Virginia Tech 28, Georgia Tech 49

That was a disaster.

[Mark Umansky]

There is a lot to say about Virginia Tech football tonight, but this about sums it up.

Micro: Georgia Tech mollywhopped the Hokies. The Yellow Jackets, which improved to the definition of average .500 with the 49-28 win, did what they do best. The Bees rushed for 465 yards and passed for 0 (on a single attempt). The 35 first downs was record setting, in the worst way for those who rock maroon and orange.

Well, at least one Tech played to its identity in Lane. Meanwhile, Virginia Tech remained stagnant, at best, which isn't anything to write home about, but seemingly regressed after an open week. That's disheartening. Down 14-21, Georgia Tech ripped off 35-straight points and the Hokies keeled over. The worst part, the Hokie faithful — judging by the early Lane exodus, @thekeyplay's Twitter timeline, and TKP's commenteriate — didn't think a comeback was possible down 14. All of this happened, mind you, after a bye week, in a crucial divisional game, at home, and on a Thursday night.

Macro: Fuente's honeymoon ended in November 2017 with a disturbing loss against Georgia Tech punctuated by some boneheaded end of game play calls. This year's iteration, repeated chop blocks to Virginia Tech's soul, leave many residents of the fanbase questioning Fuente's coaching acumen and ability to manage the program. This team is inexperienced, sure. However, it's also poorly coached, and as a result, bad. That's inescapable. Moreover, the mistakes, especially defensively, are rarely due to aggressive, bang-bang, play. The defense isn't pursuing with a head full of steam past the gap, it's on its heels. That's uncomfortable because it's uncharacteristic.

Back in August, I doubt anyone expected Virginia Tech would stare down November fresh off a blowout against the Bees and loss at Old Dominion to its name. A level-headed outlook expected bumps and miscues in Year Three of the Fuente era, but not like this, and that's commentary skewed toward execution, not necessarily record.

For a college football coach, success has a short shelf life. That's the deal. That's not to say Fuente isn't the right guy for the job, but it would be prudent for him to use this 4-game stretch to remind everyone why they thought so in the first place.

Comments

Totally on point.

The disaster will continue. Bill Bilicheck (sp) would struggle with this crew IMO.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Perhaps, but they would improve. Virginia Tech is trending down at the moment. That's not encouraging.

dcwilson40 was right. I don't like it, but when you're right, you're right.

The other night I was thinking about this 3 year rule with a new coach — that's really when he has his guys in. I thought, well, not really...in that case the juniors are mostly holdovers from the last staff and that leaves the rest of "his guys" as sophomores and freshmen. I felt pretty good about that and thought more college programs should be a bit more patient and thought I would be too. Just wait another season or 2, then he has "his guys" as upperclassmen with "his guys" coming in as young backups.

After yet another demoralizing loss to GT — or, another demoralizing loss — or, another new low, which I think Joe more or less summed up in his post. My thoughts now are - and excuse my while I throw up - if these kinds of results continue...are we on a path UVa took a long time ago? I honestly have no idea and I'm not saying that we are (and I will continue to root for and donate to my beloved Hokies), but this thought has now crossed my mind and that's frightening.

I wish I knew the course correction...had I won that lottery the other night...I'd have donated about $50M...but alas, I dream...I dream.

I've lost any hope I had for this team and I was a Fu apologist... this team is regressing.... too much off-season drama carrying over... no fire...looked like it gave up...I don't see the off-season or QP fixing this. If we win another game at this point I'll be shocked. If we truly are this bad ...young has nothing to do with it...we are definitely not hard smart or tough...Something is clearly off....this is not VT Football

He's Still Open!!!

Was it really off-season drama or CJF giving instructions and the players not carrying them out (or not able to) with passion. Yes, this is a sign of youth (immaturity), but also you have to know your player's ability and motivate, play within their limits, or recruit players that will work in your scheme.

There is enough blame to go around.

Thanksgiving weekend is looking scary. :-(

Thanksgiving weekend is looking scary. :-(

That dinner with the family may be the high point of that week is truly sobering.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Depends on the family.

I mean those that have Hoos at the table. Duh.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Fuente it seems has lost this team and Bud needs to shave, lose that gut and start coaching again or move on. The whole team has no heart and it shows. Has all year, starting in spring.

Jack R.

I've actually heard there might be some things going, perhaps causing that, with and he's not coping well. Hope it's not true and I hope he's ok.

I been here since day 0.

Literally nothing suggests Fuente has lost this team. Saying stuff like that is just irresponsible

I think this team would be pretty good if
A. Had More size on the d-line, I think this is a problem now and going forward, really need to recruit some bigger linemen
B. More experienced linebackers

I think those are the glaring weaknesses, if you threw Settle and Edmundi on this team we would be undefeated. I truly believe that.

As for Tonight's game the fumble killed the spirit of the defense. They were stoked about the stop and then instantly gave up a TD...team caved after that which shouldn't ever be the case...also running the option on 3rd and 3 or whatever that got stuffed was turrrrible

Sean

To blame it on the D after the special teams effed up (twice) mind you is not even logical. The defense was already gassed by that point. That blame goes all on special teams especially Savoy.

How many stops did the D have last night?

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Two I think, counting the muffed punt.

4 if you count the end of half and end of game...

The game clock should get credit for two of those.

What is even more sad is that the defense wasn't even the primary force that stopped GT for the muffed punt drive. Georgia Tech stopped themselves with a bad pitch.

The first two defensive "stops" by either team were fumbles. One on the pitch, the other on the bad snap to Willis.

No one really played defense last night. We "didn't play defense" worse than they "didn't play defense".

my problem is we didn't play d in such a way to force them to those low percentage plays (the pitches). They barely had to run the option.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

To add, the defense was gassed in part due to the offense's speedy playcalling and scoring. I honestly think Fuente/Cornelson did it on purpose to try and out gun GT on the scoreboard which backfired massively as the defense wilted. Radio show post game seemed too casual.

The defense was gassed becuase they couldnt get a stop. we had two quick scores in the first quarter. ffs if they are gassed after like 20 minutes of play then we need to evaluate the s&c program as well. i dont think that was the issue though.

They had to be so frustrated and tired getting cut block all night and staying out on the field so long. Rough

Gassed?

... from the opening kickoff?!! There were no signs of life from the beginning.

You can't be serious? Really? We forced one - one- punt. We were not playing Alabama or The 1999 St. Louis Rams. We stopped their offense ONCE the entire freaking game... forced a punt ONCE. They did not complete a pass and kicked our ass up and down the field. They ran a QB counter play that every high school in virginia runs from the TWELVE YARD LINE and walked in. Not from the 1 yard line..no, from the 12. They had 3rd and 14 and ran a tailback pitch for 18 yards... and for fun, we grabbed the kids facemask. We are a P5 team and we got trounced by a team that did NOT COMPLETE A PASS... GTFOOH blaming the "offense" for this one. We could have scored on every possession, and we would have lost unless they fumbled. We got our asses thoroughly kicked on offense, defense and special teams by a team that will scratch to win 5 games. We are plus 100th ranked in total defense. But yeah, only if Savoy doesn't fumble that punt, we were on our way to being the steel curtain last night. Right.

Hard truth here. But truth nonetheless.

We forced two punts that I recall, including the muff.

That said, having been in the stadium last night, the air went out of the place the moment that punt was muffed and recovered by the Jackets.

Momentum is a strong thing, especially for younger players, and right now I don't think the defense believes in itself. Some of that is on the coaches, some of that can be the fact that maybe no one has really stepped up to be the leader of the defense - or at least one the rest of the defense can buy into. Some of that is they need to have some of those good things happen to start believing in themselves. I think Walker recovering the fumble or just making a decent drive instead of "ST fumble, GT touchdown" would have been a start.

the fumble killed the spirit of the defense.

If one fumble or one muffed punt kills the spirit of your defense, your defense has no spirit. And that's a coaching problem.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Then it goes back to coaching. Work crazy hard in practice for the game is a lot easier.

Fuente is not going to elevate this program to the next level. He doesn't know how to focus the team and he doesn't know how to get the best out of players.

Call it an overreaction, I don't care. Inexperience plays a part in this loss of course but I doubt a jerod evans led team would've beaten GT today either. We're truly just an intro at this point.

the inexperience part has nothing to do with jerod evans or QB play so yeah youre right him leading the team wouldn't have beat GT either. but a Xavier adibi and vince hall D would have. I believe ashby and dax can be just as good as that combo.

#Bapn ain't EZ

Wanna win put boobie in! Let boobie spin coach!

I do not share your view that Ashby/Dax can be as good as Adibi/Hall. Ashby reminds me more of a Mikal Baaqee type player. Okay college player but not a pro. Haven't seen enough of Dax yet.

I disagree a little, this team is severely lacking a leader. It doesn't matter what side the leader is from but there needs to be a central man that can rally the squad. That doesn't exist right now.

I agree and I've felt that way almost the entire season. Hell, if either of the Edmunds brothers had stayed I think this team would have some leadership on the player-side and that's one of the downsides to being such a young team -- no one to step up and take the reigns.

Eh.. Dax has unlimited potential... agree. He is a "football player" and I'm glad we have him. Ashby? I dunno. Gritty and around the ball... but a non factor last night- non factor.

That
Was
Awful

As soon as Walker failed to recover that fumble in the 2nd quarter I thought, "damn, that's gonna bite is in the ass." Then when we got the stop I briefly had hope of going up 14 and changing the whole gameplan for the bees. Then what do we do? Hit the punter on a punt that didn't need blocking and then savoy muffed the re-kick. That was the end of the game right there.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I think part of the problem was attrition too. iIRC by that time we had lost 2defensive starters to injury and then Ladler got called for targeting.
In total we lost 4 defensive starters that game.

I wasn't surprised when the D lost gas.

I had a feeling it was going to be a long night when we missed the tackle on 3rd and 8 on their first drive. Belmar got enough of him to make him stumble and Gaines missed the tackle.

Make that tackle, force a punt and score again 14-0 it puts the pressure on them.

It just wasn't meant to be.

Tackling all night was terrible and making first contact after they were five yards downfield didn't help.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

That was one of my big thoughts, our defense didn't start trying to tackle until they were at least three yards down field. I think we had a stop for 1 or less yards less than five times in that game.

I noticed Mahota was lining up a good yard off the line of scrimmage, so he never had 'push' when the play started. By the time the ball was snapped, the o-lineman was able just to drive him further back. This was going on all night. Why?

Most likely trying to avoid the cut block because of his leg issues. Probably wouldn't have played if Hewitt doesn't go down

Good point, the cut block is definitely a concern, but playing scared is an issue. It is infuriating that GT is being know for cut blocks and the refs aren't all over them.

Cut blocks the way GT does them are legal though.

Chop blocks (high/low) are always illegal. But you can block below the waist at the LOS when you're facing your man. I don't like it, but it's the rule, and GT uses it effectively.

lotta high low going on especially early going

u either retaliate by giving their QB a nice brain nap, or you let PJ make you his b***ch

I'm gonna own up on DVing this. Why? Because the post reads to me as advocating for injuring another player, possibly even giving him a concussion, and that's never okay.

If that isn't your intention then I'll gladly retract the DV.

It wouldn't be right to cut anyone off and not let them vent in this frustrating time, but I just want to add some perspective. Our losses were the result of:

  • a very young defense not knowing how to handle being heavily favored against a team that really wanted to win
  • a very young defense not knowing how to handle a top 20 offense backed by a top 10 defense
  • a very young defense not knowing how to handle the triple option

Of course, this is Bud Foster's defense. We naturally think he should be able to stop a literal moving train from scoring. He's been the best for the past 20 years, and this year would have been more of the same had it not been for absurd amounts of attrition. He's been playing Ricky Walker, Vinny Mihota, Khalil Ladler and a bunch of unexperienced freshmen and sophomores. This is the youngest, most inexperienced defense he's ever fielded, and his defense takes a hot minute for players to grasp.

