"Like the demeanor," Waller said. "We not playing. We serious. We ain't out there just to be out there. Everybody going to play their role and do their part and be full speed. We not just doing it to clock in. He really trying to put us on work and make the change."
Fuente now getting involved in scout team in practice this week - seems like the guys are more fired up, hopefully they can retain some focus after losing an "exhibition game" *ducks*
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That's all talk until its proven on the field on Saturdays. Been getting this same lip service for a couple of years now.
Logged in on not-my-normal device just so I could +1 this.
I'm sorry we shouldn't have needed Liberty to get fired up. Anyone with eyes could see the defense was struggling.
Didn't you know Virginia Tech always needs one f*ckup game per season to "get fired up"?
North CarolinaWake ForestLiberty
And we still have to play a bad UVA team. On a positive note, we'll be good and fired up for the 2021 Spring Game.
So key to beating clemson is we just have to lose to Pitt? Ah shit
Ah shit, Pitt.
Just doesn't have the same ring to it, unfortunately.
Although I wouldn't count UNC as a total screwup since they're actually sort of good, it is sad that yes we've had two of them through half of the season
From JMU to the Orange Bowl. That was a much better team though.
Gosh what a classic Virginia Tech season.
1) Lose an explicable game to a far inferior opponent.
2) Use loss as motivation to win out and win the conference
3) Get blown out in a bowl game by a good but not great team
Right now, I'd take that.
Right now (and for more seasons now than I'd care to admit), I'd take bowl eligibility.
CJF wants to keep that "after a loss" win% up. Great job on locking in after all of your losses, coach. What about the rest of the season?
The turkey bacon must of came back for liberty week.
I can only imagine how bad BB can make our own defense look in practice. Especially with CJF hyping him up and calling plays.
We hear this at least one a year every year after a big loss. We also hear it in the off-season. "We are serious this time - things are different!" I appreciate the thoughts but until proven otherwise on the field, things are not different.
the obvious takeaway being that previously they were out there just to be out there and weren't serious and were just there to clock in?
We Talkin Bout Practice GIF
I gave up trying to find an embed link that would work
via GIPHY
Thank you, trying to work this on mobile was going poorly
All-time fave rant interview. Better than Herm, Mora and Singletary. AI is from my hometown so I may be biased...a little.... lol
Sounds like someone lit a fire under Fuente's arse for him this week-was he ever involved with the scout team before?
I'm guessing the wife!
I...don't know how to interpret this
It's too late to close the door, the horse is already out of the barn. In other words, "too little, too late,"
right, I see it now. Thanks!
I prefer to see it as there's a pasture out there, and he's putting that horse out in it. He being Whit. The horse being Mr. MakeUsALaughingStock.
He;s taking the horse out of the barn. Get some laps on the treadmill. Be ready to run all over Miami.
Maybe they took it personally that they were the joke of college football last weekend...
is this supposed to make me feel better? Because, it doesn't.
Why is this the first time Fuente is involved? Why is it so much more intense now that he is? Why were the players not taking this seriously before? What is scout team work usually like? Is that really the issue? Shouldn't we be focusing on tackling and other fundamentals?
I have so many questions and this tiny little glimpse into practice doesn't answer any of them. We're in year 5 for crying out loud. WTF is going on?
Yeah, Feel like this article has been written the previous 5 years....
https://richmond.com/sports/college/with-virginia-techs-defense-struggli...
sounds like there has been a lot of players being lackadaisical...
Sounds like it's too complicated
Is the material too complicated or the teaching that's the problem? From my understanding, the Saban/Smart defenses are complex and require a great understanding of coverage concepts and how to adjust for different route structures. Doesn't seem too complicated for their players.
Also the time in the system. The entire spring was lost and fall camp was all messed up. I hate excuses, but implementing a different system during a pandemic was never going to go smoothly. Sadly it is too early to make a call on JHam IMO. However, I don't think that excuses the apparent lack of effort on the field, and that does come back to him.
Was just about to say, time in the system is the big part here. If EVERYONE is learning it at the same time instead of the younger guys learning from the coach and the older guys, it's gonna be a struggle. It is what it is.
Man this deserves a thread of its own
Playing the LB's 5 yards off the LOS every play is a bold strategy cotton. Let's see if it works out long term. Thats the biggest difference thus far. JHAM calls a ton of the same (soft) coverages on blitz downs that Bud did, and the middle is way too open for QB runs still. But Bud used to play his middle backers right up on the LOS. We don't do that now. For whatever reason.
Kind of sounds like the defensive version of the Lefty offensive approach.
Ehhh... Same sentiment after a terribly disappointing loss. Just a different season.
precisely. We've all seen this film before. And if things don't change, we'll be seeing this film again next year, probably around the end of September
2021
Sept. 25 University of Richmond Blacksburg, Va.
Timeline checks out.
All lip service unless we finish the season with wins over everybody but Clemson and we're actually competitive with Clemson. I do think that CJF is dealing with something unique to this generation of players though.
I remember having this manager at my first job that I thought was the biggest asshole. I remember when I started at another company and I realized how much he better he made me at my job. One of those tough love type things. No way in hell he'd get away with acting like that today. Heck, I'm so scared of shit going sideways when I say something that I re-read emails a million times before I send them. I bet CJF is probably having to deal with something similar.
