Sun Bowl Musings and Program Perspective

I don't have many thoughts on the Sun Bowl. Tech trailed 10-14 at the start of the fourth quarter in a game where Logan Thomas got knocked out early in the second quarter. Keeping it close for that long was a mini miracle in itself. Then the wheels fell off.

Although you had to almost expect the game to get out of hand once Thomas exited. (The irrational fan voice in my head screaming, "We'll pull this out!," is never silenced though). And that's not an indictment of Leal's play or potential either. Scot Loeffler designed Tech's offense around Logan's unique skill set. Meanwhile, Leal took backup reps all season. It's unreasonable to expect Leal, or any other backup quarterback, to step into that situation against a good team and keep it competitive.

I thought Loeffler's game plan was rather crafty. Using Carlis Parker on Jet sweeps to exploit UCLA's linebackers inability to go east-west (something French noted in his previews) was a nice wrinkle. Parker ended up with 40 yards on 6 carries, all for positive gains. If he continues to develop as a receiver, he could turn into a big playmaker down the line.

Jerome Wright as the dive man on what looked like triple option looks (unsure if it's true triple option or called dives because I'm not the play caller) was another smart decision by Loeffler. Wright was effective, hitting the hole quick and hard.

If I learned anything about Scot Loeffler as an offensive coordinator this season it is that he's keen at developing a game plan around available talent. That reaffirms he was a good hire by Frank Beamer.

Let's all watch the following video.

My blood boiled last night when I watched that clip during halftime of the Peach Bowl. Whenever I hear someone talking negatively about Virginia Tech, whether it's the football program, university... or whatever, I get fired up. Like many of you, my heart pumps orange and maroon blood, and an affront on Virginia Tech causes me to respond like a family member is under duress.

Mark May and Lou Holtz aren't necessarily wrong here, but they aren't completely right either. May and Holtz are paid to give hot takes, spout hyperbole, and move the needle, not give proper perspective on the state of a program. Clearly that worked because their segment wound up on the front page of this website. Even in 39 seconds they took some liberties to stretch the truth to fit their narrative. However, they did provide a good dose of reality. With just 15 wins and 0 December trips to Charlotte over the last 2 seasons, it's hard to argue the Hokies are more than, "Another team in the ACC," as Holtz said.

Frank Beamer's program hasn't lost its identity. However, it is trying to reestablish it. Beamer hired Loeffler, Grimes, and Moorehead because he knew things had gotten stale on offense. Whether he cleaned out the cupboard too late is another argument entirely. "I want this to be the toughest football team we've ever had here at Virginia Tech." Beamer made that decree at the onset of spring ball because he probably saw the lackadaisical and undisciplined play a lot of fans noticed in 2012. Although, I don't think it's possible to provide profound commentary on toughness, or effort for that matter, from the stands. Only the coaches, players, and people in the locker room really know what's truly going on. I do believe tough kids battle through injuries. A lot of Hokies, including those who potentially have NFL futures to consider, played through pain and put in rehab work to move from the sideline to the field.

Virginia Tech wasn't going transition from a 7-win program to an ACC contender in a season. This is a rebuilding process that will take at least two recruiting cycles before improved results are evident on the field. The 2013 class was a big step in the right directions, and the 2014 group is shaping up to be an even bigger injection of talent.

Unlike Holtz, I believe Trey Edmunds is a terrific back, and is the workhorse that an offense can be built around. Loeffler must now build an offense around him, and other backfield talents like Marshawn Williams and J.C. Coleman that can compliment Edmunds. I think mostly everyone who reads this website believes offensive line play is moving in a very positive direction, and Jeff Grimes' unit is only going to get better as he brings in talent more tailored for his system.

There are two things I hope to see during spring practice and August camp.

An open competition at quarterback needs to happen.

Leal's earned the right to be No. 1 headed into the spring, but talented prospects like Andrew Ford, Brenden Motley, Bucky Hodges, etc... should have the opportunity to unseat him. Let competition, and all its benefits, determine who should take the snaps against William & Mary.

Special teams gets fixed. Beamer's unit has been steadily slipping for some time now. Its decline may be part of the overall bigger problem, drop off in talent across-the-board, that the coaching staff is working to correct. Either way, special teams is Frank's baby and of all of Holtz's and May's criticisms it was the most valid. I'm not even talking about getting back to routinely blocking kicks, everything outside of the punting game (which hasn't been flawless) has been inconsistent and in disarray over the last couple of seasons.

Is this program what it once was? No. Is Frank Beamer and his coaching staff course correcting? Yes. Should we trust Coach Beamer to get the job done? I do. I think the experience of his early years at Tech, those spent building the program, will serve him well going forward. Moreover, I believe he's delegated staff responsibilities in a logical manner, something that got out of whack (sorry, couldn't resist that pun) with the O'Cainspring offense, and the new coaches he hired are capable to get the job done. It's just not going to happen overnight.

Comments

Is this program what it once was? No. Is Frank Beamer and his coaching staff course correcting? Yes. Should we trust Coach Beamer to get the job done? I do. I think the experience of his early years at Tech, those spent building the program, will serve him well going forward. Moreover, I believe he's delegated staff responsibilities in a logical manner, something that got out of whack (sorry, couldn't resist that pun) with the O'Cainspring offense, and the new coaches he hired are capable to get the job done. It's just not going to happen overnight.

Couldn't agree more, Joe

This game was a great display of "Murphy's Law." Sometimes things break your way, and sometimes they don't. Yesterday, fortune just wasn't on the side of the Hokies. Injuries to key personnel just created insurmountable problems to overcome.

It might very well be time for a Special Teams Coordinator to be appointed. But The Frankinator is just fine where he is at Head Coach.

I dunno why, but Leal's footwork really seemed to hamper him the whole time. That will definitely need to be addressed in training.

It's always a great day to be a Hokie

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804. Hokies, Keydets, Army Black Knights, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and ATL Braves.

I thought the same thing watching Leal-he seemed to get the dreaded 'happy feet' and took a long time to get the ball off. I was impressed with some of his throws, and I give him credit for walking into a tough situation.
But, we need a good/great spring and it's exciting to know that Ford will be participating with the other candidates.
I think Loeffler will go with the whomever is the best for the team.

I won't even click on May's smug face here. Thanks for the perspective Joe and Happy New Year everyone.

"Mark May and Lou Holtz aren't necessarily wrong here, but they aren't completely right either. May and Holtz are paid to give hot takes, spout hyperbole, and move the needle, not give proper perspective on the state of a program."
As was said above, Mark May is paid to drum up hype and his credibility has been dropping like a stone. Last night in the run up to the Sugar Bowl, he made a prediction that Alabama would come out running explosive plays (they did) and would win by a huge margin (eh, nope). I think he said it would be more than 21 points, perhaps he said more than thirty. By half time, he was trying to change the subject. Oklahoma ended up beating Alabama 45 to 31.

Great perspective, Joe. Thanks for being the voice of reason. Injuries were the story of 2013 between Malleck, Vandyke, Exum, Kyle Fuller, Trey and even Logan last game were huge detriments to our game. There has been some huge attrition of this program, but we're definitely heading in the right direction.

As for pride & joy, it's hard to be dominant when you've told everyone your strategy and you don't put starters on special teams anymore. 2015 will be our year.

