Thought Experiment - Dabo @ VT

I was curious to what people thought about this:

If Dabo had come to Tech back in 2008 (or whenever he did - and let's assume Beamer retired then as well and wasn't "pushed" out or anything like that), do you think Tech would be where Clemson is today?

Dabo, even in the early years at Clemson, was still reeling in 4 and 5 star recruits. I'd have to think that with an established DC in Foster (presumably Foster would've been retained) and Dabo pulling in the great recruits that he has that we'd be a monster by now.

Counter point: We didn't (and still don't) have the resources that Clemson does. To some extent even back then Clemson sells itself, and while Tech does that to some extent, we haven't been able to compete in that regard.

I'm sure there are a lot more factors for pros and cons, but I figured this is a start.

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Comments

Clemson was all in on recruiting before Dabo. He just supercharged their efforts.

We still haven't bought into it at the same level that Clemson was under Bowden. So no, I don't think we get to that level.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Why do so many VT fans have an inferiority complex? I don't know what Swinney could have done at VT but I refuse to think that somehow Clemson is/was so much superior to VT.

You can debate where the programs were in 2008 (when Dabo was hired), but Clemson is absolutely superior to VT in 2019.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Recruit: Hows the weather?
VT: It's great You love rainy days and balminess right?
Recruit: uh .... What are the girls like?
VT: extremely smart and light years better looking than PSU's!
Recruit: I'm not really looking at PSU.
VT: Fantastic! Our fan base will love it when you select us over PSU.
Recruit: uh ... I was just at Clemson and they were showing me around their sunny beautiful campus.
VT: Our limestone is amazing looking when its wet, which is 80% of the days ... did we mention that we had snow during graduation one year! This was before anyone mentioned the term global warming, we are trend setters!
VT: Do you love walking to class in the snow because we never cancel classes for snow.
Recruit: that's um great ... Do you have a slide in your athletic offices?
VT: No but if you open you jacket up when walking by slusher tower the wind is so great that you can fly like a squirrel! Just watch out for all the jagged stone buildings.

This is good stuff. Laughed loudly at

Recruit: I'm not really looking at PSU.
VT: Fantastic! Our fan base will love it when you select us over PSU.

In our defense, though, you could have been describing the weather in
Ann Arbor,
Happy Valley,
Columbus,
South Bend, etc.
And they do okay on the trail.

Obviously it's a combination of factors - on both sides, school and recruit - but the weather isn't what's losing us battles to UNC, Tennessee, Penn State, and the like...

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Oh yeah, I had a friend that went to Nebraska and he never understood how they got oline from Hawaii, it would be 10 below during their visits. There are a lot of places with shitty weather, but everytime I have been to Clemson it is gorgeous out and then women are running around barely covered.

Hawaii: why you going to Clemson? They don't even have a beach.

If it was all about weather Miami and Hawaii would be unbeatable, yet Ohio State etc.. keep fielding top notch teams.

My point is, players want to win. Coaches like Saban and Dabo excel at that. They would win at VT. Stop selling yourself short.

BTW Clemson avg December weather
High 55 Low 34 rain 9 days

BBurg High 47 low 29 rain 9 days

Not exactly tropical weather in Clemson during football season either.

Wait, wut?

Clemson was pulling in Top 10 recruiting classes before Dabo was named coach. Part of the reason Bowden was fired was because he sucked at getting that talent to produce results.

And their fundraising has long run laps around ours. IPTAY is the kind of program other schools dream to have (ours included)

Its not an inferiority complex to point that out when asked "would we have been as good with Dabo as Clemson has been".

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Clemson's success was part Dabo and part IPTAY.

No way we come anywhere close to replicating their success without a major overhaul of our fundraising strategy.

IPTAY was around long before Dabo. Clemson has recruited well and funraised well, again prior to Dabo. When they hired a good coach, good coordinators, and winning and recruiting at even a higher level, they started getting more in donations.

I don't agree for one second a marginal uptick in donations is what has put Clemson on the track Dabo has since his hiring. He deserves serious credit.

(Newspring church deserves credit too. kind of /s, but not really)

Yes, IPTAY has been around since the 1930's, but during the '00s they were able to dramatically improve their fundraising without the football success to back it up. On the other hand, we were doing little to nothing to increase Hokie Club donations during our run of success from 1995 through 2010, and now we're almost a decade removed from our last ACC championship and we have no momentum towards getting back to that level.

We'd be somewhere between current day Clemson and current day VT.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Fundraising is one thing, but Dabo has a personality that attracted the stars and convinced people to spur their home state / fav school growing up to come to Clemson.

My orange and maroon tinted glasses say that with Dabo we would be at Clemson's current level right now, or at least very close to it :D

Let's flip it...if CFB had jumped ship in 2008 to Clemson would they be where they are today? Discuss

Beams would have about four nattys

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, would we have a merry Christmas?

