And remember, this depth chart came out after we'd lost 7 of the 11 starters from last year's defense during the offseason.
We have no defense because, well, frankly, we have no defense. I'm not sure that anything can be done to fix it over the last 2 games.
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I was talking to a Clemson grad about this earlier this morning. Excerpts from the conversation:
Clemson: "How did y'all get to be so bad?"
Me: "Well, we're on our 20/21 defensive starters of the year."
C (obviously dismayed): "Seriously? That's a lot."
Me: "Yeah, we've got like 7 freshmen playing D right now."
C (awestruck): "Holy shit."
Me: "I'm dead inside."
At least next year those freshmen will be sophomores. Which means something.
It only means something if they improve. You don't just 'get better' from experience; you have to learn from that experience, understand the mistakes you made, and correct them. The coaches have their work cut out for them this off season. Need to make a bowl more than ever now just to get those 15 extra practices.
Yes,and schedule a game after UVA
that they will be older.
Ask him how Dabo got all those all Americans to stick around. Baffling. Winning is attractive enough I guess.
$omehow, $omeway
What happened to Proctor? He was playing in place of House when I stopped watching at halftime (not out of anger, but it was just unhealthy to continue watching.)
He played a lot vs Pitt as did Diablo, mihota, Ashby and Quillen. That 2 deep is a little Bogus.
I saw this list out on social media this morning. I think it just shows players that were injured at one time or another this season - not necessarily season-ending injuries.
The take away is that we have not had the opportunity for even a consistent core of players that can grow up and learn together. We are almost starting from scratch each game moving players around and bringing in 2nd and 3rd stringers. I think we had five new starters on defense last Saturday.
This list doesn't even include the Mook and Adonis departures. You may be able to cross off Kumah at this point too.
There's plenty of blame to be distributed between bad luck, failed player execution, and poor coaching (which includes acquiring, developing, and deploying talent). Even though we've had some shit luck, I do think it's okay to be frustrated with the coaches' roster management. I'm not sure Farley should've been a DB, but he was moved there due to lack of depth. The failure to recruit quality (or really any) DT's has been discussed here many times, and it's the reason Mihota is playing out of position. Potentially burning QP's redshirt for a couple of snaps also falls into this category (note - I don't mind us using QP, but we should have a plan on how we use him, it doesn't feel like we do). I don't have a solution to offer, and I'm not suggesting anyone needs to be fired (although I wouldn't be disappointed with a new play caller), but something's gotta change next season.
What happened to Kumah??
I thought he got hurt at the end of the Pitt game? Didn't watch the game, just got a couple of texts about it towards the end.
Took a sucker elbow to the jaw by the POS safety from Pitt on the last play. He was coming across the middle and the Safety took about a 5 yard running start. Hit him while Kumah was looking back at Willis. Happened right in front of the official.
And the POS officials did nothing about it. I have the utmost contempt for the officiating in this league.
I know every conference thinks they have bad officials, but I feel like the ACC crews have been struggling since the 2000's. The BC game had subpar officiating as well.
ACC officiating is terrible, this sentiment is shared through all fan bases!
I don't know why it's so bad, but the ACC refs are HORRIBLE! From blatant missing calls that occur right in front of the refs to bullshit calls that should never have happened.
Drink!
Also doesn't include Jeremy Webb getting injured before the season even started either.
Also we lost C.J. Carrol
Everyone forgets we lost Alan Tisdale for the season before the season
Why are Ladler and Deablo crossed off? They both played yesterday
Both have missed games if I recall.
So did Hewitt and Walker. This list could/should look worse.
Dzansi, Ladler, Diablo, Mihota, and Belmar are all still playing, correct....?
Belmar is out with an unspecified injury, pretty sure Garbutt started against Pitt.
I stole it from someone on Discord, who stole it from someone on Twitter. Maybe I should have fact-checked it a bit more. At the very least, I don't think most of them are 100%.
These are depth charts for last year's WV game and Camping World Bowl.
we were only down 2 starters (Mihota and Terrell Edmunds) and as far as I can remember we didn't have any Defensive players bolt early for NFL before this year and we didnt kick any players off the team.
The fact that Jimmy Taylor was in the 2-deep at DT was a major redflag at that point.
Now, our entire depth chart is littered with "WTF is Jimmy Taylor doing in the 2-deep at DT?" moments.
Against Pitt, I said at least a dozen time "Who the hell is #41 and why is he on the field?!?"
To be fair, #41 wasn't even in the 3-deep to start the season. So yeah, the fact that he's playing is indicative of the problem.
41 is Jaylen Griffin.