I think that's why this kind of stuff (publicly embarassing loss) is necessary to turn things around though. CJF probably cant be ultra demanding the way old school coaches are without having a kid transfer or turn a lockerroom into a crap mine. however, nothing makes you want to get your shit together like a publicly embarassing performance that you cant pin on someone else. CJF is gonna have to figure that ish out though, either by finding and recruiting more Hoffmanns or changing his coaching style.
I was encouraged by what Diablo said about backing CJF and I personally think no way CJF gets let go after this season because of COVID circumstances and unless some rich person personally pays for his buyout (not gonna happen) so hopefully we do see some sort of recovery going forward.
I agree in that I don't believe Fuente will be fired after this season. I'd love for VT to move on because I don't think Fuente has demonstrated the ability to get VT back to competing for ACC Titles but I'm just some schmuck behind a keyboard so my opinion doesn't count.
That said, I think all the chatter about his buyout is being overblown a bit. Of course VT doesn't want to have to pay a guy after firing him and $10mm seems like a lot of money to us small folk but in the grand scheme of things it's not actually that big of a hit for the institution. If VT was really serious about supporting one of their most important revenue generators (I don't know that they are) they would be able to find the money necessary to do so. VT is quite capable of making investments. I just don't think the leadership recognizes all of the impacts a successful (or not successful) football program has (or would have) on the institution at large.
I'd like to move on, I just dont think its feasible.
I also think we can technically afford 10m, its just a matter of do we want to use that 10m when we could spend it on something else (like more support staff). I don't think it would be a waste but I do think that it's not easy finding a great coach. If you look at a bunch of other coaches that we thought were going to be great, a lot of them havent panned out.
I think you give CJF one more year, see how it goes and if he disappoints again, then spend the money to bring in somebody else.
Isn't every other coach also dealing with "something unique to this generation"? How is that any excuse? How come we're the only ones losing to Liberty?
Well, to be fair, Liberty is undefeated and ranked. So far, everyone is losing to Liberty.
Half of the Big 12 lost to Sun Belt teams.
Yeah definitely. I also dont think every coach has a style that's reliant on being that kind of way either. Saban does and you know that when you talk to Alabama recruits. It's all business and meritocracy there. If you dont cut it you get cut. Can do that when kids are begging to go to your school or if your coach is Saban. Can't get away with that when you are CJF but I think that's the kind of coach CJF wants to be.
I'm also under no illusion that every other team that should be good is still doing good. For example, PSU is 0-3 now.
I dont think people would be all good with CJF if he was 0-3 right now and coming off a loss to a god awful UMD team. People on here would be losing their minds why CJF cant coach a bunch of 4 stars.
I hate that I'm typing this cuz I'm not a huge CJF fan but I think we need to be realistic with what we thought wer were going to get this year after COVID hit. Our defense is in year 1 of a new system with no spring, no summer, no Farley, no Hunter. Did anybody honestly think this defense was going to be anything more than a wet paper towel this year? And while we're still on it, outside of WF, the offense has been pretty great this year. If the defense could get 1 more stop a game, we'd have 1 loss and everybody would be begging Whit to give CJF an extension.
I know ppl are angry right now, but as someone who's not so emotionally invested in the team (after realizing i emotionally, mentally, and physically needed to not be), I don't think the mishaps are unexcusable, for lack of better word. All games save Wake we've been awesome on offense, and for the most part, shit on D. With a new system and no practice time in the spring and summer, we are where we are.
Recruiting is a different beast all together, and it's not clear if we got a different coach, given our handicap in budget and appeal, if we'd do a lot better. Fuente isn't a rah rah guy anyways, and many ppl might feel he needs to be in order to succeed in recruiting, but my 2 cents is that even if Fuente was Dabo-like in that regard, he wouldn't have done too much better on the road. There's just too much parity in football these days for those not named Bama, LSU, Clemson, and OSU.
We're gonna suck for this year and maybe next, but Fuente has shown he can develop talent. Farley, Darrisaw, Tenuta, and others all seem like bonified 1st or 2nd round draft picks, and that counts for something. Our D will catch-up after a few years in the system, but the kids are trying and its hard to transition from one system to another (as indicated by the dollar menu quip by J ham)
tl'dr; We are right where I expected us to be. If we keep the ship steady, we'll be where we need to be in a few years if we call don't call for the guillotine and end-up like Tennessee for another decade.
*puts on helmet and honkers down in the bunker before the barrage of downvotes reign down*
I admire your optimism. I think you're undervaluing recruiting. It's unfortunate that the defense is in year 1 when our offense is in year 5. Perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to keep Bud Foster when Fuente was brought in. Maybe things wouldn't be so bad if Fuente was building the entire team instead of just half of it from day one. I think if we keep Fuente the best case scenario is that we enter a cycle where the defense becomes a big focus moving forward and the offense is neglected as a result. So in 5 years our defense will be fantastic but the offense will stink. Then in 10 years it will be the reverse again.
But to my second point, I really think you're undervaluing recruiting. Fuente has not impressed on the recruiting trail and we're starting to see the results. Liberty, a team which shouldn't be as talented as VT, just out-talented us in all three phases of the game. Our players, with few exceptions, are small, weak, slow, and horrendously inconsistent. The way we have recruited, I just don't see how that will change in the next 5 years unless we make drastic changes to the coaching staff.
We are rapidly becoming the 3rd of 4th best team in the state. That is a far cry from where we reasonably expect to be as a program.
Yes we should've done this. Ripped off the entire band-aid instead of just half of it.