Idk about a merry Christmas, but every day would be erntedankfest

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Dabo isn't THAT good of a coach that he can go anywhere and win I think. He's a fine coach, but I don't think he's particularly amazing at x's and o's nor recruiting. The Clemson success story is a story about money, patience, and some good luck that snowballed over time into results.

Dabo isn't THAT good of a coach that he can go anywhere and win I think. He's a fine coach, but I don't think he's particularly amazing at x's and o's nor recruiting. The Clemson success story is a story about money, patience, and some good luck that snowballed over time into results.

Thats the thing.He doesn't need to be an X's and O's coach. He brought in an amazing O coordinator and (eventually) a great D coordinator, and he just brought in the recruits. Sure having the money helps, as well as being in a fertile / great location, but you're selling Dabo short completely.

Am I selling him short though? If what makes him great is not what he brings to the table himself, but who he hires to support him, but we can't afford the people he's hired than that goes back to the same answer of "no he wouldn't be successful here".

We could afford to hire the people he hired, but we would keep them, venables wasnt making $1 mil day 1.

You absolutely are. He brings plenty to the table as I stated previously: He gets the high caliber recruits to commit.

Ask any of the major 5-star players in the last 5 years and Dabo is crucial to getting them. He develops them, and promises to "make a man" out of them. You can argue that we do the same but that's what Dabo brings to the table that Frank, quite frankly (no pun intended) couldn't and didn't. Frank was the same type of CEO that Dabo was / is, but Frank near 2007 and 2008 wasn't as heavily involved in recruiting and closing with the big time players (as Tajh Boyd would tell you).

You can argue that we couldn't afford his staff and that would be a good debate, but if we got the high-caliber players that Clemson got when Dabo was just hired, I'd bet that with Bud on D and practically any half-decent O coordinator, we'd be miles better than where we are and were.

University of Nebraska owns recruiting in Nebraska.
Ohio State owns recruiting in Ohio.
Penn State owns recruiting in Pennsylvania with minimal competition with Pitt.
Clemson owns recruiting in South Carolina with minimal competition from USC.
Does anyone see a pattern here?
We struggle to get top recruits from our own state and still manage to lose to bottom dwellers like ODU and JMU.

Nebraska is an awful example. Few kids worth anyone else in P5 offering. Like anOSU,, Michigan and Texas football is a different animals there. I've lived in Ohio, fans there live for anOSU, they name their dogs and kids after things there.

PSU is in much the same boat we are the best kids there are getting poached to Baka, Clemson, ND, OSU a lot of years. That's why PSU is in VA so hard.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Someone ate Franklin's lunch so he eats Fuente's?

Recruit Prosim

Na, Franklin is just passionate about clock mismanagement and poor play calling in the last 2 minutes of a game. His passion is what attracts kids, they learn later that it might be miss placed.

So you're saying we lack passion?

Recruit Prosim

No, I'm saying that Franklin's passion for screwing up in the 4th dwarfs everyone else's passion. That guy sure love clock mismanagement. I assume he prays to an alter with shrines of Andy Reid, Denny Green, and Les Miles before each game.

Those states all have incredible pride and support of those schools to the point where it's culture. The ODU thing backfired on horribly, but exposure to the state is crucial. Growing up playing football in the 757 I heard more about the big southern programs than I ever did tech.

Idk how to fix the problem but location and school size are big hurdles.

Recruit Prosim

Though when were you growing up? Tech wasn't really anything before '95 and it really did take Vick and '99 to put VT on a national map.

And Weaver (God rest his souls) and Beamer love him forever, didn't really do anything to boost recruiting or the overall profile of Tech with that appearance. They failed to see what the future of college football was and try and get ahead of the curve.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This hurt bad.

Recruit Prosim

I graduated HS in 2011. I played football throughout our most successful era in the ACC.

Recruit Prosim

Patience here because JF has only 2 of his classes and has a ACC championship appearance . This is now his team his culture and his recruits . The full transition has taken 3 years and we were in decline . This year we will still be incredibly young across the board but he has the players in place that he wanted for his vision . Looking back there is no way we could have been successful last year with the attrition the defense took from the year before . It was a a disaster graduation ,players leaving early ,kicked off, injuries we were playing with at times like 3 of our top 16 players from the year before . The inexperience on defense was at every level no way to hide it .
I was encouraged playing 3 very solid teams the the defense played really well for 2-3 quarters in each game and looked like the old VT defense at the end of last year . We made progress and a lot of young guys got experience. Just no way we could hide the inexperience we had to go through last year . I think the defense makes significant improvement this year and the O will be very good and we will start to see if JF is the coach we think he is. It is his baby now !

Coastal 1

Oh I agree. I'm all about JF. This was just a thought experiment that popped into my head.

Same level? No. We just wouldnt have the players they bring in.

But we would be in a great place I think. Dabo is a fantastic guy to have as the face of your franchise and while we probably wouldn't be bringing in top5 recruiting classes, I bet we would definitely be reaping in the rewards by now in terms of recruits.

He's also a guy that players seems to unconditionally love. 100% a players' coach.