Fuente and Staff

This season is finally over.

I'm holding out my full "burn everything fire everybody" for after next season. But...

I've never seen a Foster defense not tackle like this year.

The open receivers all season was unbearable.

Fuente needs to answer his offensive lack of execution, reads, and play calling. He was brought here for his offense, and it's not showing, especially in year 3.

So, what changes need to be made? What changes need to be addressed in the staff. I'm not impressed with the defense at all this year. I expect a change on defense.

What are your thoughts?

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

Too Soon

What do you mean "too soon"? It's not like someone died and we're trying to replace him before he's in the ground. Nothing he said was wrong, and we'll have to talk about it eventually.

Today's play calling was fine until it mattered. Then the staff dialed up some unnecessary roll out, power-I nonsense.

The tackling was abysmal. The middle of the defense was softer than baby shit.

Putting off this discussion reeks of complacency.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

I mean it's too soon to have a rational discussion about something like that 2 minutes after the game was lost.

But proceed, governor.

That's fair. I try to be rational with most of my comments on this site and I stand behind my thoughts on today's shortcomings. As for solving those problems, I'm not sure. A new OC surely couldn't hurt.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

We lost a very close game, mostly on execution, not play calling.

But the topics you mention are worthy of discussion. It will make more sense after people calm down and can consider today's results in the context of a bigger picture.

I don't disagree that execution cost us that game. The tackling was dreadful. Probably some of the worst I've seen this year. McClease missed blocks in the backfield that forced Willis into bad throws or uncomfortable scrambles. But my biggest gripe is that despite poor execution, the kids on the field still put themselves in a position to win the ball game and piss poor play calling cost them on a key 4th down.

Judging by the state of the other threads on here, you're probably right to wait to have these discussions. Let the boozing commence. Cheers. Happy new year.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I only up voted you because of this...

Let the boozing commence. Cheers. Happy new year.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

Food for thought:

There were open receivers on that 4th down play. Willis is capable of making that throw.

So how was it a playcalling problem?

That said, cheers, and happy new year!

It rolled Willis into the pressure off the edge and the pressure bungled the play fake. (caveat: this is based solely on memory as I'm not in a position to rewatch the play). I'm sure there was an execution issue in picking up that blitz, but why call the play when it's 4th and 1 and Holston was gashing them between the tackles?

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

Nope. Rewatch the play. Willis just tripped himself up on a standard roll of the pocket we've seen him do dozens of times this season. Just a fluke.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I'll take a link, if anyone has it. Regardless, I still stand by my position that running between the tackles is the better play call.

edit: Bitter posted the video on Twitter. will gladly take embedding help here. It is apparent that Cincy is bringing two off the right side. Left guard is uncovered. I'd go zone left there every day over the play fake and rollout into the pressure like that. I will acknowledge that if he keeps his feet, he probably hits Keane in the flat for the first.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

Watching the replay that Bitter posted, I have to disagree with everyone who says that Keene was "wide open" or that he easily would scored on that play. #32 for Cinci is in pretty good position to make the tackle or even pick off the pass if Willis doesn't throw the ball far enough outside. Even with a perfect pass, it's 50/50 that Keene gets the 1st down, much less actually scoring.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Keene's open early, Hazelton later. Based on the pass rush, I think he's trying to plant his foot and hit Keene while right away while he's open. He just tripped on the wet grass, couldn't plant his leg.

🦃 🦃 🦃

At a minimum, it was a viable play call.

Yup, this. Play calling continues to be the red herring of this season. May she rest in peace.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

After watching the replay countless times:
- viable? Yes
- should Willis have audibled out of it? Hell yes

Both blitzers came right through and Willis had no chance at anything positive once that ball was snapped with that play called.

I disagree. Rolling the pocket was to account for the blitz. It would have given Willis enough time to make a throw if he doesn't trip over his own feet.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I also disagree.

If Willis isn't fumbling around with the ball, he has time to make that throw. Would have to be quick, but doable. It would have to have been executed well, but that's the nature of 4th and 1.

I don't see that as a play you can say "fire the OC" over.

Nope. Rewatch the play. Willis just tripped himself up on a standard roll of the pocket we've seen him do dozens of times this season. Just a fluke.

Forcing your QB to execute that roll-out and make the pass in those conditions was unwise on 4th and 1, though. That's why so many of us hate that play call. You're adding unnecessary risk to the equation. We had been running the ball up the middle with much success in that second half. We only needed a yard to move the chains and set up first and goal inside the 2. A QB sneak or inside run would have almost certainly succeeded. Corn-Fu tried to get too cute, IMHO.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

And if they had run it up the middle and gotten stuffed people would be yelling "I thought we hired an offensive guru to come up with something better!" Etc etc

I'm sorry, but if people are actually going to argue that rolling the pocket is an unnecessary risk, there is simply nothing to discuss anymore. Corn critics will find something to nitpick on every playcall.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Snapping the ball is an unnecessary risk. The center should just pick it up and plow forwards.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Is that legal

Recruit Prosim

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Exactly my thought. Leg for you.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I think that unless it is fumbled, there is some weird rule that a lineman has to establish himself by turning 180 degrees from the line prior to being an eligible ball carrier. I only know this because our youth team wanted to run a pulling guard off tackle play and to be legal the guard would have to open up opposite the pulling direction and rotate around to take the handoff. We never ran it. It was going to be a gimmick anyway as a reward for our lineman.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Ahem...the play is called annexation of puerto rico:

Let's Go

HOKIES

You're mischaracterizing my argument. The unnecessary risk is calling a passing play there. A run play has fewer opportunities for error. We had been running the ball effectively all half. We also had QP suited up on the sideline with a one more game available to him without burning a redshirt. Running the ball would have been less risky, and more likely to succeed. We didn't need a TD on that play. We only needed one yard to set up a first and goal inside the 2 or 3.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

As bad as we've been at running this year, if that gets stuffed, the coaches would have been lambasted for "calling another conservative run"

the only reason people are talking about that play is because it didn't work

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Perhaps the outrage regarding play call is that Fuente/Corn have a horrendous success rate on critical short yardage play calls generally. The bowl game was the latest awful attempt to convert. These are just a few of the maddening play call/execution I could remember off the top of my head. And, yes, I'm in the camp that attributes repeated execution failures to the coaching staff.

Clemson 2017
4th & 3 at CLEM 47
(5:23 - 3rd) Josh Jackson pass complete to Sean Savoy for a loss of 5 yards to the VTech 48

Miami 2017
4th & 2 at MIAMI 32
(7:59 - 3rd) TEAM run for a loss of 7 yards to the MiaFl 39 TEAM fumbled, recovered by VTech Josh Jackson

4th & 3 at MIAMI 34
(0:38 - 3rd) Josh Jackson pass intercepted Jaquan Johnson return for 20 yds to the MiaFl 44

OKST 2017
1st & Goal at OKST 1
(10:40 - 2nd) Josh Jackson run for a loss of 8 yards to the OKSt 9 Josh Jackson fumbled, recovered by OKSt Ramon Richards , return for 3 yds to the OKSt 12

3rd & 2 at OKST 29
(9:22 - 4th) Josh Jackson pass intercepted Darius Curry return for 30 yds to the VTech 46

FSU 2018
4th & Goal at FSU 1
(0:44 - 3rd) Steven Peoples run for no gain to the FlaSt 1

ND 2018
1st & Goal at ND 1
(4:58 - 2nd) Steven Peoples run for no gain to the NDame 1

2nd & Goal at ND 1
(4:20 - 2nd) Steven Peoples run for no gain to the NDame 1

3rd & Goal at ND 1
(3:30 - 2nd) Ryan Willis run for a loss of 4 yards to the NDame 5

There you go. The 4 plays from earlier this year are all runs for no gain or a loss. They finally do a rollout pass, and that's not good enough, either.

damned if you run. damned if you pass

Maybe the issue isn't the calls but the execution.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

The botched 3rd down vs ND was not supposed to be a run. It was Ryan Willis from under center, intending to run a play action boot. He ran into Peoples and then got sacked, so it's recorded as a run. That terrible play appeared to be quite similar to the terrible play run vs Cincinnati.

I don't disagree with the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" perspective--I think that's fair. I just think people objecting to the play call in this situation may be sick of seeing repeated failures in similar situations (and by "people," maybe it's just me). When it's a recurring problem over multiple years, I assign most of the blame to the coaches.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Of those four plays this year, only one was a 4th down, and it was 4th and goal. I've got no problem with the playcalling on that ND series. I thought it was pretty well thought out and poorly executed. Although, as mentioned below, the sack on 3rd down was a designed pass. The 4th down vs. FSU example is also not analogous because it was 4th and goal. If you were going to go for it, you had to reach paydirt. This particular play vs. Cincy was egregious because the coaching staff (in my opinion) got too cute and too aggressive, and it probably cost us that game. All they had to do was run for one yard to set up 1st and goal inside the 2, on an afternoon where the running game was working pretty damned well. This would have enabled them to eat a little more clock while punching in the likely game-sealing TD. Attempting a pass play in that weather introduced more risk than was necessary or advisable.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

That's recall bias. They've also had some brilliant ones too. In the Cincy game itself, I recall 3 right off the top of my head - two that went for TDs. The rollout pass to Cunningham, the rollout keeper, and end-around to Tre.

Our coaches do design some great plays and usually call a good game. I would argue the timeout before that call was the biggest blunder cause we had that D gassed, backed up, and on their heels. And that's my primary criticism of Fuente and Cornelson. We never seem to have the ability to seize the moment and ride the wave of momentum that occurs at all levels of sports. Cornelson is light years ahead of Stiney in play calling but Stiney, who is much more emotional, got this. And I think that contributed to a lot of our success. Similar situation was a turnover in our final game against Miami for the ACC title. Immediately following the turnover - 1st play BR to Royal for the game clinching score. Perfect time to strike.

Seems to me that if you're going to do that analysis, you need to include all short yardage plays.

I'm pretty sure we've had some successful ones as well, but for some reason nobody here remembers those.

100% agree. The comments on this play are too simplistic and ignore all the play-action plays that have worked in short yardage due to similar dynamics. You can't have it both ways.

Those were simply the plays that I vividly remember from the past two years against some of the better competition, in what seemed to me to be higher-leverage, more critical situations. I was able to pull them quickly because I remember them being screwed up so badly. I don't have time to check the play-by-play for every short yardage situation since Fuente arrived. If you think Fuente/Corn has succeeded more than they've failed in those type of situations, then more power to you. I respectfully disagree.

Those were simply the plays that I vividly remember

If you think Fuente/Corn has succeeded more than they've failed in those type of situations, then more power to you. I respectfully disagree.

That's fine, but I looked it up. Virginia Tech went for it on 4th down 27 times. They converted 15 times, which is a percentage of about 56%.

Doesn't account for context (i.e., field position, time in game, opponent etc.), but 4th down conversion percentage rankings under Fuente: 52nd in 2016, 101st in 2017, and 50th in 2018. Not lighting the world on fire.

those numbers are closely aligned with the S&P Offense for those years:
51st in 2016, 96th in 2017, and 44th in 2018.
Link

This suggests that the 4th down efficiency was essentially a result of how good the offense was that year.

🦃 🦃 🦃

The context of your examples is "a handful of plays I can think of and care to mention".

The context of my data was "all the plays where they went for it on 4th down in 2018".

Nobody is claiming the offense is lighting the world on fire, and anyone measuring by that standard is misguided. I would point out, however, that the numbers you mention show improvement, and I would expect an even bigger improvement next year.

Your lone stat of VT's 2018 4th down conversion percentage doesn't really provide any context. By context, I mean time, score, quality of opponent, game flow etc. Fuente called a timeout in the Military Bowl before blowing the 4th down because that play was critically important given the time and score. Notice how he didn't call timeout before a 4th down play on VT's first drive when the score was 0-0? Quality of opponent matters a lot as well. When you're trying to punch above your weight against a Clemson or Notre Dame (hell, even Miami the past 2 years), the significance of those play calls is amplified--they are much more critical than they would be against lesser competition when possessions and points don't come at such a premium.

I'm not going to sit here and write up a comprehensive analysis for every short yardage call in Fuente's tenure. So yes, I provided a handful of plays that I recall being more influential in key games against some of the better competition to illustrate that the botched Military Bowl play was nothing new under Fuente. This is an area that, to me, needs improvement. You can fan boy the coaches and call me out for cherry picking stats, but you haven't provided anything in support of Fuente other than one year's 4th down conversion percentage. And, that stat, in reality, shows that VT is, at best, mediocre in this area. Some constructive scrutiny and setting expectations higher than just mediocre should be something we can all get behind.

Yes, I called you out for cherry picking your stats, and no, you haven't provided any comprehensive analysis. That was, in fact, my point. What's constructive about the type of scrutiny you're providing? Because I'm not really seeing it.

I don't think there's a person here who thinks this was a good year of VT football. Not one. So trying to pretend this is setting expectations higher than mediocre is a fail. We all have higher expectations.

I'm making two statements. First, I'm saying that if you're going to make a claim based on the data, your data has to be comprehensive in some way. Second, I'm willing to give Fuente the time he needs to rebuild the program. This wasn't a 3 year rebuild. Probably not even a four year rebuild. Football is more of an aircraft carrier than a speedboat. There's nothing "fan boy" about understanding that.

Yes, I'm trying to tell you that your expectations are out of line. How long did Beamer coach at VT before he won more than six games in a season? Seven. What was his record the year before that? 2-8-1. Yet we have people claiming that VT should settle for no fewer than 10 wins next year.

VT's football success has come through patience and consistency. That was true under Beamer, and I believe that's true under Fuente. But we'll only find that out if we stay the course long enough to let him get the job done.

Great post. thank you for compiling the numbers. So the plays you listed for 2018, either those teams knew those plays before hand, or we can't get a push up front. We have had this issue off and on since Lee Suggs graduated, so I'm guessing we weren't tipping our plays to FSU and ND.

Never thought about tipping plays, but certainly seems possible with competent scouting of VT's short yardage offense. Things have to get even more predictable when we go under center. How many different types of plays did VT run from under center all year? Very few, right? Can you count them on one hand? Inside power run, QB sneak, play action roll right pass with Keene short option and Cunningham deeper option? Going under center would certainly seem to key the defense in on a very small number of potential plays if they had done any homework at all. Perhaps with perfect execution the play could have worked against Cincinnati, but the coaches likely put the players in a disadvantage from the jump.

You mean on a short yardage play, we have run with rb, sneaked with qb, threw short, and threw intermediate....and we are predictable?

