So VT is rumored to be asking ECU for some payment for cancelling

What do we think of this? Many ECU fans are bent out of shape and criticizing VT and Whit on social media. My opinion is that ECU should adhere to the contract/cancellation terms. Yes, the hurricane is horrible and people in NC lost their lives, I get that. But that does not mean VT doesn't care about those people or is insensitive by asking that the contract be adhered to. Thoughts?

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.


If there isn't a clause for hurricanes, or state-of-emergency, or acts of God, then they should pay. Pretty simple and black and white really. Screw what they "think" and their opinion.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The contract term is "force majeure".

But does that really apply in this case?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

yes and no. ECU would say it does, VT would say it doesn't. Arguments can be made on both sides. Ultimately, force majeure is near impossible clause to use to get out of a contract. If VT wanted to, they probably could make ECU pay (although would it be worth the PR and attorney fees?)

🦃 🦃 🦃

I haven't seen Arkansas State getting any bad PR for suing Miami for money.

It's Time to go to Work

That's because Arkansas State gets no PR.

It's also a matter of the "little guy" suing the "big guy". When it comes to the VT@ECU game, we have the opposite scenario. Any action along the lines of VT suing ECU over their decision will cost the school more than $500K in bad PR. It would be a decade or more before we could recruit anywhere near Eastern NC. Is the residual cost worth the cash (cash that we're not guaranteed to get, even if we sue)?

That just plays into the idea that we shouldn't be playing ECU even more. Just because we're the bigger school, we let them run all over us and let them do whatever they want, contracts be damned?

Well except that this isn't a "contracts be damned" situation. We can enforce the contract (if it contains appropriate language), but we have to weigh the $ from exercising our right vs the longer term impact of public reaction (including the reaction of future recruits). It's no different from our guaranteed freedom of speech. I'm protected from being arrested, but I have to weigh saying something ignorant and outrageous from the longer term benefits of being fired from my job.

Whether or not we should play ECU is a completely separate issue, in my mind. There is 0 upside to beating them and a huge down side from losing to them. That same benefit-cost calculation that I mention regarding the contract should be used in deciding to play them.

I'd rather not give in to the little guy just for the sake of them being the little guy, because that will set a precedent that they will exploit in any and all future matters.

I'm sure both universities have great attorneys on retainer, but I would see them announcing they weren't coming before Tech canceled the game, and then traveling despite the hurricane would negate the claim that they couldn't travel due to safety.

Only applies if the event prevents them from fulfilling the contract. They were able to leave the area and go to Florida to honor a contract to play there, so they were never prevented from honoring the contract with VT.

It was the responsibility of the hosting team to cancel the game. Whit was going to make a decision on Wednesday. They decided to jump the gun and cancel therefore bringing the penalty clause into effect. They owe the money, Tech is losing far more than ECU is required to pay by the contract.

Tech is losing far more than ECU is required to pay by the contract.

Exactly, Tech is going to lose millions in revenue due to this cancellation. Though I'm not sure that $500k (or whatever cancellation fee is called for by the contract) is worth the blow to our PR, since it is such a drop in the bucket compared to the actual losses.

Plus Blacksburg and the surrounding areas rely heavily on revenue from game days

"We were at the pinnacle, and we did it for years," Foster says. He pauses, nods, takes a deep breath. "And I did it with the best guy in the business."

I think whatever "clause" that was in the contract they broke it when they travelled to Orlando which was just as "safe" a travel trip as going to Blacksburg. When they made a football decision instead of a safety decision to allow their football team more time to prepare for a conference game with the best team in their conference. So yeah I have no issue with us asking for payment from them. I understand the damage done in Greenville and am sympathetic to those people. but if your ryme doesn't match your reason then you gotta pay the fiddler.

#Bapn ain't EZ

Wanna win put boobie in! Let boobie spin coach!

I don't care what their fans feel about it, its better for them to be mad so that we can all come together and cancel this series.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

What's the source/reference on this? It was speculated by reporters Tech could pursue, but nothing definitive was announced or reported.

I doubt he has one, as whit has talked about possibly playing the game in December if it is needed. So any payment talk would not occur until after that possibility is eliminated

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

ANOTHER reason we must win the Coastal, then


I dont know, I can really imagine lots of excitement around a December matchup between 7-4 VT and 2-9 ECU...

But we will be 11-0...


Any info on how pirates handle snow?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

My research indicates they go a little overboard.

Especially in blizzaaaaaaaaaaaaaards.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed


Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It's unofficial stuff floating around amongst high-level donors. Nothing you could dig into and get confirmation on.

In other words, unsubstantiated rumor.

Correct. Which is why *dcwilson40 changed the title of the post*

Are we giving DC a pass for not having a solid source to back this up? /s

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

0 sources but a lot of comments... would that be considered an effective post even if not an efficient one?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Effective at what, exactly?

Saying outrageous things to stir outrage is hardly uncommon. Even telling the truth often has just enough spin to get you to react. Most media is out to push your buttons.

I wouldn't call it efficient or effective unless your goal is to driving web traffic or whip people into a frenzy.

Connecting on the occasional big pass play by catching the defense off guard from constantly defending the triple option?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

And that, children, is how a TKP Bingo Square is born.

I'm pretty sure that this thread has nothing to do with Georgia Tech.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

You really think it's "outrageous" that VT will try to get some remittance from ECU on this whole deal? "outrageous" that a settlement of some type will be reached for them canceling this game? If so, you are probably going to be shocked and/or disappointed here.

Do you have a link to this? I didn't think we'd actually try to collect. Its a horrendous PR look even if its completely backed up by the contract. The waters haven't even receded yet.


Go Hokies

Go Falcons

Nope. Contracts is contracts. We could always turn around and gift it back, but they should pay unless there is a specific clause that says they don't have to.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Agreed. I didn't like the trigger-happy way Whit aired the laundry on Twitter. But his responsibility isn't to the residents of Eastern NC.

ECU needs to pay it back and be thankful that we signed such a good home and home (from their perspective)...if they give Whit an excuse to end it, I'm betting he takes it.

Agreed. If Whit, et al, have the authority to donate the money to victims of the hurricane I'm all for it. But the ECU athletic fund is not a victim.

Good take the university's money and donate a portion to storm relief aid. It's not like taking money from ECU is taking supplies away from the people of N Carolina

Recruit Prosim

I can't find anything about this anywhere. Is this actually happening?

I haven't used this kind of meme in years....

