ESPN: Tyrod Taylor hospitalized due to team doctor mishap

I can't post the link from this machine, but ESPN is reporting that Tyrod was hospitalized due to the Charger's team doctor puncturing his lung while giving him a pain-killing injection. This particular procedure was done to allow Tyrod to play through some cracked ribs, but instead he had trouble breathing due to his punctured lung.

That is the worst luck I have read about in a while.

[mod edit: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29952469/chargers-qb-tyrod-taylor-lu... ]

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I would think a fine needle puncture, even to the lung, would heal pretty fast? What a horrible accident though.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

the puncture might heal quickly, but if fluid was introduced in to the lung then that's definitely not good.

He is now out indefinitely. I would be lawyering up if it were me. This is inexcusable on the team doctor's part.

I am no doctor but indefinitely seems to have a different meaning for regular doctors versus how the term is used for sports. Otherwise, holy cow what is going on?

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

i think sports medicine has a totally different paradigm than 99.999% of the rest of the world. For most of us health care is a slow and deliberate process that has to balance cost with just enough effectiveness. For sports medicine its get them the best thing to get them on the field and keep them on the field... cost is a distant factor considering how much teams are paying in annual salaries.

That is the worst luck I have read about in a while.

Luck is one way of putting it. Medical malpractice is another. I mean, how much money could he have lost by missing out on that start?

Also, link:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29952469/chargers-qb-tyrod-taylor-lu...

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

a decent amount depending on how long he has to sit out. You would think if he misses multiple games and Herbert plays well, the Chargers are gonna go with their rookie as the starter even if Lynn has been backing Tyrod thus far. Feel bad for Tyrod, he just can't catch a break. I mean he's had a long career in the league but whenever he earns the starting spot he jut runs into the worst luck

I've seen a few comments like this about how much Tyrod could get for damage to his career. But also, how about normal damages for just being STABBED IN THE LUNG? Guessing those aren't inconsequential regardless of his career.

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

From everything I can gather this is a pretty risky shot even with imaging, blind its pretty understandable how he fucked that up.

(add if applicable) /s

Does the shot just need to go beneath the skin or what? I'm pretty sure I could poke a needle in someone's chest and not puncture lung if it just has to go beneath the skin. I gotta think if the risk is getting a needle to the lung, you don't go with that option unless it's so unlikely that it's worth the risk. If it's somewhat likely to get a punctured lung, not sure why you'd do it, unless there was something major riding on the game.

I think for this injection, the doctor was likely trying to hit a nerve which would be deeper than just below the skin. I don't think it's likely to hit a lung, but it's definitely going to be a risk sticking a needle below or between ribs.

Carpenters do this thing where you mark a drill bit so you drill in to the mark so you don't drill too far (like a piece of tape). Seems like you could do something like that, and err on the side of going not deep enough rather than too far. Like if ribs are an inch thick, put a tape marker (or sanitary gauze) on the needle at 1/2 inch. Bam, no lung piercing.

Seriously, this seems so logical to me. I am also fond of saying that doctors are just mechanics for the human body, but shit gets slightly more complicated than gapping spark plugs and tightening belts.

Does the shot just need to go beneath the skin or what? I'm pretty sure I could poke a needle in someone's chest and not puncture lung if it just has to go beneath the skin.

/s, right?

Not sure why you'd think it would be sarcastic. I don't know how close to a nerve you have to get for a local anesthetic to deaden the pain. But, like I said, if the risk is puncturing a lung, you gotta go for closer to the skin than closer to the lung. I'm no doctor but I know that. That's risk management 101. And like I said, this wasn't the super bowl he was getting ready for, so why do something that would risk you getting a punctured lung unless it was something that was somewhat standard or characterized to you as being low risk. Because somehow, being out indefinitely from a punctured lung doesn't seem like it was worth the risk to play.

/s because of the part of your post that I block quoted, not the part that you're now defending. The (paraphrasing) "I could do a nerve block procedure without pucnturing the lung" attitude, which again is the part of your post that I block quoted, is just absurd. And, you just said it yourself, "I'm not doctor, but even I know..." -- they know this, too, they go through a lot of schooling to learn this stuff. You then compare a carpenter putting tape on some wood to a medical procedure, which is also absurd, no offense to carpenters (I think they're awesome), but come on...

The risk management part of your post, which you chose to defend here even though it's not the part that I quoted for the /s, I totally get and agree with. If there was a decent enough risk of this happening...maybe skip it and sit out for game 2 and come back after some more healing time.

You then compare a carpenter putting tape on some wood to a medical procedure,

Ummmmm, I think the tape would go on the drill bit/needle ๐Ÿ˜‰

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No shit every Doctor knows that.

Doug, I'm just kidding with you. I thought it was a good analogy even if not practical.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Yeah, I hate harping on it, but when puncturing a lung is the risk, it seems like you gotta do something to make sure you don't do that. I don't know why you couldn't use sterile gauze or something to mark a needle. Not enough doctors that dabble in carpentry is my guess.

