Whit Babcock on short list for Southern Cal AD

With Lynn Swann stepping down today, USC has an opening, and a familiar face is on their current short list.

This could significantly muddy the water surrounding the future of the football program if it were to happen.

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Comments

Whit pls no

Click here to destroy wall.

Counterpoint:

I loved that movie. Still waiting for Part II... :P

Go Hokies!

There are actually people on twitter saying they would be glad to see him go because he didn't hire a super star basketball coach combined with Fuente. Really.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Well that's because the people of twitter are so insightful and actually know whats best for this program. /s

โ€œTHE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!โ€

Twitter is a cesspool.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

Pure evil, but what's new?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

People have ridiculous standards. I mean for a while I would only date Halle Berry or Tyra Banks because anything less would be a failure. But then I turned 16 and realize I didn't want to live in LA so those were two unreal expectations.

But did you ask them to move? Might have missed your shot mate.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

This is an undervalued comeback. Good one, Nerd.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Appreciate it Fish. Haven't seen you in a bit but good to see you around!

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Thanks for the howdy do, Nerd. I've been around my usual haunts, but when the season starts and folks get rabid, I do tend to back off quite a bit. I'm not built for the rough and tumble, and prefer the tenor of the fishing crowd where I can truly contribute with experience and a certain amount of expertise.
I always like reading your posts, though, and appreciate your insights and wit as well as your reasonable demeanor.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Have the seen Mike Young's recruiting class?

It's Time to go to Work

The two tweets I called out for deleted.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Will people suddenly realize how fortunate we are to have him?

NO..NOOOOOOOOOO

Don't do it Whit. Think of the traffic.

Not a great place to raise a family either. You want clean air and open space for kids.

Talk to Bill Roth.

And while you're at it, ask him if he wants to be the new PA announcer.

Would be cool to see Reed-Francois get tapped for it. Always good to see Hokies making waves.

Also, get away from our AD, you bitch!

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Yes...I was going to point out there is another familiar name on that list.

We put the K in Kwality

Hokies making waves...in southern California

I see what you did there

I have to think with Whit's oldest playing football at W&M and other sons in high school, this wouldn't be an ideal family move.

As if they couldn't get the hardship transfer to LA

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I see what you did there!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Just so we're all on the same page, the hardship is playing for a Mike London coached team, right?

Honestly, that's seems pretty legit to me.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Umm, well, he did ok at Richmond, didn't he?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

This is a job where a lot of big time donors have had their way for a long time and aren't going to like someone doing it their own way. A lot of resources, but...

There will be a lot of headaches.

Alternatively, money problems cause the biggest headaches in life. Ultimately, I see no reason for him to leave, just throwing that out there.

Whit would be a smart hire for them but I don't think he'd be flashy enough to appease the kind of boosters/fans a USC type of program has. Can't imagine many of them are chomping at the bit to get the Virginia Tech AD. Even if that shouldn't play a role in this type of hire it usually does. I'm not too worried yet.

To be fair, nobody would be flashy enough to appease that fan base and their boosters. ๐Ÿคฎ

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Dennis Rodman?

Click here to destroy wall.

He said flashy, not trashy.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I'm not certain they could distinguish the difference.

Click here to destroy wall.

He has enough shiny jewelry on sometimes to be quite literally the flashy hire

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Y'know, I was a Bulls fan in the day, and hated Detroit, but damn, Rodman was an outrageous talent to go with his outrageous persona. You just cannot discount the rebounding talent and drive. I don't really like him, but I don't hate him either.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Would definitely agree on that hell of a talent but hes a weird character, but then again arent we all in some peoples eyes?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Speak for yourself, man. Only weirdo I know lives in my mirror.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

FWIW, Whit just closed on a new home in Blacksburg, so you would think he isn't actively "looking".

And they just dropped their son off at William and Mary to play football.

My dad's roommate came home at Thanksgiving break his sophomore year to find out his parents had sold the house and moved without telling him. They did leave a forwarding address, though.

Click here to destroy wall.

I went home for Thanksgiving one year and found out the hard way that my parents had changed the locks.

What did you do for them to have to change the locks?!

You're asking what he had to do to make his parents change the locks. Meanwhile, I'm over here pondering the serious questions of the universe...

