is it bad that I'm more interested in the RB battle? I think with a brand new QB taking snaps and (hopefully) a more experienced and fundamentally sound O-line on the field we should expect to see us lean more heavily on the power running game. That will be the battle to keep an eye on IMO
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Unless Trey Edmunds falls way behind schedule in his rehab I don't think the RB battle will be all that interesting. It's his job to lose and both McKenzie and Williams will probably RS.
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I seriously doubt that...I'm not trying to slight Edmunds but McKenzie and Williams are both much more talented recruits at the position and I think one or both of them will compete for playing time right away. They're both big bruisers and they have some speed and flow. I also believe that they'll both be on campus early and will have some time to work out and learn some of the playbook. With how badly we need a feature back I'm sure it will be a wide open competition. It's not Edmund's job to lose...it's everyone's job to win.
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I think CFB knows to be competitive these days that the best player will win each of the position battles, seniority be damned. Letting freshmen play is also good for recruiting.
To be honest, I don't know how much input he really has anymore in terms of who starts at each position - that's up to the coordinators and their respective staffs.
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Why does everybody seem to think the head coach is so freakishly hands off? All calls go through the head coach. He has final say on every decision, every call, every everything - he's the head coach. Whether or not head coaches exercise that power, that's another story. But Beamer definitely has input on who starts at each position, every position.
And this is nothing personal to you Retired or not even anything directed at Beamer per say. I've just seen several comments, over the year and half I've been on the site, basically saying that head coaches are completely hands off on a lot of aspects of the team and I don't know why people think that.
As for the rb thing, I think our backfield got much better by adding Williams and McKenzie and I think they'll both get a chance to impress and compete. McKenzie may be at a slight disadvantage since he'll be rehabbing his knee.
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Nothing personal to you either, but I'm curious - do you think CFB tells Foster how to run the defense? Additionally, I've seen the offense do some things this year that I thought I'd never see from a CFB team. The only segment of the team he has direct control over is Special Teams, and to be completely honest, he ought to be turning that over to someone else and just concentrate on being the head man.
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I believe that Beamer did exactly what he should have done. Leal is the #1 option currently on the team. Therefore as of the bowl game he is the #1 QB going into next year. Beamer didnt say that Ford, Durkin, or someone else couldnt win the job. Saying anything less would be doing a disservice to Leal. Contrary to some peoples belief these days Beamer really does know what he's doing and there is a reason we have been so good for so long.
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If anything, this season shows how important depth is.
Trey had a right tibia fracture and had surgery earlier this month to insert a rod. He is predicted to start running on it in April.
Point being, I wish him Godspeed on his recovery, but we've got to have a stable full.
I feel MUCH better with the verbals we have, but we'll what happens this spring.
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I love Edmunds and he did play well this season but if Williams comes in spring and plays well I say we should consider LB. We have limited depth there and he is a beast.
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@ rockidr and fernleyhokie - let's be fair, what linebacker HASN'T bounced off of Logan Thomas? (in a fair, within-the-rules manner of playing, of course)
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Beamer has always preferred a 2 back approach. If the talent is there, it makes sense to put the best players on the field. I think when David Wilson was the workhorse it was only because there was no Evans or Williams type to give him a break.
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That game was both the best thing that could happen to Leal and the worst. It gave him game experience over the other QBs on the depth chart and an opportunity to prove himself. But it also gave the coaches an entire offseason to think about a couple of those brutal decisions.
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I dunno, bro. I think as a team, we did very well running the ball before all these new wrinkles and twinkles. Now it is an event when we have a good running game. Earlier, it was a given. I know it comes it more passing, but I kinda miss the good old days of pounding the rock.
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The good old days of pounding the rock are about 10 years past. As a team, we did well running the ball before the hiring of Curt Newsome. The pistol can be a very effective formation for running the football and getting your RB going downhill immediately. Now, it's time for Grimes to get his OLine performing at a level that will allow us to get the running game going.
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I think is there one overwhelming positive you can give to Lefty its that he schemes to his talent. If they had the bodies and backs to run a bruising rushing attack I feel sure he would do it. But we just didnt have that this year. We had an underwhelming offense line that played above his talent level. Hopefully going into the future Grimes will be able to obtain and develop that talent that would allow us to get back to vintage power football that Tech has historically been known for. Its trending in that direction but these things take time.
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I am hoping the early entry for ford will help with his strength and allow him to learn the playbook to start next year. Then during can be our connette from duke.
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Loeffler doesn't strike me as a 2-QB system type of OC...and I think French said a while ago that he would be surprised if Ford didn't already have a playbook..
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1. Let's not judge Leal on today's performance. He has had limited snaps all year and was thrown into the fire against a top flight defense.
2. The spring and fall will reveal a lot. Patience. Let's eagerly watch this play out and have faith that Lefty and Co. will determine the best man to lead this team.
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I will discuss this in more detail, but what you saw from Leal isn't rust. He looked exactly the same (good and bad) in the August 17th scrimmage and the spring game as he did today. What you saw today is what he is. Decent accuracy. Mobile, but his mechanics break down under pressure. Makes bad decisions under pressure. Isn't a threat in the option game.
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The pick six caused a lot of anger to spew from my mouth, sending my dog and wife scrambling for cover. It was not one of my prouder moments. Good luck to Leal and the other QBs, we'll see how it sorts out in the Spring.
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Leal looked flustered and like he was trying to be Logan and do it all himself. I was pretty unimpressed. It was interesting that Lefty went to everything under center with Leal in though.
If that's what he is (inconsistent) then I'd rather see a true freshman get the reins and learn on the job. No disrespect to Leal but at least if a Fr is inconsistent he can learn from it and help us down the line. If a RS-Sr is inconsistent its a waste.
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Not every QB is Jamis Winston of Jonny Football. Thinking that a true freshman is going to come into next year and light the world on fire is going to be high expectations (and I am not even talking Heisman, just talking competent QB play). I think that a guy who has been in the program and has had the reps will be starting. Hopefully one of these freshman is going to be good enough to make it an open competition, but I don't see Beamer doing anything crazy. Sometimes you just have to have a Grant Noel type of year.
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Why waste the year with a RS-Sr when you think you can have the same result with one of the Fr.? As much as Beamer won't do anything crazy, I don't think it's going to be his call. I expect there be a competition but unless Leal blows the rest of them away, I don't see why you would go with him outside of loyalty.
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This is the same guy who decided to split time between Tyrod and Glennon for 2 years; both years waiting til a loss to burn Tyrod's "Redshirt".
I hope that an open competition will put the best QB in play, but one of the young guns will have to really be over and above Leal to put him on the field. I'm not saying I want Leal or don't want him, I'm just basing it off Franks history of conservative QB hierarchy.
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That was fat Frank who kept around sub-par coaches for way too long. We now have skinny Frank who just turned over his entire offensive staff in the last couple of years. Beyond that, I think the decision isn't Beamer's, I think its Loeffler's.
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Why waste the year with a RS-Sr when you think you can have the same result with one of the Fr.?
I think one of the freshmen will start... but...
If Leal can give the team an extra two wins, then he deserves the start. Recruiting is a lot easier if you have 8 wins instead of 6. The program is finally starting to pick up momentum on the recruiting trail, I would hate to see that fall apart because of a bad season.
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Agreed, if Leal is clearly better then you go with him, but he has to be CLEARLY better. If it's at all close you have to go with the Fr. since it stands to reason that will pay dividends in the future.
