BREAKING: Virginia Tech #Hokies Freshmen DE Alec Bryant and DE Robert Wooten have officially entered the NCAA Transfer Portal, per @247Sports— Matej Sis (@MatejS247) July 12, 2021
It's all love with Virginia Tech. This is just what's best for me. pic.twitter.com/CuBcbOxyVl— Rob (@RobjayyW) July 12, 2021
Wooten's tweet sounds interesting. Hope there's nothing bad going on at home.
Similar statement from Bryant
I want to thank VT for everything , with a heavy heart I have decided to enter the transfer portal and move on to a different path this has nothing to do with my coaches or the program but this is the best thing to do for me and my future. #GODBLESS— Alec Bryant $ (@ABXCVIII) July 12, 2021
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Comments
Well ain't that a kick in the nuts...
I don't know how to feel. We were happy to get them. But then don't have a body of work to assess. Hopefully, it's just a processed out situation. But, I'm ready for disappointment.
LOL. With our (zero) depth at DE, this wasn't a "processed" out situation. If it was, the head coach is more mediocre than I thought
I'm going to ignore this and go back to watch the Ramon Brown film.
At some point the D Tapp loss was going to catch up to us
I'm gonna blame French for cursing us with good news.
my fault
Not sure that is the conclusion here as they state they wanted to be there so did the coaches. That would rule out D tapp as a factor here
Agreed. That was my initial reaction based on the original post. Seems like there is mor going on here.
I think you did this wrong. You are supposed to dig out their commitment threads from 2 years ago and comment on those.... /s.
This feels like bad news....
Not good for depth. Not surprised about Bryant, but I am surprised about Wooten, who got on the field with regularity last season.
Yeah, Coleman pointed out Wooten saw action in 11 games, Bryant 1. Also pointed out all 3 DE from 2020 are gone.
That class is going down about as well as it was received at the time so far. Top 4 recruits from that class all transferred (Bryant, Wooten, Saunders, Beadles). To be fair, two early hits it seems with Dorian Strong and Keonta Jenkins. Time will tell on the rest (Pene, Moore, Brunson, Wright, Clements, Lee, Rudolph, Bailey, jr., and Hampton).
I would be more worried if it was a few years ago and the portal didn't exist. But, the 2020 class certainly still has some potential left
"I accept responsibility and will move on to a different path"
Sounds like it mighta been out of Wooten's control
Would love to know the story behind that note.
#TX2Portal
Seriously though, this is why a pipeline movement halfway across the country like that was never going to be sustainable. Sure we can snag a few recruits here and there, but it won't be anything we can build the bulk of our roster with. I think the staff may have figured this out and got the message with the renewed emphasis on VA recruiting this cycle.
Oh for fuck's sake. Can there ever be good news without bad news immediately following?
JFC
Jersey Fried Chicken.
I have no idea why but this made me chuckle out loud, which in text format translates to LMAO
Gross.
this makes me sad
oof
from a selfish perspective this is why i've stopped caring about the offseason, which will inevitably turn in to not caring... not caring as much at least.
The thing I loved (past tense) about CFB was that you generally had 4+ year commitments from the players and got invested in watching them grow and contribute. With the transfer portal, and now the NIL rules, we're just witnessing us getting one small step closer to the NFL minor leagues except the players aren't bound to any contracts and there is zero expectation when someone signs that they'll even show-up for a single snap.
I think this is pretty true. I will still pay attention, I will still rejoice when recruits pick us, I will still hope guys don't jump to the portal, HOWEVER there will HAVE to be a pretty major shift in the way we (the fans) think about college football and the players attached to the program. I, too, always pointed to the progressive realization of potential as the main factor why I fervently follow college football vs professional football (in which I never put much stock into). It will certainly take away some of that for me but I'll still support as much as I can the guys that choose to come and play for us (whether for 4/5 years or just 1)
#VT2TX
Interesting to say the least.
I thought this was already bad from a football perspective, but I hope this isn't even worse from a personal perspective.
This statement leads me to believe there is some sort of family issue and he feels the need to be closer to home.
Timing is odd too, transferring a month prior to camp seems really odd, most teams have probably handed out most of their scholarships. I hope all is ok with him.
This reads to me like a family issue. It sucks but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Is Justin Fuente the unluckiest man on earth? Like, literally every time there is any good news out of Blacksburg 'bad news' says "hold my beer". And bad news is crushing good news these days...ugh
That's making a big assumption that he is not a factor in these events.
some people make their own luck
via GIPHY
Both Wooten and Bryant said this wasn't about coaches or the program. If you're not gonna believe them about this, who can you believe?
Amen, came here to say the same.
Another year another group of transfers
At this point I really just don't care anymore. This coaching staff has used up every last ounce of the benefit of the doubt in my eyes. I need to see the wins.
I don't give CJF too much benefit of the doubt either. But there's not much doubt in a statement by the player that says "this has nothing to do with the coaches and the program. This is where I wanted to be. This is because of an issue that was out of their hands and mine. I accept responsibility and will move on to a different path"
You've made grouchy posts for about 3 years now. Saying you don't care is a little disingenuous, right?
