I feel like there should be a thread for 100% civil and facts based analysis of where we are and what happened today. Respectful agreement/disagreement and evidence to back up all claims is what I want to go for in this thread.
First off peace out Fuente, you took us to an ACC title and that was cool, but now you won't and it isn't. Second, I hate midseason firings and it's a great way to turn the next coaching search into a dumpster fire. I say let Fu coach the season out then fire him with anything short of winning out (including Clemson and an ACC title). Fire him and go for Luke Fickell, Matt Campbell or a higher profile name. (Keep in mind, fucking up this hire could send this program into a downward spiral, and give us many worse losses than today. It is very important not to screw this up.)
Last point. I watched about 75% of today's game and every time I had it on the offense looked great and the defense was a freakin sieve (bailed out by two lucky turnovers). Justin Hamilton has taken last year's productive unit with 9 returning starters and turned it into one of the worst in the ACC. This loss is almost entirely on him. That last series was inexcusable. Sure you can say he's young and made a mistake, but that's what Fuente signed up for in year 5. He was the cheap hire and if you buy cheaper low quality parts, you can't be surprised when your engine fails. It's hard to see us at anything worse than 6-1 if we hired Odom instead (7-0 would be possible imo) and we'd be out a hell of a lot less money than buying out Fuente at the end of the year.
Anyway that's what I have to say, what does everyone else think?
Comments
#MakeTheMove
I have a hard time making any macro decisions regarding Jham considering all of this season's variables. However, I do absolutely blame the defense for the current state of Hokie Football. I guess what confuses me the most is why a foster disciple couldn't transition more softly from old to new defensive schemes.
He had 7 or so guys back most of the season and 9 back this week. We have depth with experienced players everywhere but a couple secondary positions. You would expect at least to sustain the same level of production
I seem to be in the minority thinking that the defense was putrid as well last year. The only difference is now JHam is running the D, and he is obviously a step down from Foster.
You nailed this. I disliked the Hamilton hire from the get-go, and this is why. You take a once in a decade offensive attack, return the large majority of your defensive starters, and then put a bunch of square pegs in round holes to the detriment of the entire team. Why wouldn't you run a more Bud-like attack and play to their strengths in the interest of elevating the program? It's not like you're recruiting a bunch of top 300 talent that is suddenly coming in to fit your new scheme. Why not go for the soft reboot?
The defense is a glaring, consistent issue, no disagreement. Today all three phases of the game had issues. A muffed punt inside the 10 should never have happened, and major inconsistency on offense on both the play calling and execution are at fault as well. This was a team loss.
Its not just 'a muffed punt'. It was the 4th muffed punt that I can remember this season. Is there nobody better that the Hokies can put back to return punts?!? Between the muffed punts and the kicks going overhead, our PR game is awful.
You think Fuente didn't reach out to Odom?
Maybe between calls trying to bail to Baylor
Yep, in hindsight, maybe a bad call for the Head Coach to replace a hall of fame DC with an intern while he was actively job searching elsewhere.
I don't buy much the "Bud is going to help him, Clemson wants this guy bad" smoke that was blown up our asses to justify hiring a guy at 600K to run the show when the entirety of his 10 months in FBS (at that time) was spent coaching here. Never mind that his position regressed significantly. If he keeps this up, we'll probably just make J-Ham the new head coach.
Do you think he offered him the job?
Sure sounds like from connected people that we couldn't pay Odom 🤷♂️ JUGS definitely made it sound that way at least
Well if we couldn't afford him how are we gonna buy out Fu?
we need to change how we value the football program and allocate resources. We could have afforded Odom. Universities have enough assets to figure out how to pay one guy. Decisions were made and now we're paying for it. IF VT was serious about investing in their football program they could do it. It's clear that leadership isn't that interested in keeping that cash cow happy. The milk is going to dry up and then we'll be in for some hard times ahead. I am sure that VT, as an institution, could find a way to come up with the money required to fire Fuente and hire someone else. If they really wanted to invest in the program. But people in charge don't see the value in that so I don't expect it to happen. Buckle up and get ready for at least another 3 years of Fuente making excuses and fielding wildly inconsistent teams that look fantastic half the time and awfully outmatched the other half of the time
We just took Bud off the payroll. Bullshit we didn't have the money
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/reply/20315/996754
https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2019/december/2/december-dc-replaceme...
just relaying what someone with established connections mentioned. Seems Odom was all but done until a program with more money came and offered more money that we (ostensibly) couldnt (or wouldnt) match. Bud off the payroll or no.
