One of the more interesting NIL deals we've heard this week, and more are coming. As @JRsBBQ likes to say, business just picked up: https://t.co/wx16qN1PkG https://t.co/zW44H1PQtB— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) July 6, 2021
This is going to interesting to see if any other teams follow this up. Where is Smithfield foods to do this for Tech?
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And just like that, recruiting publicly became a game of which team has the best endorsements
It's not like the same 6 teams don't already sign half of all 5 stars each year. But the thought that 1/2 teams will sign all of them doesn't work because are a bunch of 4/5 stars going to want to become depth and special team players while they wait to start each year? This just like all other things in college football will reach a median point.
Oh its already been there, but now the capitalist arms race is officially on. Recruiting is going to come down to them dolla dolla bills. Whoever's scholarship comes with the most money in guaranteed endorsements get the players. And now that its public, the prices these kids are going to get paid on some teams are going to soon outpace that which minor leagues offer athletes in some professional sports.
Mind you, all of this while these kids are getting free educations while their fellow students are signing up for a lifetime of debt just to go to school, but that's a whole other debate.
Says a lot about priorities.
I'm thinking college sports have jumped the shark.
Priorities or level playing field?
There were/are students at VT and other schools with full ride scholarships. They can go intern in their field and make money every summer, sometime even during the school year. Engineering student? Here's $4k this summer for a month's worth of work. Student athlete? Sorry, compliance.
A week ago, VT student athletes couldn't intern with the Dallas Cowgirls, or work on marketing deals like they would as professional athletes. Mid-2000's, Oklahoma players were "working" at a car dealership, getting paid, and they of course used their names to sell cars. Now they can without penalty, or sponsor the car dealership.
Re: Oklahoma, crappy record keeping meant Rhett Bomar and a couple other players had to pay back "overpaid" pay stubs to stay in compliance.
The first half of the comment is completely irrelevant to the second half. Yea, student debt is a huge problem. Doesn't mean we should cap the earning potential for athletes.
Just further punctuates that these public institutions that receive a ton of public funding are really only concerned with making a profit and not about the well being of the students which the institution is supposed to serve
Hot take: this will result in a more level playing field (overall) within the P5. It will be more lucrative for a 4-star to be a starter on a middle of the pack P5 team than a depth player on an Alabama, OSU, etc.
It will take 2-3 years for the market to stabilize, so I think we'll some wild shit between now and then (hokiecamel alluded to this below, but businesses are going to learn that your 3rd string long snapper isn't worth $6k), but in the next 5-10 years, we'll see a much more even playing field.
Yeah, this is going to end up like Formula 1 where the best teams get the best sponsors, which allow them to have more money to spend on staying the best team. And probably moreso because the best teams already have ridiculous spending limits compared to everyone else, and now these NIL endorsements are only going to further the gap between the haves and the have nots because its going to be a larger pool of money that will go straight to the players without the team needing to change their spending habits.
And to further that F1 comparison, Alabama is effectively going to have the NIL branding of Mercedes while someone like VT is going to get the NIL branding of Williams.
If we're going for pinball manufacturers, I'd love a good Stern sponsorship.
Oof, imagining our future Williams-esque NIL hurts. That'd be like our starting QB getting $500 from Volume Two.
Don't worry, everything is fine because there's a chance we might be able to sign our own diamond in the rough, just like a George Russell, and that person would take us to great heights! (in reality, GR only went there because there was no room at Mercedes and they just needed to loan him somewhere for a couple years before Bottas could be jettisoned and he could be brought into the fold where he would actually reach his potential)
Hah. I have so many snarky comments I want to make about Buzz and Fuente in relation to Russell at Williams, but I'll behave.
I don't know about this, think I tend to agree with Alum
Bag men don't behave (economically) irrational today; I don't know why people think they will suddenly start doing that tomorrow. Obviously, there will be new payers entering the fold, and that's why we'll see some wild fluctuations in the next few years, but I think when the dust settles, no one is going to want to play $10k/year to a kid who is going to be a depth player and could transfer at any time.
if there's something economically rational about dropping cash to bribe a high school senior to sign with a chosen university, i must have missed it.
what's the ROI on "winning"?