It's annoying, painful and depressing to watch this season. But if there's any hope out there, it's that the 9 underclassmen on defense will have a year of practice and in-game experience to learn from. We can vent, it's only natural. I've repeatedly told myself that I'm tired of waiting another year. But honestly, let's not lose perspective, because next year's defense is going to be lit.

I've been on this boat for a while. But I think after last night's game I have to admit it's sinking.
Inexperienced as they may be, we have not seen the growth that leads one to believe that next year will produce drastically different results. Won't even sniff the realm of lit. Hurts my soul to type this, but the passion and tenacity of this defense is truly lacking, and gives me little hope there will be much improvement with Walker gone.

Maybe, but should we be expecting to see growth at this point? Generally, you see the most growth between third and fourth year in the program, between r-so and r-jr years. We have a lot of t-fr, r-fr, and t-so players on defense. Should we really be expecting to see a lot of improvement at this point?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'd love to agree, but the problem is the defense isn't doing the fundamentals correctly...this might be the worst tackling VT defense I've ever seen.

As manhandled as the D was last night, there were still opportunites to make some plays and the tackling was terrible. Somebody needs to be held accountable for this defense's lack of development. We are at a point in the season where the youth excuse means less and less in my opinion.

This sucks.

I wouldn't disagree that we are young, but last night was not their first game playing tackle football.

The number of times I saw defenders hit and bounce off their QB without using their arms to wrap up was atrocious.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

I think the alarming thing that fans are reacting to is that it wasn't lack of execution that did us in, it was lack of talent. There wasn't anything that jumped off the field last night that suggested time with the playbook or another year in the weight room would solve anything. The problems that were apparent against GT can only be solved on the recruiting trail and unfortunately, our classes continue to be a mere respectable instead of an obvious step forward.

I disagree. It was lack of effort. Lack of intensity. Lack of leadership. Joe (or whoever runs TheKeyPlay twitter) made a good point last night: the defense is not making mistakes from "aggression." They're not ball-hawking, charging too far upfield, trying to do too much, etc. Remember how Dadi used to drive everyone crazy rushing 15 yards upfield while the QB slipped out of the pocket behind him? I don't see this defense doing that. They just don't tackle, they don't push, they don't stand their ground. And that's a leadership problem, a coaching problem.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

So if I'm reading correctly, you're saying that with our current roster, if we simply coach them better and someone emerges as a leader we can win the conference?

"We just need an offense, a defense, and some rule changes."

I'm not really making that argument -- again, this is year 3, so any deficiencies on the roster are also Fuente's responsibility (not necessarily his fault, but his responsibility). But I think this roster could win the division, and then it's a simple matter of beating the #2 team in the country to win the conference.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

It very well could be a coaching issue. But I see Bud using a lot more zones this year and less blitzes that require man-to-man. He is rarely leaving anyone in the secondary on an island. That tells me it is talent, or lack thereof that is the issue. He is doing soft coverage and zones due to lack of confidence on the secondary's inability to handle press coverage and man-to-man.

I was with you for the first couple of games. We had/have a very young defense and they were inexperienced. But this was game 7. At this point our defense is young and bad. We had a good rating against the run until yesterday.

This pretty sums up my night:

getting more and more pissed and finally just feeling deflated

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I turned the game off in the 3rd quarter right after GT scored on their opening possession. I knew we had no chance at winning and watching GT run the ball down our throats was only causing me emotional pain. I honestly think that's the first time I've even turned off a VT game.

Right there with you, I did the same thing. I told my wife at halftime that if they scored on their opening possession, the game would be over. Sadly, it was over when we muffed that punt. Still, #BeatBC

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

When Tre Turner let the ball go through his hands, I told my wife, "that was our last chance." She said "you're crazy! It's tied, and we still have two quarters to play!" I said, "It will be 35-21 when the 4th quarter starts, and there's no way we're going to make a comeback."

The funny thing is, I felt better the first quarter than I did when we beat UNC. At least the offense was functioning. I figured after two or three possessions, the defense would settle down and start playing their assignments. Instead they just quit, and the offense allowed the malaise of the defense to infect them as well.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Not sure why anyone thought we'd beat GT. We've never stopped that option even when our defense was good/experienced. We knew it was going to be a long day after their first drive and we knew it was game over when a routine fair catch doinked off of Savoy's face mask......and the game was still tied at that point.

yep that savoy muff will definitely make the gifeat this week.

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Slow up, they've been running that shit since 2008 and onward, we have played them every year and held them below, to way below their average most years. We have given up 30+ to them twice. There were several years where we held them to under 200 yards rushing.

I feel awful about what happened last night. I've never seen a defensive performance that bad from us, but I will not let people say reactionary, retrospective lies that are outright false.

Agree. I thought the defense would stop the option, even after the first two possessions. I've seen them do it enough times before. When GT beats us, it's usually one of those games where they have 2 completions on 3 pass attempts, for 140 yards and two TDs.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

2 completions on 3 8 pass attempts, for 140 yards and two TDs

FTFY

Defensive scheme last night didn't do is any favors at all. We are best when we are aggressive, but we were so focused on filling gaps and staying in lanes we allowed ourselves to be passive and not attack. One missed tackle and it was a big gain. Thing is, that's nothing new against GT. Bud's scheme is putting us in positions to lose this game annually. The last time I remember us winning this game we had Kyle Fuller obliterating the mesh point behind the LOS all game, and now it's like we are taught to never cross it and let the play come to you. And it's been this way for years now.

Offensively, not great but the game was over when we took our foot of the gas and punted on 4th and short late in the first half after GT tied it up after the muff. Our defense couldn't stop a peewee team last night, so the better call was to try and pick up the first down and get points to at least hold serve. We gave it back, they took the lead, and that was it. Ballgame.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Bud's scheme is putting us in positions to lose this game annually.

Unfortunately, due to a multitude of failures at consistent recruiting and, as it seems, inability to properly coach up the new blood, Bud doesn't have much to work with to do wrinkles like the Kyle Fuller LOS missle. Instead, he's basically throwing in sandbags to prevent a tidal wave. I think the only thing that would have helped this defense would to have played GT the first game of the year instead of FSU. One of the players (LB, I think?) said before the game that they did literally no prep for GT up until the UNC game was over. So, as we saw last night, 10 days wasn't enough time to prep these young kids for the triple option attack. Furthermore, whatever prep they did do apparently caused them to forget whatever they had learned about tackling. Either that, or GT cheated and rubbed down their unis in Crisco before the game.

I am pretty disheatenwd. The offense looked on it's toes early. They were physical and aggressive. It was everything we wanted right up to the muffed punt. And then it looked like a different offense.

The defense was a mess. Being young and inexperienced is problematic and there will be mistakes. My worry, as I said before, is that I just don't see players beating blocks and making plays. Really talented young players make mistakes, but they also will flash glimpses of talent and make plays. Georgia Tech's offensive line forced VT to commit 5-6 to the dive and trap. That left the secondary to track the QB lead, counter, and toss sweep (I saw almost zero triple option.) GT's wide receivers and A backs completely ate up VT's safeties and corners.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I agree with this. I just dont see the raw talent there (with one or two individual exceptions). I think it's definitely fair to start asking whether Fuente can elevate the program to a level that annually competes for the ACC let alone a playoff berth. I think it's also fair to start asking whether we're watching Bud's swan song.

I would say let's evaluate Fuente after 5 years. That's a full cycle of his players and allows him time to make inroads in recruiting in this region. I don't want to be a program that has unrealistic expectations too early and moves on from a coach too quickly. Not looking good now, but let's see if he can build it. Obviously talent needs to improve.

Yeah, year 5 is definitely our year.

It was "student body left/student body right" and the quarterback follow all night!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

I saw our D-line just get washed out on almost every play. They lined up a yard off the line, probably with the idea the O-linemen would shoot and the D-line would use technique to get off the block and move to their gap. The problem is the D-line just got manhandled. AND the LBs got caught in the wash. AND the sedondary got blown off the point of attack by the WRs an backs. AND NOBODY wanted to tackle. That was the worst all-around defensive performance i have ever seen from the Hokies. Just ugly.

All of this commentary about the lack of play makers on this young team has me wondering when the narrative of VT defense changed. With few exceptions, Bud has made his reputation on developing players, not playing with the most talented roster. We do not recruit in the top 10 annually. This isn't news to anyone, so why the sudden discussion of "they're young but they should still be playmakers!"?

I cannot recite off hand the star comparison between the last two classes and the average of the previous decade, but it seems we have recruited some solid guys, and the fact is they still need to be developed. Had we had two years of top 10 recruiting classes and still have the observation of a lack of playmakers, that would be much more concerning.

This staff is known for developing talent. Let's give them a chance to develop before we declare that we're trending down and the ship is sinking. Looking at this roster and the schedule, we should expect to see an upward trend in 2019 and then 2020 should be the benchmark for what this coaching staff can accomplish. If in 2020 we're not competing at a high level week in and week out, then it's time to make a change.

In the meantime, let's all take a deep breath, look at this program in some historical perspective, and to steal a line from others, "Trust the Process".

The offense looked on it's toes early. They were physical and aggressive. It was everything we wanted right up to the muffed punt. And then it looked like a different offense.

Really? I didn't get that at all. To me the only thing that changed was that our young receivers started playing tight because they realized this game was entirely on their shoulders. Two Tre Turner drops and the offensive P.I. on Kumah killed three drives that allowed GT to run away with the game. Frustrating, but also indicative of players trying to do too much when put under the pressure of carrying the team.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Hey French, having zero X's and O's knowledge, I read "I saw almost zero triple option" and wonder what, then, will keep every other team from lining it up and running it down our throats like this every game for the rest of the season? This game reminded me a lot of the ODU game, and your comment in one of the post-game threads there about being concerned how ODU looked bigger, stronger, and more physical than our D, and how they were able to seemingly run over VT at will.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Well, that was... something.

The offense actually wasn't too bad. Some drops (too many really) but for the most part they looked good. Time for Willis, decent throws (for the most part), the run game was pretty good.

But the defense looked sluggish and timid. I understand we wanted to prevent the big play and not to over-commit, but since we were giving up 6 yards a a carry either way, I'm not sure why we played soft defense the whole game. At some point, shouldn't we have tried something, anything, different?

The three play stretch of missed fumble recovery, running into the kicker and muffed punt deflated the defense. I get that they are young and it is frustrating to see your only stop dissolve, but the coaches have to do a better job of getting the players back up after disappointment.

I love Bud Foster and think he is one of the best in the game, but this season's defense has looked timid, slow and undisciplined. I'm not happy with a loss in any circumstance, but I will take a loss where we play hard and get beat over this mess any day. Just once I wish we'd have gotten burned by being overly aggressive, because it would have shown some kind of life. Instead, we looked like a wet paper bag.

Ick, on to Boston College. I hope we figure out how to tackle before next weekend or it is going to be a rough day.

Go Hokies.

less scared of BC, actually. I fully expect Loeffler to get cute and give us a few unearned stops. It's gonna come down to the offense again, but they'll actually get the ball more than 9 times against BC so those 3 and outs may not be as painful.

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Why do people assume Loeffler is going to be cute? BC generally lines up and manhandles people at the line with their O-line. After last night, I am very worried what Dillion is going to do to us.

Why do people assume Loeffler is going to be cute?

I mean, we have first hand experience in Loeffler cuteness to go off of, and I haven't watched much BC football recently.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Two lack luster performances coming off an open week. I would have to think that this points at coaching as much as anything

I thought the FSU game went well coming off an open week.

