Foster Discussed Wiles' Departure

I thought it was neat Foster honored Wiles with the lunch pail (and also D-Tapp is the only other person bestowed the honor).

"I was disappointed," said Foster, who will be replaced after the bowl by Justin Hamilton, a former player at Tech who will add defensive coordinator to his current job description as safeties coach.

"Coach (Fuente) knows how I feel about Charley. Charley knows how I feel about him. I was involved in his recruiting. We go way, way back. I love him like a brother. ... I know he was extremely disappointed and hurt. I was hoping he would stay and coach this game, because he deserves to go out the right way, just like I did. He's been as big a part of this growth and development as I have been, and I feel that way, but he's going to land on his feet."

It's a cutthroat business and these coaches are well-compensated, but I have to imagine it stings a lot more not only because of the Foster-Wiles relationship, but because of the family atmosphere Fostered by Beamer.

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/college/virginia-tech/vp-sp-hokies-bel...

https://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/va_tech/tech-defense-looks-to-hon...

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

I understand the whole "it's a business" angle to this decision, but I'm having a hard time rationalizing Wiles being fired.

I'm a huge fan of what Justin Hamilton did at Virginia Tech as a player, but the ONLY way his promotion to defensive coordinator makes even half an ounce of sense is if the priority in hiring him was continuity of the defensive system. I don't see how replacing a veteran coach in that system (who incidentally did a fantastic job coaching his position in 2019) helps in that regard.

This is the opposite of an "I trust in the coaches" move. This is the kind of decision that keeps me from being 100% sold on Fuente's ability to run a program.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

but the ONLY way his promotion to defensive coordinator makes even half an ounce of sense is if the priority in hiring him was continuity of the defensive system.

From all accounts, Bud has stated that JHam has whatever the "it" factor it takes to be a DC. Not just hoping to keep the same defense.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Honestly though that's incredibly vague and doesn't prove anything

No one proves anything until it comes to the recruiting trail, field, or bad PR. Fully agree that I don't understand it, but this his defense now, and I am sure we will all have plenty to say about it.

@hokie_rd

I understand the whole "it's a business" angle to this decision, but I'm having a hard time rationalizing Wiles being fired.

.
I agree with this, but that being said if this ends up with Tapp + Teerlinck as the DL coaches, I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Found this video on Teerlinck, I understand why Fuente would want that combo over Wiles.

I don't see how replacing a veteran coach in that system (who incidentally did a fantastic job coaching his position in 2019) helps in that regard

I think adding a 12 year NFL veteran + a former head coach/DC at multiple schools + a former NFL DL coach is a damn good start (and we're already starting to see that with the Alec Bryant commit, Bryant doesn't come if Wiles is the DL coach). I think everyone is scared to shy away from Foster's system but I don't think it's a bad thing that other perspectives are finally going to be in the room (especially if Foster hangs around as an analyst). I don't think Fuente/Hammer are going to completely abandon what Foster put together but I don't think it's bad that tweaks are going to be made.

Also, Hamilton is wanting to get bigger on the line with different techniques being taught, and Wiles wasn't onboard with that idea. I appreciate all that Wiles has done for the football program, but there is a need for change. Not change for the sake of change, but change in order to make VT competitive for the division title and then to challenge Clemson's reign of supremacy.

“Who is this Fuentes person that you speak about?” -McHokie540

Also, Hamilton is wanting to get bigger on the line with different techniques being taught, and Wiles wasn't onboard with that idea.

Who said that?

Yeah I have no idea where this narrative got started but there's nothing publicly stated that this was Hamilton's preference. Hearsay on 247, TKP et. all is the only place I can find this story.

Additionally, Fuente's recent comments on recruiting mentioned something about a new emphasis on recruiting "longer" dlinemen in the same sense that we currently emphasize this for db prospects. His comments didn't directly state that the coaching changes were a reason for this, but you can read between the lines a little.

I totally agree with your last point, I think some changes in the defensive system are probably a good thing. But that's my point, if you wanted change, then you could have gone with a guy like Teerlinck, who has an impressive resume and a proven track record. Putting Hamilton in charge of the defense is a huge risk.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY want Hamilton to be a great defensive coordinator. It's the only way we have a chance to get back to an elite level nationally. Hamilton is being handed a defense with 10 starters, and there's proven experience and talent at every position. But he's also following a legend, and there's going to be a TON of pressure on him in 2020.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Putting Hamilton in charge of the defense is a huge risk.

I agree but putting together a stellar supporting cast (which they're able to do because they're not going to pay him at much as Foster) really helps to mitigate that risk. Reminds of when Steve Kerr took the GSW job with zero coaching experience but his assistants were Ron Adams (20+ years of NBA assistant coaching experience), Alvin Gentry (25+ years of NBA assistant/head coaching experience) and Luke Walton (at the time, a talented up and coming head coaching prospect). Obviously, GSW was a perfect situation to get into and it could have gone way worse for Kerr (he apparently was close to taking the Knicks job over GSW), but I think Fuente is going about it the right way.