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Yes, when you're in a formation that you operate out of maybe once a game, and your options from that formation can be reduced to two between-the-tackles run plays and one play action pass (which cuts the field in half by rolling the QB to the same side every time), that's the definition of predictable.

And yet when we run a play from shotgun the OC is crucified...sometimes players need to make the play. There isn't many more options from under center than what has already been shown. Frankly, the formation only exists to allow for a qb sneak...the other options are just to keep the defense honest.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Felt like the Seahawks v Patriots

Recruit Prosim

Thanks Dad

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

He'll be gone by next year when we go 3-9 with our 3* players.

If you post it enough times it may just come true.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

ODU came true

You're officially on report.

Just kidding, that's not a thing, but deep down I suspect you of being a closet UVa fan.

My mom did go to UVA :(

So did my sister (there is a black sheep in every family) but I love her anyway.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

Told ya it was too soon.

I agree that this isn't really the time to start this thread. Regardless, there won't be any changes after this season.

So when exactly are we allowed to talk about VT football and obvious issues around the program on a VT message board?

when you come with fact and reason.

Opinions based on emotion are fine, but it's empty if it's not backed up with facts and numbers.

🦃 🦃 🦃

We lost to ODU this year...handily...
Fact.

We got manhandled by GT and Pitt to a level that was laughable...Fact.

In multiple key points this year, the in-game decision making was questionable at best...Fact.

Our tackling was indescribably awful all year and despite four weeks of extra practice wasnt a stitch better today...Fact.

And while overall, our Recruiting is on a slight uptrend we mostly patched-up our glaring holes CB and DT, rather than getting guys who project as longterm difference makers. We also signed almost no DE..leaving an obvious void for the future...Fact.

Sometimes the results speak for themselves.

Those aren't facts or numbers. They're opinions.

Good God..
That's the entire point. Some things dont need numbers, but here is one for you...

14.7

that was Olisons AVERAGE YARD PER CARRY against us.

Now please tell me everything is all good and headed in the right direction.

I'd bet that there isn't a person here who thinks all is good and is happy with today's result.

While I am not happy with the result I am satisfied by the fact that this team didn't give up the way they had against teams like Pitt and Georgia Tech. I do not fault the play calling on the 4th Down in the red zone because the object of the game is to win and a touchdown would have done that. The execution just wasn't there on that play. Even if we do not scored the touchdown on that play, if we had been able to milk another minute-and-a-half off the clock Cincinnati may not have had the time needed to score the game-winning touchdown.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

tbf, there are facts mixed with emotional opinion. So, we got something.

The D was bad this year, especially against the run. That starts with lack of healthy and dependable D-linemen in the 2-deep.

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Didn't you know, there's about 7 people who police TKP. They should set up a PM system so that you guys can ask their permission/test the feel of your comments before posting.

LOL got a kick out of that comment.

Go Hokies! Fuck it. In 8 hours it will be 2019

I'm pretty sure we let you do that in every thread.

Let thekeyplay.com crowd-source the play calling next year. We got this!

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

My favorite play call.

I always go Y or A.

Pour some Beer on it

X or B are open at about 12 yards when they run cover 2.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

It always works in NCAA14

Nah.

Doesn't matter if we don't crowd-source tackling. Maybe with all of us we have a chance of bringing down a ball carrier hit at the line of scrimmage.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Since our play calling will be calculated by an algorithm based on the input from all of us combined, and due to the fact that we will all have to rely on watchespn.com for a visual of what is actually going on, I am now second-guessing my suggestion.

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

We got all off-season and a possible exciting Basketball season and you want everyone here to make this call two seconds after a rough loss after a rough football season? Yeah I can't wait for these ideas.

Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tach goes into the red and reads 9000 RPMs, that's bad!

If you're referencing a basketball season on a football thread,...that sounds like a problem.

Last off season was terrible

Recruit Prosim

What are your thoughts?

Nix and Mitchell need to go. Cornelson shouldn't have ever been hired to take full responsibility as OC - he's grossly inexperienced and unprepared.

In reality, maybe Mitchell or Nix is let go, and judging by Fuente's history of making hires, going to be a very uninspiring replacement.

Wow already dismissing a tentative hire before it even happens is another level.
He will obviously never do anything right in your eyes

VB born, class of '14

I'm not getting my hopes up, that's all. Talent is a serious issue with the program, and it doesn't seem like the necessary investment is being made into capable recruiters. Mitchell and Nix were never good recruiters, it's Lech's only job and he's learning on the job, and outside of maybe Vice, the guys from Memphis aren't getting it done.

I want a HC who can make a tough decision, and if that requires you to fire your buddy and replace him with someone who gives us a better chance of winning, so be it. It's part of the job. I'm not sure we've got that.

O boy it's time for the "hire someone better argument" without explaining: who, for what pay.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

So you're the one who always talks about how much bigger the recruiting staffs are elsewhere. You don't think there is any recruiting analyst or sr support staff at UGA, OSU, Bama who would take $175k/yr?

Yep, at 175k, of course the only choice little ol VT had was the guy that used to babysit Fuente's kids. Literally no other options we could have afforded

Based on what?

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

We went 19-8 in two seasons under Fuente. It seems to me that you (and many others) are projecting your grievances over Beamer's tenure on Fuente prematurely. What exactly has led you to decide Fuente isn't a "HC who can make a tough decision, and if that requires you to fire your buddy and replace him with someone who gives us a better chance of winning"?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Cornelsen is not a good OC. I don't think he's got the credentials to be a top 25 caliber OC on paper, and 3 years into it, our offense is still bad on the field. Beyond that he's a ZERO when it comes to recruiting.

The 19-8 number is great, but we were still relying on Bud to win us games - exactly what we were told we wouldn't need anymore. Look how god awful we were this year with a bad defense. The offense is still incapable of covering us. Year 4 and we're hoping we've got an ACC-caliber back signed this year in King, but still don't have any idea who will be QB.

Our offense scored 31 points today.

The most scored against Cincinnati in any game this year other than UCF.

UCF scored 38... but you're right the offense wasn't the problem

Yeah, updated that just before you caught it, but you're right, and the point stands.

And anyone with half a brain would look at more than 1 data point.

Which is why I added one more for you to consider.

The offense HAS improved under Fuente, while the defense has regressed. I see room for improvement on both offense and defense.

Trying to blame the loss today on Cornelson seems like misplaced energy.

I literally have not tried to blame today's loss on Cornelsen once.
Again, using a single game or data point is irresponsible. (Un)fortunately, we've got 3 years to go on. The offense has never been what we were promised when Fuente was hired, we have an OC who struggles to get out of his own way, who struggles to playcall and make adjustments in-game, hasn't developed a QB, and has no idea how to recruit. Aside from Tre, I'm not sure where you can point at our offense and be sure it will make significant strides next year, either. Virginia Tech shouldn't be a place for on the job training for one of Fuente's buddies. Corn was a pretty egregious hire from the beginning and after year 3, I think it's fair to say he's not ready for (what used to be) a top 25 program. It has nothing to do with this single game

Edit: this sub thread has gone down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I want to be clear, priorities 1a and 1b are replacing Mitchell and Nix. Corn is in over his head and needs to be looked at very closely, especially if winning the conference and making the playoff is a goal of this program.

Why don't we start with what you like about the program, and work from there. Will save a lot of time.

The reason I started with THAT data point is because it's the game we just played, and there was nothing wrong with the playcalling in that one, from what I can tell. So why would we replace the OC?

The conversation is simple. Do we like Fuente or not? I say the jury is still out, and that he hasn't had a fair trial period yet. What say you?

Unless JJ starts next year at QB.. most of the significant contributors on the team will be Fuente recruits.. time to put up next year. No excuse for terrible losses or getting run over by bad/mediocre coastal teams. No excuses next year. That's my take. If we give up 13 yards a play to 7-7 Pitt next year I'm ready to move on from CJF

So the defense bad again is on the HC not the DC?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yep. That's how it works. If there are not good enough players at VT to hold 7-7 Pitt to under 11 yards a play, the HC didn't close on enough good players in recruiting. If the defense can't handle odu in any phase of the game, the HC needs to fix that at half time or demand adjustments. Fuente is not our OC, he is the head coach

Question is which head coach - based on the lack of seniority it's the former coach not the current. If that is the case in 2 years it's a different story.

LOL- Frank Beamer was at his lake house when Pitt was running for record numbers right between the tackles. This season is on Fuente. Frank is walking his dog and drinking milkshakes. Fuente makes nearly 4 mil per. He needs to figure out a way to not give up 700 yards to ODU while Frank is on his golf cart.

Frank is drinking milkshakes at home because all the milk was gone in the pantry of VT football. Your points are valid, your context is lacking. Fuente does need to address these things as does Foster but largely it is a product of years of poor recruiting and nearly bottoming out before a new head whistle came in.

I'm not complaining about Fuente losing games. I'm complaining about the way he lost to crappy and mediocre teams this season. Pitt finished 7-7, and we did not belong on the field with them in any way. At the end of the Beamer era, did a .500 ACC team ever blow us out like that? nope- even when Beamer couldn't talk he was not giving up 700 yards to ODU or getting steamrolled by GT and Pitt- never- even at the end. This year's team had major major issues- and that is not on Frank Beamer. Hell if Beamer hadn't signed Ricky Walker, Kyle Chung, Reggie Floyd and Stephen Peoples, it would have been even worse. To put any of the institutional stink for this year on Beamer is not fair at all.

What does this even mean. Yes if we had zero upper classmen it would be worse than the few we do have. There is also not an effing thing Fuente could control about that. You act as if the previous regime should have no blame for the lack of senior talent and yet blame Fuente for not being able to fill those gaps with underclassmen. You cant have it both ways.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

again.... Fuente and his bare cupboard of (90% of his best players thus far) left by Beamer, losing games is not the issue. Being non competitive against mediocre acc teams and losing to awful G5 teams has ZERO to do with not having 25 top level juniors and seniors is the issue. something besides Frank Beamer is wrong with the program right now. Beamer took a 11 win UNC team to OT his very last home game as coach- he didn't give up 13 yards a play to Pitt. You can't say Beamer left the cupboard bare when his very last team was more competitive than this one. Can't have it both ways.

I'm not assigning any direct blame to Beamer, but he was winning in his final year with recruits from several years prior. The void was left by those recruits at the end of his tenure. Recruiting on general dropped with uncertainty in Frank's future. Additionally, some of his best recruits are gone now for other reasons (Mook, Adonis, Hill, etc.). There is also no need to pretend like 0-0 Wake or JMU didnt happen under Beamer (and he is in the HOF).

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Hot take: if it wasn't DC saying this there wouldn't be as much disagreement.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Fact.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Not me, I actually agree with DC often

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

To put any of the institutional stink for this year on Beamer is not fair at all.

again you seem to be lacking context. for one, I am a huge Beamer supporter. But in relation to this, you answered your own query with this:

Hell if Beamer hadn't signed Ricky Walker, Kyle Chung, Reggie Floyd and Stephen Peoples, it would have been even worse.

That's 4 players. We are only 3 years out. There should be a bevy of seniors rs-seniors, juniors and rs-junior on this team not just contributing or adding depth but leading. Now go look at the depth we have and the players that are starting/contributing this season. That chasm you see was caused by the dearth in recruiting during Beamer's final years and a large amount of attrition due to off the field issues. Even if the Edmundi had stayed that's still just 6 players.

Exactly. You can reverse the argument too easily as the context is more broad. If Fuente didn't bring in Willis, all the receivers, darrisaw, dax and the young players who made bigger contributions it would also be worse. This is why building a program is a process and takes time especially at a place like VT where player development matters big time.

Frank's last 4 years were the definition of mediocre. To pretend 0-0, losing to weak coastal teams etc didn't consistently happen is just being in denial. We lost to a Duke team that couldn't complete a pass in one half our offense was so inept. That doesn't mean we didn't have a few players, but as a rule we had less and less in each class and it started to catch up with them as previous players aged out/left. Just like building a program up takes time the downward trend does take time as well. I think you have seen it bottom as there is no way this off-season is worse than last.

If Frank's last classes weren't mediocre in aggregate (this is NOT an absolute statement as obviously Walker, People's and others were players) then why do we have 6 scholarship seniors one year and 8 the next? All of those players are Frank's classes that had ~24 players per class. The players that aren't here anymore weren't good or couldn't cut it with the couple of NFL draft exceptions (Edmunds and Settle).

I don't care who is the coach if we have a 2 deep with 38 underclassmen again we won't be good. 18-19 year olds playing against 21-23 year olds will lose more often than not.

Last point - if in 1-2 years the talent we have recruited isn't showing improvement it's a different discussion.

Not beamers fault that they got into trouble or left for the draft. Beamer has the edmunds, settle, mook, Adonis, and Hill for Fuente

Recruit Prosim

Your missing the point and really only talking about a handful of guys.

It is year 3. Where are the Rs-Soph, Soph, RS-Freshman and Freshman from Beamer's last year that should be leading this team as seniors and juniors now? The issue has been that once scratched skin deep we had nobody to fill depth behind the handful of contributors that you mention. We are starting true freshman and our team is almost entirely Fuente's recruits. That is the issue that was created and why it's taking longer to rebuild.

I'm not blaming Beamer for that because his good far out weighs this issue. It certainly isn't his legacy. At the same time, I am realistic enough to recognize the problem for what it is.

Those are those players dude.

Only talking about a handful of guys

That handful is 2 first rounders, 4 currently in the NFL and the other 2 may go as well depending. Hill certainly. No team has depth at a senior level. The teams that have depth rely on talented underclassmen that can fill in.

Recruit Prosim

Beg to differ on depth at a senior or even upper classman level. Look at Texas - 27 seniors courtesy or Charlie Strong and everyone loves Tom Herman. Tom certainly knows how to use the talent, but the team was built mainly by Charlie.

We have 14 over 2 years. That's the difference - you can't build a football team/program without spaced out depth. Every situation is unique and VT fans don't want to admit how bad the last 2-3 recruiting cycles were under Frank. I know I didn't.

No team has depth at a senior level. The teams that have depth rely on talented underclassmen that can fill in.

this is what was missing on Beamer's team when he retired. It's why we have the problem we face now. Several players over 4 years of play (rs-Soph, soph, rs-fresh, fresh) are not enough. That's the point. The cupboard was laid bare and Fuente had to fill it.

There is a reason why we are playing almost all underclassmen, and this is it.

