OT: VT incoming freshmen class largest ever; Tech working on solutions.

https://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/virginia-tech-offers-some-incomin...

Virginia Tech is offering some incoming students money to not attend the university for up to a year โ€” a move that comes in the wake of an overenrollment crunch.

Tech's oversized freshman class, which is anticipated to have more than 7,000 students, would strain the infrastructure of the university and town of Blacksburg, officials have said.

In an effort to ease that, Tech is offering a group of 1,559 incoming, in-state freshmen in specific programs financial incentives to skip the 2019-20 school year in Blacksburg โ€” or at least a semester. The university has budgeted $3.3 million for the program.

I know there is a lot of angst about this upcoming class and future growth at Tech.

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Getting paid to redshirt.

Or take your freshmen classes close to home and have Tech pay for them!

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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The numbers always work....

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VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

This looks bad for the University in my opinion. Seems like our admissions office can't even count.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Hey man, you gotta offer way more than 25 scholarships to land a recruiting class. They have to assume that many of the students who are accepted are also accepted elsewhere and will choose not to attend Tech. If you don't make that assumption, your freshman class is way undersized. When you do and the assumption is wrong, you get 7000 incoming freshmen and you have to tell 1500 in state students that their offer is not exactly committable...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

They have to offer more people than they can accept because some kids will choose another school they got into.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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But there is data that helps them make this decision. Its not "they can't count," its "they screwed up the calculation somehow."

Happens everywhere. A few years ago when my buddy started at UVA med school they offered the same thing to his class because too many people accepted their offer of admission. The data is based off projections and previous classes. You never know when a bunch of kids just really want to go to Tech over other schools.

Right. There is a range. Not everything fits in that range. Or even dead center of that range. Sometimes it all lines up and its not 65% but 85%. It happens.

Of the kids asked to redshirt, there will be a percentage of them that will not ever attend Tech. Or will do 2 years elsewhere. Or will skip the $ and plan to attend anyway.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

It's theorized that excitement over the Amazon HQ and their partnership with VT is what may have led to the increased offer acceptance rate.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'm fully aware of that and guess what, it looks bad! It's known that Sands wants to turn VT into Penn State size. Clearly, they are attempting to do that, which devalues the VT experience IMO and it looks bad when this shit happens. I haven't ever heard of this happening prior.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

He and the BOV have repeatedly denied that so I'm not sure how it's known.

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Early 2000s they were begging freshmen to live off campus because of over acceptance. Prior to then freshmen had to stay on campus. Not sure of the rule now.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Correct, this has been happening since at least the early 2010s. Sauce: wife is a townie and was paid by tech to live off campus her freshmen year

VB born, class of '14

Can confirm at least back to 2008 where they were turning study lounges into three person units in Pritchard, asking freshmen to live off campus, etc.

By the late '00s they were back to requiring freshmen to live on campus, but a couple years ago they relaxed the rule again.

All these schools use enrollment management algorithms and this is a situation where it backfires. EM is overall pretty fucked up and has contributed massively to the enormous increases in cost of attendance across the country. It has made it to where schools constantly build new buildings and lazy rivers and shit at schools though.

The numbers always work

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Looks bad, but probably the correct strategy (although, I admit, the execution might be off). It's just like when airplanes overbook seats - they do a ton of analysis to determine the optimum number of seats that should be offered, and they weigh the risk of overbooking.

Given Sands' growth strategy (which I disagree with, but I digress), this probably isn't a bad outcome.

Twitter me

Not to sound like a miser but, it also kind of sucks for people that live here permanently to keep stuffing more students and quick apartments and parking garages in. The small business seem to have a lot of turnover regardless of the incoming populace. It SUCKS to try to get around town as it is. It's just so packed in with no room to breathe it seems.

Maybe it's anecdotal, but it feels like this happens a lot. It's like we error on the side of admitting too many people.

This is like expecting 5 friends to show up for a BBQ and 30 people show up instead. This is a big oops, not a little one.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Give the class size and numbers, it's like expecting 7 people plus you, so you have 8 burgers and 8 seats. And 8 people show up, making it 9 including you.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

So then what is your choice? Do you make everyone eat a little bit less and most everyone goes home hungry or do you kick on out of the BBQ?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

In this specific example, you give one person $10 to go to Chick-Fil-A, or Cook-Out, or home, or wherever.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Or give the. $10 today and offer them to come back tomorrow with an entirely new set of friends for another BBQ

Who tf has only 8 burgers for a cookout for 8 people?

