Virginia Tech Football Loses Overtime Snooze-Fest to Wake Forest 3-6

The Hokie offense comes up short as Tech falls to the Demon Deacons.

Virginia Tech players watch in anguish as Wake Forest kicks the winning field goal. [Michael Shroyer]

It was the most predictable game of Virginia Tech's season. The Hokies went into Winston-Salem, played a horrifying game against an excruciatingly bad opponent and nose-dived their way to a 6-3 overtime loss against Wake Forest.

I'm going to be perfectly honest writing this game story. I dreaded coming to BB&T Field all week. I wasn't apprehensive because it meant that I had to work on a Saturday, or because I elected to miss a basketball game for it. No, I dreaded coming to this specific Virginia Tech football game because I thought I knew exactly what sort of ugliness was in store.

I was so, so wrong.

"It was a tough day at the office, one that I don't think anybody in the organization is particularly proud of," said a somber Frank Beamer in his post-game press conference. "But again individually you say 'what could I have done today and what should I not have done that hurt this football team, hurt our chances to win,' and there's a lot of those for all of us."

For Beamer's offense, the game felt more like going into the office moments before the building was bulldozed. In four quarters and two overtime possessions they managed to total three points, 254 yards and an infinite number of groans from the few thousand Tech fans in attendance. The Hokies' worst flaws were exposed over and over again as the Deacons defense piled up stops. Blockers were blown up, play calls were questionable and the passing game was downright anemic.

Starting quarterback Michael Brewer looked like the second best signal caller on his team, completing 15 of 28 passes for 126 yards with one interception. Recently unveiled Wild Turkey quarterback Brenden Motley, on the other hand, ran an extremely effective series in the third quarter that included completing a 17-yard pass to Cam Phillips.

Inexplicably, after driving his team down to the Wake 26, Motely was pulled off the field in favor of his counterpart. The drive ended with Brewer botching a bubble screen to Bucky Hodges that resulted in a fumble recovery by the Demon Deacons. It would end up being the closest that the Hokies would get to the Wake Forest end zone in regulation.

"We had a plan that we were going to play [Motley] roughly between 8 and 12 snaps," said offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler. "He did some good things. We'll watch the tape to see if we should have kept him in there for the remainder [of the game]."

J.C. Coleman showed flashes for the second week in a row, ending up with 98 yards. He also had one explosive 31-yard fourth quarter run that looked like it would end things in regulation. From the press box it looked like he needed one more block from receiver Isaiah Ford to spring him, but it was all for not.

In case you were wondering, that possession ended with a Tech punt from midfield.

The defense played as well as they were expected to, yet could never catch a break from their counterparts on the other side of the ball. While they weren't perfect by any means, Bud Foster's unit still held their opponent scoreless through four quarters despite being consistently put in tough spots.

"I've never seen a defense have to defend such a short field consistently," said defensive coordinator Foster, "and we had to do it again today."

The only thing that went in Foster and company's favor was the performance from Wake's redshirt freshman kicker Mike Weaver, which could have been labeled NSFW. Weaver missed kicks three kicks in regulation, one from 42 yards and two from 37, keeping the Hokies in the game with each blunder.

Despite the three misses, first-year Wake head coach Dave Clawson had faith in his guy. In overtime Clawson trotted out his kicker and watched him make not just the first kick, but the game winner as well.

"I didn't mind playing for overtime because if you go by the batting average of the kickers that is an advantage for us," said Clawson. "Mike just had to let the early ones go."

For many obvious reasons this loss makes next Friday's game against Virginia even more important. Not only is the win streak against the Cavaliers up in the air, but now the bowl streak is as well. Though that game looms large, it shouldn't overshadow what happened this week.

Forget losing to the Wahoos, losing to a two-win Wake Forest team is the type of game that makes people reconsider things. For fans it makes you reconsider your travel plans on the Friday after Thanksgiving, and perhaps your season ticket plan next year. For a recruit, it could surely make you reconsider whether or not Virginia Tech is the right choice for you. And for administrators like Whit Babcock, it makes you consider all available options going into the most important Commonwealth Cup matchup in recent memory.

Whit doesn't have a comment yet, but after a game like this I can only imagine that he'll have something to say at some point. And when he does, I would wager that he'll have memories of this game burning in the back of his mind.


How shitty must that defense feel, knowing that they shut out a P5 team, only to lose the game?

So when you want to talk about somebody playing 'ugly ball', I think we've found the subject for discussion. Ugly ball, more than any other game in any sport I can remember in a very long time. Ugly. Pure & simple - ugly.

A new hope

Not everyone, but I would have left Scot Loeffler in the parking lot.

We had a plan that we were going to play [Motley] roughly between 8 and 12 snaps," said offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler. "He did some good things. We'll watch the tape to see if we should have kept him in there for the remainder [of the game].

If you can't blatantly see what everyone else is seeing and adjust during the game, you don't deserve to be a coach.

That comment by Loeffler made my head explode

This comment made my eyes bleed!!!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Everybody is pissed, I get it. But was that Loefflers call or Frank being a back seat driver? Im a huge fan of Frank Beamer, but when I was watching that it felt like a Frank move.

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

I really don't think frank meddles with the offense or play calling very much during the game

Stick it in! Stick it in!

I don't either. I'm not sure he knows many of the offensive players names.

Obviously tongue-in-cheek. Made me laugh.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

I'm somewhat serious. From those ESPN behind the scenes pieces, he doesn't seem dialed into the details, outside of the STs.

And I believe the DiNardo fake punt very well could have been Beamer saying the code word in error. Acuity goes quickly.

We've changed all the offensive coaches, yet the play calling and end results continue to be the same. He may not be the front seat navigator but he's definitely the back seat driver.

Correlation isn't causation. We simply don't know how involved Frank is with play calling, and claiming that you somehow know because our offense has been bad under 2 different offensive staffs is comical.

our offense has been bad since tyrod left. the only thing that saved it was Bud's D and about 20 Defensive TD's in the last 3 years. Not to mention we didn't get a recruit from the OL for 3 fu*k*ng recruiting years LOL

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

What's not to say that Tyrod made that offense. Meaning that the offense was bad, he just made it work. Same for Vick? Sometimes super talent can overcome.

Previously LowBrau.

I second the motion... really good Offensive Coordinators also don't take a successful play (see the first nice J.C. Coleman run) and then run it again (with or without variations) on the next play just because it worked the first time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen him do that this year. A play goes well for nice gain...then it's run into the ground until it is stopped....then it's abandoned. A good coordinator mixes it up and is not predictable. And the removal of Motley after he came in, provided a change of pace and did well just makes no sense.

Long live Rasche Hall

I can't tell you how many times I've seen him do that this year. A play goes well for nice gain...then it's run into the ground until it is stopped....then it's abandoned.

That's actually the first time I've heard this complaint about SL. To me it usually seems like he doesn't stick with what is working enough. He tries to fix what isn't broken but in your case it seems like you're saying he runs a play into the ground until it no longer works.

No, that's not exactly what I was saying. I agree with you in that he doesn't stick with what is working enough. I'm talking about back to back plays. On many occasions I've seen the OC call a running play that works really well...gets 8, 10 or more yards... then, the immediate play afterwards, he calls nearly the exact same play (or a slight variation...maybe to the opposite side)....this time it's stopped cold. THEN, the OC abandons the play for most or all of the rest of the game and it's barely seen again. Then, here come the lateral passes and bubble screens. That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion..but I swear I've seen it too many times to mention.