I can't tell you want the ROI on winning is, but if you listen to SZD, you'll hear Godfrey talk all the time about how a lot of mid-range 4-stars don't get big bags. Bagmen want to spend money on 'sure things' - most recruits aren't 'sure things'. Additionally, once a player gets on campus, they can transfer. No one wants to invest money into a person who can leave at any point.
To my original point - I think Brock Purdy, Dillon Gabriel, Grayson McCaw, Malik Cunningham, etc all have more name recognition than Kyle McCord (OSU 2nd string QB), Paul Tyson (Bama 2nd string QB), Caleb Williams (OU 2nd String), etc.
I think there's this concern that a T. Boone Pickins type booster will come in and drop $5M across 40 kids. I don't think that will happen, and I don't see any evidence that suggests it will. If T. Boone wanted to do this 10 years ago, he could've. But in the last 10 years, OkSt has had one top 25 class (25th overall in 2011) and two other top 30 classes. They haven't gotten one 5-star in this time. I just don't see any evidence to suggest it will happen.
Is a player currently on your roster significantly more fickle than a high schooler with every school in his ear and still making that decision? and even "sure things" can transfer at a moment's notice now.
I'm sure that those with the money who have made a living working the secret dark underbelly of college recruiting would have no way to grease the wheels on future incentives to keep a kid on the roster while still keeping it quiet enough to not become public.
Given how active the transfer portal is right now, I don't think these people are that good at keeping kids on rosters.
But do they? As fans, we might be surprised when a player enters the portal, but I think coaches tend to know if an important player is unhappy.
are coaches the ones dropping stupid money for NIL or are fans? (inclusive of boosters, etc).
you've banged the "blue chip depth wins titles" drum around here long enough that I don't think you're the only one who realizes that. boosters do too. so why wouldn't someone incentivize Kyle McCord to stick around. Or the WRs at Bama, etc etc. rather than be afraid they'll take the money and transfer?
I'm not seeing the big difference between a bag man dropping cash to try and secure a recruit and a "bag man" legally dropping cash to keep a player around for another year
via GIFER
That's basically my point - Once this goes above board, I don't think we'll see much of a difference in how players are compensated.
At the end of the day, people want a return on their investment (however difficult that might be to quantify). Not everyone is going to have an appetite for risk.
I am still waiting to see if the little guys can collaborate to make real money. Example: An online community develops a non-profit that needs a five star figure head each year. Small $ x Big crowds = Big $
How does it help level the playing field if the programs with all the money (comparatively) still have all the money?
Trickle down sports economics, duh!
I think it raises the floor a lot, and raises the ceiling just a little. My whole argument is that, in a post-NIL world (again, once this market stabilizes), a player will be able to better elevate his brand as a starter at VT than a depth player at Bama. Thus, it will pay better to be a starter at VT than a backup at Bama.
I think the counter-argument is that a T. Boone Pickens-like character will just pay players under the table, and that having an elevated brand won't matter because this ultra-wealthy person will pay players just to have them on the team. My argument is that boosters won't do this; if they wanted to do this, they would've done so already; these people don't give a fuck about the NCAA.
Now, we're introducing a slew of new 'bagmen' who are interested on value to their business, NOT the success of a team. This new money will be spread across the sport more evenly than bagman money was before.
Again - I can't stress this enough - it will take a few years for this market to stabilize, but I do believe we'll get there in under 5 years.
I'm interested to see if this a legit money maker for the business, or just a way for them to redirect money that would be going to the football "program" in the past.
You'd think some players endorsement would be worth more than others. $6k a year doesn't seem worth it to have the 3rd string long snapper repping the company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_Team
and it's not like American Top Team is small either. They train some of the premier martial artists in the world, including current and past titleholders at UFC.
I imagine the value isn't in getting a 3rd string long snapper to endorse, but in having the entirety of the team repping and not being the ones to differentiate/negotiate between players. especially if it takes the form of a jersey patch or something.
Is corporate advertising on collegiate uniforms explicitly banned? Because if its not, its only a matter of time before at least soccer teams get their main sponsor, and some lesser sports in terms of popularity (lacrosse, softball, baseball) start looking like european hockey teams, especially if the players can get a cut of the proceeds.
i saw a tweet saying NIL jersey patches would be in-bounds, which is probably different set of rules than corporate sponsorships of the program directly on the jersey. i'll see if i can dig it up
Would conferences, schools and Nike/Adidas/UA allow that?