What the hell did 2HokiesIn1's dad's roommate do to make his parents move...and not even tell him?

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Go to school in the 70s?

Honestly, no idea.

Click here to destroy wall.

I'm thinking, Well, it was the 70s. Did the dorms even have phones? If our guy didn't call home, how could they tell him? Probably too busy moving to write a letter and go to the post office. Hell, I don't know!

No way Whit leaves Blacksburg for USC. Seems very out of character for him.

But if he does bring Desiree back.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

whit no

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Waiting on that ACC Commish gig

I thought you had to be UNC/Duke to qualify for that one.

Click here to destroy wall.

Wow, was just posting about the USC situation in another thread.

The USC job would be an awesome gig... IF (HUGE fucking IF) the AD gets autonomy over the department and can clean house, i.e. burn it to the ground. Pat Haden and Lynn Swann have been terrible. So much deadweight laying around at USC it's insane. (Clay Helton... Really?)

If I'm Whit, and I get to hand out pink slips and bring in my own people. I'd jump on that. He'll get to be the guy who ushers in the Urban Meyer era and gets USC back in the hunt.

However if he's just a token for the hangers-on skulking around the department... I wouldn't go near it.

Leonard. Duh.

I learned something today.

On the drop down for tweets in mobile, copy link to url. Then paste the link in Google or Safari, and it opens like a desktop, and gives the embed code option.

I'm thoroughly satisfied today with this learning experience.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Fuck Twitter. That is all.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

Whit is an easy coast (and local) guy, just moved into a new house, has a son going to W&M, not really an 'LA personality' to me, and would have to walk into USC and immediately make a football coaching hire that would be under a lot more scrutiny than any hire he's ever made. I can't imagine there is much of any chance he goes to USC.

He was unable to keep Buzz (yes he did bring him in but still, gotta keep the talent) and hired Fuente, I think I am ok with this

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

So he hires Mike young who held onto all the pieces except KJ and has been on fire on the recruiting trail pulling big names but thats not good enough for you?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

lol, love the serial downvoting on this site for opinions. Young has not proven anything yet, recruitcorns are just that until they are competing against other college level talent. If he comes close to matching Buzz's level of excellence I will eat my words on that front. I am not at all impressed with Fuente or convinced he has what it takes to coach at a major program.

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

So if you aren't ready to grade him because he hasn't coached a game how can you say Whit didn't make a good hire?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Besides, it's pretty obvious that Buzz could have taken over at any other school at our level and he would have moved in the same fashion in the same timeframe. Buzz has a lot of loyalty to his players, family, and staff it seems, but to him, the school he's coaching at is just details.

Click here to destroy wall.

He said he was unable to keep Buzz. Not that he made a bad hire.

I think the insuation he made that "Whit couldnt keep Buzz" is off base though. Buzz was gone as soon as aTm came calling. There was nothing Whit could do short of picking up every building in Blacksburg and moving them to College Station to keep Buzz. I think time will tell if Whit made a good move in hiring CMY, but lets not insinuate that Whit is a bad AD because he couldn't keep Buzz.

โ€œTHE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!โ€

Oh I agree that Buzz was too big for VT. No AD could have kept him. I'm not saying that Whit made a bad move.

Buzz wasn't too big for VT, he was too Texas for VT. Trust me, don't believe the bumper stickers, they aren't the same thing.

Based on Mike Young's very impressive first 6 months, I like Virginia Tech's chances to be a better program than Texas A&M five years from now.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I don't know what bumber stickers you are talking about, but he was definitely too big for VT. You know what is big in Texas? The fat stacks of cash their donors supply. That's what helps Buzz be too Texas for VT. You don't often see coaches leaving loaded programs to go coach poorer programs by their own volition.

People who say Whitt made a bad call because he couldn't keep Buzz are premature. They obviously haven't been watching the current basketball recruiting going on.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: โ€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.โ€ - David Teel Tweet 2018

I disagree with your view of Babcock. In my opinion he's a clear upgrade over Weaver, and has done at least an above average job. But I couldn't agree more that mob-mentality downvoting someone's opinion is weak shit.

People, if you disagree with someone's take then get off your ass and challenge it with facts. Clicking the downbutton is literally the laziest thing you can do. Do you really want TKP to be an echo chamber where everyone fishes for legs by mindlessly saying that everything Hokie related is awesome and perfect?

