Why did we continue to keep Hooker in the pocket again and again? Just really tired of the coaching staff. This didnt have the rip your guts out of the end of the last game but this was worse because it was Miami, undeservedly ranked in the top 10, ripe for the takedown, and we proceed to blow an 11 point lead.
Joe,
Can we finally burn it down?
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This didnt have the rip your guts out of the end of the last game
That's because our guts have already been ripped out and we are all numb at this point. This would've ruined my Saturday if I had any emotion left to give.
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Good thing Fu ran the scout team this week or we may have lost by more :-/
Did anyone hear Fu with Lasser before the game? He talked about running the scout team and how he hasn't had this much responsibility since coming to Tech! WTF dude, totally tone deaf and incompetent.
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Yep, he has regressed in terms of playing to win. I don't blame WB for the initial hire...it looked good at the time and I think most of us were excited about having a modern offense. First season was all that could have been expected and more...really fun to watch, albeit with CFB players except for Evans. Steady deterioration since then.
The buyout is what it is and a norm in major college football now. In the grand scheme of things, not a huge amount of money, which brings me to a question for you Joe, or others who know these things more than me. VT is a national level research university with 35K students. Built a medical school in Roanoke recently, with all the significant dollar expenditures which go along with that. Now teaming with super rich Amazon to build a mega adjunct campus in NOVA. Based on a few I know of, we have some truly deep pocketed alumni and board members. So why can't a place that can do these things not come up with $12M for the buyout? Especially since the debt can be spread over time. Serious question for those that know more than me.
Hate to pay him to walk, but also hate to keep paying him $4M a year for this crap.
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I know this question was meant for Joe, but I'll present a theory. Perhaps this is also an indictment of Whit in one or more of the following ways:
He is unwilling to make the case against the coach he brought in and ask for buyout money.
Major donors don't believe that putting up big money for a buyout will result in anything different than Fuente 2.0 because they don't believe in Whit's ability to identify the right kind of coaching talent.
They don't believe in Whit's ability to right the ship because the Corny fiasco has gone on too long, which is related to point $2 in that if he brings on Fuente 2.0 he won't be able to right the ship and will ask for more buyout money.
Just a few thoughts to ponder.
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Well I will caveat with it remains to be seen whether or not they come up with a buyout. And unless you know all the motives of the parties involved, which I don't, it's really all speculation.
If it doesn't happen, perhaps they believe Fuente deserves a non-COVID year to show what he's got, or they don't believe in the leadership of the athletic department and/or university and they believe it's a bad investment of their money. There's a million different consideration for each individual party.
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The offense was absolutely atrocious in the second half. The defense gave the offense SIX chances at least, possibly more depending on when you want to start the count and even a FG on any one of those drives would have won us this game.
We are so good at coming up with creative and soul crushing ways to lose in the most painful and frustrating ways possible.
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I think the D played big and fired up. Certainly encouraging. The playcalling in the second half was inexcusible regardless of execution. We had 5 drives to score to win the game. FIVE. so aggravating. I live my Hokies but corny has to go.
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Defense busted their asses, with emphasis on *some.* There were some drives (second Q) where some of the DBs looked like they were going through the motions. Second half was a different story. What Miami got, they earned by creating outnumbered situations.
Offense, outside of Holston and a limited Herbert, were pretty lackluster all day. They looked slow, even when they were having success.
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For whatever reason, it looked like the light came on for Dax. He made plays and looked to be playing with attitude and effort. I also thought the dbs looked like they are best suited to play a lot of press man, taking their lumps on occasion but also getting some break ups. Seems more solid than the soft zone, where people are always open. Wondering what you think?
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Dax jumped out of the screen against Miami. It's clear he's self motivated toward the team goals. Love that guy, he puts it all on the line whenever he's on the field.
I'm going to give him high praise.
He's a defensive Sam Rogers.
Not the top talent on the field. But a high effort and quintessentially team player.
Fight me.
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I go back forth between thinking Fuente wants out so he's tanking and thinking that Fuente is making so much damn money he has no competitive edge. His kids and his grandkids will never have to worry about money if he just holds on as long as he can to this cash cow coaching position.
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Positives: D played quite well. Murray and Dax both had their best games as Hokies.
Negatives:
Corny is the worst OC in Blacksburg since before the Beamer era
Fuente's clock management is absolutely, indescribably awful.
The D was bolstered by a Miami OL that was in shambles.
We blew a lead to a shorthanded team that really isn't even that good. Fuente is a choke artist.
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We have the most incompetent Power 5 coaching staff.
They cant recruit, which shows in a string of bottom 10 class rankings.
Player development is not coming around. Players rarely correct their fundamental issues. They generally don't improve from their recruiting rating.
Situational awareness during games is just awful. We routinely play scared with a lead late in games and it routinely bites us.
Clock Management is absolutely abysmal. Fuente is Mike London 2.0 when it comes to this phase of the game.
We are bad at a lot of things and great at nothing. It doesn't have to be this bad. We can do better.
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Blackshear should have caught that last punt instead of letting it bounce. Not the first time that's happened this season. Special teams is so poorly coached. We looked like we had no idea how to run a 2 minute offense with no timeouts. Offensive coaching the 2nd half in general was pretty poor and ridiculously predictable. If you're gonna be predictable, at least give Herbert more run. I don't care if he's coming off injury. If he's fit enough to play, use him. Once we hit the 4th and still had the lead, that should have been Herbert Train time. Instead we started passing? WTF. At least the defense played with more energy and pride. But it is what is it is. Nothing will change until the coaches change.
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I believe our ST coach is the second highest paid coach on the team too. It is awful. They do nothing short of a no name white guy getting kind of close to a blocked punt in crunch time.
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Would hate to be in Whit's shoes right now. I see a lot of people saying we should just replace Corn, but what quality OC is buying a one-way ticket on the Titanic right now? This just isn't going to be pretty the rest of the way. Didn't watch most of the game until I came back in at the very end and watched another soul-crushing loss. This has to stop.
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I said this last year too- if Fuente doesnt fire Corny at the end of the year (2019) then they will likely get to go as a package at the end of next year (now this year).
Looky looky where we are.....
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The kind that takes the Dabo approach to getting a HC job... Take over the OC reigns, HC gets fired, take over as interim, cash-in successful end of season for a multi-year HC contract.
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I am really leaning in this direction right now. Call Kill, have him find a OC candidate who is up and coming and can recruit (a little personality would go a long way right now too). Fire Corny, replace him with the new OC and Kill can come along if he wants to. Fuente doesn't like it, who cares? Methinks an upcoming OC would drool to work with what we have and he would be a coach in waiting.
And its an approach we can afford......
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Even when we were up you just knew we'd find a way to give it away. Where was the energy from the offense today outside of Holston? We had so many chances to put it out of reach but couldn't.
I need some time away from this and we need a hard reset from the top.
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Hooker once again choked in the final series, with a Glennonesque pocket presence the entire game but allowing a sack when we were out of timeouts is unforgivable, not to mention the late INT.
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I'm tired of criticism of Hooker. He gives everything he has, every game and is a great QB and leader. We, as fans, need to be realistic. 1999 may not happen again. Support our kids and their efforts. I do agree that we need a change in coaching staff, but our players shouldn't bear the brunt of our angst
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I'm a huge fan of Hooker's and, barring 1 year from Jerod and 1 year from LT3, he's the best QB we've had since Tyrod. But as fans we're allowed to have legitimate criticism of our players. Hell, we do it every week in film review.
Nobody is putting this loss on Hendon Hooker but he was straight bad in the 4th quarter. Poster above was right that he looked scared in the pocket and didn't know where to go with the ball. Looked like he had the yips. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with play calling and pass blocking but still.
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A QB that has been in a Program 4 years should feel comfortable with pocket passing and going through progressions.
It should have been drilled into them so many times by this point that is instinctual.
We have 3 QBs and zero of them are comfortable with this. It's a direct indictment of the half-assed coaching they are getting from Brad Cornelson AKA Captain Useless.
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I'll give you that he shouldn't have taken the sack, but let's all remember that the kid is the only reason the loss to Liberty wasn't MORE embarrassing than it already is.
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It's possible to acknowledge that Hooker was poor on the last drive while still acknowledging that he is the sole reason we are 4-4. They aren't mutual exclusive.
With that being said, this staff cannot develop quarterbacks like we were told.
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And Hooker didn't play for the first 2 1/2 games. He's 2-3 as our starting qb this season, so saying he's the only reason our record is as good (or bad) as it is doesn't account for 1/4 of our season. That said, I'm disappointed with the pocket presence. Either he's not delivering on game day compared to practice or the coaches are failing to recognize that being in the pocket isn't for him and are not adjusting the plan for success. Either way, the offense was at fault yesterday. Hooker didn't look comfortable the entire 4th quarter and couldn't make it past the first read from what I saw.
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I hate the word "choked", but Hooker sure wasn't part of the solution down the stretch- see the PA INT. (It is in the film review.)
I thought Saturday was going to be the day where Hooker won the game with his arm, as he was finding guys open in zones early. But, his reads in the run game were not good and once again, he couldn't move the team when they had to drop back and throw the ball.
It didn't help that Luke Tenuta had the worst game of his career. But, even when the line gave him some time, he didn't pull the trigger.
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Yes, I should not have used that word and been so accusatory about Hooker. He played his butt off and had some really good plays, more than I ever could. But I am seeing the same late game inability in this offense that we saw vs. loluva and K-Y last year. And yesterday "late game" could be defined as Entire Fourth Quarter. When the announcers comment on the play calling ineptitude, you know it's bad.
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They just don't seem prepared for the moment. Many (me) hate Lane Kiffin, but that is a team that is prepared for the moment as we just saw. He knew it was a TD before the ball left the QBs hand. I don't like that expression, but damn it was so true in that and this game. That is on the coaches.
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Great effort. Not enough. Hooker isn't good when forced to throw. Doesn't see the field and holds the ball too long. Herbert is our best player - needs touches in the last 5 minutes - thinking about the 2nd to last drive when we had plenty of time.
Fire the coaches - whatever - not sure that's the fix but at this point who knows. Personally think it's about talent (recruiting)
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I wish he would. Sounds like none of the big time donors or Whit want to make a move unless Fuente starts embarrassing the school. Well a significant number of reputable ex-players trashing Fuente should be pretty embarrassing.
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Make sure NOBODY, especially donors, complain about this school of Mike London clock management coaching skills. Fuente is just a guy with a lowly job like an AP clerk. Saying anything about his job will threaten his livelihood.
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If you are Fuente, what do you do now? You have to change something. Coaching scout team was not enough - for the offense at least. Do you play more young WRs? Try QP4 out? Tough to change when your job is on the line. He loses to UVA again and it all really does burn down.
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Just checked in to see what happened today. Since I am on strike (since the end of last game), I spent the entire day out at Egmont Key State Park enjoying not getting completely pissed off at Fuente-crew. It was absolutely worth it with the family and friends. Whit: I've been Hokie-crazy since 1999. Please let me know when you would like me to return.
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I recorded the game on DVR and watched it later. When I was out and about during the game I saw several couples at the mosiac district wearing VT attire not watching the game either... Not a good sign of the times that so many don't want to waste time watching
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While sitting at the hotel pool in the evening, the guy sitting beside me said, "I see you are a VT fan (hat, shirt)...I went to UVA." I started to laugh (politely that is) at the guy as I normally would. I then realized he was laughing at me.
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4-4 on the season now, and we've entered the hardest part of the schedule. Any Win from here on out, would come as a surprise. I don't care how badly Pitt or UVA is perceived.
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FG after the blackshear punt return. They five possessions with nothing. And did I mention we had the lead until the last two possessions? Something, anything from the offense and we win. Hats off to the defense. Fire Corny. That is the only way Fuente saves his job.
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Fire Corny. That is the only way Fuente saves his job
.
I said this same thing 2 or 3 years ago. I think it's too late. Fuente tied his neck to Cornelson, which I think was foolish, and they've already sunk. Too late now.
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Firing Corn would be lipstick on a pig. Worse, it would potentially give Fuente more time justified to having a new staff. Screw that noise. The whole operations needs to go.
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Zero plays installed in a two minute offense situation clearly (no two or three step drops to quick passes; instead slow developing bullshit he has to read out);
Get a lead - go into turtle mode. I don't have access to all the game data or time to gather it but I would love to see how often we have lost after having a ten point lead in the first half. I can count so many games we lost where we had a 10 plus point lead and completely go away from what's working and just keep punting back to the other team happy to have the lead.
qB runs on third and 6 twice from just outside of fg range in this game! WHY!? throw the ball for a first we want a shot at points
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I used to think the Stinespring bubble screens were the worst playcall in VT history. The 3rd and 5+ QB draw has replaced the bubble screen and it's not even close.