I also think there would be an inherent power struggle between Wiles and Hamilton if Wiles stayed. Hamilton is more free to "be the man" if there isn't vestiges of the Foster staff under him. That's pure speculation on my part.

I also think there would be an inherent power struggle between Wiles and Hamilton if Wiles stayed. Hamilton is more free to "be the man" if there isn't vestiges of the Foster staff under him. That's pure speculation on my part.

This was actually one of my concerns with Claeys being brought in as "just" a LB coach and because he's been a DC at other places and this is Hamilton's first time at this level. I've been in situations where I've been leaders over people that are more experienced than me and while it's important to rely on their experience, you have to set the tone early that you make the final decision. From looking at Hard Knocks, this is where things got out of hand with the Cleveland Browns...well one of the many things.

The whole "it's a business" thing can't be applied here at all considering Wiles is one of the top defensive coaches in the country. "Business is business" refers to cutting loose someone for an upgrade where prior sentiments don't apply because the improvement needs to be made. You can't upgrade from Wiles. It'd be more accurate to say "business is a popularity contest not a meritocracy".

Did we have one of the top defensive lines in the country this year?

So if you're evaluating this as a business decision, and not a popularity contest, how does that fit into the analysis?

I'm not following the meritocracy vs popularity argument in this situation. It does seem to me that some changes may be needed on defense.

We were working with freshman and mid to low 3 stars for the line this year. Considering that we had a pretty damn good unit. We have consistently had one of the best in the country during his tenure, and even in this down year we were definitely in the top third of the country

But whose fault is it that all we had to play were freshman and low to mid 3 stars? And our defense had a few good games this season but all the talk I heard before the season started was that the schedule was weak.

I'm saying we've slipped a bit on defense, and with Bud's departure time for some changes in defensive coaches if we want to win the ACC.

We slipped for ONE season, and bounced back to a top 40 defense the next year with the same personnel. 2017 was a top 10 unit.

Our offense has been better than our defense once under Fuente.

I'm fine with us moving on to a new style, new assistants, new personnel preferences, but I'm not having this bullshit the defense was slipping narrative. Even in 2016 the defense ranked higher than the offense. Fuente/Corn have been outdone by our "slipping" defense in every year but 2018.

Top 40 isn't the characteristic VT defense. So yeah, the defense slipped a bit the last two years from their characteristic spot. Credit to Bud and Wiles that the expectations are high.

I see no reason for the fingerpointing. What we can't have is blaming Fuente/Corn, and casting a blind eye towards the defense as if it's sacrosanct because of our history. There is room for improvement all around. My feeling is that when Bud decided to retire, JHam and Fuente should be allowed to make coaching changes on the defense. Their jobs are the ones on the line. I appreciate what Bud and Wiles have done - it's been a spectacular ride. As in other organizations, I think the guy(s) in charge gets to make staffing decisions. I'd have been OK with keeping Wiles; I'm also OK with some changes. Justin Hamilton should be allowed to put his own stamp on the job.

I haven't run the numbers, so feel free to correct me, but I'm guessing the offense has improved from the last few Beamer years under Fuente, even with the inconsistencies over the past two years. It certainly feels that way. While this year was disappointing, I'm expecting improvement over the next two, as our offensive guys get more experience. I'm also expecting the defense to improve under Justin Hamilton.

Curse me not knowing how to make tables on TKP, it makes me feel very stupid.

Here are the SP+ rankings for Offense and Defense For the last few years of Beamer and to Fuente:

(Offense | Defense)

2012: 63rd | 8th
2013: 77th | 1st
2014: 86th | 11th
2015: 57th | 18th
2016: 39th | 21st
2017: 71st | 9th
2018: 41st | 77th
2019: 60th | 38th

Though my argument would never, ever be that Loeffler was superior to the FuCorn offense, they haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire either by the standards that we expected.

Agreed. While I'm ok with Wiles moving on and us going in a new direction under J Ham, the decisions and hires Fuente has made tell me that he thinks the defense is what needed to change and we simply need to get more production from the RBs on offense. I disagree because I think that doesn't change the fact that the CornFu offense has been underwhelming thus far, and I have serious concerns of whether or not we are going to be aggressive enough in game planning to take advantage of our opponent's weaknesses. I honestly thought we ran the ball fairly well down the stretch. But now everything is fully on Fu. If the defense is terrible, and/or if the offense continues to have issues next year with all the returning talent, he has nowhere else to lay blame IMO.