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I agree the downvotes were unnecessary here. I think Whit has done well hiring talent here.

My problem with Whit are the long term home and home series he signed with ODU and Liberty. This was a poor move and the cost savings he will enjoy with these "gimmes" will be offset by top line misses in ticket sales and associated game day revenue.

Hate them or despise them, WVU is our rival and a very comparable peer football program (not university). The series needs to be renewed long term along with revolving other P5 teams.

We should never ever travel to a barely G5 school for a football game. After more than 70 consecutive home games attended, I am intentionally missing furman and RI this year in disgust of the scheduling.

That said, I hope to keep Whit.

Beat GT

Don't blame URI on Whit. He had to find a last minute (in football less than a year is last minute) replacement for ECU canceling out on our series.

LOL you know Buzz was also starting over next year if he stayed don't you?

I would also like to point out how well our teams have been doing outside of football and men's basketball (which have done pretty good with the hires he has made as well, take off last season football goggles). He's been running a very solid athletic department that includes many added benefits for all varsity sports and anyone who thinks different is crazy.

Think I found that twitter account.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

It's almost like people forget Fuente won 10 games and then 9 games in his first two years at VT.

Apparently this never happened to him

Response: BuT He DiD iT WiTh BeAmEr'S rEcRuItS

Criticizing Whit for not keeping Brent is silly. There was no way that he wasn't going to Texas A&M. Trust me.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

Whit seems to love Virginia and to land the VT job seemed like a dream job for him.

USC from afar seems sexy, but all the trouble they have been in recently might not be that attractive to anyone taking that roll.

What's
Important
Now

Yeah. Whit stinks. Why else would one of the best sports programs in college sports history be interested in hiring him. Luckily, this is the first time Whit has relocated his family during a transient period such as a new home purchase. He surely wouldn't know how to manage a transition like this. USC also probably doesn't offer a highly incentivized moving package, lucrative contract, great facilities and endless resources. Luckily for us, it's in trashy California where the climate only stays between 60-80.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

You forgot to mention earth quakes.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Could one of them be Whit?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Smart move. I wouldn't want to have to do my job while having my head inside a guillotine.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I also wouldn't want to work for Urban Meyer haha

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

We didn't need Whit leaving right now.

I want to keep Whit, but I don't understand the hate for USC and LA. Personally, I love LA. Yes traffic sucks but I live in DC so it's comparable. Great weather, great women :) - what's to hate?

I guess the USC situation might be trash, but assuming it isn't and is comparable to VT, i'd move to LA in a heartbeat.

Only thing to really hate is the awful Pac-12 TV deal and future 9AM games.

The USC AD position could be attractive depending on the new president (who was the chancellor for UNC Chapel HIll)... If she is just a minion for the current board, then yes... terrible, terrible place for Whit. If she is given autonomy to clean the house... USC might be a sweet place to work. Very, very positive smoke signal sent up with the resignation of Lynn Swann.

Leonard. Duh.

I love LA. Yes traffic sucks but I live in DC so it's comparable.

While the rush hour is nothing to scoff, I've never been stuck in traffic at 2am in DC.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

I have, near Tyson's after seeing a really late movie.

I don't know about being stuck in 2am traffic in DC proper, but I've definitely had a 30-minute delay at 2am on 95 a bit south of the beltway. And LA traffic in general tends to clear up after 8ish, except during special events or around certain hot spots you can learn to avoid.

I think the hate for U$C has mostly to do with the booster craziness factor, similar to Texas.

As for LA, it's in the People's Republik of California, so there are $POLITICS reasons why some folks don't want to live there.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

California and China and N. Korea are the same politically?

Hmmm... even in jest that's a bad take.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Deleted. I see the community has taken care of this. My back gets up waaaay too easily these days.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Fuckin' Transfer Portal.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Talked to my friend today who worked as a few titles below the AD at USC for 20 years, and he thinks Whit is on the short list, but feels like someone like Mark Jackson at Villanova is someone they would be interested in simply because he came from the program.

What's
Important
Now

Tell him we'll send him some Hardee's coupons if he steers them away from Whit

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I heard a rumor we are out of coupons.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

He left the program a couple of years ago, so he can't help.