In Beamer & Co. We Trust #Livefor32 #DecadeofDominance

Great perspective, Joe. I feel the same way. I saw the Holtz/May segment live and it was like a gut punch. Mostly because there was a small kernel of truth in what they were saying, but like you said, there was a lack of subtlety in the analysis. Those are the kind of statements that other fan bases use as evidence that we're terrible. I think we're a program that has declined but is ready to ascend. Beamer has built this program from nothing, so I think he and his staff are fully capable of taking a decent team towards being a great one again.

In 2014, I hope to see continued improvements in the fundamentals and I hope to see young talent compete for playing time. On defense, Bud reloads and we play well. Maybe not quite as well as this year, but I don't expect much drop-off.

I think 2015 and 2016 will be vastly better. Hopefully Loeffler will have groomed his chosen QB (whoever it may be) and the rest of the offense will have coalesced within his system. Grimes should have the line playing at a high level by this point, as well, again through player development - his guys. It is during these two seasons that we will see if our staff will function the way the fan base expects and if that translates into wins on the field.

Let the offseason prognostication begin!

I feel pretty dumb because I don't get the pun :(

Otherwise this was a good write up. I'm optimistic about the future of this program. I don't think (or expect) it will happen over night. I've said this several different ways over the course of the season, but I think Loeffler has done about as well as we could have expected given what he has to work with.

Unfortunately, we live in a society that has a short attention span and a "what have you done for me lately (yesterday)" mentality. It's hard to build a program properly under that type of pressure.

"Patience is a virtue, possess it if you can; Seldom found in Women.........and never in a Man" ~ I actually don't know who technically should be credited for this little saying, but I always heard it from my dad growing up. As you might imagine, patience wasn't a strong suit of mine

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

John Gruden made a good point. "The game of football evolves, so a coach must also." I love Coach Beamer but, the fact that other teams in the ACC that used to underachieve are solid teams now.
Maybe after next year we'll see how things are. If not, CFB may be getting like JoePa.

Being aggressive, being tough...that's the Virginia Tech way.

And other ACC teams that used to be good (ranging from respectable to conference powerhouse) are now underachieving. It's cyclical.

CFB can evolve all he wants, but he can't tackle for his defenders or catch for his receivers or block for his linemen or kick for his kickers.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

CFB can evolve all he wants, but he can't tackle for his defenders or catch for his receivers or block for his linemen or kick for his kickers.

But isn't the job of the coaching staff to prepare the kids to do those things, and to motivate them to do those things at 100% effort for 60 minutes? If they're not playing their best, part of the blame may rest with the coaching staff.

absolutely. The coaches get a lot of credit when a kid makes a pass or a cut or a tackle. When there is systemic failure across the board, it's on them too.

Sure, it's their job, and I believe that they do it well.

On the field, though, if the players take plays off or use poor technique, it's on them. They're grown men and have been playing the game long enough to know what to do (in most cases).

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

Can he put a ST on the field that won't lose a game or two every year? The buck has to stop somewhere.

yeah can someone fill me in on the pun? still not getting it

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

frank famously responded to a caller on tech talk live questioning the offense with "that's outta whack." it turned into this whole thing, there were tshirts and everything.

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

ahhh..okay..didn't know about that. Makes sense though...thank you for filling me in! have a leg!

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

I believe it was Jason in Arlington, actually. Just saw that he or someone like him is posting on this board nowadays.

yeah, i noticed the username. dont know if it's the actual guy or just someone referencing it.

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

Well, it's evident that Parker and Wright were very effective. Why not get them the ball more?

Still resembled last years RB by committee. I think Mangus should have more touches early on and Wright could have had more consecutive carries. *Discalimer* I'm not a coach, just venting.

Being aggressive, being tough...that's the Virginia Tech way.

I agree, I wonder if JC got the carries simply because he had more experience not more talent. I have never been impressed with JC when they have attempted to use him as a main back.

Looking forward to another year for Wright and Mangus to learn how to pick up blocks and hit holes. I think the lack of blocking is probably why they were behind JC.

Serious question, I know that people specifically blame CFB for the drop in special teams. I have heard or read differing pieces on whether he really runs special teams as a whole, parts of it, or very little at all. Who controls what in our different special teams aspects. Who controls our coverage, returning, punting, FGs, etc. Are any of the new coaches experienced with special teams?

CFB's calling card used to be to put starters on special teams. Up until he started doing that ST was widely used as an opportunity to get young, inexperienced bench warmers in the game to get a taste for the speed of the game. We simply out-classed other ST units because we used top notch athletes. Part of our struggles may stem from the fact that we don't have that type of talent advantage anymore. That can be attributed to the fact that most teams use starters on ST now coupled with our drop off in talent (thanks to incoherent recruiting 'strategies' by the previous offensive coaching staff)

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

This is definitely the way I see it. Frank Beamer changed the game of Special Teams. Unfortunately, everyone at this point has picked up that game and for us to be the top we need talent. That's not what we have.

That said, we have a coach who innovated the current game. We have a DC who is currently innovating the future game. That's really exciting!

We have yet to see Scott Loeffler's innovations, but something tells me he'll come up with a wrinkle. I liked what we saw out of the Jet Sweep game yesterday. I liked what we saw out of the Jerome Wright game too. Maybe we see more Jet Sweeps in the future? We also in two games in a row saw some gadgetry centered around Sam Rodgers. Maybe in the future we see more gadgetry centered around players with different skill sets? It's really hard to say though because these weren't the players Lefty wanted, so he was just kinda throwing things together.

I think Loeffler was adapting the O much better to the talent we had than than Steinspring ever did. Problem was, he didn't have much talent to work with. We saw many more crossing routes and throws to the middle of the field than we ever did with Stiney.

What do you think Loeffler's O would look like with talent like Eddie Royal, Ryan Williams, Kevin Jones, David Wilson, etc.? I'm thinking that it would look better than Steinspring's ever did.

Thanks for the post. What I like: 1) Leal's ability to stand in the pocket and throw strikes. 2) Jerome's tough running between tackles. 3) our front 7's motor and run-stuffing. 4) our receivers getting tough YAC. What I don't like: 1) Leal is too slow scrambling. 2) Leal doesn't have great zip or arm strength. 3) disappointed in poor tackling yesterday. 4) receivers have to catch the ball. 5) JC and Mangus are just too small for our system. Questions I have: 1) how can we employ 7 scholarship RB's next year? There is bound to be attrition...my guess is Mangus or Caleb transfer. 2) the young QB's, especially Durkin, have to feel real good about themselves right now. Who emerges? 3) will we redshirt Cline? Malleck will get 80% of the reps next season, maybe we should consider. 4) will Bud develop a wrinkle to stop scrambling QB's? It is his kryptonite. Last thoughts: yesterday was the perfect storm: injuries + a highly skilled opponent + an offense built to render our defensive attack useless. When we rush 6+, it leaves gaping holes in the flats and underneath. Give UCLA credit; they exploited our weaknesses, beat us man on man, and used our strength against us. I feel as though we are heading in the right direction, but we have to continue recruiting well-and better. It's hard to make filet mignon when you start with ingredients from the Dollar Store. Great recruits will help us crack the glass ceiling, and will turn that SPAM dinner into a meal to remember. Bon A petit Hokies!

Eat your vegetables.

I doubt Cline redshirts for a few reasons...

-He and Malleck will provide a great combo for 2-TE sets
-McCray is leaving the team
-If Cline continues to progress he may not stay around Blacksburg for 5 years. Just think of how well he did in a short amount of time (hasn't played football very long)

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

Our team is more sloppy than ever before. Missed field goals, penalties, and missed tackles are the three things that need to change ASAP. The latter two plagued us yesterday.

