Now that the conference championships have concluded, who do you think WILL get the top 4 spots and who do you think SHOULD get the top 4 spots? For me it would look something like:
WILL:
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Notre Dame
SHOULD:
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Texas A&M.
Alabama and Clemson are no brainer locks at 1 & 2. Ohio State as much as I feel they don't deserve to be in because of how few games they played, I just don't see another team that's any better in the country outside of Bama and Clemson. Notre Dame in my mind doesn't belong after being curb stomped today. That program is historically overrated and their top win came against Clemson without the best player in college football. Texas A&M in my mind has played a harder schedule and was beat into submission by only Alabama, as has everyone else. The one school I could be talked into would be Florida despite the 3 losses given two of them came to teams in the CFBP. But that would be assuming OSU is left out which I don't see happening. Not to mention it's not a great look having 3 SEC schools represented.
Comments
Top 3 send pretty solid, number 4 is where it gets dicey.
Whoops, hit submit early. I hope Tamu gets in over ND.
I know nd would be more beneficial for the acc, but I hate nd.
Ohio state barely beat northwestern, I would think Bama, Clemson, Texas A&M and Notre Dame would be appropriate though like most of the last few years Clemson and Bama are the best two teams and everyone else is way below
I don't disagree with you, but I feel like there would be riots if the playoff was just two conferences. If Florida had won it might have people talking about 3 SEC teams and Clemson.
I understand, but then maybe the Big 10 should have played more games and started when all the other conferences did. The Pac12 has no reason to be upset. The Big 12's 2 best teams have at least 2 losses. That leaves, in my mind, Alabama, Clemson, ND and Texas A&M. Those 3 teams only have a loss against other playoff teams. If Ohio State had played at LEAST 3 more games to see if they could win them all, then we can talk about letting them in. Texas A&M may have the weakest argument, but beat Florida and Auburn and only lost to Alabama. Clemson and ND each beat the other and had at least one other good win. I just don't think Ohio State should be rewarded for not having the opportunity to lose 3 more times.
I don't like how OSU's season went. I think we can just have a BCS championship game this year with Alabama and Clemson.
Big10 was down this year, especially the East. I know the committee is not supposed to hold the short season against the Big10, but they are only 2-0 against ranked school (#11 Indiana, #14 Northwestern).
Texas A&M has a very good win against Florida, but was rolled by the Tide.
Bama, Klempson, ND, aTm is how I would roll, with a rematch - again for the ship.
Would love to see Cincy get a shot since we know what would happen with A and M vs Bama or ND vs Clemson but the playoff committee is cowards and it will just go to the national brands.
Bama vs OSU
Clemson vs ND
We all know its the best way. /s
WANT:
4. COASTAL CAROLINA, YOU COWARDS!
If ever there's a year to throw a bone to the G5, this is it. And it wouldn't even really be throwing them a bone. It's not like strength of schedule is a good metric to use this year. They can't hide behind "G5 team didn't really play anyone" excuse when you have two P5 conferences who literally didn't play anyone.
If the argument between TAMU and ND is that they both suffered big defeats, I think you have to give ND the benefit since they did beat Clemson once.
I really wish this was the year where they just cancelled all other bowl games and expanded the playoffs to 8. There is such a clear top 8 with the only question really being whether OK or Cincy gets the 6 seed.
#1 Alabama vs #8 Coastal Carolina
#2 Clemson vs #7 Oklahoma
#3 Ohio State vs #6 Cincinnati
#4 Notre Dame vs #5 Texas A&M
I was just thinking that the playoffs needs to be 8 teams. And you're right, this year really seems like a good year for it. Do you put a 2 loss Oklahoma as a higher seed than an undefeated Coastal Carolina though?
These matchups look awesome. Go to eight already.
I feel like ND is more deserving than TAMU because they have a victory over Clemson in addition to their loss.
I also think Cincinatti should get in over OSU bc they have played a similar strength if schedule, but Cincinnati played 50% more games and remained undefeated.
I would love to see Alabama, Clemson, Cincinnati, Coastal Carolina. But because of $EC and bias involved I think you will get Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Texas A&M
I don't know how they could take A&M over ND. ND did beat Clemson once (granted without Trevor Lawrence), and only lost to them, so their resume seems better with the additional win over Carolina.
Honestly, I have the exact same thing as the OP for think and should. Will add what I would like to see though.
WILL:
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Notre Dame
SHOULD:
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Texas A&M.
WOULD LIKE :
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Cincy - they deserve a shot. If they get crushed, fine, they get crushed. I do think Notre Dame and A&M are better, but they both had their chances.
Is ND better than Cincy? Yeah, probably. But I think ND gets absolutely blasted by Alabama if they go in 1&4.
Alabama
Clemson
Ohio state
Cincinnati
But I do think ND makes it in #4 and I'm hoping for a Clemson ND title game.
