. Their big trouble has always been defense, even back in FCS. Their big drop off in wins came because they couldn't rely on their offense to just outscore everybody once they ran into more talented defenses.

While I hope they lose to the Hokies, I have no problem with them beating UVA and hope they crush Liberty.

Stinespring can recruit, odu will get better, possibly at our expense from the 757

meh.

JP

I like this bit from the article while the article gives no context to why Scott is on the market:

If someone had told me during Bobby Wilder & Old Dominion's first season in 2009 that he would be adding Virginia Tech's former offensive coordinator and Bud Foster's former co-defensive coordinator I would have had a hard time believing that; but here we are. Tip of the cap to the way Wilder has built, and runs, his program.

I am not saying a guy doesn't deserve a second chance, it's just the article never mentions why Scott is not at Tech and frames his hiring by ODU as big win.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

You've got to build that hype somehow, and creating a narrative where these are somehow huge steals from VT certainly lends itself to that.

Well, and sometimes the only way you find good stuff you can afford is at Goodwill.

These guys have a bit of tarnish on them for various reasons, but it doesn't mean they aren't great pickups for ODU at a price point they can afford. It gives the coaches a chance to rehab their image and gives ODU an opportunity to have some guys they probably couldn't afford otherwise.

edit: and I don't say this to disparage ODU's program. They just aren't in the same place as an ACC program right now when it comes to funds or hiring.

Wonder what would've happened if Beamer promoted Kevin Rogers to OC (in addition to his duties as QBs coach) instead of Stiney, & just kept Stiney as TE plus O-Line coach & recruiter🤔🤔🤔

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Uva swallows

I think it's good for the program. ODU has been historically bad on defense. Wilder has potential for top offenses when they have experienced players. Being in the 757, I selfishly like the series.

I'm not too worried about recruiting. They may be in the same state, but I wouldn't say it's in the same circles. I can just speak for ODU, others with more knowledge may disagree.

I agree. Ever since ODU restarted the program, the chance that they were going to steal away recruits was low. They might get a guy here or there who wants to stay close to home or has some other connection, but for the most part they are going to get guys who weren't going to go to VT or UVA anyway and occasionally stumble into a diamond in the rough.

I maybe in the minority, but I think stinespring is a good coach. As the oline coach he was pretty good. Beamer said he was a fantastic X's and O's coach, and I dont doubt that. Where he lacked was play calling. His plays worked, they players executed, his decision of what to call when was questionable. I think he should get lots of jobs but never play calling.

I agree, but we are in the minority.

I especially thought he was a good OL coach. The big mistake was moving him off OL when we hired Newsome, who only had one year OL coaching experience at JMU.

He wasn't a great OC, but Beamer and Bud wanted him to be a clock eater. He became the fall guy for being too conservative but it was a systemic approach IMO.

Would we have still gotten Tyrod without Newsome? I heard they were close..

I'd like to think so.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Probably not. But we would have been better off putting Newsome at TE's where he could do less damage and keeping Stiney at OL.

Newsome and Tyrod's dad played together in college if my memory serves.

Go back through french's pieces from back then. Not only were a lot of issues in play design AND play calls, but there was no identity. Were we a spread team? A power run team? Did we play ball control (some people would say yes, but there were multiple drives where we tried to kill the clock, and we'd snap the ball with 10 seconds left on the play clock).

Fuente is clearly struggling to implement his vision, but he has a vision for the offense he wants to run (at least he says so) and the recruits he is targeting (See success in OL and WR, and RB targets). Steinspring was throwing darts at the board when it came to play design and play calling.

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That was the same problem with Loeffler as well. Maybe the issue wasn't with the OC but the style of offense the head coach wanted those OCs to run....

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Personally, I don't think the issue with Lefty was identity or play calling, I think he failed miserably at implementation. He had a vision, his route trees were structured well, he just wanted to give college kids an NFL playbook. It's just not realistic.

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