OT: Falcon and Winter Soldier

Thought I would start a similar thread to Wandavision. First episode did not disappoint, lots of action and intrigue. Let the nerd discussion commence...

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I really enjoyed Wandavision and I'm really looking forward to this series (and Loki coming up in June). It's crazy to think that these new series have the same high paid actors from big blockbuster movies and the quality of the product is just as good. Disney is really knocking it out of the park with new content, IMO.

I'm torn between watching now or binging at the end like I did for Wandavision. I think the viewing experience was better binging it, but I don't know if I've got the self-control after WV.

Well my watching for shows like this is controlled by a 7 and 10 year that should have been named spoiler alert #1 and #2 so if I do not watch with them before school/work on Fridays it will be ruined for me. Been like this for Mando, WV, this show and they are really excited for Loki and Boba Fett...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

Ah man, something I didn't even consider for when my kids get older.

Gonna have to teach them the importance of spoilers now..

Aren't you allowed to...you know...muzzle them?

I think, and I could be wrong, that is frowned upon.

I watched it and thought it was ok. The assassination scene and the action sequence at the beginning were pretty cool.

Rather tame start which is to be expected in ways. They spent a lot of time with exposition, setting the table for stuff later on. Pretty dope seeing Batroc back though

Georges St Pierre is the perfect casting for Batroc, a French mercenary with elite kickboxing skills. Fiege and Russo brothers must have thought, hmm..., a charismatic and fan-favorite French Canadian MMA champion by the name of Georges St. Pierre could work.

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Being mean to Bucky Barnes right off the bat, I see 😕

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Thanks Frank!

Well brainwashed or not he did murder thousands of people, got off pretty light overall...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

Because he hasn't suffered enough after being mind wiped and tortured for decades? It's not like he was a prisoner of war for 70 years or anything

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

Episode 2 pretty meh, this show does not seem to know what it wants to be yet. May wait a few weeks for the rest of the season to come out and wait on reviews to decide whether or not to finish. Definitely no Mando or even WV at this point

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

Care to expand on what you didn't like about it? Most Marvel fans I know thought the second episode was right up there with some of the better films in the series. Personally it was one of my favorite episodes between this and WV.

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Not that you asked me, but my only issue with it was they seemed to really want to make a big reveal out of Zimo, but anyone not a casual fan I believe already knew he was in the show. Plus I think Zimo was just a very flat character (in Civil War) in general and I can't seem to really care that he is going to be in the show. Maybe they will change my mind about the character this time around.

On the other hand, I do like the John Walker situation and am left wondering how that's going to spin because I fully expect him to be the main antagonist at this point.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I guess the "reveal" was that Sam and Bucky are looking to Zemo for help or answers, as opposed to Zemo being reintroduced as villainous. But yea, anyone that read the casting list, saw the trailers (with the purple mask), or viewed the end credits of the first episode would know that Zemo was somehow going to be introduced into the story line.

Zemo in theory should still be imprisoned, but who knows what happened during the blip, so I'll be interested in seeing how his story evolves.

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Pretty sure I can't without violating community guidelines; I will just say i don't like the political and wokeness angles

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

Understandable. Not to delve into those waters, but I've heard similar complaints about WV (which I also loved as a series), so I get you.

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So I get what you're saying, and I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with you, but Marvel has always been political or "woke". Using mutants/heroes as a way to bring up social commentary has literally been their thing throughout the years, so I'm not surprised at all that it's in this show too.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Yeah, especially since Prof. Xavier was meant to be the mutant Martin Luther King Jr and Magneto the mutant Malcolm X. Political commentary has always been Marvel's thing. And the early Captain America comics were one of the first to speak out against Nazism in the 1940s. They caught a lot of flak for that back then.

I have liked FWS so far but it's only 2 episodes in and I definitely want more, especially after cliff hanger of episode 2... With WV, after 2 episodes, I had no clue what was going on and almost checked out... luckily end of episode 3 got me hooked.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I need more information on the Flag Smashers. They thought things were "better during the blip" so now they're moving super soldier serum? Kind of seems like the writers just needed an extremist group to be the bad guys and they're grasping at straws a little bit.

Still time to build their story out more, but given that there's only 4 episodes left, and there's a lot of story to tell with the protagonists (+ John Walker), it doesn't seem like we'll get a ton.

Only 4 episodes left?

