We Lost to Duke

Well, the kudos by Tech's coaches for Duke's program during the week weren't bullshit after all. Duke was/is a well coached football team without quit in them. If you read anything French and Mason wrote here over the last two weeks you knew that already. A sincere congratulations to them for winning.

I only have a few thoughts because I haven't rewatched the game, and I think it's unfair to criticize without at least putting in the due diligence of rewatching the game.

I praised J.R. Collins' play over the bye week, then he missed the game for a violation of team rules. What happened hasn't been disclosed, but it changes the narrative of his comeback story. Credit to the coaches for suspending him. As well as Dadi's played, he's not as complete a player, or as seasoned as J.R. In my opinion, J.R. was the MVP of the defense heading into Duke. It's tough to head into any game without your best player, especially a senior, but the coaches aren't putting up with any crap.

I disagree Bud, the best team always win. That's why they win.

With that said, the defense played superb, again. Before tonight, Duke averaged 35.7 points and 452.1 yards a game. The Hokies held the Blue Devils to 13 and 198 respectively.

Kendall Fuller, thank you for committing to Virginia Tech.

These uniforms, NEVER, EVER, wear them again.

Outside of a couple of spurts the offense was rather terrible. They made it look easy on the 99-yard touchdown drive, but difficult the rest of the way. Logan threw 4 picks, so naturally the consensus conclusion is Logan Thomas is the worst quarterback ever. He accounted for 300 total yards and once again led the team in rushing. His rushing numbers are great, but it's unfortunate it comes at the expense of getting hit. Having your quarterback get up off the turf every other play is not a good thing. In the first half and then some, Duke took away the short stuff that had been getting Logan in rhythm the last few weeks, and he couldn't make a play down the field.

I thought the first drive was pretty good too. Edmunds on the stretch, as well as the inverted veer, work very well and I'd like to see more of that. (But again I'll contradict myself, because Logan getting hit on the veer.)

As a whole, the offense looked as disorganized as it did before ACC play. They had momentum, and the bye week was a detriment.

If Frank Beamer had a better kicker than Journell he'd be kicking.

We lost to Duke. They were better than us. Get over it. This season is not over. All offseason the coaches preached and practiced toughness, let's hope the team learned that lesson. This team still controls its own destiny to Charlotte.



I'm not even sad.

The orange uniforms, however, have to go. Forever. Burn them. Never wear orange again.

Go Hokies.

I was considering buying an orange jersey since I don't own an orange one... Well that is definitely not happening now.

“I hope that they’re not going to have big eyes and pee down their legs so to speak,” -- Bud Foster

The orange jersey's are not at fault. The orange pants are.

During my walk back I had seriously considered taking off my orange shirt when I got home and burning it. Still am considering it.

Rip his freaking head off!

Mine will never be worn on game day again. It's now to be worn only during yard or car work.

Hmmm, I have the woodstove going. I hadn't thought about it, but I might join you in that.

yay for other people using south park references!

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

I told my son as we made the march back to the car that the silver lining was we probably would never see these orange uniforms again.

I knew we were in trouble at "Enter Sandman".

Leonard. Duh.

Did anyone else go "...oh shit" when they saw the uniforms for the first time?

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Could someone compile a list of games that we have played in orange pants for me? My guess is we lost most of them.

After yesterday, we're 2-2 with wins against Duke and Marshall, losses against Duke and Cincinnati

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

We've also lost to UVa in orange pants.

My data only goes back to 2002

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

I believe we wore orange pants and jerseys with maroon helmets against UVa in 1993. I know we've worn orange pants more than four times. I know because surely those two losses shouldn't account for the horrible painful memories I have of orange pants.

EDIT: I reread that. Sounded like I was doubting you. I meant orange pants in the pre 2002 era.

1994. DeShazo threw 5 interceptions. Only year where Gary Tranquill was OC, bustle had left to be OC at USC for a year and that game almost directly led to his rehire.

Is Loeffler our Tranquill? J/k....a little.

Vive la OCainspring?!?

That almost got a down vote from me. Never again to O'Cainspring. Give Loeffler and Grimes at least a year or 2. I like our playcalling a lot better this year than the last four. Saturday's problem for the most part wasn't the calls it was Logan's execution.

The best team doesn't always win, we were clearly the better team just couldn't finish. Appy St is not better than Michigan and JMU isn't better than us. That's why they play the games because anything can happen.

Some people spend their entire life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem

Amen. Still sucks to give Duke their first win over a ranked team in 40 years.

Hell, Minnesota hadn't beaten Nebraska in 60 years and that happened today.

I remember when I felt like this back in 2001 when Grant Noel went 4-16-4-81 against Miami. Yes, as many interceptions as completions.

As extremely frustrated as I am with Logan's interceptions, look at his numbers tonight:
21-38-4-214 + 101 yards rushing.

It is amazing what an interception (or 4) can do; literally take away 7 or 3 points each time. We only punted 3 times in this game, dominated the stats, and still only scored 10 points. So frustrating. If our defense wasn't just plain amazing, can you imagine what our record would be?

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

*Duke was 0-11 on third down
*Duke didn't have a completion in the second half
I digress,
Defense was outstanding to say the least, 4 picks in a game you should have their buses warmed up by the first half. Logan Thomas just made a lot of bonehead mistakes and it killed any decent drive we put together plain and simple. I still believe this is a team that can get Miami on the road but, as I see it now it's going to come down to which team makes the least amount of mistakes. Looking at the stats only make me more frustrated... oh well I'm still looking forward to next week.

Keep calm, Gobble on

The one thing you can say for him is the TD to Coles that was called back wasn't on him. The ensuing INT, though...

Actually the motion penalty was on Coles, so it was on him.

That's what he was saying. The motion penalty wasn't the fault of Thomas, but rather Coles.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Again, I respectfully disagree. I think we should have won that game. I think the team should realize that, and realize that they threw away that chance. I hope that they take that knowledge, and light a fire themselves to come out and crush BC like they haven't crushed a team all year.

Personally, I think the best teams ALWAYS think they will win. They never believe that someone can outplay them, and they're upset when they lose. I'd rather see a team accept their own mistakes as the reason for failure, rather than say that they were outplayed.

Own up to your faults, then work to improve them. The better team did lose today.


I disagree with you here, but I'll turkey leg you cause i get tired of negatives for matters of opinion.

On paper VT was the better team. But if we constantly went by the paper, what is the point of playing the game. The team that wins the game is the better team. We can talk all day about how we out match duke in every facet of the game, but words are nothing if they aren't backed with action.

the team lost a game they should have one. If I was a coach, I wouldn't go in there saying you were the better team today..I'd say you would supposed to be the better team, and have always been the better team in this matchup and you laid an egg.

