I'm just as frustrated as everyone else after watching the game today. As I said earlier in the game blog this game reminded me when Tyrod played his last game against Stanford. The two games might have been similar as well. But both were loses to former NFL coaches in Mora(UCLA) and Harbaugh(Stanford), not that it matters. After all a loss is still a loss. Is it our scheme or lack of preparation or execution in these kinds of games. That causes us to lose like this in the season and in Bowl season. I fully understand that we still have new OC, OL and WR coaches, but this is the same way we've played before they've got here in these kind of games. I read Andy Bitter's write-up following the game, even Beamer said ''Im disappointed that Mark didnt play better," Beamer said. "Ive got a lot of confidence in him. I think theres a lesson in there: Be ready to play each and every week. ... And he did a couple things really nice and really good and made a couple throws that werent so good. But youve got to be ready to step up." I feel some kind of way after reading that...I mean what really was Beamer expecting Leal to do? Lead us to victory? Step in and manage the game? I wasn't one of those who wanted to swap Thomas for Leal, but just reading that he must have had unreal expectations of Leal. I'm not sure how Beamer wanted him to respond the only time we've seen Leal pass was in the Spring Game.
I know that Leal isn't a freshman but his in game experience was just as much as any true freshman at this point. I've seen him stick up for LT when he had some bad games similar to the one today, but I didn't get that same feeling when I read that. Abs that's just my opinion.
I personally don't believe in moral victories, such as some of the games that we lost this year. I know that a lot of our fans will say that in some of them our defense played lights out. Which they did. I can't take anything away from the way they played all year which was great, but ''we win as a team and lose as one'' as well. So even when Thomas didn't play well the other team still scored more points than we did and that is the objective of all defenses when playing the game of football. So when our offense is down were not complete as a whole team. This is not me taking a shot at our Defense, because our offense haven't been nowhere consistent this year as our defense to a certain degree... I guess my question is how do we fix this? Is it recruiting? Because that still requires execution on the field no matter who's out there... It's it time for Bud to look at other defensive schemes besides his nickel? Will Loeffler change up his scheme for next year to fit the talent on the offensive side of the ball? What are your opinions as how we fix these issues...? There's no need to down- vote others opinions we're all disappointed after this loss, but I want to hear from some of you as to what you think?
Go hokies!!!
We'll comeback from this... We always do!
Comments
I think that this recruiting class and next year's have a chance to something special. It might not be next year, or the year after that but 2016 (more than likely Frank's last year) has a chance to be an amazing season.
I don't think CFB is going to get that Championship. I think Bud Foster will most likely push us over the edge with that.
Care to elaborate? I've seen others say this and I'm just curious to know why everyone thinks Bud will suddenly turn it around. That said, I do believe Bud deserves the HC job after Beamer, but I don't think there's anything magic that will happen because of it. Either Bud or Frank could do it, in my opinion, if recruiting stays at a high level.
Oh I don't believe that Bud will magically or automatically turn it around. It will still take some time (what with transition and all). But I think he has a greater chance than Beamer. I don't think he'll struggle as much as Beamer did for his entire career. Bud will break your neck. Beamer won't because he's "classy". Which is fine. That works for him. But in terms of winning championships and defeating teams in the top 10 that doesn't work. I feel his classiness contributes to the teams he fields that play down to the level of competition. In todays NCAA (and for the last decade for that matter) it doesn't work. I believe you can run a clean program while still beating the shit out of opponents that are not just inferior to us, but also on the level.
Plus, when it comes to making in-game adjustments, Foster is clearly stronger at it than Beamer is.
For starters, everyone needs to calm their collective tits and realize that, like we've been saying since February, this isn't going to be fixed in one year. Maybe not even two. Patience. Give the new coaches time to extinguish the dumpster fire left behind by the old staff (staring right at you, Newsome), recruit their own players (football players, not just "athletes"), and coach them properly. No matter who comes in, there's no way a 5th year senior should say he learned more in the first 3 months with a new coach than he did in 4 years with the old one. Unacceptable.
Also, while tackling all over could have been better, there's only so much you can do schematically when you have THREE FREAKING TRUE FRESHMEN in the secondary. They were confused the whole game, which isn't surprising. I know this looks similar to other games, but this is a completely different (and extremely young) team that was going against a much more talented, not to mention healthy, opponent. Relax, let the coaches do their jobs, give the young guys time to mature, and thank whatever deity you pray to (if any) that a "down" or "rebuilding" year still includes 8 wins.