The team has continued a downward trend to complete mediocrity if not flat out bad football far, far below the standard that existed 10-15 years ago for 3 years now. My apologies if pointing it out makes you sad.
It's a matter of the sheer volume of negative and/or antagonistic comments. That's what many people in the community are reacting negatively towards.
So it isn't Year Zero for you?
This is another Micro/Macro conversation. In a vacuum, this might be a one-off. However, when you zoom out, it's a trend.
Existence of a macro trend doesn't inherently mean these instances fit the reasoning/narrative/etc.
"VT has issues with attrition" isn't inconsistent with "Wooten and Bryant said it wasn't about coaches or the program", but "we don't know that Fuente didn't run them off" certainly is inconsistent with "Wooten and Bryant said it wasn't about coaches or the program"
"Fuente doesn't have issues with attrition" conflicts with having a developmental g5 recruit as QB #2 and losing to Wake and being dominated physically by Pitt. That's the bottom line.
in this thread: lots of people worried about DE depth, lots of people hoping the situation is okay, lots of speculatin' about whether or not the two young men are straight up lying in their portal announcement tweets
not in this thread: anyone saying "Fuente doesn't have issues with attrition"
Do you really need to ask.
if it wasn't me, it would have been you 💁♂️
Nope I made a commitment to not respond directly to that poster after last season. I r been 95% effective in that.
Take that down to 90% after today, just couldn't stop.
nobody is keeping track except you. We don't need updates
Justin Fuente is the LUCKIEST man on earth. He was given the keys to an ACC coastal job with the best and most loyal fans in the conference after a couple decent years at Memphis. He makes 5 mil a year in blacksburg and Whit and the fans carry his water after he gets his ass kicked by ODU and Duke. Unlucky? lol it's the opposite.
You say all this but still don't have an answer to the all important question: Who do you hire to replace him and how do you make sure they're better?
Better than losing to Liberty and ODU? Better than the worst loss at home in 40 seasons? Better than the first losing season in 27 years? Better than 1-4 in bowl games? Better than 1 coastal title? Well golly gee. Only Barry Switzer and Urban Meyer are on that list I suppose. LOL.
Who would you hire tomorrow, assuming reasonable assumptions regarding budget?
So I have 5 mil per for a head coach? VT still in the ACC Coastal division with Duke UVA and UNC- hoops first schools? Wow, where will I ever find a coach interested in that, that can beat Liberty and sign a top 6 ACC recruiting class. It will be tough.
snark aside i am interested in your actual answer for the question
He doesn't have one, and if anyone made any suggestions he'd probably crap on them too.
See below
Interesting tactic to blatantly ramble to avoid the question
I would interview Pete Golding, Luke Fickell, and Todd Monken to start.
Monken 13-25 at So. Miss sounds like a man who is a great assistant coach.
I would look for someone with exposure to big time football/recruiting. Monken has coached in the NFL and SEC. The program needs a mindset change, IMO.
I would too, but Todd Monken wouldn't be in my top 10.
profiles are similar so i dont think it's really here nor there -- memphis went from a 2 win team when fuente was hired to a 10 win team when he left. under monken, southern miss went from a 1 win team to a 9 win team
Fickell isn't leaving a better off situation for us plus money, and I'd much rather offer Jeff monken than Todd.
I would prefer if VT stayed Monken free.
Cincinnati being a better job than VT tells you where we are.
No, Cincinnati being a better job than VT right now tells you how good of a coach Fickell is.
Eh, that's not quite it. Better Job isn't the same as Better Team/Coach. Luke Fickell is a better coach. Cincinnati is a better team. But what DC is really getting at here is that VT, as a program, doesn't have the lure to pull a coach away from Cincinnati, making Cincinnati a better job. What DC is saying is that Cincy is doing a better job of creating an environment that will attract coaches. If Fickell and Fuente both left their respective jobs at the same time Cincy would have more success bringing in a higher profile coach than VT because it is a better Job. That has nothing to do with Fickell and everything to do with how the program is managed from a higher level. That is DC's overarching point through all of this. VT isn't acting like a program that wants to play big boy football. And if you don't act like you belong, you don't belong.
Eh, I get the feeling the Fickell is fine at a place where expectations are lower, I don't think that necessarily means that Cincinnati is a more desirable coaching spot than Virginia Tech. I think Fickell thinks that for whatever his reasons are. That's not an indictment of Virginia Tech though.
So weird a guy born in Ohio who has only
Coached Ohio based college teams like staying in Ohio.
The ACC has a seat at the college football playoff. The AAC does not for all intents and purposes. But sure I guess Ohio loyalty is more important than having a legit shot at competing for a national championship
When your making 3.4 million and waiting for the OSU or ND job to open yea it's pretty easy to do.
The reason why there is no more big east football conference and WVU is playing in the Big 12 for example is because being in a P5 league is paramount. That's my argument. Cincy has to go undefeated and hope that everyone else has 2 losses to get into the final four. See UCF, See Cincy last year, etc. If Fickell goes undefeated at VT, he is in the playoffs.
and I would argue that getting VT into the playoffs is a much faster way to the OSU or ND HC job than just hanging around Cincy until one of those opens up
Edit:
and that's not to say that I want VT to be a stepping stone. I don't. But the reality is that is what we are quickly becoming. And at this point, I'd be happy to be a stepping stone in the interim if it means getting an ambitious, up and coming coach who is hungry to prove himself. That will make us better faster than anything else will at this point. And maybe, just maybe, after being the stepping stone for one guy we can nail a hire who keeps us heading in the right direction who will stick around for a longer tenure.
