Keshon Artis to redshirt

Looks like Keshon Artis has decided to redshirt after his 4 game this year. In my mind this is a great move for him and the team as I think he has a bright future at the Mike position and give him some space between Ashby and Dax.

Hopefully we see more of Tisdale this week and getting Dax some more reps to spell Ashby at the Mike position.

https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Article/Virginia-Tech-Hokies-linebacker-Keshon-Artis-to-redshirt--136489536/

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

i like this and am happy he decided to redshirt as a hokie instead of going the portal the route

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I agree, however, he still has that option should he choose to pursue it.

Too slow.

Unfortunately, taking a Redshirt and entering the Transfer Portal are not mutually exclusive.

Hopefully, this means he is staying at VT, but he could also simply be trying to preserve eligibility.

wouldn't he still have to sit out the year post-transfer? it doesn't make sense to redshirt and transfer, and then sit out a year anyway, does it?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Depends on where he goes he can get that magic NCAA waiver.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

NCAA: Oh you are leaving VT? Here, have a 5th year of eligibility.

Go Hokies!

Without divulging my source, I know someone close to the Artis family. VERY CLOSE. They keep me posted each week on things going on within the team as shared with the family by Keshon. His parents had a meeting with CJF and BF during the off week about his lack of playing time. As I was told, when BF came into the room with the family and CJF and was told the family would like to have a meeting, his response was "if this is about playing time I'm not meeting". The father shut down and basically told CFJ to redshirt my son so we can look elsewhere. I was "surprised" to see him playing in the Duke game but it looked like BF pulled several starters so then it didn't seem like he was getting playing time because of the "meeting". Hint, hint, Keshon's girlfriend is at ODU.

As I was told, when BF came into the room with the family and CJF and was told the family would like to have a meeting, his response was "if this is about playing time I'm not meeting".

If that is true, then Fuente is a shitty coach and even worse human being. Difficult to sell hard, smart, tough if you cannot have those types of conversations with coaches, players and families. Incredibly hypocritical otherwise.

Edit: I may (even still not quite sure) have misread it as Fuente saying this instead of BF? If so, that's on Bud. I get the sentiment that parents shouldn't be in the meeting yadda 18 year olds being adults yadda, but to deny a meeting while they're already in the head coach's office (or DC's office if I read it right the first time).. that's petty and downright disrespectful.

If it was the parents speaking for the player and not a united front just wanting a discussion then obviously that's a different story.

uh

"when BF came into the room [...] his response was"

either the comment is terribly worded, or you read it wrong and are crapping on CJF when you should be crapping on Bud

edit: i canceled out your downvote and giving you the benefit of the doubt on because of the ambiguously worded comment. remember that the next time you wanna call me an ass?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

GGC, some people just want to shit on Fuente regardless of the situation.

It is really interesting how everyone has rushed to Foster's defense and dismissing this as high school level nonsense when I 800% guarantee Fuente would still be getting crucified if it was reported that he said it.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

20+ years of being the GOAT gives you the benefit of the doubt.

If we're 4-0 right now, people would be rushing to Fuente's defense. Fair weather emotional fans are gonna be emotional.

You get botd for being the goat but one never gets a pass for being a dickhead (if indeed the alleged incident occurred)

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

It's ironic to be expected to accept emotional, pre-mature judgments by fans when many of the same fans tell you that accepting anything less than regular ACC titles and playoff births is accepting mediocrity.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I agree with this statement.

It's high school level nonsense no matter who said it.

I mean I am typically a Fuente optimist. Shrug. Even if I read it wrong and Fuente was calling Bud into his office, he was ambushed in that scenario and speaks to the disconnect between him and staff. It's a bad look regardless.

Also gotta keep in mind this is from the parent's perspective. i could easily see Bud walking into that meeting and starting it with the disclaimer "if this is about playing time, i don't discuss that with parents and don't feel that i'm obligated to justify how i've decided on playing time to them" and that got turn into "he refused to talk to us".

Gobble Till You Wobble

That's true and would obviously make a huge difference. My take was based on how I read it. And apparently that may have been too much in haste.

I've got to believe that Bud decides who plays on defense.

