Who wins: VTFB 2017 vs. VTFB 2018?

My son got me thinking about this as he waxed poetic yesterday on how much better our offense is this year than last year (an opinion I generally share, though perhaps not with such fervor).

I don't think I can argue against last year's defense carrying the day for the 2017 team, certainly more times than not. But I think it could get pretty interesting if VT18 played like they did against Duke or FSU.

Thoughts?
Go Hokies!

PS. I mostly hope VT18 beats everyone-else18 the rest of this season!

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

2018's strength on offense is not as good or consistent is 2017's strength on defense. 2017 wins easily.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Better question is, who do you take:

VT17 (-9.5) vs. VT18

I would take 2017 to cover easily if they're playing the current, current 2018 squad with Willis at QB. The defense would score a couple of times on errant Willis throws, and Stroman would house a punt.

Leonard. Duh.

With our playcalling?

2017

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

2017. Give me Cam's route-running on this secondary every single day.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

NASCAR is in Martinsville the same weekend. Do you go to this VT on VT game or to the Race?

All right. While we're still under a caution, I want you to go back out on that track and hit the pace car.

Hit the pace car?

Hit the pace car!

What for?

Because you've hit every other goddamned thing out there, I want you to be perfect!

Never been to a Nascar race anywhere. (Ducks, rolls, looks over shoulder.) I would go to the game and root for VT!

Toying with my own post, I wonder which VT-VT matchup I would be most interested to watch.

How about 1999 v. 2010? I think that would be a frickin epic battle!!

I'd throw peak 2003 and 2009, 2007, and 2005 into the convo as well.

2009 for example had max RMFW, less passing game but that had a lot to do with RMFW but all the same talent, plus a better defense than 2010.

With all due respect, I'm guessing you're under 30,

The only VT teams that would be within 2 TDs of the 1999 team IMO are 2000 and (maybe) 2004.

The 1999 team led the nation in scoring offense AND scoring defense, and was full of future NFL players. It literally had no weaknesses.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

The only team close to '99 would have been 2000. Similar offense, but no Corey Moore on defense. Every other VT team is on a full tier lower than the Vick teams.

2007 defense could make an arguement as could 2005. Both of those teams were fuggin loaded too

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

You may have a point on the defensive side of the ball, but those '05 and '07 teams had Stinespring offenses. Give me the '99 Hokies -10.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Definitely, agreed. How about this:

Create a "Stinespring All-Star Offense" choosing any 20 players from '02-'12, and couple it with a single Bud Foster defense from the same period (probably '07?).

Who wins between that and VT99? I feel the Stinespring O would have an overall talent advantage, balanced out by subpar offensive coaching, so it might be fairly close.

Given our historical issues stopping a mobile QB, I wouldn't bet against MV7 torching any of our defenses. He was that good.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Not saying he's as good, but TT would also tear up the '99 defense, not quite as well on the ground but almost certainly better through the air. MV7 was blessed with god-like arm strength but was known to make a few poor decisions throwing the ball that year, while TT had mostly gotten past those issues by 2010.

Couple 2010 TT with 2007 Eddie and Josh Morgan, 2011 Jarrett Boykin, and 2003 Ernest Wilford, plus 2011 DW4, 2003 KJ, and pre-hamstring-injury RMFW out of the backfield, and overall I feel like that's a much more potent combo than MV7, Suggs, and Andre Davis. At the very least it's a lot more to cover.

The 99 defense would own Tyrod

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Indeed. Michael Vick was often wont to say in interviews that the hardest defense he played against in 1999 and 2000 was the VT defense in practice.

Leonard. Duh.

WIthout looking at any actual data, I'd say our issues with mobile QBs have really been only in the last 5 or 6 years. Prior to that we punished all QBs, mobile or otherwise.

In my non-expert opinion, our decline in LB play the past decade or so has led to that specific weakness. Man I miss Vince Hall, Xavier Adibi and Cody Grimm.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I think it really comes down to the rise of the spread offenses and read option QB's being more common. Our D was very effective by having extra defenders at the point of attack and multiple pass coverage schemes to confuse QBs. Now it's basically 1v1 across the field, and bringing an extra guy over for a pass coverage double team or bringing a linebacker or Safety on a blitz leaves someone obviously wide open. Even zone defenses end up being 1v1 most of the time because the O floods the zone with enough receivers that all the defenders end up matching up 1v1

I know it's not quite that simple, and there are certainly still opportunities for blitzes and complex coverages, but that's kind of how it shakes out. Athletic QB 1v1 with an LB or a DE, or optioning that LB or DE creates a lot of opportunities for QB yardage that didn't exist with I-form style offenses.

IMO- 2005 was Beamer's best team outside the 99 team. When Marcus was focused, the offense was legit, and the defense had NFL players all over it and was just nasty. FSU played mind tricks on us, and Miami just whipped us... we recovered to whip a damn good louisville team in the bowl. that was a great VT team.

Oddly enough, three of our higher ranked finishing teams, didn't win their conference in 2000, 2005, and 2009.

We were just a step better in the Louisville game.