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Start with two 3rd and 6ish-es where he elected to settle for 55+ yard FGs by calling designed QB keepers in the middle of the field that went for losses both times.
Next, explain NOT having Herbert in the game in the 4th quarter with the fucking lead.
Followed by the apparent lack of having coached a 2-minute drill.
Finally, he's got a very simple looking face. No recruit gonna trust that face. Smooth head covering a smooth brain.
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Yeah, I mean I get that everyone is mad about this game. But in a macro sense, we're averaging 35 points per game at a school that historically doesn't get anywhere near that. That's pretty damn good.
Meanwhile, the defense is giving up what, 35+ per game? Who's holding them accountable?
Also, Fuente can't get this team fired up to play football probably 7-8 games a year. That's on him, and a big problem.
My argument is that as a VT fan, it's a reflex to just blame the OC when it's clearly not the only problem.
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Historical statistical comparisons on offense don't mean much at VT considering how behind the times we were for years. It wouldn't take much implementing a new scheme to blow points and yardage records out. The only stat that matters is the W-L column, and it's not great Bob. 4-4 in year 5? Big nope.
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Yeah, I mean I agree with everything you just said. I'm just saying that as a whole, Corny isn't the problem. Fuente not getting the team fired up to play, the defense giving up 40 points a game, and bad recruiting are.
Plus I don't know why you assumed my name was Bob maybe I missed a joke or something
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Yeah I totally agree, my argument is simply that Fuente as a whole is the problem, not an offensive coordinator averaging 35 points per game wherever he goes.
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The offense is functional (for the first time since 2016) because of Herbert and Hooker making plays. There is no dropback passing game whatsoever. There is no non-qb running game without Herbert making absurd plays. The offense right now is trash papered over by a couple of standout players. There are zero answers for two-minute drills. That final drive was embarrassing. Miami conceded the middle of the field, we had free reign to pick up 10 yard chunks, but instead took 7 yard drops and attempted to throw deep. When you don't install a passing game, and don't let your QB throw the ball or OLine pass block all game, then expect results in 2-minute drills, you set your players up for failure.
The last two weeks the offense has been horrendous and straight ugly to watch against a couple of very bad defenses. Herbert is even better than we thought, without him this offense is as dysfunctional as it has been for years. The entire scheme is 100% trick plays and misdirection with no way to move the ball against a semi-competent DC.
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I can't agree with this more. We are eight games into the season and clearly have spent no time developing any semblance of a traditional passing game. So, it's no surprise that Hooker looked absolutely lost when he needed to run a two-minute drill to win the game.
Certainly, Hooker will never drop back and sling it like Trevor Lawrence. But, it's a coaches job to develop a QB and make him a better passer. Our coaches just assume players don't understand or can't improve. So, we spend our entire season trying to never, ever ask our QB to throw.
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His playcalling is absolutely disastrous and totally predictable. And, even when ihe changes it up a bit and that works and continues to work, he reverts back to his bullshit calling. He (and Fuente) have no killer instinct if the team on the other sideline isn't UNCheat. They have no desire to embarrass someone if they have the chance.
I swear to God they go to each others' house, have pillow fights and then quit because it's "getting out of hand"
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Play calling is predictable and not at all playing to the strengths of anyone except for Herbert. Hooker isn't a pocket QB, yet we had so many pocket plays called in the 4th....
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If you didn't know there was going to be some variation of the run on both 3rd and 6's at the edge of field goal range (leading to the long miss and the punt), you haven't been paying attention to Cornelsen's coaching career. Worse yet, Miami knew what was coming. Check the numbers in the box on those plays.
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The #Hokies' final five drives:- 8 plays, 37 yards, punt from the Miami 38- 3 plays, 5 yards, punt from own 45- 1 play, interception- 5 plays, 5 yards, punt- 11 plays, 34 yards, turnover on downsThis one was well within VT's grasp.— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) November 14, 2020
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Ignoring the last drive as a last gasp, let's look at the playcalling on the other 17 plays of those four drives. This was the time to run Miami off the field and we had two RBs who seemed hot - KH with a hammy to consider and Holston who had played his guts out. Out of the seventeen plays KH touched it twice - a one yard run and the other a first down run of ten yards. Holston touched it once - a pass play for (you guessed it) a first down. So two out of our three touches for the hot RBs gets two of our three first downs. Our only other first down in the 17 plays was a penalty on a pass. How in the world does Holston/KH not get more touches at that point in the game when you would like to run clock and score points? Especially Holston, who looked awesome gets ONE touch out of seventeen plays.
Second question - where is Keshawn King/Tahj Gary in all this? If KH has a hammy, isn't it next man up around here? Keshawn was our up and coming back last year and to date I think I have seen him on the kickoff return team a few times (if he can return kickoffs can't he return punts?). If these two are sitting on the bench and then wind up in the transfer portal at the end of the year and go on to excel elsewhere, I think my head is going to explode.
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Three years of high school in Morgantown, I can assure you there was way more furniture burning then big wins.... all they needed was a drunk Saturday night....
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We just lost by 1 point to my 2nd-most-hated rival, and my mood is no different than it was at 11 AM. The apathy is setting in, Whit. Make the move before it's too late and we lose the fanbase for good.
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Lmao, I just got a text from VT inviting me to a Rec sports Hokie Hike. Been graduated for over 8 years now. Anyone else get that? I guess it's symbolic that the fan base is likely taking a hike now.
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Cornelson continues to innovate the future and find new ways for the offense to choke games away. Tough to pin the offensive issues, didn't feel hooker played well at all in the second half but the receivers didn't look to be getting much separation either.
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Hooker and Patterson have been with the program for 4 and 3 years having come in as high 4* recruits and neither is a developed passer with each having fundamental footwork issues still today.
It's pretty damning that our coaching staff hasn't been able to really develop either player.
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Honestly, UM coaching was worse than ours. They were facing worst power 5 rushing D and didn't utilize their mobile QB nor RBs. They could've blown us out
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I actually wondered about that early (before I took my nap), and then, now, i wonder if they maybe just figured to themselves "Fuente and Corny will hang themselves somehow, just be patient"
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It's obvious that we go into a prevent offense when we have a lead in the second half, calling QB keepers and other "safe" plays. Since we are so obvious about our plan, I don't understand why we don't put in our running QB. Patterson could batter his way through the defense and eat up clock and might occasionally get us a TD of FG. This would be very effective if we also had KH in the game.
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First off, shout out to the players for busting their asses today. Defense looked pretty solid for the most part.
The worst part of everything? I'm just numb to VT football now. I was at VT for ten years, during some of the best seasons we've had. I was the guy running up and down the East Stands, getting entire sections to stand up and scream during timeouts at the 2006 Clemson game to mess with them. I believed that Saturday wasn't a success unless I had no voice on Sunday.
Now? The game goes on in the background and I watch what I can while doing other things. I was surprised to see us ahead and just kind of shook my head knowingly when we fell behind. That's just how things are for me now. I hate to say it. I love VT and will always cheer for our athletes, but I'm no longer emotionally invested. If my season tickets weren't already paid for next year, honestly I'd probably drop them. Guess I punt on that decision for another year.
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I mean we are at about an hour after this game and there really isn't much action on this thread. This time last week, there were twice as many comments. The engagement just isn't there right now, and if it's like this with a fan site, it's got to be really bad across the fanbase with the casual fans.
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I'd argue there is minimal engagement with casual fans. All my family are tech fans and used to watch the games but out of the 7 members who went to tech, I didn't go but ik the only one that still watches the games now. They all ask me how it's going since they know I'm always watching but they know it's not worth the time. I don't think people realize how empty lane would be this year with how bad the football is this season if fans were actually allowed in.
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Yeah I'm especially glad there was almost no fans in the stands for our lane stadium loss to liberty... And I will be thankful there's almost no fans in lane when we lose to UVAh
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You're spot on. Even though it's a small sample size, TKP is probably more engaged that the whole, so I can only imagine the apathy for the average fan.
I think the day the buyout drops next month we see movement
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I don't really care anymore. I thought we were going to eek this one out but it didn't matter because of our record so far and the tarnishing loss to liberty. When we inevitably went behind it didn't surprise me because I knew it was coming. I'm just glad it was a nooner to get it over with so I can get some other things done on my Saturday.
Honestly I care more about penn state going winless from here on out than I do tech winning out the rest of the season. I'm just losing interest in our team
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I'm getting used to us losing. This must be how UVA has felt for sooo long. I enjoy watching our team play. But I don't expect to win anymore. We just aren't very good overall. Flashes here and there...but not good enough week to week for me to have any faith in expecting a win. I was glad to see a close score though.
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The fact that the game has been over for a while now, yet (as of this post) the vent thread only has 69 posts (nice), tells you all you need to know about the apathy and general feeling of being resigned to our fate that this fanbase has right now in regards to this program.
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Just laughing at the idea that earlier this week there was discussion of how we could ourselves in the ACCCG... now I'm just thinking how creative can we get on offense and put all 4 qbs on the field at once at just see what happens. Kadum under center, QP at fullback, Burmeister and Hooker in the slot. I mean why not, right? The bowl games are a given this year - let's at least make the offense fun to watch if nothing else just to see how crazy we can screw things up.
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I'm case you're wondering, Ox isn't taking things well right now
Fuente's last 35 games:18-17Beamer's last 35 games:19-16Thanks Whit - you've made VT football even worse - Either make Fuente fire his garbage ass OC or kiss my contribution goodbye 👋 Dude has zero friggin' clue - Jerry Kill warned everyone!— 𝐎𝐗 (@OX_VT) November 14, 2020
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That just sent me down a twitter rabbit hole of reading what dwight vick has to say about current VT football --- he feels like the rest of us about CornFu. At least he still watches the games... I am impressed by that.
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Fuente's already lost to Liberty and Miami. Wonder if he'll make the ol' most hated hat trick in a single season and lose to UVA too? He's already got bonus points for adding UNC to that. He might as well throw Narduzzi and Pitt in for good measure.
In short...Whit, pls.
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I think he's going to test the limits on what Whit is willing to stomach before firing him.
I don't see another sure win on the schedule. There are games we should win, but it's hard to have faith it'll happen after the last few weeks. I would not be completely shocked if we lose out. Part of me is kind of expecting it.
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I'm not being snarky, but there hasn't been a "should win" since Wake. The only thing that has changed is our perception of what we can win and we're rapidly sinking in to mediocrity being the best case scenario. I dont see us beating Pitt, sure as hell can't keep up with Clemson, and UVA is a 50/50 toss up.
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The UVA game this year is win-win. A victory would warm my cold, dead heart. A defeat would only further demonstrate what a wet paper bag of a coach Fuente is, and would hopefully make any decision making on Whit's part a little easier.
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We're not just losing to Clemson at this point.... We may as well spend that week (and the bye week) prepping for UVA in addition the the week we already get before the game.
If Clemson doesn't score 14 defensive points and hang 60 on our defense, I'll consider it an accomplishment.
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Did not see the game, so cannot comment on the game itself, but will say season-long things. First is what I said weeks ago for Fuente this year (including a bowl game, so 12 potential games):
9+ wins = great
8 wins = depends on what happens in the various games, but would probably be pretty happy
7 wins = another disappointing season, but I probably won't go off the deep end as Fuente will have (for the 3rd or 4th straight year) done the minimum needed to stick around
6 wins or less = I want Fuente gone as soon as VT can afford to get rid of him
9 wins = mathematically impossible now
8 wins = maybe a 0.12% chance of that
7 wins = the best we can practically hope for, and is a possibility
6 wins or less = the most likely scenario
Last thing. VT's record in games we are underdog = 0-1
VT's record in games we are favored = 4-3, heavily favored in 2 of those 3 losses
Yes, I know there was no rational reason why we were favored against Miami and I would have considered a win here a big upset, but to the people who were supporting Fuente because we were favored, we are 4-3 in favored games. Don't see how people can want to keep him when coupled with the crap-a__ recruiting. I am just bummed that we are (probably) stuck with him for at least another year if not two.
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Not really angry at this one. I had some questionable play calling.
D played great.
Another missed FG cost us the game.
As much as people want to bitch about corn and Funand how they actually play in the game we are 2-3 missed field goals from winning the last two games.
Yes I know we shouldn't be In a position for that but the other team gets a vote and sometimes our payers don't execute.
At least we aren't PSU right now. Could be worse.