The only option that seems really appealing is taking courses at a community college, transferring them in, and getting a tuition credit once at VT. Kind of a win-win. My only concern would be acceptance of credit. I thought Tech did away with transfer equivalency credit for a lot of science classes at VCCS schools in the past several years.

That could be why they are only offering it to specific programs. If its only for CLAHS or business students science credits may not be an issue.

Additionally, it gives students a way to knock out a full year + any additional work they did in AP classes in high school, meaning some may be coming in with all of their core work done and as essentially Juniors, whereby they would only have to focus on in major coursework, graduate from Tech in 2 years, and only have 2 years worth of student loans to pay off.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

From the article, it looked like mostly engineering and science majors (most popular at tech) being offered the deferral options.

I know someone who used some state program to guarantee transfer to VT after earning an associates at a community college, I think in 2015. Though I suppose it could have changed since then.

Guaranteed transfer programs with several state colleges, JMU, UVA, VT, are available through any Virginia Community College.

Has anyone pitched a hunger games like deal? Maybe at orientation say that only the first X get to schedule classes then throw some broken beer bottles into the crowd and let the problem sort itself out?

Maybe don't offer more than you can handle? Make admissions harder? This is something that Tech needs to fix because addressing this issue on the backend will prove to be far more costly than getting ahead of it in the future

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Maybe we should go back to inventing the future.

Seriously though, it seems like they could avoid this by accepting fewer and more aggressively waitlisting kids. If you get a full class from initial acceptance, great. If not contact the difference only off the waitlist and say they have a week to respond or they lose their chance. Rinse and repeat.

Maybe also incentivizing early decision and forcing that to be a commitment to attend? I know some schools (no idea about tech) have made early decision non-binding just to get another round of applicants through but that just seems to add more uncertainty.

Isn't NerdMagic in college admissions (or was)?

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What Pamplin told me when I was going on a visit was, Early Decision doesn't mean anything to them, it doesn't mean that you really want to go there. So they basically told me unless I had a 4.2 with a pile of extracurricular then don't bother

Maybe don't offer more than you can handle?

30-40% of accepted students attend VT for freshman year. If VT only offered the 6600 students that they can handle you'd end up with an incoming class of 2000-3000 students. That doesn't work.

Make admissions harder?

Mean SAT scores for the freshman class has increased each of the past 3 years after staying relatively consistent the previous decade. Admissions is becoming more selective, however its being offset by the application changes in recent years that make it easier to apply to VT and recent projects that have increased interest in VT. That's not a bad thing

Judging scores from 2010 (for example) against this years scores isn't a very clean comparison. There have been adaptations to the SAT over that time. For example, incorrect answers no longer carry a penalty.

So...

SAT inflation? Rewarding a different test-taking strategy?

For SATs, you have to go with the percentages.

Do you know that they adjust for this "inflation?"
I don't know about you, but I've never seen an SAT score communicated in percentages.

For some reason I always thought the scores were based on percentile. Like, obviously if you got everything correct you got an 800, but (for example) a 700 for one year means you scored better than the same percentage of people as someone who scored a 700 in a different year.

That sounds like the FE exam for engineers

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

I used to help teach an SAT prep class and had never heard that, but it's possible. Wouldn't that require a standing knowledge of how test takers did during the current testing "season," though? Like if you were in the first window of that season there would be nothing to base it on except other students that took it on that day or earlier when of course tests scores could get better or worse as time goes by?

They do some crazy adjustment based on the questions given per test. My son took the test in late summer 2018 and fall of 2017. On one section, he got more total answers correct the second time, but got a lower section score than the first time.

After a bit of Googling, I saw a bunch of results that said there is no "SAT curve", and that they convert the "raw score" (or percentage correct) into the "SAT score" by somehow determining the relative difficulty of the exact set of questions you were given as determined by the vast amount of data they have accumulated on how many people get those questions right or wrong compared to the average question. So no, it is not a normalized score (the word I was looking for when I gave up and used "percentile" instead).

So it's not curved its just bended.

(add if applicable) /s

Do you know that they adjust for this "inflation?"
I don't know about you, but I've never seen an SAT score communicated in percentages.

They've ALWAYS communicated it both by score and by percentile.

For SATs, you have to go with the percentages.