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We all thought that at the time. If we played FSU next week we would lose 56-0. And they're still not that good.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

this points at coaching

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

At one point in the 3rd quarter, the camera was on Bud on the sideline- he said something along the lines of "this is pathetic, pathetic."

I'm not trying to give Bud a blanket pass on games where the defense doesn't perform, but we still do not have an offense capable of keeping pace on the scoreboard if the defense is not having one of their games.

The game was 21-21 at one point. Offense was moving, quickly, a majority of the first half. I think Willis said on radio he blinked and game was over. One of the the other comments that comes to mind: we had 7 offensive plays in the 3rd quarter.

We gave up 465 rushing yards. Zero passing yards. I think we got two stops all night. We scored touchdowns on our first three possessions of the game and we still got smoked. I don't lay much blame on the offense in this one. We were getting gashed so badly that it started to feel like a victory when we held GT to 4 yards on 1st down. I think we forced them into 3rd and long three or four times.

There's not many offenses in the country that could've kept pace with that defensive performance last night. We would've had to score touchdowns on almost every possession, and when the offense realized that, it seemed like they folded under the pressure. There was some questionable playcalling too. But to ask the offense to keep pace with that defensive performance is a tall task.

I love Bud. I still think he's the best DC in the country. But he's had his worst two games (that I've ever seen, at least) this year and it's concerning. We're getting our asses kicked by terrible teams. That doesn't fall on the offense.

Man, I just feel bad for Bud. This season is just so uncharacteristically horrible for him and his staff. Its seriously worse than we could have imagined, and we knew it was going to be a struggle. Last night was one of those games that gets coordinators fired the next morning.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

I feel bad for Bud too. He is better than last night and he is better than ODU. He's one of the best to ever do it X and O's wise. Hands Down. Bud the recruiter/closer/head of the defensive recruiting board - is not a hall of famer though. And that's what let him down last night. When Bud Foster can't answer the QB counter inside run for 4 quarters...it's a horses issue.

There were two key third and long situations that the D forced GT into and on both of those we had Oliver pinned down in the backfield wrapped up, but we simply couldn't make the play. In both situations, he, all by himself, made the first down... Again, on 3rd and long.

Execution is a major issue with this unit.

Is it football season yet?

Poor coaching, poor execution, and a butt ton of personal fouls equal getting spanked by Gerber Boy and his triple option. All week the talk has been about how you get limited opportunities and all we could do was keep giving them to GT. I didn't know the drive for 25 meant driving for a 2-5 record....

But we're already passed 2-5?

There's always next year...

"It's always great to beat UVA, that makes us all smarter and better looking for a couple days".

This team is not improving but regressing and continue to make the same mistakes ( penalties , poor tackling and lack of execution and most surprising non existent or sub par coaching. The future is not bright as recruiting at critical positions is atrocious and this is a responsibility of these coaches . Fuente better have a come to Jesus moment with these players and coaches or he is toast. After supporting Tech football 52 years this is one of the worst defenses I have witnessed and that includes the 77-6 loss to Alabama in the 60s ( GaTech is not Alabama) . Just totally disappointing. , frustrating and unsatisfactory!

georgebd

Here's the thing about an inexperience/growth/rebuilding season - there's supposed to be ups and downs. With this defense there have been ONLY downs.

Usually after a loss I have a more level-headed outlook the next day. I don't this morning. I don't see how this defense is going to get better without a sudden infusion of 5 star talent or grad transfers. Quite frankly the whole defense is just bad and not getting better, and the only "inexperienced" player who I feel has shown any potential to get better over the season is Farley, who sure looks more like a WR trying to play CB than a real CB.

Of all the players you choose Farley who is afraid of tackling? I would have at least picked Ashby.

I've at least seen Farley make a few nice plays in coverage this year. He's had a ton of absolutely awful plays but there have at least been a few ups to go with his downs. I really don't feel that way about any of the other young players on defense. Ashby is solid but unspectacular, which is fine but is not going to win this team any games when the rest of the unit is playing like garbage around him.

Everyone gets on him for his tackling, and it's embarrassingly bad. But to me a CB being able to tackle is just a plus. If anything the fact that Farley is missing so many is more of an indictment of the players around him failing to tackle guys before they get to him or of the staff putting him in a position to be making more tackles when he clearly can't.

Here's a novel concept - don't kick four of your most talented defensive players off of the team.

I get it. Team first. GRIT. All the other things Fuente preaches. And Mook, Adonis, Trevon Hill, and Cam Goode may all have done things that warranted their removal. But as the CEO of the program, if you know you have players who may have certain tendencies, then steer them toward better outcomes.

For anyone who says these young men are adults and need to have accountability..right. We were all 21 year old idiots. Corporate compliance departments exists so grown ass business men don't put themselves in the position to take bribes, participate in anti-trust, or unknowingly do other stupid shit. Why aren't we similarly helping our players?

If Trevon Hill is losing his shit in the locker room, then get him to channel that passion onto the football field (Trevon, who by the way, was paying his nuts off in that ODU game). If Cam Goode doesn't want to run, then ease him into it and remind him that he has NFL talent if he can get into the right conditioning. Sit down Mook and Adonis and get through to them. That is part of running the program.

It seems like Fuente has a very binary level of expectations. You either subscribe to his rules, or you don't. If you choose the latter, the odds of you succeeding in his program are not very high.

Well, Coach Fuente, similarly, the VT fanbase has a very binary level of expectations. You win, or you don't. I would argue that you getting waxed by ODU and GT in Year 3 is more offensive to me as a proud alumni than Cam Goode not wanting to run sprints...and you kicked him off the team for that. So where does that leave you?

Mook has a felony arrest and Adonis was academically ineligible not a lot any coach or administrative person can do there.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Something something support staff something something.

/s

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I know it was sarcasm but Adonis has given numerous interviews where he says Fuente, Foster and the support staff and academic staff did everything short of doing his work for him.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I know and I'm on your side. I just couldn't help myself.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Fuente suspended Adonis in 2016 and 2017. He played with fire there. There's an argument to make the program could have parted ways then, signed an extra corner, and then not been caught with its pants down prior to 2018. Although, Adonis is a great talent and that's a tough call. There's less publicly available information on other dismissals, but man, I don't get the warm and fuzzies about Fuente's program management skills. That's a substantial concern for me.

At the same time you can't give Goode preferential treatment, especially as a freshman, and say "you don't want to work as hard as everyone else? We'll let you because of your massive talent." That becomes cancer in a locker room quickly.

Same goes for Trevon. I've heard the rumor about what happened to earn his dismissal from other people who don't go to message boards at all; when there's that much smoke there's definitely a fire and if it's even half true you can't have that kind of thing going on in the locker room, either.

The one thing I will say is that, other than Cam, all of the "problematic players" have so far all holdovers of the Beamer era. Why that is, though, I have no idea.

What concerns me more is how much this year's team reminds me of the 2003 team - tons of talent, can't get out of its own way for whatever reason. Last night was our 2003 WVU. UNC was our 2003 Temple. FSU might have been our 2003 Miami.

But would a game or three suspension against Hill been better than removal from the team?

Hill was constantly in the dog house; it's why he didn't start against FSU. Basically he did himself in with lots of smaller cuts then, if the rumors are even partially true, finished himself with one big cut.

Even then, if he really did get into a fight with one of the coaches and made the comment he purportedly made and that was his only transgression? He likely still would have been gone and I wouldn't have blamed the coaches one bit.

At the same time you can't give Goode preferential treatment, especially as a freshman, and say "you don't want to work as hard as everyone else? We'll let you because of your massive talent." That becomes cancer in a locker room quickly.

Agreed. Don't know if that's a blanket statement, or response to me, but I'm not arguing that at all. I actually appreciate the decisiveness of the staff. They identified Goode as a non-contributor, or not a culture fit, moved on quickly and opened up a scholarship. It sucks because they were depending on him to contribute this season, but Tech didn't dig the hole any deeper.

That's counter to how Adonis was handled. And the same with T-Hill too. Fuente mentioned numerous times with Hill that it was the sum of transgressions rather than one that resulted in his dismissal. Again, the argument is they could have parted ways sooner, not midway through the season, and recruited another player to fill the spot.

It was a response to you (as well as a general statement), but only because I misunderstood your stance.

As for Adonis and Hill, I can't explain why they went the route they did with both of them. At the same time, we somewhat had the same thing with Beamer's staff throughout his 29 years. Most guys received plenty of chances before finally proverbially hanging themselves while a few, for whatever reason (school policy, etc) got one shot and that was it. I'd even argue some (Marcus, Cody Journell) received too many chances.

I hear you and agree that by the time these events took place the outcome was inevitable.

I just wish that someone was able to get through to these kids to improve their decision making. Communication and empathy with your subordinates is an important, learned skill that Fuente appears to have much room to improve on.

Cam Goode is the smoking gun here to me. With the others a whole lot of people have come to the staff's defense with the "more happened behind the scenes everyone doesn't know about" thing. And it's true, there's no way for us to know that.

What we do know is that Cam Goode got literally a few days before he was ushered out. They invested resources into recruiting him for months and months and moved on from him in a matter of days. That sure leads me to believe the other guys had less of a leash than a lot of people think.

He was there almost the entire summer.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Even with the skuttlebutt surrounding Goode's departure, at the very least I conclude it's a missed evaluation.

Unfortunately, even that comes back on the coaches.

Agreed.

This. Beamer's teams in the 90s through early 2000s weren't the poster children for discipline. Beamer gave them chances though, and they regularly responded well. When they didn't and continued to fuck up, he kicked them off (e.g. Marcus Vick). Adonis and Mook had their fair share of issues, but you have to wonder if the repeat fuck-ups had more to do with Fuente not putting forth any effort to help them improve and less to do with them "not figuring it out." I mean, they're barely in their 20s. Expecting them to figure everything out on their own is ridiculous. We're not Alabama where when a player can't figure it out, there are three more 5-stars there to replace him. Fuente can't continue to uphold this "my way or the highway" attitude, or he'll only find success at the G5 level.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

No.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

JJ had academic issues and a possible plagiarizing scandal. He was given options and eventually righted the ship. Mook was charged with a class 5 felony - even if Fuente wanted to give Mook another chance and extended him every opportunity to better himself, Fuente was hamstrung by the school's policy. Adonis was, apparently, given many opportunities and didn't heed the warnings. Short of hiring support staff to follow every player around 24/7, I'm not sure what more can be done. Most of this is presupposing that the staff did nothing to help, which seems to be false given the sprinkling of insider info we get.

We know nothing of what goes on behind the scenes in regard to how these guys' disciplinary situations are handled. Every school has support staffs, and every school says that they do what they can for these guys, but do we truly know what's being done? No. The best we can do is compare programs to one another and see if there are any glaring discrepancies.

Additionally, students typically don't survive plagiarism accusations if found guilty. By all accounts, JJ's grades weren't his issue. If he was caught plagiarizing, you'd think that he'd be kicked out of the school. Not really comparable to Adonis in my opinion.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

You're correct, we don't know everything that's being done to help each individual, but your argument isn't any more provable beyond your own opinion that it seems little is being done. Refer to Joe's response above regarding Adonis in 2016 and 2017. Short of complete transparency regarding academic or personal issues and the remedies offered by the staff and school we won't get a complete picture. The privacy and legal concerns far outweigh my desire to know everything that happens to help Player A. Honestly, if Player A is having a private personal issue that causes his dismissal, but that staff did everything they could to help Player A, do you honestly thing Player A would want the entire department, school, town, and nation knowing why he was dismissed? A lot of the lack of transparency is designed, like it or not, to protect the players.

I don't think comparing programs is going to provide any reasonable insight. What program is the standard? UNC? Baylor? (insert name of Adidas sponsored school)?