I'm pretty sure they announced that there are only going to be 6 episodes. I think they said that each of their series will be about 6 hours of content. WandaVision had more episodes since the first few were pretty short, but it should be the same amount of show.

Interesting. Dang. Thought we were getting another 9 or so episodes

Yeah I think the release timeline was supposed to line up so that a week or two after FATWS ended, the Black Widow movie would release, but that got bumped back to July so now we're going to have a Marvel sized hole in our lives until Loki comes out in June

I enjoyed episode 2 more than episode 1.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I was too mad at the end of the first episode with Sam not having the shield to watch the second.

I mean I think that's the point is you are supposed to be like dude WTF you doing?

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I wasn't mad at Sam, I was mad at how he was deceived by the government.

I guess I'm confused as to why that irritates you so much you wouldn't want to continue watching. He's clearly going to get the shield back and take up the mantle. I think that's what the whole show is about.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I'll eventually watch, I just have to get my mind right first :)

You're definitely not alone in your sentiment...

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So like... Any marvel fans wanna fill me in on this new Cap? What's the angle here?

He's gonna take himself some serum, turn evil, and they are gonna have to fight him.

This is a guess

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

John Walker is U.S. Agent in the comics. He is a army veteran and that idolizes Steve Rogers. He has super soldier strength due to radiation treatments. His bio can be found at marvel.com, which is linked here:
U.S. Agent Bio

Searching through his bio, this is probably the most relevant portion that is somewhat adapted to the current show:
**Spoilerish** (but not really, because MCU deviates from comics and very clearly do so here)

Walker rejoined the Army and then received word that Sam Wilson, AKA Falcon, possessed Captain America's shield. Deemed unworthy of it by Keane Industries president and Texas Senator Tom Herald, they reached out to Walker and asked him to reclaim it. Walker refused but then faced Captain America (albeit a bizarre human mutate version of Steve Rogers). Steve Rogers asked him to confront Sam who was apparently out of control; Walker confronted Sam but lost. He later resurfaced fighting against Hydra's forces after they took over the United States government.

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He was the Patriot, and then became Cap. Kind of a dick.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Yea. And I see Marvel was leaning into that dick aspect pretty heavily in the first 2 episodes.

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They made Zemo ten times more interesting in this last episode than the entirety of Civil War. Good episode.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I enjoyed it. I guess the "theories" were wrong about Skrull skulls in the background of the Madripoor party.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I said the same thing about Vision after watching Wandavision.

yea, episode 3 is good. Every major character's storyline got interesting, especially Zemo and Sharon Carter. Carli still needs a little more development, but it looks like the show is getting there.

Madripoor was well done too. Even had the Princess Bar sign (Wolverine's bar).

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Interesting that most of the replies for episode 3 are favorable. I thought it was the weakest of all the episodes. They dropped some of the heavier themes (which I'm sure they'll get back to...I hope) for some exposition and generic action. And that generic action was kind of lame and too matter of fact. Like it doesn't really make sense, even in this situation, that Bucky would bust Zemo out of jail but whatever. Write it off, let's just go with it. But then the episode just devolves into like a video game fetch quest going from point a, to point b, to point c getting pieces of info and they're all doing things we've seen 1000 times in movies before. And the ease with which they track everything down is pretty cheesy, even if it turns out its because Sharon is the Power Broker stringing them along (or working for PB).

But at least Zemo dancing was funny.

Today's episode was muuuuuuuuch better. Kept me fully engaged right up until the end.

So walker just went full on villain? Or, I wonder, if he'll go vigilante like punisher.

That episode 4 ending was easily the darkest moment of the MCU so far. I was shocked that Marvel took it that far. My jaw dropped when Walker brutally murdered that guy. Walker is a perfect example of the danger of super powered humans pose Zemo has been warning against. Marvel has made Zemo a 100 times more relatable in this series. These Disney+ Marvel shows have been phenomenal.

Yeah, it was kinda "meh" for me through the first three episodes. Just kinda felt all over the place to me and seemed kinda disjointed. This episode for whatever reason snapped things into place for me.

Well, I guess that and finding out they had to rewrite the Flag Smasher thing helped.

Missed the thing about the rewrites. Where did you see that?

I saw it on the reddit episode post for the latest episode. Others were pointing out that the series started to be more coherent and a few others chimed in about it.

Apparently the Flag Smashers were aiming to wipe out 50% of people with a virus therefore hijacking the truck in the first episode. Due to current events they changed stuff and pushed the release to after Wandavision instead of before.