Yeah, we actually had 4 freshman playing in the secondary if you count Greene. Our D wasn't nearly as good as it was when we had a healthy Kyle Fuller on the field, too. Help is on the way, we have a good recruiting class coming in and hopefully we'll be back to 10 win seasons in a few years. Next year could be painful for us unless we have a good QB emerge.
I completely agree. Yesterday was soooo difficult to watch. We desperately need a QB to step up. Leal looked like he was drowning most of the game. We need our skill players to break out. I do have to say that I thought Jerome Wright did pretty good. He made some decent cuts and picked up yardage then they put Coleman back in. Also Mangus looked good when he returned the ball. I was impressed with his toughness. I just hope and pray our January arrivals step up and make an immediate impact.
Not only was that hilarious, it was exactly my first thought when reading the headline of this thread
I think what I was trying to say in this post was what's causing us to lose in these big games? I can't wait to see French's post on this game. But this has been going on before the new coaches got here. I understand that our team has a lot of promise going forward with the freshman and our new coaches that we have. But look back at the Stanford game... something was exposed with this team way before the new coaches got here. Between Mora and Harbaugh they have NFL experience which helps, but there seems to be a kind of scheme to attack Bud's defense and I understand we don't have the best offensive talent. I'm not saying its anyone's fault either I'm just pointing out that our Bowl record and record against top teams doesn't look good.And yes its a rebuilding year so my guess to you how long does a building year take? 4 to 5 years? Let me know because I'm not using excuses a loss is a loss of we won this game like UCLA did would rebuilding year still be thrown around? Is just my opinion in not trying to be negative I just wanted to know what others thought would take to get over this hump of losing in big games because it's not going to get easier next year as some may think.
Go hokies and everyone have a Happy New year and this is not personal so please don't take it that way for those that respond.
You're absolutely right, it's been going on since before the new coaches got here. It's been going on since about 2007, which is right around the time that Curt Newsome was hired. Those failures in big games and the pitiful talent level on the team right now are, IMO, the two biggest reasons for the coaching change. Loeffler told Thomas that if he had had him for 4 years, Logan would have been gone by now. Similarly, I fully believe that if we had our current offensive coaching staff during the '05-'07 seasons, we'd have won a NC, purely because Bud's defense needed nothing more than a competent offense to back him up. There have been TONS of issues offensively which are just now starting to be fixed and it'll take a little while for that to happen.
Defensively, scheme isn't really the issue. Against Stanford, the Luck-Stanford'sRidiculousTightEnds was just a horrible matchup for JGW. Yesterday, poor tackling was the issue against an elite offensive talent in Lumley. Foster's schemes got his guys there, but for whatever reason they just couldn't get guys on the ground.
To sum up, it's gonna take time to get over that hump. It's gonna take better football players in key spots who are developed by a competent staff in a scheme that looks to create and exploit mismatches. I think we saw a good amount of that last bit this year, now it's time to see if the new coaching staff can pull off the first two parts. New season starts now, GO HOKIES!
I feel bad for Loeffler. The play calling has been heavily scrutinized all season. When a play worked it was a brilliant call. When a play didn't work it was a bone-head call. I'm not sure if that's fair. Let's also look at some of the personnel issues. Pre-season Loeffler seemed high on Malleck and it appeared that the TE position was going to be a big part of his offense. All of a sudden our top TE is injured before we even see him play in a game. I think Kline became one of the few bright spots for this unit as a TRUE FRESHMAN TE. (!!!) The other bright spot would be Logan. An embattled athlete who has been asked to play QB for the last 5 years. In those 5 years he didn't learn fundamentals (progressions, protections, etc) until the beginning of his last year. He also had his mechanics reworked by Loeffler.
So here's a guy who came into a situation where he's trying to build an offense with guys who have never been taught proper fundamentals (LT3) and a general overall lack of talent (how many freshman saw the field this year?)
Do you think it's fair to expect much more than an 8-5 season under those circumstances? Sure we saw flashes of what this offense is capable of but until the pieces are all together (which may take another year or two) I think S.L. deserves benefit of the doubt.
On the plus side, our new coaches have really lit it up on the recruiting trail. I just hope the hard work recruiting pays dividends.