The tweet i saw was specifically about a B1G school allowing jersey patches as part of NIL, but i can't find it now and can't remember which school and not gonna scroll back through 5 days of twitter timeline. i just tweeted the VT Compliance account asking
edit:
Wonder how much wiggle room there is if a NIL endorsement for a brand is included with a scholarship, and whether or not that could be a loophole for official advertising on uniforms.
seriously... especially in basketball with shoe deals. Drop some sick Nike design for some signature Zions that he exclusively wears during his one-and-done year at Duke.
The Zion Duke exclusives are out!
I don't think any school is allowing the use of uniforms or team facilities as part of students NIL contracts.
Exactly. How long until some small school realizes they can get better players by allowing some sort of patch or whatever.
Then we end up in a situation where the schools fight the conference for the right to put patches and whatnot on the jersey and the players fight the school, i.e. "I'm not playing unless my sponsor is on my jersey."
This could get weird and fast.
Maybe one day we'll have "pay players" like racing has "pay drivers". Teams start giving scholarships to players who already have sponsors lined up, players get a start over a slightly-better teammate to bring in additional ad revenue, etc. Wouldn't it be interesting to see a bunch of 4- and 5-stars trying to out-bribe Bama with sponsorship cash?
So looks like NCAA rules and some states NIL laws won't allow it.
makes me wonder what he is up to now.
last seen in the XFL after bouncing around practice squads. he was third string behind tyrod in buffalo at one point
He's an OSU nostalgia-fueled influencer these days. Has a podcast with Beanie Wells if I remember correctly.
This doesn't feel like the intent of the NIL. This should not be considered payment for their likeness, specifically as announced in this fashion. These players are not being paid for their image and likeness. They are being paid for being a Miami football player which I thought would be not allowed.
I understand players will be paid for being at a certain school, but I didn't think a company or person would blatantly announce that is why the players are getting paid.
All they really have to do is make one or two posts on instagram promoting the business and boom NIL is satisfied
Why wouldn't they? NCAA allows it, lawyers verify it's allowed, schools use it to attract talent, companies use it to sell stuff. These schools are businesses, not charities, no matter their non-profit status.
But being a Miami football player is part of their "image". Just like Michael Jordan being a basketball player is part of his "image". You can't separate those things.
Being a football player is their image. Miami has their own Intellectual property. For Jordan, the Bulls were adjacent to his brand.
Also, I think teams/athletic departments are going to want a cut of the 'team wide' endorsements. After all, there's only a few individuals who bring the team significant value.
True, but for most fans, I'd wager that the Air brand is still (sub-)conciously associated to the Bulls/Tarheels.
Tarheels - 1000%, but that's because carolina blue has been a staple of the Jordan line for two decades now. Bulls aren't the same.
I guess Jordan is probably too big of a name to be a good comparison. But it still matters what school the players are at for the businesses that want to sponsor them. This place is essentially sponsoring Miami football as a whole, but paying the players directly, instead of (or in addition to) a sponsorship of the actual program. I don't see anything wrong with that. Is that a smart business investment? We'll find out, but that's a decision for the businesses to make.
Really??! I am not the least bit surprised that Miami is the first one to do this.
I mean I'd love to sign an endorsement with a BBQ company that would be the tits.
Full team sponsorship by the Virginia Beef Corporation
edit: quick google, turns out they actually sell sod which is very confusing as to why they wouldn't be the Virginia Sod Corporation. http://www.virginiabeef.com/
Can upperclassmen athletes be sponsored by alcoholic beverages?
I'm pretty sure that Bud Ice penguin wasn't 21 so should be fine (emperor penguins only live to about 20)
Bud Ice Light was my go to in college. Miss it dearly.
I just puked a little.
Signed: a college era Southpaw drinker.
Um...
Virginia Beef Corp is a just a cooler name, though the existing Smithfield Lineage would work
This opens a whole new can of worms, I could do for a surge sponsorship and Smithfield and I'd be set for life. Throw in a little Debbie logo on the seat of my pants and I'd be dead by 28
Two things I wonder about as we enter this new brand of chaos:
1. How much will giving to the program drop? If I am a billionaire alum, I am pretty sure paying players to come to VT is the best bang for my buck but paying for marketability is probably pretty low. If overall giving drops, how is that shortfall addressed?