Long live Rasche Hall

Ah I see what you're saying. I haven't personally noticed that to be the case but leg for elaborating. I'll keep what you said in the back of my mind when looking at the film.

Have you watched Gus Malzahn coach in the past 3 year? He runs the same run plays over and over again until a defense proves that they can stop it. There is nothing wrong with that.

Logan 3:16

You're right...there isn't anything at all wrong with that. But the sad fact is, this year with what we have (and have lost personnel-wise) we can't do it. We've been stopped nearly every time...either on 2nd or 3rd down. When this happens...don't be predictable SL....don't play around, but don't be predictable. We don't have the horsepower currently to do that. Then make sure you do not abandon for long periods of time those things that had promise.

Long live Rasche Hall

"We'll watch the tape to see if we should have kept him in there for the remainder [of the game]."

Are you kidding me? You have to watch the tape? Are you not paying attention to what is happening during the game? Maybe that is your problem.

Can you come up with some better cookie-cutter excuse than that?

Someone in a professional position should look at the facts, evaluate the situation, and adjust. It appears that our OC just sticks with the game plan; has no ability to adjust during the game.

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

I am no SL apologist, but he has never been one to make notable comments after a game. I'm pretty sure it was evident to him that Motley should have been left in, but he has always been weary of making comments during the post-game emotion.
Not defending him for not benching Brewer, just saying he isn't going to say anything of significance until he can review the game semi-objectively.

"I thought the kid right there you're talking to right there played his nuts off."

Hold on here, does anyone really think lefty is going to unilaterally pull Brewer without Franks input? Has any oc ever changed qbs without the process starting with the HC?

Bottom line this is on Frank

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Wake Forest is a shit football team and they completely shut us down this week in a game between the 2 division bottom feeders in the ACC. We got shut out in regulation by what was the worst team in the conference.

I say was, because we're the worst team now. I have never seen a program regress like this over a couple months before. Absolute coaching failure this year that deserves serious deliberation on whether or not any of the coaches should be retained this off-season. Beamer included. No excuses for today they failed us.

Motley fumbles once while trying to gain extra yards and he's benched. Brewer has 2 of the most careless turnovers I've ever seen in back to back plays and they keep with him. Absolute stupidity from the guys in charge. They didn't put us in a position to win and with a bowl on the line that's unforgivable.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Two points:

1. The kids haven't given up yet so the coaches are still doing something right.

Brewer has 2 of the most careless turnovers I've ever seen in back to back plays

2. The quick screen throw that was a fumble recovery was not on Brewer. It was on Bucky to secure it and on I believe Stanford to block the defender which he totally whiffed allowing a jarring hit on Bucky. So i dont put that on brewer

A new hope

"The kids haven't given up yet" is literally the lowest bar you can have in this situation.

If I could give multiple legs this post would receive them. "the kids haven't given up....." Mike London would use that as a reason for an extension.

#2 it looked like brewer threw it high live and I think Bucky would've had a tough time securing it anyway considering the wake d was on him right away. the screen fooled no one

no one on offense played a perfect game at all so there's tons of blame to go around.

tyrod did it mikey! tyrod did it!

Bucky got his hands on it - so he should have caught it, period. Period. No excuses. There have been MANY lectures on here about how any time the receiver touches the ball, he MUST catch it, no exceptions. Over & over that has been repeated. The blame goes to Hodges on that, because he didn't hang on to it.

LOL! Really? Any QB worth a crap could see that play was blown up. Never should have been called because wake had 3 guys on every screen we threw. It had no chance and neither did the receiver. Period.

2. The quick screen throw that was a fumble recovery was not on Brewer. It was on Bucky to secure it and on I believe Stanford to block the defender which he totally whiffed allowing a jarring hit on Bucky. So i dont put that on brewer

Here's the thing, the QB gets a pass if it touches the receiver but, you can't throw there when there is a guy gunning to de-cleat a reciever, when the play is going laterally or behind the line of scrimmage. (in essence, it is like an interception) That means you aren't making your read first, but locking in on one thing. Defenders see that. That is a check down type-of-play. Eat it. These little plays, in addition to the losing yards on a broken play versus keeping yards and staying somewhat on schedule, are the plays that have many calling for your head. I don't think brewer is bad but the inconsistency at the position that is supposed to be the most consistent is what is frustrating.

"This is really a lovely horse, I once rode her mother." - Ted Walsh

Totally agree with you. That defender had a running start because he knew what the play call was. Brewer should have checked off or throw it the stands.

There was a blocker out there that should have kept the defender 5 yards away from Hodges... without going back and watching it, watching it live it looked like the pass was thrown before the missed block, you can't fault Brewer for not anticipating that a WR would miss his block.. but like I said that was only my impression watching it live, replays may show me to be wrong

One guy cannot block 3.

true, but it was only 1 guy that blew the play up... the same one guy that passed by the WR completely untouched

Not sure why this was downvoted people... the WR was laying on his stomach watching the guy he was supposed to block blow up the play. What is Brewer supposed to do, run out there and block the guy while the ball is in the air?

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

The inaccurate high throw from Brewer was part of the problem. Don't think he was throwing over any one EU other, IIRC. Someone who knows more about football than me can correct me, but those passes should almost always go forward in case something like that happens; then it becomes an incomplete pass.

THIS. How are we consistently missing our 8 foot tall TE on SCREEN plays. I've counted several times this year where Bucky has had to either lunge or leap for a screen pass. Not only is a bad pass there particularly dangerous for the offense (turnovers), even when Bucky makes the spectacular catch he has zero momentum after landing back on his feet and is surrounded by defenders.

If the pass had been ' forward' then we still would have had the ball.

better yet, since we had JUST GOTTEN INTO FG RANGE FOR THE FIRST TIME ALL GAME if it had been a run instead of a pass I would have been fine with that. In that situation I would run, run, run, kick if I have to. I wouldn't have thrown it once we finally got into striking distance. I would have played possession and position to set up a manageable FG for Slye. Get 3 points on the board there and we escape Winsten-Salem with a (very ugly) 3-0 win and bowl eligibility

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Just to clarify, it was Cam Phillips who whiffed on the block.

It was a horrible throw

Stick it in! Stick it in!

Just got off the phone with roomy from VT, who happened to be a very successful HS FB coach. This one is all on Brewer, he needs to see the defensive set and the proper call would have been to check to a run play or send the blocker on a go route, which would have been wide open. He only calls them as he sees them.

Foster " I have never seen a defense have to consistently defend the short field". Sounds like he is also fed up with this s**t show of an offense.


He has every right to be pissed!!

Bud must be in football Purgatory..he's endured worse punishment than any other coach in the country for over a decade now...its unbelievable that he's still working in Blacksburg. For his sake I almost hope that he gets an opportunity elsewhere in the near future. I'd love to see Bud achieve the success that he deserves. I just don't see that happening any time soon in Blacksburg and he's not getting any younger.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

At this point he deserves to be head coach. He's biting his tongue right now but he's absolutely right and he's saying what needs to be said. Our offense is shit and is costing us wins. Our defense did enough to more than win us this game today and the offense did so little that we lost. Unacceptable.

If I'm Bud, I'm seriously considering leaving this program after this season. The ineptitude of the offense is killing his reputation on defense.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Bud had chances to leave before, but chose to cast his lot with Frank. Now is another one of those times when he's reminded the sword has two sides to the blade.

I don't know the exact specifics off the top of my head but Bud has that retention annuity that was helping to keep him around. I think that "vests" for lack of a better word this year.