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Maybe we can say keep your money and lets never play again unless we happen to meet in a bowl game?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"


Good God, how shitty of a season would we need in order to draw a bowl so low that ECU is the best available team?

I'm thinking 4-8.

Click here to destroy wall.

Sources otherwise this didn't happen.

I feel like Whit is just trolling ECU so hard that they'll just get pissed off and cancel the series and we will never have to see them again.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Still waiting on that link dcwilson40....

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Have heard're not going to see anything official until the final decision is made. And yes, it's RUMINT.

RUMINT is rumor.

Not admissible as fact in the court of TheKeyPlay.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'd have at least waited for the hurricane to have stopped threatening households, and the floods to subside, so from this judge it's a...

Discuss privately, OK. Post on the internet with no source? Nah. Three months from now, nobody would have cared.

Discuss privately, OK. Post on the internet with no source? Nah.

Absolutely. The internet is no place for un-fact-checked source material. I don't know where anybody would get the idea that that would be okay.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Bruh...this is the internet lmao. What internet have you been using? Speculation on sourceless rumors is a staple. And this isnt the first occurance on this site.

I'm talking about The Key Play here, not just the internet-at-large. I see it as above the cut.

And while we dabble in rumors, creating them out of whole cloth in a situation like this gets a thumbs down from me. There were some bad optics here, so I prefer not to encourage more of it.

I'll stick by my vote.

Wait, are you suggesting that dcwilson40 created this rumor himself? That's a bold claim.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

All I'm saying is that it's unsourced and puts the school in a bad light.

Optics are worth considering. This is little stuff.

Trust me, I did not make this up at all... There is talk among people in Blacksburg about a "settlement" or agreement. that's all i was trying to say.

I believe you, and there's nothing inherently wrong with the topic.

My concern was mostly timing and optics.

I hate this idea that we have to be ambassadors on this website

Recruit Prosim

Not just on the website.

It's just what happens when you belong to a cause bigger than yourself. Like VT football. You represent.

But wouldn't it be nice to have somewhere to speak candidly and honestly about topics we care deeply about?

Recruit Prosim

You do have a place. It's called "offline". Otherwise, the general public will see what you say and assume that your comments are typical of the entire fanbase. Welcome to the internet.

the general public opposing fans will see what you say and assume that your twist and/or misquote your comments are typical to fit their preconceived notion of the entire fanbase


"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

Fair. Also correct.

I would get fully dipped to be allowed to have opinions other than just cheerfully optimistic

Recruit Prosim

TKP is not a cut above. I know some members like to think so, but TKP is susceptible to all the same vices as other sites.

Yeah, it's not like this is running on the WaPo or NYT site, or even BR or some other site. Just in here. And the ECU fan is the one that's butthurt and tweeting about the $$$, not Hokies.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

In fact, the sanctimonious attitude of some around here actually might make TKP a cut below. At least other site accept what they are.

I don't even think that there is anything inherently wrong with any of these topics. The community regulates itself and clearly people want to discuss this rumor whether it is unsubstantiated or not.

I'd still say TKP is a cut above. It's the self-regulation that makes it so. People more or less behave themselves, the quality of the posts are generally high, and the mods don't have too heavy a hand.

What I was mostly concerned about was the initial wording, which made it seem a little too official, and the timing of it. In my opinion, bringing the topic up while people are still in the middle a natural disaster seems unnecessary for a university whose motto is "Ut Prosim". If it's just us chickens, fine, but if it's connected to the administration, they need to show better awareness.

Maybe once upon a time when the userbase was small and general tendencies were easily managed. But TKP has grown quite large and the community is no different from other similar sports communities of comparable size.

Note, I'm not talking about the quality of content here. I'm talking about the users. Just because we are hokie fans doesn't make us any different from other fanbases. We are all a large homogeneous group.

And come on man, Ut Prosim lol? No one gives a damn about that when shooting the shit on an internet forum.

So, here at TKP, we are all thinking:

But in reality we might be looking at our own navel.
OK, sounds like most people...

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Yeah, no. I get along with and like more people in this online community than any others I'm a part of, by far.

Yes, even you, KK. That might not be a deserving metric in your eyes, but it's good enough for me.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

We all mostly get along with one another because this is a forum with a very specific common interest among it's members. People getting along doesn't make this a unique site. That's just human nature to congregate among others with similar backgrounds and interests.

I get along and enjoy most of y'all's company as well. I just don't really think that this site is much different from any other in terms of a standard of user.

The optics on this would be awful unless the university makes a donation to a hurricane relief fund, and even then we still just look like we're taking money from a university impacted by a hurricane.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

From what I can see, aside from some rain, wind, and mild flooding, the extent of damage/impact in Greenville, NC was downed trees, closed roads and 774 people lost power.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I wish the facts were all that mattered in this. All ECU has to do is say we're being mean after NC got hit my Florence and they'd win the PR battle regardless of what actually happened in Greenville.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Very true.

whether there was a breach of contract and whether force majeure applies needs to be looked from the perspective at the time the decision was made and the surrounding circumstances, not after the fact. It doesn't matter what actually happened to Greeneville or Blacksburg, what matters is what happened and what was known leading up to and at the time of the breach (i.e., Tuesday).

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True... but lets also not ignore the fact they pretty much said "we're not traveling as our primary need is to help support our family and community" while boarding the 737 en route to Orlando.

I don't care that the game was canceled. From what we knew on Tues last week, Wilmington through Raleigh and upwards to the NC/Va border were expected to get hammered. There were a couple reports saying upwards of 15-20 inches of rain and 80mph winds for Raleigh, which undoubtedly would have made Greenville worse. And had this storm held true to the line that was predicted up until Thurs with it stalling off Bald Head Island instead of making its way up past Wilmington, the flooding that happened in New Bern would have happened in Greenville. They're lucky they weren't hit harder.

I do care that they played us to be the villain here when they were talking out both sides of their mouth. And now, multiple individuals from that base are now dredging up 4/16 to continue piling on. Its sickening.

This series needs to end. Its not worth it anymore.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

It isn't even true that the forecast was for them to get hammered on Tuesday. The models turned in a positive direction on Tuesday before the decision was announced. They do not even have that leg to stand on.

They do not even have that leg to stand on.

I see what you did there

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

yea, I agree with that overall sentiment. It's a hard argument for ECU to make that traveling to Blacksburg was going to be that unsafe that it needed to be avoided completely. While Blacksburg was in the predicted storm travel path, hard to win an argument that it was going to be "unprecedentedly" unsafe.

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Updated the title of the post. Sorry if it came across that I had inside info of some sort.