I'll be shocked if the committee has the balls to exclude OSU.
At this point all I care about is Clemson not winning a national championship. So go Bucks and Roll Tide.
Here are the teams I think have any sort of shot, largely based on the past criteria of no teams with more than 1 loss:
Alabama - 11-0
Coastal Carolina - 11-0
Clemson - 10-1
Notre Dame - 10-1
Cincinnati - 9-0
Texas A&M - 8-1
Ohio State - 6-0
Since much of the debate in on Ohio State's low game total, I drew a cutoff line at 6 wins, which eliminated the Pac-12. Most of the G5 teams that could fall into the 0 or 1 win range either have a direct loss to Coastal or Cincy, or obviously don't have a strong enough schedule. (Not being our usual bias against Liberty, but we were literally the best team that they beat. NC State was the only team they played that ended with a winning record.)
In most cases, I would eliminate ND and Texas A&M due to blow out losses to the top two teams. But, ND at least has a win over Clemson. So I'd rank ND over aTm. In my mind, the only way Texas A&M should get in is if the four teams are Alabama, Clemson, ND, and aTm in that order.
If it came down to Cincy or Coastal, I'd lean more towards Coastal. That's also helped by the "anywhere anytime" attitude of the BYU game that was schedule and played in under 2 days.
Dare I say, I'd like to see Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Coastal Carolina?
Please put Notre Dame in so they can get bitch slapped on national TV one more time..
Will:
1. Bama
2. Clemson
3. Ohio State
4. Notre Dame
Should:
1. Bama
2. Clemson
3. Coastal
4. Cincy
First four out:
5. Ohio State
6. Notre Dame
7. Indiana
8. San Jose State
Indiana over A&M is indefensible.
This is pretty much a joke because I hate A&M and think they're a fraud, but it's not like it isn't close. Indiana actually played a close game with OSU, and besides UF, has better wins and an overall harder schedule than A&M.
The UF win is good, but losing by 28 to a playoff team is enough to eliminate any team imo. They had their chance and they lost decisively. It was proven on the field. At least with Notre Dame you can kind of argue they already beat Clemson, and can probably compete with other playoff teams, although admittedly it's a pretty weak argument.
I do hope Cincy or IU gets a shot at A&M in the NY6, I think they would definitely have a good chance of winning.
Fraud is a strong word to describe this A&M team. 8-1, beat a really good Florida team with an insane offense and elite QB, took care of business everywhere else. Very talented team on both sides of the ball, but they play a less flashy brand of football. More ball control and tough defense. They are similar in profile to a mid 2000's VT team in a lot of ways.
I kind of hate playing the schedule comparison card this year because it's everything was so sideways, but I'm having a hard time following this argument.
The only team Indiana played with a winning record was Ohio State. The best team they beat was a 4-5 PSU.
Texas A&M has the Florida win, plus wins over 6-4 Auburn and 5-5 LSU.
Damn didn't realize those Big Ten teams had such horrible records. 3-3 Wisconsin is probably IU's best win. It's harder to judge this year for sure. I just wish all of these teams could play each other across conferences so we could actually know for a fact
Who I think will get in:
Alabama✅
Clemson✅
OSU❓
ND❌
I do not believe that Texas A&M and ND deserve a spot based on how badly they lost to Alabama and Clemson respectively. That shows they cannot compete. I would rather see undefeated Cincy in there. Not sure what to think about OSU.
OP nailed it. The problem is that outside of ND fans, there isn't a person in the country that doesn't think Clemson would have whipped ND the first time with Trevor Lawrence, so letting ND in means their reputation would get the first two loss winner into the playoffs. The problem for the committee then is that having seen Clemson just kick ND to the curb brutally, their fourth pick will get the same thrashing or worse from Alabama, reflecting poorly on their selection.
Pretty much a no win situation for the committee, but hey, it's a no win situation for whoever the fourth pick is too. So say hello to the usual Clemson-Alabama rerun.
Trevor Lawrence doesn't play defense. Notre Dame scored 47 points in round 1 and 10 in round 2; that was the difference.
I'm definitely not a ND fan. There are plenty of people (I would say the majority) that don't think Clemson would have whipped ND with Trevor Lawrence in the first matchup. Heck, DJU had like 500+ yards in the first matchup and they still lost.
Clemson was also missing their senior middle linebacker, James Slalski, for the first Notre Dame game. So Clemson was short its primary offensive player and defensive player for the first ND game.
It don't matter, Bama gonna curb stomp both games. No other team is good enough to win it all this year.
Alabama
Clemson
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Top four conference champs only. Anything else is pandering based on name or conference recognition.
Ohio State does not deserve to get in. There are too many other legitimate options to put in a five win team that got their sixth win in an uninspiring championship game. They may be good, but the conference made their bed.