Totally agree. Going one step further, there were plays THAT WORKED that were heavily scrutinized. After a TD in the BC game, where Lefty called a PA off of the veer and Thomas hit Cline wide open in the endzone, I heard people complaining that it was a bad call because we didn't just line up and run the ball in. It was infuriating! Like the guy couldn't do anything right, when in reality, I thought he did a great job. Yes, there will always be calls you'd like back, even Foster has said that. But what do you expect when you're trying to call plays to keep a defense off-balance? I really hope the fanbase as a whole will realize what we've got in Lefty sooner rather than later.
The best way to beat Bud's defense is to have better players.
Tech had plenty of opportunities to make game changing plays. Tyler tipping the pass on a crossing route could have been an interception, UCLA's first touchdown came when Dadi missed a one on one sack, Facysun had a chance for a pick that hit his hand and bounced to the turf right in front of JR Collins, Fuller had a chance for a pick when he jumped a route but an atrocious throw sent the ball into the turf 6 inches in front of him, countless missed tackles and missed assignments in the perimeter run game... and this is all from the first half. I haven't even rewatched the 2nd half yet.
Foster's scheme has always been high risk high reward. The reward comes from turnovers and TFL. Beamerball calls for the defense to make big, game-changing plays and Foster puts them in a position to do just that. If the players don't make those plays, he looks like an average DC. If they do make those plays, he looks like a genius.
The risk comes from asking your secondary to shut down the passing game without many two safety looks. When the other team has very good WR's and a very good QB, the likelihood that the offense converts those difficult throws improves dramatically. Add in some momentum and the playcalling freedom that a late lead brings, and the odds improve even further.
That's why Foster's defenses have been susceptible to meltdowns in big games. The defense is playing against better talent than they normally would, the defense gets very little help from it's offense (who is also playing against better talent than they normally would) which prevents the defense from resting, and the lack of Tech points also allows the opponents playcalling to become less predictable.
Let's not forget, Foster had the number 4 defense in the country heading into this game despite having zero players who are realistically projected to be 1st or 2nd (maybe even 3rd) round picks. The loss of Kyle Fuller was significant. IF recruiting continues to improve, look for Foster to field devastating units in the future. If he can get a hold of some top notch talent at the LBer position, I think we'll see another number 1 rated defense in Blacksburg.
I've always wondered how much more dominant Bud's defense would appear (statistically) if VT had a complementary offense to go along with it. Bud has consistently fielded a top notch defense for decades and he's done it with no help from the O. I've always thought that our D lost ground in the end of games because of fatigue, and if we could just keep other offenses off the field by running long methodical scoring drives on offense I can't think of any reason why our defense wouldn't rank near or at the top in every statistical category....by a long long margin.
Well said 3rd And 31.. I agreed with everything you've said you explained it well. Abs yes they did have opportunities yesterday that slipped through our hands..
Love the opening to this. In principle I agree. But let's not sugarcoat this. Continuous losses like these (and Stanford) are bad for the program. For a program such as ours (which isn't as reputable in terms of wins like Bamy, LSU, or fsu) I firmly believe it causes us to suffer in the long run not just in terms of recruits but overall reputation. A lot of folks on here believe Stiney is our greatest weapon in nabbing recruits. While he is a factor, if we're really honest with ourselves winning and sending players to the nfl are our two greatest weapons in acquiring fairly reputable recruits. And it hurts our program in the long run when we don't win for games like these.
21-straight bowl appearances and 8-wins this season. I'm nowhere near panic mode. Though, our three ACC losses were all extremely frustrating. Duke, though, showed spunk all season long, and that mitigates lamenting too much over that one.
Keep Calm and Beat UVA.
what is our record in those bowl games? I don't wanna be a mediocre team anymore. I wanna be an above average to great team. With the recruits coming in it will certainly help, but there is certainly more wrong with this team that meets the eye. As I said in the other thread I don't think we are prepared for these games.
You don't think Frank Beamer being the winningest coach right now counts as above average? UCLA was the favored team, and low and behold they won.
No, I don't count him being the winningest coach as above average. He beats bad teams. You play at least 5-6 sub par teams in a season, you beat them - great. You do what's expected of you. He does not coach above average teams. He coaches average teams that appear to be good. An above average team brings home championships, bowl game victories, wins over highly ranked opponents about half the time. Frank Beamer does not.
I think we played 2 teams that were sub-par this year. If it's that easy to do, why aren't there more coaches up there with him? A lot of us remember feeling blessed to go to the Gator bowl or worse. I can remember when every Tech win over UVA was an upset. No question is been a trying couple of years but calling out the big man does nothing productive here.
