I was probably one of the last ones to believe that Fuente could build a great program here. But alas, I think the rest of us are convinced otherwise now. I am so sick of seeing us lose these kinds of games where we should have won by 15+. We come out so many games with SO LITTLE effort, energy, and will to win. That's a huge indictment on the coaching staff, if anything.
My question is, what now? Instead of just griping on a fan message board, why not get a group of us to contact the athletic department and demand some serious changes, starting at the top? Does anyone have some contact info or know who the best people are to contact for this?
I want to see this program succeed so badly and don't want to see the fanbase just keep screaming into a vacuum. Thanks to anyone who might be able to help with this.
Comments
#MakeTheMove
You can do a lot with a check book.
But, I truly believe the administration is chalking up this year to COVID, and giving Fuente another season.
I also believe the academic side of the school does not care for our athletic program as older administrations have in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sands doesn't attend every home football game.
We have been forced to build a lot with aging facilities, across all sports, so I don't see the administration giving the athletic department the money to make a change. It'll have to come from donors the way LSU took out Miles.
I'll be shocked if he gets another year.
Id be shocked if we could afford the buyout .
VT has assets. They can afford it if they want to. We'll see
If VT gets the 6M they got last year they only need to pay the remaining 4M over 5 years. That's if Fuente doesn't get a job as well.
Honestly, if we had that kind of money to waste I would have preferred it been used to set Fuente up to succeed versus now flushing it at an opportunity to get a new coach that still only gets 6-8 wins.
It's strange to me you think throwing money at Fuente would change anything. We just lost to Liberty and Wake?
I am talking about over the last five years. We aren't even comparable to our peers in recruiting staffs and assistants budgets. Be proactive with our extra coin instead of reactive. A buyout gains you nothing and we still don't have enough to hire a new staff the way it should be done.
Should have paid baylor to take his ass when you had the chance
Best case scenario for us is Fuente lowers his buyout because he wants out. In terms of his personal finances though, there is no reason for him not to continue coaching regardless of the outcome.
What now?
Arsenal fans...they're never happy. But in this case they're not wrong....problem is they have no idea who or what VT is
Shane. Beamer.
*Thumbs up*
He's going to a better opportunity within the next 12 months. He wants his own path, and that's not going to follow his father's foot steps
Yea we kinda fucked him and way too many people in the fan base are scared of Shane literally just because of connection to his dad, yet they thought hiring former tech players as first time coaches was a great idea
#HereShaneYouDrive
At least he has more emotional attachment to VT, if nothing else.
#ShaneTrain
#ShaneToLane
I don't think it's a fit for either party. There are rumors that he didn't get along particularly well with VA high school coaches while he was here. On the other side of it, he's seen big boy football, knows that VT isn't committed, and doesn't want to settle.
Well, we aren't exactly recruiting well in Virginia anyways so....
Q: Can you recruit the region at a moderate level by ACC standards?
A: I think so...
Welcome aboard
His recruiting speaks for itself. This list doesn't look like it's produced by a guy who doesn't get along with high school coaches.
You can sit here an insist that Tech isn't committed to playing "big boy football," but if you have seen the visceral reaction to Saturday among the fan base, you know this "lacks commitment" thing is bullshit. The fan base (read: donors) are ready to have a product to get behind (read: throw money at) , but what Fu is putting on the field week in and week out ain't it.
Michael Brewer played under the guy and said he was ready to take over a big time program during his AMA. 'This is Home' is still our thing, right? We're still concerned with engaging our football alumni, right? Why not go after him?
N.B.:
Shane has as many bowl wins as Fuente, while coaching VT: 1.
And The Hokies didn't need to roar all the way back from being blanked in the first half. We played tough, and we played physical in that Military Bowl.
And that team was visibly excited to go out and play for Shane that day. Legitimately fired up/run through a brick wall excited. I wouldn't hate seeing that on the sideline again.
Just ask Gunner Kiel
And yes, the players seemed to play hard for Beamer the Younger
*sigh* Good times
Short memories around here eh?
Nothing now. We bitch for the rest of the weekend and into next week until it's time for Miami. This posts do nothing. We already have vent thread.
Fu isn't going anywhere unless you have or can group together multiple millions of dollars and on top of that he's going to get a pass regardless bc of Covid.
Would Shane even consider coming back here after everything that's happened?
I'm not entirely sure if this is appropriate but here's a gofundme to raise the money to buyout Fuente
https://www.gofundme.com/f/buyout-fuente?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=...
Laughable, in that the goal is $100k and we will owe a $12.5 million buyout
It's 10 million. Should only need 10 million after December of this year
My solution? Go play War Thunder, blow up other people's pixel tanks, try to forget what I just watched. Choose to emotionally disconnect myself from VT football until next season just like I did long ago with the Washington Redsk.... Football Club. Hope for better days to come for the future of VT football and wonder when we will have a new head coach. Oh yeah, support Coach Young and try to enjoy some Hokie hoops.
Nothing screams building a program like a fan base having to "emotionally disconnect"
I mean if Godfrey at Banner Society is convinced that Fuente was truly on the hot seat with people who matter in Blacksburg (which he has said repeatedly this fall), I 100% believe it's possible a change occurs.
