JUST IN - The Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 are expected to formally announce their alliance on Tuesday, multiple sources tell @NicoleAuerbach. Topics of discussion:◻️Playoff expansion◻️NCAA governance issues◻️Football schedulinghttps://t.co/pSIraIXoLX— The Athletic (@TheAthletic) August 24, 2021
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Evolution or chaos? Break out the popcorn boys and girls.
Listening to Finebaum bitch and moan about how this is bad for college football but in the same breath love up on the SEC stealing away texas and oklahoma has me glad to see the conference is doing something to combat the SEC monopoly that hopefully works though this could backfire. Either way time to sit back and watch the fireworks
Finebaum is the Skip Bayless of college football with an extreme homerism for the SEC.
extreme homerism, he is on the SEC network and covers them. He is paid to have a biased opinion essentially.
I get hes ESPN and SEC homered but hes so biased that literally the SEC destroys a conference with one swing and somehow this is now the PAC-12, Big 10s and ACC's fault was his spin yesterday. Curious to see how the gameday crew talk about it or if they even do with the mighty mouse pulling their strings they may not be allowed to voice any true opinion.
Herbstreit had come out on twitter against the SEC's move (destroying tradition and history) already. I bet they will be able to voice their thoughts because it engages viewers.
I hope they will and I hope we get some SEC slander but never doubt the influence of the mouse. As long as it doesnt derail into a skip and shannon esque tantrum debate I'll listen in.
Finebaum is the SEC figurehead shill that does little more than try to sway public opinion so that ESPN can continue to rake in money from college football.
There is zero coincidence that after years of being against any kind of playoff expansion, suddenly ESPN is pushing a narrative that its vitally important that the playoff expands immediately to preserve the integrity of the game. Its zero coincidence this was done as a reaction to the Big XII getting blown up after Texas and Oklahoma left to the SEC and even less of a coincidence to find out that ESPN was behind those moves.
So to now find out that the remaining 3 'Power' conferences are banding together to basically force the playoff to go into a planning freeze until after ESPN's exclusive contract runs out.... Yeah, they're pissed. And there's not a goddamn thing they can do about it.
Ah the new Pac ACC Ten, or PAT for those who like acronyms. Everything about it is quite ambiguous right now, is it an alliance or a division, who knows?
Atlantic Pacific Ten Coast Conference
Is it 10 teams? Is it 10 coasts? We don't really know.
I read this as Big Fat Ass, and I'm not changing it in my mind, cause I can hear him say it, too as I watch the GIF.
Totally prepared to boycott the SEC if necessary.
No 12 team playoff.
I would expect it expands but the format may be different than what was proposed this year. Maybe 8 teams, maybe 12 but limits on at large, etc.
Just cap it at 3 teams for a single conference. There's no reason in hell anyone outside the top 3 in a conference should be in, it defeats the purpose of having conferences.
Heck, I still think 2 per conference is fine.
I think 1 is fine. And easy without the Big12.
One rep per conference for a 12 team playoff is a bit too restrictive. 2 is fine.
one from each conference and 2 independents
Notre Dame, BYU, New Mexico State, Uconn, Army and UMass can rotate regardless of record every 3 years
This would create an incentive to go independent for any school in a G5 conference that is considering P5 membership.
I was being facetious
1 conf championship game winner from the 4 big conferences is plenty.
I agree. Feeling sorry for teams that fuck up their standing but we think are better than the result defeats the purpose of competition. You are a 3rd place one loss team in the SEC, well shit you should have won if you want to claim a spot in the playoff for the best in the league. So a two loss BIG team gets in instead, big deal. I am so sick of the bias that SEC gets. They actually earn more credit for quality losses than other conferences do for wins. Dumb as shit. Disclaimer, I do think SEC is the best conference but I feel no need to reward 3rd and 4th best in any conference.
Hooray for the Big Pacific Atlantic Coast Conference!
BPACC. Its not the worst acronym ive ever seen. Although if pronounced B-pack, it really plays into insecurities about being a B-team league to the SEC
B1G PACC
I'm gonna guess this is likely less about making any kind of concrete scheduling decisions and more about forcing a halt to playoff expansion discussions until after the ESPN exclusivity contract runs out in 2026. If they expand beforehand, it allows ESPN to continue those rights for another 10 years.
As much as I want an expanded playoff, I can't help but feel pleasure in slighting ND even if it is in just this small way.
I wonder if this alliance will help move ND to the ACC if we have scheduling partnerships with some of their traditional rivals?
If the TV deal is for all 3 and money doesn't matter as much then I'd rather see ND in the Big Ten playing Mich and MSU every year with a cross over vs BC. We can get Maryland back.
I am guessing there won't be a new TV deal announced with this since all 3 conferences have their own deals with different networks currently. I would assume it would be the scheduling deal to bolster their negotiating power with ESPN and Fox. I can't imagine it would be rolled up under 1 deal at any point.
My small hope is this is a conference realignment and therefore that breaks our agreement and forces ESPN to a new collective bargaining for the PACBIGACC.
It would have to be a major scheduling deal to make that happen. I don't see the conferences not staying separate. I bet it will be a real snoozer of an announcement that is about protecting the integrity and traditions of CFB and they align to vote in accordance with that on all things and will work on a scheduling agreement for the future.
Personally, I would love for a 9 game conference schedule, plus 1 team from each of the BIG and PAC and one tune up game from the G5/FCS. That says a lot about your conference strength. It also gives you a lot more clout on the TV rights. Not to mention as a major scheduling update, it might break our agreement...