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If i'm not mistaken both of those guys redshirted, so they didn't even do it as true freshmen, although its possible they could have had similar success I believe they benefited from that redshirt
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idk if anyone heard/watched Lefty's post game presser but he looked about as upset as ever. He clearly was in shock for how Leal played, yes his language made it sound like he was ok but those facial expressions said another thing. I think its 100% clear that Leal WILL not be the starter.
What is Beamer suppose to say oh yeah the guy thats coming in in 3 weeks he's going to be the starter, lol. No way that's the fastest/hardest slap in the face to Leal and Beams isn't that kind of guy. I will imagine it going something like this, first few weeks goes by then they have a talk and Leal is told look we are moving in a different direction at QB Lefty hand picked his 3 guys and its going to be a battle so you better strap in and enjoy another 10 win season.
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If Leal is the guy next year that means Lefty will be playing three different QB's in his first three years with the program. That's not really a recipe for success, nor is it good for a new OC trying to implement a system. Also, I honestly believe that the OLine will be better in 2014 than it is in 2015, so breaking in a new QB (like Ford) under 2014's line would IMO be preferable.
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Surely this thread topic is a joke? Ford or Durkin will be the starter next year? If either one of those two are the starter, VT is in BIG, BIG, BIG trouble. Reality check: These guys are NOT big time recruits, gang. They are essentially the same level of recruit as Leal was coming out of HS. The notion that starting either one will essentially be a wash with starting Leal is nonsense.
For better or worse, Leal is almost certainly our best and only option for next year. My only hope is that one of the incoming Frosh QBs (or someone else) will be ready come 2015. But even then, starting a r-Fr at QB is far from optimal. I honestly think it will be 2016 before everything comes together and VT has a solid chance to return to a 10 win season.
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What about Motley? He'll be a R-Fr next year. What about the system? Leal might as well be a R-Fr this year too. You know damn well that Leal learned absolutely nothing from O'cain so it's not off the wall to consider him a T-So next year. If you have a T-So, a R-Fr and a couple of talented T-Fr QBs I think you open up the QB battle in the spring and may the best man win.
Sure Leal has the 'most' experience (barely..he's thrown, what, 30 passes?) of the group but Loeffler is likely to build an offense around the skills of the younger guys. If Leal can operate effectively within that design he might start. But if the offense is designed around the skills of, lets say, Ford then Ford is going to have an inherent advantage over Leal and could easily win out.
If we didn't have a brand new coaching staff I wouldn't disagree with you. But the fact of the matter is, Leal is pretty damn green because O'cain didn't teach him anything and he only has 1 year of experience in they system with minimal game experience. Motely has the same time of experience in the system and might even be more talented than Leal.
I really don't think it's insane to think Leal might not start next year, and I would NOT venture so far as to say that VT is in BIG BIG BIG trouble if Leal isn't #1
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good question...I was under the impression that this was his first year on campus which would mean next year he'll be a R-Fr...but if this is his second year on campus and this was his R-Fr year (meaning he red shirted last year) you would be correct..he would be a R-So next year.
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I have no opinion per se on Motley. But other than wishful thinking, how exactly do you come to the conclusion that Motley might be more talented than Leal?
Any speculation based on the notion that Ford (or even Durkin, who is far more physically ready to step onto a div 1 football field) will be anywhere near the same level as Leal (or have an "inherent advantage") in 9 or even 12 months is naive at best.
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QBs are coming out of HS a lot more game ready now than they were even 5 years ago. Leal wasn't recruited by Loeffler, but Ford and Durkin were. I would not be surprised if Loeffler designed the offense around the strengths of Ford and Durkin. If Leal has the SAME strengths as Ford and Durkin, then he could more easily be an effective QB in the offense. If Leal does NOT have the same strengths he may struggle to run the offense effectively and could lose the starting job. Motley has spent exactly the same amount of time learning from Loeffler as Leal. From the outside looking in the ONLY advantage that Leal would have over Motley is that he's been around longer. If you think about it, that might actually be a disadvantage since he has to UNLEARN everything that O'cain "taught" him. At least Motley wasn't guided down the wrong path for 3 years before being told everything he's been doing for that time span is dead wrong and he needs to forget everything and move on.
When you take ALLLL of that into consideration, it's not at all unthinkable that Leal might not be the starter. I'm not saying that Leal DEFINITELY WON'T start...I'm saying that it's naive to say Leal "DEFINITELY WILL start and if he doesn't that means VT is in BIG trouble".
Look at everything in front of you. Erase everything in the offense pre-Loeffler. Leal and Motley have exactly the same amount of time in the system. Motley was automatically not going to be the immediate back-up regardless of talent level because he was redshirting. I don't KNOW whether Motley is more talented or not, but it's unreasonable to rule it out.
So, like I said before, don't forget about Motley.
Now, as for the younger guys...They may or may not be game ready. That's for the coaches to determine. But based on what I saw from Leal he's not as talented at the QB position as either of the younger guys. IF (and that's a big if..I'm no ball coach) Loeffler decides to design an offense around the skillset of one of the younger guys that will put Leal in a tough spot to be competitive. Why would Loeffler do that you ask? Well, he designed an offense around the skills of LT, so it's not unreasonable to think that's what he'll do again. But does he really want to do that 3 years in a row? I hope not. It's going to be tough to run a competitive offense every year if you have to redesign it for different style athletes every year. I imagine he would rather design it for the future, around the younger guys, and then continue recruiting similar players so 3, 5, 10 years from now he can just plug players into the system. To me, that makes a lot more sense than changing the system to fit the random athletes that you have on your roster every year.
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It's really not THAT naive. Let's look at Leal when he was recruited and compare that to Ford and Durkin (just for simplicity we'll use the rankings from 247 and Rivals, not the best sources I'll grant you but anyway). Leal was the 28th QB-DT in his recruiting year and was just barely in Florida's top 100 players coming in at 97.
Andrew Ford is ranked as the 40th QB-PP by 247 and the 26th player in Pennsylvania (please note that he won the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state, though). Rivals likes him a little more, listing him as the 27th pro-style qb and the 16th overall best player in PA. He also went to the Elite 11 final camp as one of 14 QBs invited but didn't earn one of the 11 spots once there.
Chris Durkin is rated the 17th best pro-style QB by 247 and the 15th by Rivals while both have his as the 20th best player out of Ohio this year.
So, if we took all 3 of them straight out of high school and went straight by the numbers it would be Durkin > Ford > Leal.
The argument for Leal is that he's been the backup for a couple years now and has more in-game experience. While that is true, you can't evade the fact that Leal will only have had one more season of good coaching at the collegiate level than either of our incoming QBs (we can just write off whatever the heck O'Cain was supposed to be teaching him) and in practice he was only taking back-up reps because he was the back up. Before the UCLA game he was 3/4 for 25 yards only seeing playing time against Western Carolina. In 2012 he was 4/6 for 26 yards against Austin Peay. Back in 2011 he was 9/13 for 153 yards and 2 TDs against App State. So in his career he's 28/48 for 334, 2 TDs and 2 INTs.
Yes, he's been the back up for 3 years now. But, I say again, he's only had one year of good solid coaching and even then he was only receiving back-up snaps, not the same as for LT3 and in his one real in game experience he showed NOTHING to say the he's got the job locked down. Ultimately, though, anything can happen over the course of spring practice and fall camp and I think we've got a great QB competition ahead of us.
So, ultimately what I've taken a really long time to try to say is that it's not "naive" to think that someone else could come in and win the job when the guys we've got currently haven't done a thing to prove that they're capable of taking the reigns.
