Preseason All-ACC Team

Preseason All-ACC team was announced this morning. No Hokies on the list.

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Comments

How could there be Hokies on the list? It's pretty much Clemson's entire lineup.

Oscar could've gotten a shoutout for punter

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Beamer's last guys (2015) would be RS Seniors this year. You can't really put this on Frank, we need to develop and sign more talent to compete for ACC Championships

Then it's a good thing that until this class more 4 stars had been signed and joined the team than any other 3 year period in Hokie football uh.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Sure helps that's there are an increasing number of 4 stars around the country every year.

Unless the ratings services have really changed that's not true. Top tier star players correspond to draft potential and it goes up and down without a set limit for needing so many players to be 4/5 each year.

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And the list is above is not limited to seniors. In fact many underclassmen from other schools are on there- imagine that. Joel Caleb, Nick Dew, and Holland Fisher were 4 stars. Jack Tyler, Cody Grimm, and Sam Rogers were zero stars.

Wait so now recruiting stars don't matter I'm so confused.

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It matters when you have glaring holes on the roster, yes. It matters when those holes are being filled with guys that have offers from Eastern Illinois and Liberty- yes recruiting stars matter. Now that that is clear... trotting out the number of 4 stars we signed 2 years ago, is fine but would be better if a couple of them were all acc type players going into their 3rd fall camp here.

But loluva only had 27 ACC-caliber players last year and are gonna win the Coastal this year!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

This is a ridiculous assessment. If this is true post season there is a point. Pre-season never plays out. Everything is based on last year's production. Are we surprised that last year's team doesn't get all acc votes yet.

I'm reserving judgement until these kids have a chance to prove themselves.

holland fisher and joel caleb were recruiting class of 13. nick dew was '10

what does that have to do at all with the list being seniors or underclassmen?????????????????

what does their recruiting ranking have to do with the number of years of eligibility???????????????

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The "we are signing more 4 stars" party line is tired. Cool, let's develop some of them into all-acc type players instead of blaming Beamer for not leaving Fuente with 30 all americans.

instead of blaming Beamer for not leaving Fuente with 30 all americans.

who was doing this???????????????????????????????????? you set up your own straw men and then attack them with non-sequiturs. it's low-key hilarious but man it can be frustrating sometimes.

You know how this exchange reads?

"we need to develop and sign more talent so we can have All-ACC quality players. Frank's last guys would be r-SR this year so we can't blame it on him"
"okay, well the three years right after frank had the most 4 stars in program history"
"YEAH WELL JACK TAYLOR WASN'T A FOUR STAR, STOP PUTTING THIS ON BEAMER! OUR CURRENT STAFF ISNT DOING A GOOD ENOUGH JOB. DON'T FORGET ABOUT NICK DEW! HE WAS A FOUR STAR"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The best thing is that he started on Twitter, knowing what he was going to get all riled up about when the news got posted here.

(add if applicable) /s

Yep, I tweeted what I tweeted and said what I said. It's time our "improved recruiting" shows up on the field.

Sometimes dc, you make up the opposing side to an argument that no one is supporting before the argument even happens. I don't think a single person here saw this list and thought "Fucking Frank leaving us with an empty cabinet, 0 2019 preseason All ACC players and it's all his fault."

(add if applicable) /s

And I totally said that.. lol

but even after he set up the straw man argument of Frank Beamer leaving the barn empty, he anticipated the argument of "we had the best three year run of four star recruits in program history" and decided the best way to defuse that was to cite a few four stars who didn't pan out when coached by.... Frank Beamer?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

A simple search will show you your first statement is not a strawman argument at all. Been said on here a thousand times.

That argument being made in the past has no bearing now. It was justifiable (to some) in the previous three seasons to pin under performance on recruiting at the end of Beamer's tenure plus the transitional class. We all know that is no longer a tenable position because nearly all of Beamer's players have aged out. Find me someone making that argument for this season.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I agree 100%

Then I am absolutely lost as to why you're insinuating that people are making that argument in regards to this season in your tweet.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Were you this bad when Beamer was coach? Or did you always hate Virginia Tech in general? Asking for a friend...

What's
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Now

Let's cool it with the DC hates VT rhetoric folks.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Or he could tone down his negativity. Seems to be the most logical.

but is coming after him again after he comes around to agree with us really the best idea?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I was just trying to find the last comment of the spiral. I didn't realize that he was being positive. My bad. My question still stands though. I'm really just curious, has it always been this way?

What's
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The negativity is a daily thing. Honestly, I'd be happy if he no longer contributed to TKP. At some point, the negativity gets out of hand. I think we've reached that point.

what on earth would we do around here if it wasn't for dcwilson? i hope he keeps posting. I also hope he better represents what he's trying to say.

it seems to me that you're confusing "negativity" for "poor discourse". This thread is a great example of how a lot of us agree with what dcwilson thinks he is saying, but not at all with what he's actually saying to try and arrive there. should he stop inventing arguments to have? yes. should he do a better job of expressing what he wants to express in the first comment and not the eighth? yes. should he stop commenting? i dont think so.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

To me there are two main reasons someone should no longer be commenting on TKP.