I don't even think there's a rumor, unless I've missed it.

VT beat writers did mention during the week that VT *could* go after the $500K but I haven't seen anything suggesting VT is considering it.


Here's *a* tweet, in which another ECU mouth breather makes a comparison between a game being cancelled and 4/16 and also lacks in reading comprehension:

And the guy he thinks is his source, didn't even say that:

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

When Ben Swain comes out as the voice of reason, you've done effed up, son.

I ended up blocking all of these douche canoes on Twitter.

Fuck ECU. Seriously Fuck ECU. I'm tired of 4/16 being thrown in our face like we owe them something because they wrote us a get well card after 32 of our students and staff were gunned down in cold blood. No, fuck this I'm so not here for any of that bullshit.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Props my man.. damn

ECU fans openly mocked the shooting to my face in Greenville, which is literally the only time an opposing fan-base has done so that I've witnessed. They're the worst fans I've ever interacted with.

I typed up several replies to that fucking moron and deleted them after deciding just to block him.

I'm not here for casually bringing up my friend's murder to get Twitter likes.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I couldn't hold back, and had to reply. That kind of attitude needs to be called out, its absolute horse shit. You lose any moral high ground you think you have when you throw something like that in someone's face. Its like a batshit relative who buys you a gift and then holds it over your head for the rest of your life expecting you to go out of your way any time they need help because "don't you remember"... Except this 'gift' was a token donation and a moral pat on the back after the single largest school shooting in US history (until that point, at least)

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

I think what you mean is fuck the individual who sent the errant tweet making some sort of comparison there.

Someone at ECU made a decent gesture at our time of need. It's poor form to paint them with the same brush as a twitter moron.

This. You can't just make generalizations about the whole university and their feelings based on a few Twitter trolls. I certainly would hope people don't do the same about us based on some of our recent football tweets. Also, we don't know if that was a "moral pat on the back" or not. I'm sure the administration was thankful for the gesture. They didn't have to donate anything to begin with...

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

But its just so eeeeeeeaaaaasssssyyyyy.

People dont like to think about things on an individual levels. Its "my group" vs "his group."

Otherwise how else are you gonna let your true feeling show without guilt?

Get out of here with your reasoning and logic and let me hate ECU fans in peace.

It wasn't just this one tweet, there have been many. And not once did I see anyone outside of obvious VT related accounts replying with "maybe you shouldn't bring that up".

And living down here in NC, believe me, its not an isolated mindset.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

One of these days everyone will know what I've been sayin' is the damn truth. Twitter is evil.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Twitter can turn even the smartest of individuals into morons.

Naw, it doesn't do that. If they weren't morons, they wouldn't be using twitter in the first place. /s
All sarcasm aside though, I don't like it because it allows those morons a voice and also connects them up with other like minded morons. Even really smart folks can be morons if allowed or encouraged.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I'm typically a mild mannered individual and can give/take trash talk as what it is, trash talk

but the minute anyone even utters the word "4", before they even reach the "16" they see my face go from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde and immediately know to shut up.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I've had anOSU and "SEC" fans do it. The anOSU fan said while I'm on a hospital elevator with a patient "is it safe to get on here, you wearing a VT hat, you might shoot up the place".

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

My response would have been "not now..."

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

mine would have been Go Fuck Yourself!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Guessing you had to weigh the cost of your job and an assault & battery charge against how good that punch would have felt.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I can't tell you what my first though was because I think I raged over for a second, I remember my partners hand on my elbow whispering "don't do anything crazy"

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yeah fuck those guys. Comparing some heavy rain that everyone saw coming for weeks to what VT dealt with. Fuck those guys. I hope all these people posting this shit get called out and handed their ass. We should give them back whatever the fuck they gave us and tell them we don't want their fucking charity.

$100k I believe...So we'll take $400k to make it even. And donate to a hurricane fund, which will win the PR campaign and make them look like the whiners they are.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Well I don't know about "win", but it'll reduce the estimated damage.

Waho's suck
Uva swallows

Did they not donate the entire game check (which would have been substantial considering their athletic department budget) to the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund?

The Dude Abides

I'm feel certain that whatever they did was a decent gesture and well-meant.

Let's not get caught up in the Twitter nonsense-universe.

Yeah, it really makes any sympathy or support they expressed seem incredibly disingenuous if they use it as their trump card that we owe the world something. Totally agree with you here, ECU can go kick rocks as far as I'm concerned. I hope this series is ultimately cancelled.

If cancelling the series isn't in the cards, just make ECU come to Blacksburg next year Or let us cancel one (or both) of the last 2 trips to ECU and call it even.

I don't have to take this abuse from you, I've got hundreds of people dying to abuse me.


Seems like they could come to some kind of reasonable arrangement without everyone feeling like they got the shaft.

I like this. Home schedule is boring enough next year as it is. May as well sprinkle in ECU and hope for a skirmish or two.

This would be terrible PR for Virginia Tech, and I personally think this rumor needs to end here.

How many millions of dollars did ECU cost VT by cancelling?

Tech can prove damages either way. I would like to see us make the game up just for the sole fact Tech football needs the revenue.

I'm more of a fan for making ECU donate $250K to hurricane relief. The university is fine but the area could use the help.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I think we should make an arrangement between us. Forcing another university to donate to charity would also be poor form.

I like the other plan suggested that we make an adjustment in the series.

I'd be fine with more of a situation where Whit says "Hey, we want to hold you to the contract because you pulled your trigger way too early and left VT out to dry. Instead of the bad PR/grudges, how about you send that money to relief so both ECU & VT win?"

EDIT: in other words, not forcing ECU, but offering them the opportunity to take a high road.

I hate to say this at the risk of being torn apart here, but tbh I don't think Greenville even got hit that hard...

Yes I know it could have and that's why they cancelled the game, but it's not like the town is in shreds and we're asking them to pay up.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I mentioned this actually above, if what I've read from numerous news sources, you are not incorrect.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

The one person I know who lives in Greenville (he's actually ECU faculty) didn't even lose power during the storm.

Blacksburg Saturday got very minimal rain. A few hours of that mist bs is all.

I don't know what a Hokie is but God is one of them (excluding JMU/ODU)- Lee Corso

If they can Go to Florida and practice for their game this weekend. Then honoring their contract shouldn't be a issue. Pay up, Shut Up or Quit playing the series ! I have gone to these games for years, Home and Away.. ECU it's Time to pay..

Jack R.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Literally perfect.