Twitter me

Injuries plagued us yesterday for the most part.

Although I must admit, given all the film on UCLA's QB, why did our blitzers not learn to break down in front of him until the second half?

This was pretty inexcusable to me. How many big runs did we give up because of what appeared to be a refusal to accept reality that he really was that good a runner? Either Foster missed on that prep, which seems highly improbable, or our starting D didn't internalize what Foster was telling them.

Having so much top-shelf talent injured on the sidelines has hampered this entire season though. I'm not going to sweat any of the losses, including this one. I'm proud of what they did accomplish, I'm excited by what I'm seeing from Loeffler, Moorehead and Grimes, and I am pumped by what's shaping up to be an epic recruiting class.

While I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't win 10 next year, I won't be surprised if we do win that or more. There is excitement and hunger on the team and in our coaching staff. And while we've had that before, we now have an Offensive staff that can focus that energy.

I don't regret this year a bit. I regret the last 5 when it was painfully obvious where the program was heading. And while I think Beamer was contemptuous of fans who pointed out the obvious (particularly when he said something like "if they think they can do better why aren't they coaching?" - as if that's a defense of failure), I am more than willing to give him and his new coaches several years to see their vision through.

Based on what I've seen this year, I think the chances are high for fans to enjoy an offense that doesn't require the QB to make something happen with his legs when the first (only) read is busted.

In many instances, Foster had the perfect playcall but the guy in position to make the play whiffed on the tackle. If Kyle Fuller was in, I bet a lot of those plays would've ended in a sack rather than a 20 yard gain. It's particularly devastating if you miss a tackle on a quarterback, because usually the QB will have tons of space to run beyond the line of scrimmage with cornerbacks and safeties trying to defend the pass.

I have the same respect for Beamer and Foster that the rest of the world has, but I have to say: the defense did not look prepared for that game. I have that same thought almost every year when I watch the bowl game. The peculiar rhythm of bowl game preparation doesn't seem to be a strong suit for our coaches.

I think Foster's D depends on his guys to make tackles and doesn't make allowances for special running talent at QB. We usually had guys in position, but they weren't as talented as the guy they were trying to tackle and there was no one helping them out.

Sloppy was all due to veteran players not in the lineup.
FG missed due to 1st FG attempt in a game by a new kicker.
QB scrambles killed us because our AA Fuller was not in the game.
That horrible decision was because of young Oline and an inexperienced QB trying to do too much.
Most of the other errors were due to F and So players trying to do their best but not having the experience yet.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

Really? What part of that post was offensive? I'll change it.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

I'm offended that you left out a line saying how awesome I am. I gave you a turkey leg though, because I believe in positive reinforcement.

I would have but all I know is your screen name and then everyone would have figured out how Unevenhanded I am.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

this wasnt the sloppiest game ever. it reminded me of some of the games back in the 02-04 seasons.

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

In terms of ugly, this game doesn't compare with whatever bowl that was with Rutgers last year ... ugliest thing I ever saw

haha yeah, that was pretty tough to watch. i was sure we were gonna lose 10-0.

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

Injuries plagued us yesterday for the most part.

A valid argument on offense perhaps, but not on defense. No doubt Kyle Fuller is the most dynamic defensive player Tech's had in ages and I think we're a top 2-3 defense in the country when he's healthy, but he's missed 6 games this season? Our team had plenty of time to adjust. I don't expect our defense to not miss a beat, but guys were in position and missing tackles.

In many instances, Foster had the perfect playcall but the guy in position to make the play whiffed on the tackle.

This happened WAY TO MUCH.

FG missed due to 1st FG attempt in a game by a new kicker.

When I complained about the kicking game, that was more a problem throughout the season, not this game specifically. Additionally, it was directed at Frank/Cody, not the current Branthover (Frank for being a special teams coach and not having a solid game, Cody for leaving us hanging game after game).

The rules of football include field goals so that if a team marches down more than 3/4 of the field, that team has the opportunity to score some points, even if you can't make it to the endzone. We have no playmakers on offense (not a shot at our players, but an honest observation), so we have to string together numerous 4-10 yard plays to move he chains. Our offense works too hard to move down the ball 50+ yards and not get ANY points.

Note that I am happy with the direction of the offense, defense, and recruiting. Hoping special teams will get cleaned up next season.

Twitter me

I agree with everything except for just a matter of degrees on 1 pt.
The defense was outsized impacted by the injuries to the best of the guys on defense.
The amazing athletes playing CB cannot match the impact of the loss of the other 2 being out because of their inexperience.

Foster may have some great players but without the experience, he can't draw up complex schemes allowing better QBs like we faced with UCLA to have an easier time reading defense intentions and smaller differences between pre-snap and post-snap reads.

edited to correct the autocorrect amazing back from amazon. Gotta laugh at autocorrect sometimes.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

yep...I am scared S%^%less about our LB group for next year. We are desperately weak there. We so need some real Mike back step up. Watching Stanford in years past and UCLA Wednesday really made me miss Tyler next year and our past years of hard hitting Mike backs.

“I hope that they’re not going to have big eyes and pee down their legs so to speak,” -- Bud Foster

That's a good post. I believe in CFB and will give the new coaches their due time...I also think they will do great things for the O.

Stay positive Hokie's!!

To be the man you gotta beat the man! Woooooooo!!

So...are any of the incoming QBs similar to Leal? I fear Loeffler having to scheme around Leal for 1 year, then having to readjust that scheme the year after, and two years from now we're still talking about a first year quarterback and folks needing to adjust to the NEW new scheme.

I think you make a good point, and I'm not sure any of the incoming QBs are that similar to Leal. For that reason, I don't think Leal will start. He'll be listed at the top of the depth chart going into spring and he'll have a chance to win the job, but I think Loeffler is going to build his offense around the talents he has in the younger guys and unless Leal is able to beat them at their own game he won't end up taking first team snaps by the end of fall camp.

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

Loeffler really likes Andrew Ford so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's not the starting quarterback this fall.

I watched the game on Tuesday and looked at things with bowl colored glasses on. The first thing I thought of when I saw QB6 go into the game, was "we'll finally, everyone will see why he was not in the games earlier in the year"

He won't be in next years either.

We are hyping these kids for a reason. They're good and what we want.

Plant a flag and forge ahead. The Hokie Nation is about to make some noise.

#anaxe10foottall
#choppinwood

Bigger, Faster, STRONGER...BUILT TO HIT

I would be VERY, VERY surprised. Loeffler may like Ford, but 1) not enough to keep him from QUICKLY jumping after another guy with a totally different style, and 2) certainly not enough to risk his job starting a borderline 3*/4* recruit at QB as a true Frosh over a r-Sr.

For a quick reality check, go back and look at the recruiting info for Leal. He was rated basically the same as Ford by Rivals -- both 3* w/ a 5.6 rivals rating; Leal ranked as the 26th rate dual-threat QB nationally; Ford the 27th ranked pro-style QB nationally.

FWIW, my eyes agree with Rivals and I just don't see where this "legend of Andrew Ford" stuff is coming from. He's a nice recruit and may end up a good QB -- or he may not. But he almost certainly will NOT be the QB in 2014.