I don't think this will happen, but it's just anyone's guess at this point. With T&T and J Ham it remains to be seen if the D can be better in the future. The data sample is too small to make any general conclusions with recruiting, though I agree it doesn't look good for this year (but most coaches will tell you one has to start sowing a relationship for a few years before you can reap the benefits).
Maybe, but that's just perspective and opinion of each person who posts. Without the budget (and thereby infrastructure and investment) into FB, we're not going to be at the Clemson level where we can grab anyone we want. We are now a "developer" school where we will change our culture by developing players into stars and winning / getting them drafted early. When we can successfully start doing that, then we can hopefully start then slow march into getting revenue and becoming a high-budget/ high-revenue school.
Neither defense out-talented anyone
I can't give you that
in the last 3 years we've lost to 3 of the other teams in the state. Sure it's a bit hyperbolic to say but it's also not completely out of the realm of possibility - which is insane, considering that just 5 years ago we dominated this state.
1. We lost to Liberty. They are also dealing with Covid and they recruit in the 130's.
2. This was supposed to be "the" year for Fuente. Yes Covid, yes every team is dealing with Covid. This was not a rebuilding year - that was last year
3. Money is not why kids that have VT in their top 2 or 3 choose penn state or Clemson. If money was such an issue we wouldn't get that far in the first place. We can't close on players. We can't close on top va players. That's not lack of money. That's selling your program and the future. Fuente can't do that.
4. This is year 5 and we are making excuses for liberty kicking our ass. That's all you need to know about the job Fuente has done here.
This is the most important point to me. If this game had happened 2 or 3 years ago (and it basically did - ODU) I would be (and was) pumping the breaks on Fire Fuente rhetoric because he's supposed to be (re)building something. But now, in year 5, this loss is inexcusable. This team has developed a clear pattern of losing these types of games. We can't keep kicking the can down the road forever. Fuente had 5 years to prove that he could make VT an ACC contender. He has failed to do that.
1. If you read my post you'll see I never used Covid as an excuse, so not sure where you got that from
2. This was never supposed to be "the year" for Fuente at all. Offensively sure, but defensively shifting to a new scheme and losing your top Corner to the draft last minute? Def not idea. No one said this was "the year" at all except perhaps yourself
3. Why kids choose a school is a mix of complex issues, but at the root of it, money is a huge factor to how successful statistically a program can be. You think Dabo if he never went to Clemson could've sold Tulane to 4/5 star recruits? I highly doubt it. But you're fooling yourself if you think Money doesn't significantly increase your chance of not only winning on the field and recruiting, and then you're being delusional.
4. It's year 5 and year 1 of the second rebuilding job Fuente has had to do from scratch. That's all you need to know about the shit-show that Fuente has inherited.
You are kidding right? Fuente inherited nfl draft picks and his best team yet. If he is doing a second rebuild it's because he can't get fucking players in here. Should Beamer have left him 9th graders in the pipeline? Come on.
I've already made my point. You can disagree if you want, but I'm tired of getting in the mud with you.
Wait a second, year 1 of the second rebuilding job...? I ... what?
when denial got you making shi* up to make you feel better about a shi**y situation you don't want to believe is real
It actually makes perfect sense if you try to not be emotional about it for a second and not-combative.
I am neither of those things and it is still a doozy.
you're misconstruing my "combative" disagreement with you as being an emotional reaction. This team has been bad long enough for my emotions to check out. I'm looking at this objectively.
Objectively, Fuente has improved the offense at the expense of the defense. Even if Foster was still here implementing his niche system our defense would still be bad. Right now the scheme isn't the issue. We just don't have horses. We neglected recruiting on the defensive side of the ball in order to land 1000 WRs for the offense. (Most of whom, by the way, are no longer around)
Fuente can not possibly be dense enough to be blind to the fact that Foster was going to step away at some point. Although it was made pretty clear from the start that Fuente would be responsible for pairing a good offense with Bud's historically stellar defense it was his responsibility as a head coach to make sure the entire team (offense, defense, special teams) is getting the necessary attention. Even if you're right and Fuente is in his "second rebuild" it's really an indictment on him for failing with the "first rebuild". He shouldn't have to rebuild twice. In your scenario Fuente made a gross miscalculation by neglecting the defense. That should be grounds for dismissal on it's own. So I just don't see how your argument favors keeping Fuente around.
This is where we are: VT is recruiting at or near the bottom of the ACC on a yearly basis. The offense has improved slowly over the last 3.5 years but still isn't good enough to compensate for a terrible defense. If you're going to go all in on the offense it better damn well cover up the deficiencies on defense. Ours just isn't that good. Better, yes, but not good enough to justify the neglect of the defense. The defense has fallen into complete ruin and requires an immense amount of work, which, undoubtedly will require the offense to take some hits.
I really liked the Fuente hire at the time. And even after the disasters that were 2017 and 2018 I thought it was important to give him more time to put together a team of his own. But here we are in 2020 getting outclassed by a G5 team which is practically brand new to the FBS...at home. Our players looked lost, uninterested, and unfit to be playing on the same field as....Liberty. If we were in year 2 or 3 and the recruiting was much better I wouldn't be so concerned. But we're not. This is year 5. This is Fuente's team. I don't care that the defense is brand new. He had 4 years to recruit talented defensive players and he didn't. He's not recruiting well enough to compete in the ACC now and I don't see how anyone could possibly expect that to change.
I've made this argument before, but it's hard to recruit great players when your D coordinators contract hasn't been extended. Insiders have verified this was a good tactic employed by PSU and others. You pare that with the lack of investments Tech previously didn't commit to recruiting and I'd say that paints a fairly good picture as to why we've been flailing on recruiting. And again, there's too much parity these days in recruiting if you aren't a blue blood.