But as you said, know your faults, improve and move on.

Fair point - maybe that's what I was going for. Make the team feel like the way they played was the difference in the game. They didn't give their best, duke did. Doesn't make Duke the "better team" per se, but it should make the Hokies very mad.


Absolutely. Also, I like to think i am fairly unbiased when it comes to criticizing the refs, but that game seemed lopsided. No excuses. You should always play as if the refs are against you from the first second.

This is the last thing I will say then I will go into a coma for the night: Duke deserves respect. Being from NC I have watched them go from nobodies to a good enough team to upset every opponent they play. So props to an elusive win on a ranked opponent...but I am still pissed.

Bud Foster needs a hug! Can you imagine the dreams he has had about how many NC's he could have won as the DC elsewhere!

"They've done studies you know, 60% of the time it works every time!"

As much as I do appreciate what Beamer has done for the program over the years, what bothers me is this isn't the first time this has happened. Beamer has lost to Cincy, (when they weren't a good team), TEMPLE, JMU, and now DOOK, at HOME. I wouldn't call Beamer elite, since he's never won the big one, but those losses at home for a top tier coach are pathetic. If that happened once, okay, i can get over that. But Four times now. Down vote me all you want. Just my two cents.

dude it happens to any coach whose been around as long as beamer, Patrino Paterno say they aren't "Elite" all you want but they win championships and games, upsets happens, its college football, they're a bunch of guys in their 20s and younger. They get cocky, and make mistakes it happens, look at Beamer's altogether success before you start calling for his head, how many of those teams has he consistently beat, and frankly 4 big upsets in 20 years aint to shabby. Am i happy about it? No! are we still relevant? yes, the sky has not come crashing down

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Never said I wanted to call for his head. i like Beamer and what he has done for the program. Upsets also happen I agree, but losing at Home to those teams is my point. Without Beamer our program might be like BooVa's. But there are still those signature losses. I guess we just have to accept what we have and keep moving on.

I don't blame CFB for this loss based on this year primarily.

I blame him for it the past 4 years, well after the sell-by date on coaches that were allowed to erode the program to the bone on the offensive side of the ball in regards to talent and schematics. There, but for the grace of Tyrod Taylor, our 10 win streak would have ended far earlier.


At least he finally made the coaching changes that any rational actor would have made years ago. I'll give it another 2 - 3 years before I throw in the towel on him, and by that time, he'll be retiring anyway.

His failure this year is that he is loyal to a fault. Loyal to his starting QB, loyal to his starting kicker.

I love Logan, but tonight he was just off. I don't know why, and I don't care. When one player is killing your game plan, you must have the fortitude to look to the future, at least for this night. If Leal is good enough to be the front-runner for starter next year, then you put him in for a series or two when this year's starter is struggling, and at least get him some reps.

And there is simply no reason to play Cody Journell anymore. Don't even know why he is still active here in what, his fourth chance? He is a crapshoot on the field, and a proven liability off it. Again, I don't know why and I don't care. But our next kicker could profit from game opportunities.

Either you take advantage of a rebuilding year and start preparing for the future, or you throw away valuable live snaps and potentially handicap next year before it's even started.

Did you watch the Marshall game? The next kicker up after Journell isn't a liability. He's a reason to punt on the twenty yard line.

So go for it on 4th downs and get an extra snap for your Offense.

Journell should never have been reinstated, IMO. I'm at a loss for why Beamer has given him so many chances. I keep telling myself it's not just because we don't have anything better waiting in the wings.

But I just don't see how it could be anything else. Be happy for someone to educate me on this point.

I feel ya there. On the other hand maybe he wants to avoid arm punts?

I feel like we just need to start handing the ball to Derrick Hopkins. Yeah. You heard me. Give the ball to Derrick Hopkins.

He was in on a goaline play on Saturday lining up as fullback. I think it was the play before the DJ Coles penalty. I was cheering so hard for a fat man touchdown, but he never got the ball.

Logan 3:16

He's only given him 2 chances and only one was for something bad. Nothing he hasn't done for other players. Beamer wants kids to succeed both on and off the field and does everything he can to help them because he is a great coach and an even better person.

Some people spend their entire life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem

True, but if Beamer has one tragic flaw, it's loyalty.

I'm guilty of that myself-it is a double edged sword that has caused much strife. When someone performs poorly, you give them another chance and articulate your expectations. But if they continue to do so, and you allow it-it's your issue and not so much their's. That's why I'm a horrible business person.

Beamer rewards hard work and effort and stick to-it-tiveness, but frequently over poor results.
Not a criticism, perhaps, but an observation.

Was anybody else upset when in the first quarter the team had jackets on? It seems like every time we have the jackets on during a game we lose. If the offense was on the field, the defense had jackets on and vice versa.

I agree with pretty much everything said in the post. We had some nice plays in this game and made progress in some things, but Logan had a big step back in some ways. Early on he was missing a lot of passes, and most of his picks came on tip drills from throwing into double coverage based on my view from the stands. The replay will tell me if it was as ugly as I thought on some of those throws.

first thing i said..."oh shit all orange uni's...this could be bad" who knew i was gonna be right. i love kendall. i already know he going to be one of my all time favorite hokies.

my personal opinion, i gotta disagree joe and agree with bud, i think today we were the better team, we...yes we, but the team (offense)...just made more mistakes which caused the L (yeah i need to re watch the game but my gut reaction).

we were and are the better team with more talent. considering were 6-2 im really ok with it. after last season i did truly did not think we'd be 6-2 at his point in the season.

this game and the bc game coming up i thought could be trap games. we need to get our head on straight, not worry about bcs rankings and just get out there and play well. learn from our mistakes and get it together to get a w next saturday

tyrod did it mikey! tyrod did it!

This hurts. I've calmed down from angry to sad.

"Tyrod, looking desperately, now throws it deep, has a man open, CAUUUGHT! Danny Coale, all the way!"

I have 3 favorite teams. VT, Kentucky, and whoever the hell is playing Tennessee.

say what you want about Logan's rushing stats but half of them came on plays where we had open WRs downfield I dont understand why hes so afraid to stretch the field

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Interesting on the 99 yard drive... I was absolutely psyched, but it wasn't a good "O" by any means, it was a deep pass that Knowles took a double take to catch, but he did! Then I believe it was back to back pass plays that Logan, who all you haters can have a poo poo burger because keep in mind he is still playing a position he didn't ask to play, tucked it and ran to gain. Honestly, yes kicking killed us, 4 interceptions killed us, but our "O" killed us, period.