"marking" the needle also implies that you have an accurate measurement of how much needle can go in and still be safe. Not sure the trainer/doctor had access to blueprints of Tyrod's thoracic region. That's why you would go a route like using an ultrasound to get a live cross section of the patient and the needle's position relative to the lungs and target nerve.

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There's gotta be some way to tell. You make it sound SOOOO complicated. If the average rib is .75 inches (or whatever), divide that by half (or a third) and don't go deeper than that. I'm not sure why the concept of "if the risk is puncturing the lung, you err on the side of under penetrating" is that complicated?

Edit: I'm done defending that position. You're clearly of the thought that you have to get it as close as possible, using whatever means necessary, and screw possibly hitting lung, let's get that nerve numbed, just like the doctor that punctured his lung, put him in the hospital, and put him out of not just this game, but all games for the immediate future.

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@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I love the fact that it is being reported as "accidentally". Like you would ever "intentionally" puncture a lung right before kickoff.

Team doctor just got sick of the way Tyrod was walking around acting like he owned the place, breathing and what not.

Wow that makes so much sense, I had heard that he reacted badly to the injection but this is the first I'm hearing the medical reason why.

Poor Tyrod can't catch a break. Whether it's sitting behind Joe Flacco on his rookie contract, QB mismanagement by the Bills, or this shit he's had a lot of setbacks in his career.

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punctured lung is no joke. Happened to Eric Lindros in the NHL back in 1999 due to a bodycheck, and he nearly died because of it overnight.

The fact this happened due to a team doctor rushing a procedure and completely fucking it up, and then injecting the shot into the air cavity of his lungs... Holy shit, that's just so many levels of incompetence.

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One question that will need to be cleared, and I'm sure our lawyer types could provide further clarification here, but who requested the shot?

If Tyrod had been cleared to play by the team doc and Tyrod requested the shot, that could impact whatever final decision is rendered here. There may even have been a waiver or other conversations.

Now if the team doc was the driving force behind the shot, then should be easy case.

This really stinks for Tyrod though. He never really got the respect he deserved in the NFL. He was not only a good team player, but he helped so many others out there. Hopefully he heals up, and maybe he can come back to VT in some type of role.

Previously LowBrau.

Does it matter who asked for the shot? It's not unreasonable to assume a doctor will perform every procedure safely no matter who requests the procedure.

Depends. If the doctor explains the risks for the shot and potential issues and Tyrod says "Understood" and asks for the shot, then it changes some of the liability. He went in knowing the risks and asked for it anyway.

Previously LowBrau.

That would likely only be the case IF the doctor didn't recommend it, the shot was really risky or was Known to have likely complications, and the doctors procedure methods were still within the normal standards of care. Assumption of risk only goes so far when it comes to negligence/med mal.

To me that's more of an Informed Consent issue but that doesn't clear the doctor necessarily.

Here lies It's a Stroman Jersey I Swear, surpassed in life by no one because he intercepted it.

Dude, fuck that doctor. Tyrod's about to get paid.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Live look at the Chargers team doctor:

From what I understand, that is one of the complications that may come from a shot in that location. I doubt there would be any lawsuit arising from this. Tyrod almost certainly agreed to the shot which has some risk associated to it like any other procedure. I believe it would have to include gross negligence by the doctor that can be proven such as being drunk, or doctor used a atypical piece of equipment to administer it like a much longer needle that would never be used for this situation.

This is what I've been wondering about and hope someone with a law and medical background can chime in on.

Previously LowBrau.

As someone who does these blocks it was most likely an intercostal block or trigger point injection for rib pain.

Although it is a risk of the procedure consent barely means anything anymore, we like to joke it gets thrown in the shredder after it's signed. Will be interesting to see how this plays out from a compensation of lost wage standpoint.

Glad I was on the right track using my internet MD and JD. Since NFL contracts are different than typical salaries that is normal people are exposed to, I was thinking about how he may lose compensation based on incentives. Incentives are not guaranteed though, so it would be difficult to argue that as lost wages I would think. I wonder if there is an incentive insurance that NFL players can get that is like the draft insurance that college players can get.

Yikes.... Ok.

When you perform said procedure you get consent... One of the known risks is 'puncturing the lung'.. causing a pneumothorax, etc.

Disclaimer: Alot we don't know.. location, extent of procedure, injury, does Tyrod have underlying predisposition, etc ...

But.... That sucks!

I've done many a trigger point injections for rib pain, central lines, thoracenteces....

It can happen, but it's not typical....
If there's air in the pleural space, at best, he'll need rest, serial x-rays..it takes a few weeks to re-sorb the air and a few weeks more (for normal people, not NFL QB's getting tackled) to heal, reduce risk of recurrence.
A worse scenario is he gets a chest tube with vacuum seal to get air out over the next week, then tube is removed and I'd be hard pressed to tell an athlete to return to contact for quite a while.

Bad day for everyone involved.....