I'm not 100% sure how right they are, but it makes the whole thing make more sense. They would have a typical Marvel story before doing something different with Wandavision.

You know, I was watching a breakdown of this week's episode on YouTube and the person also said something along these lines. He pointed out a few obvious edits and said he'd have an episode about it coming out soon.

So walker just went full on villain? Or, I wonder, if he'll go vigilante like punisher.

He killed an "enemy combatant" in a brutal fashion in broad daylight. He's technically doing his job, just poor optics. I'm interested to see how they spin it, because technically he's done exactly what he was sent in to do (just not very Cap-like and in a public setting which will make it hard to PR away).

From the bystanders' point of view, it's the exact same thing that happened against Ultron.

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Great perspective, as this wasn't much different than Bucky's actions in episode 3 when he was "pretending" to be Zemo's winter soldier.

But you can't execute those orders in public and carry the shield so will be interesting how far they take this with Cap. Is he going to be set-up as the next earth-based villain in the upcoming movies or just a dark avenger (hawkeye or early stage hulk)?

That scene struck me as a Homelander type deal (for those who watch The Boys), and even this discussion about how to handle the PR when a "good guy" brutally takes out a "bad guy" and it's caught on video resonates with that story arc as well. I have no answers or even a strong opinion, but the similarities between those two scenarios really stood out to me. I'm genuinely curious to see how they handle it in the next episode.

Edit: Corrected spelling. My bad.

My wife made the exact same Homelander comparison, except she said that The Boys would have shown all the gore where Marvel hid it.

But that was definitely a well done scene. Wonder if Battlestar is really dead. His role in the comics were much more than what we have seen so far.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Hey..

On the subject of comic book adaptations, I'm going to highly recommend that you all watch this show on Prime called Invincible. Animated like the new 52 (DC), and the first episode even gives off a Justice League vibe...until it doesn't.

This one isn't for kids. Pretty mature... Violence, gore, language. It's based off the comic series written by Robert Kirkman (The Walking Dead) back in 2004 and there are 144 issues. I haven't read them but after the show ends, I might. It's really good.

seconded

It's quite good

This week's episode was pretty good. Good week for comic nerds. Lol

This week was... not as good as last week's. Not so much the story, but the long, and unnecessary slow pans on scenes that didn't really matter (I felt)

The cameo was great. The training montage with the shield was great. I am going to have to look into the Thunderbolts though, as I don't know jack shit about it.

Did they previously mention why the Wakandans don't just outright kill Zemo? Interesting to see how things will play out for him considering where he's going, will he appear in another franchise??

I wanna see the suit!!

The Bradley part was heart breaking.

I really enjoyed the opening fight. The cameo was awesome, until she started doing the lifeless monologue. I am a big fan of her work, but if it wasn't for the continuity of figuring out how she factors into the future, it was an underwhelming performance.

The discussion between Sam and Isaiah did more to advance the story and was a great performance by Carl Lumbley.

I know everyone hates him, but Wyatt Russell doing unhinged Snake Plisken/Wyatt Earp/Dean Proffit as a heel is awesome.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

The Contessa was/is supposed to be in the Black Widow movie, which was originally scheduled to come out before FATWS 🤷‍♀️

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

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Thanks Frank!

Wyatt Russell has been great. I hate Walker so much.

Could have used a couple of more episodes. They rushed the hell out of that ending. The new suit is pretty damn sweet though.

I thought episode 5 dragged while 6 was rushed, but they had to change the plot late in the game so its tough to not have issues.

I thought that if this show was a movie, which it really could easily could have, it would have been mediocre and mildly entertaining compared to other MCU stuff. It was a decent show. Kept me watching all the way through. But in the end it's clearly just a setup for the new Captain America Movie, as WandaVision was a setup for several other movies. Good shows, I will keep watching them, but not all that I was hoping for.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

Yeah, ultimately that's just what it is, nice lil nuggets between films to keep the interest up.

It's working splendidly though. Lol. Can't wait to see what Loki has to offer

It's fair to say that if the movies were still rolling out consistently then the shows would probably not feel so much like place fillers. Could have different mindset once they pick up again.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I get both sides of the coin with these shows. The filler (like most every TV show ever) is meh, but for me, the payoffs in these shows are just as epic as most of the MCU films. Absolutely loved this series and it was more than I had hoped for.