There are allegations that Bud is not being given full reign

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And I'm not sure I trust those allegations. I don't have a lot of insight into day to day but I've been around the team up close for the spring game and in Fuente's first year for picture day and I didn't get that impression at all.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Saying "the offense wasn't what was promised" is complete nonsense. That statement literally means nothing and only reflects your personal expectations. As many have pointed out, the offense is light years better than it was under Loeffler and previous OCs, despite being forced to start a different QB every season.

Also I think it's hilarious that you keep saying Cornelsen wasn't ready for a top 25 program when VT had been ranked in top 25 for a total of 6 weeks over the last four years under Beamer and didn't finish a single season ranked. We've been ranked for 23 weeks total over the last three seasons and finished the season ranked in both 2016 and 2017. But yeah Cornelsen is the reason for the demise of what was once a perreniel top 25 program. Give me a break. Your expectations and image of the program isn't grounded in reality.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Fuente literally said when he was hired that VT wouldn't need to rely on Bud and the defense to win games. That hasn't been the case. We've been relying on the D just as much as we did under Frank. Even with a terrible defense, we should be able to put up more than 35 on ODU, 14 vs a bad Miami, or 22 vs Pitt

If you don't think VT is a top 25 program, I dont' know what to tell you. Clearly there were down years at the end of Frank's career, which is part of why we've got a new coach, but up to then, we had a 20+ year run as one of the winningest programs in CFB. I'm not sure why in terms of looking at the program, we're looking at the last 3 years to say 'hey it's not that bad' and ignoring the last 25-30.

I've said many times Nix and Mitchell need to go, so stating 'Cornelsen is the reason for the demise of what was once a perreniel [sic] top 25 program' is extremely misleading. I think he lacks the experience we should expect when hiring an OC. He was a D-II coordinator and was a co-coordinator at a bad G5 program where he wasn't even calling the plays. For a program who has playoff aspirations (maybe you don't think we do), that's not a strong resume. He's proven he's not a Chad Morris on the trail or in the booth, so I don't think his leash should be as long as it seems to be.

Lastly, 'offense better than Loeffler's' is a pretty low bar to judge success in my eyes, so you're right, it is likely our expectations of the program differ significantly.

There's a difference between relying on a defense to win games, and trying to win games with a marginal defense.

VT had enough points to win games this year, if VT had a reasonable defense.

Just a reminder:

We ran just as many desperation called QB draws against Cincy Monday as we did in that Wake disaster. The offense still has a LONG way to go, IMO.

The offense does have a ways to go, but my point is that the offense has already come a long way since a zero-zero tie in regulation with Wake Forest.

I'd make the argument that we need even more improvement on the defensive side.

Fuente has made some demonstrable improvement in the offense.

We scored 31 points in regulation against a very good Cinci D. And we did that with our backup QB. (yeah, people keep forgetting that Willis was the backup this year)

The offense is progressing just fine. If we had the ability to make the tackle, we'd have won easily. Given your history, I'm surprised this is the current hill you're choosing to die on for the 2018 retrospective.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

The offense has a long way to go. - nothing to do with "my history".. jesus. If you would like to dispute that opinion with scoring 31 points on Cincy- fine leave it at your one data point. Great. And Clemson is playing for a national championship with their "backup QB" using your logic.

The fact you just tried to compare Willis to Trevor Lawrence to prove why Fuente sucks is all I need to see.

I think we're done here. Good day, sir.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

He's got a valid point. Willis is no more a "backup QB" at this point in the season than Trevor Lawrence is. Yes, they started the seasons as backup, but they've both started more than half the season at their respective schools, and can't really be considered the backup at this point.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Trevor Lawrence was the no. 1 QB recruit of his class. Willis walked on at VT after walking away from a scholarship at Kansas

right, but the point was that both started the season "as the backup". 8 consecutive starts doesn't make you the backup any more.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I really don't get this line of reasoning. Trevor Lawrence was named the starting QB by the coach. Willis came in after the starting QB was injured. One became the starter by coach's choice, the other one due to injury to the coach's QB of choice. When you aren't the coach's first choice at QB, you are the "back up."

How dare you bring facts into the conversation.

not all backs up are the same and not all back ups are back ups for the same reason. each individual situation is different. Jackson may have only been named the starter because of playbook knowledge "at the start of the season", Kelly Bryant was named the starter at the beginning of the season if you remember correctly, no one really called jaylen hurts the "back up" when he came in and won the SEC championship earlier this year. Who do you consider the back up at UM this season? both Perry and Rozier lost that job through out the year. Back up is just a term, it really holds little to no weight in my opinion in the argument for VT and QB play because or situation is unique to us and I don't consider Ryan Willis at this point in his career a back up, just like if josh didn't start next year and Ryan Willis did and he got hurt in game 2 I wouldn't give anyone any excuses or passes because our "back up QB was in" if it was Josh Jackson.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

You're right not all back ups are the same....So what are you really mad about? Are you mad our 2 deep at QB isn't two 4/5 star QBs? I'd love to have Trevor Lawrence or Jaylen Hurts in our 2 deep....comparing those QBs to Willis is laughable. No one considered Trevor Lawrence a "back up" because he was the #1 QB recruit in the nation and no one called Hurts a back up because he was the starter the year prior! Willis is a walk on transfer from Kansas!

Just because someone starts a majority of games in a season doesn't make them talented enough to be a good starting QB for a D1 program. So the real question would be is Willis talented enough to be a consistent D1 starter? My opinion would be no, considering he couldn't hold the job at Kansas and was a walk on transfer here. That is not to say he hasn't played well here as a starter. He has done well. But HE WAS the backup until JJ got hurt which is a fact and his ceiling at QB is not the level VT needs to have consistent successful seasons and it certainly isn't the ceiling of Trevor Lawrence or Jaylen Hurts.

So what are you really mad about? Are you mad our 2 deep at QB isn't two 4/5 star QBs? I'd love to have Trevor Lawrence or Jaylen Hurts in our 2 deep....comparing those QBs to Willis is laughable.

im not mad about anything. im just stating facts, you only acknowledged the 2 QBs who are playing in the national championship in my post. I didn't only compare them. both FSU and UM had similar situations over the last 2 years and I mentioned that as well. To say no one considered Lawrence the back up because he was the #1 QB in the country is Ludacris to me. If that was the case Justin Fields wouldn't be transferring would he? I don't consider anyone a back up after 3 or 4 games started specially if they are putting up #s on par with or better than the previous starter.

So the real question would be is Willis talented enough to be a consistent D1 starter? My opinion would be no, considering he couldn't hold the job at Kansas and was a walk on transfer here

Im not sure why Willis walked on here, the connection he had with the coaches, im sure he could have been a scholarship player at another D1 school instead of coming here but the fact is hes on scholly here now. Micheal brewer lost his job at a D1 school and was the "STARTER" for VT but i wouldn't consider him better or more consistent than willis. Every QB recruited is recruited because the coaches think he was the potential to be a consistent D1 starter. I highly doubt that VT is recruiting anyone at all that they don't think can be a starter for them some day. if they are then it explains why we are a .500 football team and Clemson and Bama are playing for the ship again. I can Guarantee that they aren't recruiting kids that they don't expect to be a starter some day.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

The term "backup" generally implies a lack of experience. After starting several games up to this point in the season, there is no more lack of experience. Therefore, both players are no longer backups, and should be considered starters.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

See to me it implies..."wasn't good enough to win the starting job". Whether that's from inexperience or lack of ability may vary, but to argue it's solely about experience is untrue IMO. Willis had some experience playing elsewhere, so in my mind it was more probably more about not being as good as the starter.

so baker Mayfield was the browns back up? nick foles? just curious as to what you would justify those 2 guys as since both became starters due to injury this season.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I would say that the NFL is a bit different than college because of money, fan bases, and a multitude of other factors. In college, it's way easier to just play the best guy, because you don't have to justify why your 13 mil/yr QB is on the bench while the 2 mil/yr backup is playing. In the two situations you cite, the Browns went out and signed TT to a decent amount of money to be their bridge starter. They never planned on winning this year, so it makes sense to just allow Baker that time to learn the system and develop. The Eagles were never going to be able to just bench Wentz for Foles, as Wentz makes too much money, has too much fan support, and had already been the entrenched starter prior to his injury last year. Sometimes a backup will come in and play better than the starter, but that is rarely the case. And for all we know, both Baker and Foles looked terrible in camp and practices and therefore, never earned a starting job. You don't bench a starter for a bench QB who's looked bad in practice, even if they end up playing and playing pretty well. All to say, you can't really compare college QB competitions to guys in the NFL, and if Willis couldn't win the job, he probably just wasn't as good as JJ. Which I would say is probably still true. And I am someone who doesn't want JJ to be our QB either due to his limitations, so take that as you will..

yeah woosh...

I do believe it comes down to a difference in what we think realistic expectations are for the program. Given our funding levels, I think winning the coastal about 30% of the time, winning the ACC about 10-15% of the time, and making the playoff about 5-10% of the time would be doing pretty well. I believe that would establish us as a solid top 25 program. I'd guess you think we should win the coastal 80% of the time, win the ACC 40% of the time, and make the playoff 20% of the time. Personally I think that would making us close to a top 5 program, which I don't believe to be realistic at all.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Open and honest questions about the offense (followed by my personal opinions):
What is the offensive identity? (I have no clue.)
What do we do well? (Sideline fade/back shoulder/jump ball passes, I guess???)
After 3 years, what aspects of the offense do you feel are consistently successful? (I can't point to anything the offense does successfully on a consistent basis.)

There were a couple games where we actually showed really well on opening drives - FSU, GT, Cincy - where it was pretty clear the playcalls were either scripted, or coming in from Fuente. These were grossly overshadowed, though by 3rd and 4th quarter play.

31 points against Cincy seems to make a lot of people forget about how non-existent our offense was in the 2nd halves of games this year. Making in-game adjustments is a huge area for concern with this offensive staff, and lost us the BC game and turned ND, GT, and Miami into blood baths.

I agree that in-game adjustments appeared to be a problem, but the premise of the coaches is that we didn't have the personnel to do that.

No amount of scheming is going to adjust for the inability to complete a tackle.

That doesn't mean it isn't the problem when we can't convert points from a turnover on their 12 yard line.

Recruit Prosim

Do you approach everything with such negativity?

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

You must be new here. \s

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Feel free to file this post away with all of my other ones you love to hold on to

Scouts honor

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

How I always see Fudboster and OutofTowner's relationship.

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'm here for you brother

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

Let's at least give Fu two years with the same QB. He hasn't even had that here. And people want to burn it down.

I'd like to know who people would like to replace Fu????

Any great candidates out there at the moment???

F this. Everyone who is calling for change already is delusional and will never be happy. Sound like Miami fans.

A team ripped apart by injuries dismissals and early departures and people are crying why FU can't win the ACC and freshman can't act like seniors. Pre-game the announcers said that 75% of the team stated they had never played in a bowl game. Shit get real.

I suppose when QP throws his first int you'll be calling for his replacement because FU can't coach QBs.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I agree with your post and ask for arguments sake - is the idea that having a QB for the second year a valid point considering Fu has said it's an open competition in the spring? If that's the case and someone other than Willis or Jackson impresses it'll
be three years with a first time starter.

I think I see what point you are trying to make, but I am Not sure I follow this line of reasoning. The plan originally was Jerod for 2 years and have a competition after.

Scratch that and of course Fuente says it's a competition until someone takes the job so obviously it makes the coach's life easy. If Willis or Jackson takes the job you have a return starter. If you don't then you have a first year starter that was good enough to replace someone with far more experience.

I think the post's main point is that Fuente hasn't had that option yet, therefore give that a chance to play out.

I'm in favor of a 5 year frame. However; I do find the tread disturbing. If things were the inverse, I'd be ecstatic but instead they seem to be trending down. And the D has been such a disappointment. I can understand young players and downgrading scheme, but failure to tackle is just unfathomable. I mean how can you be a DC genius but your guys can't tackle?
I think,....think Fuente is the right guy, but I'm not feeling good right now and frankly I'm not feeling great about Bud. He's getting long in the tooth and back in the day I used to say we lost games because of playing Prevent-D, but over the past few seasons I've been saying the D lost us that game.
I thought the O was alright today, but we still lost to an AAC team and we lost to a CUSA team this year. Those aren't really things we've come to expect from VT football. Given our location and lack of pedigree, I'm not particularly optimistic going forward. I don't even care that much about a NC, I just want to win the games we're supposed to win & slay the occasional giant.

I'm not in favor of replacing Fuente after 3 seasons or for that matter anytime in the future. With that said, since you asked the question, "I'd like to know who people would like to replace Fu????" My answer would be to go after a proven recruiter.

That means I would target Tosh Lupoi from Alabama (who also was a great recruiter at Washington and Cal before coming to Alabama). I think between being a defensive coordinator for Alabama plus the success of Kirby Smart, shows that not having Head Coaching experience isn't a detrimental as some people think.

75% of the players on the team with the longest bowl streak, never before played in a bowl game.
Fascinating display of inexperience.

As far as the new QB every year, I think the operative word is "forced" to use a new QB each year, especially as this year was forced due to injury into a new QB after the season started.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Question: is this the End Of Season Vent thread??? I just wanna be clear.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

I have no idea who the eff this is, but I guess it's kinda funny??

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Eddie Izard. Comic genius.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

You better find out. Quick! Or we can't be friends anymore.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

He has an audience rolling in laughter for a solid minute and a half based on alternating facial expressions. All because no one remembered who Englebert Humperdinck is and whether or not he was still alive.

Click here to destroy wall.

Ha! Yeah I guess that is pretty funny. Yeah, I missed the vid. Thanks for explaining.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Damn people need to learn to step back and take a breath poor execution caught up to us today but now we have the off-season to rest up and get ready for a better year next year

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

It gets worse next year, that's why everyone is upset.

I'll lay down a $200 bet next season's record is better than this one. Loser donates to the Hokie Club and posts an image of the receipt.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I'll take the next one after this

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

I'd take this bet but I agree with you.

With 2 FCS teams, ODU, Wake and rebuilding UNC at home, Vegas would never post this "bet" on the board. OF COURSE we better have more than 6 wins with that schedule.

How why??

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Dude is clearly a UVA fan. Leave him alone.

Nvm

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

My dad has diabetes.

Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tach goes into the red and reads 9000 RPMs, that's bad!

Have a leg.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

New account t 2 weeks ago?
I am skeptical this is not a troll account.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

We have the potential for a great season next year, but I don't see that with the current staff. The players have shown glimpses, and they have an attitude to compete. Play calling isn't there. Fuente was brought here to specifically get back to ACC titles after we went 3 straight seasons of 6-6. Last season was okay, but this past one was awful. I understand we got a young team, and there were departures. But why are we still seeing the same mistakes all the way into the bowl game? That's a process issue, and that falls on the staff.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

This game could have gone majorly in the other direction. Cincinnati put the ball on the ground three times (at least two of which involved a Floyd Strip) and recovered all three. If VT recovered at least one we'd be talking about how the D produced a turnover that changed the game. Two of the three would have changed the one. The first one was basically at the goal line.