Sure, you can remember that, but this isn't the 90's or early 2000's anymore. We don't feel that way now. We expect to beat bad teams, yet year after year we lose to at least one or two teams that are worse than we are. I personally wish for the bowl streak to end so Beamer supporters really lose their one of two counter arguments to keep him.
And it's not just a trying couple of years, it's been a trying decade. Suffering all the losses we have (Boise, Michigan - I don't care if everyone says Danny Coale caught that ball, we lost regardless of that -, JMU, ECU, etc.) have just made it insufferable to be a fan. Why do opposing teams call us the Chokies? Because they're right, we do. What can we possibly say back to someone when they say that? 21 straight bowls? Great, 21 bowls with a losing record.
Wow. If it's so insufferable to be a Hokie fan then just stop being a Hokie fan. Go outside and play or something. I know it's just your opinion, but since you just basically said you wanted Tech to lose enough games to miss a bowl, perhaps your devotion would be better used on another team.
I agree with you
We are an above average team. think like this their are 70 teams that go to bowl games out of the possible 125. the cutoff for that is 6-6. we were 8-4 this year. so you could say in the past 21 years we have been average once, with last years 6-6 team. every year we are above average, some years we are special. I'm honestly not upset, even with first year coaches we showed signs of improvement on the offensive side. I believe there is a lot of upside to look at
You know what makes "great" teams "great"...balance and consistency. For two years we have had neither from our offense and even a talented defense like ours cannot overcome a deficient offense game in and game out. Were there glimmers of hope from the offense, yes.
Fortunately I'm a glass half full fan. We've seen improvement and recruiting seems to be filling crucial needs on offense.
Another thought...We have been spoiled with 10 wins a year and now the rats are jumping off the ship because of 7-6 and 8-5 seasons. There are plenty of teams that would kill to finish above 500...hello UVA!
I still think there will be growing pains next season, but will hope for the best!
We have had offenses that have been statistically just as bad as the one we had this year. Yes, the defense this eyar was great, but they're not the same defense we're used to. I'd like to mention one of my favorite games, VT vs Clemson in Death valley in 2007. at halftime we had 98 yards of offense....98. the score? we were up 31-8. the defense had 2 take aways, one for a score and they were just absolutely dominating, players (like Macho) were shutting down their entire side of the field themselves. We didnt have a shut down player like that (injury was a contributing factor to that) but still. I am not saying its the defenses fault, they are a great unit, they just dont have the same dominating force that we've had before that could overcome a paltry offense such as ours
Indeed, that was a great game.
I started really disliking Clemson after the way their fans showed their worst face in the aftermath of that game. The [Phony] Death Valley had some real assholes for fans that day.
Go Gamecocks
We were in the game until Logan got hurt. I honestly think we would've won it. So everyone calm down. If we would've won y'all would be talking about how the new coaches won a bowl game against a favored opponent. Now you're talking like we're UVA and struggling to get to bowl games.
We were actually in it until the 4th quarter. Leal played well until then. I think if Logan didn't get hurt it would've been close, yes.
Does Hundley run as wild as he did in the 1st half with Kyle in the game? I think that was huge loss for this game too.
Honestly, from a purely momentum standpoint, we were in it until about midway through the 3rd. In order for us to gain and/or keep momentum we undisputably had to score a TD in the 3rd and needed to do it before the bruins. I got the feeling from the continuous stalled drives and failure to convert opportunities to score points that it wasn't gonna happen. And it played it like it always does.
Interestingly it was when logan took his pads off that we started the down hill tumble, I feel that all of the players still had hope when seeing logan walking around and upbeat but when his pads came off we gave up the long TD drive and then the pic 6. LT was such a great leader not just for the offense but the entire team and he was greatly missed.
I was not disappointed by the outcome of this game. It was pretty much our 2nd team defense and it showed. I'm not worried about next season either. The play calling has improved and Ford or Durkin will step up this spring. We have a great recruiting class for the first time in years. Things are moving in the right direction. It's time to be patient and let the coaches work. Happy New Year and Go Hokies!!!
Agreed. I was not entirely disappointed because not only were we missing veterans in the defensive secondary (although KyFuller and BFacyson aren't exactly typical freshmen), but we were missing our starting RB, lost our TE early, and lost our QB at the beginning of the second quarter. I have thought all year that UCLA was a good team with a great QB and great coach, but this game was competitive for a full two quarters after losing Logan and Kalvin (2nd and 3rd). It was 14-10 in the 4th but we eventually wore down. Hard not to when most of your skill position players are out.