This implies that winning a championship (or atleast going to the playoffs) is the only important measure in coaching. Basically "it can't be a good job if you can't go to the playoffs". That eliminates 90% of the jobs out there as good jobs.
Path to championship is probably very low on most coaches want list in a job.
Well you set the bar pretty high for yourself by trashing Fuente's Record at Memphis so I assume you'd find someone with better credentials than that? How about a guy that finished 2-4 last season at the University of Charlotte, that work?
Or you're just a complainer with no consistent philosophy and enjoy talking out of your ass.
no need to stoop that low. dc's consistent philosophy is pretty simple... just win, baby
Fuente's record at Memphis was 26-23 and 17-15 in the AAC. What is your point?
That tends to happen when you take over bad teams. Difference is we saw Memphis go 10-3 then 9-3 in a good American. Coaches with those proven turn arounds become hot commodities. Healy hasn't done that yet
Will Healy may turn out to be a great coach but that cake ain't baked fully yet.
Fu gets full credit for turning around that dumpster fire. He also gets held accountable for being 21-21 in his last 42 games at VT and 1-4 in bowls. You can't have it both ways.
Bryant's tweet has very similar wording to the one embedded above from Wooten
It is interesting that they both used this almost identical line: "this has nothing to do with my coaches or the program". I don't know that I've seen something similar included before. I wonder if the coaches are concerned about more bad press? Were they asked to include that? I'm speculating of course, but it seemed odd to me.
I think it's just a natural thing to include because the first thought when something like this happens is usually "oh i wonder if there's bad blood", though I haven't really combed through enough of these to say.
You might be right, but for the heck of it I looked at recent basketball transfers and the tone is very different. To me these seem like they are deflecting blame away from the coaches and program which already have a bad rep amongst the fan base for the large number of transfers out of the program.
The fact that they're doing that speaks to it being true though, right? If there was bad blood, why would they care? Can't imagine the coaches could pressure them into making a statement that they don't want to make.
You might be right and we'll probably never know for sure. But the words and tone are different than other transfers so it's a valid question to ask since our program isn't exactly in a great place.
Yes, I'm guessing there was some nudging from inside the (NOT FOOTBALL ONLY) Merriman on those statements. It is recruiting season after all.
With Wooten this was not his choice, heard some rumblings that I can't confirm yet but seems grades related
Yeah, he mentions he takes responsibility in his tweet, so that also caught me off guard and got the gears going.
let's not speculate
that's what the internet is for
Bitter saying not a legal or academic issue per his source (will remove if not allowed to post that tidbit since it's in The Athletic)
This is a bummer. I was really excited about Beadles and Wooten. Bryant, I think he was a bit over-ranked but expected him to become a JR Collins/Mihota power end. I'd have to assume, for better or worse VT is looking at Barno-Belmar, Griffin-Garbutt. I don't know if they have another body there unless Pene plays end.
Eli Adams. But yeah depth is dumb thin, it'll look even worse next year
We will be hitting the portal hard next off season. With the free year over and everybody forced back to 85 scholarships, there are going to be a lot of players processed both on our team and everybody else.
Hey, but at least it's almost elite, right?!?
via GIPHY
Haha I know this is half a joke but yeah the top 4 are still solid, when #5 and 6 leave then yeah the unit is thin.
Barno is definitely elite, but obv I realize if he gets hurt we're fucked
Yeah more than half a joke. I'm just messing with you. I applaud your optimism, especially when there is a ton of pessimism surrounding the program. I'm still going to make fun of you though :)
Can one of our 15 running backs play DE?
Not having any semblance of depth on the DL is great going into a season, right?
At the end of the day we are now seeing basically the small portion of the 2020 class that we expected to contribute already gone. No other way to put it, that's not good. It wasn't a great class to begin with but now its borderlined awful. You can't afford to miss on a recruiting cycle this badly and it not have serious long term ramifications to the program. And we won't know the full impact of this until that class was supposed to be our upperclassmen in 2023 and 2024. Yikes.
The portal can mitigate what would otherwise have been devastating pre-portal, hopefully.
True, but feels like there's a difference between "we're looking at transfers for depth" and "we're looking at transfers because we have no one good enough to play". The portal is the safety net.
That recruiting class is worse than a "switch coaches" recruiting class. And yes for a program that is average at recruiting at best, we are going to get kicked in the nuts hard in a couple years.
It's fine. Just means Cole Nelson and Stretch Carroll will see the field much earlier. Also probably helps the early PT pitch to a guy like Bryson Jennings. Stay positive my friends. Go Hokies!
Hope you are right. I don't like being dependent on freshmen in the two deep.
