I got into an argument with my dad a few weeks ago when discussing the inbounds play that Villanova used to draw a foul against VT in the final seconds of regulation. For those of you that don't remember:
I argued that in order for that to be a foul on the defense, you would have to evaluate the size of the players, force, and intent on every single screen that is set in the game. Setting a good screen often requires contact - if the defensive player is running full speed then a big collision will occur. You see this a lot with screens in the backcourt and usually defending point guards get wrecked by centers that are setting screens.
My dad cited a few examples of where coaches have used this tactic in the past and got the call. He said that Dean Smith used this play in the final minutes of a championship game or final 4 game way back in the 70s and did not get the call and potentially cost UNC the game (he couldn't remember exactly which game).
Well, as usual, I was correct and my dad was wrong. Per the NCAA rule book Sec 21, Article 5:
A player who is screened outside his visual field may make inadvertent
contact with the screener. Such contact shall be incidental, provided that the
screener is not displaced when he has the ball.
In this case, the screener did not have the ball so contact should be deemed incidental.
Also, rule 4-35 in Section 2 states:
A foul shall be called when: ..... 6. The screener sets a "blind" screen (outside the visual field) on a moving defender and doesn't allow ample time to stop or change directions; usually one to two strides.
This part could be debated but I don't think Mutts had one or two strides after the Nova player was set.
Please let me know if you disagree with me but I am tired to hearing announcers say "They got the call right" and then don't take the time to look up the rules. Sick of the Duke's and Nova's getting the benefit of the doubt in these rare instances. Refs should be auditing their work after they make controversial calls that affect the outcome of games so that teams in the future don't get screwed.
Comments
Good legwork. Even without the specific rules you mention, that play seems to be a loophole and is just wrong.
The other piece to this play that should have actually led to Mutts going to the line for a blocking foul since the Hokies were in the bonus was that the Villanova player set the screen inside the perimeter of the cylinder. If he planted outside, its debatable how you call it but the cylinder works both ways and Mutts should have been at the line to absolutely ice the game. That rule wasnt around back in the 70's from your dad's frame of reference.
I do appreciate you took the time to research it though.
Interesting about the cylinder rule. Seems like that may just be an oversight with the way the rule was written but either way, it's the letter of the law.
Been trying to figure out what game he is talking about. He can't remember which game but his memory is sharp enough to recall that the UNC player was set for multiple seconds lol.
I am not certain and not old enough to have seen it but I think it was the 1972 semifinal against Florida State, who would go on to lose against arguably the greatest team ever assembled, the 30-0 UCLA Bruins under legend John Wooden. That team had Bill Walton, supported by All-Americans Henry Bibby and Keith Wilkes.
Thanks! Will see if that jogs his memory.
Rules like this are why it's almost impossible to compare teams from different era's. Who would win the 60s Lakers or the 2019 Lakers? Well if you play by 1960s rules then the 2019 Lakers would get called for palming the ball and carrying. If you used the 2019 rule book then the 60s Lakers would foul out in 5 minutes for hip checking and basic clotheslining players, as was fashionable at the time.
Not really on topic; but another foul that is frequently called really irks me. If a defender goes straight to contest a shot, he should be allowed room to come straight down. I hate it when a shooter leans into a defender to get a foul called. If anything, it should be a charge.
This is a fight you won't often win, not that I don't disagree with you. It's like pass interference in football. Barring something aggregious it's going to be on the defender 9 times out of 10.
You may be right that refs won't make the right call. Still......insert Morgan Freeman "he's right, ya know".
If we made this a foul then James Harden would foul out of every first quarter and the NBA cant have that.
Agree. Should be an offensive foul.
I cite this all the time as my primary reason for not enjoying basketball as much as I once did. I grew up in NC a huge UNC fan and ACC basketball fan in general. But the rules that allow the offensive player to create the contact and then calling a foul on the defender makes the game nearly unwatchable for me. I know it's a bit of old man "get off my lawn" mentality, but it is what it is...
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we got the win, but I'm pretty sure Nova got a foul shot stolen from them like right before that if I remember correctly. It was treated like they missed the front end of a 1-1 but I'm pretty sure they should've gotten 2 shots. The refs were far from perfect.
Correct. Diarra had VT foul number 10 of the half with 10 seconds left in the game and the refs only gave a one and one free throw. He missed the first one which we rebounded and then scored.
Play-by-Play from ESPN. I counted this as the number 10 VT foul in the second half.
Didn't even think to check the play by play. I was sad when I wanted to check and remembered that HokieTapes had not survived youtube. Thanks for checking my work for me.
Yeah we did get that break as well. I appreciate you putting this together as I was insistent this wasn't a foul on VT and most including the announcers just accepted it - leading to me losing it and my wife not wanting to hang out with me - haha.
A player who is screened outside his visual field may make inadvertent
contact with the screener. Such contact shall be incidental, provided that the
screener is not displaced when he has the ball.
Maybe I'm just brain-farting...but when does a screener ever have the ball?
Pick and roll pass would be the only situation. Guard at top of key passes to a big and then uses the big to gain space from the defender...defender runs into big and causes him to move.
Hmmm, I hadn't considered that.
But it pretty much makes all other blind contact okay...