Preseason Practice: Second (Final) Public Scrimmage

The best way to describe today's scrimmage was uneven. Offense dominated early (even with the second team offense scoring twice on the first team defense), then the defense dominated late.

Offense ran much more out of the I, two tight end one back, and the regular shotgun, but featured several new wrinkles out of each formation. It seams as if the offense is much more focused on running on the interior, with a variety of interior power plays and traps. There were only 3-4 plays of no huddle and pistol, and we saw two veer plays run (as described in yesterday's French on the Bench).

Logan Thomas didn't have an impressive day. He had several nice throws early, but as the scrimmage went on, he seemed to be staring down receivers and not going through his reads. After going 3-and-out on the last goal line series (and having nobody open) Logan threw his helmet on the sidelines.

Corey Fuller continues to be his favorite target, but Fuller was a non factor against the number one D. Marcus Davis had one catch, and got beat by Exum on a jump/fade on the goal line. Dyrell Roberts dropped a punt. Demitri Knowles and Kevin Asante both had several catches with the 1's against the 2's, but Asante missed a block on a screen, getting Roberts killed.

Ryan Malleck was targeted several times and caught a beautiful over the shoulder TD on a flag route from Thomas. However, Eric Martin got much more work with the ones as the scrimmage went on, while Malleck played on punt team. Dunn is out of this race, only getting time with the 2's. He made a nice catch, but was destroyed by Corey Marshall blocking twice in space on sweeps. With so much emphasis on the TE being a mobile blocker, Dunn is a liability they can't afford.

JC Coleman was used as both a back, and as a flanker and had several nice runs on jet sweeps. He also looks instinctive and sharp between the tackles, even if he isn't going to move the pile. He also has a dynamic element. On a 3rd-and-goal power run to the right, Coleman cut back sharply against the grain. Antone Exum was filling the backside contain gap, and Coleman left him grabbing air. It was nasty.

Holmes patience almost looked like indecisiveness, but he runs hard, and broke several tackles on a nice touchdown run early. Still, he doesn't look dynamic to me. Martin Scales was used mostly in goal line with the ones, and frankly was disappointing. He is powerful, but like Wilson, he ran play side and ignored a huge hole one gap inside repeatedly.

Trey Edmunds was used heavily with the 3's and the 2's, and had an up-and-down day. He had several electric runs, making some defenders miss, while steamrolling others. He also had three outstanding blitz pick ups, and recovered a fumbled snap to get a 15 yard run. However, on several plays he was blown up when he got no blocking and fumbled trying to get something out of nothing. Two fumbles are a killer. Nevertheless, he still looks like the guy who can be a true workhorse, with Coleman as a change up.

Offensive line did not play as well as Saturday. Brent Benedict struggled against the #1 D, playing too high and getting pushed into the backfield several times. Miller also had a bad bust on a mike dog blitz, where both he and Benedict blocked nobody and Logan was sacked. Benedict did have a wonderful kick out block on a goal line TD run for Holmes. Painter and David Wang looked outstanding, while Becton had one bust in pass pro but otherwise was solid.

The line mixed both man and zone blocking. If the tight end was flexed and there wasn't a 2nd tight end, we saw some zone blocking, but almost all the I and ace plays featured guys blocking down and kicking out or reach blocking play side.

Michael Via is stiff in pass pro, but when he was in, the #2 O scored 2 TD's vs the #1 D on power running (better than the 1's did running the power). With Benedict struggling, I'd say Via starts getting some snaps at guard. Caleb Farris had a ROUGH day with numerous poor snaps.

I focused mostly on the safeties as the number one D took on the number two O. I thought Jarrett and Bonner were both solid. Against 3-wide sets, the strong side safety came down and played man on the slot receiver, with JGW mostly staying inside and blitzing from linebacker frequently. Jarrett busted coverage once (resulting in a magnificent tirade from Torrian Gray and Eric Martin wide open deep) but Logan made a poor read and threw to a covered Joey Phillips.