Context is everything but def sounds like it wasn't necessarily voluntary on their parts because if it was about PT and depth, you would think they would've done this after spring ball. I don't have any facts, just speculating...let's just hope the ramifications of what the 2020 class became doesn't hurt the program over the next few years (Strong being the outlier).
The clash between this disastrous 2020 class and the free year from the NCAA is going to be interesting to watch next year. Some kids are going to get processed but maybe all of the attrition we have already had will make it not as bad. Either way, roster management for coaches across the NCAA is going to be exceedingly tough next year.
I mean the bright side is Jennings is more likely to commit. I guess.
With both of them potentially becoming starters next season and having an NFL position coach, definitely not about on-the-field issues.
anybody know if this is possibly related to etute?
That is interesting to think about. With it being said it was university related didn't make sense but maybe it does. The hallway tape showed two guys with him. Damn, I hope this doesn't blow that up again.
This was unfortunately my first thought. I hope it isn't, I really hope it isn't.
That was my first thought, as there were 2 supposed players with him, and they both announce almost together, and both seem to make it sound out of their control... but that's a lot of speculation
edit: after posting this, I noticed someone else posted that Bitter's source has said it was neither academic or legal issues, so it may just be one of those things we never know. We just have to trust that this is the best thing for them, wish them well, and move along.
if i recall in the video, the two guys were quite a bit smaller than etute...and bryant and wooten are big guys
IIWII
I wonder if we will ever get used to the normality of player movement?
I was curious to see what the past had in store so I picked a random year. We had 16 non-senior players on the roster in 2004 that were not on the roster for 2005 and didn't go to the draft.
A question I have is that when issues arise would players I the past used the portal instead of staying if it had existed. It's another option when issues happen in a players life whether that is self inflicted or not. Would Brandon Ore xfer instead of the semester off? Or Marcus Vick?
Is this worse or just more reported and another option?
EDIT: fixed wording.
There is a lot of truth to that. Timing makes a difference too. Back then, we usually found out by deduction when the player was no longer part of the roster. Now, it is a headline. It is also a lot more tempting now without a lost year of eligibility.
Numbers always work out, amirite
Hokie5284 over on 247 (non-paywall) made a very great post with some numbers on the Texas recruiting efforts and the downfall in our class rankings. Overall it looks like a ton of effort that didn't amount to much in results, and unfortunately we will need to hit the portal hard next offseason to address the impact of the 2020/2021 classes. I'm sure the renewed energy and emphasis on VA recruiting was not a coincidence.
I do feel good about these Offensive Linemen and Orji coming up from Texas this year..im hoping Orji stays with us though because it looks like he's about to blow up.
Getting some guys from Texas isn't an issue, but the points were more about when we saw a substantially increased focus in Texas it didn't yield very strong results, and if that concentrated effort in Texas came at the cost of effort elsewhere in more relevant regional areas (VA, NC, FL etc.) then it could have been a pretty significant blunder by the coaching staff in terms of recruiting strategy. The quality drop off of the last two classes does suggest that something went awry, and that is a possible explanation. It's impossible to know for sure how much attention was redirected from elsewhere to Texas for someone like me with minimal sources, but it's not an unreasonable way to connect the dots.
Do we actually know how much time and attention the staff is giving to Texas? It seems weird that we get mad when we lose an in-state kid, and blame the nationalization of recruiting - only to then get mad when we try to recruit out of our natural region. I'm not saying it should be our primary focus, that should always be VA (and probably followed by NC, FL, and PA) - but I'm not upset we tried. Same with going to Colorado for Dalton Keene or California for DJ Harvey.
I've already answered your first question. I don't know, but it's a reasonable theory based on the numbers provided in that non-paywalled breakdown. When the number of offers in Texas skyrocketed from the previous cycles, we saw huge dips in our recruiting in all categories. I am not asserting that explains everything, or even that it was the main variable, but it's a reasonable explanation to suggest it impacted recruiting.
Again, it's possible to land targets like Keene and Harvey out of our normal recruiting regions without redirecting a substantial amount of time and resources away from more key areas. Not to mention, I believe Keene's father had some kind of pre-existing connection to someone on our staff. I don't believe Keene and Harvey pulls are the same thing as making a potentially substantial time and resource commitment to a new recruiting area with minimal results.
Keenes dad was Charley Wile's roomate in college. The families are close. Keene aint coming here without that connection
The problem is we have no recruiting strategy- that's the issue. We were luke warm on the traveling camp idea, we don't go hard in the 757 like we used to, we flirted around in Texas. We don't make recruiting a priority when new coaches are hired. Its a mess- a dart board approach and you see the results.
omg lol this is such a laughably bad take. There's no two ways around the fact that 2020 and 2021 were big time whiffs, but just because you don't get it doesn't mean there's no strategy smh. there's a huge difference between "staff put all their eggs in the dematrius davis basket and got burned" and "there is no recruiting strategy". Staff was too confident too early that they'd get major pull in Texas, and that's a glaring misjudgment on their part. But before you write off Texas because DD landed at Auburn and Latrell Neville went from an OU lean to VT commit to Nebraska flip all while his rating dropped like a rock from mid 4* to mid 3* as "flirting around texas", realize there were three signees from TX in the last two classes and three current commits in 2022. Should the staff stick around, I suspect we'll see more.