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the added cost to their budget to book 50 or so hotel rooms in Orlando for an extra 10 days or so. I bet the added hotel and food cost would easily be $100k.

ECU forfeited/spent $350k on this decision without even factoring in whether VT will go after the additional money.

For the record, this is from ECU's website.

East Carolina University Police Department officers and facilities services report limited effect on campus from Hurricane Florence with small branches and leaves down and localized street flooding. Greenville officials have also reported a limited effect on the city. The Tar River is expected to crest below flood stage on Monday, and the city has noted it does not anticipate needing to evacuate any residences adjacent to the river.

small branches and leaves down and localized street flooding

So your basic summer storm damage.....

Sounds like my house. In Richmond. Fucking yesterday.

Hope you're okay man, that was intense. It danced around us fortunately.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

We're all good, thanks for asking. Couple branches down and some pretty crazy flash flooding but no serious damage for us. But yeah you're right that was intense for a few hours. At first it was exciting but it got scary real quick.

Talking heads will talk. If you have to resort to appealing the moral high ground, you don't have it. Seriously, this is why I hate Twitter. It gives these kinds of ignoramuses a podium and pedestal when they should really just shut their mouths.

Make next year game a VT hime game and be done. That way local business effectively gets reimbursed as well with an additional home game next year.

"with all due respect, and remember I’m sayin’ it with all due respect, that idea ain’t worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin’ it on" - Ricky Bobby

I guess you mean home game for VT, and I agree. That would be the right thing all around.

ECU probably won't want to agree to that, but that's where the $500K comes in as leverage.

None of it's even necessary as discussion until they decide definitively not to reschedule the game.

Considering how ECU donated the first game payout after the shooting to the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund (if I remember the specifics correctly), I say let this one go and pay it back in kind.

I am not comparing a mass shooting to trying to be proactive and cancelling a game, I am just looking at the two events. ECU's program showed a lot of class after that event in donating the game money (I disagree with the token gesture being hollow as some on this board seem to think).

Other then some money, what it to be gained by getting the amount back? Is there no other way to do this amicably that makes VT look better?

The Dude Abides

Also a reasonable gesture.

Definitely some errant tweets were made, and in the mean time, this needs to get fixed.

I think at the time had we received ECU's kind gesture (and it was very kind) with a caveat that said they can back out of any future contracts should they choose without penalty we would have said "thanks but no thanks."

I'm not a gambler, but this game cancellation had me thinking - how much would it suck if you bet the over on wins this season and we finish half a win below?

If we're a half game under after the UVA game, it means we're almost certainly not in the ACCCG and will likely reschedule the ECU game for the first Saturday in December.

This happened to a friend of mine (VT alum) who always bets the college win totals. He's bet the over on LSU the previous two years....and got screwed both times. In other words, canceled games do not cause the season win total to be adjusted when you're cashing out. I've always hated this bet as it takes a few months to find out if you win or lose and usually the juice is expensive.

Any book that's worth its salt makes season win total wagers contingent upon the full schedule being played, that's how I've always seen it done.

Then I just lost $10 at the Westgate sportsbook.

No I don't think so. Either the team wins more games or it doesn't. You aren't getting a refund because of a game cancellation IMO

Isn't that why it's called "gambling"?

So, the PR's a bunch of Whiny ECU fans complaining on twitter. When does that matter? Or move the needle? Or affect how VT approaches their next game against someone that is NOT ECU. Screw em. Bad PR??? Hahahahahaha. That's a joke right? IF they breached the contract (and I don not have that info to say yes or no,) they should pay. If that brings bad PR, then it's those slinging the PR and listening to said horse hockey that have issues.

Is Michigan getting railed by the media for cancelling with us in 2020? How about Wisconsin? I haven't heard anything, and we had a why would making ECU uphold the contract terms set up bad PR on our end? I don't get that. Twitter b!tches will be twitter b!tches, but they don't tell me how to think or feel. But I don't see any bad PR coming our way if upholding the contract terms is what occurs.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

The bad PR comes from the fact that we'd be forcing ECU to pay us because of a decision they made supposedly in the interest of the safety of their players. Makes us look like heartless assholes, trying to make a quick buck off of a hurricane. Doesn't matter that the cancellation cost us millions.

The Michigan cancellation is different, since they (A) followed the terms of the contract and paid the cancellation fee, and (B) gave plenty of notice so that we could find another opponent and minimize our loss in revenue. Obviously a home game against MTSU is worth a lot less than a home game against Michigan (we could probably charge an extra $50 or so per ticket), but it'll still likely be a sellout and we'll still get concessions revenue and the local businesses will still get their expected uptick in sales.

You stated it...the Michigan one is different because "followed the terms of the contract and paid the cancellation fee." So why would we not make ECU pay it if that's the terms of the contract? Doesn't matter why...contract terms are what they are. And, let's be honest, the travel to VT from ECU is prob in that neighborhood with everything considered.

Ok, so a step further. We all know this series will be played in September just about EVERY is what it is. And both schools have been affected by hurricanes in the past. If ECU cannot have the foresight to put a clause in the contract in regards to this, eff em. That's why you pay a lawyer in the first place, right.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

You were comparing this to the Michigan cancellation. Yes, it's different, so different that it isn't even relevant to the conversation.

This whole time, my point of view has been thus:

- ECU cancelling the game cost VT millions of dollars in revenue
- The contract likely provides a cancellation fee of an order of magnitude less, so it almost certainly won't cover all but a very small portion of the lost revenue
- There would be bad PR from "penalizing" a team that was affected by a natural disaster, regardless of how little their school was actually affected
- In the Twitter age, where public perception is swayed based on hot-takes and surface-deep analysis, this bad PR would likely spread further and faster and be more harmful than just eating the cancellation fee

Therefore, the situation sucks, and there isn't much we can do about it.

Sorry I think thins would be a tempest in a teapot. And would blow over in all of a week. Probably quicker.

I just came here for "tempest in a teapot".

Nicely done.

Leonard. Duh.

Honestly, the right call was made in the end. In order for ECU to play this game they would have had to travel north to Blacksburg and then after the game, they would have to do one of the following:

  • Return to Greenville so the equipment and uniforms could be cleaned, fixed and repacked.
  • Clean and fix remotely (at VT Equipment's facilities?) and drive directly to Orlando.
  • Pack a second set uniforms (the VT game was the white out, so would ECU pack both the purple and white uniforms?) and go straight to Orlando.

In all of the scenarios, they would have to drive back south after the rains hit where portions of major roads had been flooded. DC had travel alerts to not even attempt to drive to NC as late as Monday.