1. A racist, sexist, or equally offensive comment. We've all seen Joe bring down the ban-hammer for this type of behavior.
2. Constant bashing, negativity, etc that brings down the culture of TKP. This is where I see dcwilson. At this point no one takes him seriously because he's always so over the top with negativity.

"Everyone agrees with free speech until they hear something they don't like." ~R.G.

I'm a big fan of free speech. I'm also a big fan of calling people out when they bring others down. IMHO, dcwilson does not contribute to TKP in a way that adds value. If he did, his posts wouldn't be downvoted so often.

So call the man out, don't suggest he no longer posts because you don't think he brings value to TKP.

And people downvote him because they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater just because he's dcwilson. "I agree 100%" has downvotes πŸ™„ I'm not saying he shouldn't change how he he posts. Just that saying we'd be better off is myopic at best.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This would be a boring place if we all had the same opinion. DC usually has very valid points hidden behind his unusual choice of wording. I also suspect he quite enjoys a little back and forth, with no better way to do that than being a bit polarizing. Truth is, he more often than not spices up a comment thread even if the trigger is anger.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

TKP Proposal:

Joe, I know you're busy and development isn't free but something that I believe would help this site. Limit the comment cascading and put the extra's behind another URL. Would probably help with mobile loading times and just the overall look of comment sections.

(add if applicable) /s

Nobody said it here in this thread in this context except for you bringing it up to try and defeat it. Finding a thread from any time in the past only puts us closer to Beamer's tenure, not further. Just let the (weak, poor, etc) excuse die with time along with whatever meager supporting data it may have had. No realistic person is trying to argue that Fuente isn't responsible for this team, but you still seem set on trying to win that argument.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's time our "improved recruiting" shows up on the field.

you should have led with this πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ 2019 with the schedule we have is a make-or-break year for this roster.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Preseason ranking isn't on the field.

Nobody:
dcwilson40:

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You're just a little bit broken, aren't you

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

I also may have misunderstood him, but if his initial point was something along the lines of:

"'The most 4* in a 3 yr period' is great in name, but the fact that we've signed a lot of .89 and .90 WRs and athletes, all while not signing any ACC-caliber DL, and continuing to have major holes of non-P5 talent in portions of our roster, doesn't lead me to believe all is well on the recruiting front"

Then I'd agree with him.
If that wasn't it, Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―

I interpreted it as "Our recruiting numbers have shown some improvement, but Fuente needs to develop/deploy his guys," which I also agree with.

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That's the thing. Everyone hates on dc but he's generally got decent things to say he just always says it in a way inviting someone to challenge him and that's the part that always go south.

(add if applicable) /s

Further down, he says he's not sure if the 2019 defense was bad because of talent or because of experience... I agree with that! let's see after this season if we have any All-ACC performers and if we have any pre-season all-conference player going into 2020. but it's not worth throwing out the entire roster because a bunch of overmatched freshmen and sophomores (some playing out of position) had to learn the hard way on the fly

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm cool with that...

I'm guessing that bringing up Nick Dew, who is almost 30 now, as evidence that Fuente is not developing talent probably blew a few minds.

Leonard. Duh.

Clemson really is recruiting and developing players at level far above the rest of the ACC, I don't think it's unreasonable to have this many tiggers on the all ACC line up. Would be interested to see second and third team preseason all ACC teams.

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Or the rest of P5.

foresthokie
US Navy Vet

Right, I'd imagine there will be quite a few Hokies on the 2nd and 3rd teams at the end of the season.

That's the story for me for 2019. did we struggle last year on defense because the players were simply inexperienced? Or just not that talented?

I think it was a perfect storm of inexperience, personal life issues, late add to coaching tree that didn't quite mesh, and transition recruiting.

The transition recruiting is still an issue in that we don't have lot of seniors on the team, but it's better than last year. But it should be better than last year. We are still a young team, we just have experience now.

This would have been an excellent first point. I agree 100%.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

So many tiggers.

A little brutal, but leg for context.
Reminds me of Happy Tree Friends (that was some hysterical gory cartoons).

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Oh bother. Beavis & Butthead just roasted Piglet again.
From Calvin & Hobbs

UVA is a great place to take a dump.

Wow. Only 7 of 14 teams had players listed:
Clemson - 13
Syracuse - 4
Miami - 3
Boston College - 2
Florida State - 2
Duke - 1
Pitt - 1
LOLUVa - 1

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Lol 4 of the 5 OL are Klempsun

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

OL grading is so subjective but without a ton of film watching lazy media members will just put the team with either the best passing or running game's OL on the list. In this case Clemson has both lol.

