Seeing as the first bracket has certainly gotten some interest, I thought I'd release the second bracket a little earlier than expected.
Again, I will be taking votes for 48 hours from publishing.
Match 1: The Patriot vs Braveheart
Match 2: Kingdom of Heaven vs Ironclad
Match 3: Glory vs Gettysburg
Match 4: Ride with the Devil vs Outlaw Josey Wales
Match 5: Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World vs Waterloo
Match 6: One Man's Hero vs Rough Riders
Match 7: Apocalypse Now vs The Green Berets
Match 8: Full Metal Jacket vs We Were Soldiers
Vote here
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Oh man, Gettysburg and Glory head-to-head?
I think the edge goes to Gettysburg.
I liked Glory a smidge better. But it could have gotten foggy in my memory.
Match 7 and 8 should be close.
I've only kinda started getting evil
This! I remember watching Gettysburg in the late 90s when I was around 5 or 6 years old. We had the VHS version and it was two full tapes! I loved Civil War movies and books as a kid and this movie checked all the boxes to make my 5 year old self feel as though I was right in-line with Chamberlain fixing my bayonet!
Same. I have a bottle of Chamberlain Pale Ale from Shipyard Brewing in Maine that my dad got me when I was a kid.
I also bought Gods and Generals when I was a kid. I tried watching it relatively recently and it was very clear it did not hold up.
Sidenote: Dr Robertson was the Historical Consultant for God's and Generals.
The actor who played Stonewall Jackson said this about his role preparation:
"I had the Bible in one hand and Bud Robertson's book in the other."
He was referring to Robertson's book Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend. It's a great read if you have an interest.
Coincidently, I just received an email from VT and it included info about the Civil War Weekend started by Bud Robertson. It is virtual and free this year.
https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2021/02/civil-war-weekend-goes-virtual-for-first-time-with-array-of-free.html?utm_source=cmpgn_news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=vtUnirelNewsStudentCMP_030321-students
I took both of Robertson's classes at Tech, and have both of his principle books on Jackson.
I love Foote, Ambrose, and Davis, but Robertson was the best historian and storyteller of the Civil War era.
I took both classes as well, unfortunately he only taught like 4 total sessions of the classes combined as he was off as a movie consultant both times, so his TAs taught the classes. The frustrating part was Robertson then administered the exams and there was quite a bit of the exams on material that his TAs didn't actually cover.
Never had him for a class, but had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Robertson speak at The Union League in Philadelphia. His talk may have been the second most interesting seminar I've ever been to.
The best speaker I ever heard was Bruce Ames while in graduate school - developer of the Ames test, and one of the biggest critics of how the test is being overused/misused and misinterpreted, but that's a whole different story that I could go on about for days.
Kingdom of heaven is a sneaky good pick here. Patriot vs. braveheart is a brutal first rounder both are so good.
We Were Soldiers definitely my #1 in this region. Why? Because it was made from an awesome book - probably 1 of my top 5 or 10 favorites of all time - and, unlike most movies made from great books, Hollywood did not butcher it! Followed closely. Cut out the entire second half of the book at LZ Albany and some other parts, but that was due to time constraints and not changing around the whole story or history. Gettysburg, Glory and Kingdom of Heaven all really good too.
The Gettysburg movie was based on a book by Mike Shaara (he was from Melbourne, FL where I lived for 22 years) called The Killer Angels. That book won a Pulitzer in 1975 for Fiction but was based on a significant amount of facts around the battle. General H. Norman Schwarzkopf described The Killer Angels as "the best and most realistic historical novel about war that I have ever read."
I went to Gettysburg battlefield when I was young and the walk around Devil's Den - the terrain left an indelible mark in me. To fight a hand-to-hand battle in that terrain had to be insane. When that scene in Gettysburg came on I flashed back to that walk. Man that had to SUCK!
Edit: And that book is a great read.
Yeah I read the book fairly recently. It was awesome as well.
When I was a Gettysburg, I was surprised how far the weapons were accurate to then. When you are up on the ridge and it looks like parts below are far way, but they were saying on the plaques that the fire was quite accurate at those distances. Did not realize at the time that Civil War era firearms were that accurate.
My loose understanding of the inclusion of "rifling" in civil war rifles and muskets is that it was available but pretty limited in use. Others here might have better education in this history. I have studied it tangentially as I just love history.
Rifling in muskets slowed reload time. The lack of smokeless gunpowder (from both cannon and rifle fire) created extremely difficult visibility conditions, so there was really little long range shooting opportunities (except in special conditions - like when the Confederates held Devil's Den after the main combat there and used that area to pick off artillerymen and officers on Little Round Top for the next day or so). The generals therefore had "most" units use smooth barrel muskets. Most infantry engagements with whole lines firing were from ranges of 50 to 75 yards. Then when the visibility was almost nil, it went hand-to-hand.
Snipers and specific long range accurate fire units did use rifled long guns to get some range advantage. There is some indications that the highest ranges achieved with successful kills was up to 600 yards.
Here is a decent source to help this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifles_in_the_American_Civil_War
The advent of the multi shot and/or primed cartridge breech loader never made an impact in the Civil War - it came too late. There were several single shot breech loaders used in the US Army, but they still had separate gunpowder loads.
Huh, I didn't know that... which I should've as someone who lived in Melbourne, FL for 21 years.
Dude! When and where did u work?
Me: Harris corp
1985 - 1997
2004 - 2015
1990-2004: K-12th Grade 😉
2007-2013: Various Silicon Valley startups (remote from Viera)
What high school? My wife (1983 grad) and kids (2008 and 2009 grads) went to Eau Gallie.
Those start ups related to LiveTV or other wireless technologies?
I was up in Rockledge. And nah, the startups were mobile apps.
I'd say "small world", but I think I met more Hokies in Brevard than anywhere else :)
Lot's of great technical work in that area (and its still growing!) ... one of the reasons why.
Weather's pretty good for 8 months of the year as well.
Apocalypse Now not having to contend with Platoon in a first round matchup is huge. Depends on seeding next round, but I think that'd be the current most likely Final Four candidate from a soft region.
I have to hope that Platoon is in there somewhere. It should probably have been matched with Apocalypse Now based on the other comparisons.
Full Metal Jacket hands down for the introductory Gunny Hartman Scene. I have two Uncles who were Vietnam Era Marines and both said he was extremely reminiscent of their boot camp memories...
The Green Berets is my champion here mainly because John Wayne plays a straight up bad ass as normal, but also because I've watched it probably 100 times and it never gets old. Patriot is another tough one in this bracket
It wasn't close for me. Green Berets all the way. Green Berets versus We were Soldiers would have been a tougher call for me.
I have seen two of these movies. FMJ FTW
I know FMJ is popular, but please don't vote for it over We Were Soldiers strictly as a war movie.
The Southwest bracket is in the books.
Braveheart out-anglicided The Patriot 41-27
Kingdom of Heaven rode through Ironclad 53-11
Gettysburg bayonetted Glory 39-28
Outlaw Josey Wales outrode the devil 53-7
Master and Commander let fly over Waterloo 44-19
Rough Riders rode over One Man's Hero 50-9
Apocalypse Now swiftboated The Green Berets 47-20
Full Metal Jacket was born to kill We Were Soldiers 45-23