In any case, that's your opinion re first re-build fail, but I think it's incorrect. This isn't NCAA football where you can just plug in a system and players will execute it properly the first time, and you can instantly get all the highly-rated recruits regardless of the status of the coaches and investments of the school. There's no way he could've gotten players the last 4 years that would fit BOTH the niche scheme of Foster / Wiles and the more Pro scheme of J ham / T&T - there wouldn't have been enough scholarships for that.
Leg to offset the dv. You clearly hold a different opinion than some but not sure which CG you violated here. . .
Thanks yo.
I think I understand where you're coming from and where your head is at on this. I understand the logic to it but I'm having a really hard time ignoring the recruiting piece of it. I get that it could be hard to recruit defensive players in the climate we were in with Bud's contract ending and all. But outside of the OL our recruiting on offense hasn't really been that exciting either. We had to get our stud RB out of the Portal, for instance. And WR recruiting hasn't really born fruit on the field. Hooker is a heck of a competitor and this offense is at it's best when he's in the game but he's not going to beat many teams with his arm. Wake dared him to and he came up short. Really short. He was fantastic against Louisville (10/10) but Herbert was, IMO a big reason for that success. If our running game is shut down (or Herbert is out) I don't trust Hooker to throw the ball 20-30 times and win the game through the air.
If Fuente is a good enough recruiter to get the talent necessary to compete in the ACC I would think that we would have gotten that talent on offense, even if it was too hard to recruit players to the defense with Foster having one foot out the door. To me, the recruiting on offense hasn't been good enough to convince me that now that this team is all his and there's no question about the defensive coaches' contracts things will suddenly turn around.
The third year 1 of the rebuilding job is really going to be a pain
The D is changing from a niche scheme that was very specific to Foster and Wiles to something more akin to (presumably) an NFL defense. When your previous primary scheme was to have undersized DTs with wiggle no longer works in your current situation, as well all your player personnel don't exactly match what you're doing, then it's a rebuild. And unfortunately, we haven't been recruiting to this new scheme at all prior to J ham taking over.
So yes, this is a rebuild job for the defense just as much as his first rebuild when he got here was to get an offense with a pulse. As I mentioned, the O (save for the WF goose-egg) is rolling while the D is struggling mightily. It will take a few years for the D to catch-up to the O.
Ah gotcha, I'm sure they're loading up on DTs this cycle to help that rebuild and transition. Let me check to see how that's going ... and ... must be an error with 247 because there's not a single DT is listed in Tech's 2021 class.
Yes they're not recruiting well at all this year. Which is why it will take time for the D to catch-up.
Recruiting, as previously mentioned, usually takes a few years to develop a repertoire with underclassmen if you're a new coach. J ham might've had a head-start in that regard since he wasn't completely a brand-new hire to hopefully lay some ground work for this years recruiting class, but so far doesn't look promising. But, guess we'll see.
The assistants matter, but so does the head coach, and it's Year 5 for him. Also, the head coach made the decision to replace chunks of his defensive staff with coaches with very little recruiting / Power 5 experience. J-Ham played under Foster, coached under Foster, perhaps it would've been prudent to ease into "his" scheme over time and not during a pandemic induced practice-strapped season.
I feel you're way too generous in the amount of time you believe Fuente should get to fix the situation.
Well at year 5 I'm not sure what else you would've wanted him to do differently? Sure he could've tried to motivate the players more somehow i'll grant you that. But insofar as the macro-level decisions without the clairvoyance of hindsight (get rid of Foster when Beamer left being the main one), I don't think he's made any bad decisions at all.
Sure I could see that. I don't know what the thinking process was wrt which defense you want to play, but I suspect Fuente and J Ham have had that discussion and felt this was the way to go.
If Fuente got rid of everyone 5 years ago and brought in his own ppl and had 5 years of O and D to reflect on his resume, then I'd be more incline to get rid of him. But the evidence shows that the O is in his style, and as mentioned above he's got arguably a few 1st and 2nd round draft picks on his team right now. The D is not his D yet (it's barely J Hams D at the moment either), and the reason we've lost all our games this year isn't due to the offense, it's the defense (save Wake). I don't know how you can blame Fuente for a shitty D when it's in transition other than your earlier point about easing in to the new D and keeping the old scheme.
I personally would give Fuente 2 more years (not including this year) - even if the buy-out contract wasn't so high i'd still give him 2 years anyways. At that point, i'd be inclined to get the pitchforks out and join you guys. But, for now, I don't think you're giving Fuente a fair shake to fix the team.
you make fair points here
I would be inclined to change my tune if not for one, glaring issue. Recruiting. Fuente has not been able to close the deal. That's totally on him. He's going to have a hard time rebuilding the defense without letting the offense slip no matter what. That task is going to be exponentially more difficult if he can't get talent. And we have plenty of evidence to suggest that he's not going to be able to get even middle-tier ACC talent.
I think the big point that we really disagree on here is the importance of recruiting. If Fuente can't get the talent (and he's proven pretty equivocally that he can't) then he's not going to be able to build the defense adequately. We need talent to compete in the ACC and we're not getting it. That's the bottom line.
I agree. Recruiting can only get worse when 98% of the fanbase is calling for the coach's head. If perception was not reality, I would give Fuente the full contract term.
Recruiting is going to get worse because recruits aren't dumb, and no talented kid with options is going to sign with at best a coach on the hot seat, at worst a dead man walking.