Percentages and percentiles are different. That's where we misunderstood each other.

On the percentile note, though, it's just not something that colleges really publish compared to scores. They don't seem to be utilized very often except for a student's understanding of their relative position amongst other test takers.

Ah, you're right. I meant percentiles.

I'm guessing that while universities don't publish the percentiles, they're well aware of them when forming their acceptance criteria.

Our acceptance rate is north of 70%, we could absolutely afford to make it more difficult.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Tech also publishes the average SAT scores and GPA of admission for each incoming class, so you know ahead of time whether you are going to make the cut. People who know they won't get in up front don't take the time to apply.

The average is just that...the average. There are people below that number that get accepted.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Clearly this is a way to start paying the players. Once the ncaa starts sniffing around our administration can say look we are paying anyone who accepts the deal. This is some 3D chess.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Proof that lessons were actually learned from UNC's no-show classes...

I agree with the suggestion to waitlist more. This is a dumb problem.

It is the wave of he future, as airlines to it, too. But somehow a lot more accurately.

I'm OK with some moderate growth but I'd rather VT be more selective than more crowded.

Airlines have tons of data showing that x% of people will be no shows or be delayed. Plus they have federal regulations for bumped passengers to deal with so they are extremely driven to not have to bump people.

You can't predict with any accuracy that this year a large percentage more people than in the previous decade will accept your offer... Trend analysis only works when the trend is followed.

Correct, but it seems as if they made lots of changes, and expected the trend to stay accurate.

It also seems to me that they've been pushing this "increased admissions" concept for a while now. So is it really all that much of a mistake?

I'd rather they use the increased awareness to make VT more selective, not just bigger and less selective.

My freshman year (2001) they had this same problem, although a little smaller in scale. They offered several of us monetary incentive to live off campus because there wasn't enough on campus housing. I think something like 1500 more freshmen enrolled than was anticipated.

Yup, this was an issue for the 2001 class. My wife and I were freshmen that year and we both were impacted by it. She decided to live off campus and I got stuck in living in Thomas that year. We were told that the school made the Corps give up Thomas so that the whole dorm could be used to help solve the over enrollment issue that year.

I've been heavily involved with admissions the past year and a half and can lend some insight into this.

This is the first year we moved to the Coalition App, which made it much more streamlined for students to apply to Virginia Tech. That's why we had over 30,000 applicants. Virginia Tech hired a group to estimate how many students we would need to accept in order to hit our goal of 6,600 incoming students that would actually choose Virginia Tech as their college. And that group did exactly that. As others have pointed out, that number is always much larger than the actual anticipated freshman class. It just turned out that a lot more people want to be at Virginia Tech than they anticipated. This is not a bad thing.

Similar to schools that win a national championship and get a "championship boost" in admissions, Virginia Tech is getting an "innovation campus" boost. That campus in Nova is going to be a huge asset for the university and will make Virginia Tech a very strong contender for students interested in those fields.

The higher-ups should've been more prepared for this type of scenario but I don't think anybody anticipated this many students wanting to become Hokies. In the short run, it's not ideal, but the administration is doing all they can to make it work, because this is really a good thing for the university. In the long run, to quote Professor Hulk, I see this as an absolute win. We're in the process of building more residence halls and renovating/expanding dining halls to help with what will continue to be large application numbers in the future.

So you're the one we need to hand some money over to in order to join the rowing team.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

...... maybe

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Secure the bag Skutt.

skag butt

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's not that simple though. Tech is on the Coalition for the first time which absolutely contributed to a bump in applications.

Tech is either in it's first or second year offering both Early Action and Early Decision. VT used to offer exclusively ED. The old way, we were able to accept, for argument's sake 4,000 of the 6,000 we were planning on taking. Which led to an incredibly competitive Regular Decision review but we were working with cushion the whole time and could leverage counselor relationships to get an idea of how many we were going to get to the 2,000 we needed. We would keep a waitlist to fill in the gaps, usually in colleges of need like Ag or Liberal Arts.

The new model creates an issue where while we are assuring spots, we are also putting out nonbinding Early Action accepts which sit for much longer and have less predictable behaviors. What likely happened was ED numbers were fine, EA numbers looked low, so we consequently dipped to ensure we made class in RD but EA had a late push and drove way into the over enrolled territory.