I believe it was if bud stays through the end of this year (2014 season)he gets an 800k bonus.

tyrod did it mikey! tyrod did it!


buds annuity

Might have been the only thing keeping him around these last couple years...scary thought.

He does have that annuity, but that was just set up five years ago or so. Bud had chances to go to elite programs well before that, and repeatedly refused to even interview. He deserves the $800K, but that is not at all the reason he stays with Frank. I have sympathy for him, but he knew the deal way back, and accepted it. So let's just keep that in mind. It's not like this game suddenly opened anyone's rational thought processes about Frank Beamer and his offensive failings. They've been evident for many, many years. It's just that Frank's defenders have always succeeded in shouting down anyone who dared question before. Just ask Jason in Arlington...

He stays in hopes to get the HC job. Yes, he's loyal to Beamer, but the reason for staying is definitely more than that.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

The ineptitude of the offense is killing his reputation on defense

I've been saying this for years...can you imagine how much of a genius Bud would look like to everyone else if he had an offense like BC, FSU, Oregon, Auburn, Alabama, Miami, Wisconsin, Harvard, Oklahoma, Duke, Miss St. Texas A&M, or Clemson (basically anyone else besides us or Florida right now) on his sideline?

We have lost SOOOOO many games because of offensive shortcomings....there have been NUMEROUS games where the defense did enough to win but the team fell short as a whole anyway and it's seriously frustrating.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

and don't forget, BC had THREE starters coming back on offense yet they have no problems moving the ball (at least compared to us)...they had to replace pretty much all of their playmakers. coaching.

He said he would install a true spread offense, which would allow is to throw off the opponent's D either with through the air or on the ground. With his genius mind in understanding the opponent's defense and a smart OC, our team could be in the playoff hunt.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

I think he's been fed up for awhile, he has just kept it to himself.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

The team with the best offense won this game which only happened to be at the hands of the worst team of all of the ACC.

Good luck to us beating UVA.

get some dum-dums!

For 2 years, I listened to FB say that Logan gives us the best chance to win football games, then this past year it is Michael Brewer gives us the best chance to win football games. Well, the reality is, Frank needs to retire and that will give us the best chance to win football games. I love FB, but sometimes you need to move on. We need to put the statue outside of Lane stadium and move on.

This team would be ten times better with Logan Thomas. No doubt about it. None.

Could not agree more.

I'm not so sure. Probably a similar record, +-1 win. Not sure VT wins in the shoe w/ Logan. Everyone knew what Logan could/couldn't do before this year.

There is literally nothing Brewer did in the OSU game that Logan couldn't have done. Rewatch the game please, Brewer started off hot and then very quickly the whole offense cooled off. If Foster wasn't a genius, that OSU team ends up blowing Tech away.

Been saying the same thing since the day after the tOSU game. But everyone was still riding the hight so I was just being a negative nancy. That wasn't an overly impressive offensive performance AT ALL. Defense pressured a very green QB and Ohio State's receivers left a lot of points on the field. That game won't be close next year in Blacksburg without a vastly improved offensive line and a better QB. Neither of which is likely.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

This is just not true. Brewer was hitting guys in rhythm and showed great footwork in the pocket, two things Logan never did well. Scott Loeffler does not have LT throwing from his own EZ on 3rd and long.

Problem is that we haven't seen THAT Brewer since.

The throw out of the endzone to Isaiah Ford? To play devil's advocate, Logan didn't have either of our now starting WRs or either of our now starting TEs. And he had our now 4th string running back all of last year. LT3 was our ENTIRE offense last year.

EDIT: Forgot about Trey Edmunds, so I guess our 3rd and 4th RB

I wouldn't call Trey our 3rd RB, he may have been 3rd string when he was trying to work his way back to health and into the lineup, but he did about as well last year as our running game this year... to compare RBs, considering the injuries this year, I'd have to call that a wash

I haven't seen a running back run like Shai was running prior to going down with the ACL tear since DW4 and RMFW in my opinion. And we never had a guy last year not named Logan Thomas that could pound it up the middle like we have Juice this year. But regardless there are still 4 other skill position players (aside from RB) that are key contributors this year that Logan didn't have, is my point.

I haven't seen a running back run like Shai was running prior to going down with the ACL tear since DW4 and RMFW in my opinion.

So true. We need him back and healthy next year.

Twitter me

Logan hit guys in rhythm all the time. If you're going to use Brewer's best career outing, then you should also use Logan's. Remember Logan vs Miami in 2011? Lemme remind you... 23 of 25, 315 yards, three passing/two rushing touchdowns. His two incompletions?? A drop and a throw away.

Thomas was pretty good

So if you want to compare "Best case scenario Brewer" vs "Best case scenario Logan"... Imma pick Logan.

Brewer is every bit as inconsistent as Logan, without any of the added benefits of Logan's physical prowess. If Logan had the offensive talent that around him that Brewer had before all the injuries started adding up, he'd have put up much better numbers than Brewer.

Brewer was good for four drives against OSU, at the most. The rest of the game he was the same Brewer we've seen the rest of the season.

Not sure if you meant to link the 2013 Miami game. He was great in that game as well, but you were referencing the 2011 game.

"I thought the kid right there you're talking to right there played his nuts off."

If Logan had the RBs we had at the beginning of this year plus a healthy Edmunds and Phillips, Ford and 3 TE's as well as a FG kicker....

This is going to be great for the ACC.

If that's the case, should Motley play? He is closer to LT than Brewer is.


except Logan Thomas did give us the best chance to win. There's a reason why he was drafted to one of the best teams in the NFL right now.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

The reason he is on the Cardinals because the coach is a VT grad and he is willing to take Logan and mold him into a NFL QB. I love Logan, my point is there are other factors in play here.

Why'd they take him in the 4th round then? A coach isnt taking a player in the 4th round as a favor to anybody. If they wanted to give him an NFL shot they could have picked him up as a free agent if nobody else wanted him.

Not saying it is a favor. He sees potential but it will take time. He knew other teams see the same thing, that is why he went in the 4th round.

So it wasn't because Arians is a VT alum...?

"I thought the kid right there you're talking to right there played his nuts off."

Love that rottie pic!

Logan Thomas did give us the best chance to win football games. I got sick of the turnovers and sick of the excuse "well he doesn't have a whole lot around him", but without him, the product we see on offense now is most likely what the past 3 years would have looked like. I don't believe however, that Brewer gives us the best chance to win. I know plenty of people rightfully blame the o line for a lot of our struggles, but I don't believe that is our biggest problem on offense. Being a Redskins fan, I am starting to see some major similarities between RG0-3 and Brewer. They both stand in the pocket too long and they both deliver passes two-three seconds late. It made no sense why 1) we ever got away from the no huddle offense and 2) why we didn't keep Motley in the game. Even Andy Bitter said he thought our offense looked overthought at times. I feel like overthinking is one of the biggest liabilities to Loeffler's system.

"It might be dark outside, but it's LeDay in here." - Jay Bilas

I can live with the BC type losses, the team played hard but came up just short... but man, not being able to score a single point in regulation against what was generally regarded as the worst team in the ACC just doesn't sit well

Not even not scoring but not even getting into scoring position. Our best field position was in OT.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

^-- This. How inept is our team on offense? We could not move the ball to get into scoring position until the rules of the game demanded that we start close enough to score.

Go Hokies!

And even then we only scored 50% of the time

Now is the time for VT to realize what type of program it is. Do you want to pull a Tenessee or Florida State and stay a mediocre program for a decade or do you want to bounce back as soon as possible and become competitive again.