Godfrey said last week 'If VT loses this game and Fuente still has a job at the end of the season, then you know it's a money issue'
Spoiler alert...it's a money issue
Money issue can't be the reason we allow our cash cow to fall into ruin.
We have to make some tough choices, and it needs to start with cutting sports that we cannot bolster up financially while maintaining a competitive football program. And if that means gutting the non rev sports, then that's an unfortunate thing, but necessary. Chalk it up to COVID budget cuts and move on.
I don't necessarily disagree. As it is at the moment it's a money issue. I think we should go all in on football and basketball. Those are sports that generate revenue. We to fund the football program to the best of our ability to be as close to blue bloods as we can. If that means diverting funds from other sports I'm all for it.
As much as it sucks for the swimming team no one watches VT swimming. A swimmer going to another school to swim doesn't affect VT in the slightest. Kids going to other programs for football and basketball does.
Let me add a point that I haven't heard about before.
So let's say we remove revenue for, say, swimming, to invest in football and basketball.
If football and basketball start making more money, one day we can bring swimming back
Look around schools taking in a lot more money than Tech are cutting sports not adding them back.
*nods in Clemson*
100% it's like a furlough
So that's a vote to maintain our zero (team) national championships then?
Where does VT stand in terms of # of sports as an athletic department vs the rest of the ACC?
Men's sports - 11 of 13 (Duke, UNC, and UVA participate in more sports, and also Notre Dame this year because of football)
Women's sports - 11 of 14 (BC, Duke, Louisville, UNC, Notre Dame, and UVA participate in more sports)
(sauce: Wikipedia)
What's the point of being a fan of college sports if it's only going to be schools fielding teams in 2-4 sports. No thanks. The fact people are ok with cutting student athletes sports to bolster the ever increasing arms race that is football is sad.
I don't think that's the point. I think the point is that if we focus most of our energy on those few sports for a while then we can, like Clemson, begin to fund the other sports in really meaningful ways down the road. With our current direction, not only are we not going to grow as an Athletic Department, we are going to begin moving backwards and not have money to support those other programs anyway.
You have to ask yourself, 'why should a university (who's mission is supposedly to educate people) have an athletic department that requires a 8-9 figure revenue to run?' Is it for the athletes, or is it for the students and alumni?
The reality is that, at most schools, football and/or basketball shapes the university's culture and builds an environment that makes alumni want to return to campus, donate, and contribute to the local economy. Other sports don't do that.
Right now, zero sports at Tech are accomplishing that goal. And the only one that has a realistic shot of meeting that goal on a wide scale is crumbling before our eyes.
I'm not a college sports fan, I'm a college football, men's basketball, wrestling and maybe baseball if they aren't terrible fan
Its really not sad at all. The vast majority of VT fans became fans because of the football program or in recent years because of the basketball program. We cannot continue to complain about being mediocre in football if we are not willing to make cuts to other sports because clearly, people are not willing to pony up money to the Hokie Club right now, and i dont blame them. Cut the non-sense sports so we can be a respectable football program again. This trying to be a blue blood on a dollar store salary bs needs to stop.
One thing to keep in mind is that with Title IX Requirements you would have to cut a large number of Men's teams before you could entertain cutting any of the Women's sports. The number of athletic scholarships available has to be equal to the percentage breakdown of the school, which for Tech is I believe around 60-40 Female to Male. Between football and basketball you are looking at roughly 100 scholarships so you would have to maintain around 150 female scholarships. It doesnt have to be perfect but all schools must show they are attempting to meet the requirement.
Wow really? When I was a student the ratio was 60-40 men to women. That's a huge swing in just 10 years
Nope. Fall 2019 enrollment was 57-43.
yeah, this makes much more sense.
Sorry, must have flipped them in my head when I was looking at it, still, it would require us to keep 66 female scholarships.
I feel like I'm a pretty pragmatic fan but this is probably the last straw for me and that's disappointing
Same here. I don't have the free time to spend doing something I don't enjoy. I don't enjoy Hokie football anymore.
Add a third. I am over it. Now what do I do with my Fuente signed football?
Fan of your posts in general as they have good inside info...but.....THIS is the game that broke you????
Yeah, once you hit for the cycle and lose to ODU, Liberty, and UVA I'm pretty much reach my limit.
I'm looking forward to my birthday/Thanksgiving in a couple weeks😃
What are the odds we could swing Luke Fickell?
Not that we could afford this mess.
We're fooling ourselves of we think we have a chance with him
I Agree
Don't disagree...but where is his next job that's better than VT?
By all accounts Fickell loves Cincy (it's his hometown). He's not leaving for any job other than OSU or ND. Maybe Michigan, but I think he hates them too much from his time as a player to coach there.
Not a bad suggestion.
Drink another beer and be glad tomorrow is when real big boy football is played? All kidding aside you cant be to mad. We have a mediocre coach with meh recruiticorning so this is what Hokie football is now until the end of Babcock and his ridiculous extensions...
Big boy football? Yep....liverpool at man city is proper football.
Well, the rest of 2020 probably goes like this...
-Miami: we couldn't stop Malik Willis who has about 40% of the talent of D'Eriq King. Our only chance here is if Miami comes out and lays an egg.