Fuente can stay i think. Corny should go though. There needs to be some sort of display of urgency after getting worse each year.

Corny should go though.

I heard some fans want Shane Beamer back. Apparently, he's the Assistant (to the) Head Coach at Oklahoma.

not as an OC I don't think ANYONE wants him back for that.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

(This was statistically their best offensive year since 2011, according to S&P.)

🦃 🦃 🦃

Yeah, the offense was undeniably better than last years. Complaints that it hasn't improved fast enough are valid, but stating that the offense has digressed since the Loeffler years are completely unfounded.

With our starting qb out for most of it, no less

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

There needs to be some sort of display of urgency after getting worse each year.

I fundamentally opposed to this line of thinking. We don't make huge staffing changes just to 'display a sense of urgency,' you make a staff change because you have the opportunity to upgrade. If you want to argue that Corny performed poorly and must be replaced, I'll listen, but I don't want our program to make changes just to display a sense of urgency.

Twitter me

You actually just made a super valid point and changed my mind a little bit

Recruit Prosim

Who says they can't both happen? There are always other hires out there. Better hires are always out there. You just have to know who they are.

Corny has not been good enough and needs to go. Simple as that.

Better hires are always out there. You just have to know who they are.

Those hires also have to be within our pay range, willing to move to Blacksburg, willing to work with the rest of the staff, and have an understanding of Fuente's vision for the team/offense. I think it's a shorter list than you make it seem.

My point was that when programs make staffing decisions just to 'save face' or 'display urgency', it typically fails. LSU/Matt Canada comes to mind first - Canada and Coach O didn't have the save vision for their offense, and no working history. Canada was just hired because he was 'best available option.' This year, Coach O promoted Ensminger - someone who he had an established working relationship with - to OC, and LSU fielded their best offense in over a decade (yes, I'm aware their offense has been garbage for over a decade, so the bar is low, but my point still stands).

I'm not saying that Cornelson shouldn't be replaced (I'm quite conflicted on it, I think both sides of the discussion have legitimate arguments), I'm just saying that those making staffing decisions need to take the time to diagnose and prioritize the coaching problems, separate them from other challenges this year (injuries, attrition, poor play in other phases of the game, etc) and determine if those problems can be solved by the existing staff, or if a replacement is required.

TL;DR - Staffing decisions should be strategic, NOT impulsive or in reaction to fans.

Twitter me

Those hires also have to be within our pay range, willing to move to Blacksburg, willing to work with the rest of the staff, and have an understanding of Fuente's vision for the team/offense

You forgot a very important one,
He must be Hokie material, can't be an a$$hole.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

I heard Manny Diaz is taking the job

If you are not satisfied, Donate Money.

Only if my money goes to hire a full-time tackling coach.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

im sure your comment was kinda 1/2 joking but the funny thing about this comment is.... it was thought that the Seattle Seahawks staff/ Pete Carroll were thought to be the new wave of "best tackling coaches" with the hawk roll, and eyes through the thighs, drive for 5, and all that hoopla, and then cam retired, earl Thomas quit, and then got hurt, Sherman got traded, bruce irving, bobby wagner, cliff avril, micheal bennet all got old, and they have been 28th, 22nd, and 16th the last 3 years on D. TTackling can be taught till you are blue in the face, but in DCs words "you have to have better TALENT". I agree with Fuentes assessment that a year in the weight room will do wonders but the baffling thing is guys being out of position. older guys. That's got to be addressed in the offseason as well. The tackling I think is on the player more than the coach. They know how to do it.
They were just physically out matched all year, out of place, and not as good as the guy they were trying to tackle.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I can certainly agree with this to an extent, but what I saw all season was, when someone was in position to make the tackle, they didn't wrap up, took a bad angle, etc. Hell, look at the bowl game, for instance. There were times when the ball carrier was completely encompassed by Hokies just before it looked like football Moses parted the Hokie defense.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Not to mention a QB who's as slow as Moses breaking 6 tackles for 17 yds on 3rd and 15.

Do you pronounce his name as "Due Naa Te"? Where is he currently coaching?

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

No changes are coming..if they were, the time is before bowl season..not after.

Fuente is going to roll with what he's got..possibly into unemployment.

Cornelson is dead weight and nothing more. At least one of Nix or Mitchell needs to be sent packing, but won't.

Next year, we will continue to call bootlegs in driving rainstorms on short-yardage, watch our safeties look like they're playing PowderPuff in run support, and CBs be constantly lost.

Next year, we will continue to call bootlegs in driving rainstorms on short-yardage

Not sure if this is in reference to that play call near the goal line, but if so, I thought it was a great play call. If Keene just chips the guy on the edge its a TD. Easy. But instead, he slithers through without chipping anyone.

Is it basketball season yet?

I have to disagree. Even if Willis throws the ball when Keene cones open, Keene is still one yard behind the LOS and two full yards from the 1st down line. #32 is in perfect position to either make the tackle or even pick off/break up the pass if it isn't thrown perfectly.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

IMO, and based on Willis's postgame quote, Keene scores easily if he doesn't slip (and is able to get the ball over the rushers). But, he slips as he is trying to plant his left leg to back step and throw over the two rushers and the rest is history.

If Keene chips, he wouldn't be as open here (he'd be a step and 1/2 behind), but it would buy Willis and Hazelton one more stop to hit the flag route.

It's a great call and sure TD if the grass isn't wet. I think it's still a great call with wet grass, although it's always a gamble, and a gamble that was lost. There's no assurance that Willis doesn't slip on a QB sneak either.

🦃 🦃 🦃

Based on the screenshot I concede that I may be wrong, but am not 100% convinced. (Bear with me as I am not saavy enough to post screenshots of the gif at 8 seconds or the half-speed clip)

The screenshot is paused at 7 seconds into the gif.
At that point:
-Keene is running parallel to the LOS, a full yard behind the LOS and two full yards from the first down line.
-#32 has already diagnosed the play and is running towards Keene
-Keene hasn't yet turned his head around to look for the incoming pass.
-They are not moving at the same speed, #32 is moving much faster.
-Keene turns at 8 seconds into the gif and by then, #32 has made up a lot of ground and is running towards Keene at full speed.
-The two pass rushers have already disrupted Willis and are forcing him to move his launch point.

Therefore, in my opinion:
-If Willis throws it before Keene turns to look for the ball and times it so it arrives just as he turns, or perfectly drops it in the bucket over Keene's head and towards the sideline, then Keene gets the first down, maybe even gets in the end zone. But this supposes a perfect pass despite the pass rush directly in Willis' face forcing him to move his launch point and to most likely have to throw the ball without setting his feet properly. It also assumes that Keene makes a great catch with very little time to see the ball coming his way.
-If Willis waits for Keene to turn and still has to loft the ball over the two pass rushers in his face, I firmly believe that #32 would have made up enough ground to either tackle Keene short of the first down, remember Keene would still be two full yards from the line to gain and running parallel to the LOS when the catch is made, or even break-up the pass, because, again Willis wouldn't be able to set his feet and easily make the perfect throw.

Again, I'm not saying that it wouldn't happen. I'm just saying that I disagree that the play was a sure touchdown had Willis not slipped and/or lost his grip on the ball.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Let's all remember when we patted the coaches on the back multiple times in the last 2 years for adjusting their game plans for the elements unlike their opponents (cough fedora cough)

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

It's eshibens fault for not having the weather improve enough at the end of the game and made Willis slip.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Fire Foster/s

Gents... take a breath. Let's panic after next year.

70% of our players raised their hand before the game who have never played in a bow game before.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Yet they've played in 12 regular season games up until this point. It's not like we're playing Bama out there. There's always next year at VT.

Geez, the one time I DON'T procrastinate and I get criticized.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

It's our web site, and we'll panic when we want to.

I love you all. Touché.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

edited this: don't TKP while drinking lol.

here are my end of season thoughs. everyone just look right here.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Alright I'm out. This whole thread is ridiculous.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Told ya.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

All I took away from this game is:

Thank God we don't play in the Mountain West Conference, those officials were fucking terrible.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Being in the ACC is not an improvement in that area . . .

Oh yes it is.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I'm surprised at the agreement with this. I really thought the game was called remarkably well. Sure there were some misses, but I thought they got a lot right that we see ACC refs and reviews get wrong.

Any specific examples you could steer me to?

I thought they were slow and interrupted game play at times when it wasn't necessary. Their ultimate calls were not terrible in my opinion though.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

We literally have people who vent about the vent thread. Should we have another layer of vent threads for them as well?

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

Too soon.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Side note, did anybody else notice that tackling didn't get any better over the course of the year? It's one thing when young players are out of position or not wrapping up early in the season. But this was game 13, and it not only didn't get better, it looked worse compared to the opener against FSU. That's inexcusable

May have improved some. Just not enough.

Opener wasn't in the rain. There were a fair share of missed tackles that were quite literally slipped tackles.

Also, more than a fair share of our tackling woes is due to defenders being out of position or taking bad angles. Those things make good tackling technique basically impossible. You are right that there wasn't significant improvement in tackling through the season, but the game also hasn't slowed down yet for a lot of our defensive players. You can say that's inexcusable after twelve games, but player development doesn't care about your opinion. Sometimes it takes a couple years for players to adjust to the P5 game. Sometimes they don't ever adjust.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I thought the only position group that regressed were the DBs which is why I'm on board with the nix and mitchell out brigade

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

#1 thing to consider is buyouts. Fuente is not going anywhere for a while. That basically means neither is his staff.

For JJ haters, Willis' last INT should answer the question as to why JJ was the starter. JJ isn't flashy but he's not desperate on 2nd down either. There is no need to risk an INT on 2nd down. Also, it was interesting to note that the commentators named QP as the back-up. It could have been a mistake, but I have serious doubts about whether HH sees the field as QB.

I wasn't totally dissatisfied with the play calling. It could be better, but I thought it was okay overall. I'm not sold on Cornelsen, but I don't think he lost this game for us.

The defense is still young. I have to say I was pretty disappointed with Mihota's arm tackles. Moving Mihota to tackle was a move of desperation that probably wasn't going to (and really didn't) work too well.

Next season is critical to determining the status of the program. There are far too many young players to really get a gauge on what this team is made of.

Another big question: Who's our next QB recruit? Are they on the board (I honestly don't know). QP will hopefully start eventually, but if he's a miss who's behind him?

I hate the loss but we retained two important streaks. If we didn't I'd be FAR more critical (like I was earlier in the season). Yes, it's the first losing year for VT football since 1992, but we didn't lose to LOLUVA (you know, the Le Sabre National Champions in waiting) and the bowl streak survived (more important that most people realize).

I'd just grab a beverage of your choice and welcome the New Year!

Go Hokies!

I congratulate you on a thoughtful post.

I'm currently toasting you with my beer in hand.

Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Much appreciated. Cheers to you as well!

For the record - HH was in street clothes today, so QP was in fact the back up.

Also, agree the offense did not lose this game for us. This one was on the defense. You score 31 points against a G5 team playing with their back up QB and you should win, by double digits. We didn't win because we couldn't tackle, and we had breakdowns in gap fit and blown coverages.

Good post.
From my eyes, Ryan Willis is a baller and is willing to step up when it's all on the line. Is he more risky? Yes, but he's also going to extend drives and make some plays too. With all do respect, I would much rather have him behind center than Josh Jackson. And that last INT was a great throw that Hazelton makes if the DB doesn't interfere with his ability to run under it. It was so egregious and would have been called 99% or the time today if they hadn't already called a PI on an INT that drive.

Having said all that, clearly the coaches do not trust their rJR QB to not make a bad play with his back near the endzone. I think the real debate on the coaches is whether that distrust is warranted or not because we are punting to give our opponents a short field way too often - almost every time we are backed up.

Nothing about that pass was a great throw. It was floated rather than trying to lead Hazelton to where only he could catch it. Trying to draw a PI is fine with man coverage, but the defender had safety help and Willis, once again, failed to properly read the coverage.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Next QB recruit (Tyler Warren) is 2020 and is already committed. He was top 6 junior in the state and I believe will be top 2-3 after his senior year. 6'5" somewhat raw, big arm and athletic. VT got in early and made a good evaluation. He will get pursued by the big schools.

This staff has been solid in the QB recruiting and just needs some time to develop QP and these guys and the difference will be obvious.

Leg for the info. Much appreciated.

He's not necessarily being recruited as a qb

Recruit Prosim

Not sure where you are getting the info but he is only a QB.

This is unfortunate the way we lost a totally winnable game, but I'm going to stick with my statement when we had just lost 4 in a row which was I'd be happy if we just beat UVA to end the year and keep that streak alive. I didn't even mention anything about a bowl game. Not the season any of us hoped for but here's to a Happy New Year for you all and Virginia Tech come late August 2019.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I fear it's about to get ugly unfortunately. The VT old guard isn't going to be as kind and forgiving to the new guys. No one expected a natty year 3, but this team is fundamentally flawed.

Something was wrong with the defense this year.

Needs to be addressed. Bigly.

Somethings up with bud. And I hope he's ok and returns to form

Recruit Prosim

@budfoster.... oh wait.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Holy cow... that Twitter thread. Former players calling out the two coaches that everyone thinks are weak links.

Is it basketball season yet?

Maybe..its because they are.

I'm willing to accept that I am an anonymous internet poster who hasn't played organized football in 20 years, but when former players who know the scheme make legit criticisms..isn't it time to think there's a real, systemic problem here?

In general, I wouldn't blindly assume the mob of ex players knows what is best for the program. However, in this instance, I think they are on to something. The question is whether or not Bud thinks he can get them to turn the corner or are changes needed.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Yeah, from the couch its hard to tell. On the one hand, Nix has only been there half a year, so its understandable he would be on a learning curve. On the other hand, the gap assignment and coverage issues have been going on all season. I don't know exactly how the staff operates and communicates, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that an issue of that magnitude could be communicated and corrected within a game or two by a P5 coaching staff

Well, he certainly wasn't dancing around the issue, was he?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

For anyone who doesn't get the joke:

And yes, we got slaughtered 22-3 by Boston College, who VT "should easily defeat with only halfway competent coaching given the resources we have," even in the glory days.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Bowl games have notoriously bad tackling. The layoff is long and that's one of the first things to get rusty on.