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I agree with your point, but Ford is actually pretty highly rated on 247sports; you were looking at the composite ranking which takes into account useless recruiting services like ESPN. He is actually 18th pro-style on there.
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Bunk...there are over 2 dozen programs that started Freshman QB's this year and had pretty effective results, and they were not highly-rated recruits either. VT is in big, big trouble IF Leal is more effective than the two guys coming in because he is not good.
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Really? TWO dozen? So 20% of FBS teams started true frosh and they had pretty effective results? How many of these were in the ACC? Let's see, that would be...ZERO. In fact, I think Winston was the only r-FR starter.
I'm calling total BS here.
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Why? Because a senior who has been in the program for 4+ years is more effective than a kid who has been in the offense one semester maximum? That makes zero sense.
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This thread isn't about how "big time" a recruit is. If it was, we would be talking about Travon McMillian. He is technically our highest rated QB recruit in this class, but we aren't. We are looking at the QB's that fit Loeffler's desired system, and those guys are Durkin and Ford.
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Truth. IMO McMillian & Motley would've had the best shot to start under the old staff / system where improvisation and scrambling were vital to any kind of success in the passing game.
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Really? They're totally different players, so how could they both be a fit for Loeffler's desired system?
Folks are clearly desperate when trying to spin that a couple of nice, but not off-the-charts, talents could start QB at a major college program as a true freshman with anything less than disastrous results for the team -- and the player.
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I think it's quite wrong to think it's autodisaster TM, as you claim.
A redshirt Fr is normally better but, autodisaster, nah, it makes you sound like Chicken Little shouting"The sky is falling."
Suboptimal? Probably but not autodisaster.
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Ford and Durkin are both QB's that wouldn't have given Virginia Tech a second thought with O'Cain as the QB Coach and Stinespring as the O. Coordinator. They are a step up from Leal who was a good passer in HS but hasn't shown the ability to handle college defenses, and a big step up from the QB's we would otherwise be recruiting this year. I'm not trying to insult Leal's abilities but he wasn't even in Rivals' Top100 for the state of Florida in 2010. Parker & Motley are examples of the kinds of QBs we were recruiting under the old staff... projects who were raw athletes that the coaches hoped could be molded into a Mike Vick or Tyrod Taylor type QB. Ford is the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Pennsylvania as a passer. Durkin is a big pro-style QB in the mold of Hogan from Stanford and had offers from half the Big Ten, They're both borderline 3/4 star type players while Leal was a firm 3.
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Actually Leal wasn't much below Durkin and Ford as national recruit. Leal was the 28th rated dual threat by Rivals/ #81 QB by Scout. Durkin is the Rivals 16th rated pro style/#17 QB by Scout. Ford is the Rivals 27th rated pro-style/#53 QB by Scout.
The point isn't that Leal is going to be an All-American or that Durkin/Ford can't be be quality starters or better eventually. The point is that neither of the incoming guys is such an overwhelming talent that they are going to be ready to start in 9 months -- let alone over r-Sr (albeit a flawed one).
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Also, I don't know if you pay that much attention to recruiting rankings but they end up not meaning sh*t in the end. Darren Evans was a 3-star guy, and he set records as a freshman. Being a "big-time" recruit means very, very little until they step on the field.
Plus, how do you know Leal is the best and only option? Have you seen Motley play? Durkin? Ford? Shoot, even Bucky? And furthermore, how much exactly have you seen Leal play? Not enough to say he's the hands-down starter for next year that's for sure.
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If recruiting rankings were accurate, would we even be talking about turning our legit 4 star QB recruit into a tight end?
If they were so accurate, Bucky would be the front runner for the job next year and we wouldn't even be talking about Ford or Leal.
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Thank you for your opinion but this is mostly innacurate. Sparty liked Durkin a lot and they are currently an elite BIG talent. Ford won the #1 player of the year in PA and was an Elite 11 QB. They arent Andrew Luck, but they sure as hell are not low level recruits..
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Right...Durkin was the top QB in Michigan State's class...they were definitely upset when they lost him to us. In fact, they were making comments that he would be the guaranteed starter as a true freshman once he got to Blacksburg.
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That's what's got me so excited. He's so good, and he's still not the Guaranteed (with a capital G) starter.
Ford looks to have great leadership skills though, which will give him an edge over Durkin. Also Ford will be on campus very soon. Another edge over Durkin. The real question is: Can Brendan Motley or Mark Leal use their experience to put their mark on the offense?
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Exactly, they aren't Andrew Luck (who didn't play a true-Fr by the way).
They are what they are...nice recruits who, given time, could develop into quality starters (or better). They are not certainly not of the caliber to be lining up under center 9 months from now.
My brother is a Spartan. Trust me when I say that while the MSU fanbase wishes they hadn't lost Durkin, it generally wasn't particularly concerned about losing him.
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I'm sorry, but I seriously don't believe you pay much attention to recruiting. That's all I'll say - everyone else in this thread has pretty much said it all.
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I have to disagree...at least on Ford. No one wins Gatorade Player of the Year in a state and goes to the Elite 11 and doesn't have something. Look at the guys film and his stats. I think you are off on Leal. Also, look at the Sugar Bowl last night. Trevor Knight, a redshirt freshman just tore up the defending national champs.
Knight is 6'3" and 195 lbs....Ford is 6'3" and 198 lbs. They both run a 4.6.
I don't have a problem with Ford and Durkin redshirting, but to to think in todays college football landscape that a true freshman can't succeed is just wrong.
IF we can get the running game going, it will take alot of pressure off the Hokie QB. Now, thats a big IF...
I think the ceiling is higher with Ford or Durkin, so you might as well go for it. Of course, Ford needs to beat out Leal fair and square.
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As legit of a point as this may be, let's not forget that even Andrew Luck redshirtted his freshman year. I'm all for giving the young guys a fair shot, but let's not be too quick to toss guys into the fire.
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Sorry but I'm pretty positive that leal didnt get invited to the the elite 11 competition like Ford. Ford is definently a higher regarded prospect than leal ever was, and he's the type guy the lefty wants
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I take it we've given up on Bucky being a QB and will most likely be moving positions? I haven't seen anything confirming that fact, but I haven't seen him brought up in conversations.
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He played TE on the scout team for about the last 3/4 of the year (pretty much since the UNC game). Add to that the fact that we recruited 2 QBs to go along with Leal and Motley, and you can pretty much see the writing on the wall for Bucky's QB chances. Also, he had some pretty major mechanical issues in the Fall. He would've needed a lot of work to become an effective passer. Motley looked much more polished, even coming out of a wing-T offense in high school.
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Plus, from what I've read and heard, Hodges has looked very good at TE catching the ball, running after the catch, and blocking. That's a recipe for solid playing time at a position that needs a TE with his measurables.
Lefty needs big TEs who can run good routes, catch the ball, get yards after the catch, and block when called upon. That opens up the kind of offense Lefty wants to run. Cline, Malleck, Hodges, and Burke fill that bill. Redman is a very good blocking TE. I'm not sure what's happening with Dakota Jackson.
As far as QBs go, I think the handwriting is on the wall that Leal will NOT be the starter in the Fall. I think Motley will take the lead this Spring unless Ford can beat him out. Durkin arrives in the Fall and has looked very good in practice (passing and running) for one of the post-season all-star games.
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I believe we end up starting motley but will play durkin for red zone packages. Ford will challenge big time for 2015. He just isn't physical enough to take the beating yet. It will be a similar year as 2008 from the qb position. The freshman can't take the pounding and we would be unwise to subject their development to it 100% of the snaps.