Ability is a prerequisite they all havr it. Its about leading the off effectively. Leals got the inside trsck but its far from a done deal. Look at all the scrutiny logan got - expect the same for whomever the next QB is. Thats the only certainty at this point

Commonwealth Cup Champions since Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 4:05:00 PM EST

In my opinion, the experience argument doesn't really hold a lot of water. How much game experience has Leal had, little to none. He looked like a fish out of water against UCLA. He has practice experience, but only one year under Loeffler. If you read between the lines, Loeffer and Logan were critical at the quality of coaching received by Thomas under O'Cain. Leal is really only one year ahead of Ford, Durkin, or any of the other quarterbacks. Ford comes from a very solid high school program and was on the the camp circuit receiving all sorts of specialized coaching. Ford will have the benefit of spring ball. Leal's never received reps as the guy in college.

I'm not saying Leal is more experienced, but it's not a landslide. Also, consider the upside of playing Ford or any of the younger QBs. Unless you're confident Leal is an asset and not a liability, why not struggle with a player who will be in the program for at least 2 more years?

delete me

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

yy

This x1000 hence the sexy legs. Why would we waste our time with a QB that has less than 20 minutes game experience. We might as well start fresh, unless Le-Alllll (lol) wins the job outright. I don't see that happening but weirder things have happened. Ford is a good QB and we have had the discussion maybe 1000 times in the last week *'s mean nothing other than what they were against HS players. Leal was a 3* or 4* but in College he obviously isn't anywhere near that or else he would be playing.

Its like here's your 4* and then the minute you step onto the College field its taken away and you either prove your worth or you go home and find that newspaper/online article that still shows you're that 3 or 4* and live vicariously through that. Yes its tough but the athlete's/players coming out of HS now-a-days are freakishly talented and a guy that has sat on the bench for 3 years doesn't look so hot unlike those legs above

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

Sorry, what were you saying again?

Babcock...time to stick it in...again.

Fosterball

I find this argument very out of the box and just what we might need. Personally I would not mind scratching in the corner pocket a few times if we can make a decent run in the 2nd half of the season, possibly going to the ACCCG and building (and seeing) the future. It might not be fair to Leal but I don't really want a 1-year QB.

I think that he might make that decision sometime during the season, but starting him in game one would almost be like writing off the season IMO

Pas unpopular as it is, I think we end up using 2 qbs next season in order to win the most games. It outdated be a leake/tebow scenario or a glennon/Taylor. The one thing I am confident on is that a true freshmen will not be physically or mentally ready to take EVERY snap next season. It is inevitable that they would need some relief.

Agreed. When CFB said what he did about Leal, he was consoling the kid for having a really tough time in an impossible situation. It's the kind of thing a coach should say when his backup QB has just had his a$$ handed to him. I don't think there is any chance of designing the 2014 offense around Leal unless he proves that he has the highest ceiling of the QBs who show up in the spring.

BTW, I still don't know which syllable of Leal receives the emphasis. Is it LEE-al (like real or deal) or is it le-AL (sort of like "meow")?

That's how I felt about CFB as well. I really didn't feel like he was going after him. He was just saying that it was too bad that he got pushed around the field the way he did.

Whatever you do, don't ask Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb how to say any names. I almost dove into my TV after Verne Lutefisk when they said Chris "Magnum" for the 18th time. Isn't there some intern in the background that corrects them during commercials?

It's interesting what starts to irritate me when we're losing. And, I wish my last name was Magnum.

Class of '02. GO HOKIES!

I wish my last name was Magnum.

Would you be a Private Investigator and have a big moustashe?

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

I always see "le-AL."

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

I think that many people (including some on here) who say that we will lose 6 games next year forget that we have a relatively easy schedule with Miami ecu and gt at home and then some cupcakes and then wake forest replacing Maryland, also I don't see us losing to Duke twice in a row so I could easily see us going 9-3 or 10-2 with possible losses to Osu, Unc and Pitt

Hokie Hokie Hokie high

duke gave aTm everything they could handle...they're no joke. I wouldn't write off duke as an automatic win

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

No, but I would expect us to be out for some payback.

It's always a great day to be a Hokie

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804. Hokies, Keydets, Army Black Knights, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and ATL Braves.

Your right but I think that that is a game that we should win, also aTm does have a terrible defense...

Hokie Hokie Hokie high

Lots of great posts here. Duke lost their OC to Florida (I'm so sick of the SEC...). I realize that their HC has a lot to do with their Offense philosophy, but how it's executed will be affected by who the new OC is. So, their Offense will change some next year (in addition to player changes).

Loeffler does like Ford and we have the makings of some real good QB competition this coming Spring. The pro style QBs we are recruiting will reap benefits - and we'll have a backup with the same style which can only keep the system smooth when the inevitable injuries come. The lack of a similar backup has plagued us for a while.

Patience is tough, VT had been knocking on the door after 1999, then the past few years have been tough.

I applaud Logan Thomas as a person and tough competitor, (that Jack dump was awesome!) but I am glad the Thomas experiment is behind us. I really see him as a great TE in the Pros. I know we all wish him luck at the next level.

funny gifs

Let's remain positive for the next evolution that will be Hokie Football. Let's Go Hokies!! Its like saying: "I'm not leaving my wingman!"

Is this site gonna follow Basketball at all or are we football-centric (or football excessive compulsive)?

funny gifs

Pain is Temporary
Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever
Let's Go Hokies!!

there's some bball discussion around here but obviously we're pretty football-centric. sometimes games come and go with nary a mention on the boards. i personally wish there was more hoops talk but i understand there's not a ton of interest when the team isnt very good.

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

First...TKP is the best.

Second...TechHoops.com does a great job covering bball (the writers and posters are a lot like here).

We put the K in Kwality

You don't see us losing to Duke twice in a row? Really? Did you really watch them play? Beating us was no fluke .. they really were better. I don't know who they're losing, but I know who we are

Great post. I am eager for the off-season to see the Hokies continue to take steps in the right direction of where the program wants to be. I hope to see my Hokies climb back to the top of the mountain.

What's Important Now

Our house has gone ESPN silent over the past year and I must say, it makes games much more enjoyable. Over the past few years, ESPN newscasters seem to be anti-VT / ACC to the point of hilariousness and pro SEC to the point of insanity. For example, I find it interesting that 11 ACC teams get in bowls and in 9 of the games, the ACC team is the underdog and the ESPN "experts" act surprised when the ACC goes best case 5 -6 in all bowls. I am giving Clemson an upset vs OSU and FSU a win in the NC. It might be as bad as 3 - 8, although again, I think the ACC wins both BCS games.
I recommend all VT / ACC fans, just dont watch sports center and turn off the volume at halftime during the football games and come to TKP and post or read something of value instead. Go Hokies, 2014 will be a better year with the athletes we are now recruiting and the youngsters we have playing so well. I am sure that during basketball season, it will all be pro ACC now with all the schools added.

SCHokie

I'm really excited to see what the rushing attack will look like next year. I think one of the young guns will start at QB and Loeffler will want to protect them. With all the incoming talent at the RB position (and assuming the OL improves as much as I think it will), Loeffler should have all the weapons he needs to build a successful rushing attack.

I'll start to worry if after a few games the rushing attack isn't much better than it was this year.

I honestly expect Ford to start at QB, and hoping for Wyatt Teller to win the job at RT so McLaughlin can stay at LT

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

I think it's either Ford or Durkin. Durkin is very talented. He's not only a better runner than Ford, he also probably has a bigger arm. It'll be an interesting battle to say the least.

I think Teller will definitely make a strong push to start and I think Alston Smith could make some moves as well... Plus odds are that one of the #FlabFive cracks the starting 5.