-Pitt: pretty putrid on offense so far; this is a game we should win
-Clemson: hahahahahahaha -only really a question of how embarrassing this one is
-UVa: truly a toss-up; they are defensively pretty stout; if they stick with the Run on O, I don't know that our Charmin-grade Defense can stop consistently
So that leaves us at 5-5...in a year with Fuente's "Best" Recruiting Class leading the way. Its just not good enough; not at all.
Pitt and UVa are less talented, but we've seen twice this season that talent doesn't matter right now. I'd say 50% chance we go 0-4. 40% we go 1-3. 10% 2-2 or better.
Uva may be less talented, but they aren't soft. They will kick our ass because bronco can coach. He gets the most out of his talent.
Bingo. He has done more with less and Fuente has done less with more.
Not bad for a guy with only 27 ACC level players
The key is that he realized it and puts them in the best position to win.
Agree. His players play hard for him. Cannot say the same for our team and Fuente as demonstrated by today's game.
All I can say is that Hooker was all-in. Tre Turner was all-in.
Waller was all in on that last play.
Does it not concern you that of all the players who played you only named 2 who were all in?
I think the lack of energy on the sidelines is an issue. It's noticeable. I knew after the first touchdown liberty scored that we'd be lucky to win, in part, just by sensing the difference in sideline energy. Liberty was fired up and looked like they wanted to play. Our guys seemed half interested. And the rest is history. Not sure how to fix that tho
Being able to capture that visible energy in a normal year is elusive. I cant imagine how hard it is in empty stadiums. It isn't like players don't care but momentum is a real thing built off emotion. I don't know the solution.
That's a fair point about no fans. But the sideline energy issue is something that's cropped up every year since 2016
Agree. Talent differences don't seem to apply here. It all depends on how motivated this team is at kickoff. If we're motivated at all we can win most of the remaining games easily. If we sleepwalk through the opening series we'll get blown out.
Unpopular opinion, but it's not the coach's job to motivate players. If players can't get pumped up to play football, then why are we even giving them scholarship? Players gotta bring their own juice.
I agree, but I also think there is responsibility on the players and coaches. College players are young and I suspect can easily overlook a perceived lesser opponent. Coaches have a responsibility to get that crap mentality out of their heads. Take any Alabama season since Saban took over. They have had plenty of lesser conference and non conference opponents come through, and I can't recall a single instance where they ever flirted with a close game (caveat: I haven't looked back at the records, so I'm working off memory here).
Attitude reflects leadership. And you can also coach toughness, which doesnt apply to tech.
So are we HARD SMART TOUGH or SOFT DUMB WIMPY
we make SMART look HARD to achieve and TOUGH to fight against
Counterpoint -- the coaches are the ones that make the decision to offer a scholarship. Skill, athleticism, personality, drive, etc are all said to be factors and if guys are lacking the drive trait, then coaches who offered the scholarships need to be held accountable.
Tech, ranked sixth in returning production from 2019, is flirting with .500 (or worse) in Fuente's fifth year...a year we were all told to wait for as "the year", with no significant recruiting help in sight.
This is my take as well. His timeline has been discussed in years past with many wanting to fire him but the bulk of folks were focused on year five, which is reasonable in my opinion. The caveat will be covid but for me I don't really think he warrants another year - I just don't see a team that is prepared week in and out - that's largely on the coach - and he hasn't been able to harness enough talent to push us to the next level (10 wins). In fact, we've seen several bright prospects jump ship leaving us depleted with a future that in all likelihood will be worse than our current state. I don't know how the money plays out, and it will surely be a deciding factor in whether to retain him or not, but from a strictly results perspective it's time to move on.
Watching the Florida-Georgia game right now on CBS. They're talking about our game during the halftime show. My god, this is fucking embarrassing for us
Edit: The ESPN page on Facebook posted the end of the game. Fantastic, our name is getting stomped into the mud
Icing ourselves on the blocked kick is going to be a top ten blooper from this college football season.
Top ten??? Top 2 is more like it...just make it Top 1 to be safe. Embarrassing is too kind
It must be nice to be a Gator fan, right now.
The title of this thread is "what now".
Here in the northern neck, a "friend" says just pull out some weed and just sit back and relax. Sitting outside and watching 2 real teams play football. Gators and uga. Sure can cure what ails me, and that is watching vt play shitty football
I'm not sure. I've been numb to the mediocrity of the program for awhile...
I grew up in the heyday of this program, and grew to love my Hokies passionately. I've felt the sting of tough losses (Michigan Sugar Bowl) and elated to kick LOLUVA's ass for 15 straight years. I look back on the days when we were a hard nosed, tough football team fondly. We were the media's darling. We had a rowdy crowd that was fun to be a part of...
Enough of that, y'all already know all of it and it's pointless to dwell on the past. But that's where I am. I miss the old days. I've never donated to the Hokie Club, partially because up until now I wasn't financially stable enough to do so. I would be more than willing to pitch in money to see Fuente get fired, but unless there's a massive tideswell on a GoFundMe or something...It's probably not going to happen.
I'll still wear my Hokie gear with pride as I always do, because I bleed maroon and orange. But damn if this doesn't hurt...
I have to wonder if Whit may attempt to work with Fuente to renegotiate the buyout. You have to think Fuente feels miserable about this as well. What would the potential long-term ramifications to his coaching career be if he held VT hostage with the buyout and destroyed the program? He would likely never get another remotely decent coaching job again. I think at this point a negotiated mutual parting of ways is the best thing for both sides. Fuente may have to prove himself again as a coordinator or coach at a lower level program, but both sides need to move on.