Not sure how you say the decisions and hires Fuente made. If this is JHam's defense, he should be able to change whoever he wanted. If it's Fuente making all the calls with JHam being the Defensive Coordinator in name only, not sure why he'd take the job. And if Fuente was making all the calls on who to keep and get rid of on defense, why didn't he just take over the Defensive Coordinator job like some other head coaches do? I don't think you can read anything into what's been happening with defensive coaches as what Fuente thinks we should be doing. Bud was retiring, we knew this was coming. If we'd hired from outside the program, do you think there wouldn't have been any changes? And I don't think I have EVER seen Fuente blame anybody else. I think other people blame various things, but I've always seen him owning bad performance.

Seems to me that your numbers are proving my point. Certainly enough to trust Fuente for another year, as our young team starts off with some experience under their belt, and the right QB at the helm.

Seems to me that your numbers are proving my point.

Considering you've been making excuses for the poor offensive play for years now, and have regularly claimed in many game threads the defense isn't performing up to snuff, I don't feel like this statement is accurate.

My point is that both the offense and defense were inconsistent this year.

We still managed to go 8-4.

I'm expecting improvement across the board next year, as our team overall has a year of experience under their belt. Also, I'm optimistic about the coaching changes we're making.

It slipped last year, and this season was on extreme course correction up to 38th with damn near the same personnel. The defense was substantially better this year with largely the same guys out there, that reflects extremely well on our defensive staff.

The offense was supposed to be even better this year and it was notably worse.

This year was a tale of two offenses. One at the beginning of the year under Willis, and one at the end of the year, under Hooker. I saw a vast improvement, which I'm betting will continue into next year.

My perception (and this is reflected in the numbers you presented) is that the defense wasn't what we have come to expect for VT football. In two of those games, UVa and Notre Dame, we watched our lead disappear as our defense looked helpless against strong opponents late in the 4th quarter. I'm saying the defense could stand some improvement.

Don't get me wrong. We had some good defensive games. Pitt and GT reminded us of old times.

But if we want to beat Clemson, we'll be needing improvements on both sides of the ball.

Don't speak a word about Notre Dame unless you're willing to acknowledge what was one of the worst offensive performances in the history of VT football.

The defense lost the Notre Dame game in only the sense that they gave up the game winning TD.

The offense didn't do jack shit the entire game. 13 points. If they had even had a remotely mediocre performance it doesn't matter what Notre Dame does on that last drive.

one of the worst offensive performances in the history of VT football.

This would be one hell of a list to put together but i'm not sure that makes my top 10.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Its definitely not number one for me, but that was a painful watch when we had the ball.

Maybe you shouldn't speak another word until you look at #15 ranked Notre Dame's record this year.

How many teams scored more than 20 points against Notre Dame this year? Two.

How many teams scored more than 20 points against Notre Dame this year? Two.

But 8 scored more than 13, which is what our offense got us.

We were playing our third quarterback for the season.

I wouldn't necessarily beat up our defense over that game, but I also can't blame the offensive staff for it. I just remember the feeling of helplessness as we watched Notre Dame go 87 yards for a TD on their last drive.

What I have difficulty with are those who want to say that we only had problems on offense this season. That's not what I saw. We went 8-4, and came damned close to beating #15 Notre Dame with out backup QB who had seen limited field time before that.

Our offense was atrocious in that game.

4/16 on third down

2.7 ypc

5.0 ypa (9/28 passing)

3.7 ypp

Absolute garbage offensive performance.

Notre Dame has a good defense.

We played the game without our starting QB, and damn near won it.

and damn near won it.

...because of our defense, in spite of our offense.

That all-time great Notre Dame defense was 25th in SP+ Defense, by the way.

We were in a position to win it because of our defense. We also lost it because our defense couldn't stop them on their final 18-play, 87 yard drive.

I didn't say Notre Dame's defense was an all-time great one, but it was a pretty good one overall.

I seem to recall a lot of bullshit calls that went Notre Dame's way in that game. And I don't know how you just say our offense sucked in that game without acknowledging that we had our 3rd string QB (who is a redshirt freshman) in there. Our second string (Willis) played one series, right?. So yeah, not a great offensive performance, but there's a reason QBII isn't our starting QB. And don't forget, we have two true freshmen on our O-line. And our O-Line has been getting better. So yeah, our defense has in the past been very good, but I really think our offense is getting better, ignoring the play in one game (ND).

But if we want to beat Clemson, we'll be needing improvements on both sides of the ball.

Do you think getting rid of Zohn is enough to get us there offensively? I don't.

No. I think better QB play and another year of experience for the offense might be enough to get us to the title game, though.

We'll be needing improvement all around, AND a lot of luck to beat Clemson in the near future.

I hear you, but I could go back and find countless quotes (across the fanbase) like this in all of the preseason threads this year.

I'm expecting improvement across the board next year, as our team overall has a year of experience under their belt.

Our offense was notably worse this year, despite the experience and one of the easiest schedules in the country. Coaching changes had to be made on the defensive side of the ball with Bud's retirement, so I think we're all hopeful we'll see improvement there. However, I don't know how long into year 5 we can continue to push 'hope' and 'trust' and 'more experience' with the elephant in the OC booth. Statistically and observationally it is still the weakest link. '8-4' doesn't serve as a panacea when we're losing to BC, Duke, and UVA.