If Knowles caught that cleanly, it's the longest VT play from scrimmage for a touchdown in school history

story of our offense with LT as QB... even big catches are about 50% likely to be no YAC because the ball was innacurate or the reciever made the catch harder than it should've been

Wiley, Brown, Russell, Drakeford, Gray, Banks, Prioleau, Charleton, Midget, Bird, McCadam, Pile, Hall, Green, Fuller, Williams, Hamilton, Rouse, Flowers, Harris, Chancellor, Carmichael, Hosley, Fuller, Exum, Jarrett

...and the Mailman was wide open on the play. Logan stared down DK80 the whole time. The next play, the mailman was wide open again. The 3rd play Logan stares him down from the snap and doesn't make a completion. Just don't understand his thoughts/progressions.

We put the K in Kwality

There was one play (I believe on a different drive) where the mailman was all alone in the end zone, jumping up and down, being ignored, no one within 20 yards. I know, view from the stands vs. the field and all that, but it happened enough times to drive me crazy.

I'm still in shock tonight but only at how poor our offense really is and not that we lost. Give Duke some credit as they always play us tight and appear to have a decent team now. After watching many games today, I think we may have the worst offense in the country. Hopefully someone smarter than me can help me understand why. It CAN'T be because we don't have decent athletes or no talent on offense compared to an average team. On the positive side, we still control our destiny to the ACC title game. I still plan to be there, hopefully our offense will be there with me! All orange effect shirts and uniforms should go in the wood stove tonight!

We're gonna destroy em in Durham next year. Also for whatever reason I feel like we'll be more focused now for BC.

Also also, this team reminds me of those Tony Dungy Tampa Bay Buccaneers teams that had Shaun King playing QB. Legendary defense, offensive offense.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Joe, just when I had decided to stop caring about this team again this year, and instead spend that time on something else more worthwhile, you write this article and give me that glimmer of hope and reel me back in. Sigh. We Hokies are gluttons for emotional punishment.

"We end up lookin' like a monkey fuckin' a football out there!"

~ Randy Quaid in Days of Thunder

Not the first time we looked like this, nor will it be the last. When I was younger I used to wake up in the morning feeling like my dog died after a loss like this. I know it sucks guys.

My advice is to not read the national stuff this week. Also redirect your anger from our team onto something more constructive. Honestly I'm a little disappointed with the disrespect that I've seen on the site today towards our own. I'm not talking about expressing your opinion on whether a player or coach is good or not, I'm not going to get mad at anyone for calling for Leal or just general bitching. I mean the vitriol aimed at our players, today seemed a little more high than usual for my taste.

Here is a brief list of things that I blame for today's game:

  1. Orange pants
  2. My t-shirt
  3. My pants
  4. Where I was positioned in relation to the TV.
  5. The two noobs who were watching with me.
  6. How late in the game I started watching a horse on treadmill gif
  7. Duke

Let's not rag on the team that we love. We love them for having a soul, which we often criticize programs like Alabama for not having. This is a team that means something. This is a team that even when everything goes wrong, is still there, playing their goddamn motherfucking nuts off. If you think you can make better decisions about who should be playing, you go ahead, walk into the Athletics department, and demand to be named head coach. I fucking dare you to fucking do it. Either do that, or shut the hell up about how Leal should be in, or how Journell should be out. If you think that the players aren't doing enough, go ahead and walk out the practice field, and demand to be named starting quarterback. I fucking dare you to fucking do it. Either do that, or shut the hell up about how Logan Thomas is a big dumb oaf.

FULL DISCLOSURE: This message is in agreement with Hoqiez. Not an attack on him. He's getting a turkey leg for voicing my opinion. Hokies' Respect is something that means something to me. We need to face the facts that our players played their nuts off, but that Duke's players simply had more nuts to play off. We need to use the love that we have for our team as fans and direct toward the team in a positive way. We need them to know that we are proud of our Hokies, but hungry for them to win. We need them to know that we care just as much as they do, but we just don't have the talents that they have. We need them to know that it's not just them out on an island all by themselves, and that we want what they want too.

Well said...the players and coaches have already earned my respect, and now I can add Duke as well.

Turkey leg for the days of thunder quote

There are wolves and there are sheep, I am the sheep dog

I apologize. It was my fault. I knew fully that each home game my daughters attend, VT wins.
I selfishly wanted to stay for the whole game and knew my 4 y.o. Would get cold and want to leave.

I did not bring them to the game. It's my fault, I blew it. I hope I can be forgiven.

On another note, there was a guy in Sec 13 row WWW with a t-shirt, horse on a treadmill. I mentioned The Key Play to him and he stared blankly at me as he walked in front of my seat. Don't know if he misunderstood me because I was stone cold sober or if he's not here.

It's partially my fault, man. I too knew that every game I attended at Lane, we won. I had to take the PhD qualifier yesterday and missed most of the first half. By the time I got there, it was already too late.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Yeah but, normally 1/2 the game would have been good enough.

2 loses, 2 games with huge special teams errors. Should CJ step out on the field anymore? If he is performing this poorly, lets give someone else a shot.
Foster again showing he is one of, if not the, best DCs in the country. Even on the 4th down play, he had multiple guys in place to make the stop.
The play of Fuller doesn't need to be discussed because everyone knows he is an unbelievable talent.

I can't remember another college football team where the defense (awesome) and offense (horrific) were such polar opposites. If you don't count the three touchdowns our offense & special teams gave Alabama, our defense is only giving up 12 points per game. Our team is only averaging 21 points per game (which also includes our points from interception & block punt returns). Take away those and our offense is only averaging 19.5 points per game. Therefore, our offense is only giving the defense a one TD buffer. When you think about it, if our defense wasn't this awesome we may not have more than 1 or 2 wins at this point. With interceptions and consistent defensive stops, how many times have we stopped the other team from scoring this 1 TD that would close the 19-12 point gap? (rhetorical question)

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

In response to your first bit, see Texas A&M this year. Top 5 offense, triple-digit-ranked defense.

See Michigan State last year and during the Kurt Cousins years

A new season...new hope

Kirk Cousins. But I agree.

Turkey leg for the correction

A new season...new hope

Is it just me, or do we always seem sluggish and under perform off of bye weeks? I feel like I have seen this before.

This is a game where it all caught up with us. Good job Duke; congrats on the win.
Hokies: we stunk it up on offense. So now fix it. Coaches, use this to motivate what you got to do better. Then go get some more talent and finally get the offense back to respectable.