Anyhow, in the last few classes and with the last few hires, it is clear that this staff is emphasizing people who "get" Virginia Tech, rebuilding relationships within the commonwealth, and casting a wide net to identify and get in early on talent outside of the commonwealth. Players who were unrated when they committed that then were rated in the high-3* range, players who committed early in their own recruitment before other P5 offers started rolling in, and so on.
You can't be serious. You laugh at my take and in the next sentence conceed that the last 2 classes are awful. so is your argument that we do have a "strategy", but it sucks? Or that we have a grand plan being built off of bottom 3rd ACC classes? Checkers v. chess I assume. LOL
just say you dont pay attention but you're unhappy with the results
BS. I do pay attention and a "strategy" of targeting kids that "get" VT seems to not be working, does it? Unless your expectation is 4th in the coastal. Mine is not. So pardon me if I'm not buying the Fuente is smarter than everyone game while Duke is running fake punts laughing at his ass.
Coaching staff hires: people who "get" VT and restoring relationships within the commonwealth -- Tapp, Taylor, Smith, Hamilton. Look at comments by Rashaud Pernell and Ramon Brown after their commitments and tell me there wasn't a message that resonated with them about saying home?
Casting a wide net to identify talent early and get in on recruitment: Payoute, Hoyle, Johnson, Strong, Lawson, Christian, Chaplin/Jones/Wright
You can look at two bad classes and say "they were bad so staff had no strategy", but you can't honestly say there is no strategy if you are going to claim you pretend to pay any attention. You're not allowed to just throw out everything that doesn't agree with your preconceived notion.
No strategy, bad strategy, and ineffective strategy, are very different things.
One could argue that Fuente has a bad strategy, targeting the wrong areas/prospects/recruiting methods, or an ineffective strategy, not bringing in the guys he is wanting/being unable to execute the strategy, but there's no way someone can argue there is "no" strategy.
How does the strategy of over recruiting the RB position fit into this? where is Fu going with that?
high five for the on-topic response, i thought you were gonna bring up the 2019 duke game again
I'll shut up about Duke if there are no BS losses this year. Deal. I could have used Liberty and Wake 2020... recent enough? You get my point.
if only the coaching staff decided to strategize on the recruiting trail in 2020 and 2021 then those losses wouldn't have happened, right?
You can lower your expectations to Wake football being just too big a hurdle for Fuente to beat right now. That's fine. I won't.
yeah all those kids who hadn't even signed yet definitely had something to do with it
Just as a sidenote, we have only finished outside of the top 2 in the Coastal once (2018). And the years we finished second, we were one win away from winning it (Miami 2017, UVA 2019). It terms of competing for the coastal, we've only fallen short of that in 2018.
Disclaimer: There were no divisions in 2020 and we added the top 2 ACC teams who weren't originally on our schedule.
I think we should strive for more than "competing for the coastal". The Coastal is the weakest division in P5. VT used to dominate the division (not just compete for it). Competing for the Coastal is just too low of a bar to set. Competing for ACC titles should be the standard. We're just not there. We can't even win the weakest division in the P5 right now (and haven't been able to for 4 years). I don't want moral victories. Coming close to winning the division isn't the same as dominating it and contending for the conference title. The last time a coastal team won the ACC was when VT won in 2010. The conference has belonged to the Atlantic division since then. Being one win away from winning the worst division in the P5 just isn't good enough for me and that's as close as we've come in 4 years. 4 years is a long time in college football. We are close to having a full roster of players who have never played in the ACCCG. The last time that happened fans were calling for Beamer (the legendary coach who built this program) to step down because his teams just weren't good enough anymore.
Perhaps the better way to phrase it is, "they have a strategy, but they can't execute it well enough to be competitive".
Texas was a mistake, but it was a strategy. Fuente has said that he didn't think Texas was a sustainable focus region. Then we land DD and have massive interest to a point that the staff legitimately thought they were were on the way to an elite class. Then DD rolls out and the rest of it crumbles like a house of cards. Meanwhile, the fragile coaches in VA feel like they were disrespected by the branding of TX2VT, even though they are funneling all their blue chip talent to blue blood schools. So the whole year falls apart. It wasn't without strategy though. The strategy just didn't hold up to early returns.
Part of the problem is that we expect miracles, but we aren't going to break into that consistent top 20 by kissing a little more ass. This class, barring more implosion, will probably finish around 30th and that is probably the ceiling until we earn back our reputation of being a legit national program.
"Part of the problem is that we expect miracles, but we aren't going to break into that consistent top 20 by kissing a little more ass." So what you are saying is we should:
Good, Texas was a waste of our time. We should be focusing up and down the East coast. Our bread and butter should be NJ, PA, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL. Anything else is a reach
Michael Brewer would like a word...
Seriously though, I don't fault the staff for seeking talent regardless of where in the country that talent may reside. Certainly there are a lot of factors that play into a recruit's decision, and sometimes for whatever reason things don't work out. I would be curious whether distance plays a factor in higher transfer rates (meaning do players from further away leave/transfer at a higher rate than those from closer areas).