You're right, my argument isn't provable. I'm just forming a theory based on my observations that have taken place since Fuente took over in 2016. None of know what happens behind the scenes, so your opinion and mine are both purely speculation. Why didn't Adonis have any issues in 2015 though? He had issues in 2016, 2017, and didn't even make it to the 2018 season. And it's not transparency regarding how one player is handled rather the entire program. After the 2005 season when we were really started to develop a reputation as a very undisciplined team (mostly stemming from Marcus' stomp and later dismissal), Beamer became very transparent with how he was going to handle the program. He didn't necessarily disclose what players were doing, but he had an explicit plan, and the program was better for it. Keep in mind, we reached the top 5 in 2007, 2009, and 2011, and won the ACC three times after that.

I have to disagree with you regarding how you might not think that comparing programs offers any reasonable insight. I'm not referring to massive academic scandals, sexual assault cover ups, or whatever shady thing each Adidas school is involved in because that seems to only be exclusive to those schools. Every school deals with what VT deals with for the most part with an exception to the Galen Scott incident. I believe it's completely fair to form opinions and theories based off of comparisons.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

I disagree. Being talented is no excuse for violation of team rules, repeatedly.

I want to win, I want to have good players on the team. I want to have a program with integrity more.

I'll say this, and you can believe me or not- but there are a lot of issues that happen in Blacksburg, Va. during the course of a year with student athletes that the Blacksburg PD and Andy Bitter don't know about. A lot. In terms of a certain DE booted off the team this year, let's just say his publicly reported issues are only a fraction of his off the field resume. And I'll leave it at that. And 99% of P5 coaches would dismiss a kid charged with what Mook was charged with and involved with point blank- nevermind the chances that mook was already given.

I have often said I would rather lose every game than have the kind of players some winning teams are famous for.

I was hoping Fuente would not put that statement to the test. I was hoping he could recruit good kids, keep them disciplined, AND win the occasional football game.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Also notice that all of these players (in addition to being Beamer holdovers) are on defense. I'm curious if Foster and Wiles are 100% on board with their dismissal. We'll never know, but seems like like more than coincident that only legacy defensive players are bad seeds. Maybe those are the type of players CBF was able to turn into dominant defenders or maybe Fuente picks on hat side of the ball.

Under Fuente, 3 of our 4 losses at home have come at night.

Can we just play the remaining games on the schedule at 3:30 or earlier?

BRING BACK NOON KICKOFFS!!! /s

Not sure we can bring back the Terror Dome until we start winning at night....

At this point, I'd be fine with a noon kickoff - it's the one of the only normal game times offered that we are still undefeated this year.

We haven't even played any nooners this year, closest was W&M at 2pm.....oh wait I see what you did there.

Speaking of, if you could really clone a fuller right now, you'd be the hero we all need, and one Foster deserves.

This one really hurts. The worst part is, the writing was on the wall but I was trying to be cautiously optimistic. There's just no excuse, experience and attrition aside, to get that maylayed at the point of attack play after play after play. When they fumbled and we couldn't recover, I had a bad feeling about the outcome, but then a minute later when Savoy muffed the punt, I knew we were doomed. This is the first time I just don't have any faith in this program. I'm really concerned there's more to this story than just the broken record variables mentioned. Will always be a proud Hokie and cheer tirelessly, but this really freakin hurts.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

Torrian Gray was to Bud Foster as Bud Foster was to Frank Beamer

I mean if you want to forget 1995-2006, and then 2016-2017 sure that's correct. But Bud had a proven track record without Gray.

Im not defending this year's defense, they are underperforming and the scheme seems stagnant instead of evolving this year. However Bud has been a stud, and will be one again.

You can't evolve a scheme when your players are struggling with the basics.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Bingo. There is no scheme that doesn't require players to win one on one battles somewhere. The scheme can change who, and where those one on one's occur, but it can't make player win that battle.

Indeed, but there's a reason Gray is getting NFL money now.

As the game became more pass and spread based, Foster's ability to rely on his secondary allowed him to do a lot more schematicaly. Gray did an extraordinary job developing talent and creating coverage schemes.

Foster is the GOAT DC imo, and is a no-brainer hall of fame coach in my book, but the collapse in secondary production is telling.

Lol nah

Acting like our DBs were only good cause of Gray warrants that response. I mean that's one spicy take that doesn't even make sense chronologically

Why would you take it to that extreme? What in my comment made you believe I was saying the only reason we had good secondary play was because of Gray?

You took my comment, stretched it into something outlandish, then got angry at that manufactured outlandishishness, and replied with a brilliant "lol nah".

Amazing contribution to the community.

Because making the analogy of Bud to Beamer, who was the reason for success on D, implied that. Bud is many many multiples more important to the D under Beamer than Gray is to the DBs under foster. It was a dumb comparison, so I'm calling it one. It's OK. No none is mad. I was amused

I was going to post something like this after the UNC game. I looked up the numbers so I could cite some evidence. The numbers didn't agree with the thesis, so I didn't post.

If what you say is true, it is not confirmed by simple statistics like passing yards per game, and the argument will have to be supported by someone who has more energy for research than I.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Huh? Wasn't TG at Tech until 2015? How about let's put this on hold, and count the number of players coached by TG who land in the NFL, vs those coached by Mitchell.

How is this relevant to the GT game? He coached the secondary and we gave up 0 passing yards tonight. We got smoked in the trenches. TG wouldn't have made any difference.

a lot of people getting on bud today and last night. he D didn't get stops and blah blah blah..... he got 2 stops. on atleast 4 other occasions on what would have been 4th and not going for it range unless you are PJ or a teen playing madden but PERSONAL FOUL penalties extended drives. bud cant FREAKING go out there and play for the kids. yall gone leave bud alone. yeah its a rough year. and it shouldn't happen. im more upset about the defenses performance against UNC than I am GT, UNC should have scored 49 points. GT should have scored 21.

#Bapn ain't EZ

Wanna win put boobie in! Let boobie spin coach!

I don't think Bud is blameless here by any means, but there is a point where no matter how much you alter the scheme to help the young, inexperienced guys out or how well they know what to do, they still have to go out there and beat their man one on one. Regardless of the scheme, linebackers and secondary members have to get off blocks, the DL has to be disruptive and not get blown back 3 yard at the snap. At some point you have to beat the man in front of you and we just didn't have guys doing that. It looked like a combination of a few guys who were too worried about making a mistake to play with the fire and speed they needed to be effective, and the rest of the guys just were losing one on one battles.

I want to agree with you here, because an inexcusable number of personal fouls did cost us dearly in this game (as well as the ODU debacle). The coaches did not commit those penalties, but that fact does not absolve them of responsibility. The penalty yards we've seen this year speak to a lack of discipline on this team, which falls squarely on the coaching staff. I'm not ready to scream FIRE THEM ALL quite yet, but I'm starting to seriously question this staff. They need to get the trajectory pointed in a positive direction by the end of this year and make substantial progress in 2019, or things could get ugly.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Part of the lack of discipline is due to the sheer quantity of youth on the team, but, yeah.

Exactly. When a defense has very few penalties, everyone credits the coaching staff for preparing the team, teaching them technique, emphasizing the right things, etc.

When a kid commits a personal foul, the blame goes to the kid. When a defense has four personal fouls in one half, the blame for that is on the coaches.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

We forced one punt and got throttled by a team that did not complete a pass. We gave up 450 yards RUSHING. There is no way on earth to polish that turd performance. None. Did you watch the game? We got destroyed by their offense. Destroyed. Never came close to slowing them down.

How do you sign up to get a refund for this game?

To me it's this simple: we don't have very good players this season. Think about it this way, how many players on the team would you consider top-20 all-time at their position for VT? Maybe Ricky Walker and Damon Hazelton? How many are top-10? Probably none.

Now, we HAD some really good players who COULD still be playing for us this year. But they all play for the Redskins or the Bills or the Steelers. Or they were kicked off the team.

No coach in football is going to win with their best players not wearing your team's uniform. Since Fuente has gotten here, there's been a shocking amount of players not completing their eligibility for one reason or another. I really hate to say this, but that's a sign of a coach not fully in control of his program. How do you fix that? I don't know, but that's the $3.5 million dollar per season question.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I agree, and we honestly had an irregular amount of attrition, especially for a team that doesn't recruit in the top 15 every year. There were a lot of comments about how "everyone has attrition" and "next man up," and while both of those statements are true and the other guys have to be ready to be called upon, this was not a normal offseason of attrition, most programs do not lose as much as we did. We lost two R-So to the NFL draft in Tim Settle and Tremaine Edmunds, that's two more years of potential starting for each. Then we had R-Jr Rell Edmunds go pro, that's another year of potential starting gone. Facyson and Stroman left after their senior years, we got everything from those guys, great job. However, it unfortunately lined up in a year where we also lost BOTH of their prospective replacements after Webb was hurt and Adonis became academically ineligible. Okay well Mook has lots of experience at nickel/whip and played some free safety, perhaps we can move him around and help out our losses at safety or corner... kicked off the team. So that's what happened to our secondary.

Let's move onto the DL, because this is the part of the defense that can cover for the rest of the defense if they can play at a high level. Starting the year, we have THREE returning starters to our DL in Mihota, Trevon Hill, and Ricky Walker. House Gaines has played a lot of snaps, we should be fine. Well, it turned out Mihota had a slower than expected recovery from his ACL and seemed uncomfortable playing full speed at his new DT weight. So not really a starter for us, hasn't played much all year. Two returning starters left, but they are our best two, maybe we can survive this. Trevon Hill gets kicked off the team and replaced with Belmar, a guy I never thought would start at VT. So now we have one returning starter, and two guys I never thought would be starters for us (Hewitt and Belmar), and an undersized DE in Gaines.

It really was just a storm of bad timing and shit luck, with some bad decision making sprinkled in.

Exactly. Also to add, it was a lot of these guys' first time playing against GT. I was very puzzled by how we seemed to be letting the play come to us and conceding 5 yards a play though, didn't understand that for the life of me. I however wholeheartedly disagree with the people bashing the offense, I thought we looked excellent in the first half. How much of a rythym can you get in with two dang possessions in one quarter? And on a bright note, WE DIDNT GIVE UP A SINGLE PASSING YARD!!!!

Yeah, the secondary was spectacular on pass defense.

Sure helps the ol' passing yards allowed per game average, that's for sure.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Yeah, I agree with your last paragraph. DL is a huge concern. Think about next year, the starters would be Gaines, Belmar, Hewitt...and Porcher? Burke? Fullwood? DT is in a really bad spot, and no reinforcements there. At DE, if two of the three of Garbutt, Debose, & Proctor aren't starting next year, that's a really bad sign, I think. Belmar contributes almost nothing, and Gaines made some nice plays early in the year, but he is a skinny dude to be playing DE in this league. He's been getting tossed around pretty easily lately. Our DL will be one of the worst in the ACC next year if Garbutt, Debose, & Proctor don't step up.

I'm struggling to find any hope this defense will improve next year the secondary is making no plays that get me excited at all. Maybe it's just me but the defense scares me going forward

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I think it all hinges on how/if we improve the DL moving forward. Better DL play will make the job our of new linebackers much easier, and help the secondary out tremendously. A great DL can make an average secondary look like a really good secondary. A strong DL can make a world of difference.

I agree with that I'm just struggling to see how we get better next year over this current group

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

DL is the most impactful position group on the defense and it's been our single greatest failure in recruiting.

Given our awful record against the run this year, I knew this had to be the philosophy used by that other Tech out in Texas: offense is the best defense. When the fumgle and quick scores, half time then score happened, we all knew what that was. All over but the shouting.

Play hard from here on but get ready for a run "next year".

I been here since day 0.

I can't embed this, but its not an example of 'being young.' Its an example of being soft af, and being forced to play a position you have NO BUSINESS playing because the staff doesn't take recruiting seriously enough and clearly has severe issues managing a roster.

https://twitter.com/806_Progress/status/1055668362070630400

Come on man, don't call out a single player with a snapshot from a different game.