Clemson, Bama, ND, TBD (won't complain about anybody but OSU)
And it's official:
Alabama/Notre Dame at Jerry World
Clemson/OSU in Sugar Bowl.
I want to downvote this, but you're just the messenger.
Texas A&M at 5, Oklahoma at 6.
Locations were determined based on capacity allowances. Dallas will allow 16,000 fans, New Orleans only allowing 3,000. Committee gave the #1 seed the larger capacity.
I just want ND left out so that UNC gets excluded from the NY6
Probably an unpopular opinion, but they got the top 4 right for sure.
Notre Dame is a 1-loss team that went 1-1 against Clemson.
Texas A&M is good, but doesn't have a win like ND has.
Cincinnati shouldn't get in without a single great win. Who's their best win? Tulsa on a game-winning FG? If the committee were to start letting teams like Cincinnati in, then every program in the country should cancel every tough non-conference game they have and make their schedule as easy as possible.
I disagree that they don't have a comparable top win. A&M beat a full strength Florida team that I believe was better on the day than the heavily injured Clemson team ND beat. After that I think ND has the next best win over UNC. A&M has wins over Auburn and LSU but by themselves neither as impressive as UNC.
What about Coastal Carolina? They have a statement win over BYU, that one could reasonably argue is better than an OSU win.
EDIT: Looking at SP+, Cincinnati is the 5th best team, with the 18th best offense and 2nd best defense. Coastal Carolina, despite being the 20th best team, has a win over the 7th best team (BYU). In fact, Coastal Carolina's win over BYU is the 2nd best win of any conference champion: Alabama's win over UF is the best win of any conference champion. Next is CC's win over BYU, followed by Clemson's win over ND.
And a good win at a Louisiana team that was otherwise undefeated and whipped the Big 12 runner up Iowa State
I would have loved to have seen Coastal Carolina reschedule to play Cincy like they did with BYU. Cincy had a close one with Tulsa but if they could have knocked off Coastal (or vice versa) then the last remaining G5 undefeated team might have had a better argument. Still probably wouldn't have made it in but meh, it would have been fun to see.
I think the G5 conferences should band together to form a single league with 3 teirs, and practice promotion/relegation. It would easily become the most interesting P5 conference, with a similar revenue to every other conference (albeit split across many more teams)
I don't mind saying it... It's all a big sham.
ND lost their play-in game yesterday. aTM got blown out by a playoff team early in the season. anOSU only played 6 freaking games. I don't care what the teams "look like" or whose "playing their best ball right now."
This is why it's pointless for anyone outside of 6-8 schools to even think about the playoff. Only the $$ count here.
And I hadn't read far enough down to see they'd already picked teams, so I guess ignore my comments. I still think Ohio State getting in over Coastal Carolina is BS. They beat an otherwise undefeated BYU team. I think if CC had played Louisiana instead of that game getting canceled, that may have put them in.
(Narrator: No, they wouldn't.)
Exactly it's not about skill, wins-losses, or strength of schedule.
It's about branding and $$$$$$$
I hope they all lose.
Yawn
Can't wait until we're here at this point in 2021 and the top teams are Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State again.
The top 5-6 recruiting teams seem to be the center of these discussions every year. Go figure.
I'm surprised to see a lot of my fellow Hokies agree anOSU belong in the playoffs. In my opinion they shouldn't be rewarded for playing half a season in an overrated Conference. I have to admit Facebook comments have made me despise anOSU and its fans especially on the Fox College Football page.
If you're talking about the Hokies here, I'm seeing indifference at best to OSU. No one was really arguing for their inclusion but accepted the likely reality.
not what I wanted but its what ESPN wants
Whatever, Notre Dame getting in means an extra 400k to Virginia Tech to not use for a Fuente buyout.
^^^POTD 🤣
If we still used the BCS rankings, then we'd still have the same final 4. The rest of the NY6 would look different.
And for fun, what the other NY6 bowls would have looked like with these rankings.
Orange Bowl - #14 UNC vs. #5 Texas A&M
Then, the Peach, Cotton, and Fiesta would pick from these teams:
Highest ranked G5 champ - #6 Cincy
Big 12 champ displaced from Sugar Bowl - #8 Oklahoma
Pac-12 champ displaced from Rose Bowl - #24 Oregon
Three at large: #7 Indiana, #9 Georgia, #10 Florida
To keep it short, the only difference (other than some of the numbers) with a hypothetical BCS NY6 would have been Indiana instead of Iowa State.
It's almost like the playoff committee takes the computers into consideration.
Accurate...
In all honesty, ever since the inception of the CFP, the top 4 teams in the CFP every year would have been identically the same as if they were chosen by the BCS.
The playoff hasn't really changed anything, it's just smoke and mirrors. Add at least 4 more teams and we are bound to have more dysfunction take place.