Antone Exum and Kyle Fuller both struggled early. Fuller jumped offsides on a FG (it looked like a vet taking a shortcut) and the second team offense scored several plays later. Fuller also took a bad pass interference penalty on the goal line grabbing Davis. Exum whiffed on Coleman, had a thunderous hit on Scales but didn't wrap his arms, giving Scales 4 extra yards, and he was beaten on a deep inside curl by Corey Fuller. But Exum became much more aggressive as the scrimmage wore on, with tremendous coverage and a nice break up on a goal line fade route to Marcus Davis. Exum looked beaten, but got his head turned at the last possible second and ripped the ball away from Davis. Fuller was solid and wasn't beaten.

All in all, the first team secondary played a ton of man coverage with one deep safety. The safeties were solid in run support. I saw nothing that makes me think they will be bad. I am still worried about their coverage against a burner like Watkins, as they were not tested today deep.

JR Collins was the most impressive player on the field today. He played a nasty, nasty game. Against the first team offense, he was beating kick out blocks on traps (similar to the style of kick out blocks used by Clemson) and he had two sacks and was close to the ball often. The interior tackles jammed everything up (all the runs against the #1 D bounced wide), and Luther Maddy really gave Benedict a tough time on goal line. I didn't see much pass rush from anyone else (although on a zone blitz, Tyrel Wilson looked better than our #3 corners covering a flat route). Among the #2's, I think Kris Harley has surpassed Zach McCray as the next man up behind Maddy and the Hopkins brothers. Harley roughed up Farris and Gibson repeatedly.

Linebacker worries me. I wasn't focused on them, but Tyler and Taylor didn't seem to be in on many tackles against the run (although both had sacks blitzing). Runs were bouncing outside. JGW lined up on the slot in 4 wide, and when the Hokies used two deep safeties, but the offense seemed to run every time he was on the slot. He had 2 sacks blitzing, but he was roughed up a bit when the second team offense scored their first touchdown.

Ronnie Van Dyke again was impressive. He is bigger, stronger, and faster than JGW. He was again the leading tackler for the number two's and was excellent in coverage except for one bust, where Corey Fuller beat him handily to the post but Leal threw to the corner. They put Van Dyke in coverage far more often than JGW. He also is terrific in run support, but doesn't have quite as quick timing the snap on the blitz. Tweedy was with the 3's and was a non-factor.

By the end of the scrimmage, the defense definitely marked their territory and shut down the offense. They were much more vocal and communicative after having trouble with alignment early. The offense looked great early, with the first group scoring 4 TD's and a FG against the two's, but the old bugaboos of wide receivers not getting open and poor blitz pickups rose their ugly heads when the starters battled. More details coming in the comments as I have time to digest what I saw.

Comments

Knowing that

the coaches planned to make some two-deep decisions, a good bit of plays were likely geared to create separation, and it sounds like they may have accomplished that. Looking forward to extended details and comments.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

From what I've read

It seems like we have a punter in Hughes, which is probably the best news out of the 2nd scrimmage. Getting a punt downed on the 1-yd line is awesome.

Marcus needs to win every jump-ball fade and box-out slant. At 6'4" and 230lbs, that should be bread and butter inside the 10. Marcus did a really good job on the box-out slant for a 2-pt conversion in the Sugar Bowl, so getting on the same page with Logan on the jump-ball fade would make him unstoppable. This is the cure to goal-line struggles, especially since they'll probably clog up the middle with LT3 threatening to truck.

I like that Coleman is being used in the Flanker. I wished they used DW in that spot more last year. Question, though, for anyone at the scrimmage. Was Holmes in the backfield? Did Coleman also lineup in the slot? And, did they run any pass plays out of this formation?

I like having a lefty punter

I saw Dyrell tweeted that he muffed that punt because of the weird spin of the ball. I bet that would be a huge weapon during the year because no team is going to have a lefty punter to give their guys practice for it.