Thanks for joining us. Where you been all season?

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Also a downpour and players are slick

Recruit Prosim

It's too bad Rich Rod just got a job...Maybe we try to poach Hue Jackson? /s

Little Bobby Tables told me my signature was false

Who? Hue?! Eww!

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

I think there are some legitimate concerns with the defense. That said, I believe the attrition on that side of the ball was abnormal and had a legitimate effect. I'd be fine if Foster and Fuente decided to make some changes but also would be willing to give them another season if they believe this year's results were an anomaly.

Offensively, I think people are too focused on the "year 3" narrative instead of looking more closely at the rebuild picture. Year 1 we had enough pieces in place that Fuente took a physically developed JUCO QB and immediately competed for the conference title. Ford, Hodges, and especially Evans leaving early hurt and forced a rebuild before Fuente could backfill the roster with talent. Last season we could still lean on the defense but outside of Cam Phillips, the talent level on offense was severely depleted. This year I saw flashes of talent on offense and overall improvement from last season, but it wasn't enough because the defense turned from a strength to a massive liability. Based on the players we have and are bringing in, I like where we are at WR and TE, feel optimistic about OL and QB, and a little disappointed at RB. This is probably obvious, but QB is going to be critically important moving forward and likely determine how we feel about this offense and team over the next two seasons. Cornelsen's future is most likely tied to Quincy Patterson's development.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

That's a pretty good take on the offense. But I'm concerned the defense isn't going to be much improved next year. Who will play on the DL? Walker is gone. So is Vinny.

Walker is gone. So is Vinny.

I don't think Mihota has been a major factor since his knee injury last year.

This is a HUGE question. We know we have one potential starter in a JUCO transfer. The rest is really up to coaching magic, freshman (yikes!) and hoping Porcher IV can up his game.

I think we are going to be okay at DE. DT is where I have far more concerns.

Let's not forget that in any given year VT has had two levels of our defense make up for weaknesses in pretty much only one other level. This year we had a defense that has had weaknesses at all three levels. I am expecting much better performances from the LBs, DBs and DEs. That leaves DT as a concern. The defense WILL BE BETTER next year.

don't think Mihota has been a major factor since his knee injury last year.

I agree, and I probably wasn't all that clear in what I meant there. If a one-legged Vinny moved back from DE was the best we had at DL, what does that say about the personnel behind him?

Without a blitz, post-Duke, where House has a monster game, we haven not generated a pass rush. We have bodies at DE but we do not get edge penetration. DE and DT are both in trouble again next season. Losing THill was a season crusher, and maybe more than one.

Agreed. Defensive personnel is still a major concern going in to next season. It's hard to evaluate coaching when you have personnel issues though, which is why I would defer to Foster and Fuente's judgment. If they still believe the right coaches are in place to get the job done, I'd be willing to accept it with the idea that we will see improvement next year at safety/CB and get back to a more typical VT defense in 2020.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It's too early to fire Fuente. I doubt if we see any significant changes in the off season.

But, if I were to make changes, I'd replace Mitchell and Nix with a single DB coach who knows what he's doing. I'd bring in a proper OC and either fire Cornelson or reassign him to something a bit more his speed. I believe he's in over his head. I'd swap the RB and WR coaches.

But most importantly, I'd use the extra cash from reducing DB coaches to bring in an Ace recruiter.

This off season is the most important period of Fuente's career. He can either make changes to buy himself a little extra time or decide to continue on this current path. If he elects the latter, which I fully expect, then he better damn well produce 10 or 11 wins in 2019 to save his job.

If there aren't any changes this year and we go 8-4 or worse (our schedule is favorable) then I don't really see how keeping him would be justified.

It's important for him to get this right. Does he really believe his current staff is capable of winning the Coastal and competing for ACC Champs and playoff berths? Because if they don't deliver in 2019 his reputation is sullied and he risks being out of a job. He has to realize that. If he doesn't, then P5 probably isn't for him.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Agree almost 100% with this. You could find one coach who could replace both Nix and Mitchell, use the extra cash to find a real OC and sit Cornelson in a basement with a VHS as a control coach.

The other fundamental change that really needs to be made is Fuente needs to stop running the program like we're hiding nuclear bomb codes under the Merryman.

If the program wants money it needs to stop driving fans away.

The other fundamental change that really needs to be made is Fuente needs to stop running the program like we're hiding nuclear bomb codes under the Merryman.

If the program wants money it needs to stop driving fans away.

Or it needs to win doing so. It's really the combination of no access and low performance that drives fans away. Fans can be engaged with high performance and no access, or low performance and plenty of access, but low performance and no access gives fans very little to hold on to.

These two points are totally valid and well stated. I agree with both of you

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Agreed. I would reach out to Brandon Flowers to see if he has any interest. Could solve all issues. Young, knows the schemes, knows proper techniques, alum, played in the league which can only help in recruiting. Either that or depending on what happens in Washington, I would go get Torrian again and make him co D coordinator but I have a feeling he will have offers to stay in nfl bringing me back to option 1.

My vote is DeAngelo, as he played both safety and corner, and could help lock down that 757 area he's from, plus his time with the Skins might help pull those DMV and Richmond kids. But I'm really just dreaming.

From what I gather Hall is involved with his son who I believe is in HS or approaching HS so I doubt that timing would work for him

So we hire the recruit's dad?
Never done that before.
Seriously, DHall was an elite athlete. How good is son?

I recall him saying on the radio earlier this year that his son was already being recruited and spoke of recruiting departments in the SEC. I do not recall him saying where but I think he helps coach some with his HS team at Stone Bridge.

Another day, another TKPer lobbying for ex-players with no FBS coaching experience to take a P5 position coach job.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Yeah. Flowers or D Hall or Kam may all end up being fine coaches if they want to pursue that career path. But, there seems to be a large number of folks that immediately jump to the latest retired Hokie to solve coaching issues. All three of those mentioned have great potential but we really have no idea if they can in fact coach. There really isn't a huge benefit to limiting our talent pool to past players anyway. If they do have aspirations of working their way up the coaching tree, it is likely that they will want to broaden their experience...so there isn't a loyalty perk.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

I agree that they still have to be able to coach, and they may or may not be able to...but in this situation, we're talking about a DB coach, which is far more about teaching technique and skills than anything else. Less to do with the administrative aspects of coaching. And I think it's been documented that a lot of these guys are used to "coaching" younger teammates in the league. They may be REALLY bad at teaching technique and skills, but I find that to be unlikely (especially having heard plenty about DeAngelo's role on his team as a veteran). It's not as if they're going straight to a DC or something. It's very specific to what they've done their whole lives. So I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily (and expanding our talent pool is always good), just that I think being a DB coach requires more in technical know-how than anything else. At least that's what WE need out of them. Bud can do the other parts until they pick it up.

Apparently the Dre Bly hire at UNC is going over very well with recruits so far

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

My thoughts...it's officially the football offseason. Let the team have a break and come back in the spring ready to get better.

1-0 every week

I'm super pissed and want change on both sides of the ball but I can not rationalize between my anger towards today and my frustration with our coaching staff.

Until I can, I will be sitting out. Out of anger, our dB coach needs updating. Special teams needs a serious looking at, and Cornball needs to go to more coaching clinics to learn an offensive identity

"Welcome to the Terror Dome." -- Corey Moore

As a Cowboys fan, I now know how Redskins fans feel.

Pour some Beer on it

You feel cursed because your team owner is an idiot and is only 54yrs old.....so he'll probably out live you??????

Ugh so many comments to respond to and so little energy to care enough to actually type them. Just the meltdown of this season was bad enough and now its coupled with the largest Hokie fight on the internet. Draincentral!!

Don't know that I see a ton of fighting here. Mostly people voicing their disappointment and their concerns going forward.

Changes need to be made period. Start with DB/Safety's then move to offensive side of the ball. Either Fuente calls plays and Corn is QB coach or straight up let the dude go. He is nowhere near P5 ready and I'd say in over his head.

4th and 1 from the 5 and you call a slow developing PA in the pouring rain when the left side of that OL has been killing it. You can go find one or two playcalls like that in every game and say wtf.

Tackling my goodness I have never see so many kids try to tackle with no arms. Kids are straight up diving at legs head down hoping to make contact.

Better hope those JUCO DTs are quality or its going to be deha vu next year. Did we even make a tackle for loss today or sack the QB?

There is so much wrong with VT football and I'm not sure the necessary changes will be made.

Special teams well they were pretty lackluster this year.
#2cents

What does Nebraska need to do to improve next year?

Edited to not come off as an ass to jugs.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Not sure if that was backhanded but...

starts in the trenches, recruiting and gotta be tougher on and off the field.

Honestly, no. Just curious because of the two rebuilding teams. I added the record for the folks on here who may not have known. Always appreciate your insight.

Apologies.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

The coaches know the system they want to run. Luckily they also get to recruit the kids they think will fit that system. At the end of the day it will work or it won't and changes will need to be made. Rebuild length will vary depending on how program was left and what depth said team has.

Biggest thing in a rebuild is getting old guys to either buy in or process them out and get guys in who will. First 2 years of a rebuild is on the team demeanor and whether they're going to fight for the new coach. 3rd/4th year gives the HC time to get enough of his recruiting stamp on team a tweak it to his liking.

I will say that I wouldn't be shocked if all these dismissals and other issues outside Fuente's control hurt/killed the moxey of this team. VT lost its dogs and in time of trouble/uncertainty they didn't have guys to bring em through it. Yes the coaches can help but it's different coming from a brother whose been with you blood sweat tears saying it.

2019 will show what type of dogs are on this VT team.

Well said, and I agree about 2019. I really do appreciate the insight.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

4th and less than 1 after The interception-either kick the field goal or power run the damn ball, fuente loves to get too frigging cute. It was too wet for cute today. The left side was pushing off tackle runs all day, run the damnball

Watch the replay on Bitter's twitter the entire O line got blown two yards back on that play. A run anywhere the middle wasn't getting that yard.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

The constant if you can't line up and get one yard up the middle you don't deserve to win rhetoric has been around football for 100 years and isn't unique to Vt.

Watch the playoff teams - they mix up their play calling in the redzone and nobody says anything when it works and it works a lot.

I would ask the critics this - do you understand the blocking scheme? Do you know the line of scrimmage checks? If the play is open and the guy doesn't make a block how is that different than when a guy misses blocks on running plays? We aren't good enough to line up and just bulldoze them - the call had them fooled we just didn't make the blocks up front and got beat - period.

I understand what you are trying to show
, but they are pass blocking, not firing off the ball for a run block. Can't judge the execution because it was a pass.

Fireman you can't make that assumption because one play is a run and the other was a pass....on a run the oline is firing forward and on a pass the oline is kind of absorbing contact....maybe if a run is called the oline wins the clash....just saying

Because they had to pass block instead of taking to the defense.

Recruit Prosim

I'm cold and drunk and wet and I miss Torrian Gray.

We ALL are/do.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Why are you wet?

Wait...don't answer that.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Haha, it rained at the game. A lot.

F'ing miserable weather yesterday. Didn't help that the engineers that designed the upper deck forgot about drainage, and those sitting in row 1 had about 3" of water at their feet by the end of the game.

I understand why you were wet. I don't understand why Hokie Magruber was wet.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I have a much bigger problem at this point with recruiting and player development than I did the play calling or actual in-game coaching. And I think that goes far beyond the argument about our ability to get blue chip 5 star players - we didn't even have 3-star adequate ACC talent on defense this year. Whether that's more a result of recruiting misses or of developing players who should have been good enough, I'm not sure, but either way it's on the coaches.

The defensive talent just wasn't even close to there. And yeah, we lost a ton of starters to the NFL and attrition, it was gonna be a rough year no matter what, I get it. But it shouldn't have been anywhere close to THIS bad either. We're now sitting at a point where this "young defense" didn't really show any improvement over 13 games and where we're going to need to heavily rely on freshmen and JUCO players to contribute next year because most of the guys who played this year are simply not good enough.

We have certainly dug a huge hole along the DL. Both DE and DT are depleted of once all-ACC level talent. At CB, Watts is going to be good and Farley will eventually be an all-American but we don't have anyone on the team to legitimately spell these guys if injured or to play nickel. It's crazy what DBU has become.

I wish I shared your optimism regarding the back end of the defense. I'm not sure Watts has D1 size or speed to be an ACC corner. And although Farley is crazy athletic, I'm not optimistic that he can transition into an ACC corner either.

It isn't simply the depth that you refer to that is an issue, its that the guys starting might not even be on the two deep on a traditional Lunch Pail D.

Is it basketball season yet?

No question our starting DBs would not be starters this year on the defenses of old. Farley is raw as heck but he has A++ coverage skills that progressively improved as the season went along. Watts is one of the faster players on the team, but also raw and not strong enough, and hasn't timed his jumps well enough yet. But both of those guys, along with everyone in the secondary, were out of position all season long.

How were Farley, Watts, Diablo, and Floyd out of position this season?

Edit: Now after rereading, I think you were stating that they were "out of position" when I read/interpreted that they were playing the wrong position. In which case, I agree.

Is it basketball season yet?

Sorry- were playing the right position but were out of position to make a play on the ball way too many times.

I'm not sure if I'm more scared of how we completely failed to stockpile any DT talent, or at how we actually DID recruit a ton of DE talent and NONE of it broke through.

Between Belmar, Garbutt, Proctor, and DeBose, those are four guys who have all been in the program multiple years and all should have been real contributors on some level and none of them really showed anything when the opportunity presented itself.

Not sure why you expect redshirt freshmen to be contributors on the defensive line but you really need to re-evaluate your expectations.

Regarding Belmar, this was his third year in the program and he did pretty well this season after Hill left. I think he made the same jump that Gaines made his rSO season. I expect him to be a big factor in this defense next season.

Hope Gaines can get up to full speed, but not to worried about the end position. Garbutt will be a stud. Next year could be a breakout if he overtakes Gaines due to slow recovery.

Always choose joy.

So maybe we should wait for FUENTE'S recruits to reach their potential?

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

So far beamers boys are the ones who have shined brightest

Recruit Prosim

but that probably has a lot to do with the fact they've been playing college football a lot longer right ?

All this thread has told me is that we have a bunch of folks on this site who want to tell others whether or not they can post a vent topic. If you're not level headed enough to post concise thoughts after a loss then that's your problem, not OP's.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

So you read the first 2 comments then?

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

So you just ignored where the poster said "a bunch of folks", not every single poster?

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Yes, I apparently ignored the part that you made up.