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Disagree on the reason being Ford can't take the pounding. The guy is 198 lbs. Trevor Knight who beat Alabama last night is 195lbs. It comes down to toughness sometimes.
I am not saying Ford wins the job, but if he doesn't it isn't necessarily because he can't take the pounding, but more likely because he isn't mentally ready for the job of being a QB as far as reading defenses, making his progression's etc.
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How in the world can you predict Durkin as the red zone QB?
First off, the Hokies haven't traditionally been a team that switches out QB's in the redzone. The guy has not even signed his LOI yet and is not even on campus. Yet somehow he is annointed the redzone QB?
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key word there...."traditionally" and this is why CFB hired a whole new coaching staff. We were getting stuck in the "traditional" category and he wanted to make a change. I think CFB saved a couple years of coaching by this huge change, yes it was late but well needed.
I wouldn't be surprised with our awful redzone offense to see a little wrinkle. Maybe not every time we get there but he did run it at UF with Tebow and if we don't have to burn a freshmen's Redshirt for the package why not add 3-4 plays in. It can't be that hard.
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Loeffler isn't going to pull any punches this year. He will use the pieces he has to give the team a chance to win. I am not discounting Ford at all I just think Durkin may have some tools in his toolbox thatcan be utilized in certain situations i.e. red Zone opportunities. I am basing that off of the style of each from the limited film on durkin and more extensive film on Ford. If you want to talk traditional, we were traditionally a 10 win team for almost decade. Changes have been made to get us back there.
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Lets all agree to disagree...I say we turn Ford, Durkin, Leal, Motley, and Bucky into tight ends and run a new hybrid 5 TE offense....with Sam Rogers at QB.
Think big...we can change the landscape of college football.
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For my two cents, I think the competition is between Leal, Motley, and Ford with the edge to Motley or Ford. I think Durkin gets red-shirted period. The late start (fall enrollment) will keep him out of the competition this year.
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I'd also like to point out that while one of the freshmen may indeed win the starting job, players benefit tremendously from a redshirt year. Winston, Manziel, even Vick are examples.
Also, in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers sat for two full years before even taking a meaningful snap.
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Right but they red-shirted because the guy in front of them had actual playing time and significant minutes. We literally are starting from scratch, but this time Leal has seen the playbook
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I honestly think Leal doesn't have a chance. Based on this year, I think Lefty spent all his QB time with LT because he had no other options, and spent very little with Leal.
Come next year, Lefty will have a couple guys that fit his system. I think he would rather spend the time grooming those kids and getting them experience, then waste a year on a Kid who will be gone. It's a bum deal for Leal, but sometimes that's how it goes.
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To me this is by far the most sensible post. Not to knock on anyone else's perspective or Leal's abilities but if he is our starting QB next season, I will lose all faith in our offensive direction.
We went all in on LT3 this yr and if he doesn't get hurt against UCLA Leal doesn't play at all. I still believe Leal is a good QB, he managed the game well and moved the chains for the most part given the environment. Forget meaningful snaps, consider almost getting ZERO snaps at all and then getting your number called in a bowl game when u've probably mentally closed the book on the season (I didn't even believe another human being could remove LT3 from the field). It's hard to be prepared; you don't get better at practice you get better in the game. I wouldn't completely assess his capabilities on one game, we learned not to do that with LT3 himself.
With all that and what not, if you are a new coach looking to establish your identity on a program, you need to move forward and start preparing for your future NOW. By starting a RS senior next year AGAIN, you're kicking the can down the road another year and this does not make any sense at all. Unless Leal projects to be championship QB next year (which for all my faith in his abilities I believe he is not) there is no point in starting him for one year. Take your knocks with the guy you believe in and get better going forward.
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if he is our starting QB next season, I will lose all faith in our offensive direction.
Let's not forget that it is possible that Leal improves a lot during the offseason. While everyone says "backups should practice like starters", the truth is that there is a big difference between being the face of a program and being the guy who signals in the plays.
Now that Logan is out of the picture, how will Leal respond? If it's "business as usual" for him, I expect he'll get passed over. If he really motivates and puts in the work and improves, he could win the position and allow Durkin and Ford to redshirt.
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I agree with this but I was very underwhelmed with Leal, even with him getting thrown into the fire. I think if Ford or Durkin has 1 year under Lefty, as Leal has, they would have performed better. Starters have a way of showing up for a game in bad situations. I remember Tyrod burning his redshirt against LSU. We got our ass kicked but I think everyone came away knowing that Tyrod was going to be the guy. I just didn't have that same feeling with Leal.
I do wish him the best though. He's put in the time and put in the effort to get the chance. If he does start it will be because he should. Lefty's going to play the guy he thinks will win.
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I get what you're saying though but I think a starter rises to the challenge. When Logan came in to make that one throw against Miami, he made it. I know it was a tough situation but I think there would have been some spark, or highlight there to demonstrably say: "Yeah, this Leal kid. It was a tough game but I can see him getting it done."
I just didn't get that feeling. Maybe others did though.
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Comments
Let's not forget Motley.
Edit: Messed up which QB I was thinking of.
Let's not forget Cline either.
Maybe I missed it but I'm surprised it took this long for me to see somebody joke about making Cline the QB on here.
You heard it here first, folks.
Rogers?
LOL, no, FORD! Even though I don't know anything about him yet. Shiny new toy and all.
I mean Rogers does have a 100 percent completion rate.
is it bad that I'm more interested in the RB battle? I think with a brand new QB taking snaps and (hopefully) a more experienced and fundamentally sound O-line on the field we should expect to see us lean more heavily on the power running game. That will be the battle to keep an eye on IMO
Not at all. That'll be a fun one to watch too.
Unless Trey Edmunds falls way behind schedule in his rehab I don't think the RB battle will be all that interesting. It's his job to lose and both McKenzie and Williams will probably RS.
I seriously doubt that...I'm not trying to slight Edmunds but McKenzie and Williams are both much more talented recruits at the position and I think one or both of them will compete for playing time right away. They're both big bruisers and they have some speed and flow. I also believe that they'll both be on campus early and will have some time to work out and learn some of the playbook. With how badly we need a feature back I'm sure it will be a wide open competition. It's not Edmund's job to lose...it's everyone's job to win.
Beamer is too loyal, he'll make Edmunds the starter. Just like he "said" Leal will be
I think CFB knows to be competitive these days that the best player will win each of the position battles, seniority be damned. Letting freshmen play is also good for recruiting.
To be honest, I don't know how much input he really has anymore in terms of who starts at each position - that's up to the coordinators and their respective staffs.
Why does everybody seem to think the head coach is so freakishly hands off? All calls go through the head coach. He has final say on every decision, every call, every everything - he's the head coach. Whether or not head coaches exercise that power, that's another story. But Beamer definitely has input on who starts at each position, every position.
And this is nothing personal to you Retired or not even anything directed at Beamer per say. I've just seen several comments, over the year and half I've been on the site, basically saying that head coaches are completely hands off on a lot of aspects of the team and I don't know why people think that.
As for the rb thing, I think our backfield got much better by adding Williams and McKenzie and I think they'll both get a chance to impress and compete. McKenzie may be at a slight disadvantage since he'll be rehabbing his knee.
Nothing personal to you either, but I'm curious - do you think CFB tells Foster how to run the defense? Additionally, I've seen the offense do some things this year that I thought I'd never see from a CFB team. The only segment of the team he has direct control over is Special Teams, and to be completely honest, he ought to be turning that over to someone else and just concentrate on being the head man.