Right. And the parents coming in to meet with the coach will change absolutely ZERO in regards to on-field performance and where he stands in the pecking order. Bud isn't out there to "play favorites" and give time to whomever's parents come in and put face time in. i don't blame Bud (Or Fuente) for saying that, no matter which one did.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm not necessarily defending Fuente (and Bud). I'm just as unhappy with our current performance and concerned about our future as anyone else. Artis is likely not getting a lot of playing time because he hasn't earned it and/or he's just not good enough. And maybe Bud and Fuente don't see a bright future for him here. So maybe.... they would prefer to see him move on and open up another scholarship position for someone else. That might explain the cold response to the family.

To me, it's a bad sign when parents want to meet with the coaching staff to complain about playing time for their kid. A lot of these football parents think their kid is perfect, and they won't listen when someone who has knowledge of the situation tells them otherwise. No one needs those hassles. Fuente and Bud have plenty of other more major problems to work out.

obviously not the OP, but this is how I read it:

when BF came into the room with the family and CJF and was told the family would like to have a meeting, his response was ...

him being BF.

glug glug chumps

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

"52 seconds to late" anagrams to "drink!"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

CORRECT!!!!

There's zero reason for Foster let alone Fuente to have to sit down and have a discussion with parents about playing time midseason. This isn't high school. If we would have found out someone had brought their mom and dad in to complain about playing time to Beams and Foster, that kids relationship with the rest of the team would have changed dramatically.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Shit, even in high school, I would have never dreamt of getting my parents to talk to my coach about play time. When I played HS basketball, I started the season riding the bench, getting a couple minutes at the end of blowouts. Know what I did? Worked my ass off, improved throughout the season and started logging legit minutes.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This scenario is the close relative of "College kid takes their mom to a job interview".

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'm sure Foster or Fuente wasn't so dismissive either when presenting that news to them either. But since it isn't what the family wanted to hear it is going to be how they interpreted it anyways. Tons of players probably aren't happy with their play time on every team across the country. Coaches can't be bothered to talk to each of their parents about it. Especially not mid season.

This is what you get from years of participation trophies and telling every kid they're great, they become entitled. You can't have a winner without a loser. Want to be a winner? Work your ass off , study the game and try harder. Nothing will be handed to you. Get off my lawn! Rant over.

Some how I doubt many athletes on power 5 teams were given participation trophies. The vast majority were standouts on their youth/high school teams and I'm sure the majority also worked pretty hard as well. Talent without working isn't likely to lead to a big time scholarship. The difficult part is realizing you are no longer a big fish in a small pond.

Also, participation trophies always seemed like more for the parents than the kids to me.

stick it in, stick it in, stick it in!

Difficult to discern with the way it was worded whether it was Bud or CJF that had that reaction.

Either way, I honestly don't know how much I care. That is some HS-level nonsense to have parents wanting to have meetings about PT anyway.

So Bud doesn't decide playing time?

This scenario makes no sense to me, but I know parents don't decide playing time.

If that is true, then Fuente is a shitty coach and even worse human being. Difficult to sell hard, smart, tough if you cannot have those types of conversations with coaches, players and families. Incredibly hypocritical otherwise.

This is an awful take.

I could be wrong but I definitely interpreted the person who gave the response as Bud Foster. Does the whole shitty coach and even worse human being thing apply?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Reminds me of when Donaldven Manning decided to transfer when Kendall Fuller and Brandon Faceyon passed him on the depth chart.

If that's what happened I don't blame Foster one bit.

Coaches shouldn't have to negotiate with players' parents about playing time.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Parents: "Now look here coach, you need to play my kid, who isn't as good as the guy playing in front of him, or else we're packing our shit"

Coach: "Bye."

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Real world spin: Imagine bringing your parents into your office to meet with your boss and have them ask about your pay and say you should be getting paid more.

It's so cliche but hard work pays off.

Also, knowing how much your peers are getting paid, both at your current job and in similar positions at nearby companies, also pays off. But only if you have a history of results at your current job.

I'm gonna gift the benefit of the doubt to the coaches here. Bud and Coach Fu have had these meetings 800 times. This was probably the 2nd or 3rd time the Artis parents/family had a "playing time" meeting. I'd imagine they were a little nervous meeting with the a head coach....and Bud.
The Hokie coaches know how to handle this with tact. "if this is about playing time I'm not meeting" are probably the words they heard....but I'd imagine those aren't the same words that were spoken by the coaches. ....with all due respect to Keshon's folks.