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You're entilted to your opinion based on that observation, but Fuente is now 1-10 in games where the spread was 3 or less. To me that's an indictment on coaching. He cant outcoach the other team, if we were always '2-3 missed field goals away' then why are we coaching ourselves into that position.
My example, running the ball on a 3rd and 7 (twice) to set up a 50+ yard field goal. We cant really blame missed FG's for losing the game when it's a 50+ yarder in college that the play calling is setting up the team for
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Edit - aw shit, you put that edit at the bottom now.
Edit 2 - what in the hell you changed it again. This is some postmodern ass football. What is real? Am I real? Does it matter?
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LOL Anyone that says Whit has the money for a buyout is either lying or off their meds!! This Athletic Department will be $40-50 million large in the red this year. I see layoffs soon and possibly dropping some sports next summer. REPEAT AFTER ME: THERE IS NO BUYOUT MONEY. THERE IS NO BUYOUT MONEY!! I wish there were and VT could hire someone with offense and big time recruiting experience, say a Tony Elliot from Clemson, but there is no money for this year and maybe the year after. Sad to think about but it is what it is. UNCheat had Fedora and finally bought him out but VT doesn't have that type cash, unfortunately. Good hire 5 years ago but just hasn't, and probably won't, work out.
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Even if Whit has the buyout money, what kind of coach and staff can we even afford? I'm pretty sure if Fuente had a budget commensurate with a top 25 school we'd be in a much better position. Recruiting, coaching hires, and infrastructure all lag behind our peers--buying out Fuente and starting new doesn't change any of that.
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Believe she's referring to Mike Young's approach of getting big name or high quality assistants when he came to Tech as opposed to bringing the staff from his former school. Seems like that may have been a mistake by Fuente when you look at the nosedive recruiting has taken, though to be fair Mike Young only has one good class under his belt and Fuente pulled two solid classes before this recent fall.
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I'm still a little confused... sorry I'm not trying to challenge I'm just dense
So Fuente brought his guys on offense, no? He didn't try to bankroll a new staff with candidates who had non-Fuente resumes, he just tried to bring all his guys. Except defense, where he would have had to replace Bud, which is - to put it plainly - impossible, so he stuck with what we had. I would have made the same decision(s) had I been in that position, I think.
I don't know where I'm going with these questions I just have no idea whats goin on
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Say instead of bringing Brad Cornelson, Fuente brought in an OC or QBs coach with P5 experience and success both on the field and in recruiting. One of the big concerns when Mike Young was hired was his ability to recruit, so he brought a staff that had proven they could recruit at the P5 level and with ties to the area. Agreed that it didn't make sense for Fuente to overhaul the defensive staff, but on offense he just brought his guys. Which did nothing to address the recruiting concerns.
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And that's a bingo! Young did a great job of bringing in new faces and embracing change fuente went to comfortable route and it's blowing up in his face right now.
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I am sure our wonderful AD that you guys love so much will look at these two losses as not a big deal since they were ranked teams and give fuente another extension...
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I would be fine with Keeping Fuente if he got rid of Cornelson. What a bunch of bonehead calls there. I dont think we were trying to play it safe because we werent letting the clock run down at all in the 4th. If we werent playing safe, then the play calling was definitely not designed to take advantage of the Miami weaknesses that we saw the entire first half.
This whole season has come down to one defensive stop or one offensive score to win the game. The defense, in my opinion, gets a pass being in year 1 of Jham. But there is absolutely no excuse for the offense to get that score when we need it. Wake Forest, Liberty, and now Miami should have all been wins that our offense delivers to us.
Cornelson has to go. If Cornelson doesnt go then Fuente does.
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Me too. Put Cornelson in a corner of the pressbox with a box of cracker jacks and his "ding-a-ling: and have CJF call ALL the offensive plays! Hell, Jerry Kill told him last year to get rid of the guy and he's cost VT 2 wins this year! You want him around? He's one of your buds, along with that useless ST coach? Go coach at Northwestern Oklahoma A&M and ruin their offense and special teams!! If WB doesn't make CJF can this clown after the "season", the you know what is going to hit the fan, and what little $$ is coming in will start drying up. $470,000 for this crap of an OC? Come on WB!! You can, amd better, fix this problem.
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IF Fuente is no longer coaching at VT after this season, it's going to be interesting to see where he ends up. He's young, and extremely well respected in the coaching world. Would be interesting to see if he gets another G5 job, or if he goes to be an OC at a big(ger) time program.
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You know, as someone who knows his character fairly well, the fact that you'd say that about him without any evidence whatsoever says a lot more about your character than it does about his. Just wanted to put that out there.
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Ok guy. Glad you guys are buddies but I've watched him throw players under the bus during his tenure here so I guess we'll see how well you know your friends when the chips are down.
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I have had season tickets for 25 years and I am a Golden Hokie. I deferred my tickets this year so I will be going to the games next year. But, if Fuente is still the coach, that will be my last season. I love VT but I can not support this type of consistent sub par performances. The Fall is a great time to be out and about traveling and I have always deferred to spend Saturdays in Lane. If it is no longer fun, then I may as well travel during the Fall and watch the games from some exotic bar in the tropics or anywhere else and turn it off it gets too ugly. Cheers to you all and hopefully a change will be coming soon.
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Are high dollar doners even more delicious than the cheap ones near the taxi stand? If so, what fancy place is serving these high dollar doners and how can I get my hands on one?
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If Babcock could choose between a Golden Hokie that is so called irrational or you, a self proclaimed rationale fan then he would choose the former 100 times out of 100. That's the way college football works. If you don't like it then watch a different sport.
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As is your right!! PLEASE, make sure WB knows exactly why you are making his change!! Remember the Chinese proberb, "The Journey of a Thousand Miles begins with one step!!: The more angry ( not nasty, just angered) posts/tweets/e-mails he gets on the same subject, the harder it will be to ignore the obvious problem!!
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Fuente coaches like a man who knows he isn't going to lose his job this year. And Whit hasn't come out with any LiveJournal statements like he did after ODU or Duke (can't remember which) when he publicly stated the program needs to change.
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Its was really encouraging to see the defense play better today, only to get hung out to dry by Cornelsen and Fuente. So sick of watching these clowns,
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Yeah, D played one of their better games. I saw attitude and effort. Dax and Murray played their best games in some time.
Absolutely abysmal play calling and execution on offense for the whole 4th quarter. Incredibly bad play call to go for it all with more than 5 mins left, resulting in the interception. IMO, got to have a feel for the game and realize best to drive the field, using clock and try not to give them any time left. Inexplicable to not use Herbert and Holston at that point.
Watching UVA. They play hard and make the best of what they have. Constant attitude and effort which will give them the Cup again this season.
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What's interesting is I actually remember when Fuente first got here in 2016 he was very aggressive and took risks. It was a breath of fresh air in that department especially after Beamer. As the years have gone on he has regressed in that regard to a point where he is now even worse than Beamer at taking risks. He coaches to "not lose" now more than he coaches to win.
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Reminds me of what he said in the 2016 ACC Championship post game press conference that if we had scored we would have went for 2 and the win on the final drive. I remember arguing with Clemson fans that night about how we were on the rise and will be playoff contenders in 5 years and they responded with he will be poached by a bigger school before that happens. Boy we were all wrong that night.
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I'm sorry, if Fu isn't gone at the end of this year, my Hokie Club donation is gone. Do we really have to be dumb enough to either wait for it to work out or have the TCU job open up? Because that's what's happening. Good luck raising bucks for next year. We canned a legend after 4 mediocre years, yet we can't get rid of Fuente after five? Done with this program.
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We put a big ass buyout on his contract when we thought he was worth holding on too. I think we're stuck with him, but I think he'll be forced to offer a sacrifice (Corny) in order to appease boosters and fans...unless the athletic department and school don't give a shit about winning.
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Isn't Corny just on a one-year contract? If so, Whit should just refuse to renew it. If Fuente throws a fit and insists on him staying, then he can quit and walk away from his buyout.
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I'm not sure about corny's contract, but Fuente will to make some kind of olive branch to the fan base and boosters imo.
Actually fuck it, I'm only talking myself into Fuente sticking around because of the buyout...I want him gone. The guy has damaged recruiting, outside perception of the program, ties with alumni players, and the on-field product itself. I pray Whit gets 10 million (after Dec 15th) for his X-Mas present.
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Y'all took a side of a man that would've left that program in a second for more money. And as much I hated him I loved the my brothers n the program more . I would've never left unless it was to the nfl and that's law ! But enough venting #ItsAllAboutTheU 🥱— TrevonHiLL (@TrevonHill94) November 14, 2020
Why did I even see this on my timeline (I don't follow Trevon Hill)? Brendan Hill, who I do follow, liked it.
Ooof.
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I agree with this tweet here. Corn does not get the ball to the hot hand when he needs to. When we had a CRITICAL 3 & 4 against UNC we ran 2 plays and neither of them was giving the ball to a healthy Herbert. It was nuts.
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It sucks to see us lose in such horrifying fashion like that two weeks in a row. I'm not sure which loss was worse.
Offense was frankly inexcusable pretty much the entire second half. Defense finally stepped up and nearly won that game on their own, only to see the offense shit their pants like a bunch of n00bs. Thing is, if both O and D played to their potential, we'd be pretty goddamn good. This year may be a mulligan of sorts. But if Fuente loses to UVA again, he's gotta go. Full stop.
P.S. And that whole baylor bullshit. FU Fu.
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Virginia Tech is sixth nationally in returning production from last year, and is unlikely to finish .500. In year five of a coaching tenure, that's all you need to know
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Just finished watching the game. What can you say. When you run the ball up the middle with HH on 3rd and 6 to set up a 55 yard FG it says you didn't come to win.
I love our kids! I'll watch and cheer them on! I'll wait with anticipation as to who the new coach will be.
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I actually laughed out loud at this comment. It gave me an interesting mental image: What else could Fuente do that he hasn't already done? Ah, he could come to my house and kick me directly in the dick. I think that's all that's left.
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Raheem Blackshear had 6 carries for 2 yards (0.3 yard avg). The dude is not a running back that can start ACC games... and Herbert's injury has exposed this. I'm sorry to say it and I'm sure he's a great kid. We would have been better off giving Holston all of Blackshear's carries... Holston had a 9 y/c avg. as opposed to 0.3 y/c avg.
I put this squarely on the shoulders of Fu/Corn and not Blackshear. Fu/Corn's talent eval is off here and they'll figure it out way too late.
Mike Burnop was also hammering VT for not fielding those late in the game punts. It's clear that no one wanted to make a mistake but you can't play scared like that.
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The not fielding punts was near suicidal. Instead of starting at the 20-25 we were on the 5. Every analytic would tell you how dumb of an idea it is to play that bounce
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It's clear that no one wanted to make a mistake but you can't play scared like that.
The team takes the character of their coaches, when you are running draws on 3rd&Long in scoring position, its hard for the players to be aggressive anywhere.
Not to mention that fielding punts has been an adventure for several seasons now; we are paying Shibest ~$450k for this, which is an absurd amount to pay nearly any ST Coordinator especially one who presides over a distinctly average unit.
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What's embarrassing is all you need is someone to just field the punts but that is an issue now that if teams pick up on it can be a real issue going forward
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If we are not going to field the punts, why not just have an extra guy every time and go for the block. For $450k a year, we should get a blocked FG or Punt or something every once in a while. Oh wait...
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Now that you mention it, I think I've been viewing Blackshear through the comparison against some of our previous RBs that probably had about the same talent level and figured he was around average. But Holston did look pretty good yesterday, agreed on elevating him.
And it is entirely true that our punt return game is whack. I don't want to pin this on any player because it's clear that this entire phase of the game is a problem so I'm pinning it on Shibest.
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We were told Blackshear would do a little of everything on the offense and thus far I don't think he has. Definitely haven't maximized his skil set and it wouldn't shock me at all if he transfers after this year.
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For what it is worth, I thought Fuente and Staff were the best offensive coaches in today's game. That isn't a compliment.
Miami did a horrible job of exploiting our weaknesses.
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I felt like Miami was running a classic stinespring offense, lot's of runs up the middle for minimum gain, relyign on the mobile QB to make something happen
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I was impressed by our level of effort, togetherness, competitiveness, and positive team spirit, today. I think we have a great bunch of kids on our team, and it was a very winnable game. Our coaching was not a huge help to our effort today.
End of the day we lost. We lost to Liberty, and we lost to WF. We're 4-4. The body of work is clear in year 5, and today did nothing to change that. It is time. Come Dec. 16 Whit needs to stand tall and push the button, short term pain for longer term gain. There is no reason to believe this program has any foreseeable hope of returning to the ACC Championship game, not without change at the top. Hate to say it, I actually like a lot of things about CJF.