If it's the latter, then Beamer is not the answer. We saw what happened with Bowden,Mack Brown and Paterno, the same will happen to us, the only difference is that we are still not as nationally established as those programs and it will be even harder to climb out of obscurity for us.

This game felt like a pitcher throwing a no-hitter and losing on a fielding error, stolen base, and sac fly to score the only run. The defense did everything they could to give the offense their chances (outside of the couple of dropped INTs). The offense has no spark, and the coaching staff doesn't have the heart to bench the nice guy because he's "really trying hard out there."

You want to know what really pisses me off, this week I just stroked a check to renew my Golden Hokie status. I would have written it for less, if I would have known this was going to happen. My bad, I just love the HOKIE NATION. The sun will rise tomorrow and everything will be alright.

If we don't donate money and buy tickets how does the AD pay for new coaches? Facilities we need to compete?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

"I've never seen a defense have to defend such a short field consistently," said defensive coordinator Foster, "and we had to do it again today."

Yup. Bud is as fed up with this incompetence on offense as we all are. To think that our offense would be worse than Stinespring's. Those Auburn fans were right.

Scott L was the third choice for OC. The first two were not interested. Makes you wonder ???

To your point about Whit and the season tickets. I have been hoping for a reason to keep mine but I just can't find it. I have had season tix for at least 10 years and we are on such a down slope I don't know how I can't justify it, and I don't mean just this season, we are progressively getting worse. There isn't much hope or light at the end of the tunnel which really sucks. I am not saying "fire everybody", but as of right now (regardless of whether we beat BooVA and go to the toilet bowl) unless something serious changes I'm out.

How do you expect the product to get better with no money to spend to get the product better?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Understand your point and not talking about giving up my Hokie Club donation but this season has largely been unwatchable. Literally unwatchable. My mom is sending me text messages about how bad we suck. It's hard to justify paying duckets to watch this BS.

Not giving the program money is the clearest way of expressing dissatisfaction with the on-field product. If donations keep coming in at the same rate, it demonstrates that the fans are satisfied with what they are seeing. I'm not saying not to give the athletic department money, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from withholding their donations until changes are made. That would put tremendous pressure on the athletic department to fix what is wrong.

I certainly can't blame anyone for losing their desire to pay thousands for HC membership & season tickets while having to watch the embarrassment we are witnessing this year. That being said, the only way that our new AD can implement a new hire effectively (whenever that time comes) is by being able to offer a competitive package for a talented coach.

The irony is that after all those years of Weaver, we've finally gotten an AD in Whit who is not only capable of handling that task, but has proven willing to make bold steps when necessary to secure the right coach. And now is when folks want to stop giving, after all those years under Weaver when they kept giving while we stagnated.

It's a valid point that we need the resources. In that regard I still think withholding donations is the appropriate action for dissatisfied fans. Once the changes are made they can pump the money back into the program, but it really is one of the few ways to get the message across (although I think Whit is acutely aware of the fans' feelings, he would likely need dramatic outside pressure to facilitate dramatic changes).

I really do feel sorry for Whit having been thrown into this situation. He stands to alienate some portion of the fan base regardless of the decision he makes. There really is no winning in the situation he's in.

Leaving pissed off messages on hokie websites is one thing, but AD's and the people that count look at money. It's what talks. I just have 2 season tickets, there are undoubtedly boosters with real swing that are having conversations.

Ask Butch Jones...or I'm sure many other coachs, CEOs, and business managers

Maybe use some of that money the coaches stole from the Hokie club over the last 10 years. Anyone really think that O'Cainstinesome offense was worth the money.

Whit's argument cannot be: yeah, I know you've given us all you can in the past, but if you give us more, we'll correct the mistakes we already made with your money.

We put the K in Kwality

Here's why, look at the team where you live. They had some terrible teams. Holtz did ehh with them but until the OBC got there they were bad. Yet they still sold out. Their fans showed a ton of loyalty to the program. If we stop going to games and make the stadium look like the library in CVille then we won't be able to lure a top shelf HC when Frank hangs em up.


I'll just say this about Whit.

Last week during the Duke tailgate we were explicitly told he would not be taking a Q&A. Apparently, he's tired of hearing about how fed up the fans are about this season.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'll also say this to people calling for a boycott of the game Friday. We hear people complain and complain about recruiting, right or wrong, what kind of message does that send the highly touted recruits coming to visit?

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Anyone who promotes boycotting a game should be corrected. Boycotting a game is not the answer. That just looks bad in front of recruits (ahem, Sweat on Friday).

For what its worth I am driving 6 hours with a probable strong turkey hangover to watch us not lose the Commonwealth Cup.

Charleston in future years where I don't have three kids under 5 I might be on that drive also, Myrtle Beach.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I hear ya, I have 6 mo old twins, hence the added pressure on season ticket renewals..

That's a good reason. Kids are expensive, and they don't get any cheaper as hey grow up. Plus when they get older and you have to miss games for soccer, fall ball or swim meets.


I'll upvote you for living in the most beautiful city in the country.

I am the heartbeat of Blacksburg. A fortress built out of stone but made with champions.

Also FWIW, I plan to be at my first game on campus in nearly 20 years on Friday. I will be down in VA visiting my family and ailing Mom, and plan to shorten my visit with them to go to the game. Then, on Saturday, probably hoarse and hopefully with a happy hangover, I will drive 13 hours or so back up to Cape Cod.

Where are the TKP tailgates?

Let's kick some UVA ass!

" the most important Commonwealth Cup matchup in recent memory."

Most important to whom? Obviously they are all important to fans. Are you implying this is an important game for Beamer's future? London's? Just curious....remember this game has decided the Coastal in very recent memory.

2nd time in 3 years we need to beat UVa to go to a bowl

Such a fall from BCS At Large 4 years ago

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

and beating FSU to win the ACC w/ a 5 star QB the year before that.

1. I didn't get to watch until the start of the second quarter. At halftime, apparently I fell asleep and when I woke up we were going into overtime at zeroes. I feel like I got the better end of the deal.

2. Keeping Brewer in is just a ruse. Loeffler is planning on going with Motley and an option attack against LOLUVA but doesn't want to tip his hand at all before the Commonwealth Cup. I bet they're spending all their practice time getting that ready, which is why our current offense put up zero points against Wake Forest.

3. At least I hope so.

4. Miami just scored against LOLUVA, so there's that. If LOLUVA loses to Miami tonight, then they can't go to a bowl, which would be good.

Absolutely we'll be running the GT offense against them, because they can't really stop it.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

But that would be smart, so I doubt we will.

Stick it in! Stick it in!

The heavens know - there was a reason I couldn't find a stream for this game from abroad. As ugly as it sounds, the heavens must know what they are doing. I guess the heavens know as well who will be coaching next year.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. " Rocky B.

Since you couldn't watch it, I'll inform you that it was BAR NONE, the worst football game I can recall. I could take a season-full of JMU beat downs at home rather than watch a second of this steamy shitpile roll around on the 50 yard line all day. Watching this game in its entirety was akin to placing your balls in an old, rusty Salad Shooter you bought at a yard sale where the previous owner told you "I think this salad shooter is on the fritz." Then you take it home, insert balls (because you're a Hokie fan, and you LOVE pain), flip the power on, and have nothing happen except for some buzzing, whirring, and a few sparks here and there for about 60 minutes. Then, just as you thought you'd possibly made it out of your terrible decision to stick your balls in an old Salad Shooter, it kicked on just as Michael Brewer decides it's a good idea to try to be elusive and mobile on 3rd down, in double OT, thereby turning a manageable ~40 yarder into an improbable 52 yarder. And, well, you know the rest... Balls sliced to rivens.