JP

This maybe a signal of something bigger. My guess is we see Tisdale taking Dax's spot in the starting lineup tomorrow. Dax is now Ashby's primary backup. Foster told Artis he's now third string and Artis is now choosing to redshirt. Maybe Artis is looking to go somewhere else and in that case, it is what it is.

I could easily envision burning Artis' redshirt if Ashby or Dax gets hurt.

I really would like to see Dax at Ashby's spot playing beside Tisdale

Gobble Till You Wobble

Why? There's a fair argument that Ashby is the best player on our team right now.

From what i hear that is Dax's more natural position and if he's more comfortable there, i think we'd see him playing more to his potential. I know Ashby's numbers look good, but there are times i think he's limited athletically covering side to side and in pursuit. I'm not guaranteeing Dax would be better, but if thats a more natural fit, it be interesting to see if those flashes we get from him become more consistent. I'm also just very high on Tisdale. At this point, why not mix things up a little bit?

Gobble Till You Wobble

Dax hasn't really looked great this year. He has had plenty of play time to prove his potential as you put it. Ashby has been great. Many of the best linebackers in VT history haven't been your prototypical athletic stud.

I'm not knocking him for not looking the part. Jack Tyler wasn't a prototypical stud but the dude had a twitch and could get side to side. And I'm not saying Ashby isn't good, I'm just saying some of his results are a product of that position in Buds defense and I'd be interested to see Dax in that spot with a guy like Tisdale beside him. I think part of Dax's struggles are a result of him playing out of position.

Gobble Till You Wobble

What makes you think that his results are from the system?

From practicing against buds defense. That defense is designed to keep the Mikes clean and rack up tackles.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I second this. Got really irritated at the Duke game because of, well, the overall poor performance and mistakes, but also, Dax.

Dude is a firestarter and gets the fans and teammates pumped. But the way he is playing, he is just my favorite cheerleader. Then it burns me up that he rah rahs so much and still can't make plays. Hope he can improve.

Use case countermanding you:

Bruce Taylor- special at mike
Bruce Taylor- struggled at backer

Same with Dax. Very similar profiles, body types, and weaknesses.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Ashby racks up the tackles because that's what Mike's do. That doesn't mean he's the best player on the field for us. That probably goes to Conner, Farley, Garbutt or Crawford.

Ultimately Ashby has some physical limits - he is too small to cover TE's and a bit too slow to cover RB's out of the backfield. His strength is that he consistently pursues plays, takes pretty good angles in pursuit, and at the least gets a hand on a runner and slows them up to allow the rest of the D to get involved. Aside from his physical limitations he sometimes gets caught taking bad steps / wrong gaps (most of the time he fills his run fits very well) and then has to pursue the play or take a side angle on a tackle instead of meeting the runner head on. His good pursuit insticts certainly help with that, but against good competition his phyiscal limits really become an issue when it comes to finishing a tackle at an non-optimal angle.

All that being said, he may still be a better option that Dax, who for whatever reason is not bringing the lumber this year like he did last season. I'm also not sure Dax would be an upgrade in pass coverage or run fits compared to Ashby, at least at this point in their careers. Getting Tisdale on the field would at least give us one LB who could run with RB's along with the size to match up with TE's in the passing game.

While I agree that Dax has more upside than Ashby at mike, Dax also has a major issue with guessing and stepping into the wrong gap. It happens way too often and is a bigger issue than his speed at backer.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

You'd like to see our best defensive player replaced?

I think a linebacker core is about finding the ride combination of backers. I'm just saying i'd like to see Tisdale and Dax because i think the ceiling is the highest with them side by side. I'm not saying Dax would be a lock to outperform Ashby, but after the way Duke settled in and ran on us, why not mix it up?

Gobble Till You Wobble

So replace the guy who's won ACC LB of the week 3 times in less than the last season and a half?

Apologies for saying i'd like to see a change up on defense after we got the ball shoved down our throats by Duke at home. All i said is i'd like to see Dax get some time at Mike to see if it's a better fit for him and if his ceiling is higher there especially with Tisdale beside him.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Except it's not all you said.

If you'd like to see Dax get SOME time at Mike, it might be better to actually say that than say "I really would like to see Dax at Ashby's spot playing beside Tisdale".