Didn't we

have a lefty punter a few years back? Don't remember who it was. Seems like I remember several TV talking heads mentioning it at the time.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

VINNIE BURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was awesome.

Also Nic Schmitt

He was a lefty and a Super Iron Hokie.

in regards to the rookies

Edmunds is exciting to watch and looks to have an emmense amount of raw talent. Don't think he'll contribute much this year but he will be a great player at Tech.

Stanford and Caleb will be exciting to watch lined up on opposite sides of the field next year but again....next year. I think Stanford has a slight chance of getting some situational playing time this year but would prefer to redshirt him and insert another qualified guy into those situations. I made it a point to watch Caleb every play he was on the field for and I have to say I was a really disappointed with his effort. It looked to me like he was running max 50% every play. I sensed a lot of frustration which isn't surprising for a guy who was a star in high school and has to learn a whole different position. Didn't help that Fuller was guarding him most of the day yesterday. As mentioned, I think he will be a great one but I hope his frustration doesn't de-rail him during the process.

As a side note: Malleck dislocated one or more fingers on his left hand yesterday during punt coverage. It must have been pretty gruesome because it caused all the equipment managers to crowd around him taking pictures with their phones like it was a teenage girl flashing a group of high school freshman. Also got a good "eeewwwooohhhh" out of Logan after he took a glance.

And thus my rookie post it complete..Adieu

suckbrickkid

That's disappointing about Caleb. The ironic thing is he probably would have had a better chance to play on defense this year. To use a phrase from Beamer Co., his mind might be tying up his feet. It's hard to learn a brand new position in 3 weeks (QB -> WR). I bet we see a much improved player next spring. Along the same lines, that's what really impressed me about Stanford last Saturday. He looked like a third year player. He moved through practice like he'd done a thousand times. I think the top three WRs are Roberts, Davis, Fuller, and when Coles comes back he'll fit in at the top. Asante looked great to me on Saturday, but my guess is the younger guys will all have ups and downs during the season and Stanford plays, which I'm not opposed to.

Welcome to the site!

Beat Alabama.

Great read French

Although "Martin Scales was used mostly in goal line with the ones, and frankly was disappointing" isn't exactly what you want to hear about your team's leading Heisman candidate. TIC

great picture!

Love it - LT3 and Tyrod doin the jump bump (don't know official name) after the LT3 miami touchdown!

On Aug 31, the Hokies will beat the back to back national champs

sounds like

JC really turned a corner with his effectiveness in fall camp ... that's great to hear. the holmes/coleman tandem will have a great season i think. with corey fuller and (supposedly) asante having a good fall, i imagine that stanford will be redshirted but may travel.

Regarding Edmunds: when are the coaches going to make a decision on where he will play or does anyone REALLY think that they want him to be a two-way player? It seems that running back is much more of a natural position (less film study, more knowing the plays and reads and just doing it) so maybe he could ...

Edmunds

I wish they would just decide to have him work at LB. Put the shirt on him this year and let him learn from our experienced guys. Edmunds, RVD and Williams/Tyler? would be a good to great LB corp..

Beat Alabama

Deon Clarke is going to be a good one too ... And don't forget about McKinnon and Motuapaka (sp?) ... Would be nice to build some depth though ... I want Edmunds at LB

QB Issues?

Sounds like Gresh has been solid all Fall, while Leal has been questionable. I realize there's a difference between 2s and 3s, but some would argue playing with 3s (at QB) is tougher in some cases because the lineman and receivers aren't as talented. Seems like every time Gresh goes out, he throws a TD and is very efficient. In the prior scrimmage he was 8-8.

Let's hope Logan stays healthy and we don't have to figure out who the better back up is.