Oh we can't look at film now and call out bad plays and bad technique? This is on the coaching staff more than the player.

When Fuente came, his mantra was about putting the pieces in the best places to succeed. 3 playing CB is not doing that.

Farley actually tackled well in the GT. You're just mad and are posting irrelevant footage from another game. There's a difference.

Again, it is a clip of a player, yes - but please consider the macro message - is more re: the coaching staff, player management, roster management, lack of recruiting, putting players in the best place to succeed, etc.

and FWIW, 3 had one tackle last night, so I guess you can say 'he tackled well'

It's also a 7 second clip of film with no context. How did Farley get in that position? Was he covering someone else? Was he blocked into that position? Did he just horribly misplay his assignment? If you can't answer that, then you just cherry picked this tweet and are shitposting.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Hate to be devil's advocate but this clip was from this game I believe and last night I often found myself watching him dive head down at ankles on open field tackles and completely whiff all night or take terrible angles that made him run around defenders instead of to them 😬

That was not from this game. Look at the Crawl on the bottom of the screen. It shows the Bruins up 8-2 against somebody. They beat the Flyers 3-0 last night. They did beat the Red Wings 8-2 on the 13th, which is the day we played UNC.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Plus those very obviously not being GT's colors.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

The video quality is pretty terrible. All I could tell for certain was that the opponents were in white uniforms, which could have been GT. So I wanted to do a little extra checking to make sure before calling someone a liar.

“You got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

Biggest telltale sign - ESPN's scorebug has the visitors on the left, home team on the right. VT was on the left of the scorebug in that video.

I mean I remember seeing that exact play in a highlight on Sunday (since I generally don't watch road/bowl games) so I knew right away it was from UNC >.>

I appreciate this dude's commitment to referring to himself as a number and in the 3rd person.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Disagree with this article. You can't have all the defensive attrition we've had this past year and expect to somehow stop GTs attack. Anyone who thought we were going to win should share what they were drinking / smoking, This is purely a knee-jerk article (which I expect better from TKP, to be quite frank). We were paper thin at DL to start the year, completely inexperienced at LB, and lost starters at DB - again all before the season started.

Calm down. Relax. Trust the process. I'm just looking to see improvement and encouragement, and though it was hard to see it on the D / ST side of the team today, the O had moments. We need to just soak up this experience and learn from it, because the worst thing we can do is not. I remember when GT embarrassed Miami in 08 and then Miami destroyed them in 09 with the same chip on their shoulder. This is the type of response we need to work towards.

You can't have all the defensive attrition we've had this past year and expect to somehow stop GTs attack.

Duke held GT to 14 points
Pitt held GT to 19 points

And lets be honest for a second. We didn't just not stop GT's attack, we couldn't even slow it down. GT scored whenever they wanted to score. Full stop, period. Our defense was so fundamentally bad in every aspect of the game, we might as well have not been on the field last night. Our defenders were movable pylons for their offense for the duration of the game.

Yes, the team is young, but there is no hiding the fact we're just plain bad. We gave up 49 to Old Dominion, 45 to Notre Dame, and 49 to Georgia Tech. And if not for a miracle fumble, a late defensive collapse would have cost us the UNC game as well. We're just not a good team this year. We're just not. In fact, we're a lot worse than even the most pessimistic fan would have predicted before the season. The way we're playing, I don't see another win on our schedule this year.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

At halftime I said told the Hokies around me that we should just assume they will get 7 points every time they touch the ball and as long as the offense can keep up this will be a game. That fumbled punt was the turning point. We had the chance to go up two TDs on them, which I think would have altered their game plan, and we muffed it and never were the same since.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

So we have GT's defense and Duke's defense now? Their defensive personnel mimicks ours? Scheme too? Awesome!

And I don't see the point of your response to my comment. You're re-iterating everything I've said. We're not great this year at all on D, but that was to be expected BASED ON THE ATTRITION WE'VE HAD.

Attrition doesn't explain away how we weren't even able to slow down GT last night. We've had young teams before, very young, that would go our and at least get a hat on a man and slow down attacks. GT used and abused us at will.

Attrition is just an easy excuse for the actual underlying issues we have within this program that nobody wants to admit.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Attrition is just an easy excuse for the actual underlying issues we have within this program that nobody wants to admit.

Uh...do you have proof?

It's easier to go conspiracy theory and say there are underlying issues than to admit we're paper thin at certain areas and extremely young at others.

And you can't compare teams of past to today's team, or even teams of the future. They are all different.

Bottom line is if you believe in what Fuente AND Foster are building then believe in the process; it takes time. If you don't and expect quick results then you're going to sorely disappointed no matter which coach we have. Frank left this program pretty gutted and behind the 8-ball recruiting wise and that doesn't just magically change over a few years. We've gotten progressively better but it still takes time.

if you believe in what Fuente AND Foster are building then believe in the process; it takes time.
If you don't and expect quick results then you're going to sorely disappointed no matter which coach we have.

How convenient. Can't criticize the coaches now, because they need time (apparently 3 years isn't enough). And if you do criticize the coaches, you are an idiot because nobody could do better. So, pretty much shut up and take it like a man, right?

Frank left this program pretty gutted and behind the 8-ball recruiting wise

Our downward trajectory since he retired would run counter to that. Fuente coached up Frank's players very well. Of course, QB was an area we needed help with, but the rest of that 2016 team was all Beamer. Since then, its been a complete downward slide to the point where now we look completely incompetent on defense against the likes of Old Dominion and Georgia Tech.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

How convenient. Can't criticize the coaches now, because they need time (apparently 3 years isn't enough). And if you do criticize the coaches, you are an idiot because nobody could do better. So, pretty much shut up and take it like a man, right?

Pretty much because you don't have the insight to know what you're talking about. Simple fact that you don't. You sound like a little kid that wants to take protein once and then become Arnold over night.

I'm not suggesting we didn't shit the bed last night, but yours and others knee-jerk reaction is quite frankly sophomoric at best. Grow up. If you don't have faith then that's one thing - then go wear your tin foil hat all you want. Else, suck it up. Yes it hurts, but take positives and move on. The team will grow from this.

It's been mentioned ad nauseum by commentators that we're something like the 2nd youngest team in the ACC (or was it country?). You add inexperiennce with lack of depth and this was a train-wreck waiting to happen.

Pretty much because you don't have the insight to know what you're talking about. Simple fact that you don't. You sound like a little kid that wants to take protein once and then become Arnold over night.

Cool, so now we're going with personal attacks. Got it.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Lol cool story bro. You do you.

Fuente coached up Frank's players very well. Of course, QB was an area we needed help with, but the rest of that 2016 team was all Beamer. Since then, its been a complete downward slide to the point where now we look completely incompetent on defense against the likes of Old Dominion and Georgia Tech.

Wait, what?

What complete downward slide? Are you saying 2017's 9-4 (5-3) finish was a significant decline from 2016's 10-3 (6-2) campaign? I never felt like that was a precipitous dropoff considering the loss of Isaiah Ford and replacing Jerrod with JJ. The defense also went from being very good to being horrible in one season. If you saw signs of year over year decline indicative of a failing head coach, your post history over the last two seasons doesn't indicate it.

I just don't see the overall downward trajectory over 3 years of Fuente's tenure that you're insinuating. I see a sudden disastrous crash.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I have proof. Look at the roster on hokie sports... look at the upperclassman on the DL- all of them... There is your proof. Attrition has nothing to do with that- nothing. Yeah, we kicked trevon hill off the team- so what? We have recruited poorly for 5 years on the DL, and thank god Ricky Walker and Tim Settle were born hokies and bled maroon and orange - or it would be even uglier.

You actually didn't really prove anything at all. But I've made my point and I'm done feeding trolls.

How about this for proof... In 2015 DT depth was to a point that as a soph RICKY WALKER was asked to redshirt... A 4 star DT redshirting as a soph. DL recruiting under Fu has yielded 0, maybe 1 (Hewitt) impact players in 3 years. DL is the lifeblood of any D and these guys have not gotten it done on the recruiting trail. It's killed this D

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Attrition is not an excuse - it is the explanation. What is more likely, Fuente and foster forgot how to coach or we lost a boatload of our best players and are now playing kids that are much less talented?

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

This game made me cancel my Key Player membership after 6 years.

Sorry TKP, but I'm shutting down my interest in VT football this season. I've got better things to concentrate on in my life.

Well that sucks.

This site covers more than just VT football.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I've got better things to concentrate on in my life.

VT Basketball?

It's not just this game it's every game this season. The defense looks and is out played over and over again. The offense has come up short in key situations to often. I believe it is fair to question is it poor talent, coaching or both. Inexperience and youth is not an acceptable excuse for the Hokies play at this point in the season. Where is the leadership, the pissed off attitude on the field? Don't see it. Without it this season is only going to get worse.

Poor talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Some (maybe not all) of the attrition is the responsibility of the coaching staff. Lack of effort, lack of enthusiasm, lack of leadership are the responsibility of the coaching staff.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Some (maybe not all) of the attrition is the responsibility of the coaching staff.

Wait. How?

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

It seems that CJF's Hokies play better on the road than at home (ODU being the exception here). I can't help but wonder why this is. Is there something different in the routine leading up to games that could be evaluated here.

In true road games the team seems to play more disciplined and focused. What could be done different for home games to keep that edginess?

I would say UNC is an exception too. We played like trash and easily could have lost that game.

I think we set a school record for fewest passing yards allowed last night. So that was good.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

3 straight years , still waiting for the destruction

georgebd

I will always have faith in Bud. He is and will always be among the very best. However, this program has lost continuity. Being the Coastal King for so many years running, and winning so many ACCCG's provided continuity to the program. This meant that there were always players on the roster who had been there before and who had done it. In regards to the ACCCG, that has been gone for many years now. The transition to Fuente went as smooth as anyone could've expected, because Bud maintained a certain amount continuity, which kept the program's identity in place. But with the early NFL draftees, the numerous dismissals, and graduation of a few key seniors, all continuity on the D seems to have been lost. Not to mention the fact that Bud has entirely different staff aside from Wiles than he did just a few years ago. While we have all noticed some exciting improvement in talent, depth, and play making at the WR position, Fuente has had no continuity at the QB position.

It seems all continuity has been lost. New staff, new schemes, new players, with no one other than Bud and Wiles who have been there and done it. We used to say that at VT we never rebuild, we reload. Those days are long gone. Bud and Fuente are in the process of a complete rebuild (not just in talent but in a winning culture), and the results this season have made that a brutal reality.

I have faith that Bud and Fuente can get us back to where this program once was, and possibly beyond that. The biggest question I have in mind is, how many years will it take and does Bud have that many left in him?

Buzz and Co. have been ahead of schedule from day 1 in their rebuild. Fuente and Bud probably had this year circled as a potentially big one, and many things have just not fallen in their favor when it comes to QB continuity and defensive attrition.

The good news is we are still in good shape in the coastal this year, but we have to take some pretty big steps forward if we want the bowl and LOLUVA streaks to stay alive.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

I should also mention, that despite everything I said, I am still excited about a lot of the players on the current roster. I love the way Kumah and Hazelton play. I think Tre Turner is going to have a great career, and he will learn from those two drive ending drops last night. Ashby will be the best defender on our team his senior year, and may earn All Conference honors.

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

The problem that I have with the program in general is how we've been told things are going to be so good down the line only to see the team as a whole get worse year after year. And maybe things will be better down the line, and maybe these recruiting classes will pay off in a couple years. But for the here and now seeing the team consistently backsliding like it has been, with the on field play getting progressively worse game to game?