I've addressed my points on recruiting on my response to your other post and won't copy-paste it here.
This is you fighting for Fuente:
And i don't have any cavalry backing me up :D
EDIT: More like this
Another thing often forgotten is that Fuente had a backup plan for a defensive transition, but that backup plan decided recruiting trips were for romancing and that went up in smoke.
Blaming one phase of the game isn't usually my deal. The offense tripped over itself early against North Carolina and that set the dynamic for the entire game. Wake as you pointed out was a disaster. I thought they left points on the field against Liberty, but that's not [edit] front of mind for me.
I'm a big "buck stops with the coach" person. Ultimately it's Fuente's program, and his shortcomings, at least from my perspective.
And personally I'd be much more bullish on the future if he was recruiting worth a damn right now. He's bringing in middle-to-bottom of the pack ACC talent, which not surprisingly is exactly the program Tech is becoming.
Not you specifically, but we as a fan base were ok giving Foster credit and shitting on [insert O coordinator here] during the Beamer years. But it was true that our D carried our team during that time frame. For this year, it's true our O is carrying our team. It's just the facts.
Don't disagree. Should've gone for it instead of the FG at the half, but I guess one could argue the refs screwed us by whistling it dead when they shouldn't have.
O was horrible until they finally replaced Burmeister with Hendon, then it was humming like a fine-tuned machine and nearly allowed us to make a comeback. The fact we only lost by 11 when we gave up 600+ yards of offense is the only silver lining I can take out of that game.
Buck stops with Fuente, which is why he's not throwing anyone under the bus (FWIW). And recruiting on the D is shitty, and the O it isn't bad at all (though it's not good either). I feel more comfortable with what we've done with the O to say that if Fuente and the O staff like a player and recruit him he'll develop just fine. With J ham? As mentioned earlier, it's too early to tell. I hope we somehow get a few DTs but it's not looking like it, but we got Dorian Strong which makes me at least have hope we know what we're looking for. It's just too early to tell, which is why I want to give a few more years to Fuente.
I appreciate your perspective on it. 🍻
yours too! *clink*
The head coach is not just responsible for offense. When the defense sucks it's on him too. He wasted a year with a shit coach in Nix. His heir apparent DC screwed married women on recruiting trips. This is on him
"Women"? There were more than one? As for being a shit coach, is that true? There have been a lot of successful folks in this world who have managed human sexuality poorly, and at least half of all marriages are ending in divorce these days. I choose not to denigrate Nix for his poor choices, being human myself, and either way, he's gone and piling on after he's left the field isn't so praise worthy, in my opinion.
Your personal life is your personal business until you bring it to work. This is especially true for people in public facing roles. Galen Scott let his private life interfere with work.
I would think this is fairly simple to answer. Spring game was canceled 1 month before it was set to take place. The defense was already being installed in its entirety. I think it would have been a tough call to make to transition back to the Foster defense when Foster isn't hear to coach it up. Not to mention the confusion that could happen because nearly zero coaching took place from 17-Mar to the compacted fall ball practices. And then the further complicate matters the defense was torn to shreds with quarantine to start the season. It was absolutely horrid luck and it shows clearly on the field.
I think you make good points about recruitment on the defensive side of the ball. An outbound hall-of-famer coach is not extending a contract and he recruits very purpose built players for his system. Who wants to sign up for complete uncertainty? I get it.
My beef is that the offense. I have never liked it. I am not saying we need to revert to Steinspring but there is something to be said for the power O for blue-collar programs like VT. Traditionally VT has never really dominated the recruiting rankings but their disciplined teams that were hard nosed and dominated TOP could win games. This offense, if it fails, fails spectacularly and very quickly. The defense is still gassed from giving up 95 yards over 7 minutes and are coming back on the field with no rest.
We have QP, HH, Herbert, Blackshear, and a seemingly all-star O-line...run the damn ball and let the play clock get below 5 seconds before snapping again. Is that so hard to do? That is what is perplexing about Fuente to me. The defense needs to be off the field as much as possible so the offense needs to be on the field as much as possible. And I don't want to hear about how defenses can key in on the run...they tried to do that all the time with Beamer and we still ran the ball down their throats. As my man Denzell would say...its like novocaine, just give it time...
It's hard for me to fault the O at all this year. We're close to the top in rushing yards per game in the entire nation and have one of the best OLs we've ever had. If anything, our offense is too good and gets chunks of yards too quickly. I can't fault the O for doing what it's meant to do but sure we can run the clock down till 5 seconds before running a play.
*checks offensive recruiting*
Miss on another 5* VA RB - check
Misses on a the next few 4* RBs we were targeting - check
Have a 4* QB decommit - check (I am excited about Tahj, though)
Have a 4* WR decommit - check
Have your next highest WR decommit - check
Younger brother of a player that loves being here has his pinned Tweet as, "Well, I'm a Hokie" - sounds real thrilled, check
I'm being a bit trolling, but unfortunately, these things all happened and are separate from the defensive staff's lack of relationship building time. Aside from these, oh so much more bad has happened with this class, one that our own coaching staff said would be a banner year of recruiting. We're 41st nationally and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we had more decommits.
I know you're trolling, and I know everyone's being super snarky cuz they're still hurting. I get it.
But we've got a few 4-star QB's to commit. We got a few 4-star WRs to commit. And we have arguably the best OL we've ever had via finding diamonds in the rough and raw talent, and not to mention 3 NFL-ready TEs.