Stew Mandell had a good point about this on the Audible this week... Mitch Hyatt started 4 year's on Clemson's OL, played in two natty's, but didn't get drafted. So basically, the media isn't that great at identifying OL talent.

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Lots of these picks were lazy picks from the best team. Either that or the OL quality in the rest of the conference is truly deplorable. Tanner Muse has no business being anywhere near a first team at safety. He's a box safety in a world that doesn't use them. He gets abused in coverage.

Also Mekhi Becton is almost certainly the best tackle in the ACC, but he plays for Louisville (you may remember we were recruiting against them for his services a few years ago). He absolutely should have been on the team over Tremayne Anchrum who was consistently beat by elite pass rushers throughout his career.

Tremayne Anchrum anagrams to Mercenary Ham Nut

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I can't really argue with not having any of our players on there. who would we really argue could be considered first-team All-Conference at this point?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Hazelton and maybe Ashby.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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first team???

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Hazelton was second team post season All ACC and at least two 1st team WR's left. Did he get worse over the summer?

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I think the comment pertains more towards the Ashby remark

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

That's why I said Maybe. I'd have to research the players that were voted in.

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Look no further than the NC game against Bama. The Clemson receivers were incredible

Hazelton absolutely has a case considering T. Terry from FSU has 35 rec, 744 yds, and 8 TDs where Haze has 51 rec, 802 yds, and 8 TDs.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Maybe i think about pre-season teams a little differently in that i see them as forward-focused and predictive

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

In which case, why would you not expect a bigger year with a starter that has proven chemistry, more receptions, yards, and a softer schedule?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

sure, that's fair and valid. Or maybe he's a possession receiver/red zone threat who got passed as the #1 option by the end of the year and his production dropped off. but that's probably giving voters too much credit for the attention they probably don't pay

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Recency bias could also be at play. Hazelton did most of his damage earlier in the season.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Are we even to the conclusion Hazelton will be our best receiver on our team this year? My money is on BPT to be our top guy.

I've made a few posts recently, and I am convinced based on production that Haze is our #1. Tre has had some great plays, but they are mostly flashy, his production isn't as high, and he doesn't have the same physical tools as Haze at the moment.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

That's true. However, Tre was doing it as a true freshman. To me his ceiling is much higher than Hazelton.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Man watching his melon bounce off the ground hurts me.

(add if applicable) /s

Wait that couldn't of happened that's all ACC, 1st round NFL hall of faker Bryce Hall.

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That's why I'm so glad the games are played on the field instead of on the typewriter of uninformed writers.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Bryce Hall got his can handed to him all game that day.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

That doesn't mean he will be better next year though. Tre is going to be 19 going into the season, Haze will be 21. He had his FRS at Ball St then a red shirt with us and a great sophomore campaign. Haze is way more physically developed and has had an extra few year to mentally develop his game. Tre may be better when all is said and done but I think Haze is still the guy to beat this year.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Unless Willis had a real come to Jesus moment about forcing the ball to Haze, he will lead in targets again this season.

Oscar Bradburn got slighted big time

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Clearly Xavier Burke and ... oh wait.

So you're telling me Clemson is good at football.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Clemson is a joke I use to regularly fill out the entire pre AND post season all-ACC teams with Hokies on career mode in NCAA13.

Dabo aint on #mylevel

Hokies will have a 1st team WR and 1st team LB when it's said and done.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Wrong thread. You can submit your bold takes here.

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Either Tre Turner or Hazelton is a lock if they stay healthy at WR - may be our first pair of 1,000 yd receivers in a single year given the schedule and O-scheme. Clemson has Etienne and a great defense - they aren't getting two first team WR's regardless of Lawrence.

LB is the bigger stretch, but Dax and Ashby both have 100+ tackle year potential. Dax seems more obvious, but I think Ashby is a poor man's Vince Hall and can keep improving at Mike if he is in-shape. Miami's not getting two 1st team LBs.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Well, one positive to this will be "bulletin board material"!!! My guess is that there will be some feelings/anger over "no respect"! The motivation may come in handy during those long fall practices getting ready for the season.

I view pre-season all-conference lists about the same as I view watch lists. Nobody's done anything, and everybody is being watched.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

They certainly have no effect on what will happen on the field in 2019, that's for sure.

But the pre-season all-conference lists (and watch lists for that matter) are reflective of what players have done in the past. And it shows that we don't have much proven talent on our roster.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

and everybody is being watched.

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Will I be glad when the season starts so the debate will focus on what happens on the field. Tired of who recruited this or that recruit and why the preseason teams and polls are so right or wrong.

Can we at least get to Hype Vid szn.

(add if applicable) /s

Is Billdozer going to have enough highlights from last year to put a video together? Might just be a GIF this year.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

It'll be a lot of the FSU game for sure