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I get both sides of the coin with these shows. The filler (like most every TV show ever) is meh, but for me, the payoffs in these shows are just as epic as most of the MCU films. Absolutely loved this series and it was more than I had hoped for. Really raising the bar for television in a way that resembles the first season of GoT and Lost, respectively.

2021 Season Challenge: only comment with Batman memes.

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I feel like you presented both sides of the coin here.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

You can say that again

Multiverse answer.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

ITS MEPHISTO!!

Yea. Agree here. Overall it was enjoyable but would be pretty low in ranking in marvel movies (still better than Thor 2 and Hulk though). The flag smasher story made no sense to me, but I guess that may be due to the rewrite. Idk how a virus pandemic threat would have improved their arc development though.

The best moments of the series for me were: (1) Craptain America's infamous bludgeoning of a flag smasher, (2) the Falcon and Isaiah Bradley arc, and (3) the Bucky and Sam's guys-being-dudes relationship.

I also like the overall direction of the CA franchise with a lot of interesting characters to work with.

🦃 🦃 🦃

Overall I enjoyed it a lot. For WandaVision I was expecting a "Wow" moment like we're used to getting from the movies and as a lot of people have pointed out here, I don't think the shows are going to blow you away like that. They're more so "filler" and a nice way to build out some characters who haven't gotten as much focus in the movies.

Having moved my goalposts for FATWS, I was pretty impressed. I thought they did a good job with Sam and Bucky's stories both (+ Sam's new suit is pretty sweet), made Walker and Zemo interesting characters, and even fleshed out the Flag Smashers more than I thought they would. I was a little underwhelmed by Sharon's story/turn but what can you do?

I was a little underwhelmed by Sharon's story/turn but what can you do?

I suspect there is a lot more to Sharon's story than the "wow she looks so evil" that we've seen across just this season. The way she behaves and how they wrote her conversations with the various antagonists leave a lot of room for double agent antics.

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Yeah I agree - I don't think she's totally gone bad and I'm hopeful there will be some interesting twists and turns with her in future movies/series (potentially the Armor Wars show with War Machine?).

I just felt like we were left to assume that because they didn't do a ton to explain her backstory (how did she gain so much power in Madripor? Is there someone in particular she holds a grudge against? how did she get involved with Karlie, etc.).

I think how she got power is likely explained by the end of the show. She had lots of state secrets from her old job which she likely sold to increase her power.

I hope they develop her character.

I think I liked the last episode the least. It just felt super rushed and it seems like they threw three or four different storylines together and hoped for the best. Liked the show overall though

I thought the episodes with Zemo were the best, and the second he was gone the show itself felt a little hollow. The ending definitely felt rushed, as if they really didn't know how to finish it off in the way it needed, but that's probably because they literally had to rewrite the whole thing in just a couple months time.

Love the character development they had between Sam and Bucky. Those two are very clearly the face of the Avengers going forward. Sharon turning into a villain is certainly interesting, but I've also read a theory that she's a skrull in disguise. Given secret invasion is supposedly the driving force of this next phase, that would make sense, and bring up a lot of interesting possibilities about future character development, and the ability to easily scrap whatever doesn't work as the work of a skrull.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I like the irony of a skull wearing a photostatic veil (the mask Sharon pulls off in last episode, also used by BW in CA:TWS). Maybe it's a ploy to keep Sam Wilson and Bucky off the track.

Based on the last scene, however, I think Sharon's arc is a lead-in for Armor Wars, but we'll see. Her character could feasibly go in 100 different directions.

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ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

I think it's hilarious that the official Marvel YouTube channel posted one of those "One Hour of Zemo Dancing" on a loop videos.
Link

It's because it got out that there was an extended cut if his dance and the outcry for it to be seen was intense. It's literally how I would picture that guy dancing in real life.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

Wandavision > Winter Soldier.

Really didn't enjoy watching most of this series...enjoyed ep 5 and 6 but all the others were pretty junky

(add if applicable) /s

This is definitely the latest cake vs. pie topic.

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Previous Challenges: Star Wars (2019), Marvel (2020)

Yes. They are both just ok. Ice Cream wins.

ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.

And by ice cream you mean:

Agreed even though I have only saw the first 2 episodes and bits and pieces of the last 4 I feel this is a fair take. Hopefully Loki will be significantly better as he is one of my favorite villains'...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"