He still has to sign off on these things.
"Hey Frank, here's basically the defense that I want to run. For it to work we're going to need really good defensive backs."
"I played defensive back. I approve of this scheme."
"Hey Frank, here's basically the offense that I want to run. For it to work we're going to need to completely recruit a new team."
"Fair nuff. And in the interim?"
"We're gonna do some weird stuff to try and make use of what we've got. I know it's going to be weird, but I need you to trust me."
"Sounds allright. I understand you didn't get to run what you wanted at Auburn, so I'll give you some level of autonomy here."
I believe that Beamer did exactly what he should have done. Leal is the #1 option currently on the team. Therefore as of the bowl game he is the #1 QB going into next year. Beamer didnt say that Ford, Durkin, or someone else couldnt win the job. Saying anything less would be doing a disservice to Leal. Contrary to some peoples belief these days Beamer really does know what he's doing and there is a reason we have been so good for so long.
If anything, this season shows how important depth is.
Trey had a right tibia fracture and had surgery earlier this month to insert a rod. He is predicted to start running on it in April.
Point being, I wish him Godspeed on his recovery, but we've got to have a stable full.
I feel MUCH better with the verbals we have, but we'll what happens this spring.
Wonder if edmunds could take a medical redshirt next year?
No
I like this. Short, sweet, to the point.
I love Edmunds and he did play well this season but if Williams comes in spring and plays well I say we should consider LB. We have limited depth there and he is a beast.
He could be our Myles Jack, no?
I thought the exact same thing.
Maybe with less getting trucked in bowl games?
I like the idea but I'd rather he be a LB that doesn't pinball off of opposing QB's.
@ rockidr and fernleyhokie - let's be fair, what linebacker HASN'T bounced off of Logan Thomas? (in a fair, within-the-rules manner of playing, of course)
+1. you make an excellent point. But I have never seen any other trucking victim fly so high and so far as this
Not when the trucker was hauling the ball.
That right there is good for an NFL look. Jack, knows jack, and he got jacked.
Beamer has always preferred a 2 back approach. If the talent is there, it makes sense to put the best players on the field. I think when David Wilson was the workhorse it was only because there was no Evans or Williams type to give him a break.
I think that was more Billy Hite than Beamer...
I always liked Josh Ogelsby and I think he got quite a few snaps during the season too when Wilson needed rest
i agree completely. Leal looked bad out there today. It was a tough matchup but...wow that was ugly.
That first pick.... *shudder*
That game was both the best thing that could happen to Leal and the worst. It gave him game experience over the other QBs on the depth chart and an opportunity to prove himself. But it also gave the coaches an entire offseason to think about a couple of those brutal decisions.
The real questions:
Will CFB demand that we do away with this Pistol nonsense and go back to basics?
Who will be next year's O-line starters?
Pistol nonsense? We had some of our best and most consistent running out of the pistol.
Next question is a very valid one though. It'll be interesting to see what Grimes does with those bodies.
I dunno, bro. I think as a team, we did very well running the ball before all these new wrinkles and twinkles. Now it is an event when we have a good running game. Earlier, it was a given. I know it comes it more passing, but I kinda miss the good old days of pounding the rock.
The good old days of pounding the rock are about 10 years past. As a team, we did well running the ball before the hiring of Curt Newsome. The pistol can be a very effective formation for running the football and getting your RB going downhill immediately. Now, it's time for Grimes to get his OLine performing at a level that will allow us to get the running game going.
And look where Newsome is now.
"10" years past? DW left in '11 (2 years), RW and DE left the year prior (3 years). Remember, all three of those RBs set various records for us.
Yes, but those backs were outstanding and set records despite our OLine play and offensive system, not because of it.
I did a cartwheel when Newsome was finally let go. That man did more to hurt Tech then the Stiney as OC experiment.
I think is there one overwhelming positive you can give to Lefty its that he schemes to his talent. If they had the bodies and backs to run a bruising rushing attack I feel sure he would do it. But we just didnt have that this year. We had an underwhelming offense line that played above his talent level. Hopefully going into the future Grimes will be able to obtain and develop that talent that would allow us to get back to vintage power football that Tech has historically been known for. Its trending in that direction but these things take time.
On the OL I wouldn't be surprised to see teller and Smith start next year
The OL had a good game. I am not sure why there is vitriol directed at them.
I totally agree I thought the line played well. Jerome ran well, I wish he had more touches.
Probably because they don't want to blame the defense for getting blown up and the coaches for Leal being completely unprepared.
Note: I don't blame Leal for being unprepared. I do think that the position should be open for competition, but he is in front right now.
I am hoping the early entry for ford will help with his strength and allow him to learn the playbook to start next year. Then during can be our connette from duke.
Loeffler doesn't strike me as a 2-QB system type of OC...and I think French said a while ago that he would be surprised if Ford didn't already have a playbook..
I would think I would wait for his LOI before I gave him a playbook.
Ford is enrolled for January. I think that might be better than an LOI.
How about this:
1. Let's not judge Leal on today's performance. He has had limited snaps all year and was thrown into the fire against a top flight defense.
2. The spring and fall will reveal a lot. Patience. Let's eagerly watch this play out and have faith that Lefty and Co. will determine the best man to lead this team.
I will discuss this in more detail, but what you saw from Leal isn't rust. He looked exactly the same (good and bad) in the August 17th scrimmage and the spring game as he did today. What you saw today is what he is. Decent accuracy. Mobile, but his mechanics break down under pressure. Makes bad decisions under pressure. Isn't a threat in the option game.
Yep, he's a backup.
So he's Logan Thomas without the power run threat? :)
That's like saying that Ryan Fitzpatrick is Aaron Rodgers without the arm strength.
Too much sanity for this time of year
The pick six caused a lot of anger to spew from my mouth, sending my dog and wife scrambling for cover. It was not one of my prouder moments. Good luck to Leal and the other QBs, we'll see how it sorts out in the Spring.
Leal looked flustered and like he was trying to be Logan and do it all himself. I was pretty unimpressed. It was interesting that Lefty went to everything under center with Leal in though.
If that's what he is (inconsistent) then I'd rather see a true freshman get the reins and learn on the job. No disrespect to Leal but at least if a Fr is inconsistent he can learn from it and help us down the line. If a RS-Sr is inconsistent its a waste.
To be honest, I was happy to see the QB under center again. Of course, then the O line stepped on Leal's foot in one play.
Not every QB is Jamis Winston of Jonny Football. Thinking that a true freshman is going to come into next year and light the world on fire is going to be high expectations (and I am not even talking Heisman, just talking competent QB play). I think that a guy who has been in the program and has had the reps will be starting. Hopefully one of these freshman is going to be good enough to make it an open competition, but I don't see Beamer doing anything crazy. Sometimes you just have to have a Grant Noel type of year.
Why waste the year with a RS-Sr when you think you can have the same result with one of the Fr.? As much as Beamer won't do anything crazy, I don't think it's going to be his call. I expect there be a competition but unless Leal blows the rest of them away, I don't see why you would go with him outside of loyalty.
This is the same guy who decided to split time between Tyrod and Glennon for 2 years; both years waiting til a loss to burn Tyrod's "Redshirt".
I hope that an open competition will put the best QB in play, but one of the young guns will have to really be over and above Leal to put him on the field. I'm not saying I want Leal or don't want him, I'm just basing it off Franks history of conservative QB hierarchy.