As to where we go, there are a ton of opinions I'm sure. I personally wouldn't hate Shane Beamer being the next guy for a multitude of reasons, but some will likely be against that. Would Todd Grantham be a name to consider? From the area, VT alum, and could definitely come in and help rebuild this defense which has fallen off a cliff. Maybe T Gray also returns under him as DC, and we could also bring in Shane in an Assistant HC type role like he is at OU currently. I think we need people with some connection to the program and understanding of the culture of VT, the positives we have as a school and program, and the challenges that we face. We need to focus heavily on recruiting as well.
We really can't let this bad situation continue to play itself out. This loss and the state of the program could have ramifications on major funding and capital projects for years to come. Donations and fan interest will continue to plummet, and we cannot afford to let VT football fail. Whit needs to act quickly on this IMO. This is a bad situation all around.
All valid points.
First of all, while Fuente is not meeting expectations, he has not 'destroyed' the program. Secondly, and most importantly, you think way to highly of the individuals and instructions who hire coaches - Lane Kiffin, Hugh Freeze, Will Muschamp, Chad Morris, Rich Rod and many others have hurt programs far more than Fuente, and still gotten another job.
Yet. If we don't move away from him we will continue our descent on the gridiron and that will pull everything else down, including academics. Football is a cash cow and the smart universities are leveraging the hell out of it. VT is going backwards. Nothing changes and in 10 years student enrollment at VT will be trending down and every facet of the entire university system will struggle financially.
Plenty of top tier academic institutions don't have great football teams. I agree that Fuente has had time to prove himself at Tech and has failed. However, I don't agree that if we don't fire him immediately it spells the end of Virginia Tech as we know it. I feel like there's a lot of middle ground there to work with.
a lot of top tier academic institutions have history and huge endowments that VT just doesn't have. VT is currently relying on tuition to stay afloat and it's pretty critical that we keep enrollment up to keep the lights on. Many other institutions with huge endowments and academic prestige aren't relying on the same economic drivers as VT and, thus, are less reliant on having a cash cow in the form of a successful football program. But we have to be honest with ourselves. As much as we love VT and find great value in the education we have received there VT is not Yale or Harvard. We need football to be successful to keep everything else afloat. Especially now that tuition prices are driving folks away from higher ed. We don't have the endowments to keep things going that other institutions enjoy. We bet on our football program and it paid off big time in the late 90s and early 00s but our failures to invest in it adequately since then could end up hurting us in the long term on many levels. I don't want to sound like a chicken little screaming that the sky is falling. Ultimately, I agree that there is a lot of middle ground to work with. But you can't ignore the fact that the success of the football program is a huge piece of the economic engine that drives VT as a whole.
So that is not how VT acedemics are funded. https://roanoke.com/news/education/virginia-tech-projects-as-much-as-300.... The university doesn't fund football, and football does not fund the university directly, though indiriectly scholarships fund athletes tuition.
Football also attracts a lot of students. Like I said in an earlier comment, the VT football boom with Beamer/Vick didn't just correspond with a huge uptick in enrollment by coincidence. The success of the football program drove interest in the university as a whole. That's my point.
Amen to your point. After Tech didn't accept my youngest son, he went to GMU. His senior year lowly George Mason goes to the Final Four (still kind of a mind boggling achievement). Go to his graduation ceremony, the president of GMU says they have had a Nobel Prize winner and a long list of other achievements yada yada, never changed application numbers much. Went to Final Four, applications almost tripled. One of those statements that sticks with you forever.
and for an institution that relies fairly heavily on tuition (like VT) it's really important to keep the interest in the program up. Regardless of how anyone feels about it, people care about sports and sports elevate the profile of many universities, VT included. We're not blessed with the history, prestige, or endowments of the Yales and Harvards of the world. We need football for the entire university. Football dies, everything else will struggle.
Agreed. My daughter, in my profile pic, wants to attend a FBS school to be a dedicated football fan. She has great grades and is a four year athletic starter. UNC-CH admissions called her yesterday to see if she had any questions.
Rich Rod definitely hurt Michigan, but he was out of coaching entirely for several years before getting the AZ job. And even though it's a P5 school, that was a massive step down from Michigan. Basically everyone you listed also have one thing going for them - they recruit well. Even if the fail at a school and get fired, they can recruit and will get another shot. Fuente can't afford to stay at Tech forever and fail. If you're not known as a recruiter and the coaching is suspect as well, it may take a while to recover from the perception.
Also if after today you don't think the program is well on it's way to bottoming out, I don't know what to say.
I think our program is on the way to being a perpetual 8 win program. When I read 'Destroy' I think of what Charlie Weis did to Kansas, or what Chad Morris did to Arkansas. I don't think Fuente is that inept.
EDIT: an 8 win program would go 8-5 in a regular year. That's ~.610 winning percentage. That puts us at 6-7 wins in this COVID-adjusted season. That means we get 2-3 additional wins this season.
Where are we getting three more wins this season?
We are going to be lucky to win 6 this season. And this is with the talent of the 17-19 classes. What happens when the bottom of the ACC 20 and 21 classes are the core of the roster in a few years?