At the end of the BCS, the issue wasn't with the formula or rankings, the issue was with the number teams able to compete for the championship. I never understood why we needed a committee for a 4 team tournament. If they ever expand, though, they should include some sort of auto bids that don't require a committee.
It would be interesting to go back to the original BCS formula to see if that would have been true.
At least ND will be bent over in a national public humiliation sponsored by BAMA. Tired of their rent-a-conference nonsense. Join or don't.
Outside of the Chanticleers getting screwed out of the NY6 for... 3 loss Iowa State... these games look pretty interesting.
Nuke the CFP. It's a joke. If FCS can do a tourney there's no reason FBS can't. I won't hear the $$$ reason because you can still have the 500 bullshit bowls outside of the tourney so the corporate people get their money and you can treat the tourney games like bowls as well.
There's no reason that ND and anOSU deserve to be in over Cincy and CC. If teams like these can go undefeated every year, do everything they possibly can within their control correctly, and not have even so much as a whiff of a chance to play for the National Championship then what the fuck are we even doing here?
Edit: I typed A&M. Meant anOSU. Different team, my argument doesn't change.
And this is the only reason the "Bluechip Ratio" works.
ND got blown out when playing Clemson full strength.
Even if a UCF/Cincy/Memphis/Coastal/Houston
Get blown out - So what the team that's "more" deserving is getting blown out right now.
There's no reason it shouldn't be at the very minimum 6 team with a play-in, and top two get a bi
Made me log in just to upvote. 100% this. i remember one of the arguments in favor of the playoff was these G5 teams would actually have a shot to make it in and now its plan to see that was just BS. Just go to a full turney like FCS. Only problem with that is they would still find ways to exclude G5 teams i mean CC final ranking is what 11?
Coastal is 12, which should be high enough for an NY6 bowl, except that contractual obligations pulled in #13 UNC (ACC champ replacement for Orange Bowl) and #25 Oregon (Pac-12 champ). Actually, #11 would be more insulting, as that would literally be the first team out of the NY6.
I think this article covers most of the absurdly long post i originally typed up.
https://www-theringer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.theringer.com/platf...
I can't get excited about the CFP, it's the same two teams (Clemson, Bama) + 2 other blue bloods. Things won't get interesting to me unless they make an 8 team tournament which has to include a G5 team if they're undefeated
It's only going to allow a few more blue bloods to sneak in by going to 8. May be unpopular, but I think the playoff has destroyed college football. The goal used to be win your conference and go to your conference's tie in bowl game. If you happened to be #1 or #2, then you got a chance to call yourself national champions. But the real, consistent goal was winning the conference and a big time bowl bid (Orange, Sugar, Rose, Fiesta, etc). Now the goal is playoff or bust. It has made the entire objective of the season about competing for the national championship. If you expand the playoff, you have to have auto bids for conference champions, but the people who want the sexiest teams on paper and brands will never let that happen.
The current setup is the worst hybrid possible of a playoff and the downside of the bowl system. A playoff with no objective criteria to making it, and usually politics and tv ratings will give the blue blood programs a leg up in making it.
Have to sing the song.....
If you don't sing the song, did you have a childhood? Are you even human?
Guessing this was
beforeafter my day (too old, not too young). What is this song?It's from Sesame Street, and it's an absolute ear worm...
I don't think I have ever heard this in my life. Which has me questioning, DID I have a childhood?
... see?
Thanks. Don't recall seeing that before. Guessing it was after I had outgrown Sesame Street but before my daughter arrived. Although neither one of us was that into the show, so maybe it did overlap one of us.
Joey Galloway was the only person to buck the choices. As he pointed out, which we've all known but this only helps make it more evident is that if you are not in a Power 5 you are not getting into the Playoff. You don't play a hard enough schedule you won't have enough marquee wins. I hope the other conferences bring this up and it forces an expansion. Just make some of the other NY6 games playoff games. It's not hard to do.
EDIT: all the others were so glad to see this matchup and now the storyline is going to be the clemson OSU rematch
Well football season is officially over...glad we got as many games as we did.
The CFP is a joke...only marquee names allowed!
I would argue that expanding the playoff just isn't going to make anything better.
Look, no one wants to say it, but college football, for as great as it is, just really isn't that competitive at the top right now. The 1-seed is consistently a huge favorite over the 4-seed. And nobody who knows college football really thinks that Cincy would have a shot against Alabama or Clemson. Heck, they could barely get by TULSA in their biggest game of the year. Even with only 4 teams, there is a blowout in the playoff every year.
I wish CFB was more competitive at the top, but until it is, 4 teams is the right way to do it.
I think you're right but that is how Cinderella stories happen. Right now, it is impossible. And when whole conferences literally have no path to a championship, something is wrong.