I think Fuente and Cornelson have earned another year.

I'll be reserving judgment until I see what they can do when their players have another year of experience on the field over what they had this year.

Do those numbers take into account "offensive philosophy" in the defensive metrics? We were running the ball far more often (and more effectively) back in the Beamer era, scoring less quickly etc. leading me to believe opponents had less possessions compared to now (this is just a hypothesis, I haven't actually looked at the numbers).

Would make sense the numbers post-Beamer went down because of this alone.

SP+ is adjust for tempo and strength of opponent, it looks at each play on it's own, so it won't be impacted by playcalling on the other side of the ball.

Twitter me

I love coach Wiles and I believe him to be a fine coach but I am doubtful of the assertion that he is "one of the top defensive coaches" in the nation. Again, coach Wiles is an excellent coach but I am on board with Fuente's moves. Bud pushed for Hamilton's promotion. Clayes brings experience, Tapp will be able to recruit the 757. I don't think Wiles was all that strong a recruiter, at least lately, and I am certain that if Hamilton really wanted to keep Wiles, he would have been retained. Overall, we are seeing a youth movement and a move for better recruiting, especially in Virginia. There may be other reasons we do not know about. But I wish coach Wiles had agreed to coach in the bowl.

The whole "it's a business" thing can't be applied here at all considering Wiles is one of the top defensive coaches in the country.

Uhhh I like Wiles, but come on, man. Wiles has been teaching the same technique for 20+ years, never put discernible talent in the league, and is a decent recruiter, but below average when it comes to recruiting his position. He was a fine coach for us, but let's be real.

If we want to get better on D, our recruiting and DL play needs to evolve. Sad to see him go, but this IS business, and it was probably time.

We have put as many defensive lineman in the NFL as any position on the field (maybe with the exception of DB) the last 25 years.

Since 1996 here are the VT defensive linemen drafted:

JC Price
Cornell Brown
John Engelberger
Corey Moore
David Pugh
Chad Beasley
Nathaniel Adibi
Darryl Tapp
Jonathan Lewis
Chris Ellis
Carlton Powell
Jason Worilds
Dadi Nicolas
Tim Settle

6 of those 14 players were drafted in the first 3 rounds. My fellow TKPers, please stop spreading the myth that Virginia Tech has not produced NFL players on the defensive line.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

The issue is in the NFL they aren't DL or have any longevity: (reverse order) Settle True DL, Nicolas LB, Worilds LB, Powell DL (2 seasons), Ellis LB, Lewis DL (4 games), Tapp long NFL DL career, Adibi DL not a single NFL defensive stat, Beasley played offensive tackle for the Browns, Pugh 4 games 1 tackle in the NFL, Moore LB ( May have had better career but got shot), Engelberger (honestly had the best NFL DL career so far), Brown good NFL DL, Price not a single game or stat in the NFL.

So of this list 3 with quality NFL careers at DL, one still working on theirs, and 2 with some stats at DL.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

That was one of the things I always remember hearing about some of the guys who really shined on our DL - they were under-sized for the NFL. So yes, they got drafted, but not as D-linemen. So yes, Wiles coached people well, but heard he liked smaller guys with good motors. If we want to recruit NFL talent, one of the easiest ways is if we really do get Teerlinck. "Yeah, I coached NFL lineman so I can get you ready."

So yes, Wiles coached people well, but heard he liked smaller guys with good motors.

Wiles didn't specifically target smaller DL. Otherwise, how does that conclusion account for Da'Shawn Hand, Tim Settle, Clelin Ferrell, Andrew Brown, Korren Kirven, Derrick Nnadi, etc...? Those were all sizable Tech targets, the biggest of which thrived with the Hokies.

I mentioned this in another thread, Wiles and Tech prioritized twitch. Unfortunately, so does every other blue-chip program. And the recruits with elite burst and size more often than not sign with the rich, and Tech was usually left to sign the ones with pop plus a frame and add weight as best as possible.

Fair enough, like I said, that was something I'd heard at one point. And if we targeted bigger guys but they went elsewhere, that seems like the recruiting issues I keep hearing about. If we really do get Teerlinck, given his coaching history, that seems like it might go a LONG way to winning recruits.

Whether they played DL in the NFL is irrelevant. If they had NFL careers, that's a positive.

How have VT's other positions done in the NFL? Have we had a bunch of good NFL RBs? Or LBs? Or QBs? No. We've been above average at WR, and top 10 at DB. Our next best position has probably been QB or DL. So again, TKP please stop spreading the myth that VT doesn't produce NFL defensive linemen.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

How is it irrelevant if they don't play DL in the NFL if the point you are trying to make is Tech is getting DL players ready for the NFL. Look at that list again, Tech isn't recruiting quality players that make quality NFL DL.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

My point is Virginia Tech puts defensive linemen in the NFL. Period. Who gives a shit if they played defensive line at Tech AND the NFL?