What did Weis do to destroy Kansas that Turner Gill didn't do before him or David Beaty didn't do after him?
Read up on his roster mismanagement. He relied too much on JUCOs, and it got to the point where he was so far behind on scholarships, Kansas couldn't fill out their roster.
Hmm. I was just going by records, not the inside stuff.
Thanks for the tip, and have a leg.
OK...I live in Tucson....we are the laughingstock of this town right now. No sugar coating it, only Hokies know who our coach is, this town thinks we are a joke...and i can't really provide a counterpoint. This is a terrible loss....the optics are awful. If people on a basketball town think we are a joke, what does that say? Nothing good...perception is typically reality. I've got UCLA fans laughing at us right now. Ugh.....
Bingo. I had Radford alums making fun of VT this weekend
This sounds familiar....where have I heard this before?
JUCO's were entering/leaving Kansas at such a fast rate, that Kansas was still giving out the maximum 25 scholarships/year, but still couldn't fill a roster with 85 scholarships. VT's reliance on Transfers is no where near that threshold.
I think we are close to "The Tipping Point" (to borrow from Malcom Gladwell) with the program. Things aren't at rock bottom. Fuente is a good dude and a quality representative of Virginia Tech. I think he's a good coach (maybe not good at running a program). I like those things about him.
However we are in a tailspin and I'm afraid folks don't recognize it. Fuente has lost to every FBS program in the Commonwealth (not named JMU. Thank God we don't play them). His teams are wildly inconsistent. He has trouble competing in the Coastal (and with Liberty and Wake... Sheesh), and we have two recruiting cycles that are abysmal.
If things continue to decline into mediocrity, or even UVA level suckage, funds will dry up very quickly and the program will be hurt for decades.
Incredible that people are finally seeing it after several years of us saying it. People shit on DC so much for being negative, but fuck he's right. Now the narrative has changed to "yea he's not the right guy but we can't afford to buy him out". People, please listen this time, that is a small small price to pay to dump this staff before they continue to damage our brand, but at this point it may be too late
What makes you think he isn't already holding the program hostage? Nobody would batted an eye if Whit pulled the trigger after the Duke debacle last year. So I have to wonder why. Was it the size of the buyout? Maybe. Was it Whit wanting one more year of evidence? Maybe. Was it no suitable replacement that could elevate the way we thought Fuente would be able to? Maybe. All of the above? Probably.
Drink. Heavily.
The time is now. Problems like this don't get better or cheaper with time. Cut the chord, and hire a low budget, value replacement. We are close to rock bottom, and have more than enough evidence to know that the CJF program trajectory will not change to an upward course.
As bad as this is, we are not at rock bottom. Relatively speaking we are no worse than Beamers latter years, and we are far from going 0-fer in conference.
I'll come back to check on this comment after we lose to UVA for a second straight year...
This was a point in time post. Either way it needs to be revisited at the end of the season.
I think a big reason for all the angst is that many fans feel that we are rapidly headed for, even if we haven't yet reached, rock bottom. We want to avoid that. It shouldn't take hitting rock-bottom to decide we need to hire someone else. If we're trending down for 4 years (which we are) then I think it's reasonable to move on. I know there are arguments about firing too quickly and that might have been the case after the disaster that was 2018. But now, two years later when things aren't improving, I think it's absolutely reasonable to conclude that Fuente is not doing what he was brought here to do. Firing him now and trying to find someone else is not a knee-jerk reaction at this stage (two years ago, maybe). It's a prudent move to cut our losses and try to turn the ship around before it's too late. Rock bottom is too late.
When I say rock bottom, I mean rock bottom by VT standards. There will always be many worse off programs in the country. The tail end of the Beamer era is not what we should aspire to or settle for. Most everyone knew the program was in steady decline at that time, and we were fortunate to have a classy and graceful exit for CFB. After much patience, and although my intent had been to wait until the end of this season to make judgement.it is now clear to me that VT's future is not with CJF, Our recruiting record is not acceptable, with all due respect for the great kids in our program. We play an anemic schedule, in the very weak ACC Coastal, and we are not a strong or consistent contender for the Coastal Championship. We have just gotten whipped by Wake and LIBERTY. That is LIBERTY. OMG. If not now, at the end of this season it is time to make a bold move with a vision for a better future.
I've been working out in the yard since the game ended. Have they named the interim coach yet?
Justin Hamilton /s
Who do we think would actually be the interim HC if it were to happen? I don't think we have an associate HC since Bud left. I would guess Claeys or Lechtenberg? Tapp could even be a long shot just to try to rally the troops to beat UVA.
Claeys the obvious choice
Agreed, Claeys would be the choice
If he's gonna lose terrible games like this can he at least open up access to the program?
*bong rip*
What if...now just hear me out and like...think about it...what if we just said fuck it and hire one of the old as dirt coaches from like the AAF or XFL like Spurrier or something. Maybe they'll do it cheap because they still like coaching and it'll buy us some time for 3 to 4 years or so? Like Norm Chow? Oh man, chow. I'm so hungry right now.
Might want to take another hit.
This program needs far more work than someone like that is willing to do. They take XFL/AAF gigs because their name can sell tickets and all the administrative work is done for them, they just have to coach.