This is not a small over-enroll. 14% is massive in terms of an incoming class. Usually 5% will really strain the resources a university has. This is not a good thing in any capacity and will torpedo VT's freshman retention rate and all the ranking that the administration hung their hat on the last decade. The correct course of action would have been to keep a healthy waitlist the first time there were this many changed variables in a process and is a huge mismanagement.

EDIT: And by heavily involved are you referencing HA?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Yes, it was also the first year for early action. I expect the way it went down is how you described. A weird/late EA class that led to a big overshoot in terms of incoming class. With it being the first year for EA, I expect that they'll learn from that and make the necessary changes.

I never said it was a small over-enroll, and I don't think anybody thinks it is. But a very reasonable 5% melt will bring the number down to 7,500 and with these additional measures being implemented by the university, I don't think it's unreasonable to think it could come down to 7,300 or so. That's not that bad, as they're also waiving the on-campus requirement for freshman.

I genuinely don't think it'll "torpedo" our retention rate. Virginia Tech is still Virginia Tech. I understand it's not a good situation that they're in right now, but the culture and love for this school is still here.

And in regards to your edit: Yes. I was on the executive board for HA this past year and am working in admissions over the summer as well.

but the culture and love for this school is still here.

My man, There is a reason there is tremendous correlation between the first 50 days and 4 year graduation rates. Not having the entire class start on campus was the first strike, now literally doing this?

Culture and love for the school doesn't mean squat when you can't eat in a dining hall, use the gym, get access to tutors, can't find a seat in an intro class due to horrific over crowding.

And there is no way you know what the melt is because you've never seen a class of this size. You are artificially creating melt by paying people not to go to your school. I don't know what director told you this was good but it is not, not in the least bit, and the most vulnerable populations at VT are likely the ones that will suffer because of it.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Not having the entire class

Pretty sure the normal number of freshman will still be on campus. Which means an entire class. And those numbers/rates for graduation most likely will not be altered. It's just the fringe that MAY be affected.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Agreed. The higher ups at University absolutely love this because more students = more revenue = more empire building and pay raises for the Cartel leaders. Growth for the sake of growth, quality be damned.

VT has been buying hotel rooms since this came out. Imagine paying full freight to go to college to be stuck living in the Comfort Inn. VT has always been known as a big school that has the feel of a smaller school. To add on to Nerdmagic, the gyms are already crowded, the dining halls are already crowded. There will be more math empo style classes, more grad students teaching classes, more lower quality degrees, and the erosion of Hokie Spirit as corny as that sounds. Not to mention the growing dislike of the university by the towns people.

Henry, what the # of students accepted & the # of student applied? I'm not an expert but I always thought the % accepted was a huge metric in the USNWR rankings. I'm happy the administration finally moved into a "Common App" type system just so more students have the opportunity to apply to VT.

Am I the only one who remembers kids being stacked 4 high in study lounges at the beginning of the semester and then having multiple empty beds (and our study lounge back) by the time the first round of exams came around? The numbers always worked out. But then again, we never had this dramatic of a situation either.

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I had that in the Fall of 1979. I think practically every study lounge on campus had people living in them.

Back in `93 we had students living in study halls, I think I remember that Tech put some up in motels back in 94. I was glad to be in an actual room even if I was a civilian living in the military dorm.

In 2011 they stayed in the study lounges all year long. Even some of the larger Pritchard rooms turned into a three person room.

My sister was offered the chance to live off campus when she started in the fall of 2006. My parents jumped at the chance because they had purchased a rental house that I was living in at the time, so it saved them a ton of cash. They had the same opportunity when my other younger sister was starting a few years later, but she's socially awkward enough that they knew she would never make friends if they didn't force her to live on campus, so they passed on it that time. Both times there were grumbling of students being housed in the study lounges at the start of the school year.

...she's socially awkward enough that they knew she would never make friends if they didn't force her to live on campus...

Being the father of two girls who are quite different socially, I'm curious as to two things: (a) was your other younger sister aware of this, and if no, (b) how did your parents break it to her that they were forcing her to live on campus?

At some point I'm going to have to get better at manipulating my girls. Might as well get advice now.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

My family has a strict policy of "tell it like it is", so while I was not there for the conversation, but I imagine it went like this:

Parents: You're living on campus the first year.
Sister 2: But I could live at the rental house much cheaper.
Parents: You're living on campus the first year.
Sister 2: *whines*
Parents: If we allow you to live off campus, you will never be exposed to the social interaction that comes from living on campus and you will live a life of friendlessness and regret. You're living on campus.
Sister 2: *cries* FINE.