Tech never blows away recruiting class rankings, but I feel like we don't bring in bad talent. I feel like there is a LOT of FBS teams that have worse talent than VT. How, with this talent, can you have such a bad offense? 112-of-125, that has to be hard to achieve, right? You can't just accidentally be that bad. How are you consistently that bad? I understand that we are ->| |<- this close to having a decent offense according to the amazing film breakdown that others provide, but how long can you be "this close" before you are just perpetually bad?

We have a deficiency of talent on our offense, and then the talent we have has not been developed as it could be.
We have spent the last few years bringing in projects on offense and I don't think we had the coaches to develop them.

Examples: Logan Thomas-top TE in the nation that was changed to QB and suffered under O'Cain. Trey Edmunds-was more likely to play LB but changed to RB due to no depth, Kalvin Cline-a late pickup with minimal experience that would be a redshirt in a perfect world, ALL of our wide receivers (except DJ)-do you think any of them would be starting for another upper tier program?, and our O-line was so screwed up that the entire spring plus was spent trying to find out who could play where.

I'm not trying to come off as a negative Nancy; just calling a spade a spade.

it's true, a spade has been called and it's hard to argue. More to the point that we are upset over the coaches exceeding our expectations and now we are upset that we were right as a fanbase in the first place.

JR used to text my roommate frequently "do you know anyone that has any 'tree' " so think the violation of team rules is what it always means. disappointing.

Go Tech


Keep in mind that Virginia, yes them, put up 22 on this team. We barely managed 10.

We also didn't allow squat after halftime, while UVA didn't score after half and let up 35.

Nice write up Joe. Nothing more needs to be said about this game..as bad as the offense was and is we were still in position to tie the game. Duke wasn't moving the ball that half..if Cody wasn't having a shit year we likely win 16 13 and everyone is happy. A positive note though, at least we weren't up 22 and blew the lead like LOLUVA.

Touchdown Tech - Bill Roth

None of this surprises me. It's classic Beamer. I was in the field training all day and made it out in time to catch the final heartbreak. It never seems to fail. We get ranked have a bye week and get beat by someone we shouldn't. I love VT but I am sick of losses like this one. Everyone is like chill out we could still play in the ACC Championship but really guys we lost to Duke. We dont deserve a championship even if we sonehow win out. Everyone knew this was a trap game except apparently our players. This season is over acc championship or not. We had a chance albeit a long shot of something more, once again we have to wait and see...maybe Ford or Leal will be the winners we need to compliment this defense. I don't know... What I do know is that I'm sick of seeing us earn respect just to flush it down the toilet.

He's Still Open!!!

Agreed. Tired of losing games like this that we really should not at home. Upsets do happen but this has happened four times now, if you don't count ECU at Charlotte. I'm not advocating Beamer step down or anything. But his record against top five and ten teams is horrible as well. He won't do it, but maybe changing his coaching style a bit and getting fired up more might light some fires, but don't see that happening either. We just have to live with it because its not going to change. Perhaps he should get rid of the empty MNC trophy case and play to win rather than thinking it'll get filled one day because its empty.

P.S. Not that he doesn't play to win. He's just to nice of a coach to do anything different.

I suspect I'm a little older than a lot of the posters on this site.
I remember the 2-8-1 seasons.
There was a time when the athletic department couldn't give tickets away.
To a football game. In Blacksburg.
I know that's hard for some of you to believe, but it wasn't all that long ago.
The point here isn't to lecture people on how to feel because this certainly isn't a great moment.
But there was a time when a home loss to a conference opponent was simply the way things were.
Frank Beamer has done incredible things here. Let's not lose perspective and say dumb stuff based on one game.
Go drink some rails and soon this will all be forgotten.
Tech will be playing meaningful football games in November for the 21st consecutive year. There aren't a lot of programs that can say that.

So you're saying be happy with today's turd because it used to be worse?

Nope, just that there's an element of Tech's fanbase that thinks it's a birthright to win.
Winning is hard and you can't win every game.

I've been going to or watching the Hokies games since I was little. I expect VT to lose some games. It happens. Just not games where we SHOULD win. It'll blow over like the rest. But we still have the "you lost to Dook, JMU, and Temple" games that will hang over our heads until we win much bigger games than an average Orange Bowl game or an ACC championship. Wins against teams that are ranked high, not necessarily bowl games year in and year out.

I agree with this. It is frustrating because over the years, we rarely beat a team that we shouldn't (i.e. a true upset) while it seems almost yearly we lose a game we really shouldn't. The perfect picture of this is our current record - two losses, one to Alabama and one to Duke. I grant you that this isn't the Duke of old, but still.

Can't we demand a team that's at least competitive in more than one of the three areas?

I don't know, man. I started there in 1983, so I remember the 2/3-full stadiums, the playing nearly an entire Commonwealth of Virginia schedule, the one good opponent a year (and losing), etc, etc.

And yet.

I was so irritated at the dumpster fire we were putting on, that I just had to turn off the streaming and go back to bed after it went 13-0. (I'm in Japan, so even with the later start, my 'had enough' moment was still before 6:30am.) I'm sorry, but this performance by the offense and Journell was beyond inexcusable. Not just players, but even some play-calling reminded me of Voldemort.

I guess, by 'meaningful' games, you mean playing for a shot at the ACCCG. If we lose at home to Duke, how do we beat UM to get back on track for the ACCCG? And do we want that? Even if the defense slows F$U down from their norm, that means we STILL get beat 30-3.

The 30-3 implies that we can make a field goal...

If that's what you took away from his comment, then we read different things. Good job, good effort.

I don't see how you can read it any other way. Maybe you can rephrase it for me, perhaps without the condescension this time?

One game huh? Ok, lets not even count upsets. What about letdowns? Like the game against Stanford? Or Clemson for the last few years? Beamer compared to Dabo shouldnt even be a conversation, but the fact that Beamer and Co. have been at it for so long Clemson and other teams should not be catching up to us. Out recruiting, out coaching, out playing, etc. It shouldn't be happening.

-Being aggressive, being tough...that's the Virginia Tech way.

Oh man...and let's not forget the recruits who were at the game. What are they thinking right now?

Kid-"why waste my career at VT, they can't even muster more than 10pts on Duke." At least UVA did that...damn.

At least give us a report on how Mark Leal plays in pratice.

-Being aggressive, being tough...that's the Virginia Tech way.

1. You're the only person in America who uses the word "muster".
2. I don't know what the recruits thought, but I'm sure some were turned off by the offense, some were probably unimpressed by the crowd, some may love Blacksburg and want to help the Hokies win regardless of their play. Others may want Bud Foster to be their coach. Teenagers are fickle. However, Tech went 7-6 last year and are having one their best recruiting cycles ever.