Well it's well known Bud like's rotating his linebackers when he has enough depth, so i didn't think i needed to say "rotate in some at Ashby's spot playing beside Tisdale". All i'm saying is i'd like to see Dax get some playing time at Mike so we evaluate if he's more capable of reaching his full potential there since it's his more natural position.

Gobble Till You Wobble

So which is it? A "Change-up after getting the ball shoved down our throat" or "I'd like to see Dax get some time at Mike"? Red meat or the high road?

You're trying to have it both ways after getting called out.

Rotating Dax in at Mike after getting the ball shoved down our throat would be a change up? He hasn't been playing there so rotating him at Mike with Ashby and letting Tisdale take over at Backer would be something new. I don't take a lot of stock in media given player of the week awards. I'm judging our defense based off of performance and we have struggled against the run. While Ashby has played well, I personally think Dax's ceiling would be higher and want to see him get time in his natural position. I really don't see what your point is or how i got called out?

Hey down below you said every player that can redshirt should redshirt before the Miami game... that would have included Ashby soooo you would have redshirted the 3x acc linebacker of the week and the best player on our defense?

Gobble Till You Wobble

No offense but you don't seem to appreciate that words have meaning.

"Replace" and "rotate" have distinctly different meanings. I took you at your initial word (as did at least one other person). If you meant "rotate"...okay. But don't try to deflect the confusion with stuff like Bud likes to rotate LBs when he has depth (he is notorious for not rotating LBs).

Technically VT could have redshirted every player on the roster who hadn't redshirted yet. Of course that interpretation would be absurd. As would the interpretation that a junior who is arguably the best player on the roster should be redshirted.

But I'll rephrase nonetheless. VT should redshirt every player it can reasonably and realistically redshirt. Like say...Nick Gallo.

A. Where did i use the word "replace"? Don't believe i did. Kind of ironic to give me a lecture about wording and literally misquote me in the process.

B. Bud has come out and said if he has the depth, he likes to rotate linebackers.

C. If that's what you meant about redshirting you should be more careful with your wording. Words have meaning ya know.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Not to extend this tit-for-tat, but I'm pretty sure StineyDraw48 literally played for Tech, so let's give the dude the benefit of the doubt on these things or maybe not be quite so argumentative. I find his contributions among the most insightful here.

I have no clue why, but for some reason I always picture him as Joey Phillips lol

Close, but no mullet.

Also, our guy StineyDraw is a second generation Hokie football player. He knows a thing or two about how the Virginia Tech football sausage is made.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

You guys are really coming through for me today! Dong jokes, sausage gifs....you guys get me.

Please stop. You're being a boo boo head.

I think Dax is more of a Mike rather Backer. We should have Dax Backing up Artis and let Rivers/Tisdale work at backer spot.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Ashby?

Sorry Meant to say Ashby

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

This program needs to redshirt every player it can right now.

If the player doesn't like it, he's clearly either a ME guy or foolish (for variety of reasons).

This is in line with why we should have played Hooker or Patterson from the get go. Get the younger guys that are playing next year either 1) experience if they do not have a redshirt available or 2) a redshirt if they have a redshirt available

Ryan Gosling was pretty good when coach pulled him and put Petey in.

We put the K in Kwality

I don't know about the PT transfer discussion - seems unlikely to me with Keshon being a true sophomore. This is more of a good roster management decision based on the current LB situation (a good problem to have)

1) Keshon was a good recruit who has shown some potential. Let's space him out at Mike and see if that gives him a better opportunity to play.
2) coaches and PT discussions with a family. Hard NO - this is not a negotiation. If you are a kid without parents involved how do you feel about your teammates doing this? This creates havoc.

3) Having a discussion about a kid's future and stating here is the decision tree is different. Example - don't redshirt and play special teams, be a junior and save your potential redshirt for the future or take it now and work hard to have a chance to compete next year and work your way up the depth chart.

I don't mind coaches (I interpreted this as Bud saying No he isn't negotiating playing time with parents - am I wrong?) saying no to this consistently.