God bless you for not being able to watch it, and God bless the TKP. com crew that'll have to re-watch it to provide us with their expert analysis. However, I say they shouldn't have to. Let's collectively move on from this and never speak of it again. This game is not fit for human consumption and should be stricken from the record books.

Yes, I'm still drunk from last night.

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

Dang, bro, that's painfully descriptive. Your creativity merits some consideration for a future in writing - or as an OC.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. " Rocky B.

Lets not lose sight of all of the talent we have in this program that will be around for a while. But...

Loeffler is not the answer obviously. After today, you can say with a straight face he was worse than Stiney. Even Stiney had some bright spots. That play call on the lateral was about worse than anything Stiney did. So has the clock management, short yardage etc etc.

And for those of you wanting Beamer gone, what do u expect once he leaves? This is not Florida St and he is not Bobby Bowden. He is not too old, yes this has been a bad few years but fixable. I hope you really enjoyed the years from the mid 90's to '11 (I know I did) because once Beamer is gone that is it. VT will not reach the same success again that was reached during that time. (Unless Beamer turns it around now). We have to get very lucky with the next hire, and then do you think with any success, they will stay? If Beamer was not a graduate of VT he would have been gone long ago, that would mean no bowl streak, no streak vs UVA, no BCS Bowls/ACC Champs, and even he was all but gone to UNC!! Everyone wants top recruiting classes, well that didnt happen after playing in national championship game and after winning multiple ACC championships, IT AINT HAPPENIN'! No matter what bigshot coach you think is coming here. If Frank Beamer does not win another ACC title before he leaves, this program is in trouble. Do you really believe post-Frank we will compete with FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT etc to win 4 ACC titles in less than a decade? All you have to do is ask, what was VT before Frank Beamer? For nearly 100 years??

We cannot compete with those teams now WITH Beamer in full control of the team. VT would be no worse if Beamer is replaced. It could not be.

It very easily could be. Hiring a new coach no matter how much its needed in no way guarantees the next guy in is any better. SO dont just assume the next coach at VT leads us to the playoffs, I expect 2-4 bad to mediocre years after a head coaching change.

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I didn't say the next coach leads us to the playoffs, I only said it wouldn't be any worse than what we are currently seeing, which really really really stinks.

We are going backwards with Beamer. If we hire someone new and go backwards, then what's the difference?

Other than maybe getting a hungry coach with some insight on how college football is played offensively these days.

Ask Mich fans, Texas fans that question. I just hope people know what happens when a coach gets fired and a new one comes in.

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Do you really think those fans would be any happier with their old coaches? Just because it might not work out perfectly doesn't mean we need to stick with something that clearly is not working out anyways.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

See thats the thing just because someone (me in this case) doesnt think a coaching change will suddenly make things better does not mean I dont think there should be some kind of plan for change. But I'm realistic enough to know we will not just turn the ship around by hiring someone new, thats what I feel many people think and they are wrong very wrong, how many years does the new hire get to turn things around? Will people support by buyig tickets if his first year is a losing record with no bowl game?

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I just feel like the deeper we get into this rut we're in, the less patience people will have when the changes are finally made. Personally I don't expect us to be world beaters after an overhaul. For instance, the only thing I take away from our basketball game this evening is that those kids probably learned something tonight, and sometime down the line we'll be in a better spot to win that game. Won't keep me from buying tickets next year, personally.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I think Hokie fans are smart enough to know that a new coach will more than likely have serious growing pains. (Primarily because the current HC is creating an unenviable position to inherit)

I guess the question becomes...should we just keep watching our play on the field take a nose dive along with recruiting potential, which is now a trend under Beamer, just because we are afraid that the next guy might not be able to do any better?

Seems like a terrible reason to ignore reality.

When that happens a rebuilding process starts. No one in their right mind would be right to think a new coach will come in and everything will be fixed. However it will bring a fresh new look on the program and we will hopefully be able to see improvement every week instead of the hot garbage we have seen for 11 weeks this year.

yeah blame lefty., blame OL, blame searels, blame Bud but when someone blames Beamer its ohh no he is just the HC he doesn't call plays ect ect.. F that take that excuse out back, he is a f'ing HC and has 100% control of the program and should be able to figure out what we need to do to at least put a Varsity level team on the field

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

Lets ask a few teams

wAKE Forest
Boston College
Ohio State
NC State
Texas Tech
Utah State
Mississippi State

What are we asking these teams?

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How much are they liking the change a new coach brought them in the last 2 years

Every single one of those teams is in a better spot right now than we are. Each one.

When you lose to a team like Wake as the worst team in a division you have no bragging rights. We are the embarrassment of the ACC right now.

We deserve better than this

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Well...2 of them beat us (BC did twice) I'd say they are happier than us.

We put the K in Kwality

Following a 13-1 season, Mack Brown was fired after a four year skid of 5-7, 8-5, 9-4, and 8-5. They were very obviously regressing. Good teams don't have to rebuild four years in a row.

I firmly believe that Texas will be competing for Big XII titles within the next 2-3 years, possibly even as soon as next season, and it is all because of the changes in culture that Charlie Strong has brought about there. In a worst case scenario Texas finishes 6-7 (which will likely end up being better than our record at the end of the season). Hell, Strong's first two season at Louisville were 7-6. The following two were 11-2 and 12-1.

Would I take what Michigan has? Hell no, but I would love to have what Texas does.

But that is TEXAS, who wouldnt love to have what Texas has? Even if Strong isnt the guy, they will eventually get it right and be back in the top 5 even if if takes 10 years. This is what will happen at Michigan. We dont have that same luxury, they are all but guaranteed that. They will get top 10-15 recruiting classes no matter who is coaching them. All Im saying is, if Beamer is done, who else is going to make top 5 teams with top 30 recruiting classes?

It's been a long time since we finished in the Top Five. What has Frank does in the last three seasons that makes you think we'll ever get close to finishing in the Top Five under him again, no matter how long he stays as head coach?

Change has to come eventually, no matter how fearful of it some are...

That's exactly what the fans in Knoxville were saying when they fired Fulmer. Exactly. Look, I'm not defending Beamer in any way but it's my opinion that we as fans need to be mentally prepared for a few down years even after Beamer is gone. Hiring a new coach isn't going to magically fix what's glaringly wrong with this team. It might eventually but it's going to take a few years. Virginia Tech has a terrible offense. That all starts with the offensive line. Beamer and Newsome allowed it to get this bad yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's the current situation and whoever the new coach is has to fix that FIRST. Which means recruiting, and then developing the talent you bring in. That takes time. 2 or 3 years minimum.

So all you on here that are hoping for instant gratification and a return to the ACCCG next year or even the year after Frank Beamer is gone, probably need to pay closer attention to what's happened the past 6 or 7 years at Tennessee. And y'all can say what you want but Virginia Tech isn't on the same level as Tennessee as far as being a big time brand. You really don't even need to look as far as Knoxville. Look at our basketball program. Big time basketball hire, bringing in good recruits, trending up, but we still lost to Appi State at home yesterday. So call for Frank Beamer's job, after what we saw yesterday and will likely see more of Friday night, I'm not saying your wrong. Hell, Frank is almost daring Babcock to fire him at this point it seems like. Just don't expect to be instantly happy with the results. As a matter of fact, we should probably be prepared to sit at home in late December and early January for a few years.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

Jimbo Fischer was the coach in waiting under Bobby B. FSU went trough some very bad years with Bobby at the helm. The way Bobby was let go is what VT should be trying to avoid. FB has made this program. And for that we are very fortunate and grateful. But, FB has already started talking about how good we will be next year. If they are not good next year and he starts talking about 2016, what do you do? Are you saying Bud doesn't deserve a shot at the HC job?