Edit: Ahhh good edit sir.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

I never made anything up. I originally paraphrased what Warthog said instead of using the direct quote. If I were quoting Warthog, I would have used quotation marks.

But, I figured that you would nitpick that to deflect from the intent of my post, which you most certainly did. I changed it to a quote to remove any ambiguity.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Glad we are on the same page now.

The part you "made up" was saying "everyone". Just having a little fun.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

6-7 with a team that probably shouldn't have won four games...optimism folks!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Defense should get incrementally better next year with experience and some incoming bodies. Willis and JJ are serviceable but don't move the needle at QB. Gotta hope QP steps up.

So since we couldn't tackle and cover receivers this year I assume bud doesn't know how to teach kids how to tackler and cover? Ignore the previous 25 years, that must have been luck. It has nothing to do with the fact two thirds of his defense was freshmen and sophomores.

I think decisions about a coach come down to if you believe in the plan as much as the short-term results. I definitely believe in the plan and it's way too early to panic. A couple of notes:
1) tons of 1st year bowl players - youth, youth, youth. Next year progress is key - 68% I believe was the #.
2) the Dalton Keene call lost the game and was a bad call as the Cinci player grabbed him to essentially "flop" - if they don't call that the rhetoric is different.
3) 3 Qb's in 3 years. Next year will be the 1st year with either a repeat starter or a freshman who beats out a repeat starter - either is an upgrade. (Jerod screwed this up)
4). Defense was essentially 2nd team after preseason issues. That excuse won't calm the issues next year, but for now note that With AA, Trevon (who should have been booted), Webb (difference maker) and Mook this is a different season. None of these are the current coaches fault.
5). Offensive line talent is improving - next year is a key time to see us on the upswing here.
6) Willis has talent, but struggles to make "winning plays" in key moments and I don't see this as an OC issue. This is pure execution.

Next year progress matters and I believe they will make the progress. It all hinges on better more consistent QB play.

The last point is a big one to me. I love RW guts and heart but he isn't executing multiple reads and stares his guys down too much the hope I have this off-season is we develop a QB who can make multiple reads and make the secondarys work harder. A more intelligent qb could seriously help in putting up more points consistently. That and I'd like to think the tackling can't be any worse than it was this year.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Maybe the qb guru should help him fix that. Seems like something that is easily teachable

Recruit Prosim

Maybe

When in doubt. Nap it out

Maybe not

When in doubt. Nap it out

Idk

When in doubt. Nap it out

Well done. 👏👏👏

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

reesejenks:

I might know

What the heck are we gonna do to clean up the Defense?

31 points with the backup QB against a 10
Win team and this loss/season is the offense's fault?

also statistically Fuente's best offensive year on the VT sideline, and Bud's worst defensive year, but Cornelsen is at fault for this lousy year.

🦃 🦃 🦃

We are light years better on offense than we have been for most of the last 15 seasons and yet people are so scarred from those years that they reflexively blame every loss on the offense. People literally came up with ways to blame the offense for Georgia Tech and Pitt.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Except the stat that matters the most.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

...time of possession?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I do think Cornelson calls a good game most of the time. Today, he did a great job of mixing dives, QB draws, read option, screens, crosses, outs, fades, etc. He generally had the D on their heels most of the day.

However, either he or Fuente do not trust our rJR QB when we are backed up and that is costing us a lot of field position. Cincy pinned us deep a few times today and Fuente is afraid to let Ryan throw it down the field. Our offense goes into a shell, we punt, and give Cincy the ball around the 50. That happened all year and it cost us over and over.

I thought Cornelson did a good job until he went away from the run game to the left side. Those guys were destroying Cinci on that side of the field the entire second half and we left it. I'm not sure if Cinci made an adjustment or not, but based on what we've seen from Corny this season, I would guess not.

Is it basketball season yet?

Cmon. Willis started the last 10 games of the year. The "backup" qb line rings hollow.

And the Cincy QB started every game last year and first two this year but everyone keeps talking about the backup beating Foster.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Probably because they remember the now aspiring preacher from ODU torching us. Or Tobias Oliver who played 2 snaps in GTs bowl game running all over us. That's probably why it's a theme

He's still the backup QB.

If he's the starter next year over JJ and QB, that argument will ring hollow.

A lot of arguments will be different, as we'll also lose the "inexperienced players" angle.

So if he came in on the second play against FSU, he's the "backup" qb? Got it. Lol

If he came in because of injury then YES. "Backup" means less good not less experienced.

This is an extremely odd stance to be taking. We absolutely cannot argue that Willis is lacking experience, especially after playing most of the season, but he never won the starting job. He was JJ's backup.

Fuente and staff?

Need a different OC and secondary coach.

Bud's defense is predicated on the front 7 - meaning that the secondary has to be able to survive on its own. This year's secondary couldn't. It remains to be seen if this is due to youth/inexperience or bad DB coaching. I'm...not very patient with this. I take pride in this. I can't take pride in this in 2018.

Fuente is supposed to be brilliant at offense. I thought the gap between the Marshall game and the bowl would have shown significant improvement. Narrator:

It didn't

I'm not asking for miracles but I'm not really asking for much.

This is year 3. Next year (2019) should be a ten win season. The next year (2020) we should be competitive for the conference vs. Clemson.

These are my measuring sticks.

I believe these are reasonable, legitimate & logical expectations.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Respect.

We won 10 games and were competitive with Clemson in year 1 so Fuente must be relieved to know he accomplished the goals through 2020 so quickly.

Seriously though why is everyone obsessed with the year 3 thing without considering the circumstances surrounding the program? If any coach would be responsible for this year's regression, it seems that it would be Bud and Wiles. Yet people would go berserk if they were let go.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

And then got outclassed by every good team we played in 2017, and weren't even an afterthought in probably the worst division in P5 in 2018.

Take off the O&M glasses for 30 secs...I think that expecting better than 8-4 this season was silly, but to not allow that this season (and offseason) were extremely disappointing and have to raise at least some doubts as to where Fuente is taking the Program is foolish.

Explain in detail why you think 2017 should have been better with the talent we had available.

In 2018, the defense sucked at historical levels and the future doesn't look that great at DB and DL. If you question the future of the program based on this season, then I don't see how your conclusion wouldn't be that we should fire Foster immediately.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

You're making part of my argument for me. Other than hoping the JUCOs we picked up can fill some gaps, I dont see much hope that the D is much better next year. Even more so, because of how little positive development we saw on the field this year...tackling has been abhorrent and the CBs were literally giving 15 yd cushions to CUSA WRs today to avoid getting beat.

The blame for the obvious recruiting gaps belongs in many places, but as the HC, Fuente has to bear some of the blame. You could literally build a 4-deep out of the DL we have missed on in just Fuentes tenure. Foster's success over the years is inarguable, but other programs clearly are able to exploit his "non-NFL" DL scheme against him..

You're making part of my argument for me.

I find that this happens on this site quite a bit.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

DL recruiting falls at the feet of Foster and Wiles the last 5 years because that's who should be on the two deep next year.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I don't understand the recruiting misses argument. Did we turn down 4- and 5-star kids who wanted to commit?

We put the K in Kwality

This is a list off the top of my head of recent DL we have missed on that have been targets of ours:
V. Dimukeje, A. McNeill, A. Jones, S. Jackson, K. Wardlow, J. Bailey, KJ Henry

We simply haven't been able to bring in the guys we need, period. It's more than just bad luck at this point.

Yeah. But did we turn then down? They chose somewhere else.

We put the K in Kwality

I dont believe I ever argued that we were turning guys down?

Long and short, many programs have been able to use the argument that Foster uses a non pro-style line scheme against him. I think that's borne out by our recruiting results. Unfortunately, other than completely changing his scheme I don't know how this can be easily fixed.

The common denominator over the last five years are Wiles and Foster. So unless you are advocating one of them be fired or retired what's going to change about the DL?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

A young, energetic DL coach who is also a strong recruiter wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I'll keep banging the drum on this...this staff badly needs a "closer"

Seriously though why is everyone obsessed with the year 3 thing without considering the circumstances surrounding the program?

I got you, my opinions only:

When a new head coach takes over a program, there is naturally some transition period between the old regime and the new one. This could mean guys transferring out, getting cut, dropping out, etc (most of which we have seen in 2018).

The changes between the old and new regimes happen in the first three years. Taggart, at FSU, has historically done this in his first year at every new school he's coached. Some coaches shoot for the second year, be it due to preference or the circumstances of the program. Some coaches, like Fuente (apparently), do it in year 3 (Brady Hoke also tried this at Michigan). It has to happen eventually - and by time you are in your fifth year, you have shown your worth - as the head of the program, what we see by year five is what we're going to get, by and large.

Year three is a pretty good barometer of where the new coach stands. Year 1 and Year 2? Could be Brady-Hoke-relying-on-Rich-Rod's-players-and-scheme-and-it's-clear-he-doesn't-have-a-plan. But when year three/four comes around, you start to see what this coach has been able to build on their own.

With that backdrop, I'm sensing that Fuente needs years 4 and 5 to make us what he can make us. I said in another comment that next year needs to be at 10 wins and the following year needs to show that we can be competitive with Clemson. That's the barometer, and that's where the 3-year (or longer) fixation comes from. Since we're a program that tends to be patient, I don't think year 5 is too far afield to really be able to decide, but it sure as heck will be the deciding hour if we are scraping to get to the Military Bowl.

I took a wait and see approach when this season went south with the assumption that having some of Fuente's guys age into being upperclassmen next season could make a big difference. Well, that and the defense hopefully getting past being Ricky-Walker-and-everyone-else next year. Baring an absolute collapse next season Fuente will make it to year 5, but if we aren't looking like the team that runs the Coastal by the end of it then we may not see a year 6 with the buyout shrinking to $1 million.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

While I understand what you're saying, I don't agree with your proposed timeline in this case. In the wake of the early draft entries and dismissals, we were left with Ricky Walker as essentially the lone NFL caliber player. There wasn't much that Fuente could have done in his first recruiting class, as he was just trying to bring in a QB and sign the players Beamer was able to reel in before his final season. The talent level on this team was completely depleted over a very short time span.

Fuente has brought in solid classes the last two seasons and started to rebuild the overall talent level. I won't dispute that we still have some massive holes to fill. I don't know if Foster/Wiles took the DL for granted because it was so stacked in 2016 but the cupboard is still too bare. DB still remains a big question mark as well. However, WR is as talented and deep as it's ever been, TE is very solid and deep, and we've hauled in more highly rated OL than ever. It's too early to say we have elite talent at QB or RB but Patterson and King have more potential than we've had at those positions in quite a while as well.

I think Fuente had a plan for the transition and the losses on offense two years ago (Evans, Hodges, Ford) and defense this past year (both Edmunds, Settle, Alexander, Hill) left the roster gutted. He didn't have the necessary time to restock the talent and as a result we had to start multiple players at nearly every position with minimal time for development. Despite what many say, I think the future on offense is extremely bright if Quincy can even come close to meeting expectations. The defense does concern me, especially with what some have said about Bud, but I'm going to hope we can right the ship at DL and DB because LB is stacked with potential right now.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

we were left with Ricky Walker as essentially the lone NFL caliber player.

Nitpicking but Yosh could get taken as a late round flyer by a team that's looking for tackle depth.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Good points. My original timeline was 3- to 5-years from when Fuente was hired. Are you suggesting year 6 will be the best time to evaluate? What sort of timeline would you propose until we can fairly evaluate what we have in Fuente, given what you mentioned above?

You pose a valid question, though I am somewhat fundamentally opposed to putting a specific year on it. I expect the offense to improve slightly next year but recognize we'll be breaking in 3 new starters on the OL. We should be very close to realizing Fuente's vision on offense in 2020. I think we should be a top 40 offense at that point even if JJ is under center, but if Quincy Patterson develops into a high level QB I believe we should be a top 20 offense.

The defense needs to improve next year but it's hard to see how the DL will be better. Can we get back to a more typical Bud Foster defense by the 2020 season? I guess that would be my first full evaluation year for Fuente and if either side of the ball isn't improving, then major staff changes should be made to address it. My biggest concern is that there are still too many holes in quality players and depth on the defensive side of the ball that things might not be able to improve by then. In that scenario, is Fuente going to have support to make changes that could include Foster, given his legendary status in Blacksburg? It's a tough situation and I would be willing to give Fuente some additional time if the defense seemed to be the bigger issue at that point in his tenure.

Ultimately I think you become highly concerned if we have a season worse than 2018 and I'd expect immediate staff changes. Otherwise I'm looking at year 5 (2020) as a fair point to evaluate the progress with Fuente's vision. If the defense hasn't come around or Fuente does make major staff changes then, give him a chance to turn it around in 2021 or 2022 before it's time to move on.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Agreed, 2020 will be a good year to evaluate where we are. With any luck it'll be a good year, which i think we are tracking towards with the development we have had this year.

correct. VT is a 6 year rebuild.

6 is too long IMO... 4 is an entire recruiting cycle...

So 5 years on the job?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

4, given Fuente's start date.

Edit: If things are going as desired, by the end of year 4, there should be definitive achievement of pre-defined goals and objective/quantifiable improvement of the football program's performance metrics as ascribed by the AD. Four years on the job for Fuente means 5 recruiting classes and 4 seasons under his belt as VT's head whistle. That 5th recruiting class doesn't have to be on the field before Whit should be able to tell if Fuente is the guy or not.

Normally I agree with you and say 4 years for a new coach, BUT IMO the issues surrounding VT at the time of Fuente entering say 6 years to me. Contextually, too much was nearly gone when he took over. I am surprised we had as good of years as we did the last too, pleasantly so. I expected years like this one.

normally, there are more upperclassmen contributing that help mitigate the misses a new coach has in recruiting his first 2 years while hopefully having winning seasons. We have 4 upperclassmen. That's not normal. It tells me that we need an additional 2 years to allow for those first 2 years of recruits to be weeded out between the real players and those that will fade away. I think that is exactly what we have been seeing. We just don't have the depth in junior and seniors. So now starts Fuente's real 4 years, and this is without a doubt with HIS players. He makes it work or not.

Correct. Whether we like it or not, 6 is the number.

When Fuente was hired, many people said "you can't judge a coach until his 3rd year. That's when his guys start getting into the system." Here we are after the worst year in 25, with not a ton to lean on for next year being significantly better, and we're kicking the can out to 6 years?? I know Frank didn't leave the cupboard fully stocked, but lets not act like we're building a program from the ground up. There are plenty of coaches and staffs that would not require 6 years - shit, Syracuse will finish in the top 15 this year, Iowa State will likely finish ranked. VT was by no means a tougher situation than either of those.