I also think Durkin could start. I think his threat as a power runner is what drew Loeffler to him. The read option and Veer/IV plays that we've used with Logan would translate well with Durkin. I agree with you that he's probably got a bigger arm than Ford but I think Ford is a more polished passer. Of course, I'm not you or French and I've only seen a couple highlight vids on each player. It's hard to tell with such small sample sizes.

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

I'm with you on the young QBs, Teller and Smith, but I see all of the #FabFive needing a year or two in the weight room to bulk up a bit. They could prove me wrong and come in looking like Teller or Rogers, but I think we'll see 5 redshirts this year along the OL.

I think Durkin is way to raw to start next year. Durkin is bigger, has a stronger arm, and is faster, but his highlight video is full of scrambles and jumping throws. I believe Ford is the smart/cerebral game managing QB that Loeffler desires, and has a greater chance of being game ready come next fall (He's also enrolling this month unlike Durkin)

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

You think one of the five freshman will start on OL? Wow, I don't see that at all. I expect all five to redshirt.

I think we're likely to have a freshman in there. Why? Because who else is going to do it.

No one else? Miller is the only graduating senior from the line. Arkema might not return either. But there's a ton of OL in the program and 5 more coming in as true freshmen.

Returning starters include McLaughlin (SO), Farris (rSR), Wang (rSR), Benedict (rSR) and Gibson (rSR).

Benedict played RT this season but I can him moving inside to RG, or even being passed at RT and being the #2. (His mobility is somewhat limited because of his leg injury, so OG may be a better fit for him with the younger OT's maturing). Gibson has been hot & cold and if he doesn't learn to apply 100% effort 100% of the time he may find himself behind one of the younger players.

Shuman (rSR), Smith (rSO), Conte (rSO), Teller (rFR) are IMO contenders for grabbing that open starting spot or displacing a returning starter.

Then there's also Arkema (rSR), Chung (rFR), Pfaff (rFR) and Osterloh (rFR) returning. Jake Goins (rSO) might be back too.

Loria, Beamer, Wiley, Russell, Drakeford, Gray, Banks, Prioleau, Carpenter, Charlton, Midget, Sorensen, Whitaker, Bird, McCadam, Pile, Hall, Wilds, Green, Fuller, Williams, Hamilton, Rouse, Flowers, Harris, Chancellor, Carmichael, Whitley, Hosley, Fuller

Can we all take a minute and appreciate just how well McLaughlin did against a very, very good pass-rushing DE? I think he gave up one sack (on a VERY nice outside-in move), but for the most part, Barr was pretty much silent all day (3 tackles). Well done by a young LT.

Indeed, this has been overlooked. We had heard all pregame about how Anthony Barr was going to be a difference maker and that we had no answer for him, but they forgot that we had a freshman left tackle and a Rogers. Even Jack wasn't all that impactful (aside from catching shot puts). All in all, the only guy we didn't neutralize effectively was Hundley. That turned out to be a big deal

Even Jack wasn't all that impactful

IDK Horse. A pick 6 in a 1 score game is quite impactful.

Tweedy can run like a dadgum antelope or whatever. I like to use scalded dog. Do antelopes lumber? Cheetah, OK. He runs like a cheetah. He's fast.

That was more of a Leal impact. If a QB throws the ball straight at you with nothing but open field in front of you, it's required that you take it to the house. If you don't take it to the house, then you get to be an impact player.

Here' something to muse: Why was there no retribution for the Zumwalt hit that took LT out of the game?

Because VT is classier than that

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

In my opinion there's nothing classy about taking a hit like that from a player like that and not returning the favor in some way. Not suggesting anything illegitimate but the "stay classy" response doesn't impress me.

"An eye for an eye and the world would be blind" ~Gandhi

I didn't like the way that hit was delivered and I didn't like the way it was handled by the refs or the announcers. But you better believe if anyone from the Hokies made a hit like that on any of the UCLA players they would be immediately ejected and it would be embarrassing to Frank Beamer and the Hokies. I'm glad we didn't retaliate because we would have been made out to be the villain. I think it's good we took the high road. Besides, making a big hit on that kid or anybody else on that team wasn't going to bring back LT3. That game wouldn't have ended any differently.

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

I know of no high performing sports teams that didn't demand respect and a level playing field.

I know of plenty of "best teams", "most skilled" teams that got pushed around and never stood up for themselves enough to allow their skill levels to dominate.

Football, basketball, baseball, soccer, women's lax, women's field hockey. Maybe baseball is the one where it doesn't matter so much. You have to demand a level playing field. If the referees aren't going to do it for you, you have to do it yourself.

Based on the television broadcast and announcers, LT got blown up because he trucked over the LBs and such on that one play where he just wouldn't go down. VT was already "the bad guy" because the QB shouldn't ever do that...make a fool of the LBs? Whether he launched or not, he did duck and pull up to connect with Logan's chin/helmet.

Ghandi doesn't play O-line for the Hokies. And if he takes out my quaterback, Mahatma's getting crushed.

I'm actually surprised nobody from our OL, especially Miller, didn't knock him immediately after his hit on Logan. Just as a catcher protects his pitcher in Baseball, the OL often will get the last word on a player who hits their QB.

If it had happened in the backfield/in the pocket, I bet we would have seen that. LT had rolled far to the sideline, so the OL were a bit farther away from him than they otherwise might have been. For one of our OL to truck Zumwalt in that situation would have been risking starting a fight and getting himself ejected (and Zumwalt would have been a "victim" in that scenario). As much as the OL will protect their QB, I think the momentary pause present in that situation prevented retaliation, probably for the better.

There were plenty of plays left in the game. No doubt a clever O coordinator can devise a play that maybe isolates a linebacker in space for a crackback (above the knees of course) or some such thing.

I'm not keen on our players retaliating, and I'm even less enthused about the idea of a coach condoning such action by designing a play to try to single the guy out for pain. I said on the game thread that I wouldn't have objected to someone leveling him with a clean hit, but going out of our way to try to go after the guy is dirty no matter how you cut it and I think VT is above that.

If you check the replay, one of our guys did come by and have a word with him.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

Retribution will likely come in the form of permanent brain damage if Mr. Zumwalt continues his helmet-leading ways. Not saying that I wish that to happen to him, it's just one of the consequences that has come to others who play like him.

It really makes me appreciate guys like Kyle Fuller who repeatedly demonstrate sound tackling without thug-like hits. THAT is the kind of player and technique I wish announcers would highlight on TV. Whenever Kyle finishes up in the NFL I hope he returns to coach at VT.

Class of '02. GO HOKIES!

And how exactly do you retaliate against a defensive player without getting throw out of the game? Block him harder? I am assuming you are talking about something outside of the rules or something late after the whistle. Both of which would have ejected that player, run the risk of serious injury to Zumwalt, and would have been more damaging to VT than to UCLA.

Which wallet is yours?

The one that says "Bad Motherfucker"

I'm not saying anyone on the team should've done something outside the rules or even the spirit of the game. We aren't UVa or Miami. But teams that command respect don't take an intentional knock-out shot to the chin of their r-senior QB in a bowl game and shrug it of with "stay classy."

I'm not really sure what you expect our team to do...how do you propose we "command respect" from a team that took a cheap shot at our QB? How do we achieve that without breaking a rule somewhere? The only thing I can figure is we win the game....well we tried that and it didn't work. I just don't understand what you're wishing we had done. The hit was barbaric and if we had responded in kind it would be classless and I wouldn't have been proud of it.