Your signature mentions "tough". Change is tough. To expect the new coaches to turn the previous regime's players into gold in a single season is unrealistic and foolish. Loeffler and Co. may turn out to be failures at Tech, but they deserve time to fail, or succeed.

Lol, well thank you sir. There is always someone to talk some sense into us after we get emotional about a loss.

-Being aggressive, being tough...that's the Virginia Tech way.

But hopefully on the other side of the coin the kid might be thinking: great atmosphere, great campus, great facilities. I want to come play here and help them get back on track on offense. At least thats my dream.

Did anyone else notice that the field didn't look to great today? Between that and the orange uniforms, it felt like the odds were against us!

Go Hokies no matter what!

Go Hokies!

If you listened to the announcers, you also heard that our all acc cornerback who returned from an acl injury was anthony exhume.

I started a thread earlier called LOLVT...admittedly it was out of frustration. I have to admit that I am still frustrated, but there are a few things I still need to say. I completely disagree with Bud basically saying the best team lost tonight. In my opinion, the best team on any given night, is the team that wins the damn ballgame that day. Logan played like shit, which translates to Virginia Tech played like shit. This is a team, and if one aspect of the team plays bad it reflects on the rest of the team. Now is the time to get over this damn loss and regroup. We still have a damn division to win.

Exit Light, Enter Night....Go Hokies

At the bar tonight after we lost a Texas fan who was sitting next to me told me "Hey at least you're worst season in 20 years was a bowl win, I didn't think you guys would have a winning record so far." We then did shots of Wild Turkey.

This is one of those years where we take what we can get, the offense was shit for years. Change that we called for happened. Different coaches, different philosophies, different players needed. This is a team where we will win if the offense does just enough to ride on the defense. Today that didn't happen. When you overhaul a coaching staff there are going to be growing pains. This year it happened that the defense is balls to the wall amazing, but the offense can at times get out of it's own way. We were never expected to be in a position to control our destiny to the ACCCG, but we still are. And to be quite honest, we're spoiled with winning. Let things get settled before you start calling for heads.

Just a week ago there were posts about how we could make it to the MNC game, this week we lost to Duke. I'm curious as to how many of the people spewing vitriol over this loss were playing the "Road to Pasadena" game. I'm not saying don't be pissed, just don't shit on the team and just man up and take a shot of Wild Turkey.

+1 for voicing my opinion and for a shot of reality chased by Wild Turkey.

That last Logan INT will haunt me for many years to come.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

It looked like a drop by Knowles in my opinion. Off the fingertips. Thats the defense for Logan. Advocate for Knowles is that pass was rifled, slightly high, and from less than ten yards away.

It's still something that will stalk my dreams and will require at least some therapy. But then that happens every time we suit up in orange pants.

It was the wrong decision. Byrnn or whoever on the deep post to the middle of the field was behind the deep safety. A reasonable throw and its a TD.

You know, I think I remember seeing this play. At the time I thought, "Wait, why are we trying to throw the ball deep to Willie Byrn? Willie Byrn doesn't have the speed to go deep, he'll always be covered by a CB or a safety. Why didn't we send Knowles on that route?"

The entire game looked eerily like a replay of this year's spring game. Can't explain it; just had this gut feeling from the beginning it was going to be bad. Anyway, time to move on.

These are my thoughts from the game: 1) you can't blame the uniforms, even as bad as our offense played we were in the game til the last pick and the two missed tackles on 4th down. Also our colors are maroon and ORANGE! I'm personally a fan of all maroon everything but giving our secondary color some love isn't a bad thing to me. 2) Logan is terrible, I think we all got spoiled and believed his hype when he had a decent rb and two of the best receivers our school has ever had. Logan has done what no other qb has done in quite sometime: he hasn't led us to the ACC title game, I know the year isn't over yet and there is chance but I just don't see it coming from him. I think his leadership is questionable and when things start going bad he tries to do it all w his legs. As a qb you lead your team w your arm. If your wrs ain't getting open you check down to a te or rb. If they ain't catching it throw a pass that they have to catch. Hold your people accountable. 3) our read option would work a lot better if Logan would give it to the rb a little more often. Remember the one against Miami to win the game? Miami had to respect dw and that's the reason the hole was wide open for Logan. We have no running game. Defense are dropping eight and daring Logan to beat them w his arm and I hate to tell ya he isn't putting the fear of God I to any defense w his arm. I'm glad this is his last year here. 4) special teams has been long forgotten in Backsburg. I think Beamer has put less time and effort into our special teams for years now. We lost a game on a blocked punt to ecu. Counting on journal making a kick is a crap shoot now days. 5) we are a running team, we line up and run the ball to set up the pass. It seems that of past years if the run game isn't working we just abandon it and start chucking the ball up. Trey edmunds is a nasty back he proved it against te best team in the nation in his first college game ever.

Yes I am extremely angry about losing to Duke but these things have been happening for years now. I understand it takes time to install a new offense and get the o line gelled up. But we have talented players and something is just missing. I do hope we can win out and play against fsu in the title game and hopefully make a BCS bowl. But I want to win the damn thing this time.

There are wolves and there are sheep, I am the sheep dog

This is all Glennon's fault.

I know right its always Glennons fault lol.


Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Don't worry folks. I have a time machine. Ill fix this! Brb!


Godspeed to you, time warrior! We're all counting on you!

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

It was a LONG night at work to say the least. I sneaked out to the car to hear the last 4 minutes or so of the game and just screamed obscenity's the entire time I cant imagine what people were thinking when they walked passed my car at the time. After about an hour I calmed down and realized we still control our own destiny and the road to Charlotte still goes through Miami. We win out and we get our shot at FSU in the title game. I'm strongly hoping that the players realize they let this one go when they could have grasped it and that it will/has lit an enormous fire under the asses of this team and they set out on a mission to divide and conquer blow and the doors off BC next week and continue on the Hokies Revenge Tour 2013. This Season My Fellow Hokie Fans Is Far From Over.


Also these uniforms need to be burned. Orange has always spelled impending doom/disaster for us.



Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

I know this is more of the same but Logan was just awful today. Interceptions aside, I saw three different times he had a receiver WIDE open, and I mean WIDE open for an easy touchdown downfield and he either checked down or took off running. Outside of the long pass to Knowles he just did everything wrong today. When I think of Logan Thomas's career as a Hokie, I will think of this game, not 2011 Miami anymore.

Loeffler didn't impress me either. Insanely stupid playcalling at points. Bouncing Edmunds far to the outside on 4th and inches deep in Duke territory when we have a QB who is literally only good for QB sneaks up the middle might have been the dumbest thing I've seen since the Marcus Davis reverse pass. I still think he's been a huge improvement over O'Cainspring when you look at the season as a whole but he had me ready to rip my hair out so many times today.