Depth was a weakness, FSU rotating Dlinemen out all the time was a huge mantra that Bud took away from the game. He wanted the depth to do that because he saw how big an affect it had on the offense (not named Vick)

Yep. Depth. That was about the only weakness the 1999 team had.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Thanks for the complime...oh wait, I'm not buying alcohol.

Graduated May of 99 and was in person at the Sugar Bowl.

I hear what you're saying. I actually reviewed the 2010 roster before posting and part of my excitement for the 1999 v 2010 game is seeing Corey Moore chase around a senior year Tyrod plus Evans, Williams and Wilson.

I think it would be a pretty spectacular game.

Corey Moore and Engelberger would have abused that 2010 offensive line. Andrew Lanier is the man but Corey Moore off the edge might have been an issue for him. Only real question is, is 1999 Bud Foster limited to 1999 defensive strategies or does he know modern day concepts? Because if he doesn't implement a QB spy against the 2010 team then yea maybe they'll be able to have some success. Also spread offenses weren't as popular back then so the 2010 teams might have been able to find some opportunities with linebackers matched up on slots/running backs.

Bud/Wiles 2020

Hahaha, sorry. Somehow I missed you mentioning your son in the original post.

You're right, that's a lot of talent on the 2010 team. I just think 99 was too loaded for any other VT team to handle. But cool off-week topic!

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

The 2007 VT defense would keep the game interesting until someone broke Tyrod in half and Glennon had to try and throw.

Actually, I'd argue the 2007 team that finished the season would hang with the 1999 team. Not win, but hang.

As for the 2003 team? That team was just waiting to implode and finally did. Too many "me first" players, the fan base split on Marcus vs Bryan Randall (sounds familiar), boosters demanding Marcus play...

I'd be willing to put the 1992 team against the 2003 team because the 2003 team would probably fall apart the moment things turned bad against them and then eek out a win at the end because of superior talent. Maybe.

That '92 team was so unlucky, but they were a solid group of guys. I'll always remember being a freshman having to go to Squires to do something class related before the school year. Maybe register for classes? Maybe change requests? I can't remember exactly, but I remember there were tons of students in lines at Squires and I jumped into one without a good idea of what I was supposed to be doing. There were a couple of guys in line in front of me and I interrupted them asking if they could clue me into everything I was supposed to do. Without hesitation, those two helped me out and we even hung out together in Squires for a half hour after they walked me around from table to table.

I got their names, but nothing really registered with me until a few weeks later when I was at a game and I saw those two...Dwayne Thomas and Vaughn Hebron. Just solid, upstanding guys.

Bruh, he just said in his post that he was talking to his son about this question lol. That would be either one very cool 6 year old or he is way older than 30.

2017, easily. The defense could definitely hang with 2018s offense, but there's not a chance in hell that this 2018 secondary would stop my boy Cam Phillips.

I don't know what everyone is recalling from 2017, but I remember a putrid offense, that by the end of the season was 1 dimensional, and bad at that 1 dimension. 10 points against an epicly bad uva team, kinda bad. Gimme the 2018 team at the end of this season vs the 2017 team at the end of last year.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

The 1999 team was completely loaded on both sides. The offensive line just mowed dudes over especially when you go back and watch the Temple Rutgers Akron type games. They were dominant, they went to the Natty for a reason (not easy to do) within 2 scores is correct, at best

Sean

UMBC!

We put the K in Kwality

The only way this would go in favor of the 2018 team would be if we didn't lose the defensive players early to the NFL this offseason.

Settle
Tremaine
Terrell
Alexander (maybe)

We would have a much stronger defense with those pieces still in place.

Isn't this a red shirt vs stormtrooper philosophical question?

What color uniforms is each team wearing?

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Based on the bad injury news we've had recently, I sincerely hope both teams are wearing yellow non-contact jerseys.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

I'm just sayin, judging by historical record... Orange tops would beat AME.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

2018VT in Orange jerseys would lose to the 2017VT scout team.

"We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behavior" Stephen M.R. Covey

“When life knocks you down plan to land on your back, because if you can look up, you can get up, if you fall flat on your face it can kill your spirit” David Wilson

Asking da real questions

Not that I'm rooting for it, but if this game happened, would this spark a "Hatin' On Fuente" thread?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Fuente schedules his own team to ensure the 1-0 mantra...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

2017- easily... Settle/Tremaine/Adonis/Mook/Hill/Stroman and co. would shut Jackson/Willis/Hazelton down much more than UNC or Duke did this year for example.

This will be a much more interesting question next year, 2019 vs 2017. I think the step back the defense has taken far outweighs any steps forward we have had on offense.

exit light

Depends if the 2017 team is secretly ODU

*ducks*

The 2017 defense would strangle the 2018 offense. The 2017 offense would move the ball on the 2018 defense. Wide receiver is the only definitive position group 2018 has the edge with. You could argue running backs too, but that's debatable.

You could argue running backs too, but that's debatable.

Nah this year's running backs are better. Peoples is healthy this year and it's becoming clear that he's our best back.