Rumors are that Odom and Ashe were both offered. Ashe turned us down for a more high profile job, and Odom had agreed to come here, but then Arkansas offered him about twice what we are paying JHam.
Facts:
Justin Fuente's Hokies have now lost to every other FBS team in the Commonwealth of Virginia in the last three years.
ODU (2018)
Virginia (2019)
Liberty (2020)
From some dude on Twitter.
Now that we have that taken care of so we get to move on to the FCS opponents?
Depending on your timeline, we checked one of them off a decade ago, and others back in the 70s and 80s.
Reminds me when I buy crap off Amazon instead of going to the store and it turns out it had 1000 fake 5 star reviews from China
Facts:
Virginia Tech is 1-5 against theri last 6 ranked opponents.
Facts:
Virginia Tech is 17-18 against FBS teams since November 2017.
OOF.
Facts:
Last years recruiting class was #76
this year's recruiting class is #41
Just listing some objective things that point to the state of the program.
Unfortunately I think we are learning that recruiting rankings don't matter as much when the coaching staff isn't able to find a way to turn that talent into consistent on-the-field production.
One reasonable thing no one has mentioned is an empty Lane Stadium. It's hard to imagine Liberty playing quite as well with 100 decibels in their ear on every 3rd down. A lot of the emotion and energy the VT kids seem to be lacking would pick up with a little Enter Sandman and a home crowd.
If you have to rely on homefield advantage to beat G5 teams that were FCS five years ago, that is a huge problem in and of itself.
Edit; G5
Football is a tough sport. Take any advantage you can get. Who cares what you rely on for wins if you're winning?
He wasn't saying it is a bad thing we rely on a rabid Lane stadium to win games...he was saying it is bad if that is the only advantage we rely on to win games.
Eh, it didn't hamper Rhode Island that much last season from almost pulling the upset.
Or Furman
i thought people had been saying we play better away from home and enter sandman gets our players too hyped and thats why we cant win at home
I'm going to quote myself from another thread because it's the question I have most about JHam. I don't have facts here, just questions, so sorry Rayo because this is in the forefront of my mind:
I want informed opinions about this question.
Aside from the schematic issues you reference, I do think J'Ham needs a minute before we come to hard conclusions about his tenure.
He wasn't given the gift of Spring and Fall practice with which to implement his scheme and coach his players.
He was given a defense that has next to zero talent.
I saw his players over and over again, during today's game, in position to make plays and they simply didn't make those plays (this does not take into account the epic blunders in the secondary).
Hard disagree here. Razor thin at some position groups, but there are legitimately all-conference-level talents at each level of the defense.
This is a good discussion. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Especially with the "all-conference-level talent at EACH LEVEL of defense."
DL: Not sure there's a single All-ACC player there with the exception of a growing Barno.
LB: ??
Secondary:??
Seriously. I think there are some potentially good contributors, but where are the All-ACC players on this unit?
Hewitt Tisdale Connor Deablo and Waller are all solid players for any Tech defense
on a solid Tech defense, maybe. But an All-ACC defense? Different story.
Reed, Ashby, Waller. Ashby made the all-conference team so out at least SOME respek on his name
I can agree with this. I just think that those players were thriving under a very nuanced system.
No way Ashby plays on Sunday. He's a great tackler but is limited in covering the field.
Reed? C'mon. He's not going to make any all-ACC teams. You want all-ACC comparisions, Carlos Basham >> Reed.
I like Waller but he's played in 2 games.
This defense is thin on talent.
Ashby made the all acc team last year and now suddenly he doesn't count because he's not an NFL prospect? Waller got "honorary mention" last year and multiple CBs ahead of him aren't around this year and he doesn't count because he played in two games? I'm talking about talented enough to make one of the three all-conference teams. We have players at each level of the defense who are, yes. Thin on talent isn't the same as "zero talent"
The talent still isn't there for Jham. Waller has been hurt and Ashby/Dax both look to be stuck in mud whether it is a result of conditioning, Covid recovery, or just scheme change. Point is, regardless what they could have been, they have not been talented for Jham.
How do you explain playing prevent defense when Liberty just need 10 more yards to make a realistic FG? That pissed me off more than the timeout gaff by Fuente. That's on Hamilton.