That was fat Frank who kept around sub-par coaches for way too long. We now have skinny Frank who just turned over his entire offensive staff in the last couple of years. Beyond that, I think the decision isn't Beamer's, I think its Loeffler's.
I agree with fly, The decision is Loeffler's.
I think one of the freshmen will start... but...
If Leal can give the team an extra two wins, then he deserves the start. Recruiting is a lot easier if you have 8 wins instead of 6. The program is finally starting to pick up momentum on the recruiting trail, I would hate to see that fall apart because of a bad season.
Agreed, if Leal is clearly better then you go with him, but he has to be CLEARLY better. If it's at all close you have to go with the Fr. since it stands to reason that will pay dividends in the future.
If i'm not mistaken both of those guys redshirted, so they didn't even do it as true freshmen, although its possible they could have had similar success I believe they benefited from that redshirt
idk if anyone heard/watched Lefty's post game presser but he looked about as upset as ever. He clearly was in shock for how Leal played, yes his language made it sound like he was ok but those facial expressions said another thing. I think its 100% clear that Leal WILL not be the starter.
What is Beamer suppose to say oh yeah the guy thats coming in in 3 weeks he's going to be the starter, lol. No way that's the fastest/hardest slap in the face to Leal and Beams isn't that kind of guy. I will imagine it going something like this, first few weeks goes by then they have a talk and Leal is told look we are moving in a different direction at QB Lefty hand picked his 3 guys and its going to be a battle so you better strap in and enjoy another 10 win season.
Only 10?
If Leal is the guy next year that means Lefty will be playing three different QB's in his first three years with the program. That's not really a recipe for success, nor is it good for a new OC trying to implement a system. Also, I honestly believe that the OLine will be better in 2014 than it is in 2015, so breaking in a new QB (like Ford) under 2014's line would IMO be preferable.
Surely this thread topic is a joke? Ford or Durkin will be the starter next year? If either one of those two are the starter, VT is in BIG, BIG, BIG trouble. Reality check: These guys are NOT big time recruits, gang. They are essentially the same level of recruit as Leal was coming out of HS. The notion that starting either one will essentially be a wash with starting Leal is nonsense.
For better or worse, Leal is almost certainly our best and only option for next year. My only hope is that one of the incoming Frosh QBs (or someone else) will be ready come 2015. But even then, starting a r-Fr at QB is far from optimal. I honestly think it will be 2016 before everything comes together and VT has a solid chance to return to a 10 win season.
What about Motley? He'll be a R-Fr next year. What about the system? Leal might as well be a R-Fr this year too. You know damn well that Leal learned absolutely nothing from O'cain so it's not off the wall to consider him a T-So next year. If you have a T-So, a R-Fr and a couple of talented T-Fr QBs I think you open up the QB battle in the spring and may the best man win.
Sure Leal has the 'most' experience (barely..he's thrown, what, 30 passes?) of the group but Loeffler is likely to build an offense around the skills of the younger guys. If Leal can operate effectively within that design he might start. But if the offense is designed around the skills of, lets say, Ford then Ford is going to have an inherent advantage over Leal and could easily win out.
If we didn't have a brand new coaching staff I wouldn't disagree with you. But the fact of the matter is, Leal is pretty damn green because O'cain didn't teach him anything and he only has 1 year of experience in they system with minimal game experience. Motely has the same time of experience in the system and might even be more talented than Leal.
I really don't think it's insane to think Leal might not start next year, and I would NOT venture so far as to say that VT is in BIG BIG BIG trouble if Leal isn't #1
Won't Motley be a redshirt sophomore?
good question...I was under the impression that this was his first year on campus which would mean next year he'll be a R-Fr...but if this is his second year on campus and this was his R-Fr year (meaning he red shirted last year) you would be correct..he would be a R-So next year.
He was in the 2012 recruiting class I am pretty sure.
Correct, he's a r-SO this upcoming year.
I have no opinion per se on Motley. But other than wishful thinking, how exactly do you come to the conclusion that Motley might be more talented than Leal?
Any speculation based on the notion that Ford (or even Durkin, who is far more physically ready to step onto a div 1 football field) will be anywhere near the same level as Leal (or have an "inherent advantage") in 9 or even 12 months is naive at best.
QBs are coming out of HS a lot more game ready now than they were even 5 years ago. Leal wasn't recruited by Loeffler, but Ford and Durkin were. I would not be surprised if Loeffler designed the offense around the strengths of Ford and Durkin. If Leal has the SAME strengths as Ford and Durkin, then he could more easily be an effective QB in the offense. If Leal does NOT have the same strengths he may struggle to run the offense effectively and could lose the starting job. Motley has spent exactly the same amount of time learning from Loeffler as Leal. From the outside looking in the ONLY advantage that Leal would have over Motley is that he's been around longer. If you think about it, that might actually be a disadvantage since he has to UNLEARN everything that O'cain "taught" him. At least Motley wasn't guided down the wrong path for 3 years before being told everything he's been doing for that time span is dead wrong and he needs to forget everything and move on.
When you take ALLLL of that into consideration, it's not at all unthinkable that Leal might not be the starter. I'm not saying that Leal DEFINITELY WON'T start...I'm saying that it's naive to say Leal "DEFINITELY WILL start and if he doesn't that means VT is in BIG trouble".
Look at everything in front of you. Erase everything in the offense pre-Loeffler. Leal and Motley have exactly the same amount of time in the system. Motley was automatically not going to be the immediate back-up regardless of talent level because he was redshirting. I don't KNOW whether Motley is more talented or not, but it's unreasonable to rule it out.
So, like I said before, don't forget about Motley.
Now, as for the younger guys...They may or may not be game ready. That's for the coaches to determine. But based on what I saw from Leal he's not as talented at the QB position as either of the younger guys. IF (and that's a big if..I'm no ball coach) Loeffler decides to design an offense around the skillset of one of the younger guys that will put Leal in a tough spot to be competitive. Why would Loeffler do that you ask? Well, he designed an offense around the skills of LT, so it's not unreasonable to think that's what he'll do again. But does he really want to do that 3 years in a row? I hope not. It's going to be tough to run a competitive offense every year if you have to redesign it for different style athletes every year. I imagine he would rather design it for the future, around the younger guys, and then continue recruiting similar players so 3, 5, 10 years from now he can just plug players into the system. To me, that makes a lot more sense than changing the system to fit the random athletes that you have on your roster every year.
It's really not THAT naive. Let's look at Leal when he was recruited and compare that to Ford and Durkin (just for simplicity we'll use the rankings from 247 and Rivals, not the best sources I'll grant you but anyway). Leal was the 28th QB-DT in his recruiting year and was just barely in Florida's top 100 players coming in at 97.
Andrew Ford is ranked as the 40th QB-PP by 247 and the 26th player in Pennsylvania (please note that he won the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state, though). Rivals likes him a little more, listing him as the 27th pro-style qb and the 16th overall best player in PA. He also went to the Elite 11 final camp as one of 14 QBs invited but didn't earn one of the 11 spots once there.
Chris Durkin is rated the 17th best pro-style QB by 247 and the 15th by Rivals while both have his as the 20th best player out of Ohio this year.
So, if we took all 3 of them straight out of high school and went straight by the numbers it would be Durkin > Ford > Leal.