2. How much extra time is an athlete going to have to dedicate to managing his/her own brand and commitments that come with it? How will low lifes take advantage of athletes that can't have representation?
Kids will be tweeting/instagramming like normal, except they'll have a t-shirt that says "Buzz & Ned's BBQ", or end their tweet with "This tweet was sponsored by Cookout".
That may be what they think they will need to do but I assume there will be significantly more time dedicated to it than that. At the very least there are contracts to be made. There will also be other appearances. I have to think it will be an addiction that can overwhelm a person quickly.
You beat me to the first question. I think it is going to have a big impact on schools, etc. Corporations might have a set amount for giving, they aren't going to increase that most likely just shift where the money is going.
How does corporate tax law work related to marketing versus non-profit donation?
That is another good question.
Donations will drop sharply, IMO. People don't donate money to pro sports teams. Spencer Rattler will earn 6-7 figures this year in NIL. Why should I help subsidize his scholarship again?
Tax benefits?
Also, interesting to see if this will cut down on the arms race. Who needs a new weight room every 3 years if you can take advantage of NIL?
There is definitely truth to this. I think this guy with the MMA gyms that is doing this for the players was a Miami booster. Now that he is paying 500k+ a year to the team do you think his donations to Miami will remain the same? Schools now have to compete for boosters money, at least those with businesses that can sign up players to NIL deals. There will be less money for the schools with boosters spending money on the players while also benefiting with the exposure for their business.
I wonder how long it might be for an NIL deal to pay for school for a player. Could we free up scholarships by having top players with big NIL deals pay their own way?
Has anyone heard of a VT player (in any sport) signing a deal yet?
I am curious how this is going to play out. It think the athlete everyone is saying is going to bank the most is that gymnast that has something like 3+ million Instagram followers. However she should have been banking anyway with that many followers, but now she can do it and still play college sports.
Couple with Barstool, including the mens bball transfer. Tre Turner signed with someone else and I think another football player has one as well. Been posting them to the other thread as I see them announced.
Jordan Williams signed with "Playmaker Brand" and is selling T-Shirts:
https://playmakerbrand.com/collections/tees/products/jordan-williams-bla...
Good news for Jordan Williams. It will take time for things to shake out, but this type of deal thrown in with some Instagram endorsements is the type of deal that I think we'll see with most players.
Tre signed with Yoke gaming.
There is a women's lax player with a huge instagram following because ummmm.. well anyway, She can monetize that now.
Who? Asking for a friend...
Kennedy Lynch.
This is going to be a mess when all said and done. Jamie Newman going to UGA was a chance to win a title. Currently there are 5-6 schools that could lure away a QB to make a legit title run (UGA, Bama, OU, OSU, Clemson, LSU). Now any school can offer cash for a player to transfer.
If the starting QB at Oregon makes $50k and there is an opening then people not making 50k will be interested.
I'm definitely on the edge of my seat seeing how wacky this will get.
Technically it's moved from "our school can get you drafted higher and thus make more money later" to "our school can offer you money now". Six in one hand, half dozen in the bush is worth two in the I forgot what I was saying.
Exactly as I expected. Some massive booster who dgaf about the actual 'return on investment' is going to plow a shitload of his closely or solely held company's 'marketing' budget into trying to buy a natty. I'm appalled with myself that I didn't predict that it would be the U that lights this whole thing on fire first.
Money laundering happens in Virginia too. Don't lose hope.
Not at the same levels though. Texas is about to be on another level in recruiting
This is going to be a largely unregulated shit show.
When has the NCAA not been an unregulated shit show?
Well...this escalated quickly...do we have enough stop-ins to get a couple of five stars? Holy shit....i thought (naively) this would
be more of guys/gals getting money to sign autographs, maybe being big enough to get a small cut of their Jersey sales, making an appearance at a car dealership for pictures...but what in the hell was I thinking?!!!! Let us officially open "the rabbit hole deeper than SMUs pockets in 1983"....I'm all for it if it's done right but man I don't know...I really just don't know
How long until the NCAA implements a rule that if you accept a sponsor you can't transfer? I am still not sure the NCAA is going to sulk back into the corner without returning fire on this issue.