Additionally, how can you explain how the best defensive performances this year were called by someone not named Justin Hamilton?
I think I've read that Hamilton is trying to transition to more of a zone system than Foster's man-to-man. This would explain the soft coverage and could also explain the complete lack of awareness that the DBU has been playing with. It looks like they're just losing track of their assignments and not handing them off properly which is how the receivers are getting massive separation.
Ugh. This is a hard no from me. We develop the best cornerbacks in the country because we leave our cornerbacks on islands and expect them to shut. receivers. down. This is part of why our defense is awesome and we shouldn't change it
It's what made our corners great and also got us brutalized at times. I'll never forget Sammy Watkins making us look silly for that reason. The zone scheme is designed to keep things in front and bait QB's into mistakes with disguised coverages. I had little to no expectation of our secondary picking up on that in year 1
I've heard from different people in different places that Fuente wanted a more experienced (and more expensive) coordinator and Whit Babcock either didn't have the money or flat out said we aren't paying for a million+ dollar coordinator. Probably because he saw some really sweet lacrosse sticks he'd rather have, or something. The guy needs to go work at Villanova or Gonzaga where there is no football to fuck up.
If/when the athletic director waved the white flag on football Fuente needed to be out the door right then and there but he came back and it's going to ruin his career.
So I don't blame Hamilton. First off, he's one of ours and these other clowns are not. I think it might be fair to ask if he was promoted too high, too soon. I don't want to see his career suffer because of this mess. I hope he gets back on track and has a stellar career.
That's my reasoned analysis.
I'm sorry our AD also focus on the other sports that are imo better programs than the football team now
I am very sorry he is doing that because it's going to drag the entire department down.
Ask yourself what happens when people in NOVA and 757 stop driving 8 hours roundtrip to watch football because the program is roadkill on the side of I-81. Football and the fan interest and money it brings in cannot be replaced at Virginia Tech. Not even by men's basketball. I will go to my grave believing that.
You know the other programs are a lot closer to winning a national championship than this football program right? Especially Softball and wrestling if they are cut im never cheering for tech in any sport again
if the football program continues on this decline those other sports will follow suit. Then we won't have any team championships in any sport. Or any hope of getting one.
You know who pays for the softball, wrestling and other teams???
The football team. Those sports don't bring in money. Football does. No one cares about a national championship In wresting or softball or any other sport save many baseball (and obviously basketball). I would love for those sports to get a national championship but I'm not watching and only cheer after the fact as are 90% of the people who don't know someone on the team if it's even televised.
Well I'm sorry for those 90% people who thinks football is the only sport worth a hell when the football team is the worst program in the University. Also I can tell you who won the national championship in wrestling softball baseball etc. No one did because of shitty ass covid cancelled all the post season tournaments
you're missing the point. It doesn't matter who cares or doesn't care about what sports. Football is called a revenue sport because it generates revenue. Those other sports are called non-revenue sports because they don't generate revenue. Every sport costs money but only football and basketball earn enough money to cover all the expenses. VT is not a basketball school by any stretch of the imagination. We rely very heavily on football to support the entire athletic department. If football continues this downward spiral into mediocrity there won't be any other sports to watch. I don't give a flying F*** that VTs tennis team is better than the Football team right now. If the football program isn't adequately supported and fails to bring in the necessary revenues to support the tennis team, then there will be no tennis team. If you want there to be a tennis team in 10 years then we need to invest heavily in our football program now to ensure that the athletic department can keep nets up on the tennis courts in the future. If that means cutting the tennis team for 5 years, so be it. We can keep the tennis team now and not have tennis, or soccer, or lacrosse, or softball, or field hockey, or quidditch in 10-15 years because the football program isn't bringing in enough money to keep those other sports in business. Or we can cut some of them now, invest in football and make sure to secure the financial future of the whole athletic program and bring those sports back as we can and we'll have tennis, and soccer etc. in 10-15 years and for several years thereafter.
I got ya now
This. Not saying ignore the football program, but this athletic department (or just me personally) needs a national championship. As we are reminded time and time again, we have no national team championships.
Does anyone care about a national championship in a non-revenue sport??? Who won the lacrosse championship last year?
Who won the track and field championship last year?
Who won the swimming championship last year??
Who cares?!?! If it's not football, basketball or baseball no one cares. And baseball is a distant third place.