**bong rip
Now, hear me out, Steve Sarkisian
There's rumors he's in line now for when Saban steps down. Also not sure if he can recruit.
He's going to command a substantial financial commitment. Hard to see it happen at Tech. It's an interesting name though.
I'm on board. Any change is good change at this point. Not much downside risk now.
Unfortunately Briles is still such a toxic name and would be a horrible fit. Scheme and recruiting wise my optimal team would be for him to take over and bring Odom in as DC.
What if we take a shot on Tony Elliott assuming we could lure him from Clemson. Double his salary and we still come out ahead
From what I understand the buyout only drops $2.5mil each year right? I know it's arbitrary but if you take one look at the current trajectory of the program and the last two recruiting classes Fuente has put together I find it hard to believe that we don't stand to lose more than that $2.5mil a year just in lost prestige and value of the program.
If we're struggling to beat Liberty and stay .500 now with "an experienced team of all Fuente's guys" just picture this team in two years with a SIGNIFICANTLY worse talent pool than the current one. And make no mistake it will be SIGNIFICANTLY worse. We will be the laughing stock of the ACC and nobody will have any interest in investing their money in VT football.
I'm not saying it's easy to come up with that money for the buyout but the writing has been on the wall for two years now that there were extremely dark days ahead if this current crop of Fuente players and coaches couldn't put together a legitimately good season by now and they haven't. That was kind of the deal with 2018, it was excusable as long as it was a growing pain on the way to real improvement and we're sitting here 2 years later in the exact same spot except now there are significantly worse recruits coming in to top it all off. Absolutely nothing good is going to come from allowing it to continue.
As I've said I my first official game was Akron 1991..and for the record...growing up in Southwest Virginia I only applied to only one school(looking back risky and or dumb decision)...and that was Virginia Tech. If I didn't get in then NRCC here I come. Not gonna lie the football program reeled me in (03 grad) and some of my best memories were watching tech games with my dad and finally saving enough money mowing lawns to buy us tickets for the Thursday night opening game on espn in 1995(1991 game was with a church group)....and even though we lost to Boston college by 6 I was hooked for life. I still am and that won't change. However even in a loss that night there was grit, hard tackling, and just raw emotion from 2 and 3 star guys and frankly many walk ons that were playing for something more (eventually a sugar bowl win) and we are missing that outside of a few guys now. I'm not sure when it happened or why but that persona is gone. Hooker has it, Hoffman and some of the line have it....hollifield has the passion...but overall something is missing from those days...the "we may lose but you're gonna feel it tomorrow" mentality is gone. I've never seen this kind of tackling, missed assignments, and overall mental lapses since I have been watching and attending Virginia tech football games for almost 30 years. My son is almost old enough and I'll be taking him and my daughter to games soon. I just hope we get back to the girl that we took to the dance...fuente says "hard smart tough" and that isn't what I'm seeing...whose fault?? Boosters, coaches, players?...i Can't put a finger on it but this is "sometimes hard, sometimes smart, and not often tough"....that's my 2 cents...and never call a timeout when someone is attempting a 59 yard field goal unless you are playing in Denver...love the key play and god bless
Leaving this here...
This is an example where having no coach would have been cheaper, as well as would have resulted in a positive outcome.
We're dropped even deeper than your typical prevent defense. Our coaches clearly expect a Hail Mary to the endzone. Short and to the sideline is not part of this defensive call.
That's the point. How could they not understand that short pass to the sideline was an option?! As soon as I saw this formation I knew we were screwed.
That's why I was cheering SO LOUD when they decided to kick a field goal... the first time... there was time left to do so many other things against this D... It was akin to a team deciding to punt on 4th down and inches on your struggling D and you call a TO and they come back with their offense on the field.
The most concerning thing (among a ton of problems) is simply the fact that this Staff has a general lack of Gameplanning ability and Strategic awareness.
If you look at yesterday's game it was obvious that Liberty had a concrete, rational gameplan. Run the ball, establish a short passing game, and control the clock on offense. Even after watching them do this for 3Q, in the 4th our DB were still giving 7-10 yd cushions in our Charmin Zone scheme. From a standpoint of stopping the Run, I simply don't think we have the personnel to do it, but you have to at least try to take away something from them. Its Liberty for godsakes!!!
Offensively, we decided (based on what I don't know) that running a double-reverse on our first possession was our best chance of success. When the gadget misdirection junk didn't work, we resorted to the HH battering ram strategy. Then, before Half, we started a short passing attack that was successful and then never really consistently came back to it. I would describe our general Offensive strategy as "darts at a wall," without any apparent attempt to find, identify, or attack the potential weaknesses of the opposing D. Its literally a question in my mind whether our coaches do any focused game prep during the week.
Then the End of Game sequence pretty much speaks for itself. Total lack of awareness and Football sense.
So when the arguments over whether its the D or the O that is the problem start, the truth is that it is both because on neither side of the ball do we have any focused or logical strategy...it's a massive coaching failure in my opinion and it starts at the top.
Completely agree with your assessment. On defense, go back to the basics, and learn how to tackle. Who gives a shit if your scheme is correct when you play grab ass with the ball carrier. It is just fundamentals and a lack of toughness that makes me sick. On offense, you better figure out something different than using hooker as a battering ram. He wont last with his build. We need to find another guy between the tackles if Herbert is injured. It isn't blackshear, he is a perimeter player. Give holstin the ball, or find someone to pound the interior, or we will lose our main weapon on offense.