You think Jason Worilds cares that he was moved to LB in the NFL? He made millions of dollars, and it would have been TENS of millions if he hadn't chosen to retire in his mid-20s.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Again, look at the list. A handful of guys each decade isn't exactly portraying VT as an NFL DL factory. Look at what Clemson, Bama, LSU, Ohio St., etc are doing. Plus a top-tier DE or DT is going to command a bigger contract than a LB unless you're just an absolute physical freak.

I never said we were a NFL DL factory. I said that if you played defensive line at VT the last 20-ish years you had as good a chance of being drafted into the NFL as any other position on the team, obviously besides DB.

Hokies drafted since 1996:

QB - 3
RB - 7
WR - 10
TE - 3
OL - 13
DL - 14
LB - 4
DB - 26

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why so many people here won't accept basic arithmetic.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Just getting into the NFL isn't good enough for the top-end recruits- they want to see a pattern of developing NFL veterans/stars. Just looking at the list you provided, the defensive lineman arguably had the second least collection of talent out of all of the position groups.

Wiles Coached DL. That is all. Any of the other positions at VT and how many got Drafted there had little to nothing to do with Wiles.

You used a List of DL, which many noted:
1) Included multiple players who didn't play at VT in this Century
2)Showed a trend of even fewer players drafted over the last 10 years
3)Many of the players did not even play a full NFL Season and some never Recorded a Stat.

So, yes, VT has arithmetcially put DL in the NFL. Just very few recently and very few who have had major success at that level.

Recruits notice things like that. Opposing coaches surely bring it up. It has hurt us on the Recruiting Trail.

Whether the reason behind the lack of NFL DL is a recruiting issue, scheme issue, technique issue, or player development issue (and how much or little is Wiles responsibility) is a separate discussion.

I think if someone wants to play DL, or thinks they have the possibility of that, maybe they do.

But you have to consider relevancy particularly relevancy in Recruiting.

Current High School seniors were probably born sometime in 2001-2. A good portion of the guys on your list played at VT before they were even born.

Our record of putting defensive lineman into the NFL during their lifetime simply has not been good.

Who gives a shit if they played defensive line at Tech AND the NFL?

Recruits.

Twitter me

No they don't. They want to play in the NFL and make NFL money.

Players switch sides of the ball all the time just to play for free in college. From Justin Hamilton to Duane Brown to Logan Thomas to Divine Deablo, they switch positions. Why? Because it's their best chance to succeed. You think they won't gladly do the same thing to make millions in the NFL?

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

It's a pretty unconvincing pitch to say "We'll get you to the NFL somehow. You'll play DT here, but in the NFL you'll play DE or OLB. Trust us, it'll work out." If you were a recruit who heard this, why wouldn't you just go to a school that runs a scheme that translates directly to your NFL position group fit? Wouldn't it be much easier to recruit if we could say "We're going to play you at DT, make the best DT we can, so you can be a great NFL DT."

Twitter me

Jason Worilds unfortunately could never recover from a shoulder issue. He dominated with one arm his whole career. Give him a healthy shoulder and his name is up there with Bruce and Moore. By far the most underrated player in Tech football the past 15 years.

Gobble Till You Wobble

The first 11 names on your list account for 1996-2008 (just under 1 draft pick a year).

The last 3 names on your list account for the back half of your timeline (~0.25 pick a year).

You just described our overall recent NFL draft history, not just the defensive line. We've had 3 players or less drafted in 7 out of the last 9 seasons. Including none last year.

We haven't had a QB drafted in 5 years, or a tailback taken in 7 years. Since 2001, we've had 2 QBs and 9 defensive linemen drafted. We've had 5 LBs taken since then.

The reality is that DL has been one of our most productive positions the past 20 years as far as producing NFL players. Again, let's stop spreading the false narrative that VT doesn't produce NFL defensive linemen.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Assuming nobody gets drafted in 2019 (for the purpose of running the numbers), we can divide 1996-2019 into 4 groups of 6 draft classes:

2014-19: 17 DPs, 2 DL (12%)
2008-13: 21* DPs, 3 DL (14%)
2002-07: 30 DPs, 5 DL (17%)
1996-01: 20 DPs, 4 DL (20%)

Assuming 22 players and a 4 man front, the expected rate of success is 18% of the draft yield. Overall we've had success pretty close to normal 14/88* (16%).

I am not assigning any narrative or myth, here. I'm just crunching the numbers. I can't recall which season we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3, but that would figure favorably into the earlier years as well.

(* Brent Bowden is not included in these numbers, as a punter would skew the assumption of a 22 man team)

Are your numbers for defensive line drafted players on the DL at Tech, or that played DL in the NFL? As someone else mentioned, a significant number of guys that played on the DL at Tech played other positions and I would argue shouldn't count as DL draftees, they should count as whatever position they played in the NFL (linebackers and others).