Did we grow up in the same house?

If we allow you to live off campus, you will never be exposed to the social interaction that comes from living on campus and you will live a life of friendlessness and regret.

Not a direct reply to you or your folks' rationale which I totally understand, but I lived on campus for two years by choice and managed to not make friends with anyone on my floor either year. I made all my friends through my part time jobs and fencing club. Some folks just aren't interested in socializing where they live, or just aren't good at socializing in certain settings.

I continue this tradition to this day by showing up to the annual TKP tailgate with my wife and not talking to anyone who doesn't speak to me first because of my crippling standoffishness. See if you can guess who we are.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'll keep a look out for you this fall!

If you didn't carry around that foil all the time, people might approach you.

You've got the wrong fencer, I'm an epeeist.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I read that as "epeenist."

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I remember people living in the study lounges in 2000, and by 2nd semester we had the study lounges back, but there weren't that many open beds in my dorm.

It's all about the money. The offer only goes to in-state students only, so they can keep the higher paying out of state students coming in. This is the part I don't agree with, we are State school, we should give in state kids the advantage. But I guess I am just old fashioned about this.

On the flip side, I'm guessing the ones offered the deal were the last ones accepted into the school. Those tend to be in-state (in a higher percentage.)

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Does the state not subsidize costs for in-state students? Meaning that the state would pay the difference to the school? In any case, I think it would make a lot more sense to do this for in-state students first, since it is much easier to transfer credits from a Virginia community college than an out-of-state community college. Any in-state CC counselor worth their salt should be able to figure out the best courseload for a kid that's transferring to VT in 1-2 semesters.

Anyone else want to pool some $$ and build a new apartment complex in BBurg? I am sure Fernley would cut us a discount on design.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

No, but I'm in for a toll road...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Today, I saw the sign for the I-66 HOV eastbound (and down).
$45.50 to go from the Beltway to DC.

Tweedy can run like a dadgum antelope or whatever. I like to use scalded dog. Do antelopes lumber? Cheetah, OK. He runs like a cheetah. He's fast. - Bud Foster

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I also seem to notice in other threads we have people in the construction field as well.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

So we have design, construction and inspections covered. Who we have for interior design and management?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

since we'll clearly, definitely, most assuredly need a polymer synthetic chemist, i'm your guy

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

For the price I'll be the "inferior desecrator" and manage the thing....

I am debating selling my rental condo. Just looked and there are less than 10 condo's available in all of Blacksburg for sale.

Is it a coincidence that more people want to be Hokies now that Guitarman is on staff? I think not.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Pssst, he doesn't have a Super Up-Vote button. No need to kiss up.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I may not have super upvotes, but I have super "buy you a beer in person" abilities...consider that a +1, vtcivengr.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Apparently I'm too good at my job.

In an effort to ease that, Tech is offering a group of 1,559 incoming, in-state freshmen in specific programs financial incentives to skip the 2019-20 school year in Blacksburg โ€” or at least a semester. The university has budgeted $3.3 million for the program.

Incoming students will be able to apply for the following three options:

GAP2020 โ€” the Guaranteed Admissions Program will offer students a $1,000 scholarship renewable for four years to take a gap year. They will be guaranteed a spot as first year students in fall 2020.
GRANT2020 โ€” the Guaranteed Admission Transfer Program will offer students tuition reimbursement if they take a year of classes at a Virginia community college and then transfer those credits to Tech to start in fall 2020. Tech will give students a tuition credit during their first year worth what the students paid to attend community college.
Experience 2020 โ€” students can take classes during the summer of 2019 beginning July 9 tuition-free. The student can then enroll full time in either the fall or spring semester and take the other semester off. They would then enroll again in the summer of 2020 to complete a year's worth of classes.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/so...

Honestly, option 3 sounds like a pretty good deal.

It sure does. My son started on July 5th his freshman year and loved spending the summer in and around Blacksburg (fishing/tubing the New, hiking McAfee Knob) and exploring the campus without bumping into the normal volume of students around. So do the summer, do the fall semester and experience Lane Stadium, and then finish it off with another summer... not a bad option.

โ€œI'm addicted to placebos. I could quit, but it wouldn't matterโ€~steven wright

Can he just study abroad spring semester?