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Many agree with you, but no one will/can answer the fundamental question: Where does the money come from? If you have any ideas please let us all know!! Thanks!! ($3 million a year for four years).
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I hate the thought, but Clemson cut mens track and cross country to save $2 million a year. If the big donors don't step up, cutting a sport/sports is the only option and I'm just not sure I can see Whit doing that.
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None of us have the athletic department's financial statements to point to a line item either.
The reality is that Whit needs to weigh the cost of $2.5MM to pull the trigger on 12/16/20 versus waiting until 12/16/21 and the program being in a deeper hole from both a performance and recruiting standpoint. As the loses continue to stack up, fan apathy kicks in, and the donations dry up. What is the cost of killing the proverbial cash cow of the department?
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I was impressed by our level of effort, togetherness, competitiveness, and positive team spirit, today. I think we have a great bunch of kids on our team, and it was a very winnable game.
Totally agree. The defense played so well. The team fought so hard. Winnable is the same term that I'd use and it makes the loss even tougher.
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I think more than anything, I just long for the day that an actual discussion can be had about recent and upcoming games, pointing out bright and frustrating things, but never once mentioning that any coach on staff should be fired. That is my dream. I imagine that a new coach could achieve that for at least a season.
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Everybody talking about lack of money for staff and resources as part of our problem. We absolutely are not in the same league as most SEC programs or Clemson when it comes to salaries and facilities but how do we compare to Marshall, Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Indiana and App State?? All ranked and better than us. Inexcusable.
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I don't disagree with your premise except about Liberty. They've got money for days and are spending at a ridiculous rate.
If you haven't driven through Lynchburg in a few years, you're in for a shock when you do.
edit:
Liberty has spent more than $150 million on athletic facilities in the past four years, including $29 million for an indoor football field, $40 million to expand the football stadium, and $20 million for a new three-floor, 65,000-square-foot football operations center that opened in April.
Slate, August of this year
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And has invested over $1 BILLION in their campus since 2010 and show no signs of stopping.
Another point though on several of those schools that were mentioned and really look at their schedules. In a normal year most of those schools even with undefeated records wouldn't even sniff the rankings. This season though, ESPN doesn't have anything better to talk about with how mangled the schedules for many have been so they are being made headliners. I don't begrudge them their chance at the spotlight but most of those programs are playing schools that are not competitive. Put most of those schools up against a full ACC slate (which is probably the worst P5 conference at this point) and there might be one of them left undefeated(Indiana, which has made the right moves and is a legit Big10 program now), and most would have losing records. Let their shooting stars shine but they won't be in the national spotlight near as much if football gets back to normal.
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Agree. Also don't think we would be undefeated with any of those schedules. Worst thing is this was supposed to be the year we have been building towards. Downhill from here
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Same as wisec4g, I slept on it and woke up more frustrated than the night before.
We suck. At least 5 years ago, we had a beloved coach and culture. Now we have closed doors, practice in secrecy, and ex-players are constantly taking shots at the team.
At least 5 years ago, even if we had a mediocre season, you knew that we'd beat UVA and basically owned the state of Virginia. We had to figure out a way to keep the talent in state but we were the best team. Now, we've lost to UVA, ODU, and Liberty.
5 years ago, we still had a reputation as a strong defensive team with Beamer ball leading the way on special teams. If we could only fix the offense, then we'd be back in the top 10. Now, we're mediocre in everything. The offense looks good on paper but they are like the guy who hits 3-run homers when the team is already up by 5. When you need a big conversion, the offense can't get it for you. The defense bottomed out and is in transition. The special teams are generally pretty good in the kicking game. But would it be too much to ask to put somebody back who can field a punt.
So we have a team with no standout characteristic, led by a coach with no personality, which can no longer lay claim to being the best in the state. We're just bleeding out. Awesome.
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Ok the season is 💩 now. Let's just try to get the commonwealth cup back.
How about we buy out the FUster find a really good high rev HS coach and pay him like 250 grand. You say well he wouldn't know recruiting. Well neither does FU.
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I would like to nominate HorseOnATreadmill for the head coaching position, at a salary of $250k. I could hire all the best assistants and recruiters to see our vision for the program through to fruition.
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That's really too bad and disappointing that our fans are disparaging him. The kid is 110% effort. His shortcomings in passing development are on the coaches, not him.
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He posted something about how he got on twitter and just had to laugh about all the crap that is constantly sent his way and it set off the twitter keyboard warriors. I dont blame the kid at all for his post, I cant imagine being that guy with the way people act on the internet.
The silver-lining of the Liberty game is the apathy. For the first time since I enrolled at VT in 2001, the football team lost....lost to #9 Miami, when we had a double digit lead, at home....and I wasn't angry about it, I was a little disappointed about it when the clock hit 0:00, sure....but when you expect the outcome, it doesn't sting as bad. Continued on with my day and haven't looked back.
Yeah, I'll still watch the next few game to close out the season, but for the first time, I just don't give a fuck what happens.
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Damn you Vegas. We had a bad week, but you rolled up in this B with HOPE. And despite the rankings, and records, and history, and feels about this year, you hung the "Favorite" tag on us. We were skeptical...but you tossed it out there. You know they old saying "they must know something I don't know......" Well....
But it stayed. We went the entire week...and were still the favorite.
And went 3 quarters..................then, well.
Alright Vegas. Alright. Enough of 2020 jokes with VT Football. No Mas!!!
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Another L is sad. But what is truly sad to me is that I had completely forgotten that we had a game until I got a call from a family member talking about how frustrated they were about it. After 30 years with many, many times 'watching' gamecast (yes...gamecast) in the middle of the night (due to the time differences) during multiple overseas assignments/deployments for 20 years just to keep up with my Hokies...I completely forgot we were playing. Sigh
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Yeah, I don't even get upset anymore watching. I use to get so excited with the lead up, throw stuff, yell, and let it ruin my day/weekend if we lost without any consideration for my family.
Now, I may watch a whole game or quarter or two, and then simply say, huh, that was terrible with no emotion. Time to move on to the rest of my weekend.
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But on a positive note, I got an XBox360 for my BDay. NCAA Football 2011 is going to be immediately loaded, and I'm going to have a great time playing some vintage Hokie Football.
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What ever happened to Fuente's dumbass benching anyone who fumbled for the entire rest of the game? I haven't seen that happen lately. O, maybe it is b/c we/he can't afford to and our 2 deep drop is not great.
Minus Herbert, we are easily 2-6.
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Comments
Why did we continue to keep Hooker in the pocket again and again? Just really tired of the coaching staff. This didnt have the rip your guts out of the end of the last game but this was worse because it was Miami, undeservedly ranked in the top 10, ripe for the takedown, and we proceed to blow an 11 point lead.
Joe,
Can we finally burn it down?
That's because our guts have already been ripped out and we are all numb at this point. This would've ruined my Saturday if I had any emotion left to give.
11 more days to Hokie Hoops, 11 more days to Hokie Hoops, 11 more days to Hokie Hoops, 11 more days to Hokie Hoops....ooohsah, ooohsah
Any time you can run up the middle on 3rd and 7 to set up a 55 yard FG, you have to do it. Those kicks are automatic, right?
Definitely.
Fuente is probably still wondering why they didn't ice us.
They didn't have their goal line offense on the field. No need to ice us.
Good thing Fu ran the scout team this week or we may have lost by more :-/
Did anyone hear Fu with Lasser before the game? He talked about running the scout team and how he hasn't had this much responsibility since coming to Tech! WTF dude, totally tone deaf and incompetent.
I want whoever normally runs the scout team to coach the first team for the next 3 weeks. Couldn't possibly do any worse
We just lost by 1 to a top 10 team
We were 2 point favorites. Should've won. Moral victories aren't cutting it anymore.
You need to remember that the bar has been lowered so much we need to celebrate Fuente's quality loses. 2 in a row against ranked opponents!
Because Fuente had an ineffective, coward's game plan for most of the the second half.
Yep, he has regressed in terms of playing to win. I don't blame WB for the initial hire...it looked good at the time and I think most of us were excited about having a modern offense. First season was all that could have been expected and more...really fun to watch, albeit with CFB players except for Evans. Steady deterioration since then.
The buyout is what it is and a norm in major college football now. In the grand scheme of things, not a huge amount of money, which brings me to a question for you Joe, or others who know these things more than me. VT is a national level research university with 35K students. Built a medical school in Roanoke recently, with all the significant dollar expenditures which go along with that. Now teaming with super rich Amazon to build a mega adjunct campus in NOVA. Based on a few I know of, we have some truly deep pocketed alumni and board members. So why can't a place that can do these things not come up with $12M for the buyout? Especially since the debt can be spread over time. Serious question for those that know more than me.
Hate to pay him to walk, but also hate to keep paying him $4M a year for this crap.
I know this question was meant for Joe, but I'll present a theory. Perhaps this is also an indictment of Whit in one or more of the following ways:
Just a few thoughts to ponder.
Well I will caveat with it remains to be seen whether or not they come up with a buyout. And unless you know all the motives of the parties involved, which I don't, it's really all speculation.
If it doesn't happen, perhaps they believe Fuente deserves a non-COVID year to show what he's got, or they don't believe in the leadership of the athletic department and/or university and they believe it's a bad investment of their money. There's a million different consideration for each individual party.
Real top 10 teams aren't road dogs to 4-3 teams who just lost to Liberty.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Brad Cornelson is so bad. Up By two scores? No need to score anymore.
It really did seem like they were trying to run clock up 24-13 in the third. Makes zero sense
They were trying to run clock up 5 at the beginning of the 4th.
Just insanity
I don't even feel like venting. I did t expect a W today, and then they went and got my hopes up anyone before choking.
It is what it is. And it is not a whole lot of fun right now
I was right there with you, joked with a few friends I expected to lose by 20+ and then we got this.
Felt exactly the same way...when Hooker threw the pick, I was like "Oh this is how we'll lose today, cool."
The offense was absolutely atrocious in the second half. The defense gave the offense SIX chances at least, possibly more depending on when you want to start the count and even a FG on any one of those drives would have won us this game.
We are so good at coming up with creative and soul crushing ways to lose in the most painful and frustrating ways possible.
Justin "finds a way to lose" Fuente
Sigh
I think the D played big and fired up. Certainly encouraging. The playcalling in the second half was inexcusible regardless of execution. We had 5 drives to score to win the game. FIVE. so aggravating. I live my Hokies but corny has to go.
I feel real bad for those kids. They broke their asses today.
I don't think I've ever heard that expression used before
Defense busted their asses, with emphasis on *some.* There were some drives (second Q) where some of the DBs looked like they were going through the motions. Second half was a different story. What Miami got, they earned by creating outnumbered situations.
Offense, outside of Holston and a limited Herbert, were pretty lackluster all day. They looked slow, even when they were having success.
For whatever reason, it looked like the light came on for Dax. He made plays and looked to be playing with attitude and effort. I also thought the dbs looked like they are best suited to play a lot of press man, taking their lumps on occasion but also getting some break ups. Seems more solid than the soft zone, where people are always open. Wondering what you think?
Dax jumped out of the screen against Miami. It's clear he's self motivated toward the team goals. Love that guy, he puts it all on the line whenever he's on the field.
I'm going to give him high praise.
He's a defensive Sam Rogers.
Not the top talent on the field. But a high effort and quintessentially team player.
Fight me.
Looked a little quicker. His tackling form needs some tweaking tho
When it comes to aggression Fuente makes Beamer look like Urban Meyer. It's honestly incredible.
Also according to the Bear on Gameday Tech is now 1-10 in their last 11 games where the spread is 3 points or lower for either team. Not great!
I go back forth between thinking Fuente wants out so he's tanking and thinking that Fuente is making so much damn money he has no competitive edge. His kids and his grandkids will never have to worry about money if he just holds on as long as he can to this cash cow coaching position.
Exactly! He has no consequences.
Positives: D played quite well. Murray and Dax both had their best games as Hokies.
Negatives:
Corny is the worst OC in Blacksburg since before the Beamer era
Fuente's clock management is absolutely, indescribably awful.
The D was bolstered by a Miami OL that was in shambles.
We blew a lead to a shorthanded team that really isn't even that good. Fuente is a choke artist.
Corny calls annoyingly bad plays in key situations but lets not be so quick to forget Brian Stinespring
We have a slightly more modern offensive shit show now. More yards, more flash, same shit.
Stinespring could recruit.