What's
Important
Now

Who does USC hire first? The new AD or Urban?

In Sam Rogers we trust.

Yes.

Pot twist: Urban becomes the next USC AD.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

(that was the implication of my "yes")

"Pot Twist".

Thanks, I'm using that.

Leonard. Duh.

Hey man, you got a joint..

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

I hate Urban, but it would be cool to see a coach win a natty at 3 different schools

Twitter me

Just not at USC. It is such a prima donna school already. I like it when they suck.

As someone who lives in Atlanta, I'll take anything to stop or slow the SEC circle jerk (and no, Clemson doesn't count because they're "an SEC team that plays in the ACC" *eyeroll*).

Twitter me

Probably an AD with the understanding that Urban is the next head coach so that he has to fire Helton.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

All Whit has to do is talk to Bill Roth about the differences between Blacksburg and LA to realize that he is better off here.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

I basically posted that above, but after you had posted this. Guess I should scroll through all of the comments before I circle back and reply to someone else. I'm not TKPing hard enough.

Nice paycheck, nice weather, absolute shit booster situation. If you want to be miserable but rich, sounds like a great job.

@hokie_rd

Until the boosters want your head on a platter after 2.7 years.

Yeah that was my point.

@hokie_rd

It would be a more attractive job if it wasn't for the "Varsity Blues" Scandal.

LA is a USC town, though.

What's
Important
Now

And the gynecologist sex abuse scandal, and a couple of other lesser known situations

I'm surprised about all the love for Whit Babcock. Why does anyone think he's a keeper?

easier path to this answer. Why do you feel he is not?

I guess there are several reasons I feel he is either an average or below average AD. I could write a short novel, but I'll try to keep my comments short.

As a long time donor, I feel very disenfranchised by our new (Babock) administration. I have given the VTAF what I feel is a significant amount of gifts, and I was promised certain lifetime privileges. Babcock decided to eliminate the level I was in (called something like Golden Century Club) and renege on those promises and privileges. In additional, he tacked an $800/butt premium on my seats. That didn't make me too happy, but I realize the people effected by that are few. It was a sign to me that I was no longer "family" and my previous support was now meaningless to him.

He completely blew the Nike deal. When asked about that, he said that deal was previously worked out, and he just rubber-stamped it without looking it over. I was stunned by that answer. In my opinion, that's poor leadership and negligent contracting. Being new, he should have thoroughly studied something so important to our revenue. In doing so, he gave away 10's of millions of dollars. And then a few years after that, he's complaining we're having trouble paying for basic scholarships.

I don't care for the football scheduling. He gave teams like ECU, ODU, and Liberty long-term equal series's. On ECU, it was Jim Weaver who originally set that up, but Babcock did extend it. And I have to give him credit for getting out of that deal, after ECU backed out on us last year. But he did sign new agreements with Liberty and ODU. In effect, I think he is bringing our program down to their level. ie., we are establishing those teams as new rivals. We also lose home games by doing that, and we probably make $5-6M for every home game. That's a lot of potential revenue that's lost.

I have several friends who work or did work in the athletic department, and I hear the same thing. The family atmosphere is gone. He's very distant and not the personable leader Jim Weaver was. I do admit that's a hard act to follow. Jim was the best.

I see a lot of people aren't happy with the Mike Young hire. It wasn't the big splash many wanted to see, but I'm willing to give that a while to see how it pans out. I think it will take at least 2-3 years before we can see how that works.

So, I don't see anything special from him, and I won't shed any tears when he leaves.

Interesting perspective. Who would you rather have?

I thought Weaver was an awful AD. He hired JJ and several other coaches in non/low revenue sports that were utter failures. He spent no money to further the VT brand,

That's interesting we have completely different views on Jim Weaver. I really liked him. About 20 years ago, I sent Jim an e-mail note to congratulate him on signing up a home-home with LSU. I was really excited about that. This was back when I was a fairly small donor. He called me on the phone that day, and we spoke for about 30 minutes. He told me a little about what he wanted to accomplish with football and other sports, and I really appreciated that from him. I do think he did many things to further our program, but I'll admit his later days probably weren't his best. I think his health was a major factor in that.

we spoke for about 30 minutes

That amazes me that an AD had that much time.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

IMO it's a sign he didn't have the right priorities If he spent 30 minutes on the phone with a low-level donor. An AD's time is way more valuable than that.