The defense, whatever. We all know they're great. 13 points against Duke would look way more awesome if our offense wasn't such a clusterfuck. Kendall Fuller had three freaking picks and dropped two other easy ones, could have easily had 5, dude is special.

I get that we don't have any kicker options better than Journell but I don't think anyone could be any worse right now either. This clown shouldn't even be on the team to begin with, it would be a lot easier to swallow these missed FG's if they were coming from somebody who didn't do something completely asinine off the field every year. Makes it really easy to pick him out and hate on him.

Completely agree with you on that 4th down call. It was a major brain cramp by Loeffler to try and run Edmonds wide on that play. And lest anyone forget, it was right after that 4th down stop that Duke drove to score their only TD of the day. That was THE pivotal play in the game, IMHO.

Blame the orange uni's all you want. It was Logan Thomas' inability to throw the football that cost us that game. Bad Logan reared his head and we lost to duke. No more TEs for QB please.

Where's the beef?

We lost because our entire offense is Logan Thomas. His inconsistency meant that he was bound to have some terrible games, and one of those games happened yesterday. There were many plays in the game where this inconsistency was on display, but I just want to point out one particular play:

We had the ball around the red zone on a 2nd and 8; Logan drops back to pass and Byrn comes underneath on a quick drop off pass misdirection screen play; when Logan throws the ball Byrn is literally about 5 yards away from him; the ball is thrown so far behind and high that Byrn has no chance to catch it.

Now, natural QBs will hit that pass 100% of the time. It's inexcusable to not throw a catchable pass from that sort of range. Unfortunately, Logan is not a natural QB. He maybe hits that pass 9 out of 10 times with most of those completions thrown too hard and either high or behind the receiver and certainly not being thrown in stride. This absolutely kills the receivers because they have become accustomed to expecting these passes to not be well thrown. They expect to have to plant both of their feet and make an amazing grab behind them before they can even think about gaining more yards up field. It's a huge reason for why our bubble screens are completely awful. As a result, plays that should gain 8 yards only go for 3, and plays that would've gone for 3 end up being a loss of yardage or no gain. Danny Coale and Jarrett Boykin were able to overcome a lot of this and keep their forward momentum going even though the pass was awful. That's what great players do. However, we no longer have any solid playmakers on offense, which is why I hate blaming Logan Thomas because the guy has the entire offense on his shoulders.

Despite his flaws, he is still a good player. Not a great player, but certainly above average. I feel like the entire rest of the players on offense are average at best. No one has stepped up to become a legitimate threat that opposing DCs have to game plan against. So, instead of expecting Logan to be 120% of our offense, we should be expecting other players to pick up the slack.

I really feel for Logan. The guy probably would have been a great TE and probably drafted in the first three rounds. Instead we tried to teach him how to play quarterback even though he is clearly not a natural QB. He still had enough talent to overcome that and become an above average QB, but that just doesn't cut it at the next level.

That's so spot on, that's the Federalist Papers of the Logan Thomas issue.

yeah, it was cold, and the o wasnt doin much to energize us.

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Walter White?!?!?

"On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory." - General Douglass MacArthur


Joe- I have to say this was level-headed and well-written post considering the circumstances. Thanks for not being a tool.

For everyone else, this program has made their mark after losing tough games:

2006: L to BC, 6-0 rest of season
2007: L to BC, 4-0 rest of season
2008: L to BC, 3-2 rest of reason
2009: L to UNC, 4-0 rest of season
2010: L to JMU, 10-0 rest of season
2011: L to CU, 7-0 rest of season

A minor setback for a major comeback? We still control our own destiny in the ACC Costal. We still have the best defense in the country which means we'll be in every game we play. We still have a senior QB. Are we mathematically out of the NC? Yeah but we weren't going to make it this year anyways.

Everyone, chill the fuck out. Yes, we lost to Duke but it's not like we're UVA.

Just looking at this post...fuck Boston College.

They're up next week. BC hate week begins

I have a needlepoint hand stitched "2007" up on my wall for looking at angrily.

Up vote. This cracked me up.

NOTHING quite says frustration and commitment like an angrily-made needlepoint hanging on a wall......

I don't know why, but "Thanks for not being a tool." has me dying right now. I plan on working that into conversations the rest of the week.

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

I think what pisses me off about this loss is that I remember the 2&8 seasons from the 80s ...VT is my school and my father's and my uncles' ...it is literally in my blood . I remember when we were irrelevant and maybe I'm greedy now but I want to fill that empty case. I'm proud of what Beamer has done but I want to see it finished... We cannot do that by always being the signature win of Duke or JMU or ECU. I respect the old guard on this sight so I'm done. Now it's time for VT to do what I remember from these previous losses and bounce back. We better win out and Logan better play like he's on fire. It's time to sack up and be the team we should be. Go Hokies!!!

He's Still Open!!!

Not only did LT cough up four INTs, he also had about three or four others that could have easily been intercepted too. He missed several wide open receivers downfield for easy TDs, overthrew wide open receivers, and made a lot of bad decisions on where to go with the football.

To put it bluntly, he was terrible yesterday. It was easily the worst game of his career at VT, IMHO.

But it's just one game, and the Coastal Division is still there for the taking.

We all know that our QB is capable of playing much better than he did yesterday. But the defensive coordinators for BC, Miami, Maryland and UVA are going to look at the game film from yesterday and are probably going to conclude that it's a good game plan to crowd the LOS, take away the short stuff, and try to force Logan Thomas to beat you by going deep.

Can he respond to the challenge? We will see.

Yeah so today is the first day back to this board since...yeah. I've been been way too sad to even look at anything with a V or a T. Stayed away for a day recollected my thoughts realized it's not the end of the world and so on and so forth. But I realized why we lost. It's my fault. I watched the game with my girlfriend. Everytime we watch a game together since we graduated and started doing the whole long distance thing, we lose (with the exception of #LOLUVA, but that's the exception that proves the rule right?). So I take full responsibility for the loss. I should know by now it's either her or nice things. This is why we can't have nice things.

I too watched the game with a girl who cost us the game.

Tough loss. Time to start seeing 2nd string QB/QB of the future getting reps if Logan Thomas can't perform on the field. Still got a shot towards Charlotte. That's a good sign.

Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano

I don't know if you've noticed, but Logan Thomas gives us the best chance to win every game from the offense. He's not a quarterback. We all know that. But he is the undisputed leader of this team and he has all of the respect of the players around him. He had a bad game and we lost. That means that NOBODY ELSE on offense could step up and compensate for LT3. If he's not on the field we don't even have a chance. He needs to play well for us to win, but he needs to be on the field.