Both athletic departments could have handled this better in terms with communicating with each other and with the public - but I think we just let this one go.

why do you think they'd be driving to Orlando? This is an FBS football program we are talking about here. They would have been flying from Roanoke to Orlando.

Correct, they would have been flying from Roanoke to Orlando. They didn't drive from Greenville to Orlando. Tech would have been accommodating to them for cleaning/repair of equipment if they had made the decision to come early and stay a day later.

The equipment still has to be driven. This ain't Optimus Prime.

Yup. Equipment is always driven. VT would have allowed them to use our laundry machines.

Fun fact: Up until like 2015, VT would rent a small box truck with no graphics and our GA equipment managers would drive it to their destinations. BC and Miami were pretty much the only locations that we would hire a driver. Even after that we still rented the truck for the season when we first put on the graphics. I am not sure what we do now with Fuentes, but I hope that we have finally purchased a trailer and hopefully purchased a permanent truck to drive it. My high school marching band owned a semi and trailer. It was absolutely bush league that we never bought our own semi and trailer.

I don't think I saw that. Hopefully we do it own it. It was just ridiculous that all we used was a 26' rented box truck for so long when smaller non P5 teams as full length trailers.

We had this for the last few of years of Beamer's tenure.

Edit: ah, I see that you have already commented on this on a previous thread:

hokiebuzz | 2 years 7 months # ^

It was just a season long rental that we put a wrap on from the past couple seasons.

They own the trailer sort of, it was partially donated I heard. And still have to rent tractor or rely on alumni owned or fan owned trucking company.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club


Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.


I77 is open, was open yesterday (Monday), and as far as I know, was never closed. Driving the truck to Orlando from Bburg might take 3-4 more hours than usual but nothing unreasonable.
I'm ok they cancelled, but their decision was a football decision to prioritize this week's conference game over the game with us. They may have had to stay in Blacksburg until Wed/Thurs before flying to Florida but this was never a player safety decision. It was a football, and only a football, decision.

FWIW, the ECU athletic department is broke af. They did indeed bus their collective asses down to Orlando from NC.

One factor that I've not seen mentioned (perhaps I missed it) is that ECU is without an AD at this point. Obviously, somebody is standing in, but who knows what kind of issues are in-house at pirateland.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

Perfect timing for Whit to be like

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm sad and also pissed off this became a thing. On the other thread I mentioned that I agreed with the cancellation. That said, I don't agree with the way / method that it was implemented by ECU.

To have enforcement of a contract thrown back in our face is just the tip of the iceberg. To have the VT shooting thrown back in our face is horrific. To claim that VT doesn't care about lives is reprehensible.

A key reason contracts exist is to address unforeseen circumstances and address them without emotion.

I don't care about the money, they can keep it, but to paint VT as some apathetic school is just wrong.


Agree with everything but the money part. They owe us money for sure. I hope we make them pay it. Whether we do remains to be seen. Too lazy to research a source but I believe I read that the cancellation clause calls for a $500,000 payment. Correct me of my math is off but at $50 per ticket x 66,000 (roughly) = $3.3 million in ticket revenue alone that is to be refunded to ticket holders. Not to mention TV, merchandise, concessions, etc. $500,000 doesn't come close to breaking even. Seems it's there as more of a deterrent than anything else and if we don't enforce it then it's a very weak move IMHO.

It's a bit less than $3.3m, since some of them are student tickets and such, but you're right in that it doesn't include concessions and merchandise (TV revenue is unaffected) and didn't even mention the revenue to local businesses due to the influx of game day traffic.

However, this all goes to show that $500k is almost a drop in the bucket compared to what we lost, and it might be worth it from a PR perspective to just cut our losses.

Good point on TV revenue. May not be out of our pocket but someone lost money on the TV side somewhere since there was no game.

The influx of money into the community for game day hurts a lot.

Considering our athletics net income has been in the red anyways the last few years, $0.5m is not a drop in the bucket and losing a home game is a killer to the bottom line for all the reasons mentioned above.

17,000 tickets go to students and the Admin get 1,000
The local econmy is even bigger
During 2014, nonlocal football fans average spending per game $3 million in the NRRV. After inputting visitor spending in the BEA RIMS II model, the analysis indicated nonlocal football fan spending generated an additional $2 million for the local region, for a total economic impact of approximately $5 million per game.

Other cool number (From 2014)

2% of NRRV homes are owned by out of town season ticketholders
60% of gameday spending is Hotels and Restaurants
$150,000 in Gameday sales Tax Revenue
Churches/Schools report parking revenue up $2,000 per Game

I expect that Whit has an obligation, as part of his job, to "consider" collecting the $250k or $500k. The donors to our athletic fund donate for the benefit of VT, not ECU, and thus in my opinion, he has an obligation to consider it. I don't know that means it has to be his recourse. I also don't know if he has authority to donate but I'd be fine with him pursuing the money and then donating it to those that are a victim of this hurricane. The ECU athletic fund is not a victim of the hurricane.

I'd be fine with him collecting the money and using it for the athletic department, which is where the shortfall will be.

I think Whit holds this in his pocket until needed. Hopefully he's positioning Tech in a premier, nuetral site game next year and can bump ECU for the prettier girl. This is a multi year contract so no need to go chasing this money this month. He can bury it during March madness or someother time, or always withhold part of a future payout.

Has there been any talk of a neutral site game next year? It seems like it is a little late for that. Atlanta and Charlotte already has their kickoff games announced. I am thinking it would have to be another FedEx game but I doubt there are any P5 teams looking for a slot.

The only thing working in our favor is that the ACC network launehes next year so maybe ESPN could help Whit find an exciting opening weekend game to highlight their new channel.

The ACC already has a couple neutral-site non-conference games in week 1:

- FSU plays Boise in Jax
- Duke plays Bama in Atlanta
- Miami plays Florida in Orlando
- UNC plays USCe in Charlotte

Not to mention, Louisville hosts Notre Dame on Monday night.

I'm sure at least one of those games will end up on the ACC Network. They don't need yet another one, and even if they did we already have an FCS game planned that weekend.

Duke plays Bama in Atlanta


I feel like we are due for another ATL opener but seems like they are booked up for the next 4 years. If like to get a more winnable game this time, aka not Bama or UGA... Maybe USC?