Tweedy with the 3s? Wow. Foster must be really impressed with the R-Fr. I think Tweedy should be ahead of Winslow. He played very well the second half of the season with Winslow out and had a great spring. I don't know how you miss all that time and come back in the fall still #1.

Holmes is a stud!

There is some great feedback here. Thanks!

1) I didn't realize Malleck was hurt, although I defintely wondered by Martin was getting so many snaps as the scrimmage wore on. Despite Dunn's availability, when the 1st team went 2 tight end, George Squared and Martin got the snaps.

2) On Twitter I was asked about the linebacker play. I really focused on the safeties most of the defensive snaps, but it seamed like the #2 Offense had success running interior plays then the back would kind of worm him way outside and just keep creeping forward, especially Scales on the TD drive. I was watching the safeties, but it seemed like the tackles jammed things up well, but the pursuit wasn't there and the safeties and corners had to make the tackle. I am not 100 percent sure if the issue was the end (Wilson started at stud end with Collins on the #2's, and they were running to his side) or the linebackers were not getting over, but I am much more accustomed to seeing our linebackers makes plays that I saw yesterday, especially early. I don't want to see our safeties and corners making tackles against our number 2 D. Late in the scrimmage, the linebackers were much more involved, especially with the rush on passing downs.

3) I am still having trouble remembering which number Caleb is. Stanford will make the travel squad unless they are really sold on Knowles. Stanford is a much more polished route runner, and they need that. I was overall very disappointed that our receivers were so inept at getting open against the number 1 defense.

Despite getting toasted one time by Fuller in man coverage (thank goodness Leal wasn't looking), I have the feeling that RVD is going to Brandon Manning JGW at some point this season. He is too big, too strong, too fast, and too good not to play a ton this year. Everything looks easy for him. JGW also had a good day, but he looks like he is struggling even when he does good things (late getting aligned, reacting to motion etc.)

Viva El Guapo

RE: Quarterback I don't think

RE: Quarterback

I don't think Gresh could do what he did against a starting ACC defense. The 3rd string corners are really bad. Leal has some bad habits that result from running around to avoid a pass rush. If he has a bad throw or an INT, you can go to the tape and I guarentee he was throwing from his back foot or off somehow with his footwork fundamentals.

Logan worried me a bit. On 3rd down situations against the #1 D, he would just stare guys down. I didn't see him go to his second read on a single throw in the last 2 drives. It made the corner's job much easier. To his defense, nobody was getting open either.

Viva El Guapo

For the question about how Coleman was used as a flanker, the formation was twins left, a tight end right, and Coleman lined up as a flanker about 7 yards wide of the tight end on the right. Before the snap, he would jet motion towards the QB, and Logan would fake a veer dive to Holmes and then give it to Coleman around the end. Coleman gained decent yardage each run (around 6-10 yards a carry) and they ran it with him either 2 or 3 times.

Viva El Guapo

Offensive ID?

So I guess we all expected little to no Pistol out of this one? I like the interior running direction with our backs, but is this what the season holds? Hodge podge city?

I can't wait to see Coleman out there live, Holmes reminds me of Evans out of recent run of backs, but JC is his own mold I think. I haven't seen what Edmunds can do running it, he sounds like a force, but I'm for giving him to Bud with Mangus and (probably) Harris back there already.

In Tyrod we trust

First team ran 5 pistol plays. One was a straight pass pro. The second team ran 4 or 5 when Edmunds played with them. Farris botched a snap and Edmunds picked it up and got a 9 yard gain on one play. Most of the offense was either I, 2 TE Ace, or the gun. While that doesn't sound exciting (and irritates me because I want them to be great at one thing instead of so-so at a bunch of things), they AT LEAST have added new wrinkles. Last year, you could almost guess the play half the time based on formation. That is a recipe for disaster in Tecmo Bowl, and even worse in big time college football. At least now, it looks like they have some stuff to throw the D off balance.

Viva El Guapo

Any update

on Malleck's hand?

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

I think I read dislocated fingers...