It's not ideal to have our whole offense rely on Thomas, but he's all that we have right now. The recruiting has been pretty bad on the offensive side of the ball for the last several years and we're starting to really feel the effects of that. We'll get a chance to see the QB of the Future next year. I suspect Andrew Ford has a good chance to take the starting role. He is Loeffler's first real QB recruit and he will be the best option moving forward. What's more important than the QB of the future, though, is having actual O-Linemen instead of a bunch of converted TEs

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Oh I agree that putting all the blame on LT's shoulders is ridiculous. The whole offense is not existent, and no one else has stepped up to help him. To be honest, this is more of a fault of recruiting and playing development, but 90% of the populace can't/won't recognize this as the true problem.

I was just trying to to point out it's time to start seeing the future. If it's garbage time, then thats fine. But Beamer needs to start development now, instead of starting someone next season.

Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano

If he's not on the field we don't even have a chance

It's easy to say that since Leal didn't get a shot. There's really no way of knowing that.

I don't think he was our best chance Saturday. Before the game I thought so, but after that disgusting performance, how can you say he was our best chance to win? I just don't get it. I think I may have to take some time away from this site because I don't want to continue to be negative, but I feel it necessary to respond to some of the nonsense I see. The fact that we have this discussion every few weeks and yall have to continue to defend him and make up new things to defend him by just proves that he's the issue.

Also, how ironic is it that you say he's our best chance to win every game then immediately follow that up with "He's not a quarterback. We all know that."

I just, just don't get it. I'm not saying Logan supporters should be Mark Leal truthers now, but for christ sake, if he completely sucked, then admit he sucked and stop making ridiculous excuses for him (not just you VPIhokie, just in general)

Here's my take on the whole thing. I love LT for his heart, leadership, dedication to the team, and his ability to represent VT proudly. That earns him a lot of credit and goodwill in my book. The man also has a lot of balls to do what he does, and despite struggles, he has made some clutch plays for us this year, and in the past. He's also made some boneheaded decisions. Overall, great guy, phenomenal athlete, and average quarterback. He holds a lot of school records, but that's probably because he's got to take everything upon himself to do, given that he's our best athlete on the field. Tyrod had to do less passing and designed running because of the supporting cast. Imagine where we'd be if LT had RMFW and Evans in the backfield for two years?

Sorry, spaced out for a second on that lovely little daydream.

The thing about Leal is - what do we know about him? Of course, you can counter (rightly) with, "he hasn't seen any real game action, so we can't judge." True enough. But clearly the coaches feel that the best quarterback we have is LT. That speaks volumes about our quarterback recruiting over the years. We don't have a guy on the bench who the coaches will look at and say, "hell with it, you're in on the next drive - make it happen" like they did with Tyrod. Beamer may be loyal to a fault, but I'm not convinced that's the case here.

LT may be average, but he may also be the best we've got, and all we can do is make our assessment based on the coaches' decisions. They see these guys every day in practice, which is vastly more than any of us do.

It's easy to say that since Leal didn't get a shot. There's really no way of knowing that.

I defer to the coaches. The reality is they watch practice, they're more invested, and they want to win more than any of us. If they're playing Logan over Leal, they believe he gives them the best chance to win.

Consider two additional things:

A. This is college football. There are caps on practice times. Tech is 3/4 through the season in which Logan has been getting No. 1 reps. The best chance to swap QBs is during a bye. Forgetting that the coaches gave the team time off, Logan was playing very well so the timing was never there. Moving forward with Leal would have been a decision best made by Loeffler in spring.

B. Outside of Thomas, who is the rushing threat? Look at the No. 1 and 2 rushers in ACC play.


1. Thomas 16 carries 58 yards
2. Knowles 1 carry 2 yards


1. Edmunds 14 carries 27 yards
2. Coleman 8 carries 26 yards


1. Thomas 16 carries 27 yards
2. Coleman 6 carries 25 yards


1. Thomas 24 carries 101 yards
2. Edmunds 12 carries 44 yards

The numbers are pedestrian, but Thomas has been the leading rusher in 3 of 4 ACC games. It's more time consuming to quantify, but the threat of Thomas keeping on the veer and inverted veer has opened up rushing opportunities for the tailbacks. I do not think Leal would have the same effect.

Not only would the timing of a switch be wrong with so much left on the table, but it would downgrade the rushing attack from poor to nonexistent.

First off, I appreciate the detailed, informative response Joe. Also, can you ask French to answer my question on the other thread about Jarrett. I think it was a good question. I digress....

I defer to the coaches. The reality is they watch practice, they're more invested, and they want to win more than any of us.

I agree with you on that. There's no way to deny that, but that wasn't really my point. My point when I said, "There's really no way of knowing that" wasn't to say that Logan doesn't give us the best chance or even to say that Leal should start moving forward. I'm just saying that after we saw what we saw Saturday, it's such a strong statement to say we have no chance if Leal plays. As French said, the line played well, Edmunds and the receivers were ok, but we couldn't get anything going because of our quarterback. So in hindsight, to say Leal gave us zero chance was just kind of extreme fanboy. Maybe I'm just making too much of the statement.

But while I'm here, here's my stance on Logan. I'm brutally honest about him (not a hater, at all) but I don't want to bench him right now and I haven't wanted him benched at all this season. I don't want Leal to start and I don't think that he would give us the best chance to win consistently. However, Logan is so inconsistent that I've never been more confused about a player in my life. Sometimes I love him, sometimes I can't stand him. And when I can't stand him, I really can't fucking stand him. Nonetheless I haven't wanted and don't want him benched, because I'm just as unsure about Leal as everyone else is. I want Logan to be our starter Saturday against bc but I want good Logan, not bad Logan, and definitely not horrendous Logan (all three exist). If bad Logan shows up in chestnut hill and doesn't get his shit together by halftime, then yes I want to see Leal. I think he's let us down enough times to justify that statement.

And lastly, my anti-LT comments (aka LT hate) don't come from a Mark Leal truther point of view. I'm usually just responding to something that I can't believe was said in defense of Logan. Not in a troll way, but in a lets-be-honest-here kind of way.

I may have used too strong of a phrase when I said we stand no chance with LT off the field. You're right that we can't know for sure. I'm confident that when LT is on, he's a better option than Leal and that is why he starts. When LT is off, who really knows? Leal is hopefully better than LT was on Saturday, but the coaches don't count on LT being off like that very often. Risk/Reward.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I understand your confusion at my seemingly contradictory statements. Those lines, looking from the outside don't make sense together, but there is much more to it.