We had a historically bad year this year, have returning experience, and have a cakewalk schedule next year. If we don't win 9 games with next year's schedule, waiting until year 6 is not going to do us any good.

Yea, but you also can't just judge him on year number 3 alone. A 10 win season and coastal champs, followed by a 9 win season with a freshman QB, and then a disappointing 6 win season. We've seen within his first 3 seasons that he can succeed and compete with Clemson. I don't really think that one bad season should get us to "burn it to the ground" mode. I agree that next season is big for him in terms of us needing to see improvements in the program, but one bad season has us forgetting how much you loved him after 2015. Lets see if this year was just an outlier brought on by some crazy attrition on defense before we declare this a lost cause.

15 Straight

I'm not kicking any can, as I think any major rebuild is going to take six years, unless you've somehow caught lightning in a bottle. As I see signs of where Fuente is taking this program, and I don't think giving him time to get there is unreasonable, he gets the time he needs. The last thing we want to do right now is change head coaches, so his seat isn't really hot right now. I'm still impressed with Fuente; he's more substance than flash.

Any rebuild is going to be a process. We had some major setbacks this year, but I still see an incremental improvement. We were on a downward spiral during the final years of Beamer. What do you think the average time for a rebuild of a program that's on a downward spiral is? I'd suggest that it will normally take more than three years, even with a smooth transition like VT had.

Just off the top of my head - 3 teams took new coaches around when we did, all of which had much more challenging situations. Baylor basically blew up and they essentially lost a full recruiting class. Grobe went 7-6, Rhule has turned that to 1-11 and now 7-6 in 2 years, a significant turn around.
Syracuse has been a nobody for years in an area very difficult to recruit - after two 4-8 seasons, Dino went 10-3, they'll finish top 15.
Iowa State was also a complete nobody and after 4 seasons of 3 or fewer wins, Matt Campbell has back to back 8-5 seasons by the end of his third year.

Winning wasn't any easier at these places. In each, you can see at least a transition and move in the right direction. It's not impossible. Next year is the telling year for Fuente. His guys, a team with in-game experience, and as easy of a schedule as you can ask for.

Claiming VT is a 6 year rebuild is ridiculous to me.

Agreed, no power-5 "football school" should need 6 years to build a competitive team in one of the weakest divisions in all of P5 FBS.

Tennessee, Texas, Miami and a long list of teams would like a word about that. Hell Bama took a huge nose dive and arguably the best modern coach in the game to turn them around.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

First, I said "should", not that it hasn't happened. Further, incompetent staff/poor roster management is the very reason for some of those downturns, which is the topic at hand.

Sticking with: 6 year rebuild to be competitive in the ACC Coastal is weak af.

This.

Three years is the canary in the coal mine - first signal.

Fourth year should show us who we are, even if we aren't at full speed yet.

Fifth year is the longest I'm realistically willing to hold out hope that this guy can take us to a playoff. If we aren't on that doorstep in five years (not saying we make it in necessarily but that we are in the conversation at some point).

Six years? Nah my mind will be made up before then. That doesn't mean I'm going to fire Fuente after five years just that i don't think my expectations will change after he's been here five years - he's shown me what he got.

You really gotta get off of the Syracuse comparison. Two 4-8 seasons and one 10 win season is not the picture of success. We'll see how much of a turnaround that really is next year when he has a brand new quarterback in the system. I also don't think its a coincidence that the other 2 teams you cited are in the Big 12, where you don't need a defense and any offense can score. We've had one true subpar season with attrition that most teams not named Alabama or Clemson could handle and still turn into a 6 win season. A losing season isn't going to be the norm. Also what's your goal for Tech football? What would it take to make you think this program is "rebuilt"? Because if the standard being 9 or 10 win seasons and having a shot at the coastal and the ACC, with the possibility of a miracle playoff season sprinkled in, isn't your realistic goal for Tech, then the problem is your unrealistic expectations and not the program.

15 Straight

I mean his QB had started 25 games prior to this year.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Thank goodness someone else said it. We've got people going berserk over a 6-7 season when Fuente has gone 25-15 as head coach at Virginia Tech. Meanwhile we're pining for Dino Babers who has an 18-19 record at Syracuse and had more senior offensive starters (7) than we had seniors on our entire roster (6). 18/22 starters for Syracuse this season were upperclassmen while VT only had 8/22.

Secondly, Matt Rhule went 1-11 last year and managed the same 6-6 regular season record as VT did this year. Baylor lost to West Virginia by 44 points and lost at home to Duke by 13. That's the same Duke team VT beat on the road by 17. Yet Rhule gets credit for an "significant turn around" because Baylor sucked so badly in his first season that there was literally nowhere to go but up while Fuente needs to go because of a second hand paraphrased comment that "the defense won't have to win every game any more"? It's total insanity.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

WHo has said "Fuente needs to go?"

This discussion was about needing to give him 6 years, which is still beyond ridiculous. I didn't even bring up James Franklin and his turn around at PSU, or where Tom Herman has TX, be I knew they'd get shat on immediately.

I stand by the examples a good staff who can recruit well can show markable improvement in 3 years. You don't need 6.

It's actually pretty funny - some who are discounting Matt Campbell or Dino Babers improvement are the same ones who were arguing about how Fuente has 'improved' recruiting be of fractional differences in composite. In that argument anything >0 counted as improvement, why is that discounted here?

Either he needs to go, or he doesn't.

You can't argue it both ways.

If he gets three years, then his time is up. If he gets six years, he's got more time. Not sure what you're arguing at this point. Every team is different, and success is measured differently, so saying one coach "did it" in three years is rather meaningless. Doesn't mean every team can be turned around in that amount of time, or that if you don't turn a team around in three years then it can't be done.

Keeping Fuente or getting someone else is sort of a binary choice, unless you just want to tell him how to do his job.

You're arguing very passionately, I'm just not sure what your point is. If we're debating exactly how long a coach gets to complete a program rejuvenation, I'd err on the side of giving him too much time rather than too little.

Sometimes I struggle to understand what you're saying when you post, man. "You can't have it both ways". What are you even referring to? I've not said we should fire Fuente, ever.

My stance has stayed consistent wrt Fuente. He's got his staff and his recruits who will have in-game experience. Given the trend line so far, offense development, QB developlent, and even inclusive of the off-field variables, if he can't win 9+ games with the schedule we have next year, we'll have a very good idea of what we have. No need to keep kicking the can to year 5, 6, 7(?) just holding onto hope things change. A competent staff doesn't need 6 years to right a ship. This isn't building a program from the ground up. Even at our worst, we were still getting 60k at games and making bowls.

My criteria are more flexible.

As long as Fuente is moving the program in the right direction, and I think he still is, I'm 100% backing him. I sense that some people are saying "OK, he gets his four years and that's it". My opinion is that such an approach is short sighted.

I'm just saying that some people are trying to put too fine a point on it, with the "he gets four years", or "with a schedule like that, he better get 10 wins" comments.

I think public outrage often forces ADs to make bad decisions. As long as recruiting is on par, I believe a coach given more time is more likely to evolve and build a solid program versus taking a chance on the next guy and starting from scratch. Blue bloods have the benefit of selecting from a more proven coaching pool and they still don't always pan out.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

What do you think is a reasonable expectation for 2019? 2020?

Are those expectations based on a timeline you would have in mind for any head coach taking over a P5 program or are you considering the specific conditions present at VT?

I get the sense you prefer to impose a rigid timeline based on the perceived stature of the program. I don't agree with that approach and think you have consider the circumstances surrounding the program to properly evaluate the head coach. Tennessee has 100,000+ fans at every home game but they're on their 4th coach since Phil Fulmer and none of them have had a single season as successful as Fuente did in his first.

Personally I believe Fuente's potential is higher than what we saw in the 2016 season and I feel very comfortable with where that would position VT for the future. Attrition gutted the offense after 2016 and the defense after 2017 and he wasn't able to backfill the necessary talent and depth in 1.5 recruiting classes. Perhaps a better recruiter would have softened the blow for this season but I believe 2016 and 2017 would have been significantly worse with a good chance of us missing a bowl game. Ultimately, this season became year 1.5 of the rebuild as Fuente's plan to bridge Beamer's recruits to his players collapsed because of the aforementioned issues. I expect this to be rock bottom and would be concerned if things got worse next year, but I don't think it's unreasonable to wait until 2020 to expect us to develop into a legitimate top 25 team.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I think this will agree with your points shakeitallabout:

Bronco Mendenhall just finished his third year at 8-5 (4-4) and won the Belk Bowl over USCe by a wide, wide margin.

Granted, Bronco also lost to us, but they did better than we did overall in our same division.

Three years and Bronco is getting more from LOLUVA than Fuente is getting from VT. Now, let's not be disingenuous here. Bronco didn't have to maintain anything when he got the job, so he could tank the first two years in order to be good in year three. Fuente maintained (and improved) in years 1 and 2 but then hit a speed bump in year three.

Five years.

I don't have a problem with that. I think 8-5 is reasonable next year and would expect to do better than that in 2020. If the defense doesn't improve by then but the offense is top 40, staff changes buy another year or two.

Ultimately most of my disputes come down to my belief that it's going to take a special season for any coach to make the playoff at Virginia Tech. I believe Fuente can get us there, but most years are going to be similar to Beamer's teams that always lost a couple games that seemed winnable.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Honestly, at this point I don't expect playoff appearances. I expect to dominate the coastal and make a good showing in the ACCCG (see 2016 just without the GT loss). If we can sneak by Clemson then maybe we get to the playoff, sure, but what needs to be the priority is taking care of business in the first 12 games of the season. No more ODU type losses. No more head scratching losses to division foes. Maybe we lose a high profile out of conference game, but I'd be ok with that. Hell, the golden age of VT football was characterized by consistently playing and losing to top P5 teams out of conference and then dominate the ACC (2004, 2007, 2010 come to mind).

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

How did Fu improve from year 1 to year 2?

Sorry I might have been a little too generous there. I didn't actually look, I just thought back to how happy I think I was at the end of the first two years - which was, by and large, happy enough.

I suppose I should have said - instead of claiming there was improvement - that I was contented by our achievements in years 1 and 2.

we were left with Ricky Walker as essentially the lone NFL caliber player.

But we have at least 27 ACC calibre players, right?

Right?

right?

/sigh

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I said in another comment that next year needs to be at 10 wins and the following year needs to show that we can be competitive with Clemson. That's the barometer, and that's where the 3-year (or longer) fixation comes from.

Methinks you will be severely disappointed following the 2019 and 2020 seasons.

Is it basketball season yet?

Maybe. 2019 is looking iffy but we have a manageable schedule - Furman, ODU in the OOC; Wake from the Atlantic; Pitt and BC should come back down to Earth after losing a bunch of guys; GT will have a new coach and hopefully a new scheme; Miami will have a new coach. LOLUVA looks like they might be tough though. Ten wins might not happen but a major rebound (3 or more wins than this year) looks doable.

I certainly agree with you on the manageable schedule. However, if you are really looking for improvement, and the subsequent challenging of Clemson atop the ACC, a manageable (read weak) schedule only gets you W's not a better product/team.

I do think we will see a slight uptick in wins next season. But I'm not quite convinced that the team will actually be a better one than what we saw for most of 2018. That isn't be being a Debbie Downer, I'm simply basing that off of the fact that we saw very little improvement over the course of the season.

I'd love to be wrong here!

Is it basketball season yet?

A lot of the mistakes seemed to be mental, and due to inexperience, so I would expect that a year of offseason after that would yield some measurable improvement.

Yeah, but the problem with that logic is we made repeated mental errors that preservered throughout the year. That suggests to me that the problem isn't just youth and inexperience.

Also, not even having basic tackling form isn't a mental error.

True, but mental errors lead to missed tackles via bad angles, slow reactions, and a lack of aggression when second guessing yourself.

Agreed - the weaker schedule won't make a better product, but it will give our youth a chance to get experience and confidence and it will allow the coaches to experiment with the talent they have - all of these things I think will help put us in a much better position to be able to compete with Clemson in 2020.

Wake will be a tough game.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

That has been in the back of my mind as well. Their offense has been scary in a number of games.

Losing Their star WR will be interesting.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

For me it's real simple. I always love winning but I always look at who we lost to. And the trend for a long time has been consistently losing to ranked teams (at the point we play them). Since CF has been at VT, we have 7 losses and 3 wins against ranked teams. It is hard to make strides back to the good old days when these numbers are tilted against us. OC is a good place to start and tackling drills all Spring and Summer.

I'd be curious to see how a 30% win percentage against ranked teams stacks up to other programs.

Well. That was fun. See you all in 2019

Pretty much...

I like CJF's approach, values and character, but his job is ultimately about results. Thus far, his performance results have trended flat to downward. He needs to lead VT to a clear upward tend in terms of winning games. Stability is important, especially at VT, and CJF should be here through next year and probably through 2020,. If we don't see clear improvement in our winning percentage and level of competitiveness, by then, Whit will know what needs to happen.

With the offseason drama leading into the season... the whacky downturn of FSU, the crazy upset by ODU, the baffling tackling by our defense, the odd dismissals behind the scenes, the leaps to the NFL by most of our defense, and the inopportune injuries...

I'm willing to call 2018 a fluke.

We will be better next year. We have to be. Sit tight.

"Yeah, it do." - Mike Vick

I obviously agree we all want an upward trend, but a dose of reality matters here. The first recruiting class for Fuente was mainly Frank's team and he came in and salvaged that group as there was no time left. He has signed 2 classes of his own and only 1 are on the field for the first time.

Year 3 reality - Fuente's recruits are 18-19 years old playing against 21,22+ year old men. This makes a difference no matter who you are in CF. We have 6 scholarship seniors this year and 8 next. We are playing Fuente's recruit group almost exclusively. I dearly love Frank and what he did for everything VT, but the last couple of years the recruiting depth wasn't there and they took many shaky kids (Trevon was suspended From his HS when he committed as an example) to try and up the talent pool. Result was attrition in many cases (ex Joel Caleb, the TKP fan favorite Dwayne Lawson etc.) that is resulting in us having to play the recruits before they are field ready as there isn't anyone else to play. Fuente knew this upon taking over the program and made it known within the football circle this would catch up to them possibly.

Case in point - Bud is playing all LB's with no experience and a true freshman - never happened before. Why is that? bud forgot to coach? Doubtful - it was because the program had spaced out players who built their way into roles. They did not have any other options this year and opted to play the long game.