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. With the growth of the school being what it is, does this mean we try to expand lane stadium sometime in the future to hold more capacity?

What's
Important
Now

No, we don't fill it as is.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I upvoted because you are right, but it made me sad and I wish you were wrong

Danny is always open
23 can't read

Me too friend. Me too.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Do the new Corps dorms have rooms that can fit bunks 3-high like the old ones did?

Click here to destroy wall.

EDIT: Damnit... wrong thread.

Regardless, everyone could use some fishing reports in their life.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Cool

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Thank you.

I copied this image from the BOV report that was just released. Interesting that over half the in-state offered students accepted.

So, what I'm seeing here is that, last year, they sent out more offers than the year before, but had fewer accepted. Also, from earlier in the thread, it sounds like VT joined some group of schools that offers a "standard application" that can be sent to many schools at once, meaning that they expected the average applicant's number of offers to increase. Combining these two reasons, they decided to send out a ton more offers this year to compensate, and were greeted with the highest acceptance rate in at least four years. Not sure I can really blame VT admissions here, seems like they were just trying to prevent a second straight year of reduced enrollment.

Percentages by year:

Year % Accepted
2016 33.5%
2017 36.2%
2018 32.2%
2019 36.4%

Anyway you can pool the numbers for pre and post 2007. I'd be interested to see how that affected acceptance rates.

What's
Important
Now

Am I reading it wrong or does the offers number at the top for 2019 not equal the sum of the instate out of state and international offers below.

nvrmd

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Yeah, 9,588 + 14,300 + 1,985 = 22,021 don't compute without some funny new math.

Some of those offers weren't commitable.

(add if applicable) /s

So just a larger pool of people who will be giving the fundraising departments headaches by not giving back after graduation because of their immense student debts

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

VT just bought out the UCB Holiday Inn for the Academic year to put Freshman in it.

You're getting bad information from somewhere. That Holiday Inn has been gone for years.

also from reddit:

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

President is barely involved with admissions. By the time he is looped in on anything, it's already too late. Blame whoever is over Enrollment Management and the Director of Admissions.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

The maroon and orange buck stops at his desk, there's no excusing this. Trying to become one of the 40,000+ student Big Ten research behemoths, which is his big thing, at any cost is clearly not working if they're having to buy out local hotels while the development on campus catches up....

While I am not without my concerns about growth, I need to push back on this slightly. The target enrollment is 30,000 within the next 5 years or so. It's faster than the Town of Blacksburg wants (but frankly if they had their way, Tech would never grow at all because they don't want to deal with infrastructure problems that are already affecting things), but it's not the hyperbole that has been propagated on message boards.

2018 enrollment is 34,950 (84% undergrad is 29,358). Given the 1,100 additional students coming in 2 months, that 5 year target has already been exceeded.

Don't want to deal with infrastructure problems that are already affecting things

You're spinning this like the solutions are available and the town is just refusing to do them out of stubbornness. Populations are not cattle who will allow themselves to be milked until they fall over. Blacksburg residents are already double taxed by the town and the county. Real estate prices in Blacksburg are through the roof. They just raised property taxes again this past year. People have been moving to Christiansburg, Elliston, Shawsville, Pearisburg, and down to the valley to escape the congestion and live somewhere more affordable. Somebody has to pay for all the new infrastructure that VT needs to grow for the sake of growing.

This incoming class is not just going to be a problem for one year. The watermelon has to pass through the entire snake. This class size will be the standard going forward not an outlier. There will be a number of new apartment complexes built over the next 2 years to meet the demand of all these students. If they go back to a smaller class size you will witness first hand the bust created by an artificial boom.

The 30,000 goal has always been for undergraduate. So it has not already been exceeded, just got there a lot faster than expected.

The Town has a history of voting in new Town representatives to stop infrastructure projects. I worked on the Tom's Creek sewer project that was designed, funded, bid, and then the Town decided to stop the project because it would improve the systems involved. The Council had been using those overburdened systems as an excuse to limit growth. But when it could have actually been fixed (bid was actually under budget as well) they pulled the plug.

They also have a history of wanting somebody else to pay for the fact that maintenance upgrades were not performed. They want new development to pay for infrastructure projects so they can use the tax payers money on beautification projects rather than infrastructure.

They also ignored VDOT's traffic studies and implemented plans to deliberately make traffic worse on Main Street to try and slow traffic down and get people to go around the town. See Wendy's traffic circle and traffic calming implemented on South Main by the mall.