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

Well, you have me there. The pancakes never seemed to materialize and winning sure didn't work. I don't have the experience or knowledge to say how you respond to something so intentional and egregious. I guess I would have been OK with a little "barbarism" from the tech bench in this case. Perhaps there just weren't the horses to pull it off...

You do realize he was penalized, yes?
We're arguing how illegal it was, not whether it was legal.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

Heh heh. PENALized.

Babcock...time to stick it in...again.

Fosterball

Am I the only one who thinks the officials got the call right? The hit was clearly excessive -- Logan no longer had the ball -- and appeared to be intended as payback for Logan embarrassing their defense on the previous run. But was it "targeting"? Is a QB who has just thrown the ball "defenseless" under the targeting rule? Ejecting the kid might have been just and fair and all that, but would it have been consistent with the rules?

The issue is with initiating contact with the crown of his helmet, which he appears to do. Even if he didn't hit Logan in the helmet, which it also appears that he caught him at the bottom of the facemask, I believe the terminology of the targeting rule is that it's either initiating contact to the head or neck or initiating contact with the crown of the helmet. Based upon how often the referees err on the side of targeting only to review it and determine that it wasn't and the player is not ejected, I was shocked that they didn't make that call during the game. If you're going to call it for unneccessary roughness, they should have called targeting and then reviewed it. If they review it and say it's clean then it is what it is, but the refs let it go and he did it at least 2 more times during the game.

The issue is with initiating contact with the crown of his helmet

I agree completely. This is the entire issue in my mind. FWIW, this is the text of the full rule. Note that targeting can be defined several ways. Article 3 is directly relevant and Article 4 can also come into play, because Logan had just thrown a pass. Either way you cut it, that was targeting.

Targeting and Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and initiate contact against an opponent
with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6)
(A.R. 9-1-3-I)

PENALTY15 yards. For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding
spot. Automatic first down for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with other
rules.
For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for the remainder of the
game. For fouls in the second half: Disqualification for the remainder of
the game and the first half of the next game. If the foul occurs in the second
half of the last game of the season, players with remaining eligibility shall
serve the suspension during the first game of the following season. The
disqualification is subject to review by Instant Replay (Rule 12-3-5-f). [S38,
S24 and S47]
For games in which Instant Replay is not used: If a player is disqualified
in the second half, the conference may consult the national coordinator of
football officials who would then facilitate a video review. Based on the
review, if the national coordinator concludes that the player should not
have been disqualified, the conference may vacate the suspension. If the
national coordinator supports the disqualification, the suspension for the
next game will remain.

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a
Defenseless Player
ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck
area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or
shoulder. When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6).
(A.R. 9-1-4-
I-VI)
PENALTY15 yards. For dead-ball fouls, 15 yards from the succeeding
spot. Automatic first down for fouls by Team B if not in conflict with other
rules.
For fouls in the first half: Disqualification for the remainder of the
game. For fouls in the second half: Disqualification for the remainder of
the game and the first half of the next game. If the foul occurs in the second
half of the last game of the season, players with remaining eligibility shall
serve the suspension during the first game of the following season. The
disqualification is subject to review by Instant Replay (Rule 12-3-5-f). [S38,
S24 and S47]
For games in which Instant Replay is not used: If a player is disqualified
in the second half, the conference may consult the national coordinator of
football officials who would then facilitate a video review. Based on the
review, if the national coordinator concludes that the player should not
have been disqualified, the conference may vacate the suspension. If the
national coordinator supports the disqualification, the suspension for the
next game will remain.

Notes to 9-1-3 and 9-1-4
Note 1
: Targeting means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes
of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or
a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are
not limited to:

Launcha player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and
forward thrust of the body to make contact in the head or neck area
A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with contact at
the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
Leading with helmet, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with contact at the
head or neck area
Lowering the head before attacking by initiating contact with the crown of
the helmet

Note 2
: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):
A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
A receiver attempting to catch a pass, or one who has completed a catch and
has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.
A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the
return.
A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick.
A player on the ground.
A player obviously out of the play.
A player who receives a blind-side block.
A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress
has been stopped.
A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

Thank you for posting the rule. I did not realize the "just after throwing a pass" bit was in there. On further review, the call should have been "targeting" and the player should have been ejected.

Watch the tape:

http://twitpic.com/dr0odc

CBS said this kid was co-MVP

I think he is a borderline criminal

If I had been in the game I would would never have let that hit happen to a teammate of mine without retribution... it is what it is... I don't consider that hit to be okay under any system of rules and I think that hits outside the rules allow teammates to pay back on any player on the opposing side

Maybe I'm not "classy" but I'm pretty sure there are alot of us on here who aren't that version of classy and who don't aspire to be

2014 is the most intriguing year for VT that I can remember. Every position on the team is completely up for grabs (sans DB). I have no idea where this team is going, or if they'll recapture that dominating form of football, but I'm excited to go along for the ride.

I'm pretty confident Trey is still going to be the guy next year

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

Depends on if he heals well. He will likely miss all spring practices and spring game. But, I hope you're right.

I prefer exciting years when I know we're talented and should be among the top in the conference.

you sound spoiled. The best VT fans are the ones who love VT win or lose and will come out and cheer their hearts out for the entire game. The best VT fans were fans before Beamer. The best VT fans were fans when nobody knew where Blacksburg was on a map. You...you sound like a punk kid who should be rooting for the team of the moment..like FSU this year, or Bama last year...get over yourself and just enjoy being a Hokie. Don't worry about how talented we are. Don't be dissatisfied because you don't know whether we're good enough to win the conference or not. Non of that should matter..it's just a game. You should be proud to be a Hokie no matter what. There is so much more to Hokie Pride than football...believe me

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

He just said he preferred. I don't think that classifies as a soiled fan (see what it did there). And let's be honest, we ALL would and do prefer 10+ win seasons with conference champs and bcs appearances.

Babcock...time to stick it in...again.

Fosterball

Blacksburg was certainly better to me before anyone knew where it was on the map.. and Frank Beamer was playing DB. I recall waking to incoming rockets with images of the Drillfield still in my mind's image, so don't preach to me about how special a place Blacksburg is. I know it as well as anyone.

As far as football, I know that it is just a sport and I am just a customer ... I can tell by the way I am constantly marketed to. The scoreboard doesn't give me scores as much as it tries to sell me stuff. But since I am just a football customer, I can be a discriminating one, thank you very much.

fair enough. It just frustrates me when people seem dissatisfied when we're not as good as they think or wish we should be...that shouldn't matter. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment. It sounded to me that if we're not guaranteed to win or contend for the conference championship it's not worth the time. If I misunderstood your comment I apologize for ruffling your feathers. It wasn't just your comment that set me off..just the last straw so to speak.

You're right, football is a product and we, the customers, drink it up. I'll always consume Hokie Football regardless of how good (or bad) they are. I love the team because they're Hokies, not because they're winners.

Thank you for your service

Go Hokies!

"I like to hit a home run early" ~ Whit "knows how to create a Buzz" Babcock

It's entirely up to you to prefer whatever you wish. I also prefer we win every game. It doesn't mean it's going to happen and it doesn't mean I like the team any less so.

I guess this is where I disagree with your customer comment. My grandfather graduated from VT in '39, myself in '99. And as you allude to in your mind's image, to the both of us Blacksburg helped define who we are and left long lasting, amazing memories. Memories that make me more than just a customer when it comes to the Hokies. I am a Hokie (not saying you aren't) and that means more to me that what a scoreboard sells, likewise for my grandfather. I don't care that I am being marketed to. In fact I welcome it because it's marketed to a base of customers to which I identify with and belong to, and I want to help support my team and school anyway I can. Which as a fan is mostly about being marketed to. I suppose that's what school spirit is all about.