No, I actually agree with your post, but I dont think changes at the HC need to be made this year.

I really want to be excited about the talent and possibilities of the future. However, the regression this team has shown has me very skeptical whether or not the coaching can develop them. glimpses of any greatness are very scarce

Stick it in! Stick it in!

I have been a Hokie fan for over 50 years and have not been as upset over a loss as much as this for as long as I can remember. I have been a strong supporter of Beamer through the last few down years. However I now think it is time for Frank to retire. He kept Stiney and Newsome for to long and hired the failed current OC. If Foster was not leading the defense I dread to think how bad this year could have been.

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but we were getting into field goal range on the first drive by running the ball. Then, we pass the ball on 1st and 10 - incomplete, second down - another incomplete pass, third down - another incompletion.

I think the defining feature of Loeffler's offense is to stop doing whichever play is working and never go back to it. I knew that the hiring of Loeffler would drive our offense even further into the ground. This is literally more pathetic than the offense was against Rutgers, and we managed to win that game, because that offense was able to score more than 3 fucking points. If Loeffler is such a QB guru, then why can't he coach QBs to make smart decisions and correct reads at the line of scrimmage? If Beamer is getting fired, it will ultimately be because of the complete lack of judgment of hiring of Loeffler.

I agree with you. I equate the hiring of SL with that of James Johnson. He wasn't our 1st choice or 2nd choice but it is a change and everybody says we need a change.

The offense read the previous article on the TKP and determined the best way to avoid a trap game was to not show up.

Loeffler's legacy is in place. The only ACC game in history to end 0-0. What a debacle. What an embarrassment Lefty, you need to look in the mirror.

The only thing the coaching staff can't control is injuries (and even that can be somewhat debated). Every other short coming is the result of the coaching. Frank built the program, but he is also overseeing it as it goes to shit. He better really start taking responsibility and making corrections. If he doesn't have the drive to do that, it's time to go.

Stick it in! Stick it in!

Imagine the wheels turning in Whit's head right now. What type of sell could he make if he had to right now?

"Eat, Drink and Be Merry, for Tomorrow We Die!" "Geaux Hokies is pronounced GUUH-X" - Andrew Jackson, 1815

Its not going to be an easy sell but neither was BBALL and we all saw what happened there. We will get a coach that will want to embrace VT for what VT is and help make it a top school again.

IMO next coach won't be a big name, I'll guess a lower P5 team.. Western Michigan type coach would be my hope, that dude was pumped and actually showed a pulse on the sideline.

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

Rich Rodriguezis at Arizona
Malazan went to Ark St for a year
Mark Stoopswent to Kentucky

Bud won't be the only one applying for the job

Pretty easy, P5 school that lives on Football on the east coast and close to the southeast for recruiting. also has a major stadium, a new indoor practice facilities and a team the can't get worse.

O, and Starting salary 2.5 million+

No way do I see the next HC making 2.5 base salary in his first year.

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Nope. People seem to be overlooking a Frank Beamer buy out which isn't going to be easy on the Ath Dept. New coach ain't getting big money to start. Whit can want all the big time hires in the country but VT doesn't have Texas money. It's going to have to be a budget hire.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

There is no buyout. If Frank is released tomorrow, he would get no buyout. What Frank has is an 8 yr, $250K annually, position as an assistant to the AD for fundraising & promotion of VT athletics waiting for him when he stops coaching. No buyout.

UVA pays London $3.2M Gonna have to bring the money to the table

His base is 2.1 millions he started out at 1.7 million base.

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We're paying $2M per year for a basketball coach for a program that doesn't make money.

Our football coaching pay scale will be higher than that, and will likely be a lot higher.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

You honestly think our next new first year coach in base salary is going to make a lot more than 2 million? Where is that money going to come from? With performance bonuses a coach at that level is looking at 3-4 million. That's top teams in country range.

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Frank is 35th in the nation at $2.66M. $2M gets you 51st in the nation. Clemson pays Dabo about $3.2M. WVU pays Holgerson nearly $3.1M. Wouldn't you think we were comparable with those two schools in terms of fan base, geography, long term performance, etc?

That's not a call to hire a guy for $3M a year. It's just adding perspective to the money in NCAA football for coaches right now. GaTech pays Johnson $2.6M annually. That's not an outrageous amount. Another example - Chad Morris, offensive coordinator at Clemson, makes $1.3M annually. To hire him away, you'd have to pay at LEAST $2M a year, possibly more.

Quality coaches do not come inexpensively. Yes, you can roll the dice on a mid-major guy and succeed. But that's more risky than hiring someone already at the higher level. We could hire Bud for $1.5M or so, but that is because he's been underpaid for a long time as it is. Bringing someone in from outside means more money. Bringing in bigger reputations means even more money.

Coaching salaries escalate quickly.

I could see a 2 million base, but 2.5 and up unless it's a huge hire for first year salary will not happen. Look at what these coaches who are making more than that at non Texas, Bama schools made. London 1.7 million first year. Davi made about 1.9 first year as HC and that was after working at Clemson for what 5 years?

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I could be wrong but didn't Frank take less money so he could pay his assistants (namely Bud) more money? Doubt the next coach would be willing to do that.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

There is no such thing as a free meal........ soo Beamer might have saved us $$ but.. I'm sure we're losing $$ by frank having his team out coached for the last few weeks as well.

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

I think you missed the point of my question, bud. I was asking if he purposely took less money so his assistants could get paid more. In other words, the next head coach probably isn't going to to that therefore the Athletic Dept is going to have to fork over a substantial amount of money over what they are currently paying if they want to hire someone of quality. Didn't ask that to try to defend Frank or to rain on an apparent Frank Beamer hate fest. Relax.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

Maybe I should have provided facts instead of what I originally posted I agree. SOO I can start here:

35th ranked Bud Foster School Pay $504,785 Other Pay $31,000 Total Pay $535,785 Bonus $82,500

Some teams ahead of us are Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Arkansas, Kentucky, Cal.. So I'm not sure Beamer saved $ to pay Bud more because Bud consistently provides a top 5 defense but his pay definitely doesn't show it. However he does have that huge 800,000 annuity that is suppose to happen at the end of this year.

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

When Frank decided to bolt for UNC, he said it was because he wanted more money for his assistants. Supposedly at that time he took less than he could have gotten, even though he got a pay increase. In subsequent negotiations since 2001, he has not taken less, and his pay increases at a higher rate than that of his assistants. Bud Foster did get an annuity five years ago, but Frank did not forfeit any potential income in order for that to occur. The last contract negotiations with Weaver, Frank could have gotten more in my estimation. Instead he got the eight year, $250K annually, 'job' as assistant to the AD whenever he retires from coaching added to his contract. In the long term, that was much smarter than the short term money.