On the other hand, if Weaver spent 30 minutes on the phone with every donor who sent him a nice e-mail, he'd still have the entire rest of his month to work on actual AD duties.

If that 30min phone call turns a low-level donor into a larger, lifelong donor, it's time well spent

To be fair, at that point in time, that very well may have been one of the first emails Weaver ever received. That was some super important shit back then. "An electronic mail thing?? Say whaaaaaat?!?! Best call this cat on the telephone!"

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Seems like the lifetime benefit status had to go away because it was becoming an impediment to fund raising and bringing in new donors. The rest of your points seem fair.

I don't know. I don't think it was an impediment. You can never have too many donors. It's not something you place a cap on. I just feel like our whole fund raising strategy is to squeeze more from the 4% who already give, as opposed to going after the 96% that never have. It looks like the easy way out. Its much easier to get milk from the cow you already have, instead of getting more cows. Problem is, those old cows are getting dry. And it's hard to gain and keep loyalty with new donors, when they've seen what you did with the previous ones.

I realize it's a hard job. It's not something that anyone off the street can do.

Agreed.

I agree, they should start a membership drive ASAP focused on getting people on board with even just a small annual donation. Maybe target a nice round number that people associate with our football program to make it catchy, how about 25? , as in Coach Beamer's old number. 25k members would about double our #'s. That's a good start. They could even use a nice rhyming slogan like "The Drive for Twenty-Five!" to promote it.

Can't type up a lengthy response but a couple of bullet points.
1) per seat minimum donations are the standard in college football. Tech was one of the last holdouts.
2) the "family" atmosphere in the admin and Hokie Club is one of the major reasons the scholarship fund was constantly underfunded.
3) Whit has hired great coaches in his tenure at Tech especially when compared to Weaver
4) I agree about the apparel deal (but again that was a Weaver negotiated deal
5) there is absolutely no reason any team much less the football team should ever step foot on the Liberty campus for a sporting event.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

At least we are in violent agreement on your point 5.

I'm going to follow up on this:

2) the "family" atmosphere in the admin and Hokie Club is one of the major reasons the scholarship fund was constantly underfunded

A family atmosphere full of good old boys is how every coaching vacancy gets filled with James Johnson types of hires. It's a mentality that worked for us well in the 90's, but college athletics is a completely different animal now.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Thanks for a clear, well thought out response. I can see several of your points and agree that I was also disappointed with the Nike deal and his response.

So far I am cautiously optimistic about the Mike Young hire. He surrounded himself with good recruiters and has closed the deal on keeping some of our important players and brought in some nice looking talent.

I agree the hunt for more money from the season ticket holders and donors seems a little greedy, but I am not sure that any AD would be different.

Reneging on previous promises to lifetime donor levels was a really big mistake IMO. If you want to change the rules going forward, I get it, but grandfather in the people who already met your rules. There aren't that many, and they won't be around forever. I just think it sets a really bad precedent when the athletic department promises donors some lifetime benefits if they fulfill certain financial giving standards, and then after some donors hold up their end end of the agreement, the athletic department doesn't hold up their end. And I say all of this as someone who wasn't on that level, so it didn't impact me at all, but now it makes me leery of trusting anything else they promise in the future.

The criticism of the Nike deal explanation is fair. It wasn't signed before Whit took over and it's a little ridiculous to feel obligated to sign a contract that your predecessor worked on. Think if the shoe was on the foot - if Whit was swindling Nike and the Nike rep negotiating with Tech retired before it was signed, do you think Nike would just go ahead and sign it anyway? C'mon man.

I'm not a fan of the ODU or Liberty series either. I know Whit had reasons (he cited playing games at ODU as being helpful since it's so close for so many fans, and he cited the low guarantee Liberty was willing to accept as being financially attractive), but I agree there isn't a gain from playing those types of programs repeatedly or really anything less than a 2 for 1 (maybeee a 3 for 2). That said, he has positioned us with 2 P5 OOC in most years moving forward and just about eliminated FCS teams from future schedules (we have 2 this year obviously but there are only 2 scheduled for future seasons, which is a large departure from our norm of 1 every season).