We should recruit the best players that fit our systems and target them hard. Regardless of where they live. But, what is our "system"? Battering the QB keeper? Zone defense? Who knows. Paul Johnson recruited a lot of RB type players...duh. But so do we? It's all over the place
Brewer was a) a transfer and b) before Fuente.
Even if he had said Evans (also from Texas), it stands true that transfer recruiting is way different than recruiting HS kids.
How so?
Talking about depth and productivity, I think we are looking at upgrades along the entire line, regardless of Bryant and Wooten's transfers.
DT:
Barno year 2 should be better than Barno year 1
Belmar should be more productive than Reed
Garbutt should also be more productive than Reed
Griffin and Pollard have shown flashes of ability at DE as well
DT:
Kendricks year 2 should be better than Kendricks year 1
Williams should be more productive than Hewitt
Cunningham should be better than Crawford
Fuga year 2 should be better than Fuga year 1
Are we better with Bryant and Wooten? Maybe. But as a whole, the line should be better anyway.
a couple of those are wildly optimistic imo, but i appreciate the hustle
I'm sorry but why should anyone believe this will be the case?
I'm not sure he will play for VT again, but even if he does, why is this a reasonable take?
The rest about guys being better than last year all stands to reason, but those three things quoted don't seem defensible outside of, "I sure hope it's true."
Amen- I said at the time that Crawford leaving would hurt. Veteran who can play..total BS that he was the "6th"DT too. lolololol
Belmar was the most consistent DE on the roster 2 years ago. At worst I think he will be equally as effective as Reed, who didn't particularly dominate. Belmar isn't going to make highlight plays but he's a guy that is going to play his assignment and do the dirty work.. and that will open the door for Barno to create chaos.
As for Cunningham - if healthy, he is a much better fit for the Teerlinck/Hamilton's scheme than Crawford
Shut it down, mods. DC and Alum are out of control. No more good can come of this thread.
I was just thinking the same. Probably time to nuke this one, it's just turning into a pissing contest of negativity and snark.
i probably did more to derail it than alum did 😬
Nothing compared to DC coming in from the top rope.
For the life of me I don't know why you< or anyone, still engages with him. Not saying anything about who is right and who is wrong, but why even bother when you know each response, no matter how sensible, will be met with a counter.
what else am i supposed to do at work, work?
Tweet at croots
Well played. Carry on....
I absolutely stepped in it this thread but the thing is, I haven't even been that active in here since last season ended. And when I do comment in here, I very much try to stay away from football conversations because I know anything I say will immediately be met with someone yelling at me for being too negative and telling me the site would be better if I didn't exist.
Which, whatever. I've spent more time in other ventures and topics that are actually enjoyable, so it is what it is. If people still want to blame me for the overall negative tone on this site regarding the football team, I'm flattered they think I'm that important.
FWIW, I usually enjoy reading your posts.
It is so fucking tiresome...
Yeah I'll be honest. It all sucks. From a fan point of view, I am more disconnected from Tech athletics than I have ever been. Then from the running a business perspective it's nothing but an uphill struggle. People cancel memberships because the program sucks and they've lost interest. People on TKP complain about the people complaining and won't join because of that. People cancel because all people do is complain. And obviously people lost their jobs with COVID. I'll be honest, I don't know the best way forward, but I think life's trying to tell me something here.
I know I complain a lot. I am sorry for that. Part of the beauty of TKP, to me, is that its a space for me to do just that. I would be really sad if TKP ceased to exist for a lot of reasons but one of them is the fact that, despite everyone's complaints, it's still a community that loves VT and wants VT sports to excel (even if we all have different ideas how to make that happen).
I hope what life is telling you is that all great things are worth fighting for.
I think it's more stop wasting your time and play more golf. 😂
Absolutely! I have a 4-day Member-Guest starting tomorrow that I'm playing in with a fellow Hokie and all I expect to do over the next few days is golf, drink, eat, and laugh in beautiful Cape weather.
And win our flight, of course...
Good luck!!! Take it to em in the first match to really set the tone, CapeHokie ain't fucking around.
I will be honest for a second. If this site is a drag on your life, shut it down. That is just me talking to a bud at the bar.
.
This is contradictory.
If its too stressful, we could easily move to the hokie subreddit.
You'd get more time, and no hosting costs.
Like everything else, it's all Fuente's fault!
This is why we have community guidelines. We don't (at least we are not supposed to) downvote "negative" opinions that we just so happen to disagree with.
We are only supposed to downvote other violations of the guidelines, personal attacks, or things of that nature. The downvoting of "negative" opinions (frankly, anything other than pure optimism) has been allowed to go on for far too long, in direct contravention of the "upvote more often than you downvote" mantra, and it has spiraled a bit out of control.
Now, those being downvoted into oblivion feel compelled to respond/engage further, often times with moderators who (by their own admission in some instances) have stepped outside that role and into one of adversary. So, downward we go... Hopefully we'll start winning some games and this will improve.
This is directly from the guidelines. There is a vast ocean of gray area between what is rah rah homerism and negative noise and every community member will have different tolerance thresholds. My advice is ignore small quantities of downvotes since they mean next to nothing. Always try to add value to the discussion whether being critical or optimistic. And, if I didn't mention it, ignore downvotes. Some will be unfair and some will just be somebody's view of interpreting the guidelines their way. Did I say ignore downvotes?