I think with the portal supposedly making movement easier for players that coaches are going to need to be more open to having these meetings. It could be the difference between keeping a player and losing them. Not the most ideal situation for coaches, but it looks like the recruiting is going to have to continue after the kids step on campus. And I don't begrudge the kids if they handle it the right way. I'd much rather be having that discussion then just losing kids because they don't see a path or it hasn't been clearly laid out for them. It's just like in the real world. You start to look elsewhere if you can't clearly see your path for growth. Most of these kids have NFL aspirations, regardless of how far fetched they may be, and they sometimes don't have the patience to wait for fear of missing out on that dream.

So do we have any more intel on this situation?

February..'96...the steak: ribeye, the whiskey:Lagavulin 16, the lady next to me: a bit**.....

Yes. We won Saturday.

We put the K in Kwality

At about 25:20 in the press conference earlier today, Fuente was asked about Artis and whether other players may be handled similarly. During his response, he said "I don't quite honestly know if we'll be able to do that with Keshon, there's a lot of football left to be played". Nothing concrete, but certainly leaving the door open for him to step on the field later in case of injuries or whatnot.

Based on this 247 article, it looks like Bud is keen on rotating Ashby, Dax and Tisdale at LB (Link Here).

Also based on both Fuente and Foster's comments, Dax is almost strictly being used in rushing downs and Tisdale is being used more in coverage. Hence why Tisdale was in on the final play to knock down the pass.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Dax played the first two series and the first series of the second half. Tisdale played the rest of the game. When Dax came back in, he replaced Ashby at mike. I have read that he played two other plays at mike, but I didn't notice them.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

If twitter is any indication, Keshon and his family love VT and are huge Hokie's through and through. I hope this helps him in the long run.

I wish it was possible to redshirt Dax, or even talk to him about DE if the opportunity just isn't there at Mike and Tisdale is the obvious start at Backer. I know Bud would never go that route, and it's a moot point anyway with Dax playing his 5th game, but I really think he'd benefit from that year. The depth chart isn't set to look that different next year if Ashby and Tisdale hold up.

Dax isn't going to get faster by redshirting.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

But slowing down the game for him probably would.

But as mentioned above, it's a moot point. He isn't redshirting...this year.

Please don't tell me he is another Jake Johnson... Please

I'm not gonna take any Jake Johnson slander. Guy tore it up after transferring (1st all sun belt) and would have been drafted if he hadn't blown out his achilles working out at the senior bowl.

Gobble Till You Wobble

He also had fantastic hair.

I think he will have a fine career. I just dont think his weaknesses will improve with a redshirt year. Biggest thing I see is he doesn't have superior sideline to sideline speed and he isnt better than Ashby at Mike but his motor is infectious and he needs to be involved.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

He has issues other than speed though. And arguably bigger.

What issues are you referring to? I see him guessing instead of reading and struggling to get off blocks at times. I do think that is probably more normal sophomore issues that he will improve on though. It will be interesting to see how he develops. I'm a fan and hope he exceeds expectations and proves me dead wrong. I know Bud has high hopes.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Bingo. This is why I said above that a redshirt year would help slow down the game for him (in response to a post saying a redshirt wouldn't help his speed).

Besides finding new ways to be blocked at times, there have been times this year when it looked like he didn't even understand the defensive play being called. Now it could be he's trying to do too much. Or it could be he's guessing because of this (or to make up for his legs). Or both. Or it could be he's trying to cover for someone else's mistakes at times (probably true too - watch the DE's in the early games).

This stuff can mostly be fixed (although instincts can't really be taught) - and often is with time. Andrew Matu was a prime example.

I think we are on the same page. I would put more stock in repetition than pure red shirt time though. I guess most players would benefit from a redshirt year in some degree.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

It looks like Bud has realized that he needs to rotate the three. Dax is well suited for the Mike position and playing in the box and rushing the QB. He is not built to play out in space like the Backer position demands. Tisdale should get all the reps at backer. If he needs a breather, then bring in Dax or Rivers for a few snaps. Meanwhile, Dax should rotate in at Mike to give Ashby a breather. Ashby has been playing great, but looks like he can get tired towards the end of the game and is slower in pursuit if the play gets out on the edge.

I think you give Dax the opportunity to grow and get better at the Mike position. IF the next DC plays a different system, Dax will likely be an inside linebacker anyway. Let him play a backup role at the position that he is built to play.

"Hope his dad doesn't work at ESPN"

-Mike Leash (probably)

Leash?

We put the K in Kwality

*Checks username*