Weaver was really good about running the program in the black, but it often came at the detriment of producing winning teams. Almost all of Weaver's hires were "hallway hires" that were attractive mostly because they were cheap and had VT ties. There were a lot of duds. Our overall athletic program is light years stronger now than it was under Weaver, largely because Whit has been willing to hire good coaches who don't have previous VT ties but are fits for our program.

The comments about Whit not being personable are really interesting. Obviously that is subjective, but I can say that hasn't been my experience with him at all.

No offense, but your perspective is either based on narrow personal anecdotal experience or naivetรฉ about the business of college athletics in 2019.

The only one that even remotely justifies a negative perspective is the Nike deal. And I suspect the situation wasn't as simple as you think it was. I think the bad deal was dialed in by Weaver and Babcock felt that canceling or attempting to renegotiate the deal at the 11th hour would send a bad message about VT as a fair business broker. And to cancel/renegotiate the deal and/or publicly criticize Weaver for the terrible deal (either implicitly or explicitly) would simply be throwing Weaver under the bus - which gets him and VT nothing.

Short term loss, long term gain.

Totally agree with this. Great post.

Beat GT

Nice post. I disagree with your Weaver take, but the man did what he was supposed to to improve our conference affiliation. {Still......the JJ hire. Almost ran Beamer off over $150k in assistant bonuses}

I'm curious about the lifetime promises you mentioned. Were those significant enough to be put in writing? Or were they promises never documented like those made by a car salesman (I expect those Hokie Club guys can have a similar approach)?

Pretty sure the "promises" were mostly priority-based, and Whit retooled the priority point system to weigh current giving more and historical giving and consecutive years of giving and purchasing season tickets less. This caused a number of long-term season-ticket holders to leave the seats they'd been sitting in for years.

Only if they had stopped giving.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Whit hiring Fuente, signing the Nike deal, and the poor scheduling are legitimate negatives that may outweigh just about every other move he has made since arriving in Blacksburg.

Football is king, and candidly Whit's handling of it has been substandard.

I'm not suggesting he should be fired/isn't a good AD, but he needs to right the football ship.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Fuente was either the biggest or 2nd biggest coaching name for that year. Please who should Whit have hired that year?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

You hire a bad coach, you bear the responsibility for it, period.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

So the guy made one bad coaching hire out of about 10 so far, which at the time seemed like a home run and only looks bad in hindsight, and you're ready to crucify him for it?

No one is crucifying.

I'm criticizing his overall handling of the football program, which is vastly more important than every other sport combined.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

He's treated our football program, which for decades was a bastion of consistency, with the hands-off approach that everyone expected him to 4 years ago. If he continues standing by and watching this shitshow unfold, then sure, he's not doing a good job, but he gave Fuente an appropriately sized leash at the time. Time to reel it in.

I don't have any opinions on how hands on/off he should be.

He made what looks to be a bad hire. It's fair to criticize it.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

EVERY fan base complains about their scheduling.

What you call poor scheduling is pretty much standard scheduling. It's not a legitimate negative when your aspirational peers have budgets 50% or more larger than yours.

Whit Babcock would get picked up by a blue blood athletic institution in a heartbeat if VT were to let him go. If one doesn't understand that, the issue is not with Whit.

No one is beyond reproach.

Criticizing Whit =/= suggesting we should let him go.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

True.

But by the same token, it's not wrong to point out flaws in the facts and logic of that criticism.

There are no flaws in the logic of "you shouldn't schedule Liberty".

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

This is a fair point

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Simple: the hiring of Whit Babcock is the single most important thing to happen to VT athletics since Michael Vick stepped on campus.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Texas and USCw both reportedly had him on their short list. Weaver was a very nice man but made some very poor hires and almost lost CFB at one time. I don't think many would consider him to have been anywhere near the caliber AD Whit is, especially in the current environment. Whit handled the CFB retirement and transition flawlessly, hired a highly sought after coach to replace him. Buzz was a home run, Mike Young will be too. Sfezc, Kenny Brooks etc. Very lucky to have him. I think he will be a strong candidate to replace Swofford when he retires.