The argument for Leal is that he's been the backup for a couple years now and has more in-game experience. While that is true, you can't evade the fact that Leal will only have had one more season of good coaching at the collegiate level than either of our incoming QBs (we can just write off whatever the heck O'Cain was supposed to be teaching him) and in practice he was only taking back-up reps because he was the back up. Before the UCLA game he was 3/4 for 25 yards only seeing playing time against Western Carolina. In 2012 he was 4/6 for 26 yards against Austin Peay. Back in 2011 he was 9/13 for 153 yards and 2 TDs against App State. So in his career he's 28/48 for 334, 2 TDs and 2 INTs.
Yes, he's been the back up for 3 years now. But, I say again, he's only had one year of good solid coaching and even then he was only receiving back-up snaps, not the same as for LT3 and in his one real in game experience he showed NOTHING to say the he's got the job locked down. Ultimately, though, anything can happen over the course of spring practice and fall camp and I think we've got a great QB competition ahead of us.
So, ultimately what I've taken a really long time to try to say is that it's not "naive" to think that someone else could come in and win the job when the guys we've got currently haven't done a thing to prove that they're capable of taking the reigns.
leg!
I agree with your point, but Ford is actually pretty highly rated on 247sports; you were looking at the composite ranking which takes into account useless recruiting services like ESPN. He is actually 18th pro-style on there.
Woops, so I was. Being sick and looking up football stats doesn't work well for me....then again maybe it's the bourbon...
Bunk...there are over 2 dozen programs that started Freshman QB's this year and had pretty effective results, and they were not highly-rated recruits either. VT is in big, big trouble IF Leal is more effective than the two guys coming in because he is not good.
24 True Freshman? or a mix of True & Redshirt Freshman?
I'm not doubting your statement but there is a big difference between R-Fr & T-Fr.
Really? TWO dozen? So 20% of FBS teams started true frosh and they had pretty effective results? How many of these were in the ACC? Let's see, that would be...ZERO. In fact, I think Winston was the only r-FR starter.
I'm calling total BS here.
Why? Because a senior who has been in the program for 4+ years is more effective than a kid who has been in the offense one semester maximum? That makes zero sense.
This thread isn't about how "big time" a recruit is. If it was, we would be talking about Travon McMillian. He is technically our highest rated QB recruit in this class, but we aren't. We are looking at the QB's that fit Loeffler's desired system, and those guys are Durkin and Ford.
Truth. IMO McMillian & Motley would've had the best shot to start under the old staff / system where improvisation and scrambling were vital to any kind of success in the passing game.
Really? They're totally different players, so how could they both be a fit for Loeffler's desired system?
Folks are clearly desperate when trying to spin that a couple of nice, but not off-the-charts, talents could start QB at a major college program as a true freshman with anything less than disastrous results for the team -- and the player.
I think it's quite wrong to think it's autodisaster TM, as you claim.
A redshirt Fr is normally better but, autodisaster, nah, it makes you sound like Chicken Little shouting"The sky is falling."
Suboptimal? Probably but not autodisaster.
Ford and Durkin are both QB's that wouldn't have given Virginia Tech a second thought with O'Cain as the QB Coach and Stinespring as the O. Coordinator. They are a step up from Leal who was a good passer in HS but hasn't shown the ability to handle college defenses, and a big step up from the QB's we would otherwise be recruiting this year. I'm not trying to insult Leal's abilities but he wasn't even in Rivals' Top100 for the state of Florida in 2010. Parker & Motley are examples of the kinds of QBs we were recruiting under the old staff... projects who were raw athletes that the coaches hoped could be molded into a Mike Vick or Tyrod Taylor type QB. Ford is the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Pennsylvania as a passer. Durkin is a big pro-style QB in the mold of Hogan from Stanford and had offers from half the Big Ten, They're both borderline 3/4 star type players while Leal was a firm 3.
Actually Leal wasn't much below Durkin and Ford as national recruit. Leal was the 28th rated dual threat by Rivals/ #81 QB by Scout. Durkin is the Rivals 16th rated pro style/#17 QB by Scout. Ford is the Rivals 27th rated pro-style/#53 QB by Scout.
The point isn't that Leal is going to be an All-American or that Durkin/Ford can't be be quality starters or better eventually. The point is that neither of the incoming guys is such an overwhelming talent that they are going to be ready to start in 9 months -- let alone over r-Sr (albeit a flawed one).
Also, I don't know if you pay that much attention to recruiting rankings but they end up not meaning sh*t in the end. Darren Evans was a 3-star guy, and he set records as a freshman. Being a "big-time" recruit means very, very little until they step on the field.
Plus, how do you know Leal is the best and only option? Have you seen Motley play? Durkin? Ford? Shoot, even Bucky? And furthermore, how much exactly have you seen Leal play? Not enough to say he's the hands-down starter for next year that's for sure.
If recruiting rankings were accurate, would we even be talking about turning our legit 4 star QB recruit into a tight end?
If they were so accurate, Bucky would be the front runner for the job next year and we wouldn't even be talking about Ford or Leal.
or turning the #1 TE recruit into a QB?
Pretty dammed good QB, too. Just imagine if he had the right coaching from the start...
projected TE. Everyone seems to forget he played 2 years of QB in high school
still the #1 TE recruit
Thank you for your opinion but this is mostly innacurate. Sparty liked Durkin a lot and they are currently an elite BIG talent. Ford won the #1 player of the year in PA and was an Elite 11 QB. They arent Andrew Luck, but they sure as hell are not low level recruits..
Right...Durkin was the top QB in Michigan State's class...they were definitely upset when they lost him to us. In fact, they were making comments that he would be the guaranteed starter as a true freshman once he got to Blacksburg.
That's what's got me so excited. He's so good, and he's still not the Guaranteed (with a capital G) starter.
Ford looks to have great leadership skills though, which will give him an edge over Durkin. Also Ford will be on campus very soon. Another edge over Durkin. The real question is: Can Brendan Motley or Mark Leal use their experience to put their mark on the offense?
Exactly, they aren't Andrew Luck (who didn't play a true-Fr by the way).
They are what they are...nice recruits who, given time, could develop into quality starters (or better). They are not certainly not of the caliber to be lining up under center 9 months from now.
My brother is a Spartan. Trust me when I say that while the MSU fanbase wishes they hadn't lost Durkin, it generally wasn't particularly concerned about losing him.
I'm sorry, but I seriously don't believe you pay much attention to recruiting. That's all I'll say - everyone else in this thread has pretty much said it all.
I have to disagree...at least on Ford. No one wins Gatorade Player of the Year in a state and goes to the Elite 11 and doesn't have something. Look at the guys film and his stats. I think you are off on Leal. Also, look at the Sugar Bowl last night. Trevor Knight, a redshirt freshman just tore up the defending national champs.
Knight is 6'3" and 195 lbs....Ford is 6'3" and 198 lbs. They both run a 4.6.
I don't have a problem with Ford and Durkin redshirting, but to to think in todays college football landscape that a true freshman can't succeed is just wrong.
IF we can get the running game going, it will take alot of pressure off the Hokie QB. Now, thats a big IF...
I think the ceiling is higher with Ford or Durkin, so you might as well go for it. Of course, Ford needs to beat out Leal fair and square.
As legit of a point as this may be, let's not forget that even Andrew Luck redshirtted his freshman year. I'm all for giving the young guys a fair shot, but let's not be too quick to toss guys into the fire.
Sorry but I'm pretty positive that leal didnt get invited to the the elite 11 competition like Ford. Ford is definently a higher regarded prospect than leal ever was, and he's the type guy the lefty wants
Yes Ford got invited to his Local Elite 11 but never made the full cut although he traveled to other Elite 11 camps to try and get it.