I am also interested in what system is going to have to be put in place to make sure Uncle Sam gets his cut. How many of those players at Miami are planning on spending that 6K, not realizing that US wants a portion.
you'd think sponsorship contracts for local establishments would have some sort of clause wherein the payments would void or maybe even that a player would need to repay if they transfer
Oh I can't wait to see the shitshow that will explode the first time a business tries to recoup NIL money from an athlete because they decided to transfer
you gotta think someone will write it into a contract a kid isn't paying attention to when he signs
"five hundred a month to tweet about your boxer briefs? aight bet"
Wouldn't that go against the you can't pay a player NIL money to go to an institution? I thought that was a rule
Assuming they don't make more than $12,550 a year, they won't owe any taxes...right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deduction
Having to pay taxes is not that big of a deal. Every college student who works at a dining hall has to pay taxes, and they're doing just fine with it. This is slightly more complicated, since it's not going to be automatically deducted, but if the schools can't help athletes take care of that, then they probably have bigger issues.
The school can educate but I can't see them formally helping with individual tax returns.
"Man these tax returns can be COMPLICATED. I don't know what I'd do without the good folks at Johnson & Jackson Accounting. The CPAs are so friendly and easy to work with. Stop by their offices in Roanoke and Christiansburg and tell 'em Tayvion sent you!"
It is a great endorsement opportunity. But, I think the trick is not spending the portion of cash Uncle Sam has his eye on. Pros screw it up, so I think some college kids could too.
Assuming athletes only have endorsements because they cant get other jobs they would have to file quarterly (unlike they people working at the dinning halls that get taxes taken out).
I do not know the tax code on endorsements but they count as income, and athletes technically work in multiple states (again not sure how endorsements apply here) so they might have to file in multiple states.
There is a lot of nuances with the tax code that probably makes this a lot different than working a job that hands you a W2.
I don't think there are that many nuances other than maybe having to file in multiple states for the amount of income most athletes will be making.
This NIL thing.....it's going to get messy.
Once I heard the news about NIL I couldn't wait to see bullshit coming out of those pearl clutching because "MuH tAx WrItE oFfS", damn the entertainment came quicker than expected.
Also love seeing the "No Regulation" crowd, what we saw before was regulation. Hmmm.... 🤔 THONKS.
So, I'm a little curious about this, American Top Team is the most well known MMA gym in the world, has like 50% of the UFC's roster, ok maybe thats an exaggeration, but they have a LOT of UFC fighters as well as Bellator, PFL, etc. Wonder why they need to spend $540k on marketing when their top fighters like Dustin Poirier are always giving them shout outs on social media. I guess maybe it's just to reach more eyes. Will the players be able to wear any sort of sponsorship logo on their helmets or uniform?
They think there's value in it, of some sort. They money, their decision...
It's a splashy Miami guy doing bagman shit out in the open. I doubt he cares about 'reaching more eyes'.
Yeah, i think there is a big assumption that groups willing to throw money at high school age kids are acting rationally in any way to begin with. I'm sure some people are doing a cost-benefit analysis, but I'm just as sure that plenty of others aren't.
Yep. Its not like those who were funding bagman shit are suddenly going to start acting clean. They're just going to continue it in the public eye because it isn't against the rules anymore.
Hell, it will probably lead to more money getting thrown around because you don't have to worry about covering your tracks anymore.
Also interesting that he gave it only to football team, Miami Basketball not a thing?
I mean, people care a lot more about Miami football than basketball. I don't think it's more complicated than that.
Read where he said he is a diehard U fan and wants to bring the U bak. Tired of 15 years of mediocrity. Figures paying the players will get better players to the U. He is apparently recruiting other businesses to get into his new company he is setting up on the side purely to funnel money to the players.
Also hired the lawyer who helped write the Florida NIL law to make sure he stays legit with this enterprise.
The hiring of the lawyer first was probably smart. But this is the part that will hurt recruiting, not that Miami needed that much help. Why come to tech, if going to Miami gets you the scholarship plus ~10K a year just for being on the team.
I wonder how air network air time / exposure will begin to factor in to the NIL deals... seems like it will further increase leverage for entities like ESPN...
UCF women's basketball just signed a whole team deal with a junk hauling company.
There's a dirty joke in there somewhere