So you can be a discriminating one. I prefer to be a passionate one.

I saw the same clip and felt like punching them in the face. It's quite easy for commentators to go on about a team losing their identity while totally ignoring the number of injuries. We're missing a workhorse tailback? Trey Edmunds is hurt. Kalvin Cline wasn't too shabby stepping in for Ryan Malleck considering he was a freshman (though he could learn to block). And freshmen Brandon Facyson and Baby Fuller were a refreshing tandem who both led the ACC in interceptions at points in time.

Live for 32. Ut Prosim. Let's Go, Hokies.

"Frank Beamer's program hasn't lost its identity. However, it is trying to reestablish it." My only concern w/ this statement is that, for the most part, our identity has been an average offensive team led by a dominating defense that won field position and contributed to the scoring. In today's game both the offense & defense have to be above average.

My confusion w/ yesterday's game, other than the poor tackling and multiple penalties, was no apparent spy on Hundley, when Foster had said he'd do that.

ChicagoHokie

Our identity, in the 90's and early 2000's, was a tough, pounding team, very similar to Stanford and Michigan State. That's why we pounded Texas and had a lead on FSU late in the NC game, our offense and defense WERE well above average.

The lack of a spy was not the problem. Lack of good tackling was. The guys were in the right place (ie. the same space occupied by Lumley), they just couldn't bring him down.

Agreed. Bud accounted for Brett running, and as seen on UCLA's first TD, Dadi was in line to make the tackle and whiffed. Jack Tyler was in position for the second TD run and missed again.

RealDiehl

I noticed the change (or the announcers did) later in the game, where we were pulling up instead of running full speed at the QB. It seemed to keep him in the pocket more and disrupt the short-mid pass. However, that's about the same time Leal took over for their offence and UCLA started being Oregon.

There is no way a single true freshman qb is going to stay healthy all season. We will be playing at least 2 qb next year. Remember Tyrod was a 5 star but couldn't take the pounding every game all game long.

That video of Holtz and May really didn't upset me. I agree with them, we have lost our identity offensively. For years now, the problem has been poor offensive line play, and it has gotten worse each year until this year where we have seen some progress under new OL coaching. Without a good OL, you just aren't going to win championships, or many games for that matter, unless the skilled position talent is fantastic, which it hasn't been the last two years. It's unfair to judge these new coaches on this year alone considering the product they had to work with, but I believe they are definitely moving in the right direction and we probably won't see the product of their work until at least another two years.

Defensively, this game (and season, for that matter) would have been much different if we have had Exum and Ky. Fuller healthy. The Sun Bowl spiraled out of control in the final quarter bc of those two picks Leal threw, maybe not necessarily out of poor defensive play. Our defensive identity is the same as it always has been and should continue to improve and be solid as long as Foster sticks around.

The old saying used to be "offense wins games, but defense wins championships." While I still agree with this statement, the game of football has changed quite a bit over the past few years. Offensive talent and spread/speed schemes are getting better. Going forward, it's just going to take a better offense to win the big games. We just aren't going to see a big upswing offensively after one year, it will take time, but I believe we will get there.

To me, these new coaches are kind of like cooks in a kitchen. They've walked in behind the old cooks with ingredients to make ham salad when they want to make chicken salad. Once they get the right ingredients, their final product should be a good one.... Or at least we all hope.

Go Hokies!

#SamRogers4Heisman

It's one thing for us to quietly agree, but it can't help the program when those guys are bashing us on national TV. Recruits see that, opposing coaches see that and point recruits to it, etc. Hopefully our guys can prove them wrong (Holtz belongs in a home at this point anyways).

I like the ham/chicken salad analogy. That made me chuckle. And it's completely right. Over the last few years, our offense has been mediocre, but capable of big, explosive plays. This year's team wasn't set up to do that OR run the offense that Lefty wanted to implement. I'm excited to see what happens this spring and next fall. Should be a fun time for Hokie football.

I just hope people that support the coaches today support them the first week in December 2014 with the realization that if we are luck we'll heading to the Belk Bowl. I think next year will make last season look like a dream. We'll have a new QB and while I think the oline and rush attack will improve, every team is going to stack 8-9 in the box and dare the new guy to beat us. I don't see that happening. Our D will take a significant hit next year. It was obvious that Kyle was the MVP of that D, we weren't the same without him (no offense to Tyler, who is a great leader). We only return 5 if every one returns who cans, so can't expect it to be as good as it was this year. So while I think the coaches are on the right track, we are in a serious rebuild as compared to a reload and the fan base has to accept that.

So a 7-6 campaign will be a dream compared to next year? Yikes, those are some dark clouds you have forming on the horizon. I'm not ready to say that we are going to be back to 10 wins and a BCS automatic; but we get Miami, UVA, William and Mary, Western Michigan, GT, BC at home next year. UNC, Pitt, Duke all have new starting Qb's as well, and Duke will have a new OC to break in. And Wake will have a new coach as is Wake. I think we can hope for something like 8-9 wins and could be bowl eligible without having to win the last 3 game; which would be an improvement over the 7-6 nightmare season.

Which wallet is yours?

The one that says "Bad Motherfucker"

I hope you are right, but realistically, I can only count W&M and Western Michigan in the win column. Obviously other programs will have their share of changes as to be expected in college football, but I just think we'll have too many to overcome next year. I think the future looks bright in 2015 as our kids get reps, just think we'll have some bottoming out to do next year. I just want people to remember like joe said its a more serious rebuild that I think we really realized a year ago and not go ballistic if we don't have a 8-9 win season.

"Realistically?" Have you forgotten?

#LOLUVA

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

haha just what i was thinking of! 10 years = win column.

I think you'd better rethink & prepare yourself

one of the best parts of the movie,

"you aint afraid of no man"

"thats no man out there"

"It's worth it right? It's worth it to lay it all on the line for your brothers!"

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster (both quotes)

I think next year will be rough too. All I want to see is improvement and good playcalling. I know we'll see a lot of mistakes due to all of the players' experience level, but we still need to put them in a position to succeed. So I think it's best to compare how they start the year to how they finish it. If we start seeing better execution each game, we should end up with a decent team heading into 2015. On the other hand, if we don't see much overall improvement, then that is not a good sign.

This is very true. My only silver lining is this: The O-line should be dramatically improved with returning 4/5ths of the current line, new starters, fresh competition, and an off-season in the weight room. If VT makes a decent bowl next year, it will likely be due to physical domination from the O-line and a solid rushing attack.

This season was slightly better than last-
needed the bowl win to solidify it
but coaches showing great signs for future
with recruiting and play calling.

I liked the fresh looks on Offense in the Sun Bowl.
Throwing them a curve with Parker and end arounds.
LT was knocked out early in the 2nd - so most of the game felt like
the O was treading water trying not to mess up.
Not very exciting viewing right there.

Commonwealth Cup Champions since Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 4:05:00 PM EST

I'm still absolutely furious that the hit on LT3 wasn't targeting. I've been hearing UCLA fans (and even a few tech fans) say it was a clean hit, but that's a complete load of garbage. Here's a tweet from Will Stewart with a very telling picture. I couldn't agree more. *rant over*

I agree it was targeting. He made several questionable hits the other day.