LT is our best chance to win because of his drive, physicality and leadership more so than his skill at the position. We've been recruiting 'athletes' as quarterbacks instead of 'quarterbacks' for some time.

I would argue that he is AN issue..not THE issue. Our offense is severely broken. There are a plethora of problems and LT3 is one of them. But he's what we've got as a QB and a leader at the moment and the coaches are starting him so they must think he's the best option. I think we'll be in better shape when we have Andrew Ford and a solid O-line to go along with some stud receivers and a stable of backs.

I agree with you that we can't know if badLT is better or worse than Leal (let's hope the latter). For argument's sake, lets assume that GoodLT > Leal > BadLT

The coaches have to start LT assuming GoodLT will show up instead of BadLT. They're putting themselves in a bit of a conundrum though by risking the appearance of BadLT. What would happen to LT's psyche if he's benched in favor of Leal during a game? Would that disrupt his confidence enough that we may not see GoodLT again for the rest of the season? Is it worth the risk?

Once you start asking yourself those questions, you realize that it might not be worth it to risk losing GoodLT indefinitely in favor of Leal for one game. If GoodLT > Leal > BadLT and you risk losing GoodLT for good then we're in worse shape theoretically. What would happen if BadLeal showed up?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we can't afford to lose GoodLT, so we just have to stick with LT through thick and thin for the whole season and just hope that he shows up every game. I'd say with a 6-2 record, he shows up more often than not. I'll take that.

Is he our ONLY chance to win as I said before. Perhaps not. Is he the undisputed leader of this offense? I think so. And I want the leader of the team on the field as much as possible.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Gotcha. Makes sense. Like I said, I was probably just focusing on that one sentence a little too much. I do want to say that I think you hit it right on the head with this one:

The coaches have to start LT assuming GoodLT will show up instead of BadLT. They're putting themselves in a bit of a conundrum though by risking the appearance of BadLT. What would happen to LT's psyche if he's benched in favor of Leal during a game? Would that disrupt his confidence enough that we may not see GoodLT again for the rest of the season? Is it worth the risk?

I think we didn't see Leal Saturday because the coaches didn't want to start any type of controversy and don't want Logan to be more in his head than he already is. I agree with you all the way on that and I don't know if it would have been worth the risk either which is why I haven't been a Leal guy this whole time. However, like I said if bad Logan shows up this week and doesn't get it right, then at that point, I think it may be worth the risk. We'll see though. I know good Logan is in there and I hope he shows up Saturday.

Right there with you man

Go Hokies!

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I wish people would stop saying "instead of a bunch of converted TE's" as if the converted TE's that played OL for us were ineffective. Duane Brown, Ed Wang, Andrew Lanier were all solid players for us and starters. Brown and Wang were in fact better than any player on the current OL. Those guys weren't good TE's who were fed until they gained 40lb, they were guys who had the frame to play OL and just needed to fill out.

The real problem was simply under-recruiting OL.

Wiley, Brown, Russell, Drakeford, Gray, Banks, Prioleau, Charleton, Midget, Bird, McCadam, Pile, Hall, Green, Fuller, Williams, Hamilton, Rouse, Flowers, Harris, Chancellor, Carmichael, Hosley, Fuller, Exum, Jarrett

Point of correction if I must:
Lanier was a TE at Dorman High School, just up the road from me. He was 6'4" and a skinny 230ish lbs as a senior in high school.

right, Lanier was a high school TE that became an someone effective OT for us at the college level. If he was "skinny" at 6'4" 230lb it means he had the frame to play OL. Duane Brown and Ed Wang were the same way.

You also have to remember that college/pro OL always carry extra weight that they wouldn't otherwise. The trick is carrying that weight and still being agile and quick. Guys like Willenbrock who aren't a 'skinny' 230lb can't get above 250-260 and maintain the mobility neccessary to play football. (or simply can't keep that weight on)

Wiley, Brown, Russell, Drakeford, Gray, Banks, Prioleau, Charleton, Midget, Bird, McCadam, Pile, Hall, Green, Fuller, Williams, Hamilton, Rouse, Flowers, Harris, Chancellor, Carmichael, Hosley, Fuller, Exum, Jarrett

Like everyone else here I was disappointed (to put it mildly) after the game. But here is what really worries me, assuming (yeah, yeah, assuming, I know) that for job security and general 'that is their job sort of thing', the coaches want to win every game so they put in the best players at each position, what does that say about our back-ups. Specifically I am talking about Quarterback position. I am not calling for Thomas to be replaced, hell, I have supported him since he started playing. To me he gives everything he has every time he steps on the field, I'm just wondering if he is the best we have, what happens when he leaves? I believe it was Tyrod that was pulled off his redshirt year because of the underperformance of the current Quarterback and put in to help the team. Does that mean we don't have that type of quarterback waiting in the wings now, if not then next year is going to be painful.

6-5, 10-1-1, 2-9, 3-8, 6-4-1, 6-5, 5-6, 2-8-1, 9-3, 8-4, 10-2, 10-2, 7-5, 9-3, 11-1, 11-1, 8-4, 10-4, 8-5, 10-3, 11-2, 10-3, 11-3, 10-4, 10-3, 11-3, 11-3, 7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 7-6, 10-4, 9-4..........

Self Scout = Fail.

Ha ha, true.
'Remember how I told you to do all of those things? Well, now I want you to do the opposite.'

Just watched a replay of the game. Duke beat us with the quarterback sneak, field position and interceptions. We pretty much shut down their passing game and limited their running backs. Our running game actually looked improved (going from horrible/non-existant to just bad). Missed field goals and interceptions killed us, especislly the one in the inzone. I think we were able to move up and down the field better than Duke on offense. Our D looked solid appart from letting the QB get away too often. But, mobile QB seem to give us headaches. I know I am sounding like CFB and CBF, but I think the better team lost too. Give them credit for 4 interceptions though, and capitalizing on our mistakes. Good for Duke, if they are getting better than the ACC is getting better in my opinion.

As well as Dadi's played, he's not as complete a player, or as seasoned as J.R. In my opinion, J.R. was the MVP of the defense heading into Duke. It's tough to head into any game without your best player, especially a senior

As soon as I couldn't find #42 on the sidelines this was my thought. Hopefully he will learn from his mistake and move forward. And hopefully Kyle and Brandon will be healed up for BC.

I think we're lucky in that no one thought to use Duke's defensive strategy before now. One of the goals of any defensive strategy is 'make the opponent's offense one-dimensional.' Well, we ARE one-dimensional already and that dimension is the short to midrange passing game. When Duke took that away early on, it not only challenged Logan to adjust his reads, it challenged Loeffler to lean on the running game. Duke made the right call.

Reality has a mighty pimp hand.