And not everyone going to make the tackle to the whistle. I have seen so many times where a defensive player doesn't run to the ball or help out on a tackle because he assumes the other guys already engaged have it taken care of. And then they don't complete the tackle. Very little toughness and fire on the defensive side.
Step one: get everybody to step away from the crazy pills. There have been some very knee-jerk statements made in the last 24 hours. For those that can't stomach to watch, don't watch. Nothing happens before the end of the season unless you think you have a legitimate interim candidate on staff.
If we had a coach on staff with prior head coach experience at the P5 level, would that count?
I should have clarified that I would not do it unless that interim coach is seriously considered as likely to win the full time job. I don't think that person exists.
Fair, good clarification
Agree. End of the season is ok. But this chapter needs to end. Don't let judgment be clouded by any future wins against the mediocre Coastal Division rivals the fall. We can't beat LIBERTY.
Agreed, no reason to not wait until the end of the season. However, if Tech isn't actively trying to renegotiate the buyout and part on mutual terms, they better be finding a for cause reason for termination or else be prepared to pony up. The facilities upgrades and fundraising push are completely wasted right now if there is no confidence in the direction of the program. As I said last night, this is just a problem we can't afford to let fester on for a few more years. We are only digging the hole deeper and making the inevitable rebuild longer and more costly down the road. Fu's contract is a sunk cost at this point. We need to move on sooner rather than later.
Yes coming in and telling people they are being unreasonable in a reaction thread to losing to Liberty...
Read the room, dude
Dude maybe you were confused which one of the bitching threads you were in. This is the What Now thread and my recommendation is to not do something emotionally driven in the heat of the moment. I know you wouldn't understand since you are one of the most emotional posters in the site.
I don't think we are at heat of the moment. We have a pretty long track record under CJF upon which to base a desire for change. A great deal of patience has run out for me. LIBERTY kicking our butts is just the tipping point, not heat of the moment..
What are the advantages of firing Fuente today. What are the disadvantages? Like it or not we are between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
There's no need to do anything, today. Whit just needs to formulate the plan and commitment to move on from CJF by the end of the season. A change announced after the season is fine, but it needs to happen.
We lost to both Liberty and ODU in a 3-year span. That's not to mention any other losses in that span, just the ones to local schools we schedule to be our cupcakes. Nothing emotional about thinking that is a colossal failure and damage to our brand. This is not a one-time, knee-jerk reaction to a bad loss.
I am not defending anybody. I am saying we do not need to become the midseason coach firing school. It doesn't provide a benefit.
I'm as homer as they come with my O&M glasses tattooed on my face. I'm born into Hokie family, raised Hokie, graduated for VT and live local with family that is faculty at VT. I attended games growing up where entrance was $5 and you could sit anywhere on those cold concrete bleachers in either the east or west stands. And I'm 100% convinced Whit has to do something now. The cost of waiting a year or two is too great for VT. Perception is paramount. The Titanic is sinking and Witt needs to decide if he's part of getting the lifeboats loaded to save the program or part of the band going down with the ship. Witt needs to get out In front of this to control perception. Fire somebody, anyone. VT will lose so much more than the cost of a buy out. And not just VT athletics. It's the VT brand, it's the local and regional economy, and indirectly it will affect VT academia. Fire Fu and have one of the coaches be interim for the remainder of year. At least you are doing something to control the perception of the donors and fanbase. Coach Fu I believe is a great guy and I sincerely think he does his best. But football is so important to this university's brand and the ship is already sinking.
Rarely do I comment on this site, although I read it weekly, whether it's to revel in FAM over a win or to see how HN is responding to our loss. Nonetheless, I bleed internally each week I watch us play. If not at Lane ( pre COVID) or in what family and friends have come to call The Hokie Room. Yes, the entire 3rd floor of our home that several years ago I transformed into a shrine to the Hokies. Not to be boastful, but it is a beautiful sight, filled with years of collecting merchandise and memorabilia, some that were limited edition or one of a kind. It's my happy place. But with each declining year and inexcusable losses I'm stuck. I couldn't turn my back on my team if I wanted to, but I feel all these years of building my shrine have been a waste. The 2000's are a time long since gone by. I told a fellow Hokie this week there was a time I was more confident in our team scoring on defense than when the offense was on the field. Now .....remember bleeding internally???? Recruiting continues to decline under Coach F and I just don't see any reason for hope. I understand all the nuances of finances and who's available next so I ave no reason not to think we're on our way to another Syracuse who finds our will to play hard once a year when we face Miami. If anyone out there in HN has words of comfort and a good reason not to completely dismantle my Hokie room, I'm all ears.
It dawned on me this morning that arguably our best defensive game this year was called by a 1st year position coach from jmu...
I stated earlier something needs to be done now because perception is paramount to fanbase and donors. I just read this article about what to do (and not do) and it makes too much sense to me. I said fire Fu now, but maybe this is a much more leveled approach when it comes to actionable items and changing the current perception.
https://dullesdistrict.com/index.php/for-virginia-tech-it-may-be-a-case-of-kill-or-be-killed
This is fantastic! I think it warrants its own thread.