Nobody is beating full strength Clemson or Alabama, those two teams are just in another league.
But, I think I'd put money on Cincinnati vs Notre Dame, maybe not Georgia but I guess we will see how that plays out
Really frustrated with the Ohio St. getting in. I think there's no question that 'bama, Clemson, and ND belong. Ohio St? They got in on name recognition alone. They did'nt play anyone until the conference championship game, and they looked ugly for 3 quarters to a team that lost to Michigan St.
aTm and Cincy have a major argument with how things worked out.
I don't like it either. The precedent has been strength of schedule matters. But apparently it only matters when we want to discredit an undefeated G5 team.
Should be 5 P5 conference champs, 1 guaranteed G5, and 2 at-large bids. Nothing else is worth the attention it seems to get -- all a blue blood cash grab spectacle.
Maybe I'm just old and bitter, though.
Or just give every conference champ a seat and either have:
- 12 team playoff, with two wildcards determined by a BCS-like formula, and 1st round bye for the top 2 seeds, or
- 16 team playoff, 6 wildcards
Seeding determined by a committee much like they do for the NCAABBT.
Bottom line - win your conference and you have a shot. Independent schools - better have a damn good resume.
I like that, and it makes more sense. My main concern (which I suppose is irrelevant with hypothetical discussion lol) is a larger field drags out the season more. Could be good if paired with shortening the regular season and getting rid of cupcake games, but I'm sure somebody somewhere would cry about a lack of profit or something.
I've never been sold on the argument that more games is a problem. I mean, to some extent, I understand it in a vacuum. But . . .
In FBS, if a conference champ wins the natty, they play 15 games. (12 regular + conference title + 2 CFP)
In FCS, if a team that doesn't get a bye wins the natty, they play 16 games (11 regular + 5 rounds of playoffs). If any of the conferences have a title game, those teams could play 17 games.
Any other team than ND gets blown out by clemson last night and they're not in the CFP.
Love seeing ESPN complaining it's getting boring when their programming is the literal reason its becoming so fucking bland. 3 hour show to reveal something everyone already knew and then they won't even give a crap about the other bowl games and instead constantly promote the bland CFP over every game and interview Ian book for half of every bowl game instead.
I'd love for any reasoning other than money that Cincinnati didn't get in over ND.
In the defense of the committee - cincy's schedule was awful, even this year. ND didn't look good last night, but for once I don't doubt their inclusion in the playoffs/BCS... And I'm still pissed they got the Fiesta Bowl invite in 2001 over us, and super glad Oregon St blew their doors off that game.
only 1 team has a great offense and defense. clemson wins easily, again.
i don't get all worked up over the 3 and 4 seeds. they don't matter. they're getting blown out every year by clemson and alabama anyways. i would like to see someone like coastal or cincinnati get a chance...but i know that's not happening, so i don't spend any time worrying about it or getting upset about it.
You know whats even more screwed up is CC not even getting a decent bowl game as another F U. Cincinatti atleast got the peach bowl but the committee is a joke and shows what happens all season really doesnt matter if youre not a true blue blood.
I just hope everyone has fun.
Dabo Sweeny ranked anOSU #11 on his final coaches ballot
LINK
Here is CJF's final ballot.
Justin Fuente, Virginia Tech
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Notre Dame
4. Ohio State
5. Cincinnati
6. Texas A&M
7. Indiana
8. Oklahoma
9. Coastal Carolina
10. Iowa State
11. Brigham Young
12. Georgia
13. Florida
14. Iowa
15. Northwestern
16. Louisiana-Lafayette
17. North Carolina
18. Southern California
19. Army
20. Miami (Fla.)
21. San Jose State
22. North Carolina State
23. Liberty
24. Buffalo
25. Tulsa
I'd put Ohio State below Cinci and A&M but otherwise I like this.
Not shocking, every ACC coach had ND in the top 4, trying to ensure everyone gets 400k.
Why wouldnt they be though. They lost to a team they have also beat, a team ranked 2 in the nation. It is like having only a half loss on their resume. I have a bigger problem with OSU. Six games, come on. That is an incomplete grade and anything you can say different is based on reputation alone.
I've got no problem with ND making it at 4. And I hate Notre Dame.
The SEC homers want to bark about aTm getting in because The Irish got blasted by Clemson. They conveniently ignore that Notre Dame at least beat Clemson before.
If the good guys were in the same spot, running undefeated in the regular season and including a win over Clemson, and then lost to them in the CG, you better believe I would be yelling loudly for them to be in. I'll give ND the same courtesy
Someone help me out here... not saying I supported two SEC teams in the playoffs, but it's dang funny.
https://youtu.be/wuFeqg86YYE
This entire channel is hilarious. I've been a subscriber for a while, they are both funny and get their videos turned around real quick after a weekend of ball.