He was recruited as a linebacker at 6-1 217. He's was a solid 3*. It looks like he's now up to 247 so I would assume that they are bulking him up to play DE.
There are so many nuances to what we are seeing on the defensive side of the ball.
1) Yes, youth and inexperience is a HUGE deal. It's one thing to have it at a few positions, but there are literally no veterans on the field anywhere (outside of Walker of course). There are execution issues because of it, communication issues because of it, and trust issues because of it. We cannot overstate the severity of this issue.
2) Remember, we've had quite a bit of turnover on that coaching unit, some as late as this past summer. I'm sure there are communication issues, coaching technique issues and all sorts of other things going on there. I don't think this can be overstated.
3) We simply failed at recruiting interior Defensive Lineman, period. I'm with French on this one though, I'm not totally sure going the JUCO route is a great long term fix.
This years defense hit the perfect storm. I do think it gets some better next year, but I think we are 3+ seasons away from Bud's crew getting back to true form.
if the 3 undersized DT's in this years recruiting class come in and start right away and are all americans then the defense will improve /s
This diagram should be exhibit A in the post season forensic of what happened this year. 7 guys lost after last year. Then 2 dismissed. Then Hill dismissed. Mihota not back all the way.
We effectively returned Ricky Walker and Reggie Floyd, who are two HUGE pieces of a successful defense, but not when you see 14 names crossed off the list above. I don't see Hewitt crossed off, I thought he was hurt yesterday?
For real, I think we are going to be dominant in QP's junior season.
I'm still drinking Kool-Aid out of this trough too.
Yes.
Is this akin to the Anne Hathaway leg cross for HOAT?
Almost
Wasting QP's red shirt will be a waste considering the plays he has been involved in. Dabo decides to sit a perfectly good QB and go with Trevor Lawrence. Is he that much better than QP? Was he better groomed to be able to play than QP? Saban did the same thing with Tua last year with everything on the line. Bottom line, IMO, QP does not look like he could take over the VT offense should something happen the Willis. If CJF wants to put in cannon fodder, use HH. He could easily run the plays QP runs and not jepardize the Red Shirt. QB is not the problem. Willis is playing his ass off.
1) 100% full agreement that Willis is playing his ass off
2) Lawrence and Tagavaialoa are otherworldly. Is this because they are just that good or is because they were trusted to take the reigns? A little trust and experience, along with a little bit of moxy, goes a long way. I'm not sure QP doesn't have this.
We haven't burned QP's redshirt yet, have we?
No, and he can still play 1 more game without burning it
exactly, so why the existential angst?
Apparently there's not enough to be unhappy about already
Mine comes from the fact that in one post-game presser, Fuente said that QP played because Cornelson "wanted him in there." So in he went. Right now my confidence isn't exactly high in this coaching staff, and with two games left, potentially three, and dare I say it four if we could somehow make it to a bowl game, then there seems to be plenty of opportunity for Cornelson to say he wants him in there in two of those matchups and QP's redshirt is burned so he can run another draw on 2nd and 9 at a questionable time in the game.
I say we start QP against LOLUVa just to make them freak out. Then I wanna see 4 TD passes and 2 TD runs from him, minimum
Right now our defense consists mostly of the players a typical team would play in the last minute or two of a game they have locked up by 28+ points, to get them experience and not RUTS. And even in those cases you'd probably leave in more than 2 more experienced guys just to make sure the wheels stay on. This is what we have now at the beginning of the game.
If they wanna do a change-up at QB, I'd rather bring in Hooker and run the zone read or a bootleg
I posted this in the Numb thread but thought it was germaine to this discussion too.
I have looked through the 247 Recruiting information regarding past VT classes since 2000. (I do not know how to embed and Excel sheet, sorry)
The failure to recruit highly regarded talent in the 2014, 2015, & 2016 classes was a disaster. These players are expected to be the main contributors for the 2018 Hokies.
Tim Settle (#15): NFL; Jerod Evans (#37): Undrafted Early Departure; Shai McKenzie (#41): Transfer; Raymond Minor (#42): Left Program.
The 2017 & 2018 classes do appear to be in the same caliber (or better) than the historic average since 2000. Hopefully the 2019 class finishes strong.
If you're looking for a dud class that wreaked havoc, look at 2012. Per 247, that was our best class ever. Not one of those guys were drafted; which hasn't happened in a VT class since 1989.
Your numbers aren't showing that, because those are just the "before" guesses of the talent evaluators.
2014 & 2015 produced ballers:
2014 was stocked with talented players; most of which contributed early (Shai, Travon, Isaiah Ford, Marshawn, Cam, Vinny, C.J. Reavis, Terrell Edmunds & Stro).