Part of this has to do with recruiting. If a guy wants to play NFL and they look at Tech, our selling point is, yeah, we get guys drafted, but if they look at it and THINK about it, the narrative is, yeah, I may get drafted, but I'm not learning my position, I'll have to learn another position in the league. Ideally, we'd recruit guys who would play DL in the NFL. When I think about it, yeah, maybe Wiles likes guys with motors, but if you could choose a big guy with a motor vs a small guy, why wouldn't you take a big guy? Maybe you want a quick guy so you think go small, but given our problems with mobile quarterbacks, it doesn't seem like that should be as important as other characteristics.

I believe we had the same 14 players listed on Hokiesports.

On the recruiting end, we still managed to pull in blue chip DL recruits.

But since 2006, only Jason Worilds (fka Jason Adjepong) & Tim Settle came in as a blue chip and left as a drafted DL:

-Nick Acree, Zack McCray and Kris Harley all ended up not significantly contributing.

-Wyatt Teller and Nijman ended up being successful on the OL.

Take that list...then remove all the guys that were at VT more than 10 years ago.

Plus, other than Engleberger and Tapp very few had long careers or were considered stars.

Then go look at the list of DL NC State has had drafted in the last 5 years.

If you are a Recruit, which list is more impressive??

DL was not and has never been the problem. As far as putting guys in the league, guys like Derrick Hopkins and Dadi Nicholas were too small to ever play in the league but were still incredible on what could've been championship D lines in 2011 (just Hopkins) and 2013 if our offense had been worth a shit.

The saying if it "ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind. For someone who has called Fuente and this staff "Group 5 level" and prioritized quality experience when selecting a coach, spinning getting rid of Wiles (who has 20+ years of success at the highest level) is a weird take indeed. Unless you're just cynical about our program in general...

I tried to warn y'all about Willis before the season started. I see this playing out similarly. Just don't be surprised when opposing qbs have all the time in the world in the pocket.

DL was not and has never been the problem.

Our DL has been pretty weak the last few years.

guys like Derrick Hopkins and Dadi Nicholas were too small to ever play in the league

...largely because CW didn't land more gifted players. CW is a great coach, but it helps a lot more when you're starting with a frame and ability of Tim Settle, and he couldn't get those players consistently.

The saying if it "ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

We haven't won a conference championship in 10 yrs, we're coming off our worst season in 26 years, and just signed our worst recruiting class since recruiting rankings were a thing. The program could use some fixing, definitely a refresh.

For someone who has called Fuente and this staff "Group 5 level" and prioritized quality experience when selecting a coach, spinning getting rid of Wiles (who has 20+ years of success at the highest level) is a weird take indeed.

I have said that - mostly in regards to guys like Corn, whom I am still very Bearish on. Fuente and others have had to learn many things on the job too, both in execution and recruiting, which have cost us wins. Coach Kill was able to help address some of those areas, and some of those unprepared coaches are no longer with the program. The program needs a refresh. I am a little nervous about Hamilton being very green, but Tapp and Teerlinck would be a strong improvement at the position and would give the program new blood.

Unless you're just cynical about our program in general...

The list of things I love more than VT football is short. I'm not cynical about the program, I want to win.

I tried to warn y'all about Willis before the season started. I see this playing out similarly.

No clue what this has to do with Coach Wiles. I said in my OP, he was a good coach, but it is business. He was basically given tenure as long as Bud was here. We don't owe him indefinite job security if the on-field product (and recruiting capability) isn't giving us a better chance to beat Clemson (or Duke, UVA for that matter) and win the ACC.

Just don't be surprised when opposing qbs have all the time in the world in the pocket.

Our inability to rush the passer has been palpable the last 2 seasons. With half a pass rush this season we beat ND and UVA, and multiple games last year.

The coach's don't recruit by position so I don't really think we can blame Wiles for all the Dline recruiting issues yall see. Thats a shared blame to go across the staff.

Look I get it, a lot of people want to see change and fresh faces on the staff. Wiles might as well have been Bud's brother so the more I think about it, the more both parties moving on makes sense. I'm excited about the potential of the new coaches and the rumored ones to come, but we really can't ignore what Wiles helped accomplish during his time at Tech. As shown in earlier comments, he helped Bud build the LPD without elite talent on the Dline. His coaching allowed us to develop decent recruits into really good college players. I know his lineman don't have the best history of making the move to the NFL but think about the guys he built into high end college players that just didn't fit NFL schemes: Ricky Walker, Woody Baron, Ken Ekanem, Luther Maddy, Skip Hopkins, John Graves, Antoine Hopkins, Orion Martin, James Gayle, Nekos Brown and thats just going back to 2009. I'd dive in to the 2000's but i think you get my point. I think at this point we need to be excited about the future and just appreciate the past. This program doesn't reach the heights it has without Charley Wiles.