Yeah I only recently started watching them, but they're great. This one is classic, the subtitles are hilarious and Florida throwing the shoe is so good.
ESPN: 'coach kelly, what do you think about the 19.5 point spread'
Brian Kelly: 'you know, I really don't look at those spreads'
Mrs. Smlltwnsthrnlwyr: 'he doesn't look at weather forecasts, either'.
#briankellykilledaguy
Idk, another boring group that I won't watch.
A lot of people think it's crazy that SEC teams get the benefit of the doubt over a team like Cincinnati. But then I see Tulsa, Cincy's best opponent this year, get beat by a 3-7 SEC team, and I think that it's for the best that we give the playoff spots to teams that have to play the best of the best all year.
The best opponent they had until Georgia, who they are currently up 2 scores on
And sure, they deserve a lot of credit for going toe to toe against the 4th or 5th best SEC team. I'm just saying that I'm glad that the playoff committee isn't considering them for the playoff against teams that have tougher games every week.
I think that is an unfair judgement to make off of one game. As you can see today, Cincinnati deserved their place at the table and can play with the big boys of the SEC or anyone else.
I also wonder how far behind the AAC is from the ACC, PAC12, and BIG 12. Is what CIncinnati did all that easier than what Clemson has been doing to a weak ACC?
cincy scores first! after oklahoma thrashed florida im wondering how good aTm and uga actually are. cincy and unc have their work cut out.
I want Cincinnati's coach....
Yeah watching this game makes me sad that we couldn't poach their HC or DC.
Post game update: Oof, that was some brutal clock management by Cincinnati there at the end
chikfila bowl was a really good game
Notre Dame might get butchered worse than the last time they played Bama (or Clemson)
Soooo did anyone see the BAMA and Notre Dame match up and think the outcome would ACTUALLY be something different than this? That program has and has always had zero business being near a CFB Playoff
Yea I think everyone had this game turning out like this.
But tbh I'm tired of hearing people say that Notre Dame shouldn't have been here this year or shouldn't have been in the championship back in 2012. They earned it both years as much or more than anyone else but it seems that people love coming out of the woodwork when they lose to wag their fingers about how they lose to the best teams in the country.
Just like everyone else! Everyone loses to Clemson and Alabama! You might be able to make the argument that some other team should have been the fourth seed this year but I'd have bet this game would have turned out this way if Alabama had been matched up against anyone not named Clemson.
This.
After watching this bowl season to this point the only team playing well enough to compete with Bama or Clemson might actually have been Oklahoma.
But they lost their chances. I don't like Notre Dame but else should have really been there?
It's a recurring thing with Notre Dame and it has been for the better part of 20 years. Since 2000 they've lost all 7 NY6/BCS games they've played in and not a single one of those was a close game. Oregon State, OSU, Clemson, LSU, and Alabama. I created this post prior to the playoff teams even being decided so I wouldn't exactly say I'm coming out of the woodwork wagging fingers now that they lost. They didn't deserve to be there in the first place and the result continues to show that year after year
I felt the same way after Ohio state lost two national championship game in a row in the mid 2000s. Why let them back in? They always lose!
But it's a ridiculous argument. Can't judge on prior years. Have to deal with what each team did this year.
Notre Dame might get overseeded because of who they are but it's incredibly rare that they or anyone else gets handed a game they weren't qualified for.
The 2001 Feista bowl
It's incredibly rare for anyone else. For ND, it's been known to happen once in a while. IIRC you are something of a Notre Dame sympathizer though, so I don't hold this take against you too much
Thanks. I think.
The programs I think of when I think of schools that get opportunities handed to them again and again starts with Ohio State and includes Michigan, probably Oklahoma, maybe Texas and Southern Cal but they haven't been good in a while. All the Florida schools get a lot of hype when they're good.
Oklahoma I can see since they are 5-9 in BCS/playoff/ny6 games since 1998 and they won their first 2. So their record in the last 17 years is 3-9.
Texas had to beg the polls to let them into a BCS bowl, not even the title. Sure people want Texas to be good because its good for football (they have a large fan base).
Notre Dame on the other hand started it's bowl losing streak record with the Fiesta Bowl loss to #4 Colorado, Notre Dame was 6-4-1 that season (not including the bowl game). The very next season they were in the Orange Bowl with a 9-2 record with a loss to an unranked Northwestern. In 1998, they went to the gator bowl instead of VT or Miami. The 2000 season had them get selected as a 9 win team to go to the Fiesta bowl when VT had 10 wins and only loss was to Miami, also a 1 loss team to Washington, another 1 loss team. In 2002, ND went to the Gator bowl with 9 wins while VT and WVU had 9 wins too. They made the 2006 Fiesta Bowl with 9 wins, while VT had 10 (other conferences had better teams but already sent 2 to the BCS bowls). Though ND was ranked above a lot of teams with better records. ND beat one P5(6) team that season which was a 7-5 Michigan (Nvay was 8-4 for the only other team they beat with a winning record). So the 2006 season is really the only one in that losing streak where they went to a big name bowl and I don't really have any complaints. They had good losses to 11 win teams and good wins 9+ win teams. They got blown out of that bowl game though.