So your focus on the negative is fine, but maybe you're missing the positives (for the O).
To some of your points to other posters, just so we can have some common ground, I agree that we should give him another year or two. I'm checked out at this point anyway, so what do I care? Also, I categorically disagree with giving someone a $10M bonus for doing a bad job and letting them walk.
Regarding your points on offensive recruiting:
1. I have not disparaged O-Line recruiting and agree, I like what we're doing there.
2. Our WR's seem to have a really hard time getting open without it being schemed via a ton of action and misdirection in the backfield...hence we do not seem to have much of a drop back passing game. This is why Hazelton left.
3. TE's have been good, but are they so good that they're making others' jobs easier (see point 2)? However, I will say that right now, TE production has me happy.
My focus on the negative is at an overall product level, and I am not missing the good stuff. It's just that the bad is outweighing the good and the horizon looks very, very ominous even compared to what we have now.
Cheers to your positive attitude and I mean that, no snark.
[Edit: grammar and elaboration on WR getting open]
No worries happy to discuss this with you and others.
2. Yeah we haven't been able to get the traditional passing game going this year at all. There's Tre who's been injured and not his normal self (though he had a decent game against Liberty). Tayvion looks lights out and has developed great, i'd say. The others behind him have been injured (Payoutte) or injurted (Elijah Bowick was it?). The two transfers have done great in blocking for the run but haven't caught much in terms of passes. I would guess that once Tre heals properly he'll be able to get better separation, that will allow defenders to focus on him, whcih in turn will allow Tayvion to get more open etc...
3. Agreed re point 2. That's partly why Hazelton left once Ry Will was benched. Though it hurt with J Mitch being out this past week against Liberty.
I'm just happy there's even FB at all this year. I'm playing with house money, is my attitude.
I appreciate this perspective. There are positives some have lost sight of. I'm not disputing the negatives, but enough threads detail those.
The QB recruiting has been a big improvement; Jerod Evans was a massive land right after Fu was hired. That 10 win 2016 season might have turned out very differently otherwise. Perhaps because Fu did so well his first two seasons, it's making the last 1.5 seasons more painful. Today, however, the OL is amazing, as are the TEs. RBs also a bright spot; Herbert and Blackshear should help restore confidence that talented running backs will be successful in Blacksburg.
The defense is transitioning, post-Bud. Depth is lacking; not sure this could have been avoided. Caleb Farley is definitely missed, but he made the right decision. I'm optimistic about the coaches we have now, and think they (especially TnT) will up recruiting/get the D back where it should be.
Recruiting started strong, and our new coaches will improve it. We've landed some great players and talent under Fu, but last year seemed to have way more than it's share of misses (and poor subsequent adjustments). We did have some four stars commit this cycle, which suggests to me our coaches can recruit, even after a down season. Competition is getting tougher. The impact of UNC's new coaching staff has been extraordinary on the recruiting trail, but I still think our coaches will do well.
VT gave Beamer more than his fair share of chances early on, and it worked out well. Maybe that's just not college football anymore. I'd still prefer VT give a promising coach longer than typical, all things considered, vs. cycling more frequently.
This is the problem - If we were excelling in recruiting, the coaches could say 'yea we just need to get the right guys in to run our new scheme, and we're working on that' - but we're not working on that.
If you listen to Split Zone Duo (formerly Podcast Ain't Played Nobody) you'll hear the hosts talk about coaches showing 'Proof of Concept,' eg; a 'demo' or 'prototype' that shows fans/boosters what the finished product will look like, and how to get there. If the coaches can't can't show a proof of concept with the guys they have now, and they can't show fans how they're going to get the guys they need, then there is no proof; it's just a concept.
Why should fans buy in to this?
this is a great point
well said
I've been avoiding copy-pasting responses I've given, but I will in this case. This is what I said (below) regarding recruiting in another post on this thread.
Proof of concept, to your point, has been shown and accepted for offense. But remember how long it took us to get there with that rebuild. For the D, it's barely year 1 of a new era. You don't have the right fits for the D how are you going to show a proof of concept for the D at all? Answer: You don't; at least not in less-than-year-1 of new scheme. Maybe a good proof of concept was the Louisville game despite the two long busts, but the D hasn't had many bright spots this year at all, while the O has had a plethora of them.
Again, i'm giving Fuente a few years to right the D-ship just the way we gave him a few years to right the O-shipt.
I understand your comments, but I think there's a difference between defense and offense. Fuente showed proof of concept in year one on offense. He got a quick win with jerod Evans, and effectively used the existing talent. This defensive staff has done no such thing.
Defensive staff has only been together for half a year.
Hamilton was hired in December. From my recollection, the last piece of the staff to be announced was Ryan Smith, hired in mid-January. Fuente was hired on November 29th (per Wikipedia). Fuente recruited a new QB and proved his system out pretty early. Hamilton has not recruited a new key player, nor has he fielded a particularly good defense to date.
Maybe Fuente should have hired a DC to fit his personnel? Nah crazy talk. Or he could have signed some ACC DO the last 4 recruiting cycles too. That might help. This shitshow is all Fuente. He lost at home to liberty in year 5. He's out of excuses. Wrong fucking coach. It happens
The sophomore album never gets the sales the debut album makes. If that's the case, you hope that the next coach puts it back together. Otherwise, VT Football will be a one hit wonder.
Led Zep II would like to have a word!
Unfortunately Fuente is more like Weazer Pinkerton than Led Zeppelin II
Pinkerton is a beloved cult classic that has been hugely influential for decades.