I dunno, games like last night are really testing my faith in every aspect of the program right now. And really, where I'm most concerned is on defense, which just looks to be a hot mess. We couldn't slow down that attack last night if our lives depended on it. We looked lost, we were undisciplined, we were passive, and we were soft. It was the most un-VT defense I've ever seen us field, and if we're supposed to believe our future greatness as a program is going to be built on the foundation that squad is laying, I don't know how you can't be worried.

Offensively, they at least looked competent for the beginning portions of the game, until GT got up by enough we panicked. But a few offensive decisions in that first half really hurt us over the course of the game. Primarily, that first punt on 4th and short from around midfield. GT had just gotten momentum after the muffed punt which allowed them to tie it up. We needed to respond with points, especially with our inability to slow them down defensively. We needed to score on that drive to hold serve, at least until halftime where Bud might be able to make an adjustment to help. And at that point, we were still picking up first downs with ease. Going for it was the right call, and we punted. Predictably GT marched right down the field, scored, and we never scored again until we were down by enough it didn't matter. People will point to the Savoy muffed punt as the turning point, and it might have been, but that decision to give them the ball back... that was the final nail.

"Some days you’re a horse and some days you’re a horse’s ass. I’ve been a horse’s ass for a little while." - Roy Halladay

Where is this narrative of sustained yearly regression coming from? 2017 looked a lot like 2016, and the defense was good both years. This year the defense is awful, but Willis is showing some improvement.

I think you might just be getting worked up.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I'm starting to regret my username...

Tough to be college football fan. OSU lost 49-20 to an un-ranked Purdue team last week, and they have all the resources and recruiting highlights a program can ever hope to have. Against PSU, their offense looked as bad our defense did last night, and they can't run the ball at all (they threw over 70 passes against Purdue). Just putting that out there for a little perspective + hoping it helps take a little of the sting out of last night. Even the best programs struggle (see PSU, OSU, Oregon, Miami, FSU...). It's apparently really hard to get this right.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Defensive line is a big worry for me for the future . 3 years of lack of recruiting at DT position is on the coaches . DE is yet to be seen we have some young bodies there but not much production from any of Fuentes recruits . I have no doubt LB and DB will get better but man every damn play our DL and LBs getting pushed back . I saw Mihota 15 yards back on one run .... losing ugly like this and ODU will only hurt recruiting . I feel much less optimistic about the near future for the program more than ever .

I agree with almost everything you said except for who to blame for our terrible defense. The defensive failures falls on Foster not Fuente. He's been here for 32 years and these are his recruits and scheme. FU gets all the blame for the offense and terrible play calling!! Each of them built their name on being a D or O genius. Right now, I'm not seeing it from either of them!!

Of course Bud has some to do with it too . Totally not saying that all . Coach Fuente takes a part of it too since he's the head coach . Just like everybody blamed recruiting problems on Beamer .

ESPN Talked up the intro again, which is cool, and then Pat Forde Called VT out on having no home-field advantage. At this point in time, we are just an intro. Home-field advantage is gone I hate to say.

Frankly I'm fed up with the offense. It's year three, there needs to be some things that click and have some games where we can score more than 21 against a legit opponent. And this was not a legit defense we were facing. Towards the end of the game that blonde smoke show sideline reporter even had a small bit on how GTs defensive coordinator huddled up his defensive backs and told them to bait Willis because he could tell where the ball was going to go each time. That scares the shit out of me. I was under the impression this was going to be a fast-paced offense that would be able to move the ball and put up points with mis-direction. So far it hasn't at all this season.

Finally, I think we should stop playing Thursday night games. They don't have the same luster that they used to back in the mid 2000s. Those games are reserved for MAC teams with a high-powered offense. I would've rather played this game at noon on a Saturday to not get our asses kicked again in front of a national audience.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I hadn't posted for years until last night. Our performance gave me a lot to vent about! Most are blaming Fu but not Bud? Why? I've read Fu may or may not have his players etc which may be legit excuse. Bud what about Bud? He's been here for 32 years and these are his players. He recruited and coached them. I've said for years his philosophy of undersized defensive ends does not work against top D1 talent. Top teams have 6'3 - 6'5 tall & 260+ lb DE's that don't get blown off the ball. And this is not my first time posting my opinion on this. I remember discussing our staffs beliefs that D-lineman need to have a twitch etc and size was not a priority. I said then speed/twitch is awesome but size and strength is more valuable. Players that have both twitch and size would be a heaven sent! There is a reason we have a poor record against top 10 teams (I'm thinking 2 wins). We usually get blown off the ball and spanked. Remember the last time we played Ohio State. Their QB shrugged off our top D-lineman like he was nothing. It looked like men against boys! Sure, Bud's D surprised them the year before with the blitzing etc and I they overlooked us is why we beat them. But once a good team has seen our D they dominate it. Clemson comes to mind. I'm a fan of Bud's and believe he helped bring us to where we are now. But without the Mike Vick era would we have been considered a top tier team? What brought us into the spotlight is special teams and MV7. We have been mediocre since then and If we don't improve soon I'm afraid we will decline back to the teams of the mid to early 80's! Most of you don't remember those teams but I do. We where considered a basement dweller with a lot of potential!! I believe Frank and Bud had an opportunity after the national championship game to build a true powerhouse and they squandered it. We had the name and revenue and instead of spending it on recruiting and facilities someone (in my opinion) filled their pockets. Now we are at a critical juncture and if we don't right the ship we may digress to basement dweller status again? I'm hoping I'm overreacting but after what I witnessed last night I'm not holding my breath!!

Live look at PJ


(and to be honest this gif always makes me laugh even though I hate GT more than any other team)

As far as this game, I've already stated my piece....thought we would lose but.....

via GIPHY

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Is it me or do Paul Johnson's jowels grow bigger every time a chop block isn't called?

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

So let's count up the number of talented defensive players that we've lost. We'll start with the secondary, as French rightly points out they were awful on the QB sweep and counters that GT gashed us with ALL NIGHT LONG.

Webb - out for the season
Adonis - kicked off the team after being given TONS of chances to right his ship, currently on the Redskins
Stroman - senior graduation, currently on the Redskins
Deablo - injured and gimpy (yes, I'm counting this because his injuries seriously hinder his effectiveness)
Terrell Edmunds - first round draft pick to the Steelers
Facyson - graduated, signed with the Chargers as undrafted FA, still on the team.

Who has the depth to lose four projected starting defensive backs (and one drafted player who was right to go) in one season and have a good secondary still? Not many people. That's compounded by the complete overhaul of the front seven, lest we forget who was lost there. Let's take a look at the DL we have had to replace this season:

Hill - kicked off the team for a tantrum in the locker room (supposedly)
Mihota - recovering from a serious knee injury, being slowly eased back in
Settle - drafted by the Redskins
Goode - kicked off the team bc DL don't run apparently - not sure he'd have even played much

Sure, that doesn't look completely awful on paper. But those plus Gaines and Walker (who isn't a prototypical run stopper) are the 5 best DL on the team. If we had Hill to add to Gaines and Walker, the DL would look a good deal better. So DL isn't awful, but lacks depth.

Let's take a look at the LBs...

Motuapuaka - senior graduation
Shegog - senior graduation
Newsome - senior graduation
Reynolds - kicked off team for violation of team rules
Tavante Beckett - kicked off team for marijuana (not a felony though)
Tremaine Edmunds - first round draft pick to the Bills

I'm not saying Shegog and Newsome are the most amazing LBs. But they were still seniors, and have been under Foster for 5 years. Losing that experienced depth is killer. The rest...well you can see it.

Let's recap: from the 2017 season defense, you lost:

- 3 very talented players to the draft (safety, LB, DT - Terrell, Tremaine, Settle)
- 3 projected 2018 starters in the back-7 were kicked off the team (DB, LB, DE - Adonis, Mook, Trevon)
- 3 projected 2018 starters essentially lost to injury (DB, DB, DE/DT - Webb, Deablo, Mihota)
- 5 experienced seniors (DB, DB, LB, LB, LB - Stroman, Facyson, Motuapuaka, Shegog, Newsome)

So, you lose 8 players (basically 6 starters and 2 depth LBs) in unavoidable circumstances. Then you go and lose 6 of the projected starters that are supposed to be the next men up or reprising starting roles for the 2018 season. The only projected starters that were starters on the 2017 team are Ricky Walker, Reggie Floyd, and you could make a case for Houshon Gaines. Out of your 2017 2-deep, you lost fourteen (14!!) players. We should've all expected this, but we've been spoiled by Bud. So, lose 14 players from last years two deep, then have 3 projected starters for 2018 go out with injury. This looks like a high school defense because IT IS A HIGH SCHOOL DEFENSE.

I only hope that something is happening on the recruiting front on defense. Offense looks OK, if young. I'll leave you with an image of how all Hokies fans feel...

tl;dr...but meme sums it up pretty well.

Edit: went back and read it.....

via GIPHY

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Certainly a good perspective here. My only response would be that the unit seems to be regressing this season, not growing. On top of that, both individually and collectively, this unit cannot execute basic fundamental tasks that high school players execute every Friday night. There's something deeper at play here, I just don't know what it is.

Is it football season yet?

I'd say its an almost complete lack of talent, as French has alluded to. Having "just good enough" players at a few positions can certainly work, but you NEED some defensive playmakers. Outside of Gaines and Walker a little bit, there are none that I can see on this defense. The entire defense seems to be made up of young, inexperienced players that are on the "just good enough" talent level (outside a couple that French has highlighted). That's no way to play against a team that wants to put a hat on a hat and make you man up.

I'm not looking forward to playing AJ Dillon and BC next week.

I'd like to expound on the "we should've expected this" bit in this post.

The lack of transparency for this program especially with them constantly asking for funds from fans and alumni is extremely disheartening. More open practices could've prepared the fanbase for stuff like this, but Fuente has locked down the entire program.

This is supposed to be fun. Athletics are supposed to be "rah-rah, this is fun for the student body and alumni and whoever to come together and be fans!" and that's just not happening.

I definitely agree that opening up the program is a good idea. I don't think any of the top programs keep their shit under lock and key like we do. I know Clemson doesn't, I know Alabama doesn't, they had ESPN at their mf fall practices filming all August and playing on ESPN seemingly every time I turned on the TV. I genuinely don't see the point in the secrecy.

Its not like we have something to hide at this point.

Is it football season yet?

Live look in at me (physically) after last night's game but after reading War Hokie's observations:

via GIPHY

Couldn't agree with this assessment more! My lengthy post below speaks to this reality, and others. Too bad I didn't reply to his post with my post (granted I wrote my post before reading his), because we seem like we're thinking along the same lines.

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

Great post with great points!! I've tried to use the loss of defensive players as an excuse for our poor play 2ll! But, when do the excuses stop? What about last year and the year before? GT beat us with a full compliment of players. At some point we need to look at the captain of this sinking ship. Our defensive recruiting has been less than desirable for years. Some even questioned if Foster even went out on the recruiting trail. I know he did/does d/t he came to my nephew's school to recruit him a few years ago. Now back to the point. We've had undersized D-lineman for as long as I can remember (DE especially). Our coaches talk more about having a twitch than size or strength. I'm tired of being built up as a contender when we are really a pretender. We have 2 wins against top tier teams!! I think Kirk Herbstreit has come to the same conclusion. Go back and listen to his pre and post commentary of the ND game!! He said VT will need something more than a good entrance to win!!!! I think he believes we are now nothing more than a entertaining show! Like I said, I agree with you overcoming the losses we've had on defense this year would be hard for most teams but if we exam our past our defense has been wanting for years. I may be a little more critical of our team d/t my UVA friend is already calling talking smack and it's becoming increasingly hard for me to argue with him!!

Thank you for taking the time to flush out the details of my thoughts exactly.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Another way to spin it is...

The Hokies lost to GT last year, and the year before that WITH all of those guys on the roster. Why all the shocked faces?