We agree in large part. And I don't pay any attention to downvotes on my comments. (Not aware of anything beyond small quantities, actually).
I was referring to comments from a few posters on this board that are actually based in large part on objective fact, albeit with a "negative" slant, that get downvoted to the point where they are blurred. That is not a "small quantity" and is what I meant when I said "downvoted into oblivion." As someone who is not even engaged in many of those conversations, but just lurking, it seems like if you're anything other than completely optimistic (which, let's face it, is a bit difficult since we haven't been to big-time bowl game in nearly a decade) you're going to be blurred. It was not always this way on TKP. That's all I'm saying.
That so?
*for the record, no I did not really downvote this*
I enjoyed every line....
Hey fellow TKPers, we joined a basketball conference in 2004, and we came in and kicked ass and took names in foosball. but the bottom line is, tech lost its footing, and can't get up. The complaints are what make you better- in business and life. If you do the status quo, and have no adversity, you will lose to the next guy that works harder and tries harder. We were out worked and out hustled to the middle of the pack in football. Hey , it sucks, and DC and others, including me, convey their displeasure with sucking in football. If you don't like what you are doing, or what you hear, you move on, or you hope for better days. Right now, we hope for better days, and bitch while we wait.
I don't think complaining makes you better. I think it leads to finger pointing and divides you. I think coming up with a plan to fix your deficiencies and executing that plan with your team make you better. I am, however, in no position to contribute to that other than pulling what monetary crumbs and support I give to the program away until the output matches my expectations. I know that's not going to move the needle despite the mud I throw, so I choose to do what's easiest for me.
I think everyone wants the program to be better. Hell, when we were on our 10 win streak and annually in the preseason top 5 at some point I grew tired of not being the best. That grass wasn't greener. I'm not sure Fuente is the answer, but I'm also not privy to 99.99% of what goes on with the personnel, budgets, and recruiting of teenagers. I have no idea what's best. I can speculate. I can make informed decisions based on my 0.01%. But again, that's just an exercise in futility.
I support Virginia Tech for more reasons that I can list here. I love seeing someone in an airport halfway across the country, and getting a "Go Hokies" when they see my hat or shirt. I love the campus and the town of Blacksburg. I have a ton of memories and a ton of expectations. But like many of you I've grown tired of the constant fighting and finger pointing. I don't have an answer, and I'm not happy either. But I also know I don't like where it's brought me personally as a fan, both in terms of what I can and can't change. It sucks. Maybe this is the new normal. Maybe this is a dip. Maybe this is the start of a much longer downward trend. Regardless it sucks to see what it's done to us as a whole. Again, no answers, so I won't belittle those that are in the same boat. I'll try to stay on the glass half full side simply because if there's any damn water in it at all, it could always get worse. And I don't operate the tap.
Go Hokies.
I liked this post. And I generally agree that complaining doesn't make you better. But the way I interpreted that was more of "squeaky wheel gets the grease". As a fanbase, at large, our pitchforks and torches, lofted high and ablaze send a message to the powers-that-be that we're not satisfied with the status quo. The louder we "squeak" the more likely it is we'll be "greased". That's kind of what I took from that. And I think there is some merit to that. You alluded to it yourself. By taking away the "crumbs" you donate until you see a better product you're effectively "squeaking"
Let me rephrase, criticism helps you learn how to be better in your trade. You must be able to react and adjust to constructive criticism to get better. I am not saying that bitching makes things better. I am saying you must learn how to grow and react to forces around you.
But then there are people like me who can't suffer the squeak. Rather than grease the squeaky wheel, the urge is to just burn the whole damn thing down.
People like that are among the ones that quit the site, quit supporting the program, and become less likely to contribute when needed.
Not saying the squeaky wheel isn't needed. It is. But for some of us, it is insufferable. Edit for an expansion on that thought. In this case, squeaky wheel needs to consider the timing of the squeaks. Ruining every conversation we try to have on the site is not going to accomplish anything. Shitting on every recruitment thread doesn't help. We can't seem to have a positive thread around here without someone trashing it with the same old crap.
If you're going to complain and expect change, there should be solid logic for the change. And we don't need the same thing shoved down our throats every time. Vary the message. Approach it from multiple angles. Anything but this same old crap.
In this vein...if you're going to troll, be good.
The good troll doesn't constantly troll, they pick the opportunity to troll, get in, get out, run silent, and wait.
You and the good senator are both absolutely correct. I actually enjoy a good troll or two. Key being GOOD.
Earlier today, I was reading this thread and wondering when I should actually come back. I don't contribute super often, or anything of super deep meaning, but I generally enjoy TKP. The noise and negativity is just getting so damn old though. I won't call any names because I also understand frustrations. We ALL want the same thing. A trophy to put in Merriman and a banner hanging in Lane. Turning every thread into the same ol' "Fu bad, give legs" is just tiring.