If you count Off the Wall as the start of MJ's solo career, his sophomore sold 3x as many as the debut.
What's The Story Morning Glory outsold Definitely Maybe by a huge margin
I have no point to this btw
(wow, this exercise is more difficult than I thought considering majority of the classic acts didn't peak until they were several albums and many years into their careers)
Nevermind is better than Bleach
The Bends is better than Pablo Honey
Loveless is better than Is Anything
I tried to limit to breakout debuts with followups.
The underground indie album with the major label followup is a different category imo
Bends is far superior but sold less, the power of Creep.
If we correlate further than realistically Fuente will have this thing figured out in about 7 years. See you guys in 2028!
Pinkerton is Weezer's best album IMHO.
I think it's the kind of record you have to discover as an angsty, lovelorn high schooler or it never makes sense. A good friend of mine who loves Pinkerton tried to get me into it, and while it's clearly good, I just cannot get in that headspace for long enough to appreciate it, and Pinkerton is maybe the purest distillation of it. Thus Blue Album remains the pinnacle for me. El Scorcho is a banger though
False. Everybody knows that Weezer's best album is the Frozen 2 soundtrack /s
So would Fly by Night.
Van Halen II was pretty solid if not great...but my friends fuente is no Edward Van Halen...I really have no football opinions here as I'm spent....but I like the sophomore album talk...one could make a whole thread on that possibly
Music talk is certainly more interesting than Hokie FB right now.
Yep... On point #1 Liberty's 2019 recruiting class enrolled 10/0/0 -- 3*/4*/5*
The talent disparity is mind-blowing.
I have so much to say about this post, but will refrain as most of these things have been addressed. However this statement alone should be telling for everyone.
We are in year 5. If we keep the ship steady, we will officially be LOLUVA or worse. This is Fuente's team, a veteran team, one that was supposed to compete with Clemson. Instead, we are losing to the Wake's and Liberty's of the CFB world, and getting bullied around while its happening. We are not Hard - Smart - Tough, we are Soft - unprepared - weak. To add insult to injury we don't have reinforcements coming in as we will have two consecutive bottom tier (by ACC standards) recruiting classes.
The trajectory here is not one of growth and evolution, but one that has all signs pointing in a negative direction.
I've made my points on why I disagree with this view in other posts on this thread.
Fuente hasn't even taken Tech to the same levels of success he took Memphis. That is with more money, better roster talent, better facilities, and more time. We are most certainly not where we should be and we are trending down.
Law of averages right? Brought Memphis up, bringing VT down.
Fuente is suddenly running the scout offense...can someone explain to me why I should care about this?
It's interesting. I had heard a quote recently by a former player of Tony Dungy's explaining why he was such an effective coach. Tony would coach the scout team every week against the number ones. It allowed Tony to bring the best competition against his starters, develop depth by coaching up lower level players, and discover his teams weaknesses.
I have no idea if it will work for CFJ, but I did find it to be an interesting approach in Dungy's case.
Maybe he's taking snaps and not wearing the "don't hit me" jersey.
You joke, but that's how I read the description at first: that Fuente was literally playing on the practice squad.
This would actually be a good way to raise money from the fanbase : an auction for an opportunity to lay out CJF.
It would be fun to watch Fuente rail some of the couch potatoes that still think they are in their glory years.
LOL
I don't think Fuente is the right coach for us but I wouldn't mess with that man. He looks like a tank
Hokies with the first possession of the game against Miami.... Hooker takes the snap, jet sweep handoff to Robinson. The play is broken up... Loss of 2 yards... Fuck.
I think Herbert gets the first tote
as long as it's not in the redzone
*jet sweep handoff to the boundary
Fuente: "Yea.... we thought we had the advantage on that one with fewer defenders on that side since it was closer to the boundary. We ran like we drew it up, just didn't execute well enough, and that's on me. But our players played tough on it which I can appreciate."
I don't know how anyone can suffer these comments. The negativity is unbearable.
I am interested if they are planning to have more scout team practice than normal. I would think that is one of the things that has suffered during covid restrictions. The defense needs live practice if they are going to fix the little things like actually making a tackle.
Good to see the team and coaches start to focus after game 7 of the season.
Lack of effort and lack of preparation seem to be 100% responsibilities of the coaches. I agree the recruiting drop off is significant and a long term problem, but I think we probably had equal to better talent that wake and liberty. Whit or the BoV needs to hold these guys accountable to their job. Its a tough job in a crazy year, but that's why you're paid multi-millions of dollars. Big boy job - put up or move out.
The ship on the season has sailed... comments like this after week 1 or 2 is one thing, but after the 7th game? This is either complete ineptitude from the coaching staff, lack of leadership on the team, or both. The silver lining I can see here is that the effort this week, if it pays results, can at least show the non-seniors what some serious prep work can do leading up to a game.
Liberty was an exhibition game
\s
We are still in contention for the ACC Championship game. Has the season really sailed for you? That's a rough outlook.
No we are not. Not at all. UNC would have to lose twice. ND would have to lose 3 times. Not happening.. not at all. Also we would have to beat Miami and Clemson - not happening in this universe
blind and deaf dogs can still be in the hunt
although I generally agree with you that VT is effectively out of contention they are still technically in contention.