So who stuck around until they were seniors? Stro and Cam. (Apart from this list there were several OL who have stuck around and eventually made an impact the depth chart.)
While 2015 had more misses, we got a lot of production out of Settle, Yosh, Mook, Trevon, Tremaine, McLease, Adonis and Housh. Only Mclease, Yosh & Housh are playing out their college careers with us.
Likely the most talented member from the 2016 class played THAT season and left (Jerod Evans). And yet this is the most normal class attrition-wise.
2014 & 2015 represent two classes with a lot of contributors (good recruiting) but a metric-fuck ton of attrition. You've got some bad recruiting (attrition through conduct, performance); unpredictable factors (attrition through transfers) and fantastic recruiting (kids left early to get drafted; 2 of VT's 10 first round picks are in these two classes).
It's the attrition that's the problem from 2014 - 2016. It's a huge outlier. The talent has been there.
Uh...unless I'm missing something some of those guys are playing right now. Unless you are just going through and marking out everyone that missed at least a game.
UCF destroyed Pitts defense. Duke scored a bunch of points on Pitt. Syracuse moved up and down the field. Yeah the defense is killed with injuries. Why does our offense suck? No major injuries on that side of the ball... unless you think josh Jackson is the difference in scoring a bunch of points.. I don't
Agreed, excuses can be made for the D, which has been decimated two or three times over. The only explanations for offense is lack of talent (primarily RB), execution (see lack of talent), play design and play calling.
Actually we've had injuries on the OL that caused us to take hits there. Especially when you re-shuffle players out of position. And as we've seen with Farley playing DB or Floyd playing....wherever he plays this year - playing players out of position will impact you big time. Our starting OL from FSU where we played very solidly up front is certainly not there anymore. I think TSL said we've got 2 out of 5 of our OLs playing where they originally were supposed to from the beginning of the season.
Sorry. Not buying. What major injury have we had on OL? None. If vice wants to shuffle for the detriment of the offense that's on him and that's poor coaching. We have 18 scholarship OL and we only need about 7 that can play.. we have 3 seniors on the ol. That excuse is garbage WADR. Coach them up Vice.. or get out
1. @RT: Nijman's injury has carried over and isn't the same player he was before. There's a reason he moved to RT from LT.
2. @LG: Plantain was supposed to start and then got hurt. Smith is now in for him and he's a true Frosh. Plantain has now left the team
3. @LT: Darrisaw is a true frosh. He'll have ups and downs - nuff said
All in all: 3 of the 5 starting positions relative to last year are worse off.
Sure we have ppl in the pipeline but they are just as young and not ready. Again, you can't just throw a body in at OL and expect a high-level of play. You just can't do that at this level. It sucks to admit it, but we're extremely young at both line positions.
Planting just transferred to north Texas.. so nope not Orlando pace missing from the lineup. Is Nijman hurt or not? If he is hurt why don't we have someone to replace him ready to block in the ACC? Too much to ask? And Darrisaw went to Fuma and has been at VT 10 months and it's game 10 of the season.. sorry not buying those as a reason we couldn't block Pitt or GTs defense. Not buying. Lame excuses. 18 scholarship ol. Coach them Vice or go back to G5
Did you even read what I typed?
No, but in his defense he usually doesn't read before typing a response.
Dcwilson, probably:
Why do you say that? To be a tool? Or did I post something on an open forum you disagree with?
To be fair, he was just imitating your toolness. You reap what you sow.
Yes I read the excuses as to why we can't block anyone. 3 of the 5 positions different than last year... omg.. lol. These excuses are insane.
Just what I thought. You didn't read what I said.
lol who is the tool? I literally quoted a line from your post in my response. I read it. I disagree- that's what you don't like, so you revert to personal shots.
You actually didn't bother to read anything. And i'm done feeding your trollness.
And it's not a personal shot if I call you out for not reading something. You might want to check your sensitivities at the gate if you're doing to be such an internet tough-guy here on the boards.
I don't think you know what trolling means. And yes, please stop taking shots when I respond with a football take you don't like.
I'd say Josh Jackson was the starter for a reason.
Much has been made about the youth on D, but look at all the underclassmen on O, especially at the skill positions. I'd say that certainly plays a role
Sorry if you are a RS sophomore WR or RB and can't play, you can't play. Some upperclassman switch is not going to magically turn on at a skill position other than qb. Especially in this zone spread offense. Not buying that. PLENTY of experience on the VT offense.
They can play, as they have shown. The consistency is not there yet, however