“I hope that they’re not going to have big eyes and pee down their legs so to speak,” -- Bud Foster

Yes, yes he did. I just can't get over how much he was praised for it. For the NCAA to crack down so much on these types of hits and eject guys for much cleaner hits, this was completely unacceptable. What's worse is how much the announcers/media have either ignored it or glorified it. Heck, this guy was ESPN's unsung hero of the game for his "big hit on Thomas." Disgusting.

I think they need to start calling targeting consistently or just let everyone start having a field day and do whatever the hell they want. Right now, a bunch of people have bad opinions on what is targeting and what isn't. For instance, one of the authorities on the new rule believed that the hit that Clowney put on that Michigan RB was targeting, but Clowney wrapped up and mainly made contact on the RB's chest. No way that was targeting, but the hit on Thomas wasn't.

NCAA consistency. That made me chuckle.

(Reference: Da'U, John Football, Glenn State, USC, etc)

We put the K in Kwality

I think they just argued and got a judge to accept that the NCAA is not responsible for player safety.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/eye-on-sports/24380786/ncaa-denies-lega...

Cowards. Our country seems to be filling up with them. Highly educated arseholes who make the world a worse off place. As long as its legal seems to be there motto.

I get what the NCAA is... hopefully the university presidents will see a need to put some muscle behind the most recent attempts to protect players, for better for worse, sorta like the NFL is doing.

Yeah, not only was the hit late, but dude didn't even try to wrap. It was a direct retaliation for LT trucking half the UCLA defense. Zumwalt sent the message that if LT was going to embarrass his D, then he would take LT out of the game.

Message sent and received.

VT has yet to reply.

An severely sprained ankle on their QB or best player is how Miami, FSU woulda played it back in the day. Oh, yeah, maybe that knee pops like it did in the Miami FSU game this year.

Just to be clear, you wanted one of our guys to knock him out of the game, right? The whole "eye for an eye" thing. I'd really hoped we were above that because I don't see the whole "if they do something to us, we're gonna do the same to them" thing ending in anything but a bunch of unnecessary penalties, ejections, fights, etc. Allowing our guys to go out and retaliate is basically saying that its ok to go out there and try and hurt other players.

I'm just as upset that he didn't get punished more harshly for what was obviously a dirty hit on Logan and the one he laid on Coleman later on but sending our guys out to deliberately do something to take him out is about as bad an idea as replacing Beamer with Lane Kiffin....or Time Cop for that matter

Just another gut-wrenching, can't breathe, I lost my voice, not now, did that just happen, just gimme this one, Virginia Tech Saturday

I'm furious as well and that was just a dirty cheap shot. That kid did it again later to JC and in other games. Would have loved to seen a DJ Coles crack back block on him for payback. That kid is a danger to himself and others and hopefuly he gets called out and learns not to play like this.

"Its like I told my bros, why even try to wrap up, the guy just threw a pass so he wasn't going anywhere. Who wraps up when they tackle anyway? I just go for the head brah." - Zumwalt

Seriously though, if not for this hit then any of the other two (one on JC and one on Mangus that I remember) he shouldn't have been in the game. I'm still not sure how you throw a flag on that hit but DON'T eject him.

At least Logan had an epic run for us all to remember him by. Say what you want, but I'm a damn proud card carrying member of the LT3 will be missed campaign. Wish he didn't have to play the dark knight and pay for the shortcomings of the coaches before him.

"We are better than we think, but not quite what we want to be" - Nikki Giovanni

Considering it is a call that they can video review and overturn IF wrong, it absolutely should have been called. Its a nasty hit and was stomach churning to watch. If you switch the jerseys, I still feel that same way.

Which wallet is yours?

The one that says "Bad Motherfucker"

Wow I swore it was a clean hit UNTIL I just saw this... that guy should have been packing after that hit! What a douche! I think he also had a helmet to helmet on JC later that game too.

And he's up on his toes, reaching.
He didn't leave his feet because Thomas' head kept him on the ground.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

I disagree. That's a bad angle ..the primary contact was to the chest, below the shoulders and the helmet contact was incidental and no worse than most plays.

But either way, it was either targeting or a clean hit. If it was targeting, call it! if not, then what in the heck was the unnecessary roughness call for? "Ah, please don't tackle so hard". Will Stewart is a nerdy internet wimp.

Clean hits don't knock someone out before they hit the ground.

If that's a clean hit, then the rules need to be changed. Luckily, it was not, but he still needs to be ejected for a hit like that.

Also, I'm not sure where you're seeing any contact with the chest. Even if you argue he didn't make contact with the head and Logan mysteriously jerked his head back and lost consciousness, the contact was most definitely to the shoulders at the lowest.

#thingsiblamethemvsfor

The angle that shows precisely the opposite of your opinion is a "bad" angle?

Gentlemen, the debate is over. aOH's logic is impeccable.

Troll? ^

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

It was unnecessary roughness because it was a late hit.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

I judge clean and dirty hits by the angle of the neck. If the head is bent back, then you're guaranteed to perform a clean hit and form tackle. If the neck is bent forward, then you're leading with your head, which has been deemed dirty hits due to the concussion causing nature.

His neck was bent forward, and thus leading with his head. The primary contact was in the chest and chin, leading to a concussion. If his head is bent back, and his arms wrapped around Logan's body, then he hits the chest only.

In my case I think intent can be derived by whether he wraps up.
That he's on his toes trying to reach high and no wrap is an attempt to hit him as high as possible.

Danny caught that ball.

Friends don't let 5 star friends commit to UVA.

I never take the ESPN chatter too seriously (unless they're praising VT of course)

one example: during the (whatever) Bowl yesterday if I heard him correctly-
the ESPN announcer (whomever) described the North Texas Green Machine Defense
as 'the best in the country" ... or something to that effect.

I will say nothing more to this point.

Commonwealth Cup Champions since Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 4:05:00 PM EST

Guys maybe this did actually happen. Kudos to Chazz Michael Michaelzz for the pic
lol

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

All that is missing from this photo is the bed Frank and Company used

Which wallet is yours?

The one that says "Bad Motherfucker"

ayyy I see what you did there. +1 Legs

"I'm high on Juice and ready to stick it in!" Whit Babcock

Mark May is a moron! The game was still very close and with Logan in the game going into the 4th it would have likely stayed very close. I believe the Hokies would have scored another 10 pts with Logan in the game at that time. When he went out they were driving and would have likely pinned them back deep. We will never know how the game would have played out but they were 1 play away in the 4th from taking the lead then who knows. The point here is that it's not as bad as we think..the foundation is there. We just need a few more talented players which we are recruiting to get back to 10 wins and Acc title games. There is a fine line from 2 loses and 5 loses as we saw this season. Hey, we are still better the LOLUVA! Less loses and a bowl game. ESPN is nothing but a bunch of SEC whiners. It was great to see their golden team bammer go down hard last night and we can look forward to FSU destroying the other team of cheaters from the state of bammer. Did anyone notice how excited ESPN was during the Duke A/M game? They could hardly contain it when they came back against the Dukies..

Touchdown Tech - Bill Roth

The comments by May and Holtz were not incorrect .. just a little delayed. They talked about our great ST for years after we were losing more games by ST than we were winning. Wonder why they didn't say that last year when we were totally terrible?

By totally terrible do you mean the team or the special teams? Special teams has been lacking, but I think you may have a different meaning of terrible than most.

I'll let the other old Hokie answer for himself, but assuming he says "special teams," then I for one use "totally terrible" the same way he does. Because our 2012 special teams were totally terrible. This year it was A J Hughes, half a season of Cody Journell, and everyone else was totally terrible.