This just isn't true. You're assuming that Clemson will be in the title game (a fair assumption, I'll admit, but there is another, slightly more likely, route for VT to get there)
IF (huge f***ing IF) VT wins out they will be 8-2 with wins over Clemson and Miami. We just need a little help with one loss each for UNC and Wake to face ND in the ACC Title Game
Obviously I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell of winning out (and even if we did, unlikely UNC loses again) but it is technically possible.
True, but IF the world was flat, we could walk off the edge.
I would rather bet on UNC losing again than us winning out. To hope for both is a very slim likelihood.
well then i hope we win out
If we win out and ND wins out, we're in.
The destination for this season looks like it has concluded. Mathematically yes, we're in a spot to place ourselves in the ACCCG, but we still need help. I dont see us winning out. Opponents are too strong and we're too inconsistent.
Question: I constantly hear Laaser and Mike Burnop talking about Fuente choosing to practice in the morning. The way they say it makes it sound like practice in the morning is not standard and not how Beamer did it. Does anyone have any info on this? Seems concerning that they bring it up so much.
Complexity doesn't mean better.
The Air Raid is built on simplicity.
Complexity is meaningless if the defense can't do anything well.
They need to focus on one thing: run fits and tackling. Don't give up easy yards on the ground.
On offense Cornelson is trash. Hasn't developed Hooker in the drop back game, hasn't made our WRs better with route concerts.
Kudos to CJFs agent. CJF can be loyal to his staff because of his buyout.
Feels like we haven't had a QB get better over the off-season since Tyrod.
And Tyrod used to credit going and working with his old high school coach for his improvement.
We haven't had a QB play two consecutive full seasons since Logan Thomas
Well, this is the first time we had a returning starting QB under Fuente, and we didn't have an offseason.
You could argue there wasn't really an off-season.
This doesn't make too much sense. Hendon isn't going to be a pocket-passer at all; that was never his game. That being said, he's developed to be more than a 1-read passer for sure. That's good develoopment. And his read game has improved as well since he first got there.
WRs have been injured. We literally don't have the depth right now behind Tayvion and Tre (Tre's been inured too); Simmons and Payoutte were our depth but they've on the sidelines this year. Mitchell has done incredibly well for a H-back, and Gallo is looking like an NFL TE. Separation is tough but we've had how many a few WR coaches come in and out that breaks continuity.
But what most surprises me about your post is that you want to dawg the only good thing going for our team, which is our offense. I guess you can take the Hokie out of the Beamer-years-hate, but you can't take the Beamer-years-hate out of the Hokie.
Nothing about this makes me feel better.
My thoughts exactly.
It makes me feel worse.
It doesn't really mean anything, good or bad until we see the product Saturday. I am glad that something is being tried differently though.
To me it either indicates complacency last week(s) or desperation, neither of which are a good thing.
Remember Brenden Motley's "practice pissed off, play pissed off" post ECU in 2015? They ended up getting smacked in three of the next four games.
What a coincidence.
"We not playing. We serious" is exactly the same thing HokieNation said to Whit Babcock about finding a new coach
So what this tells me is that they took Liberty lightly and got their asses put on a platter. How many times in a season do these coaches and players need to lose to keep their focus and motivation where it needs to be?
It's really every season and too too too too LATE this year!
And we have no WRESTLING to fall back on!
This is Hokie Football under CJF!
Anyone know anything about Jaden Payoute? If he's not back maybe we can get Bitter of someone to ask about him next Monday
didn't he break his ankle? i wouldn't really expect to see him
Something along those lines. Preseason injury. Out for the year.
I feel like we keep hearing about how Fuente is getting more involved with X (the offense and scout team come to mind). Is this a sign that he's been shirking his responsibilities or that his assistants can't do their job?
I read it as CJF making up for Corn's performance. I think he tries to be the CEO type and show trust in his staff by letting the Coordinators do their job and it has shown inconsistent results on O. You could obviously say the same for the D, but it's hard to make that call with half a season of results. That being said, if he wanted to keep Corn around I think this level of involvement should have occured last year either through CJF himself or through a consultant (Jerry Kill, maybe).
I'm glad to hear the team is fired up. I don't see a lack of effort, execution maybe, but I believe these guys want to be here and are trying. I really hurts when you just don't have the horses. I'm not nostalgic or anything, but where are the defensive playmakers and disrupters? Where are the guys where you say 'Man, this guy is everywhere today'. I just don't see it.
On offense. We are a 4 trick pony: Hooker, Tre Mitchell, Herbert (and the o-line). Not having 2 of those guys really narrowed the offensive options last week.
We've beaten better miami teams than this before. Good luck gents.
Yes, but we don't have any DeAngelo Halls or Corey Moores on this team.
Edit: meant to reply to Blackout above
AJ Hughes isn't on this team either.
That was a much better Miami team than this one.
OK, it's official. I'm past the bitch and moan phase. I'll take any "good" news I can get. I just want to crush Miami, to see them driven before us, and to hear the lamentations of their women because this is what is best in life.
How'd you get past it cause I'd love to move on but I can't figure out how.
Step 1: read every bitchy comment on here (many of which I agree with)
Step 2: realize there's nothing else to say
Step 3: also realize that nothing will make me feel better except watching our guys win a game (see: BC and UL games this year)
Step 4: also also realize that it's Miami week which should only be rivaled by LOLUVa week in terms of hating on the upcoming opponent and we are wasting that opportunity hating on our own team
Step 6: profit
you missed a step... collect underpants
Looking at the photo this could easily be correct ratio of the # of TKP posters (represented by the gnomes) and the number of #makethemove posts (the underpants...)
The defense sure showed life, at least.