Paul Johnson = Fuente Kryptonite. Deal with it.

Leonard. Duh.

That's not why Hill was kicked off the team...

Please, tell us more...

That's fine, but I have literally 0 confirmed information from the school in a press release to say anything concretely. That's why it says (supposedly) after the reason.

Leave it at "Hill was kicked off the team" if you prefer. Nitpicking that little fact doesn't change the comment at all.

I know this point has been hammered nonstop throughout the vent thread, but I keep coming back to the realization that a lot of underclassmen got thrust'ed into a situation when Alexander, Webb, Settle, Mook, and others exited the program for various reasons. I don't think this is an excuse by any means for them not to perform up to the level of past VT defenses, but I do believe that you have to be an extraordinary talent to hit the field as a true freshman, or even a red-shirt freshman/sophomore for that matter and execute at a high level (i.e a 5* talent at Bama). So let's be real and honest with ourselves and say these kids weren't recruited to wear "that particular hat." Many of them were mid-high 3* talents, or low 4* talents that were recruited with the intent of being developed. That has been the mantra of VT defenses for YEARS. We've taken a diamond in the rough and made it shine after an off-season or two of weight training and film study, and technique refining. I truly believe the attrition that we had through all of that into the trash-bin, and forced this staff to do their very best at compressing that schedule into a live-real time season's worth of meaningful games. The fan base was on cloud nine when we went down to Tallahassee and got a W, I was right there myself. But we are quickly seeing after the ODU's and ND's and GT's of the world humbled us, that the compression of a season and a half of off-season preparation can't be compressed into 7 games worth of a season. Should there be improvement, sure! However, there should be regression too, and be mindful a lot of this progression and regression usually occurs in practice, while the starters are actually preparing for a meaningful game. We don't have those starters, we have underclassmen who have been put to the fire, and have been burned time and time again this year. Take Farley for instance, we all see he has other-worldly athleticism, but we can all agree that he could use an off-season of physical growth in the weight room, a tackling intervention, and a class on getting your head around and high pointing the ball. But no, he was asked to start because Alexander couldn't adhere to academic standards, and Webb tore his leg to shreds, so here we are. Seven games of live regression and progression on the field instead of in practices, classes, and interventions.

Now don't get me wrong, the coaching staff bears responsibility for this. They recruited this "talent" to Blacksburg. They released the players that were troublesome for various reasons. THEY made those decisions, and those decisions are reaping little to no fruit at this point. I don't care who's on the field, Bud has to see that for one play a bear front blew up a GT play, and he has to pepper that more and more into the defensive scheme just to keep the offense honest. They weren't going to pass unless Marshall was in the game and everyone in that stadium knew it, yet the scheme rarely changed. Those freshmen/sophomore/bench riding upper-class-men were shell shocked when they seen that offense, that is predicated on pristine execution. They played on their heels instead of confidently challenging the gaps, because they didn't want to mess up, and it showed. That GT offense will demoralize you, and after the defense worked relentlessly to stop the offense ONCE, that muffed punt took all the air out of their sails quickly, and it was all downhill from there.

Fuente has to see that Ryan and the offense went cold and he has to be willing to put QP in, or Hooker to generate a run or two that will keep the defense guessing. Fuente has made maddening calls, last year's 4th down pass downfield comes to mind, but it's that whole Les Miles approach, either he's the mad hatter, or he's just mad, and that heavily depends on if the play works or not. The team HAS to execute those mad-hatter plays that they are apart of ( other examples that needed execution: Savoy's muff, and Tre Turner's numerous dropped passes, Ricky's unwillingness to just FALL on the ball). That is who Coach Fu is, and we have to appreciate that aspect of him, because when Dabo makes that call to push the issue we applaud his gall, but we only do that because he has a team that executes regardless of the scenario. Does the talent on the field help mask some of those bad decisions? Sure, I'd give you that, but I also think execution plays way more of a role than talent, you can have all the talent in the world and under-perform (see the recent Michigan teams prior to this year). I think last night was a perfect mixture of failure on all sides rearing it's ugly head, coupled with the "compressed development" time failures. It was a perfect storm. We still have destiny in our own hands. Do I feel confident about it? Not really, not from what I've seen so far this season. At this point I'll take a bowl game and a win over UVA, and I honestly feel THAT's asking a bit much of this team.

I just don't think it's right to go all haywire and prisoner of the moment and call for BudFu's head YET. The coaching staff preached at the beginning of the year how little development was coming along and that's when we had Hill, Webb, Cam, and Mook in the fold. They were relentlessly trying to keep the fan base in the circle of trust, letting us know that two deep at every position wasn't occurring at that moment over the summer. So now we're expecting that lack of two deep at critical positions to go out and execute and assert their will just because they've had 7 games of experience? The team has served us a lot of false hope this season, and honestly for that, I'm thankful this morning. I'm thankful that this unforeseen rebuilding process of our program has been a bearable one. I'm thankful that we haven't fallen flat on our faces, but that we've fought as best as we could in certain games. I'm thankful that even though our experience cupboard is bare, those kids are working their butts off in the face of adversity.

A team in our position with a cupboard full of raw 3* talent coupled with departure after departure would've folded easily. I think we need to take our O&M glasses off for a moment and see that. Yet here we are, two games away from keeping the bowl streak going, and still in control to go to the ACC championship game, which we ALL know is highly unlikely, but when has UVA, WF, Syracuse been able to say that during their rebuild YEARS? We get 1.5 years of hardship after the departure of an icon like Frank Beamer and we pout and stomp our feet and demand answers and firings. We call icons like Bud Foster, garbage, and we spat on all the years of his service to our college. Thirty-two freaking years of blood, sweat, and tears that man has poured into our program, and some challenges with the triple option and mobile QB's and we're willing to forget the years of top 10 defenses and stud after stud that's made it to the league. We're willing to table the statue plans of the future because of the current disappointment. All because we want a national championship right now, at this very moment. As a fan base we're supposed to want that, we're supposed to demand excellence. But that's what separates us from being on the sidelines, and REALLY being on the sidelines at home on our couches.

Don't get me wrong I want more, I want W's, I want the national championship, I want success, I want to be the toast of the ACC. I'm sure these coaches want that two, but for a moment, let's step back, and realize, that they've been dealt a difficult hand (some of their own doing), and let's get behind them, and move on to the next game. And even if we lose to UVA, and lose the bowl streak, we're not going to walk away from the program we love. And hell yes we're entitled to call for heads to roll. But for a moment let's step back from this "immediate success or else" sports culture norm, and let's hope for stability, let's hope for longevity, and let's hope these coaches can figure it out. Else that's all we become, is the next UVA, a school with continual turnover at the coaching position, an empty stadium, and years of rebuilding ahead. Let's not run a good thing off, let's fight irrational/emotional responses, that's all I'm advocating for in this lengthy post. I LOVE Hokie nation and all my peers. Just some balanced minded words the morning after. Hope it helps after the coffee and blur of last night leave your system this AM.
---------------
TL:DR: Go Hokies!

via GIPHY

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

Well done, sir.

Well done.

Appreciate that VTK, was fearful no one would read such a long post. I wouldn't have on most occasions cause my attention span is usually pretty low 😂. But honestly, writing all that was therapeutic, I often tell my wife that TKP is therapeutic for me after a loss. That was truly the case this go round. So leg for you for taking the time to read it. And thanks TKP for the familial atmosphere after W's and the therapy after losses.

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And—which is more—you'll be a Man, my son!

- Rudyard Kipling

Never heard this, thanks for sharing

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

"If" is on the wall of the family room.

This was my dad's favorite writing along with another that might apply here as well from Teddy Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat"

I for one salute the players and coaches for their efforts even when like this year they have not always prevailed.. And yes I was there in the stands last night until the clock hit zero-still yelling and trying to support the players even with no realistic hope of the win happening. That's what I think true fans do.
Just one fan's opinion- GO HOKIES!!

Way to go Bimbo!

Can someone explain the theoretical advantage of keeping the program so closed to fans and media? I am struggling to find what would outweigh the negatives it seems to have.

Somehow, today, I really don't care.

It seems, now, that it is so the staff can better mask just how bad things are right now in terms of experience and disciplined talent. Around the ODU aftermath I began to take note of how Fuente is very calculated in his responses when asked about what he likes from certain players, or what he has seen with their development. It's all, to me, calculated coach speak that tries to stay positive and hopeful without flat out lying.

The 4-hour stomach ache has turned into a season-long stomach ache. And my fervent hope is that it doesn't turn into a decade-long stomach ache.

Everyone knew this would be a down year. Sure, no one expected to lose games in the manner that we have, but we expected to lose games. Turns out we're just not a good team. It is what it is. Hopefully these lumps now will only make them better down the line. Who knows, maybe the cliche of "just wait until 2020" might actually be true. Until then, I'll just ride through the bumps, watch every game I can (frustrating as it is), and continue being proud to be a Hokie.

Yes. I'm one of the more staunch defenders of the coaching staff I would say. If by 2020 we aren't playing some serious football and making serious coastal runs, 2021 is the year the seat gets warm. Until then I'm along for the ride hoping and praying.

Given the state of donations to the Hokie Club, this is probably the most rational position to take. We don't have the resources to be paying Fuente to no longer be our coach, while paying someone else to actually coach the program.

For anyone who is getting frustrated with Fuente, it's actually more important than ever to donate to the Hokie Club because without a significant uptick in athletic revenue we simply can't afford to pay Fuente's buyout, especially if we want to remain in any position to enter into a bidding war to retain Buzz, should other programs come calling.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

As much as I hate to say it the best thing that could happen to the athletic department in the short term financially would be for Buzz's contract to get bought out, even if it gets negotiated down from $15m. Hire a new coach at a lower salary and open our options elsewhere.

I hope that none of that transpires though. I love Buzz, and I like that Whit has us trying to compete across all varsity sports.

Edit: LMAO this caught a DV? Y'all need to realize I'm not even advocating for this to happen. Chill.

You all know I meant another school buying out the contract, not us, right?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I don't see 8 figures walking in the door from anywhere else. I don't want to see it either, but fundraising wouldn't get us that kind of money in the short term.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Well yeah but by that metric the best thing would be for Fuente to quit of his own accord so we don't have to pay a buyout and he'd actually owe the athletics department money.

Buzzketball is way closer to competing for a national championship than football is right now.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

You're right. Either way that scenario isn't going to play out for another couple seasons of bad football, and Buzz's buyout would be much smaller by then too anyway.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

So, quick question. Was I the only one very disappointed when after our last touchdown we kicked it deep. Yeah, we were down 3 TD's but even GT was expecting the onsides kick. Kicking it deep, Fuente had made the decision that we had lost and just given up.

I was honestly hoping we were going to come out and onsides kick it to start the second half. At that point, we were only down 7.

Not as confused as I was when we were down two TDS, around mid field, defense show no signs of life, and we punt it

Not really. There seems to be some sort of mutual agreement between coaches whether both sides are still trying to contest the outcome, or both sides agree that it's "garbage time." GT was playing second-string defense and running out the clock on offense. If we had tried to make an issue of it, they would have put the first string defense in, stopped us, and scored another TD.

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

You're not the only one. There have been multiple times where Fuente has elected to punt when we needed to go for it, or kick a field goal when we need a TD, or outright refuse to try an onside kick. That's not why we lost, but I would at least like our coach to try to win games. Don't think that's asking too much.

I was honestly hoping we were going to come out and onsides kick it to start the second half.

Let's face it, the way we were playing on defense, we were damned if we did, damned if we didn't!

Pretty sad, but I was asleep by that time, probably because of my extreme disappointment in our ineffectiveness, mistakes, and especially our defense.