Duplicate
I agree with this, but what will happen when the biggest revenue generating sport dries up, how will those smaller programs that don't generate money survive. It's a symbiotic relationship...focus on what puts money into the school and the athletic department can build out from there. You can't win championships without money.
I don't want any sports cut at all. I want football positioned for maximum success so the fanbase throws money at the athletic department in return. That's how those sports get better and better.
nobody wants to cut any sports but sometimes one must make sacrifices to advance. Tough decisions must be made. You can't have your cake and eat it too, as they say. We have gone too far down this road with Fuente. It was acutely evident in 2018 that he was not the right coach for VT. That much is clear now. We've reached a point where, unfortunately, we may have to make uncomfortable sacrifices in the short term to ensure overall survival in the long term. I don't want to cut other sports but I think we will have to in order to pour necessary resources into the only program that will help keep the entire department afloat. If we decide to keep all those sports and continue struggling to find the necessary funds for football we will keep trending in the wrong direction and then none of our sports will be any good. In the short term, great, we keep all our sports. But in the long term, it's essentially a death sentence for many sports. You have to pay coaches. You need money to do that. Football brings in the kind of money that will let you pay other coaches....if your football is successful. If it's not, then those other sports go bye-bye anyway. So cut them now and hope you hire a guy who revitalizes the football program and elevates it to a point where the revenues justify bringing those sports back in the future. Or don't and run the risk of losing all those sports later down the road anyway. Tough decision. But I know where I would make my investment, if I were Whit.
Doesn't the ACC require certain sports to be a member? I thought I read it somewhere. No matter, I just hope we find a fix for football program!!!
Yeah, but who cares about those sports? Really. Who cares? You know how UVA fans always talked about their Natties in those sports? No one cared about them then and no one cares about them now. That's just the reality of college sports.
Only way that changes is if all programs across the country are allotted the same amount of spending power towards their sports teams but that will never happen.
And you will be the only one who cares
OPs post want really reasoned. Still angry from the loss. Should've tried this post midweek instead.
The defense only looked good I. 2019 because 2018 was atrocious. The last few years under Bud the defense was horrible and no where near our standard. To put all the blame on JHam in his first year is ridiculous.
It seems to be the bigger issue pointed out above, Fu wanted a more experienced DC and Whot said no, he had to do what he could.
There was obvious chatter around Odom. So we know it was at least in the discussion. Whit turned it down so we had to go with a backup plan. Bud vouched for JHam so Fu went there. What do you want him to do??
While there is still no excuse losing to Liberty we have to actually understand the facts.
Here's a fact, Fuente isn't going anywhere. He's here for at least 3 more years IMO. 2021 season at the very minimum.
It's not "all the blame" for the season it's the blame for losing this game. He lost the final series and his unit was the one getting it's ass beat up and down the field the entire game. We lost this game because of the defense, and were lucky they didn't score 49 on us.
Seriously.
Fuente bet on Bud because HE HAD TO. JHam inherited a problem. It's going to take a while to clean it up.
And we're basically having a melt down because we called a time out before a 60 yard field goal. I don't agree with that call, but in the big picture it doesn't mean all that much.
This was always going to be a rebuild. It was never going to be a fast one. And we need to stop getting a big head about where we've been, and start focusing on the fact that this is, and always was, a massive rebuild.
We can get back there, but fans need to get a grip on reality. We're not firing a coach at a cost of $10 million during the Year of the COVID.
Yes, our pride is hurt. And it does sting. But we're not going to be doing financially stupid things. We have a decent coaching staff. Our recruiting needs to improve. Whit and Fuente need to figure this out.
That's not why we're having a melt down...the fact that it even comes down to a FG vs Liberty says more than that timeout does. The fact that the only thing the offense can do vs Liberty is a QB veer/power/draw says more than one timeout. The fact that we've now lost to UVA, ODU, and Liberty in 3 years.
Maybe this is a big rebuild but we haven't taken a single step forward with Fu at the helm for 5 years.
I get the reasons for the meltdown. I'm trying to recover from my own. I'm sure Fuente is, too.
But I disagree with some of your assumptions. Our offense is absolutely better now than when Fuente took over. Our defense is absolutely worse. Some of these upstart teams, ODU and Liberty, are better than we're giving them credit for. We need to take them seriously.
The reaction on this site is because we lost that game, and any of several plays might have changed that, including the one that was reversed on that timeout call.
A couple of factors also need to be considered.