Here is the rub - the early experience should help in the long-term in theory if injuries and confidence are not shaken up too much. I believe overall it will help the O line, the Db's, the Lb's and QB. I'm not sold it will help the D line as much as we need more quality bodies. We are bringing in more quality players and given time and training the results will happen. Year 3 is seeing the results of almost nothing left from Frank's last 2-3 recruiting classes.

Last - A star QB covers a lot of problems. Root for this to shake out for someone taking a giant step forward and no matter what happens with the rest the win count improves.

Well-reasoned post. I really like what you said.

Seconded. Y'all gotta stop listening to Don V on Twitter.

"They'd rather win football games, you'd rather be sophisticated. Go like baseball loser."
-Colin Cowherd

#ALLMAROONEVERYTHING

My feelings exactly

Thinking about this season.... I'm actually surprised that we didn't see more of Hooker. Our current scheme (which I hate, but it's what we have and I'm nobody so it doesn't matter) depends on having a quarterback that can make plays running the ball once the field is opened up. It's why Cornelson keeps going back to it even though it isn't always successful.

Recruit Prosim

A QB who can run is a critical quality of the scheme that will help success, but a prerequisite to the offense is the ability to know the offense in order to put the team in a position for success. If a QB isn't playing and can run better than the current then you can bet this issue is a factor.

The defense finished 105th against the run and only Georgia State and UCONN(statistically the worst D1 defense of all time) finished below VT in 30 plus yard plays allowed. We can't stop the run and we give up backbreaking chunk plays at record numbers. Whomever coaches "tackling" abs proper pursuit angles needs to be seriously evaluated. On offense, we call way too many QB draws in critical situations- that tells me we can't run block or trust our passing game in those scenarios. So the offense needs to improve and mature enough to throw it on 3rd and 6 in our own territory vs a desperate QB draw. When you are 6-7 as Fuente said we can't have the next 365 days go like the last 365.

Wow. The untrained eye thought it was bad but did not know just how horrible our once heralded lunch pail defense has fallen. Yikes!

Nix needs to go. Apparently he and Bud weren't on the same page all season. Brenden Hill tweeted how Floyd was playing too close to the line to scrimmage which led to a big run and wasn't consistent with Bud's scheme. In game 13, that's a coaching problem, not player.

Mitchell should probably go. The DBs never got better this season. Some might say that for worse. I get that they're inexperienced, but by game 13, you should be showing some signs of improvement.

Cornelsen should 100% go. I'm not sure how he views the anatomy of a touchdown drive, but it's almost like he completely forgets the concept of picking up first downs. On 2nd and 4, you shouldn't call a fade, you should run. If all goes according to plan, you're looking at 3rd and short where you can run again. On 2nd and 14 or 3rd and 12, you don't run a quarterback draw. I hate to be an armchair coach, but it's that simple.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Your simple diagnosis is too simple. 2nd and short is the best time to take a shot downfield. Draws are pretty common on 3rd and long.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

2nd and 1 is a good time to take a deep shot because you can still run on 3rd and 1. 2nd and 4 isn't a good time to take a deep shot because running on 3rd and 4 and getting the first down is less likely.

Running a QB draw on 3rd and long with a 3 point lead in the 4th quarter is in fact not a good playcall when you are much more likely to pick it up throwing the ball.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

I don't remember what coach said it, but I seem to think he was a successful offensive coach. He said the secret to play calling is being willing to call a play that isn't obvious. Sometimes that means throwing on run downs and running on passing downs. All in all, it keeps the defense guessing. It is easy to say a misexecuted play is a bad play call, but it is never that simple.

Back on point, I would like to watch the game again to verify, but I think Willis called his own number on a few qb draws that were called pass plays.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Draws are pretty common on 3rd and long.

With all do respect, the 3rd down draw play effectively said, we give up on this drive and would rather punt to give Cincy the ball at the 50yd line, down by 3, than risk a throw. While I think the offensive coaches called a solid game overall, this decision and the two 4th down calls inside the 15yd line warrant discussion, in my opinion. Heck, even the decision to call a TO before the 4th down cutsie play, which gave a Cincy D on their heels a chance to regroup, rather than line up and knock them off the ball, deserves discussion.

I really think Cornelson and Fuente usually design a solid game plan and call good plays. They design some excellent plays like the QB roll out keepers or pass to Cunningham. My primary complaint with our offensive play calling is it often seems detached from the moment. Momentum and confidence are as much of college football succsss as the Xs and Os. Either Fuente or Cornelson or both squash it at the most inopportune times and it kills us.

Part of that is our youth, part of it is they don't trust rJR Ryan Willis to not make a bad play, but I believe part of it is they just don't have that innate sense of the moment when it's time to make a play.

I personally think you are misunderstanding the difference between a failed play and a bad play. Hindsight is 20/20.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Care to elaborate? Would you consider the designed QB draw on 3rd and 16 a failed play? That play had a near zero chance of converting for a 4th down and all but guaranteed we punt from deep in our own territory. We had mismatches outside with Kumah, Tre, and Hazelton that has a high probability of going for a completion or a PI but we played it safe, effectively submitting a short field to Cincy to drive for the game winning TD.

I agree it has a low probability of success. Here is the issue. It's cold, wet and your QB sometimes tries to do too much. The draw actually worked and Willis inexplicably slides. I'm not sure he would have gotten there, but that is not the time to slide. This is the issue with Willis - in the times he needs to go all out he overthinks, but in times where he needs to make the simple read/play he overdoes it. It's hard to play super aggressive in that environment with that dynamic knowing this issue.

Counter-point - give Willis a chance to evolve and make the winning play and show he can overcome his previous issues in being "that guy". I'm just not sure in the cold wet game that is the time. He had a chance to drive us down the field to win the game and he made the wrong read with the safety twice.

First I agree with what the poster above me wrote.

Second, the play had more than zero chance of succeeding but yes it failed. More importantly, there is no high probability 3rd and 16 play. My go to in that situation would be some sort of quick slant or screen with an opportunity to get YAC because throwing to the sticks is going to be very difficult and potentially risky.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Wow y'all sound like UVA fans. 😕

Because we had a "UVA quality" season. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd like to think our fans are better than that.

They are. That's why they aren't content with a losing season.

I don't know of ANY fans who are content with a losing season.

The difference between a good fan and a bad one is often unrealistic expectations, which accounts for a lot of sniveling.

Anybody think DeAngelo Hall at CB Coach and Cam Chancellor at Safety Coach would be good? They played at Va Tech and in the NFL, they are guys that young recruits could get excited about. Bly seems to have that effect at UNC with Roseman-Sinclair already. Those 2 guys I believe could help us with recruits and could be awesome coaches being they played for Foster at Va Tech and know the expectations and they were good in the NFL. I think we would see results on the field and on the recruiting trail.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Yes. They will be great college coaches for no other reason than that they are Hokies.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I didn't say that was the only reason, you read that into what I said so you could post this meme for legs...

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Read the community guidelines before down voting...I literally broke no rules.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

you read that into what I said so you could post this meme gif for legs.shits and giggles..

FTFY.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Fixing it would have involved lining through meme and putting "gif".

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

FTFYA. ;^)

(And next time, please take note of my signature.)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

/S?

RE: Hall, dude played multiple positions under multiple coaches, 3 time pro bowler, from accounts is a first class dude.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/28/deangelo-hall-made-impa...

"I think just getting the younger guys to understand practice habits, number one, how to prepare for games from a studying standpoint," Manusky responded when asked what the 34-year old has brought to the team this year. "Overall, just from a football knowledge, to talk to players across the board, not just the younger players, but even the older players, different techniques. That's what he was great at a long time."

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

/S?

Fo shizzle.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Would DHall be interested? Does he have the fire to be on the road, recruiting, etc? Cause if so, to me, he has a much higher upside than our current secondary coaches.

There are plenty of players who are bad coaches, just like there are plenty of people who are great at a certain job, but are terrible managers. It's a completely different skillset. I don't know why anyone would want us to hire a first time coach.

Twitter me

Our problem this year was lack of experienced players. The earliest class Fuente recruited was 2017. They were r-freshman and sophomores this year. Can't blame Fuente for personnel issues this year

It was also due to a complete lack of DL gap penetration or edge rush after THill left. While experience will be better in 2019, our DL play may actually be worse without Walker. We just don't have lunch pail quality talent on the roster along the DL - much like our OL a few years ago. 2019 is gonna be another year of frustration, I'm afraid.

I think our ends will be good. Tackle might be a bit rough, we definitely need to recruit there maybe add a p5 transfer if possible. But I don't think that one end position beside Hewitt will define a season. If we can get guys in the secondary to actually cover and tackle we'll be fine on defense

Following changes I would like to see (Most reflected by others):

  • Zohn return to WR, Wiggins to RB.
  • Removal of Nix. I didn't like the hire when it was announced and I don't see that it is working on the field or in coaching, and I have never liked the co-DC title with Nix.
  • Mitchell is either on the hottest of hot seats or gone. production is not there and it doesn't seem like growth over time is either.
  • Ideally, bring Torian "I don't have time to say hi to your mother" Gray back and make him co-DC and in charge of entire secondary.
  • Find the money and spend on elite recruiter.

I am not on the Corn has to go train. He broke records with a decent team, I want to see what they can do when their recruits are seasoned and able to execute the game plan. If he struggles then sure. Until then, which should be over the 2019 and 2020 seasons, I am willing to give him and Fuente time. I think a lot of the ire against him is with the notion that we hired an offensive mind and were expecting to have a high octane offense almost immediately despite the context of the attrition, injuries and lack of experience being considered.

Nix doesn't have the Co-DC title Galen Scott had it but Nix doesn't.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

excellent. one down...

thx for info, had thought he took over that mantle as well

Agree with Zohn, removal of Nix, hotseat for Mitch & DEFINITELY Co-DC for Gray. Only thing, I feel that Corn should be on the hotseat. Also, what do you think about Wiles as Co-DC (for the record, I'm not warm & fuzzy about it)??

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

I can agree with Corn though not as hot as Mitchell's should be.

Wiles would be fine, only in that he obviously has Foster's trust and there is no real danger of head butting. More of an administrative thing then to lighten the load. Gray is more interesting because he is younger and could potentially take over the role.

Gotcha. Yeah, I figured that's what you were going towards. Yes, I would absolutely love for Gray to be the undisputed DC outright, whenever Foster chooses to step away.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Gray isn't coming back to VT or any college team.. He's done playing the recruiting game.

didn't say he would, even snidely remarked about his disdain for recruiting in my original comment. But I would like to see that.

If there is any remote chance of bringing T Gray back, we need to explore it. I agree it would free up some cash and might be a nice enticement to name him secondary coach/Co-DC. Ideally you also move Lechtenberg back to an off field role and move J-Ham up to assist with secondary coaching. I have a feeling Bud isn't going to stick around too much longer. He's inching close to retirement, and what better way to keep continuity and identity with our defense than bringing back the dean of DBU to eventually be his successor. Recruiting would also likely benefit significantly.

Scroll up a couple of posts to where Choppin' posted about TGray being done with college. TGray is not happening.

Hamilton is already a defense QC guy on staff already and I think he's a much more realistic option to move into an assistant coach role if we were to make some changes.

Always amazes me how there is seems to be a shortage of solid QBs and coaches to fill the college ranks and play and coach when we have so many out in the world today.

It would appear we have several hundred at TKP \s

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Let's Go

HOKIES

Do you think they would be starters?
/s

Do you think they would be ACC caliber starters?

FTFY.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

At tight end maybe

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Whit reading this thread like:

Let's Go

HOKIES

Timing and circumstances lined up poorly for Fuente and Bud. In year 1 Fuente had a lot of talent to work with that all left after that year. WR's improved from last year to this year. As did the RB's and Keene. Fuente has been a bit unlucky at the QB position. Meanwhile, we had a great defense in Fuente's first two seasons, with an unbelievable regression this season. Some of that was out of Bud's control. A lot of talent left early, graduated, was dismissed or injured. While no one can be expected to overcome that amount of attrition, I think it is more than fair to say that Bud fell short in dealing with it. Our defense should've been better. He needs to identify why things went so poorly and fix it this off season.

But given the circumstances, I decided about half way through the season that I would treat this as year 1 for Fuente. If we don't get back to ACCCG in the next 2 seasons with a 10 win season, then I'll put Fuente on the hot seat.

I do think Bud may need to make some staff changes on his side of the ball.

Not sure why people are calling for Zohn and Wiggins to switch roles. Wiggins has been successful with the WR's and the RB's showed moderate improvement this season.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

Well put rationale post

This offense put up 30+ points in their final three opponents. Those three opponents were 14, 24, 27 nationally in S&P defense.

That's where we were to close the season. I'd say that's a good sign to head into a new year, esepecially returning damn near everyone of consequence.

Always choose joy.

But that's just three data points!

/s

enough to suggest a trend, considering its > 20% of a season.

🦃 🦃 🦃

That's the joke.

I agree. Offense had some long drives. More than their (in the past more often than not) one really great drive followed by crap, and the defense had to win the game.

30+ points on offense alone would be enough to win most of the games with the defense we had in years prior.

There were definitely some flavorful responses.

It seems there's a consensus the defensive assistants need to be changed, and Corny gets a chance next year.

This was a tough year all around, starting with last off season. Time to sit and wait in what happens moving forward.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

So. I'm confused...are we for or against mayo?

We put the K in Kwality

Against.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

For mayo, against cake.

Haters gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate, and hetzers gonna hetz

Using /s is for cowards.

But what about

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Looks correct to me.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Foster didn't forget how to coach.
Fuente didn't forget how to coach.

So, any changes yet?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

You won't have to ask if there are any changes if any changes come.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I was thinking about this and figure if there haven't been any changes now that we are about a week out from the end of the season, then there won't be any changes. Some of the dead weight on this staff may just sink Fuente's ship.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

I agree 100%. I think if changes were going to happen they would have by now.

I didn't expect any changes so I'm not surprised, just a little bit disappointed.

I think one of two things will happen in 2019.
1. Fuente knows something (several things?) we don't and he's confident that his staff is competent and capable. VT wins 10+ games. The more cynical fans are quieted and the general mood around the fan base is upbeat and optimistic. People remind the doubters that this team is right on track for a special season in 2020.

2. Fuente fails to see the short comings of his staff and it ultimately leads to another bad season. VT wins only 7 games (against a pretty soft schedule) and the fans are once again divided between cutting him loose and giving him another year. 2021 becomes "the year" and once again no changes are made.

Of course, I have no clue which of these will happen. Obviously I'm rooting for option one. I leave you all with a Jack Ma quote.

There are a lot of experts of yesterday. There are no experts of the future.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?