Ok, I'm no football coach, but I think you need about three things to happen to stop the triple option - playing good assignment football, getting penetration, and solid tackling. We had none of that last night. Truthfully, I don't ever recall our tackling being that bad. With that GT quarterback running as much as he did, we should have put a hurtin' on him, Aside from the Ladler targeting hit, which before the targeting rule would have been considered a pretty clean hit, we didn't get any good hits on him.

We gotta play like we want to win, and I saw no fire in this team last night. That's extremely disappointing.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"You boys in there smokin' rope?"-Johnny Unitas (circa 1973) to his San Diego Chargers teammates

We've been spoiled as fans for decades now. Even our recent "down" years were at or above .500 win percentages with bowl berths. I'm only 31 and as much as I don't want to believe or acknowledge it, I know that I cannot expect not to experience some truly rough stretches of Hokie football in my lifetime.

This prompted me to look just to baseline my own expectations about football in general... Looking over the last 20 years, Alabama of all teams has actually had three seasons with a losing record - 2000, 2003, and 2006. Two points I guess I can make about that:

1) Even the blue bloods have rough patches, and
2) In Alabama's case, there was a new head coach hired the very next season after said losing record (the exception being Mike DuBose's first season... i guess he got a pass)

I remember a few years ago when a friend said he graduated from Ohio State, another friend said, "They used to have a football team, didn't they?" That seems like a long time ago, now. And if you want to see a blue-blood that's still struggling, just look at Nebraska or Tennessee.

There's a reason the bowl streak is a matter of pride: as easy as it is to get to a bowl these days, NO ONE has done it every year except us*. (And I still hope to remove that asterisk this year.)

"Our job as coaches is to influence young people's lives for the better in terms of fundamental skills, work ethic, and doing the right thing. Every now and again, a player actually has that effect on the coaching staff." Justin Fuente on Sam Rogers

Taggart is going to have to perform a bonafide miracle to get them to 6-6 if Florida State drops this next one to NC State.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Me trying to comprehend playing GT every season

Let's Go

HOKIES

Guys...it's okay though because we're a basketball school. /s

Can we change the picture up top from PJ at least to one of their players. God I hate his face.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

So is it the kind of face that you would steal and put on pile of horse manure or the kind of face you wouldn't touch?

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Option 1

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

We were there last night. Love the comments and observations. However, when Burnop interviewed Fu on the radio, he didn't seem angry and mentioned the process and adherence thereof. Last week, WVU got embarrassed by Iowa State and in Holgerson's interview, he was pissed to no end. I bet their practice this week was like boot camp. Too much blaming youth

foresthokie
US Navy Vet

So if we beat Miami and LOLUVA and win at least one of the other two games vs BC or Pitt, we win the Coastal.

All four of those teams are better matchups for us than GT was, so I think we can win any or all of them (but could of course lose all four without blinking an eye). If we beat Miami and LOLUVA then we have a pretty good chance of getting the division.

But the two most important games are the last two we play. Onto BC!

I dunno I can see UVA running slot of iso using the QB now....no bueno

Hate to say it but LOLUVA is a miserable matchup for us this season. They are a fundamentally sound team that doesn't do anything 'sexy', but does a lot of things well. The QB isn't the most athletic guy we will see all season, but he is mobile enough and strong (we can't tackle strong). And the D will most certainly give our OL fits as they stunt a lot. Willis will see some mixed coverages underneath which means he will hold on to the ball and take some sacks.

I'm not looking forward to the after Thanksgiving Saturday with some of the LOLUVA family.

Is it football season yet?

I agree. They will be able to exploit our edge just as easy as GT.

Is it Hooker time yet? Wouldn't mind the added demension of a strong runner at QB for this miserable offense. Not a slam on Wills, just looking to see if more HH involvement gives us some spark to the O

They are a fundamentally sound team that doesn't do anything 'sexy', but does a lot of things well. The QB isn't the most athletic guy we will see all season, but he is mobile enough and strong (we can't tackle strong)

You're not wrong but I've got Dook on line 1...that went ok.

Nothing for us this year is a gimmie but it was easy to see in advance that we were going to be noncompetitive with GT because of their offense/our defense. LOLUVA is not that.

There isn't a team left on our schedule that is so specialized as they are, and with our youth on D (athletic youth, but youth nonetheless), it's a much better investment to practice for general defense than to spend a ton of time investing in defending GT when we can give up that game and still win the Coastal. If I were Foster, I'd tell Fuente that the GT game was his to win on offense and spend my time preparing for everyone else

At least I hope this was the thought process.

Yeah, the Duke game... We did play well that evening.

UVA plays a much more complicated defensive scheme than Duke does. I really think that is the difference between the two. If the offensive track continues, both Willis and the OL will struggle with what they see against UVA.

Is it football season yet?

What!? Perkins not the most athletic? Dude is an electric athlete.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Yeah, UVA is a home game too, which is not a good thing for us.

After just watching BC road grade an experienced Miami defense while also having the ability to throw the ball really doesnt give me much confidence that this defense will do much to dent the Eagles offensively. BC averaged almost 5 yards a carry against Miami so I dont want to think what that number coukd be against our poor tackling, especially if they start most plays poorly positioned to attack the line of scrimmage.

With the Miami loss I see writings about now VT needs to win out. Looking at how bad we are on defense and how flat we are on offense, I am concerned we could actually lose out at this stage.

I think the bad defense was a result of the special offense GT was running. We don't look that bad against anyone else (ODU excluded). But with the Miami loss it changes the calculus a little. We are still facing an uphill battle given the remaining competition.

The defense will look the same as it did against ODU against any QB that can make accurate deep throws under pressure. Thankfully, looking at the remaining schedule, I'm not sure any of our remaining opponents have that.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

I think the bad defense was a result of the special offense GT was running. We don't look that bad against anyone else

Really? Here is how our D has performed outside of GT & ODU.

Duke: 327 yards and 14 points, although if Duke could have hit a couple of deep throws those numbers change dramatically. But, not a bad night.

ND: 441 yards and 45 points. Just like the Duke game, the QB didn't have a great evening with the deep ball. Had he hit a couple of open receivers down the field, those numbers change dramatically.

UNC: 522 yards and 19 points.

Outside of FSU and W&M, the defense has been pretty bad all season. And not just stat wise, they actually "look" bad and just about every fundamental aspect of defense.

Is it football season yet?

Eh, that's fair. The UNC game was pretty ugly but we won. ND wasn't too bad given their quality. Duke was ok but as you said we were playing with fire.

I suppose I might be hoping too much but at this point in the season I'm hoping we pull it all together at some point and start to turn a corner.

That shit totally sucked. But the sky is not falling. I get the desire to vent, but I feel like people are using Fuente as the punching bag. Our recruiting class rankings are back inside the top 25 and have been on an upward trajectory since Fuente got here. I hear the cries that we don't have raw talent on D, but have we ever had much more than we do right now/ will have in the coming years (based on recruiting ranking). Unless we have totally lost faith in Bud and his staff to develop talent, this ship will right itself. Will it be this season? Doubtful. Will it hurt a lot? Definitely. But let's have some patience. We're all looking at the same stuff, we all know year 5 is going to be the real tell.

we all know year 5 is going to be the real tell.

It was year 3, then year 4, now year 5....

It was the 19 class, then the '20 class, now 'we're positioned really well for 2021 guys'

Yeah, the year 5 narrative is starting to make the rounds.

For some reason it reminds me of those "Free Beer Tomorrow" signs you see in bars.

Longterm forecasting is tough to do, even throughout the fiscal year, businesses re-adjust forecasts to account for real world situations, changes, and deviations. Any Year 3 Fuente forecasts took an extraordinary hit because of a lot of unanticipated departures (both players and staff). That doesn't buy him a complete pass by any means, but a more valid criticism is, as a whole, Tech hasn't improved over the season. That's a blow to perceived coaching acumen.

A fair point, and I'm certainly not suggesting that we should never be critical. However, the most glaring lack of improvement has been on the defense, where I think it's pretty much Bud's show. I'm not hearing a lot of serious cries for a new defensive coordinator though. The offense needs plenty of work, but I think the receivers have taken a huge step forward in the last year, and I actually think Peoples has really shown improvement over the season. Willis has been pretty decent, especially in limiting turnovers, and certainly the coaches deserve some credit for that? O-line is up and down I guess, but not the glaring weakness of years past.

Could be totally wrong, but it feels like this team would be pretty serviceable with a decent D. That's what we all said we wanted. That should be the case in the next couple of years.

That was my biggest concern in the 'we'll be fine' thread. We don't look any better week 7 than we did week 1. Maybe worse, actually.

Sometimes when your team is losing, you just need to read a good book and escape reality for a little while...

Let's Go

HOKIES

I had hoped someone had screen-grabbed this!

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Say we lose to BC, which looks likely. Would anyone hate giving QP the last 3 games as the starter? Get him some experience for next year but keep his redshirt. Might as well get him some experience so the season doesn't feel wasted, and I don't really care about the bowl streak. I'd rather us aim higher and I really think the other streak ends this year as well (although I was sure it was over in 2014 and 2015).

I'd rather save the first start for UVA if we keep losing. By that point the season is totally shot and by far the most important game down the stretch will be against them. We will likely be overmatched going into the game. Save every element of surprise and curveball you can offer with QP for the UVA game.

I want preserve the bowl streak first, the UVa streak second. If playing QP means we do that, then by all means, but this team clearly needs the extra weeks of practice that making even the toilet-bowl games affords. So that needs to be a priority.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Hey fam...I found a wider angle of that muffed punt

Let's Go

HOKIES

The defensive line is not good this year and if nothing changes it will be abysmal next year. And can anyone tell me what Foster sees in Farley at cornerback. He is the worst tackler on a bad tackling team. And is consistently beat in the passing game.

Go back and watch the Florida State game. That's the potential he sees in him. Has he been playing at the same level since? No, but that's what he saw in him.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

And ignore the long run by Akers...

I do think Farley is improving in pass coverage and will be a good player. His tackling though is still well below average, but also improving. He seemed to have a good tackle for every missed tackle against GT.

I am more confused why Watts is playing so much over Quillen, but I am no expert.

I hear the arguments for roster mismanagement, and I do think some self reflection there is neccessary, but I don't understand the complete loss of faith in this coaching staff. Bud Foster is the greatest DC Virginia Tech will ever have, and has been for the last 30 years. Fuente took a Beamer team that would've AT BEST won 8 games, and took them to the ACC championship and a 10 win season for the first time in 5 years. The 2017 squad would have likely struggled to win 7 without Fuente. Other coaches have taken over teams with "stocked" rosters and have done much worse with the cards they were dealt. Fuente brought Memphis up from the cellar and they are still having sustained success from the work he put in there. This loss sucks, and this team is currently bad, but it does not negate 2 pretty outstanding careers of success.

Maybe it would help to reflect on what most of us thought of Greg Stroman and Andrew Motuapuaka in their soph years. Now imagine almost an entire defense constructed of those players. The results are not great, Bob. Give the coaches some time. There is no reason to assume the current roster is wildly less talented than previous rosters.

I still believe next year's team is primed for success and should be great (DL does still scare me, but rumblings are the coaching staff is attempting to address that via grad transfers/JUCO market). If they continue to struggle, then maybe all this doom and gloom is warranted. Not this year.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

If he's the greatest we'll ever have, why continue playing football? We've already reached our high water mark and it's all down hill from here.

People probably said the same thing about Beamer, Bear Bryant, Bobby Bowden... etc...

He's coached NC caliber defenses. We just haven't had the offense to match it. Not much more you can expect from a DC.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

That Eckrich makes turkey sausage right? Ad is very apropos.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

What? Low Country Jesus only at #4? The way the announcers gushed about him for 3 hours....

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

Where's Slept On It? Isn't that usually a Monday feature?

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

That game went and put Pierson in a coma poor fella.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.