We muffed a punt on the 5...
The ref's blew dead a clear scope and score. There was ZERO doubt that the ball was out before he was down. In today's technology of reviews, they should have absolutely let the play continue and then reviewed.
We missed a field goal.
Any one of those are different and the blocked kick doesn't even factor in.
I'll restate the fact that it's Liberty. All 4 of those happen and we should still win by 2 scores and only one of those things are something out of our control.
Them being Liberty doesn't mean we can give them points and still expect to win.
Yes it most certainly does. That is exactly what a point spread is. We should have been able to give them 16 points and won.
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you, because we did and we lost.
Gambling spreads are like stock market valuations. It's a perception of reality, not reality itself.
What are you saying? I am saying that we should have been able to handily beat a G5 roster regardless of the mistakes listed above.
I seem to remember that we offered Malik Willis.
Whit is literally in the position to think rationally for us. He gives 100% of his bandwidth to the future of VT athletics. Thankful that I'm not in that position because I know I would not be acting based on the most educated opinion. Fuente could be a bad hire. Or he could be gaining valuable experience that will pay off in the long run (hopefully with/for us in that case). Idk.
All I know is that my Hokies are still my boys til I die. We could have a student coaching the team and be vying for the Lysol Toilet Bowl, yet I'd still be jumping and jingling my keys and screaming my head off on third down. Because that's my job and that's all I can do. Whit will do what's in the best interest of the program, because that's his job.
The Lysol Toilet Bowl would be a cool bowl to have that no one would want to go to.
Maybe they should sponsor a bowl for the two worst teams in the county. It can't be worse than the UCLA VT bowl or the VT Rutgers bowl we played in.
EDIT UCLA Illinois. Worst football Ive ever seen, worse than the Russel Athletic
Hear for this thread/topic. Some thoughts:
There are two complicating factors here:
I don't know what the move here is. Do you really fire a coach right after a bunch of kids sign their LOI?
I would push back on the JHam comments too. First of all, I think the defensive was very intelligently put together. On paper, it addresses every weakness: Don't put linemen in the NFL - hired an NFL line coach and an NFL line player. Out of touch with recruits? Hire younger guys who are former players and know the state well. Have inexperience on the staff? Hire a super experienced DC/HC to be on staff.
Secondly, scheme changes take time. It takes time to retrain existing players, and it takes time to get the right players in. COVID really hurt us here. Given COVID, I thought a Top 40 defense (per SP+) would be 'acceptable,' and a top 25 defense would be a huge success. So far this season, we've bounced around the top 30-40. Well be interesting to see what the numbers look like this week.
Third, at the end of the day, you have to recruit. That's my biggest concern with this staff. And that lies with Fuente. I think most of the coaches on this staff are good at developing players and in game coaching (except today... barf). Can't recruit bottom third of the ACC talent and expect to make ACC Championship Games.
Complicating factors don't matter.
Getting a head coach that isn't trash for the next five years matters.
I'd settle for "get a head coach that wants to be here" and "get a head coach who hasn't had an SI article written about how players quit on him".
I'm completely fine with waiting until the season is over before moving on. That allows for 100% of our focus being on finding a new coach. It probably gives us a better chance of winning some games to end the year.
There's always an excuse to do something you don't want to do. This was the argument when Fuente had Dominique Davis and other Texas kids in the fold- "Fuente can't be fired, we'd lose the precious Texas pipeline". Well, the #TXtoVT pipeline is gone, recruiting is meh, and none of the kids in the class as presently constituted are sufficient human shields to protect Fuente. Will we hear about a Papua New Guinea to VT pipeline we have to preserve?
Push the button after 12/16. If recruits want to bail, release them. Use the portal to fill the holes.
I'm not ready to roast Hamilton. Not enough data. We knew that our defense was going to be bad this year. We expected that. We knew that we would need our offense to score 40+ points each week to give us a chance. Does our defense suck? Absolutely. But that was expected. Our offense has been under construction for 5 years now and it looks almost completely hapless when one or both of the only two solid players (Hooker/Herbert) can't play or don't play well. This offense was underwhelming today.
This is revisionist history. Go back to pre-season threads and you will see people were much more hopeful about the defense than you are letting on.
Maybe some people. Go back and find my posts tho. I, and several other folks, have been saying since January that our defense was likely going to take big steps back this season
Like you, I knew the d would be crap this year. I thought they were crap last year too.