Also, what might be even more frustrating is with all the experienced young, talented guys now returning and with the depth coming in from the guys that redshirted, this D-line has a chance to be special next year and Wiles will get zero credit for it. I'll put money on it some people on this board will say something along the lines of "We should have moved on from Wiles earlier. Look how this new coach has these kids playing".

Gobble Till You Wobble

Geographic coaching recruiting hands off a recruit once they have identified and made first contact to position coaches.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I know how recruiting works and I'm very aware the recruiting coach gets involved and is a key point, but the geographical recruiter from what i've seen still plays a major role and at times is still the lead recruiter. He doesn't deserve to take 100% of the criticism was my point on that. My main point though is i don't want to sit here and critique a guy that just got fired from a program he helped build.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I don't think we'll really be talking about Wiles next year.

Wiles was Bud's guy. He and Bud did some great things on defense. But it's time to look to the future of VT football. With Bud's hand-picked successor, no less.

That's how it should be and i hope we don't but I'm also just saying i know how TKP works and thats bound to happen.

Gobble Till You Wobble

The geographical part is definitely secondary. It's why you see Vice lead on every single OL prospect, and Corn lead on every one our QBs. If you want to push blame around, I can get that, but that list is probably going to be inclusive of Bud, Frank, and Fuente, and no one else. At the end of the day, it was Wiles job to fill his position group (and maybe Bud, Frank, Fuente to help close), and he wasn't doing that part of the job at a level high enough to win the conference, especially of late.

I don't think anyone is really critiquing him, either. Most posts (mine included) have been about how strong of a coach he was, but we can't act like this just came out of nowhere and is in no way justified. Recruiting is a big deal in the game now, and if we're going with a different approach, technique, and new leadership to our defense after Bud hung it up, there was bound to be some fallout.

I would like to add that Wiles/Foster used to offer recruits that were not on the radar, and not a lot of stars by their name and the next thing you know big schools would jump on the kid's bandwagon and offer. These two made a lot of chicken salad in their day with their kind of player, and other schools noticed.
I will miss Wiles and Bud, and all things end. But I would have to say that Tech got some unnoticed players out of high school and made them into solid college talent. Wiles DE's were sometimes suited for linebacker instead of DE, but the bottom line is that many of the guys would not have been noticed with out Wiles/Foster and their coaching/scheme.

I am all for moving on if this is what is best- not trying to make any arguments, but Wiles did a hell of a lot for Tech's team. He will be missed.

My understanding is that JH wants to not only recruit a different "type" of DL but also wants to use the DE differently from the previous system.

In that sense, regardless of tenure and likability, it did not make sense to keep Wiles from a pure football standpoint.

While in the short-term that may be painful, I can certainly see the potential long-term benefits, particularly in Recruiting, where (like it or not) we have not produced many NFL-caliber DL. It's an easy target for opposing teams.

While I think Wiles departure could have been handled more gracefully and do wish he was coaching in the Bowl, ultimately you have to do what is best for the team.

Also, while we may never know exactly how everything occurred, I regard this as likely a Hamilton decision not a Fuente one.

Recruiting, where (like it or not) we have not produced many NFL-caliber DL.

This is a knock on Wiles because many of his linemen were often labeled as tweener, not having the body and size to be playing against NFL-sized offensive linemen.

I think this is a trend in the right direction and if the next DL coach (Tapp and whoever else) can produce NFL-caliber players, that will be a boost to recruiting.

“Who is this Fuentes person that you speak about?” -McHokie540

Regarding Wiles not coaching in the bowl, there's a point to consider that I haven't seen on the board. If Wiles wasn't going to be kept, it would be unethical at worst and in extremely poor taste at best to interview and possibly hire a new DL coach before letting Wiles know and/or go. For that matter, the same goes for the position coaches who were also relieved. I do realize that back room handshake deals are made all the time sometimes months and years in advance and maybe I'm naïve, but I would appreciate them telling me to my face first.

Also if Wiles plans to continue coaching, this move gives him an extra time to secure a new position.

It was Coach Wiles' decision not to coach the bowl game. Don't blame him a bit, but it's not like we walked him to the door with a box of desk stuff and a security detail. I understand why he wouldn't want to coach that game, though if he had, I'd have understood that as well. Hopefully, he's got offers to consider and now is the time to concentrate on his future, not VT's. I wish he'd coached, but hope he lands well and wish all the best for him and his family.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

McDeremet runs the same type of defense that Bud does. So there shouldn't be a problem.

What's
Important
Now

It's a cutthroat business and these coaches are well-compensated, but I have to imagine it stings a lot more not only because of the Foster-Wiles relationship, but because of the family atmosphere Fostered by Beamer.

I don't see Wiles' firing as "cutthroat" at all. Wiles was Bud's guy. He was never going ANYWHERE as long as Bud was here. Fuente appropriately gave Bud autonomy with regards to the defensive staff.