Thank you for the insight. I thought I read something like that somewhere just wasn't sure on all the facts. Interesting times in Blacksburg at any rate.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

Just to leave something positive about the game, Bud's defense played perhaps their best game of the entire season. Unfortunately the JV offense for Christiansburg HS showed up and couldn't do ANYTHING... Ok this is getting really hard to stay positive, but at least Beamer didn't say he was proud of the team. He seems to be taking this as hard as us.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

I think he see's the shit on the wall and knows whats coming so he is just trying to go peacefully

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

This loss is not on Frank's shoulders. At least not the brunt of it. This loss is 50% Loeffler, 25% O-line, and 25% Brewer. Loeffler is going IF anyone leaves after this season.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Who hired Loeffler? Who oversaw the crumbling of recruting everywhere, especially on OL? Who hired Newsome and then kept him employed for 7 years?

Is argue that the brunt of the blame for all this mess is right on Frank.

Loeffler isn't going anywhere... The only way he goes is if frank goes and a new HC comes in and doesn't want him. If anything the loss is on the whole team, we didn't come out ready to play our JV O-line played like they normally do and Bud's D played like a top 5 D.

the loss is on Beamer 100%.. he is the f'ing head coach, it starts and ends with him. He hired lefty, he kept stiney on the staff and put him in the box.. between lefty and Beamer/stiney they should be able to figure out what is going on/make adjustments/talk with the coaching staff. The fact that LITTLE BEAMER had to step in during the Western Michigan game shows how dysfunctional the whole coaching staff is.

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

I think your last sentence would be more accurate if it read - 'The fact that Little Beamer chose(emphasis) to step in during the Western Michigan game shows how dysfunctional the whole coaching staff is'...

^^^^WHAT HE SAID^^^^

BOOMMM!!!!!!!! great help my friend!

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

You both bring up good points and right after I posted I saw the pigeon hole that Beamer hired Loeffler etc., which you two pointed out and killed the whole argument... Have a leg!

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Is that really a check down play. Seems its a timing play , but the screens are terribly designed and executed.

Why are we focusing on that one play? Sure, it was bad, he could/should have changed it. But the INT (Jesus that was horrifying), the sacks, the...

Screw was all terrible.

We put the K in Kwality


The one constant in Virginia Tech's success over the last 20 years is Bud Foster. There have been other variables that would swing games one way or the other (ex. Michael Vick, Tyrod Taylor, lack of RB 2012, offensive line woes, etc..) But we always knew our defense would be solid enough to win ANY game we played, even when the talent was lacking. Many years we had a championship caliber defense but never could quite put it all together on the other sides of the ball. With whatever happens after the season, the one thing we need is for Bud Foster to stay.

That's what I'm afraid of now. I know that Bud is incredibly loyal to Beamer, but it's evident he is extremely frustrated. What if he decides to pursue other options?

Also, if beamer is forced to leave, will Bud's loyalty to him mean he will leave too? It's a scary thought. If Bud goes then I think we're done being relevant for a while.

Fire Frank Beamer. Hire Chad Morris.

I was there , Beautiful day For Football , We just didn't bring a OC or Game plan to win. The Usual...

Jack R.

I really want to see if Bud's defensive genius would translate to managing the total team to better success. Can the coaches honestly say we are currently putting the kids in the best position to succeed. I get the execution piece but I don't feel we are truly playing to our current strengths. Imo

I would argue we ARE playing to our strengths - the defense. I was convinced yesterday that I was going to have to ask the question "when was the last time our defense outscored our offense and the opposing offense, and won?"

If you can't score a single score against Wake in 60 mins of play then you don't deserve to go to a bowl game.

I just got an account so I'm still figuring out this whole thing, but I took away a couple things from this game.

Frank Beamer is much, much different than what he was when VT was a consistent fixture in the national rankings. I don't know if the losing has had an effect on him, or the losing is a direct result of him being much more relaxed. I miss the intensity he used to show towards players (although I do not condone him slapping Wilford on the head back in 2003). He claims he still wants to win a NC, but I see no moves to try and back up that statement. Loeffler was not a very good hire, Shane was out of pure nepotism (as a running backs coach; I believe he is a pretty good recruiter), and the jury is still out on Searels.

Another thing I took away from this game is, how long is Bud willing to stick around? VT has had some pretty historically had offenses that have been bailed out by great defenses. That has pretty much been the norm since joining the ACC. These last 3 years, though, VT has gone 7-6, 8-5, and is currently 5-6. The 7-6 team (2012) had a pretty not-so-good defense for the first half of the season, but was able to turn it around at the end. The 8-5 team (2013) had an awesome defense that checked out at the end of the season, especially against UCLA. I don't really know what that was about; perhaps it was a result of the incompetence of the offense. And then this year, with the exception of a couple games, they have been pretty good. There is a saying that goes along the lines of "if a team gives up 0 points, they will always win." Well, so much for that. An offense should be able to score AT LEAST 3 points against a 2-8 team. There are no words to describe that. If I were Bud, I would be steaming hot, and I believe he was, judging by his postgame comments. I've had it in the back of my mind for awhile that maybe one day Bud will get fed up and walk away. Well, yesterday put it in the front of my mind. There is no excuse for your defense shutting out Wake Forest and your offense not delivering.

All of this leads up to Scot Loeffler. I try not to let the bad outweigh the good, good, for example, being Miami 2013, Ohio State this season, and any other decent offensive performances he may have under his belt. Yesterday's performance, though, well, it was the worst offensive performance I have ever witnessed as a Hokie fan. Stinespring never even pulled something like that. It should almost be punishable by the NCAA. 0 points against Wake Forest? Pathetic.

In addition to that, WHY TAKE MOTLEY OUT OF THE GAME FOR CRYING OUT LOUD? Your offense has scored 0 points in almost 3 and a half quarters, but you're miraculously tied, and you finally get something going with the backup QB. For the love of common sense, leave him in the game. I don't know if he actually believed Brewer could deliver or if he was just trying too hard to stick to the gameplan (8-12 plays for Motley). The gameplan clearly was not working. And I am going to say this in 100% honesty: I wanted Motley to be the starter ever since he won the job over Leal in the spring. He's big, can apparently throw the ball, and is a good runner. I'll take the small bumps along the way that comes with a young QB. I was convinced Brewer was the real deal after Ohio State, but I gradually became more and more down on him as the season went along. I also wondered why Leal was the backup after losing his job in the spring, but Motley's limited reps answered that for me.

Anyway, sorry if that was very rant-like. I'm new to the site. Bottom line, I believe Frank needs to move on, Loeffler needs to be fired, Motley should start against UVA, and I am extremely worried about Bud.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

He claims he still wants to win a NC, but I see no moves to try and back up that

Money wise in his contract he doesn't want it either
Beamer's bonus for winning a NC - $200,000
Butch Jones @ UT - $900,000
Dabo @ Clemson - $1.2M - Includes perfect season and ACC championship win
FSU Fisher - 1.1M for the 2014 season win
UNC Coach 400,000

Yeah there seems to be no incentive from either side. Personally, I would like to see Foster promoted to HC. The VT Athletic Department used to run itself with the football team carrying the load. Now, that the team is not performing, this puts Babcock in a very difficult position. People realize that they do not have to attend games. Watching it on tv is much more attractive. This is a major loss in revenue, and season ticket sales continue to decline. There's seemingly no way Babcock can go out and hire a big name coach if they're demanding a big name coach's salary. Buzz Williams was a very expensive hire, Jim Weaver is still on the payroll, and there is a buyout on Beamer's contract. Foster is already one of the highest paid coordinators in the country. Beamer "retires" (I have a feeling Beamer will formally retire but still get the buyout on his contract) and you have the money from his contract, minus the buyout of course, and you pay Bud that much. I understand he has no prior head coaching experience, but look at his track record as a defensive coordinator. He started out at Murray State with no prior experience, and coordinated a very solid defense there. Then he went to Tech, learned on the fly as a co-defensive coordinator, and when it was his turn to be in full control, he didn't, and still does not, disappoint. Plus, if I were to have to choose a coach without any prior head coaching experience to coach my football team, it would have to be one brought up under the direction of Frank Beamer. Bud will bring back much needed energy to the program, and I support him 100% until proven wrong.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

There is no buyout in Beamer's contract. When he retires, he will assume a position as assistant to the AD and be responsible for fundraising & general promotion of Hokie athletics. That is for a term of 8 years at $250K annually. If you want to consider that the buyout, that's fine, but it is an actual job. It might not be a 40-hour a week job, but it is a job, technically.