I'm really, really surprised at the negativism towards Jim Weaver. He's a member of the VT Hall of Fame. He didn't get there for doing nothing. I'm guessing the ire being expressed is due to some unfortunate circumstances during his last years. The man was suffering and dying from Parkinsons. I think he deserves a little break. And he should be judged on his entire career. I've been around since the Dooley days, so I can recall Jim's entire career. It was stellar. He grew football to a near national power (the most important sport), he brought basketball out of the Atlantic 10, into the Big East (a major basketball conference at the time) and eventually all sports into the ACC. He always kept us running in the black. He was a master at that. I could go on and on.

You are praising Babcock for his hires. I can't argue too much about Buzz. He took us to levels we have never seen. But he is now gone, and we are starting over. Buzz had no loyalty to us. I guess that's the way most coaches are now. Fuente? Year 1 was great. Year 2 was good. Last year wasn't good. We had our worst record since 1992 and slipped into a bowl game only because Marshall didn't seem to care much. And if you haven't watched any 2019 games so far, it ain't going so well so far. When I look at our 2020 football verbals, we are clearly dropping down a significant level in talent. I think there is reason to worry about where we are heading. Mike Young will be a home run? I don't know how you can say that when the man has yet to coach a game here. Sfezc? His overall record here is 47-60, with a 17-43 ACC mark. You can't hang all them on him being his 1st 2 years, but you can't go calling him a great hire either. Honestly, I know little about Kenny Brooks and his program, and I really don't care how our women's basketball program does.

Honestly, I know little about Kenny Brooks and his program, and I really don't care how our women's basketball program does

That's a you problem. Don't discount the importance of something just because you "really don't care" about it.

Also, you may not care about wrestling but that's been phenomenal under Whit and got VT an individual (not team) national champion. Great things are happening even if it's not the great things you, in particular, care about.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Agreed. And to piggyback on this, you don't become a great athletic national power with a good football team and nothing else. This isn't the 90s anymore. The interest level in football has peaked and is declining and the interest level in soccer, basketball, and other sports is increasing. Tech is now in the ACC and is transforming all facets of the university- see the Amazon deal. No longer looking to be just an AG/engineering school with a football team, but a true well rounded University academically and athletically. So the attention to ALL details of the athletic program are of paramount importance.

I asked originally so want to reply and offer my opinion as well. (I haven't read all comments above so I may repeat some)

Looking at Weaver's career in total I think he deserves to be in the VT Hall of Fame. For sure. I would not however classify him as a "great" AD. Far from it.

I do think he gave a lot more time to fans than Whit, but I also think he was much less involved in the going ons and administration of the department than Whit.

Weaver managed VT as best he knew how, and to his credit it helped to propel VT upward even if that meant he simply provided a stable financial foundation and little to nothing else. However, I would lay the vast majority of VT's upward mobility at the feet of Frank Beamer, not Jim Weaver.

some of my major gripes:
1) For as much as you remember him fondly for him giving special attention to you and fans in general, he was comically out of touch with fans. We wanted Thursday Night Games, he took them away. We wanted more night games, he gave us more nooners. We wanted a diverse schedule, he locked us into a never-ending deal with an opponent we care little for and whom cared little for us.
2) He either didn't care about them or was so unbelievably overmatched at the negotiating table that he signed some disastrous apparel deals. You want to lay that at Whit but it all came from Weaver.
3) He nearly lost Beamer because of his tight purse strings the year after we went to the National Championship. Not only that but when Whit was hired we were so far behind in numbers of support staff it was hindering success. Running in the black is great. Running anything in the black just because is a problem. which leads me to my biggest gripe...
4) He subverted VT's moment in the national spotlight. After the '99 season we had a brief moment where the entire country was talking about VT and it came off the hard work of Beamer and Foster. This was time to spend. Spend to improve facilities, spend to increase staff and compete with recruiting, spend to keep Beamer from walking (which Steger thankfully intervened and saved). Spend to seize that moment... and he did nothing. He squandered it. Even worse he didn't even realize just how big of an impact his terrible management was having. By the time Whit took over, everything needed addressing. Everything was mismanaged, not in a way that it caused us to lose money but in a way that was holding us in the 90s while everyone else was racing toward 2020.

You may call that harsh, but I call it fair.

He deserves to be in the VT Hall of Fame because he was the steward during our rise, but he got that HOF honor due to Beamer.

My biggest gripe with Weaver is the ending of "Stick it in".