I've always thought that VT-PSU at FedEx makes too much sense and would be an instant sellout with the alumni bases of those 2 in DC

Edit: There is only 1 Atlanta kickoff game scheduled for 2022 and none for 2023 yet. Charlotte has an opening in 2022 and then 2024 on. If I were Whit I would maybe agree to play ECU the next 2 years (maybe both @VT?) and then try to get out of the last 4 from 22-25 and get 1 or 2 kickoff games scheduled in their place.

we already have an FCS game planned that weekend.

Dates on future schedules don't mean squat, especially for FCS games.

True, it probably wouldn't be too difficult to move that game to week 2, but it doesn't really matter because this scenario isn't going to play out. Everyone else has already finalized their schedules, and all the major week 1 neutral site locations are already booked.

The game is scheduled for September 21st 2019, so I'm assuming there's a lot more neutral site availability then in the opening weekend. Do it in charlotte and split the profits 50/50.

What other teams (that we'd want to play) have openings that week? I highly doubt we'd find many takers.

ECU does :)

The schools go way back in their Relationship, obviously they'll figure out a way to continue on with it.

On the other hand, I was also hoping that we could find another partner since they are on our Schedule for a while now. I don't know who but we already started with ODU, how about Charlotte, although their team is not very good but its only 3 hours away...could be good for recruiting.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens


To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

What? No, who wants to travel to WV every other year?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I'd much rather go to Huntington than Greenville. 8 days a week.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I would trade an ECU series for a Marshall one instantly.

Huntington is farther from most Tech fan bases, seats 12,000 less people, is half the population of Greenville which means less hotels.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

That also means less Greenvillians. Seems like a good tradeoff.

True, but for those of us single Hokie fans... Women in Greenville > Women in Huntington

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

It's been decades, but I can strongly agree with you. One of the highlights of my life.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

But we're all losing sight of the most important thing, which is that Huntington's easier for me to get to, and that's what really matters.

Actually, there are more hotels around Huntington. And Charleston is just down the street. Greenville is in the middle of nowhere.

And there isn't a single person happy with the ECU setup. I know Weaver had a thing with directional state schools, but nobody likes playing ECU every year, much less going to ECU. You want a game closer to the alumni base? You can pick a few handfuls that are a LOT closer than east bf, NC.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see ECU off the away game schedule but not if it means Marshal is the replacement.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

hard disagree. would take Marshall in a heartbeat

We either hitch our horse to an ECU analog, or we rotate between multiple ECU analogs. I doubt we're going to be using the OOC game slot for a second P5 OOC game regularly.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Give me multiple ECU analogs everyday over just ECU. The problem with the ECU series, as we saw in the latter years of Beamer's tenure, is that by playing them every year, they get to know our tendencies like any rival would. They would have enough experience to be able to counter our strengths and attack our weaknesses, and they did it with ruthless efficiency before they went stupid and fired Ruff. It didn't matter that we had better players and a deeper roster, their experience allowed them a gameplan to attack and beat us.

When you're talking about a conference opponent, that's one thing, but when you're talking about a OOC matchup against a team from a lesser tier of prestige in a game the football world expects us to win comfortably, we were only setting ourselves up for season crushing losses. Looking back, the series has never been worth the 'exposure' we thought we were getting.

We're better off scheduling a series of 1-off opponents who have to learn us for the first time.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Yup, I'd rather play rotating series against Marshall, UNC-Charlotte, and/or Coastal Carolina at this point.


To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Nothing in the world wrong with West Virginia, man. Beautiful country. Now on the other hand, West Virginians...

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Also on the other hand, Morgantown...

That's just west Pittsburgh.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Some is pretty. Some is butt ugly.

I think we should pursue the money and donate it to the Hokie Club.

Yes, because it's twice as much as that donor is willing to match on September 25th.

Wasn't ECU's game to cancel. VT asked them to make a joint decision on Wednesday, at the 72 hour mark for the storm. ECU declined.

In my mind the appropriate remedy is to make the game they cancelled, their game. Play the next 2 in Blacksburg.

I can say unequivocally ECU is in breach and will have to pay. Force Majeure applies when issues (such as weather) outside of their control make it impossible or impractical to fulfill contractual obligations. They got on a bus and went to south Florida! They could have just as easily gotten on a bus and went to Blacksburg. They reneged with VT not because they were unable to play VT. They reneged with VT out of fear they would be unable to get to south Florida. Such a motive is NOT acceptable for Force Majeure. ECU is in clear breach and needs to pay up. Their fans can whine and complain all they want. It's facts that matter.

Irony is if Whit just said: "Fine. Let's just tear up the contract, be done with it and both walk away." ECU would be clamoring for money for VT breaking the contract.

Whit comes across to me as a very calculating individual when it comes to decision-making. There are so many different angles to this story and there clearly isn't any perfect solution. I think the biggest losers are the local businesses, and there's no way to recover their losses without rescheduling the game. To me, taking the moral high-ground would be doing whatever you could reasonably do to help your community recoup those losses, even if it means foregoing your team's future bye week.

I hate how right you are.

I think giving up your well placed bye week and turning it in to a short week before a conference game is unreasonable and frankly untenable.

It's Time to go to Work

even if it means foregoing your team's future bye week.

As I said earlier, the sooner we realize this game isn't going to be played, the better. Local businesses may take a hit, but Whit's primary responsibility is to Virginia Tech Athletics and Virginia Tech Athletics alone. He has a secondary obligation to looking out for local businesses, but not at the detriment of what's best for the respective sports. We're best off not playing this game, and certainly not in forgoing a BYE week before a Thurs Night game against Georgia Tech in a critical divisional game that could be the swing game in us playing in the ACC Championship Game.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

I get it. That's why I said there are no winners here. I just hate to consider that many of my close friends and neighbors in my hometown are the ones taking that hit. These are real people with real families and real bills. It's my opinion that their losses are significantly more important than the risks from rescheduling a football game.

Yeah, but this is also the first season since 2014 that we had 7 home games scheduled.

Granted, it does take us down to only one September game, which hasn't happened in a long time, if ever.

We couldn't be bothered to pursue damages from the contractor who didn't finish the West Stands expansion on time. It wasn't even close to ready on time. Will we pursue this?

It would certainly be worth more than the drive for 25 with people paying the minimum.

Weaver couldn't be bothered. And lets be honest, when it came to big decisions, there was a hell of a lot that Weaver couldn't have been bothered to do, God rest his soul.

Whit is very calculating and he'll make his move when he sees it fit.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Duuuude I forgot all about that. I remember hearing on WDBJ that it was like a $5,000/day penalty. Maybe not that much, but I remember my jaw hitting the floor when they reported on how far behind they were.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

That is not a crazy amount for liquidated damages due to not making construction schedule.