You mean you dont think putting frog ponds all over town is a good use of taxpayer money /sss
Listen I know how bad the town is managed and how unfriendly it is towards business. We can agree on that.

Why should the town subsidize the growth of VT?

Will the town, shops, businesses, tax base, etc benefit from growth; both of VT and the town? There needs to be a partnership. And if VT is dropping 100% of the money to improve campus infrastructure, there shouldn't be an expectation that they also burden 100% of the town infrastructure upgrades.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I have a hard time feeling sorry for the town when VT is a perpetual economy boosting giant.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Yeah, but I think that means you fire the people who did their job poorly and hire someone who will do it properly.

I still am firmly in the camp that this was done by design. They even had a consulting agency known for growing enrollment come in as the fall man. The problem is they wayyyy overshot so no one is blaming the fall man.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Sorry, no idea. Way above my pay grade. Wouldn't surprise me, but what a crappy way to start college. Yeah the hotel is nicer than a dorm but you won't have the same experience and it will definitely be inconvenient getting to campus, especially for brand new students who don't know the area, aren't familiar with the BT yet, and will likely need to fend for themselves more often for meals.

Impressive. /s

They are also forcing the Inn to give them the first three floors and converting those to dorm rooms. All those rooms are already booked for football season so there will be about 90 season ticket holders getting a call letting them know that they no longer have a hotel for football season. Throw in multiple weddings already on the books and planned for the next year. This will undoubtedly be accompanied by layoffs for staff at the Inn.

I've never liked Sands and I hope he is fired over this. I won't be donating to VT so long as he is President.

By forcing I am assuming they are paying IHG a pretty penny to cancel existing room reservations (football, basketball, graduation, high school visits, parents weekends, etc.) and IHG is not complaining now that they can lay off staff, and guarantee rooms are filled all while knowing VT has their back against the wall.

Sucks for the students though. I wonder if they will still be able to have an on campus meal plan.

Yup. It's not like it was a hostile takeover and they commandeered the Holiday Inn. IHG had to agree to the terms, and I'm sure this wasn't the first time an unusual circumstance has arisen for them across all of their properties. IHG isn't getting hurt over this, at least financially. And I'm sure they took care of their employees.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm talking about the Inn at VT not the holiday inn. And yes they did force them. The management at the Inn tried to push back but VT said we aren't asking we own you and we're telling you. In a year in which enthusiasm has waned for our football program, jerking hotel rooms out from under donors is not going to go over well.

Oh I misunderstood. I did not see anything saying that the Inn at VT is also being commandeered. I thought it was only the Holiday Inn.

How many floors is the Inn. Wouldn't three floors practically be the entire hotel?

No worries. Almost. The 4th floor is being retained for hotel guests.

Nail on the head. VT owns the Inn. They can do with it what they want. Sucks for those losing rooms sure.

Whether you like the idea of growing to such a large Big Ten style university or not is one thing. But as of now the decision has been made.

I wonder truly if this over admittance was really a mistake. If I was the university and I wanted to grow I would want as much money to do that as necessary from the State. I want their support to essentially promote VT as THE VA University. Because that's what this is about. How do I prove my point to legislators? A campus in NOVA with Amazon, check. A campus growth plan that shows significant growth, check. A facilities expenditure with funds allocated that covers the shortfall, check. AND then I throw in an overwhelming need. Why look mr legislators, as we said the demand is real. We are literally spending public money to rent hotels. We need more money now to enact our glorious vision that we just happened to have done. Oh and this town needs some help with infrastructure, whether they like it or not.

Just saying. I've negotiated at the table for loads of things like this. There's usually a plan and rarely any mistakes like this.

Exactly. There is no better way to come to the state saying we need money than to actually need the money.

I totally get the plan and my mind went to the same place as fernley, skeptical that this was a mistake. My problem with this is that VT has an endowment of over a billion dollars that is meant for these purposes. University Endowments are now primarily a status symbol, not a reserve of money to fund capital expenditures. UVA caught some flack a few years ago for their secret 2 billion dollar slush fund that was a part of their Endowment meanwhile they have raised tuition 30 straight years.
Instead of using the money that is earmarked for these projects, they hold the state aka tax payer hostage.