The next time they were in a major bowl game was 2012 (2013 BCS title game). They were undefeated, but no one thought ND had a chance, but I am not sure who did that season. Maybe OK State if the plane didn't crash and they didn't have one terrible game that week, but I think Bama would have beaten them soundly too.
Now back to 2015 where they did beat two P5 teams with winning records (8 win USC and Pitt), to only get trounced in the Fiesta Bowl. TCU had a better record and didn't get to a NY6 bowl.
Since the Bowl Alliance was started, ND has not won a major bowl game. Many times getting to those bowls ahead of other, more deserving teams. Their average score major bowl games is 14.5 ppg. They allows 36.75 ppg.
Notre Dame has a large fan base that "benefits" college football, they got sweet heart deals in the BCS era to get into BCS games they shouldn't have been in because of money. They have done terrible in those games and only once (1996 Orange bowl) been within 1 score. Most of the other teams have to win their conference to get into the playoff, or good BCS games. ND had to get 9 wins to get a BCS game, and this was their only shot at a conference title.
EDIT: For the younger crowd, the Bowl Alliance was what preceded the BCS, as the Rose Bowl wanted no part because of tradition.
pretty much all of this. And Horse, you're welcome
This is a good list. The only one I see here that seems egregious is that fiesta bowl. It's not uncommon for a team to get into a bowl with one fewer win than other teams that might just about as deserving.
I still disagree that past performance should dictate future decisions or that Notre Dame wasn't a legit choice for this year's playoff but good research in that post.
I agree that the past shouldn't dictate the future. If that is the case then VT should never go to the CFB Playoff because of our record against top 5 teams.
The thing that doesn't really come through is how weak NDs schedule is most years they went to those bowls. And its one thing to say a 12-0 team beat everyone on their schedule vs a 9-3 team that only beat a 7-5 P5 school and a bunch of losers.
Now take a team that played a bunch of cupcakes and let them in a better BE or ACC bowl than BE or ACC teams, a lot of people are going to be upset, because we can't play a bunch of cupcakes.
Notre Dame had a resume this year that would probably look just like ours if and when we make a playoff. And, when we get there, we will probably get curb stomped by Alabama or similar. It is what it is. Notre Dame is not getting special treatment.
If we had Notre Dame's schedule and results this year, we would have been screaming from the mountaintop that we should be in the playoff.
You said it best, that's a season that VT would HAVE to have to get playoff consideration. And even then we might need to beat a Clemson twice. So maybe the Irish got a little love there, but really not much special treatment.
I dont think VT gets in with NDs schedule/record. The only hope is that there really isn't a 5th team. There was a clear cut 4 this year. But there wouldn't be a clear cut 4 with VT was a 1 loss.
Which is why I said we would likely have to beat Clemson twice in that scenario
The fix is in on the 2nd game. Skalsky getting ejected for that tackle on Fields was bullshit. Guess they want to change it up from Bama/Clemson to Bama/Bitches.
It was the correct call tho...
The rule is messed up if that's the right call.
If he tackles him higher, Fields has a head injury, and if we he goes lower Fields would have had a Tom Brady esque knee injury. Players shouldn't be ejected for hitting people in the midsection. Fifteen yard penalty sure, but it is dumb that he's out of the game.
It literally has nothing to do with where you hit the player (they said that on the broadcast too). When a runner is out of the pocket, you can not tackle using the top of your helmet. It is a penalty (targeting) to do so, regardless of the impact point.
Yes, we all know that... Which is why the first line says...
"The rule is messed up if that's the right call."
Guess I got confused by the "if thats the right call" because it is, and then the talk about where players should be allowed to hit, which has nothing to do with the penalty that was called.
That's understandable. I guess my original understanding of the targeting rule was it was created for the safety of the "defenseless" player. Clearly, that is not what it has evolved too.
The only person in danger with how the Tackler's head was positioned when hitting someone in the midsection was the tackler himself.
Obviously if he tackled him higher in that position, Field's head would've been at risk. The LBer could've had the exact same lowered head position at Field's legs and not made any forcible contact with the crown of his helmet, since it is a smaller target, but Fields could've had a much worse injury than bruised/broken ribs.
Maybe give him a fifteen yard penalty for lowering his head, but the midsection is usually the "safest" place to be hit and should not be a cause for ejection in my opinion.
I won't pretend to have been paying close attention, but I feel like I remember that the stated intent was to protect both sides.