And in reality liquidated damages can be much better than actual damages. At least you know what you're facing.

I think we should pursue the whatever payout is outlined in the contract for breach. Donate half of the payout towards hurricane relief/recovery efforts and the other half towards some organization or fund that supports small and medium-sized businesses in blacksburg and the surrounding areas. It sends a message that we won't tolerate undue violations of contracts with our team but also avoids a deal of the PR issues that could come with pursuing this.

Alternatively, and I hope this is where Whit is going with it, use this as an excuse to end our contract with ECU and get them off our schedule a couple of decades early

And now it's time to show the world
That victory is ours tonight

Alternatively, and I hope this is where Whit is going with it, use this as an excuse to end our contract with ECU and get them off our schedule a couple of decades early

Unlikely. The various terms of the contract would be severable (meaning, all other games aren't related to this particular breach).

Whit can renegotiate with ECU using the threat of the breach payout, but that is only the value of one game. The value of one game would likely not yield getting out of the 7 games left on the contract.

🦃 🦃 🦃

I find ECU and their fans

There are wolves and there are sheep, I am the sheep dog

Unpopular opinion time, tech needs to drop this and move on.

Every time I open anything ecu related over the last week I just get angry, frustrated and disappointed in tech fans. Living in eastern NC and hearing the hype for this storm and seeing how it has affected many areas I've lived or visited and knowing so many directly affected by its wrath I just can't imagine anyone having any other reaction than sympathy for what people here have gone thru. Getting angry at ecu fans, using this as an excuse to cancel the series or asking for any money, to me just shows a complete lack of heart. Let ecu deal with it as they please, staying in g'ville or going to F. I wish this would just go away but unfortunately I know better.

And before you start pointing out ecu fans comparing this to 4/16 or people like Ben Swain instigating fans in Twitter, let's be a better fan base and let this go.

Give food and supplies for these people, they are going to need it.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now

We can be sympathetic and charitable while playing a football game safely in Blacksburg on what turned out to be just a cloudy Saturday.

We're not being sympathetic asking a team that is handling the storm, preparations for their families, and preparations for their coming weeks to go somewhere that at that time, they are being told will be in the middle of the storm as well. My whole point is let ecu do what they feel they need to do when they feel they will be in a time of crisis. Stop asking ANYTHING of them (travel, money, future considerations etc.) that has anything to do with this storm. It is in the past now, please let this go

By Wednesday (when VT was to make the call), the forecast moved south. Maybe they shouldn't have jumped the gun.

Maybe we shouldn't arm chair quarterback anybody's hurricane planning/response. I promise that down here, even through the end of the week, they were predicting the worst. If they were never in the perceived path of this thing then I would understand but they didn't know where this thing was going from the start and I don't blame anyone at anytime for taking actions to prepare with what we were being told down here. It's always better to precautious than reactive.

Blacksburg was never going to get mauled by winds, even in the worst forecasts. The hotels would have been safe. What are they risking? Losing a week of practice. Blacksburg was at no risk of being evacuated. This was a football decision, not a safety one.

We are just going to disagree then. I personally think that it's a bad look for vt or anyone to tell someone responding to a potential disaster how they should handle it.

Admittedly this one hits close to home, literally, and I hate giving anybody out there a reason to say vt doesn't care and that's the way whit (initially) and some fans of ours are coming off.

Here the thing that may be causing some of us to all be unsettled on this subject (and I will admit I do not know this to be 100% fact but it is my understanding).:
The game was ours to cancel because we were the host and home team. Not their game to cancel. It is on the home team to make the call and decision to cancel. It had, allegedly, been agreed between both schools to make a call on Wednesday. ECU made their own call (that wasn't really theirs to officially make) on Tuesday when that call officially needed to be made by Virginia Tech.
I think this is why many people are still not real happy with ECU about this. The fact that there was more info the next day (the day both teams agreed to make the call on) indicating the game was very playable with the new forecast just piles onto what the resulting feelings from this were to begin with.

Because some of us feel that way because of this does not make us lacking sympathy for those affected by the storm. It makes me feel like someone is playing the race card on me when I say I want taxes lowered or want to keep my guns.

It makes me feel like someone is playing the race card on me when I say I want taxes lowered or want to keep my guns.


If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Sorry I forgot to run it by you.

You also didn't run it by the Community Guidelines. There was no reason to mention race or politics in that post.


easy now...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Now, now. He is just saying Good For You, right?

Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tach goes into the red and reads 9000 RPMs, that's bad!

In an intentionally combative tone, after being reminded that he broke community guidelines, while also not making any change to the post that breaks community guidelines. IMO he deserves every downvote he's gotten.

EDIT: I just now realized you were being sarcastic, and that there was a completely different meaning to what he said. Banhammer incoming?

I am really bad at putting a /s after posts

Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tach goes into the red and reads 9000 RPMs, that's bad!

Lol, you're fine, I'm the one that actually thought that's what he was saying the first few times I saw it haha.

Shame on me for not picking up on it. I hate the "/s" tag anyway, kills the humor of the statement you're making.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted here. Is it because I missed the sarcasm? Is it because I mixed up my internet slang and didn't realize he was telling me to [pleasure] myself? Is it because I "called" for the banhammer?

Honest question. Looking for feedback.

Guidelines For Y'all

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Stop it

I feed off of nightmares

Watch out for that hammer fam.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Member for 5 years, but only recently, in the last 2 weeks, started posting for the first time since 2016


"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

And there was a user a couple years ago who said he had how many duplicate accounts?

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Starscream, and yup

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Every time I come across Starscream takes on Twitter I cringe so goddamn hard.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

okay but

And before you start pointing out ecu fans comparing this to 4/16

This should absolutely be pointed out, there is less than no excuse for it

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

There is no lack of heart pursuing damages as stated in a binding contract. That's why contracts exist, so there aren't any heart-strings or feelings involved in the decisions, or they aren't made in haste, or decided because of altering outcomes. They are black and white. VT should pursue the damages if they were outlined in the contract as being able to do so. If there are clauses for weather or states of emergency, I am in NO WAY advocating that they hire a lawyer to sue ECU for $500k...because that is not's covered in the contract.

AND, if they do make a payment of $500k, if owed, it would be a great gesture to turn around and make a substantial (60% or so) back to eastern NC for flood relief, with the remaining going to downtown Blacksburg Chamber or DPW for flood proofing sections of town/campus.