Endowments aren't an open resource of money though. most donations are restricted money earmarked by the donor for a specific reason, and most money in an endowment is restricted. I doubt there is an overwhelming amount in VT's endowment for new student housing despite being over a Billion dollars. Additionally donated money is often held for a specified term to earn money for a specified reason, as an investment to raise money for stuff like scholarships for MBAs for example. that money is inaccessible until after that amount has been earned through investment of that restricted money, and even then the original donation is likely similarly restricted for a separate use after it's investment term has matured.

UVa has an endowment of $ 7 billion dollars. Harvard has an endowment of $38 billion.

Which makes you wonder:

1) why is tuition so high, and
2) why are taxpayers subsidizing the tuition and expenses at these universities?

I'm not saying that VT should have to dig into their endowment to subsidize an increase in growth, because I don't believe that at all, but at some point the taxpayer subsidy of the richest universities stops making sense.

You're missing a lot of the story with Harvard

Harvard is a private school therefore they do not get any direct funding from the government.

Yes, Harvard has a $38 billion endowment. Yes, Harvard's tuition is ~$50k/year. What you're missing is because Harvard has that big of an endowment, they have the best financial aid program in the country (Link Here):

Few realize that Harvard's financial aid programs pay 100 percent of tuition, fees, room, and board for students from families earning less than $65,000 a year. Families with incomes from $65,000 to $150,000 pay between zero and 10 percent of their income. This means that, for 90 percent of families earning less than $150,000, a Harvard education is competitive with or less expensive than a public university in a student's home state. Harvard stresses that most of the students qualifying for financial aid (about 60 percent of undergraduates) also receive travel allowances to keep them connected with home. Harvard also points out that a quarter of its current students come from families with less than $80,000 in annual income.

If your parents are partners at Goldman Sachs, they have to pay full cost. If you parents are high school teachers, it's likely they don't have to play anything.

Has anyone heard for certain if the hotel laid off staff? Figure that's a good way to further harm relations with the town like people have been saying in this thread. VT admits too many students and livelihoods are affected. Not good at all.

I'd imagine that they keep the place staffed as is to clean etc the rooms being used by students. It's really the only sure fire way to be sure the rooms don't end up destroyed by teenagers seeing as they aren't as durable as your typical dorm rooms. Would also ensure they somewhat stay in the good graces of hotel management as well. Tech doesn't own the Holiday Inn so they must be paying for the rooms anyways.

Do the freshman forced to live in the hotel get their rooms cleaned and free breakfast?

Had a buddy that got this deal at Shenandoah University in 1997. He did get his room cleaned and free breakfast. And no RA.

"It's always great to beat UVA, that makes us all smarter and better looking for a couple days".

Honestly it sounds pretty great. No communal bathrooms, cleaning service and a free meal everyday.

My wife and I were wondering the same thing. It seems like you wouldn't want college kids living in your hotel room for a full semester without keeping things cleaned up a bit. Hotel rooms aren't as "durable" as dorm rooms.

That is going to cause some people to be very upset come football season.

Can't believe they are doing this. Terrible. Calling it a "learning environment"; please, call it what it is...dorms.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

FWIW, "living learning communities" have been abundant at VT for 20 years or more. It's not a new concept. But this whole thing is a train wreck.

It boggles the mind that they bungled this as badly as they did. I'm more surprised they overtook the Inn, as I've been under the impression they've used that as a place to wine and dine the wealthier donors during football weekends, do to basically turn it into a dorm will be... Interesting to say the least

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'm really surprised more students didn't take the free year of community college. Go to New River and live in Blacksburg.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

Really? No way I would take that option.

Wait is this /s?

No not sarcastic. Many people already go the route of CC to VT anyway, and in this case it is paid for. See below for further explanation.

P.S. I myself would not have done it because of transferable Engineering curriculum but some majors are more flexible.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

This sounds like you're serious, so I'll respond by saying that moving out from your parents' house just to move across the state to go to NRCC, even if tuition is free, makes no financial sense. If you're willing to take the deal, you're going to attend a community college close to home.

I didn't explain myself very well. I'm surprised there werent more takers and yes the close to home option would make the most sense. However, a lot of kids see getting out of the house as a reason to not go CC route. My later point is that if so, you could live like a hokie and attend a top notch CC in New River for the cost of an apartment.

"with all due respect, and remember Iโ€™m sayinโ€™ it with all due respect, that idea ainโ€™t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettinโ€™ it on" - Ricky Bobby

So any of these kids able to play DL?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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