Not sure of the source though

I wanna say it is only his pinky finger...

seen with a soft cast on it at the end of the scrimmage yesterday. Wouldn't imagine he would have to miss too much time and even so...I believe pinkies are optional when catching the football.

suckbrickkid

I am not feeling the Holmes to Evans comparison. Evans was a big body who went straight to the assigned hole, put his head down, and went through you. He was a weak cut back runner, and he wasn't going to bounce runs either, but he was a load to run hard.

Holmes to me really doesn't compare to any recent Hokie back that I can remember. He sort of picks his way along the line, then when he finds a soft spot, he darts into it. Holmes and Coleman look very similar in size. Holmes certainly is bigger, but there isn't that much difference. I do like that Holmes goes forward (which David Wilson didn't always do at key times) and I liked that both Coleman and Holmes have MUCH better vision than Wilson.

I would love to sit down with Shane Beamer and talk about Holmes, Coleman, and Edmunds. Edmunds fumbles will be his undoing, but he is just spectacular between the tackles, and he was excellent picking up blitzes. I think we'd all prefer him to be a linebacker, but if the redshirt was predestined, with Harris coming next year the entire experiment was a huge waste of a big talent. There isn't a better football talent among all the true freshmen on this team including Coleman (and I have been very impressed with Coleman.),

Viva El Guapo

From what I saw yesterday, I think Edmunds is SPECIAL. Very raw as a RB, but he certainly has the tools and talent. The fumbles don't worry me too much - that can be fixed. I agree that he probably has the most upside of anybody, but with us being so stacked at the position, it might end up working out better if he ends up at LB. Wherever he ends up, he looks like he will be a star for VT.

Side note - French, I didn't realize you were going to be there yesterday! I would have sought you out.

Livin the Dream

Follow me @HokieBarek

I think I have to back off the Evans comparison here, Holmes definitely doesn't like to hit people like he did (although it would be a great complement to Coleman), but it looks to me like Coleman has top end speed and an extra wiggle that might not be there with Holmes.

I'll revise, I can't wait to see them BOTH.

In Tyrod we trust

You are correct. Holmes is the crash and Coleman is the gash. Holmes runs hard and is not easy to tackle, but he isn't a bruiser like Evans.

Viva El Guapo

For Edmunds, both fumbles came where he got hit in the backfield and gang tackled, and he was trying to push the pile.

Was it just me, or did Deon Clarke sit out of the scrimmage? I don't remember him playing at all, even with the 3's?

Viva El Guapo

I thought one of those fumbles was an exchange issue, and the coaches were saying something about he didn't have his arm in the right position for the exchange. That should definitely be fixable.

Hokiesports.com Video Highlights of the Scrimmage

http://www.hokiesports.com/videos/?sport=football#prettyPhoto/1/

1) On the Michael Holmes touchdown run, Holmes broke a Matt Roth tackle, but it became a touchdown run because Vinston Painter got downfield and walloped a linebacker. He also had a dominating reach block on a pistol counter by Scales that is shown on video. Just look for Tyrell Wilson getting knocked 6-7 yards backwards. I am really excited about Painter's potential this year, and I wish the light had come on sooner. With the way he moves, he would have been one hell of a guard as well.

2) On Wednesday, Kris Harley was vocal and energetic. He also absolutely whipped Andrew Miller on a reach block and met the tailback 3 yards in the backfield with Miller in tow. And, Miller is holding him on the play. That is a really tough block for Miller, but if he can't make it the Hokies become much more limited in off-tackle and sweep game. Harley was vocal when he made the play. I think he is the next DT option after Antoine Hopkins. The play is at the 0:59 second mark.

3) I was really high on Ronnie Van Dyke, but he was fooled on the counter by Scales and got sucked inside, and either he or Riley busted on Malleck's flag route touchdown. Still, he looks like the guy you pick to start your defense.

Viva El Guapo