Don't be distracted by JHam and the defense. Our problem is broader and more systemic than that. Our problem is in year 5 now. Focus at the top.
All you need to know is that we let Liberty score because we knew we could not stop them and wanted the ball in the hands of the offense. We then still scored too quickly. I don't directly blame Jham either, but we most definitely have a defense problem.
nobody is saying we don't have a defense problem. We all know our defense is terrible and needs a lot of work. We also know that this is year 1 of a completely new D staff and they've had extreme extenuating circumstances to battle along with everything else. The defense is awful and we recognize that. But, for me, they kind of get a bit of a pass. The offense, however, is still maddeningly inconsistent and unreliable. We look great against some teams and then teams that have pretty mediocre defenses that we should shred manage to limit our offense pretty effectively. Play calling is sometimes nonsensical and some of the coaching decisions (time management, personnel usage, overall strategy decisions) are complete head-scratchers. There are real issues beyond just the defense. And people are mostly upset that in year 5 of a guy who was touted as an offensive savant our offense can't manage to score more than 4 TDs against a clearly inferior team. At home.
You keep coming at me with the thought that the offense is to blame for not being able to prop up the horrendous defense. Keep in mind, the offense needs to score 40 and also do it in a way that protects a defense that just allowed a 9 minute scoring drive and is dragging ass. The offense is clearly worlds better than we are accustomed to and they are doing it somewhat with a hand tied behind their back. And Saturday the offense was down the lead rusher and lead receiver. Whatever, if I am going to look for any improvement on this team, it needs to come from the side of the ball with the most room for improvement.
I'm not saying blame the offense. I'm saying blame the coaches. They're not doing their jobs. That's the point. You keep wanting to drag the defense and you seem adamant that the offense is blameless. The real issue is clearly with the coaches. We knew defense was going to be crap this year so why bother blaming the defense anyway? We need our offense to be consistently reliable and it isn't. That is on the coaches. Hooker had to put the offense on his back and he almost single-handedly won that game for us. Almost. But he had his knees cut out from under him by complete bone-head coaching. You want to blame the defense. I want to blame the coaches. I'm using the coaches' perceived strength of offensive prowess (and it's lack of consistency) as an example why the coaches are not doing their jobs.
It's hard to win games when we're giving away points all over the place.
Muffed punt = "the horror".
The defense did it's job most of the game. Unfortunately, it's the complete lapses on defense that define it. We can't afford to give away points, and we do it every game, and have to make up for it with heroics.
I was disappointed that we lost to UNC. It was frustrating because we started off slow and if we hadn't spotted them 21 points in the first quarter maybe we would have had a real shot at winning. But UNC has a lot of talent and is a good team. The loss, as disappointing as it was, was understandable. The coaches got out-coached and made some questionable decisions but they lost a hard fought game to a good team with a lot of talent.
Losing to Liberty is something else entirely. I don't necessarily blame our coaches for being outcoahed by Hugh Freeze who, regardless of what you think of his character or conduct, is a pretty damn good football coach. But I do blame the coaches for not having our team well prepared for a team that objectively is not as talented as our team. I do blame our coaches for, once again, making several questionable coaching decisions throughout the game. I do blame our coaches for failing to put our players in the best positions to win. When Herbert went out the game-plan essentially became "hammer it with Hooker and hope for the best" which is a lazy, uninspiring, and clearly not effective enough. Despite Hooker really putting the team on his back and carrying the entire offense we still lost. That's not a recipe for success. That's not a sign of development. That's not the kind of coaching that will get this team to where reasonable fans expect it to be. Competing for ACC titles. That's the type of coaching that will turn us into the type of football program we've been laughing at for the last 20 years. We're quickly becoming UVa. It's concerning.
I'll wait for French's analysis of the game, but I think our offense needs a running game. With Herbert, I think we win that game 10 out of 10 times. Without him, and with a handful of defensive lapses, it's a lot closer game than I'm comfortable with.
i can not emphasize this enough... our program should not be reliant on the presence of one grad transfer to beat Liberty. not now, not ever.
there are 121 players on the hokiesports roster. that's like 78,650 total muscles. one of them should not be the difference between winning and losing against liberty. not now, not ever.
this 1000%
I understand that sentiment.
I just think there's an arrogance there that we need to get over. And until we get over it, we're destined to lose these games.
We need to take our opponents seriously. We can't give them points.