So, more than likely the procedure being attempted here was a Thoracic nerve block. In Medical terms, an Intracostal nerve block.

And while it might seem incredible that a lung could get punctured, its really not difficult to do, nor is there a foolproof way to prevent it. The nerve (and vessels) are located at the inferior edge of the rib and the pleura (or lung lining) is easily within the reach of a needle.

There are a lot of factors that have to be considered here. Number one, there are generally 2 ways to go about this--either with ultrasound guidance or not..in modern times, use of an ultrasound would be recommended by most.

Number two, what sort of needle and of what length was used? Generally, a 20-25 gauge needle would be used (bigger gauge = smaller diameter). Even if you were to punch through the pleura, without a lot of extra manipulation it is hard for me to understand how one could cause a significant pneumothorax.

Number 3...how large was the pneumothorax (air between the lung tissue and pleura)? This can usually be seen on xray and is expressed in terms of amount of lung involved..i.e. 30%
A small, 10% pneumo would not be totally outside of the realm of possibility for this procedure, though it would definitely be an adverse outcome. A bigger pneumo...like 25% or more would tell me something was very much done improperly.

I think the bigger questions to me are...
1. Did the doctor performing the procedure have enough experience with this procedure to consider him proficient?
2. Did the Chargers vet this doctor adequately to ensure the above?
If either answer is "No", then TT could have a VERY large settlement coming his way soon.

Just my two cents...

This sounds complicated. How long of a process is this? He was warming up, went into the locker room, and when the team came out, went straight to the sideline and sat down. Could this procedure have been rushed in the back of a locker room?

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BSME 2009

The procedure itself takes probabaly 5-10 min despite how complicated it sounds.

In experienced hands, particularly with ultrasound guidance it can be done safely and quickly.

It could have been done in a rushed fashion pre-game, that would certainly be one of my concerns. Whether it was rushed or just simply done with poor technique--only those in the room would know. Its also possible that the entire procedure was done by the book and just had a poor outcome.

FTFY


2. Did the Chargers vet this doctor adequately to ensure the above?

2. Was the doctor actually a Vet?

and if he was, what branch?

In the Navy, if you had cracked ribs, you just got 2 Motrin and an cup of hot coffee.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

___

-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

Number two, what sort of needle and of what length was used? Generally, a 20-25 gauge needle would be used (bigger gauge = smaller diameter). Even if you were to punch through the pleura, without a lot of extra manipulation it is hard for me to understand how one could cause a significant pneumothorax.

But according to a post above all you need to do is put some electrical tape on the needle at a depth as you would a drill bit to prevent the needle from puncturing the lung. Dont they make a slip collar to put on the needles to keep them from going to deep? /s

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@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

Thanks for the info.

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Hokie Club member since 2017

The upside for Tyrod is that his ribs will now get a chance to fully heal and he won't have to spend the whole season reinjuring the ribs and getting shots.

Down side is that, despite what Lynn says, he's likely lost the starting gig

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Agreed, that goes without saying. Herbert will have a couple months to get experience, but he could get injured, he could make a lot of bad decisions, could turn the ball over a lot, and prove that Tyrod gives the team a better chance to win even if he's not as flashy. Lynn likes Tyrod, trusts him, and has a strong relationship with him. We'll see.

Regardless, Tyrod will be back and he can get paid very well for another 5+ years as a backup at the very least, especially for teams that want a good veteran QB who can get a high valued rookie ready to start by leading by example, showing them how to prepare the right way to start.

So, kinda off topic, but is there a statute of limitations on medical malpractice? My dad was to get a nephrostomy tube maybe 15 years ago. Somehow the surgeon punctured his lung which lead to a long hospital stay and long term issues with pulmonary function.

Good luck and hopes for a quick recovery to TT. This sucks.

Takeaways:

Not that uncommon.

Shouldnt be long term risk

Best guess is out two weeks as precaution

There is no lawsuit here. If Tyrod never gets back into starting role it is unfortunate but probably likely to have happened at some point this season anyway. Hate it for him.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Is that this doctor?

The California Medical Board believes that David Chao should lose his medical license. Nearly two dozen former patients who have sued him since 1998โ€”alleging in all the medical superfecta of malpractice, personal injury, negligence, and fraudโ€”would agree. Dissenting: the NFL and the San Diego Chargers, for whom Chao has served as team physician for the past 15 years.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Read that article. Holy shit.

Thanks for posting. I wouldn't trust that guy with a tongue depressor.

Click here to destroy wall.

Worth noting he's the Chargers former doctor, not current.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

That's just because you know what I can do with a tongue depressor.

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Excellent show.

Darn. I guess we'll have to go with the "stick a piece of tape on the needle" idea from above after all.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

In my opinion Tyrod will be compensated for this whether he agreed to the risks of the procedure or not. The NFLPA will fight hard on this one creating a narrative that paints a picture of a player who already puts his body on the line for an organization, getting seriously injured by a representative of that same organization.