I'm liking this post because I too love Virginia Tech for the community. As someone who didn't go to school there, but always dreamed of it, the community makes you feel like family. I've met some of my best friends from Blacksburg when I would visit family and friends. I'm the guy that does a good ol' "Let's Go" in an airport in Kansas when I see someone wearing a VT shirt or hat. Go Hokies
I forgot who I wanted to comment to so I will just put it here. I think we largely put the heyday of VT football on a false pedestal. I think it was Bitter that analyzed all VT seasons back to the 90s to see how many would have made a 12 team playoff. It was like 4 or 5 years only. I lived it and it felt like we were much more dominant than that. Truth is we were winning ACC titles with several losses. I think we can be better, but many of those same glory year teams would just be sucking hind tit now that some of the traditional powers are back to full steam. End rant.
Love this, wish the world would compromise a bit more these days and learn to appreciate the good times as my favorite sayings I utter in a rough day is times are always a changin.
I agree with the overall post, but we definitely would have made a 12 team playoff in 99, 2000, 04, and 07. And probably in 08, 09, 10, and 11 as well. I can't imagine a 12 team playoff leaving out a P5 champion, and the other years we were top 12 in the bcs rankings.
Fact checked it and I was definitely a little off. It would have been 4 times since joining the ACC, 8 since the 90's.
95, 96, 99, 00, 04, 05, 07, 09
We would have to be in in '10 and '11
2010 we were 13th in final poll and 2011 we were 11th but in a weird circumstance were the first team out the way the seeding would work. I wont steal more thunder from Bitter's paid article than that but his process was sound. Now, would a playoff committee have voted the same rankings as the BCS, we can't know. Only the top six conference winners are guaranteed a spot in the assumed format. Side note, conferences do still have some ammo against the super conference scenario coming in because they could lobby for a cap on the number from each conference.
I consider the 'VT football heyday' as 1996-2011. That's 5 playoff berths in 15 years? That's pretty damn good. It's not Nick Saban/Dabo/OSU good, but I would counter - how many other programs would have made the playoff more than 4-5 times in that 15 year span?
Valid points and I dont want to seem like I am going too far to undersell the success either. It is a heyday for a reason. Your points are even more valid if you notice my edit that we would have made it 8 times from 95-09. I think the more interesting part of that range was what we were doing since the ACC era. Were our ACC teams being propped up by lack of challengers in the rest of the conference? My favorite Hokie team was probably 04 in a year with a rocky start and a hell of a finish. Would that year have looked different as an ACC runner up behind Clemson or full steam FSU?
I don't wanna seem like I am bagging on past teams. We were definitely in the upper tier for a while. However, today's upper tier seems to be a step above that. So, the challenge is that we not only have to get back to our old ways, we have to also take another step beyond that to achieve similar success.
From 1995 to 2011, without looking how would guess the following make that many:
Bama
LSU
Florida
Florida State
Miami
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State (might be too early for them)
Nebraska
Texas
Oklahoma
Auburn
Oregon
Georgia
Tennessee
Penn State
Stanford (like MSU this might be early for their run)
Colorado (might be too late since they were a 90s team)
Kansas State
West Virginia (they probably need earlier 90s)
That's a 3rd of P5 teams.
First of all, top third of P5 teams is pretty good - that means we are (were) easily a top 25 program.
Anyways, SI did this exercise over the past 7 seasons.
Suppose we were to copy/extrapolate this - assume we can double these numbers, and it's pretty similar over a 14/15 year period - That would result in 11 teams with definitively more playoff appearances with us, about would put us in the same range as 8 of the teams that made 2 playoff appearances in a 7 year period.
All that to say - I think we were a top 12-20 program in the 'heyday', and this unscientific exercise shows that. If someone has more time, I'd love to see exactly where we stood if a 12 team playoff were to be implemented from '96 to 2015.
I took a look at the article and I'm confused. I'm sure it is a user error, but how does SI not have Bama in the playoffs in 2019 when they played in the championship game? Are they saying with the new rules, Bama would not have been chosen?
Bama did not make the playoffs during the 2019 season. You're thinking of the 2018 season, where bama played in the national title game on January 7th 2019.
Leg for the assist! I feel likely lately seasons have been blending together in my head. Thanks!
Wooten lands at Texas Tech
committed [ kuh-mit-id ]
adjective
Children need warm and committed parents.
Lets be honest with ourselves - these "committed" posts all need to have an obligatory * next to them
* until something better comes my way
I mean, he's transferring so it's pretty solid that's where he's going.
Don't be this guy, especially when you don't know why he left VT
All our ex's are from Texas.
And now it's stuck in my head, thanks
This comment reinforces how happy I am that I do not listen to country music.
Well then if country music aint your thing heres something to get stuck in your head that we all know.
[Removed by me]
Him and Dwayne Lawson are gonna kill it up there...
But for real, good for him. Illinois isn't exactly in a great spot but Bielima back in the Big 10 is as good a bet as any to prove yourself.
Of the DL transfers, he hurts the least.
At least he's in the western division and avoids the annual beatings from anOSU and Pedo State. And since the Illini have never made the B1G championship game, he likely won't face them there either.
Saw the blue and orange, and almost projectile vomited on the computer. Then I saw the B1G logo and immediately returned to reality.
and STILL projectile vomited....