We donate... last night was the last straw for me. I'm still skeptical of how Whit will handle this but at least now I can say I did some small part in trying to make it better.
THANK YOU.
Money doesn't solve everything but it is such a big part of all of this. Time for a lot of us to donate. Thank you.
I agree in the macro sense. But when we hear things like the big donors and admin are supportive of Fuente and have bigger things to worry about than the success of our football program, why throw more money into a roaring dumpster fire? At this point there's just a complete lack of faith that anyone involved with VT Athletics has any motivation to improve things. Hell, we donate more and they would probably give him another extension.
I broke it down to myself in pretty simple terms
(Action) me not giving (resulted in) downward trajectory
(Action) giving (resulted in) TBD
Yeah, I definitely understand that argument. By that logic though, the athletic department could interpret a lack of giving as a growing apathy towards the program.
To me, giving says, "We want VT football to be successful so much that we are giving our hard-earned dollars to it. Be better."
Thank you for donating!!!
Donations don't have shit to do with coming out flat and losing to teams we should beat by 3 scores.
Donations didn't muff a punt. Donations didn't call a QB draw on 3rd and 6. Donations didn't elect to kick a 50 yard FG when we have have to keep the ball because our D sucks.
Donations don't have shit to do with a head coach burning in state bridges which tanks recruiting.
They dont. But donations help pay for buyouts to fix the coaching responsible, and/or hire the replacement to fix the all things you mentioned.
I do not see us getting rid of him mid season. If he pulls off a Miami, Pitt, UVa win to close out the season, he'll definitely be back next year (honestly I think if he beats just Pitt and UVa then he'll be back).
If we have the money to buy him out...do we also have the money to go after someone good or are we just going to get another unproven commodity? We're dangerously close to being like a Tennessee which has just been a revolving door of mediocrity or less since they got rid of Fulmer.
Im guessing first time head coach elevated from assistant is the way we go. If we do go that route, I hope we get someone with VT ties that would re-engage former players that seem to be dying to get the program back to where it was. I would love Torrian coming back but I know thats far fetched.
I came here to say, do whatever it takes to not become Nebraska. Demote Justin Hamilton to DBs coach and let the DB coach be DC, he was great against NC State.
Honestly I am leaning towards the idea we should wait till 2021 to make a change. Waiting a year gets the buyout down $5 million and gives him a year with almost all starters returning and an actual offseason to circle the wagons and try to save the job. Expectation should be making the switch unless we win an ACC title, with money being the primary motivator to give him another year
Here's the problem with that..
1. We have zero shot of an ACC title next year unless Clemson folds their FB program. Even then, I don't like our chances.
2. The difference between firing him after this year and after next year is 2.5 million. I agree that we shouldn't fire him midseason, not because it's not deserved, but there's no reason to expend 2.5mil to fire him a month early. If he's still around, revenue's going to continue to be a major problem next year, as fans are just not excited to watch this product. One of the things we have to consider, is the people here on this message board are the hardcore fans. We're the ones who still care, there's a whole host of casual fans who are already hopped off this ship. And truthfully, the Casual fan is where the program goes from breaking even to making money. The economic situation suggests to me, that we stand to lose much more than 2.5 million by keeping a lame-duck coach around one more year.
3. How do you recruit to a program, when everyone knows that the coach is going to be fired at the end of thr year? What kind of recruits are seriously going to consider coming to VT knowing that Fuente is pretty much a goner? The staff is already struggling to recruit without that extra burden.
Good point about casual fans.
Here is where I am. I dont think Fuente is as bad of a coach as the pitchforks are telling us. If we were still pulling in talent, I would definitely say ride out the contract. But since we haven't been lighting up the recruiting trail, and definitely won't be now that public opinion has now definitively labeled this staff as lame duck status, we have to cut ties. The question is where is the balancing point economically.
Aside from that, the next coach is going to have a rough go at getting talent back on the field as well. It will take a great hire and a lot of luck to get us back where we want to be.
I think we need to make a change, but I also think that change is likely going to result in similar performances. I think we have about a 10% chance of hiring a guy who can propel us back to 10-win seasons. 30% chance we hire someone who fails harder than Fuente. 60% chance it is basically the same. I don't think the institutional, regional and relational structure at VT will lend itself to sustained FB success without wholesale change from the BoV/President/Academic side, which is unlikely to happen.
Basically, I think VT has already peaked and is permanently headed into FB mediocrity. However, I am really excited about the basketball team, and I honestly think that they are the most likely team on campus to provide a realistic chance at a meaningful national title. So, going forward, I think a lot more of my VT fan energy will be directed at the basketball team.
To compound the issue of the casual fans walking away is that by the time we can go back to games, the entire fanbase has been literally forced to realize there are other things that can be done during weekends in the fall, at a much cheaper budget. It's very easy to continue buying tickets when that's what you've always done, but you're going to have a one or two year gap for essentially the entire fanbase since they last went to a game, and getting them to buy back in will be a very very tough sell if the team is still playing like this. We were struggling to sell out the stadium before the pandemic happened, too.
It's honestly most teams that are struggling. I was reading articles 2 years ago about SEC teams struggling to engage fans for crappy home games.
The money bubble will burst sooner than later, I think.
What Now?
Simply get rid of our current coach, "Who Freezes."
#MakeTheMove