Do you think he will last till 2019 like the contract says? He honestly looks like he's not having fun anymore.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Oh, absolutely not. I think there is no chance he lasts beyond the 2016 season, period. Even if he miraculously produced another ten win season, he leaves after 2016. And I have zero confidence that he will produce another ten win season. That being said, I also think there is no chance that he retires after this season. Keep in mind, when we discuss Frank retiring, that is code for leaving when Whit tells him to leave.

What I think happens is the following - Whit sits with Frank and gives him the hard truth - Frank's time is over. Frank gets one more season to exit with grace and everything is kept between Frank & Whit. Frank goes out and does what he does in 2015 with the knowledge that it is his last year. Then, in November of 2015, prior to the UVa game, it is announced Frank will step down to 'spend more time with my family & the grandkids'.

What will happen prior to Whit giving Frank the hard truth is that Loeffler will leave the program. I think there is an obvious divide between Frank's vision for the offense & Loeffler's vision for the offense. I think Loeffler will be the scapegoat for this season, giving Frank a more optimistic path to the 2015 season. I think Loeffler is already looking elsewhere, and that Frank is already willing to part with him. All presumptive, of course, but the talking points for the media give suspicion. Frank will hire someone who knows the time in Blacksburg will be extremely short, and that is how it will end.

I think there is an obvious divide between Frank's vision for the offense & Loeffler's vision for the offense.

I completely agree, and I don't think Loeffler's vision is the issue.

What we're seeing out of the offense right now is the same pure ineptitude we saw building during the Stinespring years. The only difference between then and now is that we had a talented mobile QB that could bail us out when everything else blew up. We don't have that now, and even worse, our QB is a weakness instead of a strength. We have an OL that can't block, playcalling that is baffling at best, a QB with zero pocket awareness, all the while trying to deliberately slow games down to churn clock. In other words, its the same convoluted mess we had in the previous regime, just amplified because of the differences in personnel. And I have a very, very hard time believing that we fired one coaching staff only to hire the one staff out there capable of worsening the situation.

At best, Beamer is a terrible talent evaluator, at worst, the offense is of his own design. Not sure which one is preferable, but either way, I have zero hope that a coaching change with Beamer still in charge will fix anything.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

the only thing that I have an issue with in this is that Beamer gets 1 more year to exit? WHAT makes you feel like he gets to do that? I know I can't deal with another 5 win season, and next years schedule is just as brutal as this years.

If you want to blame Loeffler then what are we going to do for 1 year, hire an OC just for Beamer to leave the next year and then a new HC come and bring his own staff? No O-coordinator would take the job at VT because it would be a 1 year rental/lease and then you're out of a job.

IDK what will happen but if Beamer/Whit decide this is the year they should announce it Thursday get the fan base to rally behind this team and Beamer for 1 more time. We absolutely obliterate UVA and Beamer gets carried off the field! He gets a statue outside lane and everyone can forget the actual performance on the field and be happy for what Beamer has done for VT in the last 20+ years.

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

I don't think the fault lies solely with Loeffler. I think the primary fault lies with Frank Beamer. As I discussed elsewhere, and got blasted for, Frank's offensive mindset has not evolved with the rest of college football. The only reason Frank shifted Stinespring out of the OC position was that he was forced to do so, and he found Loeffler, who evidently told Frank he was willing to accommodate Frank's vision on offense.

There is no possible way that we just coincidentally hired two OC's who managed to field such inept offenses while Frank had no influence over the direction of those offenses. That is not possible. What we have seen more of from Loeffler than from Stinespring is the quick tempo offense, and it usually works for us, whether we're passing or running the ball. But then we desert it, even after success. I just think that has to be Frank dialing Loeffler back down to the clock killing mindset that Frank has made well known he prefers.

Loeffler will be the scapegoat, that is certain. All the talking points are already out there in place for that. The problem lies with Frank, though, and his refusal to evolve. I think there is no way Loeffler comes back next year. If that means Frank hires some inept OC, or promotes Moorehead or (gasp!) Shane to the title with the inherent understanding they bend to his mindset on offense, that is what he will do. In his mind, he probably figures he can cash in those chips while he holds them, because even he sees the light at he end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

As for the one more season? That will be the price that we pay for not holding Frank more accountable earlier. Even the first part of this season, there was still a sizable contingent of people on here demanding that Frank Beamer be allowed to coach as long as he wanted, no matter how long the time frame. So here we are...

Boom!!! yes yes yes love this post !!! LEG!

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

Sizeable doesn't truly say how big it was...and then with the Win at OSU

If Frank was to promote Shane and he failed at the job (and I don't think he has the experience to do it) it would kill his son's chosen career. I can't see him doing it.

Lou & Skip Holtz say hello. Lou did that at SoCarolina, and it imploded. Then Skip went to ECU, with a heavy endorsement from Lou. Now Skip is at LaTech, I believe. He suffered for a couple of years, then moved on because his daddy called in favors for him to get a job or two. Think Frank would do that for Shane? Me too...

Jay Paterno would say hello but no one knows what he does for a living anymore.

I hear that he and Jeff Bowden run a little a geneology business in Florida named "Keep it in the Family".

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Doesnt the O'Cain situation seem similar...He comes in and we have a great offensive year. Next year offense sputters and he is out. I say if CFB stays Loeffler stays let the next HC bring in his own staff.

A new hope

This is great except for one year of coaching to many. If Frank wanted a victory lap he should of said that after the 2010 season. the 25th season was setup for it.

But he had to know the state of the program and how it compared to everyone else. He had to know it was time for major program changes in philosophy not just front facing the staffing.

Front facing - pulling all your merchandise to the front of the self so your store looks organized and full of products to sell, hiding the emptiness and disaster in the back

Eh the 25th season was just bad luck. Clemson was one of the best teams in the country but only chose to show it against a few teams, and VT happened to be one of them. There is no way WVU was 70-33 better than them. And the Sugar Bowl, well, we all know about that one. That could have been the first 12-win season in VT history if it weren't for that atrocious overruling of Danny Coale's catch. That game definitely left a sour taste in Beamer's mouth. I'm about 75% sure if VT had won that game, Beamer would have retired. 2012 was really the season he looked like he had finally lost all of his intensity. A 12-win season, a Sugar Bowl win, and a 38-0 trashing of UVA would have been a great way for his career to end in his 25th season.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Of course there was the horrendous move by Frank to run the fake rugby punt with his backup punter which led to us going into overtime in the first place. If Frank had not lost his mind and done that, then it's unlikely there would have been an overtime. That's what is conveniently 'forgotten' from that game.

Very true. That play still haunts me to this day. That's just another instance where Bud was probably fuming.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.