I disagree with the comparisons to the Stanford OB, though. We had almost the same score at halftime of that game, but in the second half they came out and exploited our lack of coverage on TEs and housed us through good coaching. I don't think that happened here. I think we just wore down eventually, and Leal's two ints were a large part of doing us in. Had he never thrown the shotput int to Jack and had we played within the running/short passing game more in the second half, I think the result would have been closer.
It did seem like it was a foregone conclusion with 11 left in the 4th, though. That was disappointing.
Yes, 11 left in the 4th was when I put the game on DVR and took the kids outside to shoot hoops. Amazing considering the score at the end of the 3rd, but at that point there was no doubt this one was over.
I agree guys we all need to just forget yesterday. It was done when Logan was out of the game. Yes leal did some good things but we really saw how much the offense revolved around Logan. Even the jet sweeps looked bad heck Mangus and Parker went helmet to helmet and somehow Mangus got 3 yards from it. It hurts it's stings but look at what we had to play with and what they were playing with. Hundley is a first round maybe top 10 pick in the draft and he played well and made plays when needed. Yes we missed a lot of tackles but he still put himself/team in the position to win.
On that sum waltz guy I don't know how even after the Logan hit they didn't even take a look at it to see. Regardless if he didn't mean it he still hit Logan with his helmet under the chin. That's targeting I have seen clean hits not get called. I do think the Logan's 6'6 300 lbs lol played into this. But he easily could have wrapped him up by hitting his chest. But that dirty player wanted revenge for the ass whooping LT3 just layer on Jack.
In the end we are Virginia Tech and we Will PREVAIL. Looking forward to spring. Go Hokies
Let's not forget he went helmet to helmet later on with one of our running backs. Wright I believe. I don't believe either were accidental. Maybe I'm being a little bitter here, but I don't believe I'll cry much if he tears an acl in the future.
It doesn't help when your top defensive player doesn't dress, another potential NFL DB doesn't dress, then you lose a threat like Klein and then your team leader goes down early in the game. I don't think anyone would have expected us to do well if you said Logan, Calvin, Antone and Kyle were going to be out in addition to Trey. Thats a lot of talent not on the field.
Get that we were hurt / decimated / thin, but... when Hundley ran yesterday I'm not sure we had anyone who could catch him.
Recruit athleticism even if it comes in a kid who is a little over the top or needs some special care. You can't teach D'Lo speed.
We looked slow yesterday and we were probably the smaller team. We may have been quicker than them but in the open field we looked slow. There is a black box where Gentry used to be. Have his methods changed with the times? Are the players getting the bio and techno stuff they need to develop? Are the players sufficiently committed to a development plan? I know we do hand timing for comparability, but I hope we have electronic timing going every day / ever week. The kids should be eating this stuff up. Watching the game yesterday, I'm not sure they are. Not sure if the problem is with the program, Gentry, the $ allocated to Gentry (ahem, Weaver not opening the purse? wouldn't be entirely hard to believe).
We need a little bit of nasty. Great kids, nice kids, but we've been pushed around twice by teams from Cally.
Beamer needs to decide whether he is going to be a man of accomplishment writing books and being above it, or if he's gonna get in the mud pit and get a little dirty. Accomplishment is a cutting edge dirty business... he has accomplished alot... book writing can be a great recruiting tool if its done in an interesting, fun and marketable way... or it can just be about a memoir. Haven't read the book but Frank needs to decide whether he should have written a recruiting tool or a memoir. Get in the game or get out. No disrespect intended the guy has meant everything to VT football.
We need to throw the ball. We got some studs coming in and we need to show that our #1 every year is gonna be a 1000 yard guy. Yes we need the power run game, but Bud has shown that stacking the box with stud DBs is a recipe for shutting down almost every run game. Develop the run game next year but develop and feed these guys coming in. Give SL license to do what he feels needs to be done. Make him fail or succeed on his terms. He seems to be a hard working thinker and I think he's going to get this offensive scheme done in a way to draw talent at all offensive positions.
JMHO
I wish I could use cryogenics and freeze myself until next season started.
...though, the wife and kids might have a problem with that
freeze them too...problem solved
I see no ethical dilemmas whatsoever in this scenario. Freeze away.
"I put my family under a very dangerous procedure."
"Sir, if I may ask you, what in God's name inspired you to do such a thing?"
"I didn't want them to suffer through baseball season."
"THIS MAN IS INNOCENT!"