Corny can:
gameplandevelop QBsrecruit anyonepiss away gamesAnd was part of the winning 10 games. Even if he was bad, we were winning.
Yeah, BS!
I'll say it in this thread, too.
We have the most incompetent Power 5 coaching staff.
They cant recruit, which shows in a string of bottom 10 class rankings.
Player development is not coming around. Players rarely correct their fundamental issues. They generally don't improve from their recruiting rating.
Situational awareness during games is just awful. We routinely play scared with a lead late in games and it routinely bites us.
Clock Management is absolutely abysmal. Fuente is Mike London 2.0 when it comes to this phase of the game.
We are bad at a lot of things and great at nothing. It doesn't have to be this bad. We can do better.
Blackshear should have caught that last punt instead of letting it bounce. Not the first time that's happened this season. Special teams is so poorly coached. We looked like we had no idea how to run a 2 minute offense with no timeouts. Offensive coaching the 2nd half in general was pretty poor and ridiculously predictable. If you're gonna be predictable, at least give Herbert more run. I don't care if he's coming off injury. If he's fit enough to play, use him. Once we hit the 4th and still had the lead, that should have been Herbert Train time. Instead we started passing? WTF. At least the defense played with more energy and pride. But it is what is it is. Nothing will change until the coaches change.
Nail on head.
They're gun-shy ever since Robinson's muffed returns earlier this year
I believe our ST coach is the second highest paid coach on the team too. It is awful. They do nothing short of a no name white guy getting kind of close to a blocked punt in crunch time.
Make some moves, AD, or you endorse everything going wrong.
Remember when Whit was all that?
Offense was just dead in the 4th. Ruined a pretty decent effort from the D. Continually disappointing.
Would hate to be in Whit's shoes right now. I see a lot of people saying we should just replace Corn, but what quality OC is buying a one-way ticket on the Titanic right now? This just isn't going to be pretty the rest of the way. Didn't watch most of the game until I came back in at the very end and watched another soul-crushing loss. This has to stop.
Fuente has his chance to fire Corny last year and didn't. If Corny goes, so should Fuente.
I said this last year too- if Fuente doesnt fire Corny at the end of the year (2019) then they will likely get to go as a package at the end of next year (now this year).
Looky looky where we are.....
I assume Corny doesn't have a buyout? At the very minimum, Whit should can Corny and Shibest and use that $3-4M towards someone that can recruit.
The kind that takes the Dabo approach to getting a HC job... Take over the OC reigns, HC gets fired, take over as interim, cash-in successful end of season for a multi-year HC contract.
I am really leaning in this direction right now. Call Kill, have him find a OC candidate who is up and coming and can recruit (a little personality would go a long way right now too). Fire Corny, replace him with the new OC and Kill can come along if he wants to. Fuente doesn't like it, who cares? Methinks an upcoming OC would drool to work with what we have and he would be a coach in waiting.
And its an approach we can afford......
Kill already left...has some role with TCU.
He told Fuente what to do already and he didn't do it.
Simple, Fuente can be the OC and call plays. At least he would have to work harder for all of this $$$
We would save some money too
Defense played great today and that wad the best ai have seen Dax in a long time. Mind boggling what we tried to do on offense the last half
4-4 in what was supposed to be our best season. Goofiness.
He just needs 5 more years to get his players in place and establish that vital recruiting pipeline to
TexasCaliforniaJupiter.Even when we were up you just knew we'd find a way to give it away. Where was the energy from the offense today outside of Holston? We had so many chances to put it out of reach but couldn't.
I need some time away from this and we need a hard reset from the top.
Hooker once again choked in the final series, with a Glennonesque pocket presence the entire game but allowing a sack when we were out of timeouts is unforgivable, not to mention the late INT.
I'm tired of criticism of Hooker. He gives everything he has, every game and is a great QB and leader. We, as fans, need to be realistic. 1999 may not happen again. Support our kids and their efforts. I do agree that we need a change in coaching staff, but our players shouldn't bear the brunt of our angst
I'm a huge fan of Hooker's and, barring 1 year from Jerod and 1 year from LT3, he's the best QB we've had since Tyrod. But as fans we're allowed to have legitimate criticism of our players. Hell, we do it every week in film review.
Nobody is putting this loss on Hendon Hooker but he was straight bad in the 4th quarter. Poster above was right that he looked scared in the pocket and didn't know where to go with the ball. Looked like he had the yips. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with play calling and pass blocking but still.
Most likely he isn't good at that part of quarterbacking. It is what it is. Hell. I wasn't impressed with their qbs drop back skills either.
A QB that has been in a Program 4 years should feel comfortable with pocket passing and going through progressions.
It should have been drilled into them so many times by this point that is instinctual.
We have 3 QBs and zero of them are comfortable with this. It's a direct indictment of the half-assed coaching they are getting from Brad Cornelson AKA Captain Useless.
Not to mention our preeminent QB whisperer, Coach Fuente
I'll give you that he shouldn't have taken the sack, but let's all remember that the kid is the only reason the loss to Liberty wasn't MORE embarrassing than it already is.
This is unfair and wrong.
It's possible to acknowledge that Hooker was poor on the last drive while still acknowledging that he is the sole reason we are 4-4. They aren't mutual exclusive.
With that being said, this staff cannot develop quarterbacks like we were told.
I credit Herbert for our success more than hooker - but I get your point.
And Hooker didn't play for the first 2 1/2 games. He's 2-3 as our starting qb this season, so saying he's the only reason our record is as good (or bad) as it is doesn't account for 1/4 of our season. That said, I'm disappointed with the pocket presence. Either he's not delivering on game day compared to practice or the coaches are failing to recognize that being in the pocket isn't for him and are not adjusting the plan for success. Either way, the offense was at fault yesterday. Hooker didn't look comfortable the entire 4th quarter and couldn't make it past the first read from what I saw.
I hate the word "choked", but Hooker sure wasn't part of the solution down the stretch- see the PA INT. (It is in the film review.)
I thought Saturday was going to be the day where Hooker won the game with his arm, as he was finding guys open in zones early. But, his reads in the run game were not good and once again, he couldn't move the team when they had to drop back and throw the ball.
It didn't help that Luke Tenuta had the worst game of his career. But, even when the line gave him some time, he didn't pull the trigger.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Tenuta get pulled off the field for an injury? He certainly played like it.
Yes, I should not have used that word and been so accusatory about Hooker. He played his butt off and had some really good plays, more than I ever could. But I am seeing the same late game inability in this offense that we saw vs. loluva and K-Y last year. And yesterday "late game" could be defined as Entire Fourth Quarter. When the announcers comment on the play calling ineptitude, you know it's bad.
They just don't seem prepared for the moment. Many (me) hate Lane Kiffin, but that is a team that is prepared for the moment as we just saw. He knew it was a TD before the ball left the QBs hand. I don't like that expression, but damn it was so true in that and this game. That is on the coaches.
Great effort. Not enough. Hooker isn't good when forced to throw. Doesn't see the field and holds the ball too long. Herbert is our best player - needs touches in the last 5 minutes - thinking about the 2nd to last drive when we had plenty of time.
Fire the coaches - whatever - not sure that's the fix but at this point who knows. Personally think it's about talent (recruiting)
I'm guessing this a group chat with other former players. Oof.
I thought it was pretty well known that former players don't like Fuente at all.
He didn't just close off the program to us fans, he closed it off to them, too. At least I remember reading that.
All those Beamer kids are bad apples. Can't have them around.
Must be a lot of bad apples on that 1999 team... Must have been why Fuente didn't acknowledge them at halftime of the Duke game
I still remember that snub to the '99 Team, last season.
Yeah so that the staff could focus on their upcoming game against Duke
And as we all know that extra prep really paid off
OOOF!
I wish he would. Sounds like none of the big time donors or Whit want to make a move unless Fuente starts embarrassing the school. Well a significant number of reputable ex-players trashing Fuente should be pretty embarrassing.
Found how to pay for Fuente's buyout
Fuck 2020
Make sure NOBODY, especially donors, complain about this school of Mike London clock management coaching skills. Fuente is just a guy with a lowly job like an AP clerk. Saying anything about his job will threaten his livelihood.
If you are Fuente, what do you do now? You have to change something. Coaching scout team was not enough - for the offense at least. Do you play more young WRs? Try QP4 out? Tough to change when your job is on the line. He loses to UVA again and it all really does burn down.
Find another place to coach
I think he tried that already
Only in an effort to get more money and resources... Because he's a shitty coach and thinks those will turn the program around.
Admittedly, they might help with recruiting, but kids want to win too.
It's cute you still buy that story
I didn't feel like adding the sarcasm tag.
Oh ok. Went right over my head
Just checked in to see what happened today. Since I am on strike (since the end of last game), I spent the entire day out at Egmont Key State Park enjoying not getting completely pissed off at Fuente-crew. It was absolutely worth it with the family and friends. Whit: I've been Hokie-crazy since 1999. Please let me know when you would like me to return.
Same here except I quit after Wake. Last few Saturdays have been much more enjoyable
Being out on Egmont Key would have helped me feel better about today.
I recorded the game on DVR and watched it later. When I was out and about during the game I saw several couples at the mosiac district wearing VT attire not watching the game either... Not a good sign of the times that so many don't want to waste time watching
While sitting at the hotel pool in the evening, the guy sitting beside me said, "I see you are a VT fan (hat, shirt)...I went to UVA." I started to laugh (politely that is) at the guy as I normally would. I then realized he was laughing at me.
4-4 on the season now, and we've entered the hardest part of the schedule. Any Win from here on out, would come as a surprise. I don't care how badly Pitt or UVA is perceived.
My favorite thing about this team is having my heart pulled through my dickhole every week.
Also it should be noted that Corn is a fucking moron.
Was Herbert hurt? Did I miss something? Why isn't he getting more carries?
He hurt his hamstring last game. Was very limited today - probably wanted to avoid aggravating it.
Except he did play and we we very effective when he was in. He needed to bd in the last5 minutes
FG after the blackshear punt return. They five possessions with nothing. And did I mention we had the lead until the last two possessions? Something, anything from the offense and we win. Hats off to the defense. Fire Corny. That is the only way Fuente saves his job.
.
I said this same thing 2 or 3 years ago. I think it's too late. Fuente tied his neck to Cornelson, which I think was foolish, and they've already sunk. Too late now.
Firing Corn would be lipstick on a pig. Worse, it would potentially give Fuente more time justified to having a new staff. Screw that noise. The whole operations needs to go.
For those saying that Cornelson is the problem, what is your logic? Not saying I necessarily disagree, just interested.
See my post below, like we forgot we were holding the dagger to finish the game off.
See the post immediately below this with Bitter's tweet
Zero plays installed in a two minute offense situation clearly (no two or three step drops to quick passes; instead slow developing bullshit he has to read out);
Get a lead - go into turtle mode. I don't have access to all the game data or time to gather it but I would love to see how often we have lost after having a ten point lead in the first half. I can count so many games we lost where we had a 10 plus point lead and completely go away from what's working and just keep punting back to the other team happy to have the lead.
qB runs on third and 6 twice from just outside of fg range in this game! WHY!? throw the ball for a first we want a shot at points
And he is the QB coach, right? Which QB has he noticeably developed and/or developed a play book around? If I am wrong, please correct me.
I used to think the Stinespring bubble screens were the worst playcall in VT history. The 3rd and 5+ QB draw has replaced the bubble screen and it's not even close.
You are asking for logic and reason in a vent thread?
Start with two 3rd and 6ish-es where he elected to settle for 55+ yard FGs by calling designed QB keepers in the middle of the field that went for losses both times.
Next, explain NOT having Herbert in the game in the 4th quarter with the fucking lead.
Followed by the apparent lack of having coached a 2-minute drill.
Finally, he's got a very simple looking face. No recruit gonna trust that face. Smooth head covering a smooth brain.
Yeah, I mean I get that everyone is mad about this game. But in a macro sense, we're averaging 35 points per game at a school that historically doesn't get anywhere near that. That's pretty damn good.
Meanwhile, the defense is giving up what, 35+ per game? Who's holding them accountable?
Also, Fuente can't get this team fired up to play football probably 7-8 games a year. That's on him, and a big problem.
My argument is that as a VT fan, it's a reflex to just blame the OC when it's clearly not the only problem.
Historical statistical comparisons on offense don't mean much at VT considering how behind the times we were for years. It wouldn't take much implementing a new scheme to blow points and yardage records out. The only stat that matters is the W-L column, and it's not great Bob. 4-4 in year 5? Big nope.
Yeah, I mean I agree with everything you just said. I'm just saying that as a whole, Corny isn't the problem. Fuente not getting the team fired up to play, the defense giving up 40 points a game, and bad recruiting are.
Plus I don't know why you assumed my name was Bob maybe I missed a joke or something
Watch the show Mad Men. It's good stuff.
It's a .gif
In a macro sense, we're a perennial .500 team who loses to teams like ODU/UVA/Liberty and recruits at a C-USA level under Fuente.
Yeah I totally agree, my argument is simply that Fuente as a whole is the problem, not an offensive coordinator averaging 35 points per game wherever he goes.
The offense is functional (for the first time since 2016) because of Herbert and Hooker making plays. There is no dropback passing game whatsoever. There is no non-qb running game without Herbert making absurd plays. The offense right now is trash papered over by a couple of standout players. There are zero answers for two-minute drills. That final drive was embarrassing. Miami conceded the middle of the field, we had free reign to pick up 10 yard chunks, but instead took 7 yard drops and attempted to throw deep. When you don't install a passing game, and don't let your QB throw the ball or OLine pass block all game, then expect results in 2-minute drills, you set your players up for failure.
The last two weeks the offense has been horrendous and straight ugly to watch against a couple of very bad defenses. Herbert is even better than we thought, without him this offense is as dysfunctional as it has been for years. The entire scheme is 100% trick plays and misdirection with no way to move the ball against a semi-competent DC.
I can't agree with this more. We are eight games into the season and clearly have spent no time developing any semblance of a traditional passing game. So, it's no surprise that Hooker looked absolutely lost when he needed to run a two-minute drill to win the game.
Certainly, Hooker will never drop back and sling it like Trevor Lawrence. But, it's a coaches job to develop a QB and make him a better passer. Our coaches just assume players don't understand or can't improve. So, we spend our entire season trying to never, ever ask our QB to throw.
The time that we possess the ball is not sufficient.
His playcalling is absolutely disastrous and totally predictable. And, even when ihe changes it up a bit and that works and continues to work, he reverts back to his bullshit calling. He (and Fuente) have no killer instinct if the team on the other sideline isn't UNCheat. They have no desire to embarrass someone if they have the chance.
I swear to God they go to each others' house, have pillow fights and then quit because it's "getting out of hand"
Play calling is predictable and not at all playing to the strengths of anyone except for Herbert. Hooker isn't a pocket QB, yet we had so many pocket plays called in the 4th....
If you didn't know there was going to be some variation of the run on both 3rd and 6's at the edge of field goal range (leading to the long miss and the punt), you haven't been paying attention to Cornelsen's coaching career. Worse yet, Miami knew what was coming. Check the numbers in the box on those plays.
That last quarter was infuriating:
Ignoring the last drive as a last gasp, let's look at the playcalling on the other 17 plays of those four drives. This was the time to run Miami off the field and we had two RBs who seemed hot - KH with a hammy to consider and Holston who had played his guts out. Out of the seventeen plays KH touched it twice - a one yard run and the other a first down run of ten yards. Holston touched it once - a pass play for (you guessed it) a first down. So two out of our three touches for the hot RBs gets two of our three first downs. Our only other first down in the 17 plays was a penalty on a pass. How in the world does Holston/KH not get more touches at that point in the game when you would like to run clock and score points? Especially Holston, who looked awesome gets ONE touch out of seventeen plays.
Second question - where is Keshawn King/Tahj Gary in all this? If KH has a hammy, isn't it next man up around here? Keshawn was our up and coming back last year and to date I think I have seen him on the kickoff return team a few times (if he can return kickoffs can't he return punts?). If these two are sitting on the bench and then wind up in the transfer portal at the end of the year and go on to excel elsewhere, I think my head is going to explode.
I'm gonna depressingly eat some ruffles
"I am once again asking you to please not burn down the site." - Joe Lanza, probably.
Joe hopes that no one has an extra couch sitting around after this one.....
I thought that was only done in Morgantown after a big win.
Three years of high school in Morgantown, I can assure you there was way more furniture burning then big wins.... all they needed was a drunk Saturday night....
Lmao
It's the hope that kills you.
We just lost by 1 point to my 2nd-most-hated rival, and my mood is no different than it was at 11 AM. The apathy is setting in, Whit. Make the move before it's too late and we lose the fanbase for good.
Lmao, I just got a text from VT inviting me to a Rec sports Hokie Hike. Been graduated for over 8 years now. Anyone else get that? I guess it's symbolic that the fan base is likely taking a hike now.
Our offensive game plan in the 4th
Cornelson continues to innovate the future and find new ways for the offense to choke games away. Tough to pin the offensive issues, didn't feel hooker played well at all in the second half but the receivers didn't look to be getting much separation either.
Miami clearly adjusted some on D.
They wanted to get some pressure pn Hooker and bring Run Biltzes.
Our valiant OC Brad Chokelson reaponded by...doing nothing other than playing right into their hands.
Hooker isn't a developed pocket passer..relying on that isn't going to work.
Hooker and Patterson have been with the program for 4 and 3 years having come in as high 4* recruits and neither is a developed passer with each having fundamental footwork issues still today.
It's pretty damning that our coaching staff hasn't been able to really develop either player.
Absolutely.
As shocking as this sounds, Corny may actually be a worse QB coach than he is a Playcaller. It's an amazing level of ineptitude quite honestly.
I hold my breath every time we throw a downfield pass. Looking like drunken giraffes out there trying to execute.
Honestly, UM coaching was worse than ours. They were facing worst power 5 rushing D and didn't utilize their mobile QB nor RBs. They could've blown us out
They were reportedly also missing multiple OL. We have to admit that probably helped out our D more than a little.
I actually wondered about that early (before I took my nap), and then, now, i wonder if they maybe just figured to themselves "Fuente and Corny will hang themselves somehow, just be patient"
It's obvious that we go into a prevent offense when we have a lead in the second half, calling QB keepers and other "safe" plays. Since we are so obvious about our plan, I don't understand why we don't put in our running QB. Patterson could batter his way through the defense and eat up clock and might occasionally get us a TD of FG. This would be very effective if we also had KH in the game.
First off, shout out to the players for busting their asses today. Defense looked pretty solid for the most part.
The worst part of everything? I'm just numb to VT football now. I was at VT for ten years, during some of the best seasons we've had. I was the guy running up and down the East Stands, getting entire sections to stand up and scream during timeouts at the 2006 Clemson game to mess with them. I believed that Saturday wasn't a success unless I had no voice on Sunday.
Now? The game goes on in the background and I watch what I can while doing other things. I was surprised to see us ahead and just kind of shook my head knowingly when we fell behind. That's just how things are for me now. I hate to say it. I love VT and will always cheer for our athletes, but I'm no longer emotionally invested. If my season tickets weren't already paid for next year, honestly I'd probably drop them. Guess I punt on that decision for another year.
I think apathy is quickly setting in.
I mean we are at about an hour after this game and there really isn't much action on this thread. This time last week, there were twice as many comments. The engagement just isn't there right now, and if it's like this with a fan site, it's got to be really bad across the fanbase with the casual fans.
I'd argue there is minimal engagement with casual fans. All my family are tech fans and used to watch the games but out of the 7 members who went to tech, I didn't go but ik the only one that still watches the games now. They all ask me how it's going since they know I'm always watching but they know it's not worth the time. I don't think people realize how empty lane would be this year with how bad the football is this season if fans were actually allowed in.
Yeah I'm especially glad there was almost no fans in the stands for our lane stadium loss to liberty... And I will be thankful there's almost no fans in lane when we lose to UVAh
You're spot on. Even though it's a small sample size, TKP is probably more engaged that the whole, so I can only imagine the apathy for the average fan.
I think the day the buyout drops next month we see movement
I don't really care anymore. I thought we were going to eek this one out but it didn't matter because of our record so far and the tarnishing loss to liberty. When we inevitably went behind it didn't surprise me because I knew it was coming. I'm just glad it was a nooner to get it over with so I can get some other things done on my Saturday.
Honestly I care more about penn state going winless from here on out than I do tech winning out the rest of the season. I'm just losing interest in our team
^this is pretty much how I feel.
I spent today doing yard work and checking in on the score.
Not even mad, appreciate the players.
I'm getting used to us losing. This must be how UVA has felt for sooo long. I enjoy watching our team play. But I don't expect to win anymore. We just aren't very good overall. Flashes here and there...but not good enough week to week for me to have any faith in expecting a win. I was glad to see a close score though.
The fact that the game has been over for a while now, yet (as of this post) the vent thread only has 69 posts (nice), tells you all you need to know about the apathy and general feeling of being resigned to our fate that this fanbase has right now in regards to this program.
The players at least came in and gave great effort.
Lost his game because Cornelson could adjust to UMs defensive adjustments in the second half.
CJF has to be more aggressive in No Mans Land.
Hooker has to execute better in the pocket. Feel the pressure, get moving.
CBs were horrendous on UMs second TD drive.
I get that COVID has disrupted the roster, practices, and spring ball. But every team is dealing with the same shit.
Good teams find ways to win and bad teams find ways to lose.
We are a bad team. This game was lost due to getting any number of small details wrong.
At a larger level this game is lost because of recruiting. Need one more play, one more TD or a turn over on Defense.
So that's it.
I think we have the worst coaches in the ACC.
Just laughing at the idea that earlier this week there was discussion of how we could ourselves in the ACCCG... now I'm just thinking how creative can we get on offense and put all 4 qbs on the field at once at just see what happens. Kadum under center, QP at fullback, Burmeister and Hooker in the slot. I mean why not, right? The bowl games are a given this year - let's at least make the offense fun to watch if nothing else just to see how crazy we can screw things up.
I'm case you're wondering, Ox isn't taking things well right now
I remember hearing snippets of things that Jerry Kill said but I don't know all the details, maybe no one does.
Hey Joe can we get an AMA with Kill? Or interview and column with an... ahem... 'anonymous sauce'?
That just sent me down a twitter rabbit hole of reading what dwight vick has to say about current VT football --- he feels like the rest of us about CornFu. At least he still watches the games... I am impressed by that.
That's not Ox. Ox threw a fit and stopped following the team and posting on Twitter after wake.
It is OX, he reactivated after a couple days after his dramatic deactivation... lol
Lol I know I was just being sarcastic
My apologies friend. We are all on the same page it seems.
Fuente's already lost to Liberty and Miami. Wonder if he'll make the ol' most hated hat trick in a single season and lose to UVA too? He's already got bonus points for adding UNC to that. He might as well throw Narduzzi and Pitt in for good measure.
In short...Whit, pls.
I think he's going to test the limits on what Whit is willing to stomach before firing him.
I don't see another sure win on the schedule. There are games we should win, but it's hard to have faith it'll happen after the last few weeks. I would not be completely shocked if we lose out. Part of me is kind of expecting it.
I'm not being snarky, but there hasn't been a "should win" since Wake. The only thing that has changed is our perception of what we can win and we're rapidly sinking in to mediocrity being the best case scenario. I dont see us beating Pitt, sure as hell can't keep up with Clemson, and UVA is a 50/50 toss up.
The UVA game this year is win-win. A victory would warm my cold, dead heart. A defeat would only further demonstrate what a wet paper bag of a coach Fuente is, and would hopefully make any decision making on Whit's part a little easier.
Imagine if we had to play my most hated team, Penn State. Pretty sure they would have at least 1 win at this point.
At least I can celebrate Penn State at 0-4.
I hope Penn State goes 0-8 and fires Franklin. I would take him in a second since he already kills us in recruiting our own backyard.
After typing that I looked up Franklin's buyout.... $38.4 million, oof.
We're losing to Clemson and UVa. We'll beat Pitt.
We're not just losing to Clemson at this point.... We may as well spend that week (and the bye week) prepping for UVA in addition the the week we already get before the game.
If Clemson doesn't score 14 defensive points and hang 60 on our defense, I'll consider it an accomplishment.
Hummm? Play the practice squad against Clemson.
I'd say play anybody that needs some game experience and isn't going to get it under normal game circumstances.
Well guys. I think it's officially time.
He is now known as Fuentes.
I'll settle for him being officially known as unemployed.
I would endorse Daisy Fuentes as HC - couldn't do any worse, and the games would be a lot more tolerable to watch.
Plus you'd get to, you know, look at Daisy Fuentes
exactly what I was I implying
Did not see the game, so cannot comment on the game itself, but will say season-long things. First is what I said weeks ago for Fuente this year (including a bowl game, so 12 potential games):
9+ wins = great
8 wins = depends on what happens in the various games, but would probably be pretty happy
7 wins = another disappointing season, but I probably won't go off the deep end as Fuente will have (for the 3rd or 4th straight year) done the minimum needed to stick around
6 wins or less = I want Fuente gone as soon as VT can afford to get rid of him
9 wins = mathematically impossible now
8 wins = maybe a 0.12% chance of that
7 wins = the best we can practically hope for, and is a possibility
6 wins or less = the most likely scenario
Last thing. VT's record in games we are underdog = 0-1
VT's record in games we are favored = 4-3, heavily favored in 2 of those 3 losses
Yes, I know there was no rational reason why we were favored against Miami and I would have considered a win here a big upset, but to the people who were supporting Fuente because we were favored, we are 4-3 in favored games. Don't see how people can want to keep him when coupled with the crap-a__ recruiting. I am just bummed that we are (probably) stuck with him for at least another year if not two.
Not really angry at this one. I had some questionable play calling.
D played great.
Another missed FG cost us the game.
As much as people want to bitch about corn and Funand how they actually play in the game we are 2-3 missed field goals from winning the last two games.
Yes I know we shouldn't be In a position for that but the other team gets a vote and sometimes our payers don't execute.
At least we aren't PSU right now. Could be worse.
You're entilted to your opinion based on that observation, but Fuente is now 1-10 in games where the spread was 3 or less. To me that's an indictment on coaching. He cant outcoach the other team, if we were always '2-3 missed field goals away' then why are we coaching ourselves into that position.
My example, running the ball on a 3rd and 7 (twice) to set up a 50+ yard field goal. We cant really blame missed FG's for losing the game when it's a 50+ yarder in college that the play calling is setting up the team for
And, incredibly, yesterday wasn't the first time we tried this befuddling strategy with a poor, albeit predicted, outcome.
Fuente is gone, Whit has the buyout money it's all on him now. Yeah
Hope so.
Now don't you go getting my hopes up I can't take another kick to the groin
I thought the big problem was that Whit didn't have the buyout money.
If she says Whit has the money, it means he has the money.
He had 6.8 ish last year sold the defensive side was the issue. The day just proves kills point Fuente doesn't know how to get out of his own way
December 16 2020 just breathe
#MakeTheMove
Edit - aw shit, you put that edit at the bottom now.
Edit 2 - what in the hell you changed it again. This is some postmodern ass football. What is real? Am I real? Does it matter?
2021... :/ thanks for the info though!
EDIT: beautiful edit
I'm comfortable breathing all the way through the 2021 season. I have few worries, my fandom has been what it has been since 2005.
I'm curious what our next step would be.
LOL Anyone that says Whit has the money for a buyout is either lying or off their meds!! This Athletic Department will be $40-50 million large in the red this year. I see layoffs soon and possibly dropping some sports next summer. REPEAT AFTER ME: THERE IS NO BUYOUT MONEY. THERE IS NO BUYOUT MONEY!! I wish there were and VT could hire someone with offense and big time recruiting experience, say a Tony Elliot from Clemson, but there is no money for this year and maybe the year after. Sad to think about but it is what it is. UNCheat had Fedora and finally bought him out but VT doesn't have that type cash, unfortunately. Good hire 5 years ago but just hasn't, and probably won't, work out.
Dude JUGS WORKS IN THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. As Henry said if she says whit has the money, he has the money
Works for AN athletic department. Not ours.
Pog face😨
Jugs,
Even if Whit has the buyout money, what kind of coach and staff can we even afford? I'm pretty sure if Fuente had a budget commensurate with a top 25 school we'd be in a much better position. Recruiting, coaching hires, and infrastructure all lag behind our peers--buying out Fuente and starting new doesn't change any of that.
Terrible news if we don't have a decent replacement lined up. And there's really only about 5 decent options
The names I've heard will make Whit look like a savant. Guy won't make the same mistake ie Mike young assistant coach hires.
Please let it be so.
My interest is piqued. I'm not sure how to interpret your second sentence. Were Young's assistants bad hires? Or was Mike Young a bad hire?
Sorry for parsing words, just... looking for clarity.
I read that as he doesn't want to go cheap like how he spent big on Mike young's staff hires
Believe she's referring to Mike Young's approach of getting big name or high quality assistants when he came to Tech as opposed to bringing the staff from his former school. Seems like that may have been a mistake by Fuente when you look at the nosedive recruiting has taken, though to be fair Mike Young only has one good class under his belt and Fuente pulled two solid classes before this recent fall.
I'm still a little confused... sorry I'm not trying to challenge I'm just dense
So Fuente brought his guys on offense, no? He didn't try to bankroll a new staff with candidates who had non-Fuente resumes, he just tried to bring all his guys. Except defense, where he would have had to replace Bud, which is - to put it plainly - impossible, so he stuck with what we had. I would have made the same decision(s) had I been in that position, I think.
I don't know where I'm going with these questions I just have no idea whats goin on
Say instead of bringing Brad Cornelson, Fuente brought in an OC or QBs coach with P5 experience and success both on the field and in recruiting. One of the big concerns when Mike Young was hired was his ability to recruit, so he brought a staff that had proven they could recruit at the P5 level and with ties to the area. Agreed that it didn't make sense for Fuente to overhaul the defensive staff, but on offense he just brought his guys. Which did nothing to address the recruiting concerns.
And that's a bingo! Young did a great job of bringing in new faces and embracing change fuente went to comfortable route and it's blowing up in his face right now.
Ah! Ok! Fully agreed. Thanks for taking the extra time to get through to me.
HUH? MY's assistants are all top east coast recruiters> I don't get your comment/
Good to know. But I'm not getting my hopes up until I see Whit/VT's plane on flight tracker making interesting stops in other collegiate towns.
I am sure our wonderful AD that you guys love so much will look at these two losses as not a big deal since they were ranked teams and give fuente another extension...
I would be fine with Keeping Fuente if he got rid of Cornelson. What a bunch of bonehead calls there. I dont think we were trying to play it safe because we werent letting the clock run down at all in the 4th. If we werent playing safe, then the play calling was definitely not designed to take advantage of the Miami weaknesses that we saw the entire first half.
This whole season has come down to one defensive stop or one offensive score to win the game. The defense, in my opinion, gets a pass being in year 1 of Jham. But there is absolutely no excuse for the offense to get that score when we need it. Wake Forest, Liberty, and now Miami should have all been wins that our offense delivers to us.
Cornelson has to go. If Cornelson doesnt go then Fuente does.
I'd be fine with keeping Fuente... as OC.
Me too. Put Cornelson in a corner of the pressbox with a box of cracker jacks and his "ding-a-ling: and have CJF call ALL the offensive plays! Hell, Jerry Kill told him last year to get rid of the guy and he's cost VT 2 wins this year! You want him around? He's one of your buds, along with that useless ST coach? Go coach at Northwestern Oklahoma A&M and ruin their offense and special teams!! If WB doesn't make CJF can this clown after the "season", the you know what is going to hit the fan, and what little $$ is coming in will start drying up. $470,000 for this crap of an OC? Come on WB!! You can, amd better, fix this problem.
In his defense he is probably one of the best OCs making less than 500k
IF Fuente is no longer coaching at VT after this season, it's going to be interesting to see where he ends up. He's young, and extremely well respected in the coaching world. Would be interesting to see if he gets another G5 job, or if he goes to be an OC at a big(ger) time program.
He's going to throw the program under the bus for his own self interest. He pretty much has to. I think it will be ugly
You know, as someone who knows his character fairly well, the fact that you'd say that about him without any evidence whatsoever says a lot more about your character than it does about his. Just wanted to put that out there.
Ok guy. Glad you guys are buddies but I've watched him throw players under the bus during his tenure here so I guess we'll see how well you know your friends when the chips are down.
That isn't fair or accurate.
Take it easy. People are angry, but no reason to be rude to each other.
I was speaking about a public figure that leads something I am a stakeholder in. This guy started talking about me.
Okay, but my point holds true all the same. Let's not get into it, no one is going to win this discussion.
CJF and BC coached scared today. Needed to go for it instead of attempting long 50+ field goals.
Didn't learn anything from last week.
I have many points to make about the game but one thing it truly verified is Cornelson sucks!
And we didn't even make the top 8 for Zach Rice today. We are completely irrelevant even in our own backyard
Oof.
Rice said he didn't get the "family" feel at VT. He was never coming here and you can bet Givens is Clemson-bound after today's shitshow.
This is the new Tim Sands VT! Let's go, start jumping! (Just don't spill my cab sauv.)
Frankly speaking, we had Tyrone Nix on staff once, and he just got fired at halftime
I have had season tickets for 25 years and I am a Golden Hokie. I deferred my tickets this year so I will be going to the games next year. But, if Fuente is still the coach, that will be my last season. I love VT but I can not support this type of consistent sub par performances. The Fall is a great time to be out and about traveling and I have always deferred to spend Saturdays in Lane. If it is no longer fun, then I may as well travel during the Fall and watch the games from some exotic bar in the tropics or anywhere else and turn it off it gets too ugly. Cheers to you all and hopefully a change will be coming soon.
This is sad because you're an elite-level fan.
You're a high dollar doner but you're not a rationale fan. That's sad
This is a shit take
It's a rationale take in a irrational thread.
You're being irrationale
Ooo you just hit em with the uno reverse card👀
Are high dollar doners even more delicious than the cheap ones near the taxi stand? If so, what fancy place is serving these high dollar doners and how can I get my hands on one?
Kebab
I'm a fan of lamb when cooked right, myself.
If Babcock could choose between a Golden Hokie that is so called irrational or you, a self proclaimed rationale fan then he would choose the former 100 times out of 100. That's the way college football works. If you don't like it then watch a different sport.
I think you should also share this sentiment with Whit, seriously.
As is your right!! PLEASE, make sure WB knows exactly why you are making his change!! Remember the Chinese proberb, "The Journey of a Thousand Miles begins with one step!!: The more angry ( not nasty, just angered) posts/tweets/e-mails he gets on the same subject, the harder it will be to ignore the obvious problem!!
Is them some mudvayne lyrics👀
Fuente coaches like a man who knows he isn't going to lose his job this year. And Whit hasn't come out with any LiveJournal statements like he did after ODU or Duke (can't remember which) when he publicly stated the program needs to change.
Its was really encouraging to see the defense play better today, only to get hung out to dry by Cornelsen and Fuente. So sick of watching these clowns,
Yeah, D played one of their better games. I saw attitude and effort. Dax and Murray played their best games in some time.
Absolutely abysmal play calling and execution on offense for the whole 4th quarter. Incredibly bad play call to go for it all with more than 5 mins left, resulting in the interception. IMO, got to have a feel for the game and realize best to drive the field, using clock and try not to give them any time left. Inexplicable to not use Herbert and Holston at that point.
Watching UVA. They play hard and make the best of what they have. Constant attitude and effort which will give them the Cup again this season.
Yep. If nothing else, Bronco has made them a respectable program again. At the same time, we've fallen off immensely.
This is the most brutal part of the whole thing. I am dreading that game... Maybe covid will cancel it again
It was Dax of old, he played a
real good game. It was like he decided to play his game.
What's interesting is I actually remember when Fuente first got here in 2016 he was very aggressive and took risks. It was a breath of fresh air in that department especially after Beamer. As the years have gone on he has regressed in that regard to a point where he is now even worse than Beamer at taking risks. He coaches to "not lose" now more than he coaches to win.
Reminds me of what he said in the 2016 ACC Championship post game press conference that if we had scored we would have went for 2 and the win on the final drive. I remember arguing with Clemson fans that night about how we were on the rise and will be playoff contenders in 5 years and they responded with he will be poached by a bigger school before that happens. Boy we were all wrong that night.
I'm sorry, if Fu isn't gone at the end of this year, my Hokie Club donation is gone. Do we really have to be dumb enough to either wait for it to work out or have the TCU job open up? Because that's what's happening. Good luck raising bucks for next year. We canned a legend after 4 mediocre years, yet we can't get rid of Fuente after five? Done with this program.
You're in good company with this sentiment.
We put a big ass buyout on his contract when we thought he was worth holding on too. I think we're stuck with him, but I think he'll be forced to offer a sacrifice (Corny) in order to appease boosters and fans...unless the athletic department and school don't give a shit about winning.
Isn't Corny just on a one-year contract? If so, Whit should just refuse to renew it. If Fuente throws a fit and insists on him staying, then he can quit and walk away from his buyout.
I'm not sure about corny's contract, but Fuente will to make some kind of olive branch to the fan base and boosters imo.
Actually fuck it, I'm only talking myself into Fuente sticking around because of the buyout...I want him gone. The guy has damaged recruiting, outside perception of the program, ties with alumni players, and the on-field product itself. I pray Whit gets 10 million (after Dec 15th) for his X-Mas present.