With Bud's retirement this year, Hamilton and Fuente have to look at every staff position from a "what have you done for me lately" perspective, and with an eye to the future. This is an opportunity to make some changes in the coaches on defense. Hamilton/Fuente are making some changes. We don't even know who Wiles' replacement will be yet.

The defense hasn't been what it was in the past. I think we can appreciate Wiles' contribution, while at the same time remaining optimistic about the future of this defense under Justin Hamilton, and accepting more changes on the defensive staff.

It was time. Sucks. But it was time. Could've been smoother - wish he coached the bowl game.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

I'm ok with letting Coach Wiles go. It's time. We're behind the curve and need our D Line to get big in a hurry and disruptive. In fact, we need our defense to bully opposing teams like mascots do pee wee football teams:

Let's Go

HOKIES

That's a god damn closeline. There's no place in mascot-pee wee football for that kind of play!

You can see that Mr. Red immediately recognizes that it was a dirty play.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Kid was probably talking junk and caused the mascot to go Hulk Hogan on his ass.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

one good play from the D-line does not make a good Dline. pizza (?) cant shed a block, pancake (or cokie?) is getting pancaked, tiger gets cracked down on and doesn't maintain his gap, mascots were physically dominates at the point of attack looks like just a great play call bringing the big red guy of the edge blitz much like VT does the whip. for all purposes this highlight is the EXACT problem VT has on the DLine. cant create pressure without blitzing and making the correct play call at the correct time. Even with the above highlight we probably gave up a 3and18 to these kids sitting back in a zone D.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Disruption

😂

Let's Go

HOKIES

As a Cincy native, that is surely supposed to be a LaRosa's slice. They put too much sauce in the pie and that crust surely was too soggy to hold up against any kind of blocking. Gapper, the Reds' version of the Phanatic, comes off the edge hard and lays the kid out, which is right up his alley. More surprising is that Gapper didn't hand the kid a baseball right after the play. Also, Bengals mascot getting blocked by a player half its size, not shocking.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I think...that in about 99 out of 100 coaching changes Bud and especially his assistants would have already been gone when their head coach retired 4 years ago.

With absolutely all due respect to Charley Wiles, I think everyone knew this was coming at some point. When Bud voluntarily retired he had to realize that it wasn't just going to carry on exactly the same only without him.

I gotta wonder if Wiles was given serious consideration for DC. If so, and the young up and comer beat him out, there may be fear of there being some hard feelings.

I have no problem with it. I wish he was coaching the bowl but I'm honestly ready to stop having sentimental moments about the Beamer glory years and am ready to start writing a truly new chapter for Hokie football.

"I am probably too rational to be here"

I may be drunk at an airport bar but that last sentence has me ready to run through a brick wall.

*dork magic intensifies*

-Stick it in

that last sentence has me ready to run through a brick wall

Let's Go

HOKIES

It's definitely a bummer that Wiles is leaving but the more I think about it, the more I see this off-season as a "ripping off the band-aid" kind of move. With Foster retiring and the smaller recruiting class, it makes sense that this would be the time to make bigger changes within the program.

It's a tough business, but Fu danced with the devil when he kept the Beamer guys around. It's hard- if not impossible- to not do a clean break when you take over from a legend.

I really can't say that Whit and Fuente could have handled it any better than they did. Whit had to replace a legend. Fuente took over for a legend while keeping a legend under him and is now replacing that legend.

This was really the best time for Fuente to take over the defense and make this 100% his coaching staff. When Beamer was coaching this was 100% his team even with the Defensive reigns completely in Buds hands. When Fuente took over, I never really thought of the defense as part of Fuentes team if that makes sense.

The bottom line is this:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going in a new direction.

However, there is a wrong way to say goodbye to a guy that faithfully coached his nuts off for you for nearly a quarter century.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Agree with everything, but regarding this part...

However, there is a wrong way to say goodbye to a guy that faithfully coached his nuts off for you for nearly a quarter century.

I mean, from the sounds of it, Wiles would not have been happy unless he was keeping his job. Some times there's just not a good way to say goodbye.

Twitter me

I based my comment off of the fact that in an earlier thread people were saying that Wiles was completely blindsided by the whole thing and that he and his family didn't know until way last minute. Not to mention, I think if you put that kinda time in and produce the way he did, it warrants some recognition. Not just a pink slip and "good luck." Even if there is some animosity between him and Fuente because of the decision, his time here was bigger than that.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Maybe it's me, but at some point we need to stop living in the past and look towards the future. I don't think retaining every coach we've ever had from the Beamer era is a good look when we try to start recruiting fresh talent.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

It has been a good ride. I look forward to the future.

Not asking to live in it. Just respect it.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

“Who is this Fuentes person that you speak about?” -McHokie540

Do you all think you will be able to wrap this argument up before the Belk Bowl? Or is this thing just going to keep going?