Nobody is breaking out pitchforks and heading to ECU saying they owe us no matter. And nobody is being unsympathetic to the area residents of eastern NC. Contracts is contracts. Owed is owed. If it isn't owed to us, VT won't see a penny or pursue it any further. Believe me when I say I understand about hurricane preparedness and flooding issues. Last Tuesday, before the hurricane was close to land, we had flooding that was around 6" from Sandy level. Without rain. I get it. Nobody is killing the residents. But there was a protocol put in place for a reason, and ECU made decisions without following that protocol. Again, contract terms exist so decisions cannot be made with the heart or off the cuff...but they did so anyway.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I understand how contracts work and if there was no force majeure clause then shame on those that drew up the contract. But in the same vein, I feel like compassion should outweigh the need for reparations. The way this world works is "c.r.e.a.m., dolla dolla bill yall" tho...

How about shame on those who paid lawyers to review it and then signed it anyway??

There is no lack of heart pursuing damages as stated in a binding contract. That's why contracts exist, so there aren't any heart-strings or feelings involved in the decisions, or they aren't made in haste, or decided because of altering outcomes. They are black and white.

As someone who has written contracts, this is a gross mischaracterization of contracts. Contracts exist because the subject matter is both important and uncertain. Contracts remove uncertainty, but hardly ever remove feelings attached. Whether it's the joy of buying a home or the distress of signing a plea deal for crimes of conspiracy against your country, real people are behind almost every contract.

🦃 🦃 🦃

Thank you for saying this in such a concise way. As someone who also writes and administers/enforces contracts, it kills me when people think they're 100% black and white and everyone just skips along their merry way and abides by them in every situation.

Contracts remove uncertainty

I would add they remove uncertainty to the best of both party's ability at the time of execution, which is never 100%. The best contracts still have many holes, small as they might be, that if exploited make everyone's life a living hell. When you go to shove a contract down someone's throat, you always have to weigh the benefit vs the cost of souring the relationship and spending the rest of the term battling over inconsequential crap.

I really can't give my opinion on what Whit should or shouldn't pursue without reading the contract in it's entirety and having a feel for the personalities he's dealing with at ECU. I will say that if this went down the way it seems, there's a good chance we'll never schedule ECU again (after current contracts expire) as long as Whit is making the decision, which is fine by me. That's a consequence that ultimately hurts ECU a lot in the long run. Whit is HIGHLY respected in that circle. ECU's lifeblood right now is their occasional win over a P5 (usually ACC) school. If ACC schools stop scheduling them altogether because they're bad partners, they're going to have a hard time moving forward.

ECU playing down at USF this weekend... should I go and wear my VT jersey? With their colors my Orange and Maroon colors should stick out on TV... thoughts?

-Semper Primus

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Do it!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

No new topic .........but

We are #1

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

God bless a Chinese chicken!!!! Good Lord! The horse is DEAD. Stop beating it....

The hurricane happened. It was extremely hard to predict what would actually happen as this storm was not the "normal", easy to track hurricane. It did weird stuff and the original forecasts changed. ECU made the decision to cancel the game. Decision made-discussion over. Yes, it would have been nice to make the decision together, but that's not what happened. Yes, we are tired of playing ECU anyway... Maybe there will be some way to change that in the future. Yes, contracts exist for a reason and they signed a contract. S*** happened, the game got cancelled. Let's drop this discussion.

Instead of this whinefest, let's focus on providing help to the people impacted by the hurricane, the Drive for 25, and this week beating ODU.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Yes, ma'am. Sorry, Mom.

She's a teacher so these rants are kind of expected. I know. I live with her after all.

I also married a teacher. I was sincere. No shenanigans.

Shenanigans are fine... Fun even. I was just so done with the abyss that this thread was becoming.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

You know good and well that is not my best rant......

The best one is Godblessachinesechicken.... Jesusmaryandjosephtheshepherdthesheepthewisementhecamelstheelephanttheoctopus.... Oy ve dios mio... Omnidirectional oopherectomy...

Usually those come out most during football season. But they do happen at other times.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Yeah, those are usually directed to me for something I am going or football.

Is a Chinese Chicken any different from a regular chicken?

Now, Cole, when you shift the gear and that little needle on the tach goes into the red and reads 9000 RPMs, that's bad!

Ya, if you have a drumstick, your brain stops tickin'.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Watchin' X-Files with no lights on?

We're dans la maison.

(And yes, this song is where she got that phrase from and she uses it A LOT.)

I hope the Smoking Man's in this one

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Like Harrison Ford I'm getting...

Danny Coale Caught That Ball!!!

Like Sting I'm Tantric

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson


I'm guaranteed to satisfy.

Like Kurosawa I make mad films

Okay.. I don't make films.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

But if I did, they would have a

Gonna get a set of better clubs
Gonna find the ones with tiny nubs
Just so my irons aren't always flying off the backswing

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

It's been one week since you looked at me
Dropped your arms to your sides and said I'm sorry
Five days since I laughed at you and said
You just did just what I thought you were gonna do
Three days since the living room
We realized we're both to blame, but what could we do?
Yesterday you just smiled at me
Cause it'll still be two days till we say we're sorry

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

At first glance, my brain flagged this as extremely NSFW, instead of the mildly NSFW that it actually is.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Well... That is thoroughly terrifying.

Uh huh....

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

That's only mildly better. He looks sort of like a ferengi in this one..

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Now it's a fergeni and Gollum.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.


The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Anime babes make you thinking of the wrong things?

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Not sure what in the world anime has to do with that photo, but... sure. Let's go with that.

Well, this was a comment thread including lyrics to the song "One Week", by the Barenaked ladies. A follow on lyric after the "like Sting, I'm tantric" line (the photo in the post you commented on), is a line about Sailor Moon, in which he says he's going to get in tune with Sailor Moon because that cartoon "has got the boom" and that anime babes used "make him think the wrong things".

I was correlating your first instinct with the Sting picture to the Barenaked Ladies, and their past affection for anime

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Gotcha. Must have forgotten that line. I know (most of) the song which is why I waited for someone else to continue it so I didn't interrupt the flow haha

Yeah, I got bummed because the guy that went back to the chorus skipped the sailor moon line, which is kind of the crescendo to that verse.


Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Asking the important questions

Danny Coale Caught That Ball!!!

NC State just announced they are playing ECU December 1st as a make up game for both teams. We should sue them for their payout for that game to make up for stiffing us. Or at least use this to break the play them forever contract.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

What's the old adage about lending money to someone you don't like? It's the cheapest money spent to get them out of your life?

I want Whit to post this on Twitter...@ them.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD