Is it finally socially acceptable to say that PJs program is little more than a minor preparatory nuisance for serious football programs?
Can GT do much better?
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When he has the players, his system will give any defense nightmares.
However, it's about that. He needs track stars/football players in most key positions in his offense.
Think having 6 David Wilson/Bo Jackson's in speciality positions. It's just too hard to do.
You could win a land war in Asia with six Bo Jacksons.
Touch man. #34 really is Sam Rogers-esque.
This just doesn't seem offensive...so I got you.
As far as the post - if a team has really good D-tackle play, it can beat CPJ's option. Ole Miss has REALLY good D-tackle play.
Precisely! Notice the difference in GT's rushing output with/without their suspended DLinemen.
Also, Manbearpig.
Appreciate it. I meant touch don't know why it autocorrected. Silly Christmas gadgets!
And this avoid one of the classic blunders...
Now if only we had a Foster with us, we could go up against a Sicilian with death on the line.
It's also not Sam Roger's fault he's the biggest and the strongest; he doesn't even exercise...
Heh. Plus 1 for obscure Princess Bride reference.
I don't think they can do much better. Look at their records against us (0-4, 1-6 if I remember correctly). Similar against their in state rival. Their fan base gets stoked at the beginning of every season when they torch the likes of Savanna St 70-3 or whatever, but conference opponents have started to figure them out. There defense continues to be average, and the offence can't recover when the game gets close. I assume it will have to come down to the fans and school to decide when enough is enough.
CPJ will probably continue to win games and take them to bowls, but much beyond that is unlikely. I personally would like to see him go, assuming they adopt a postbellum style offence.
I'd say it's 50/50 that he gets fired this offseason. They're trending the wrong way and when you play "boring" football AND lose, you're fans aren't going to be happy for long.
Their offense is good enough, but at the same time it's their problem. I don't think their defense gets enough reps against 'typical' offenses to be effective. Or maybe they've just had trouble finding talented defensive linemen. Either way, they lost 3 games this year where they scored 30 or more points.
I am certainly not a Georgia Tech fan, but they gave SEC Ole Miss all they could handle today. If PJ doesn't call the two reverses ( with the last one turning into a safety ) they have a chance to win. This is against a team that had one of the top recruiting classes in the nation last year.
It was also a teaem that was 7-5 during the regular season. SEC or not that's pretty mediocre.
If CPJ was fired, ideally they would get a great recruiter and average coach. Someone like Lane Kiffin who can pull some of the talent away from Clemson, FSU, and the rest of SEC, but still not be good enough win on a consistent basis. Oh, dreams.
yeah but how long will that last? I hate CPJ for obvious reasons, but the good thing about him is that he wins just enough to make it hard for GT to justify firing him, but at the same time we have his number. Bud MF Foster knows how to shut his shi* down!! As long as CPJ wins enough to keep hanging around but we continue to beat them I'm okay with him staying in Hotlanta
Lane Kiffin just emailed.
"Georgia Tech is the job I've been DREAMING of!"
It's no different than any other coach would be at GT. It's all about the talent you can put on the field. When your home state is targeted by most major programs for talent AND you're overshadowed by your in-state rival you don't get the top shelf talent needed to win.
Just for reference, Auburn runs a very similar offense schematically and destroys people doing it. Why? Elite players that fit the system. Their better bet would be to try and convince Orgeron or some other super recruiter that he should come work for them.
I have to disagree. I won't pretend to know to technical terms, but GT runs a wishbone/flexbone triple option attack. Auburn is more of a spread, zone read game. The zone read is the more trendy thing in college football. The major dig with GT is even if they recruit better players the system is just not set up for quick hitting, pass attacks. GT can only run. It's great if it works, but flops if they get behind or need to score fast.
*twiddles thumbs waiting for French to weigh in*
this is my sentiment on SOOOOOOO many topics...
No you are absolutely correct. I guess I should have stated more clearly my opinion:
Auburn and GT run a similar style of offense. They both incorporate a dive/pitch/keep in their run game but outside of that they are very different. The reason Auburn dominates where GT doesn't, IMO, is that they have the offensive line talent to pass block more effectively, talented recievers on the outside and a QB that is a true triple threat.
Is PJ Al Groh in disguise?
So Paul Johnson (Al Groh) fired himself last year?
yes - it was all a muse. its all making sense now...
"Groh'presy" it must be a contagious disease.
The two things I love about GT:
1. It will take them forever to admit that he isn't going to make them any better. This treading water will go on at least 4 more years.
2. Once they do finally cut bait their system will be so barren of legitimate players it will take a real coach another 4 years to rebuild.
From what I understand, he'd already be gone but for his buyout. (despite having a decent year last year) As discontentment builds so does alumni buyout contributions. He will be gone as soon as they can work it.
Problem I see is he defined his system in terms of the players he could get instead of the players he needed to get. So GT 6 years in doesn't have any more ability to draw better offensive players than they did at year 2. I don't think its because they couldn't sell the system. I think its because he is so arrogant he didn't think he had to.
If he had dreamed that the G C G combo should be an NFL track. If he had dreamed his B back could be an NFL track, that his A back could be a slot WR in the NFL and utilized as a receiver at GT... I think he would have had a shot. But Paul Johnson doesn't dream about how he can help others fulfill their dreams. He isn't cut from that cloth.
Instead he overfeeds his best B backs, gives the A backs no track to the NFL. QBs forget about it. And his linemen he gives a scholarship and a "Cutblocking for Dummies" book.
The disrespect he shows by thinking this way is why they want him gone. The arrogance, etc is why they want to kick him in the arse and perhaps upside the head.
Brilliant, brilliant man. Stupid, stupid man. Flawed like all of us. Not long for Ga, IMHO. This year or next.
It is the problem with playing a non-pro style offense. The system will work, but eventually the kids will realize that playing in that kind of system hurts their NFL chances and they decide to go elsewhere. The textbook case is the huge drop off in offensive talent at Florida between Tim Tebow's junior and senior season. Urban Meyer saw the writing on the wall and stepped away when Alabama closed the talent gap and then passed the Gators by. Now he is back where he has the advantage of a scheme that other schools have not seen AND the best talent. Eventually, it will hurt him at Ohio State too, but he doesn't have as much competition.
French again comes to the rescue on his trusty white steed. So to extrapolate on this: GT will only be successful so long as they have a talent/scheme advantage. We are starting to see the limits of this approach. This suggests that "pro-style" is the superior approach (in the long term). I think that's how Frank views the game, and Scot too? Assuming we keep the same staff around for the next few years it will be interesting to watch how the offence dust settles with the new recruits.
So far I've been happy with the (slow but steady) improvement.
I think its clear that Loeffler prefers a pro-package along with a spread attack (which he calls multiple.) Get the athletes to your system, then run both to maximize scoring. Scott must understand the upside as well as the limitations after coaching under Myer at Florida.
I think Frank has changed his tune as well, after missing out on a lot of Va QB talent. You've hit rock bottom when you have to promise not to recruit another competing QB, or sign no QB in a talent-rich state.
Loeffler has changed the recruiting perception in one year, with several of the top HS QBs in the nation at least considering VT this year. In the past it would take nothing short of a kidnapping to get these guys on campus.
Is this comparable to Fosters defense?
With one small difference: Foster is successful.
PJs offenses usually rank pretty high, no? I'd like to see GTs O vs VTs D rankings since PJ has been there.
Fosters scheme has cost him plenty of LB and DE recruits over the years.
I guess rushing yards, yes. I was more going in the directions of "wins responsible for" if that makes sense. I'd say Foster has been responsible for a lot more wins at VT than PJ at GT, in the same time frame.
I would argue that Bud Foster's style of defense does translate well for certain positions, such as DB and DE.
Foster DEs who played DE in the NFL: Engleberger, Tapp. Worilds has had to become an OLB, as Cornell did.
Tapp is a 3-4 OLB in the Redskins' system as well.
Must have been a typo when you wrote DB.
Yes, which is why the Hokies have struggled to land elite defensive tackle and linebacker prospects during most of the 90's. The slanting front and "Free Hitter" design are as different to NFL schemes as the flexbone. Despite the Hokies defensive success, teams that recruit against the Hokies note how few front seven guys have become successful NFL players. Until Worilds this year, most have been role players at best.
damn, beat me to it. +1
felt it was a good time to bring back a classic
I am becoming more and more convinced that Paul Johnson isn't a great head coach.
His scheme all but abandons the pass. This serves Georgia Tech well because they are finely tuned at running the ball, however by design the Bees are a one dimensional team. This does not serve them well in close games where they need to score quickly and are forced to pass. Watching Georgia Tech try to pass the ball down late in a game is hilarious.
Paul Johnson out thinks himself far too often in close games. Think about a close Georgia Tech loss, now recall the dumb Johnson play call(s).
He can't recruit. His record over the last 4 seasons is the definition of mediocre. He won 19 games in his first 2 seasons with Chan Gailey's players. His teams since then haven't been nearly as talented.
ah, a convert. Could not agree more.
now just need Mason and French to come over from the dark side
Its actually pretty amusing. Coming in, PJ was all about selling "Navy, but with bcs caliber players", but they are only battling navy/army/air force for offensive recruits and their defense never be great since they can't simulate passing the ball like every other team does in practice
What do they have to sell down there at GT?!
Come here and play QB and take a pounding all game, and only throw the ball when we're losing and the defence know's its coming; You can do that!
Play offensive line and practice diving at the knees of the defense all game, never running techniques and schemes that translate to the next level; You can do that!
Follow Calvin Johnson and Stephen Hill and practice your WR blocking on almost every play (Hey, at least those guys are playing at the next level.) WR blocking, you can do that!
Blow out Savannah St and Ga Southern, but lose to your in-state rival 10 years in a row; At GT (and LOLUVA) You can do that!
I think alot of PJs of success has come at the advantage of teams having only a week to prepare for GTs offense. As we have seen with their crappy bowl record under PJ (1-5?), some time to prepare makes them look like a mediocre team.
Even former players are starting to lose faith in CPJ
Coach Taylor's available...
Yeah I think once you see this offense often enough you kinda get a feel for it. Plus, Calvin Johnson or Demariyus Thomas aren't walking out the tunnel for them.
On the other hand, if they had a QB that could run their system to a T, I think they could still be successful. It just takes a long time to get into it, and I don't think they have that guy on the roster right now.
Amusingly enough vad lee was supposed to be that guy, and now all the gt fans insist Justin Thomas will be. I'm not sure they'll ever get "that guy"
"That guy" is Tim Tebow, a QB who can punish defenders like a tailback but can also throw a jump pass now and then.
Problem is a guy like tebow isn't going to a school that runs the triple option unless he plays a different position
I think they should put in that white guy #16 and see how he pans out, he's probably the best Qb they have, plus he already has the fumble technique down
Their recruiting is also trending way down.
13th out of 14 ACC teams in 2013 recruiting
11th out of 14 ACC teams currently in 2014.
GT shouldn't be pulling similar recruiting classes to Wake Forest, Duke and Syracuse. They are essentially Navy type players wearing GT uniforms.
I've always felt that if the right coach landed at GT they would be perennial Top 15 program. They are just wasting time keeping CPJ around.
I'd say at this point!
Is there any recognition that it's a little tough to get in to (the other) Tech and eluding to the fact they won't get the best (ahem) "student athletes" they could out there -on top of the other hurdles they have to overcome, mentioned above? I know I know...
Also, note you can catch the end of their games, with the volume on mute and if you see their QB breathing heavily and his hands on his hips, they're losing...
You can also catch the end of their games, by just walking in to their stadium and grabbing a seat in the 3rd or 4th row at the 50yd line... (bah-DUM-dum!)