Ford went to the national Elite 11 competition. 14 QBs were selected to participate.
http://blog.pennlive.com/pa-recruiting/2013/04/andrew_ford.html
http://www.varsitypreps.com/2013-elite-11-quarterback-preview-video/
Whabam. Facts.
High five and a +1.
I think you're thinking of Durkin..Durkin went to his local one but didn't go any further
I take it we've given up on Bucky being a QB and will most likely be moving positions? I haven't seen anything confirming that fact, but I haven't seen him brought up in conversations.
He played TE on the scout team for about the last 3/4 of the year (pretty much since the UNC game). Add to that the fact that we recruited 2 QBs to go along with Leal and Motley, and you can pretty much see the writing on the wall for Bucky's QB chances. Also, he had some pretty major mechanical issues in the Fall. He would've needed a lot of work to become an effective passer. Motley looked much more polished, even coming out of a wing-T offense in high school.
Plus, from what I've read and heard, Hodges has looked very good at TE catching the ball, running after the catch, and blocking. That's a recipe for solid playing time at a position that needs a TE with his measurables.
Lefty needs big TEs who can run good routes, catch the ball, get yards after the catch, and block when called upon. That opens up the kind of offense Lefty wants to run. Cline, Malleck, Hodges, and Burke fill that bill. Redman is a very good blocking TE. I'm not sure what's happening with Dakota Jackson.
As far as QBs go, I think the handwriting is on the wall that Leal will NOT be the starter in the Fall. I think Motley will take the lead this Spring unless Ford can beat him out. Durkin arrives in the Fall and has looked very good in practice (passing and running) for one of the post-season all-star games.
I believe we end up starting motley but will play durkin for red zone packages. Ford will challenge big time for 2015. He just isn't physical enough to take the beating yet. It will be a similar year as 2008 from the qb position. The freshman can't take the pounding and we would be unwise to subject their development to it 100% of the snaps.
Disagree on the reason being Ford can't take the pounding. The guy is 198 lbs. Trevor Knight who beat Alabama last night is 195lbs. It comes down to toughness sometimes.
I am not saying Ford wins the job, but if he doesn't it isn't necessarily because he can't take the pounding, but more likely because he isn't mentally ready for the job of being a QB as far as reading defenses, making his progression's etc.
How in the world can you predict Durkin as the red zone QB?
First off, the Hokies haven't traditionally been a team that switches out QB's in the redzone. The guy has not even signed his LOI yet and is not even on campus. Yet somehow he is annointed the redzone QB?
key word there...."traditionally" and this is why CFB hired a whole new coaching staff. We were getting stuck in the "traditional" category and he wanted to make a change. I think CFB saved a couple years of coaching by this huge change, yes it was late but well needed.
I wouldn't be surprised with our awful redzone offense to see a little wrinkle. Maybe not every time we get there but he did run it at UF with Tebow and if we don't have to burn a freshmen's Redshirt for the package why not add 3-4 plays in. It can't be that hard.
Loeffler isn't going to pull any punches this year. He will use the pieces he has to give the team a chance to win. I am not discounting Ford at all I just think Durkin may have some tools in his toolbox thatcan be utilized in certain situations i.e. red Zone opportunities. I am basing that off of the style of each from the limited film on durkin and more extensive film on Ford. If you want to talk traditional, we were traditionally a 10 win team for almost decade. Changes have been made to get us back there.
Lets all agree to disagree...I say we turn Ford, Durkin, Leal, Motley, and Bucky into tight ends and run a new hybrid 5 TE offense....with Sam Rogers at QB.
Think big...we can change the landscape of college football.
Sounds like a perverted version of the elephant package.
For my two cents, I think the competition is between Leal, Motley, and Ford with the edge to Motley or Ford. I think Durkin gets red-shirted period. The late start (fall enrollment) will keep him out of the competition this year.
Are we sure he is not coming in the spring? I thought I heard he was trying to enter spring semester, but I may be wrong.
Motley
I'd also like to point out that while one of the freshmen may indeed win the starting job, players benefit tremendously from a redshirt year. Winston, Manziel, even Vick are examples.
Also, in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers sat for two full years before even taking a meaningful snap.
Right but they red-shirted because the guy in front of them had actual playing time and significant minutes. We literally are starting from scratch, but this time Leal has seen the playbook
Leal has neither actual playing time or significant minutes aside from UCLA.
It doesn't matter whether or not you've seen the playbook if you can't implement it.
I honestly think Leal doesn't have a chance. Based on this year, I think Lefty spent all his QB time with LT because he had no other options, and spent very little with Leal.
Come next year, Lefty will have a couple guys that fit his system. I think he would rather spend the time grooming those kids and getting them experience, then waste a year on a Kid who will be gone. It's a bum deal for Leal, but sometimes that's how it goes.
To me this is by far the most sensible post. Not to knock on anyone else's perspective or Leal's abilities but if he is our starting QB next season, I will lose all faith in our offensive direction.
We went all in on LT3 this yr and if he doesn't get hurt against UCLA Leal doesn't play at all. I still believe Leal is a good QB, he managed the game well and moved the chains for the most part given the environment. Forget meaningful snaps, consider almost getting ZERO snaps at all and then getting your number called in a bowl game when u've probably mentally closed the book on the season (I didn't even believe another human being could remove LT3 from the field). It's hard to be prepared; you don't get better at practice you get better in the game. I wouldn't completely assess his capabilities on one game, we learned not to do that with LT3 himself.
With all that and what not, if you are a new coach looking to establish your identity on a program, you need to move forward and start preparing for your future NOW. By starting a RS senior next year AGAIN, you're kicking the can down the road another year and this does not make any sense at all. Unless Leal projects to be championship QB next year (which for all my faith in his abilities I believe he is not) there is no point in starting him for one year. Take your knocks with the guy you believe in and get better going forward.
When will people learn that going "All-in" just sets you up for failure? :)
Not if your hand is strong.
Let's not forget that it is possible that Leal improves a lot during the offseason. While everyone says "backups should practice like starters", the truth is that there is a big difference between being the face of a program and being the guy who signals in the plays.
Now that Logan is out of the picture, how will Leal respond? If it's "business as usual" for him, I expect he'll get passed over. If he really motivates and puts in the work and improves, he could win the position and allow Durkin and Ford to redshirt.
I agree with this but I was very underwhelmed with Leal, even with him getting thrown into the fire. I think if Ford or Durkin has 1 year under Lefty, as Leal has, they would have performed better. Starters have a way of showing up for a game in bad situations. I remember Tyrod burning his redshirt against LSU. We got our ass kicked but I think everyone came away knowing that Tyrod was going to be the guy. I just didn't have that same feeling with Leal.
I do wish him the best though. He's put in the time and put in the effort to get the chance. If he does start it will be because he should. Lefty's going to play the guy he thinks will win.
Tyrod was something else though. Not saying it is or isn't fair to compare QBs to him. It's just something to consider.
I get what you're saying though but I think a starter rises to the challenge. When Logan came in to make that one throw against Miami, he made it. I know it was a tough situation but I think there would have been some spark, or highlight there to demonstrably say: "Yeah, this Leal kid. It was a tough game but I can see him getting it done."
I just didn't get that feeling. Maybe others did though.
I think we're on the same page.
Leal's appearance wasn't promising, but wasn't a big enough sample size to completely dismiss him from consideration as a starter.
If the Ford ain't work'n, then put in Durkin.
that made me