At least, I remember neck injuries to the defender were frequently mentioned when the rule was first introduced.
(Which has nothing to do with how the rule is enforced, or impacts the game.)
It is BS. Count the number of times a defensive back hits the lower body of a player with the crown. This was a hard hit, so it was a bad hit. Defense is now at a total disadvantage.
We'll have to agree to disagree
Try dropping your shoulder in for a hit and tell me where your head goes.
If leading with the crown of the helmet is targeting, regardless of where you hit the ball carrier, then 75% of shoulder tackles are targeting.
I disagree. Skalsky led with the shoulder and Fields spun into the helmet. The lack of consistency of targeting calls is killing the game.
He quite clearly lowers his head. That's the penalty. If he uses proper technique and keeps his head up, its not a penalty.
Like I said elsewhere, 75% of tackles are targeting then. Tell me you weren't worried that Deablo would get flagged for targeting when he hit Thompson in the Commonwealth Cup game.
Coaches teach kids not to tackle like that in youth leagues. Not because its targeting but because its a great way to break your f'n neck. I agree with the targetting call.
Watch the next play that a DB makes a tackle and tell me what they lead with.
Look, I get it. I used to play. You lead with your head no matter what. It's human physiology. You can do that and keep your head up to help limit injury to yourself and your opponent. Skalski lowered hos head to a point that was frankly idiotic. Most neck injuries you see in football result from hits were someone puts their head down like that.
You're right about neck injuries. But targeting was created to get rid of intentional plays. The penalty is so severe that the player is ejected from the game and maybe first half of the next. That hit was not egregious. They must fix the penalty. If the crown hit the thigh, it would by definition still be targeting but the play would have never been reviewed.
Agreed. There wasn't a review for targeting when Etienne got speared in the hip after being tackled in the first half. There wasn't even a flag for the late hit.
The rule needs to be fixed.
It was targeting plain and simple. Was not going to make a difference, Clemson is getting punked
Clemson also got an opponent ejected for a similar "spearing" hit to Lawrence's midsection earlier this year. They have short memories.
Clemson is getting punked. Not by the refs but by the opponent.
#GoACC
Well I'm rooting for Notre Dame and Clemson today.
I'm having a disappointing day so far
I don't think it's going to get better
And I am pulling for both of them to get spanked. I used to be all about pulling for every ACC team in Bowl games, to make the conference look better. But that hasn't done jack for VT or the ACC. If this is what it takes to take the shine off of Clemson and show the real Dabo, then I'm all for it.
Clemson is getting held on almost every play. Absolutely no calls against anOSU. Clemson should have gotten a safety in the third quarter.
Dabo should have spent more time preparing for the game and less time talking shit. He has been saying for the last month that Ohio State isn't playoff caliber team. Wonder how many Clemson players took that to heart and thought they would cake walk through this game.
I know there are let down games, but a playoff game should never be one. Clemson hasn't looked right all year. I think this is a legit outcome.
the massive clown shoes they are all wearing right now make me gleeful
well i guess im an alabama fan next week
I'm a fan of Saban so my choice is easy next week.
The post-game love fest for anOSU last night was unbearable.
Who knew they were such trodden-down, deserving underdogs?
After all, they won six games in the regular season.
No question they were good, and had a good game. And the refs "let 'em play" by not calling holding.
Playing six games was actually a disadvantage to them because they didn't have time to get in sync....in six weeks. Seriously, I do not have any hatred toward OSU but this year has just validated the committee and college football nation in general judging teams based on preconceived notions versus actually winning on the field. Something needs to change in College football or it is going to go down in flames.
(Stealing this from Twitter) "You'd think that Football Joel Osteen would be better prepared to handle a Sermon."
The broadcast made it abundantly clear that anOSU was prepping for this revenge all year. Dabo just added fuel to the fire with the #11 ranking. I worry that now that they got that revenge they won't have that extra edge to prepare for Bama.
I do like how coaches have caught on to not allowing Venables to
steal signalsmake adjustments pre-snap (like VT tried to the extreme).Having watched Clemson play this year, I just didn't see a dominant D-line like they have had in the past. AnOSU's O-line pushed them around all night.
Unfortunately for anOSU, Bama's offense is light-years ahead of Clemson's. I could see the Championship Game being either a shoot-out or Bama just obliteraring anOSU.
Yep tOSU was sending the play in via subs and huddling up, then getting set and snapping quickly to prevent the sign stealing. It gets mentioned by the anonymous coaches quotes every year that nobody steals em better than Clemson. Fields literally straight up said they did all that to avoid the sign stealing after the game.
But even moreso than that, this Clemson defense just wasn't as dominant up front, and wasn't as athletic in the secondary as past defenses. They weren't winning a championship with that defense this season sign stealing or not.