TCU isn't going to want him. I don't even think SMU would want him. His next move would probably be lower level AAC or Mountain West.
Why did I even see this on my timeline (I don't follow Trevon Hill)? Brendan Hill, who I do follow, liked it.
Ooof.
Sheesh.
At this point, if former players are talking about all this in private conversations they need to get involved.
I don't need to know the details - they're on their own conversations. But if they have insights that I won't have they gotta be the people who act.
Heziekiah Grimley is trashing Cornelson on Twitter too
What else did he post? I only saw the one about not using his weapons with a clip of Holston scoring
Grimsley Twitter Post
Right under that he says Corn should've never even been at Tech
Got it, didnt pop the other comments open....and he isnt wrong!!
I agree with this tweet here. Corn does not get the ball to the hot hand when he needs to. When we had a CRITICAL 3 & 4 against UNC we ran 2 plays and neither of them was giving the ball to a healthy Herbert. It was nuts.
Fuck Trevon Hill and his U throwing ass. He's bitchmade
Definitely bitchmade, but that doesn't mean his insight is invalid.
It sucks to see us lose in such horrifying fashion like that two weeks in a row. I'm not sure which loss was worse.
Offense was frankly inexcusable pretty much the entire second half. Defense finally stepped up and nearly won that game on their own, only to see the offense shit their pants like a bunch of n00bs. Thing is, if both O and D played to their potential, we'd be pretty goddamn good. This year may be a mulligan of sorts. But if Fuente loses to UVA again, he's gotta go. Full stop.
P.S. And that whole baylor bullshit. FU Fu.
Virginia Tech is sixth nationally in returning production from last year, and is unlikely to finish .500. In year five of a coaching tenure, that's all you need to know
And he was getting talk as a frontrunner for coach of the year less than a month ago. WTF happened?
He got in his own way, as usual.
Does that take into account Farley, Waller, Garbutt, and Crawford? All are pretty big losses for a defense changing coaches and scheme.
Just finished watching the game. What can you say. When you run the ball up the middle with HH on 3rd and 6 to set up a 55 yard FG it says you didn't come to win.
I love our kids! I'll watch and cheer them on! I'll wait with anticipation as to who the new coach will be.
This one is easy, just kick me directly in the dick. This coaching staff is infuriating and that would be less painful.
I actually laughed out loud at this comment. It gave me an interesting mental image: What else could Fuente do that he hasn't already done? Ah, he could come to my house and kick me directly in the dick. I think that's all that's left.
Raheem Blackshear had 6 carries for 2 yards (0.3 yard avg). The dude is not a running back that can start ACC games... and Herbert's injury has exposed this. I'm sorry to say it and I'm sure he's a great kid. We would have been better off giving Holston all of Blackshear's carries... Holston had a 9 y/c avg. as opposed to 0.3 y/c avg.
I put this squarely on the shoulders of Fu/Corn and not Blackshear. Fu/Corn's talent eval is off here and they'll figure it out way too late.
Mike Burnop was also hammering VT for not fielding those late in the game punts. It's clear that no one wanted to make a mistake but you can't play scared like that.
The not fielding punts was near suicidal. Instead of starting at the 20-25 we were on the 5. Every analytic would tell you how dumb of an idea it is to play that bounce
Clearly Fuente's plan for punt returns is to wait for the next Stroman to show up on campus. I mean, it is the conservative approach.
The team takes the character of their coaches, when you are running draws on 3rd&Long in scoring position, its hard for the players to be aggressive anywhere.
Not to mention that fielding punts has been an adventure for several seasons now; we are paying Shibest ~$450k for this, which is an absurd amount to pay nearly any ST Coordinator especially one who presides over a distinctly average unit.
What's embarrassing is all you need is someone to just field the punts but that is an issue now that if teams pick up on it can be a real issue going forward
If we are not going to field the punts, why not just have an extra guy every time and go for the block. For $450k a year, we should get a blocked FG or Punt or something every once in a while. Oh wait...
Now that you mention it, I think I've been viewing Blackshear through the comparison against some of our previous RBs that probably had about the same talent level and figured he was around average. But Holston did look pretty good yesterday, agreed on elevating him.
And it is entirely true that our punt return game is whack. I don't want to pin this on any player because it's clear that this entire phase of the game is a problem so I'm pinning it on Shibest.
Blackshear is better suited to be a slot receiver. Not sure why they dont flank him out with Holston in the backfield.
Because that would actually make some inherent sense.
We were told Blackshear would do a little of everything on the offense and thus far I don't think he has. Definitely haven't maximized his skil set and it wouldn't shock me at all if he transfers after this year.
For what it is worth, I thought Fuente and Staff were the best offensive coaches in today's game. That isn't a compliment.
Miami did a horrible job of exploiting our weaknesses.
I felt like Miami was running a classic stinespring offense, lot's of runs up the middle for minimum gain, relyign on the mobile QB to make something happen
They had a lot of their online out and that made our d line look like superstars
Anyone else remember when 9-3 was going to be the floor this season, pre-COVID?
I was impressed by our level of effort, togetherness, competitiveness, and positive team spirit, today. I think we have a great bunch of kids on our team, and it was a very winnable game. Our coaching was not a huge help to our effort today.
End of the day we lost. We lost to Liberty, and we lost to WF. We're 4-4. The body of work is clear in year 5, and today did nothing to change that. It is time. Come Dec. 16 Whit needs to stand tall and push the button, short term pain for longer term gain. There is no reason to believe this program has any foreseeable hope of returning to the ACC Championship game, not without change at the top. Hate to say it, I actually like a lot of things about CJF.
Many agree with you, but no one will/can answer the fundamental question: Where does the money come from? If you have any ideas please let us all know!! Thanks!! ($3 million a year for four years).
I hate the thought, but Clemson cut mens track and cross country to save $2 million a year. If the big donors don't step up, cutting a sport/sports is the only option and I'm just not sure I can see Whit doing that.
None of us have the athletic department's financial statements to point to a line item either.
The reality is that Whit needs to weigh the cost of $2.5MM to pull the trigger on 12/16/20 versus waiting until 12/16/21 and the program being in a deeper hole from both a performance and recruiting standpoint. As the loses continue to stack up, fan apathy kicks in, and the donations dry up. What is the cost of killing the proverbial cash cow of the department?
Totally agree. The defense played so well. The team fought so hard. Winnable is the same term that I'd use and it makes the loss even tougher.
I think more than anything, I just long for the day that an actual discussion can be had about recent and upcoming games, pointing out bright and frustrating things, but never once mentioning that any coach on staff should be fired. That is my dream. I imagine that a new coach could achieve that for at least a season.
I slept on it.
I still want coaching changes.
Everybody talking about lack of money for staff and resources as part of our problem. We absolutely are not in the same league as most SEC programs or Clemson when it comes to salaries and facilities but how do we compare to Marshall, Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Indiana and App State?? All ranked and better than us. Inexcusable.
I don't disagree with your premise except about Liberty. They've got money for days and are spending at a ridiculous rate.
If you haven't driven through Lynchburg in a few years, you're in for a shock when you do.
edit:
Slate, August of this year
And has invested over $1 BILLION in their campus since 2010 and show no signs of stopping.
Another point though on several of those schools that were mentioned and really look at their schedules. In a normal year most of those schools even with undefeated records wouldn't even sniff the rankings. This season though, ESPN doesn't have anything better to talk about with how mangled the schedules for many have been so they are being made headliners. I don't begrudge them their chance at the spotlight but most of those programs are playing schools that are not competitive. Put most of those schools up against a full ACC slate (which is probably the worst P5 conference at this point) and there might be one of them left undefeated(Indiana, which has made the right moves and is a legit Big10 program now), and most would have losing records. Let their shooting stars shine but they won't be in the national spotlight near as much if football gets back to normal.
Agree. Also don't think we would be undefeated with any of those schedules. Worst thing is this was supposed to be the year we have been building towards. Downhill from here
Even in Richmond VCUs progress and expansion is impressive.
And their football team is having yet another undefeated season.
True
Culture and commitment.
Beamer had it. Fuente, in year 5, still hasn't set it up.
Liberty's football facilities are so nice that they blow away most G5 schools and are more aligned with P5.
Baylor sucks. Maybe they will make overtures....again!! Please.
Same as wisec4g, I slept on it and woke up more frustrated than the night before.
We suck. At least 5 years ago, we had a beloved coach and culture. Now we have closed doors, practice in secrecy, and ex-players are constantly taking shots at the team.
At least 5 years ago, even if we had a mediocre season, you knew that we'd beat UVA and basically owned the state of Virginia. We had to figure out a way to keep the talent in state but we were the best team. Now, we've lost to UVA, ODU, and Liberty.
5 years ago, we still had a reputation as a strong defensive team with Beamer ball leading the way on special teams. If we could only fix the offense, then we'd be back in the top 10. Now, we're mediocre in everything. The offense looks good on paper but they are like the guy who hits 3-run homers when the team is already up by 5. When you need a big conversion, the offense can't get it for you. The defense bottomed out and is in transition. The special teams are generally pretty good in the kicking game. But would it be too much to ask to put somebody back who can field a punt.
So we have a team with no standout characteristic, led by a coach with no personality, which can no longer lay claim to being the best in the state. We're just bleeding out. Awesome.
Ok the season is 💩 now. Let's just try to get the commonwealth cup back.
How about we buy out the FUster find a really good high rev HS coach and pay him like 250 grand. You say well he wouldn't know recruiting. Well neither does FU.
I would like to nominate HorseOnATreadmill for the head coaching position, at a salary of $250k. I could hire all the best assistants and recruiters to see our vision for the program through to fruition.
WILL MUSCHAMP JUST GOT CANNED
FIRE UP THE COACH FIRINGS TRACKER SOMEBODY WON'T YOU DAMN IT
$15 million buyout?....Hasn't covid cut into THEIR funding?
I'm sorry the paid 15 million to fire muschamp, no wonder he just gave up for that kind of money I wouldn't have even worn a headset
Might as well call the game from a luxury suite with that kind of parting gift waiting.
Jeeze, seriously
#FuentetoCocks
Apparently Hooker's Twitter account was closed yesterday. I'm guessing some of the comments and criticism may have been spiraling out of control.
That's really too bad and disappointing that our fans are disparaging him. The kid is 110% effort. His shortcomings in passing development are on the coaches, not him.
He posted something about how he got on twitter and just had to laugh about all the crap that is constantly sent his way and it set off the twitter keyboard warriors. I dont blame the kid at all for his post, I cant imagine being that guy with the way people act on the internet.
The silver-lining of the Liberty game is the apathy. For the first time since I enrolled at VT in 2001, the football team lost....lost to #9 Miami, when we had a double digit lead, at home....and I wasn't angry about it, I was a little disappointed about it when the clock hit 0:00, sure....but when you expect the outcome, it doesn't sting as bad. Continued on with my day and haven't looked back.
Yeah, I'll still watch the next few game to close out the season, but for the first time, I just don't give a fuck what happens.
This was the first game since late 1995 that I didn't watch or record. I'm having a hard time caring anymore
Damn you Vegas. We had a bad week, but you rolled up in this B with HOPE. And despite the rankings, and records, and history, and feels about this year, you hung the "Favorite" tag on us. We were skeptical...but you tossed it out there. You know they old saying "they must know something I don't know......" Well....
But it stayed. We went the entire week...and were still the favorite.
And went 3 quarters..................then, well.
Alright Vegas. Alright. Enough of 2020 jokes with VT Football. No Mas!!!
Another L is sad. But what is truly sad to me is that I had completely forgotten that we had a game until I got a call from a family member talking about how frustrated they were about it. After 30 years with many, many times 'watching' gamecast (yes...gamecast) in the middle of the night (due to the time differences) during multiple overseas assignments/deployments for 20 years just to keep up with my Hokies...I completely forgot we were playing. Sigh
Yeah, I don't even get upset anymore watching. I use to get so excited with the lead up, throw stuff, yell, and let it ruin my day/weekend if we lost without any consideration for my family.
Now, I may watch a whole game or quarter or two, and then simply say, huh, that was terrible with no emotion. Time to move on to the rest of my weekend.
But on a positive note, I got an XBox360 for my BDay. NCAA Football 2011 is going to be immediately loaded, and I'm going to have a great time playing some vintage Hokie Football.
What ever happened to Fuente's dumbass benching anyone who fumbled for the entire rest of the game? I haven't seen that happen lately. O, maybe it is b/c we/he can't afford to and our 2 deep drop is not great.
Minus Herbert, we are easily 2-6.