"an arrogance there that we need to get over"
who needs to get over it? the fans? the team? the coaching staff?
the fact that our program is in a state where the attitude doesn't match the on-field product when it comes to playing a game against liberty should tell you all you need to know about the difference between where our program should be and where our program is
Maybe all of them.
The fact is that we were playing an undefeated team on Saturday, and on Monday, they're still undefeated.
So if you're not taking them seriously, even now, it's a sort of arrogance.
There aren't any teams in Virginia who we shouldn't be taking seriously.
As coaches, as fans, and as players.
it's "arrogant" on my part to expect a VT football program that doesn't lose to Liberty? what a load of nonsense
The load of nonsense is that Liberty can't field a decent team.
They have.
We should have been able to beat them, but they do have a decent team this year. And the problem is that we self-destructed on some key big plays and by muffing that punt (in other words, gifting them points).
FIFY. I don't care how "good" liberty is. VT should be better regardless of Herbert's hamstring or a muffed punt. The fact that we're not is telling
I disagree with you.
I think we have a decent team. But we've definitely got some things to shore up, particularly on defense.
We need to figure out how not to muff punts.
"decent team" in year five is not where we should be
that's the point
The big elephant in the room, though, is that this coaching staff can't manufacture a good running game without a Herbert type of back. With him we're great. Without him we're pedestrian. That says a lot about both Herbert and the coaches.
Herbert - it says that he's a phenomenal, once-in-a-decade type of running back who can make big things happen even when things break down
Coaches - it says that they need to rely very heavily on a once-in-a-decade type of running back to have any sort of success running the ball. That is absolutely not a formula for sustained success. These coaches are being bailed out by Herbert in much the same way Stinespring was bailed out by Tyrod. Our offense in 2010 was, statistically, really good. But nobody would blame Stinespring of being an offensive guru by any stretch of the imagination. Our offense was really good because Tyrod was a phenomenal once-in-a-decade talent at QB. These coaches have not proven that they can build a competent offensive attack around the types of players they are actively recruiting. They have proven that they can take a really really really good player and give him opportunities to make great things happen. But anyone can do that. Stinespring did that.
Herbert is an excellent running back, but he needs to not be a once-in-a-decade player for VT.
We have some good talent on offense, but with our current defense we need it to be firing on all cylinders, all the time.
Our running game is improving, but we need talented players to execute it. Right now we need Hooker and Herbert.
Those are the facts.
Yeah that's why everyone wants Fuente gone. He's not recruiting the talent you suggest we need
I would like for us to not be Nebraska. I would hate to be at a point where our desire for titles constantly leads us to changing coaches every 3-4 years.
I believe we are in the Callahan years. So a Pelini would be next, right? Pelini won 9 games every year, but was pushed out of Lincoln for being an asshole. And having no offense to complement an NFL defense.
Getting a future lifer who will win 10+ games a season? You just don't project that. Meaning, I don't know if the replacement is currently out there, at the price we can afford.
The coaches are not good at developing players. Our best player is a grad transfer from Kansas.
Our coaches are only good at making excuses and losing games they should win.
Fuente should resign on Monday.
Counterpoint: Our best player was, by all accounts (even French's analysis) not terribly well utilized or developed at Kansas. If KH21 goes to the NFL next year, he has Fuente&Co to thank for that.
Has there been an injury update for him? I hope he is ok.
There are 12,500,000 reasons that Fuente isn't going to resign anytime soon.
Is that seriously what the buyout still is? I thought it dropped to 10 mil after last season and dropped to 8 or so after this year.
The buyout dropped to $12,500,000 on December 16, 2019.
The buyout will drop to $10,000,000 on December 16, 2020.
Considering that our final regular-season game is December 12, and conference championship games are happening on December 18-19, a December 16 firing should place us right in the thick of the coaching carousel, and if Whit is smart he'll already have a verbal agreement on a contract in place before the firing.
I'm going to blow a gasket if Fuente is fired and Cornelson replaces him, you know, because our offense has improved so dramatically in the last 5 years
Or is our best player the former 2* OL that some project as a first round pick or the 3* (i think) who is projected as first CB selected? Or lightly recruited Tenuta.
I think he is decent to good at evaluation/development. Game day....not so much
He thought Malik Willis wasn't good enough to be a QB.
Or thought he would be an nfl db.
This thread went downhill fast. What happened to the reasoned discussion