Also that means that eventually we will catch up with Penn State, Michigan and Wisconsin who have been ducking us for years!
I'd rather do 8 conference games, 1 PAC, 1 BT, 1-2 G5 games.
I actually agree with you, but I think everybody is moving towards a 9 game conference schedule.
Something to think about is the ACC has a lot of traditional rivals with the SEC that play every year and our ND partnership. They would have to make ND join and then even Clemson, GT, Miami and Louisville play SEC teams every year.
If the alliance is against the SEC, we might see the end to those ACC/SEC rivalries.
ACC adds UCF & ND (if they decline, Army), adding Orlando & Chicago or NYC TV markets.
Now 16 teams of 4x4 pods, rotate yearly by 1) geographic pod pairs OR 2) swap pod members by previous EoY rank and play pod 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4.
12 Games = 1 FCS + 8 conference (2 pods) + 1 B1G + 1 PAC + 1 SEC/G5/Rival. Championship between pod pair winners.
Match OoC games by previous year Massey Composite final ranking, e.g #7 ACC plays #7 B1G/PAC/SEC/G5
Preserves rivalries, maximizes fan travel, rotates interconference play, balances competition, adds 2 TV markets.
My man, Army does not add the NYC tv market. Regardless, everything I've seen from national writers has said that, as cable subscription rates have declined, it's now less about the markets, and more about "brands", so who is just going to draw the eyeballs regardless of where they are located (Texas/Oklahoma). Plus, the only way the conferences are going to add members is if they'll get a lot more money from the networks, because of the new teams (if they're splitting the same pie with two more schools, what's the point?), especially the ACC, since they would need ESPN to rip up the contract, and give them a new one, and Notre Dame is the only team right now that would do that, and they seemingly have no reason to join.
I do like the scheduling, though.
I'd go one further and say that NO college team adds the NYC TV market; it's a pro sports town. This is where the shift to thinking about brands makes more sense. No college team captures NYC, but there are some (like ND) with sufficient brand power to still deliver significant value there.
For sure. I very rarely see anyone wearing any kind of college gear around here. Except for Rutgers, obviously /s.
ND has it's own independent brand. Not seeing a compelling reason for them to join, when they have 9/10ths of the benefits without having to share their independent revenues. But they are an obvious fit for the ACC if they'd join.
I'm also not seeing that UCF and Army add a lot to the ACC value proposition. For me, adding WVU and another Big 12 team would make more sense if you were looking at expansion. In today's environment, any team is viewed in terms of dollar signs.
ND is rumored to have said that the rest of the CFB world will have to pry independence from its cold, dead fingers, so... we'll see. I'm with you, I don't see a compelling reason for them to join any conference unless not doing so keeps them from the playoff. I think it's unlikely that the powers that be in CFB will issue that ultimatum.
As for additions, you obviously take ND at any time. Beyond that, the only team I see that adds any real value is Cinci. Even given a gradual shift to brand-centric financial models, cable markets will continue to drive revenue for many years. The ACC should be able to leverage expansion in OH into additional distribution fees in that part of the country. Whether they can get enough to make the additional revenue split worth it remains to be seen, of course.
UCF? Army? This is a joke, right?
Manifest Destiny Conference. The Divisions can be Lewis and Clark and have 20 teams each.
I just absolutely hate all of this. Actually playing the games and cheering your team is now secondary to the business and ESPN's short-sighted need to generate shareholder return (assuming they are pulling the strings here, which if we're being honest with one another there's NO WAY the execs at ESPN we're not involved in the discussions on the domino effect).
Godfrey had a fantastic rant about this last week on an SZD episode behind the paywall. To summarize/paraphrase:
* unless you're at the LOLUVA spring game.
Some fandom is relevant mainly in its irrelevance.
I assume this is just for college football?
It seems to be mostly about football for now, but allegedly the involved schools "want to continue their broad-based sports offerings while also upholding the academic profile of their institutions." That to me implies that this will affect other sports and maybe some research collaborations or whatever as well.
Quote is from an article on The Athletic.
Does this mean we'll no longer play the SEC teams we have scheduled for football in the next two decades?
I think "as soon as practical" means currently scheduled games will stay on the books.
I hope so. Those are the OOC games I'm looking forward to the most.
So from: https://pac-12.com/article/2021/08/24/pac-12-acc-and-big-ten-announce-hi...
Some of that might be for... political reasons we definitely should not get into, but mentioning all of this gives me the sense this is supposed to be much bigger than football. It just seems like, for example, mentioning "gender equality" make no sense at all unless the scope of the alliance includes all sports.
I hope they hold off on playoff negotiation so that the ESPN contract doesn't get re-upped. I also hope they negotiate a new contract with NBC/CBS/FOX to get rid of the power of ESPN over everything.
So the Power 5 is officially a....Top 2? now or Fab Four?
Fab Four plus the Leftover 8. The press conference was like a subtle jab at them, and that they need the big12 to succeed.
Speculating here, but sharing my thoughts because this is the internet:
I think this is true. It's a good move for these other three conferences.
If the SEC wants to go out on it's own, it can, but it might look a little isolated.
Well, after watching that I can confidently say that those three men talked to each other and then talked to some other people about the fact that they talked to each other.
Everything else was kind of on the vague side.
*Insert Perd Hapley .gif*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcszyb5d7nA
Is this the end of the NCAA?
It feels like this was a power move by SEC to out-leverage for TV monies, etc.
Will there be 2 Divisions?: The sub-pro's, versus student-athelete divisions?
My head is spinning.....
Well, if the Fab Three lock out the SEC from cross conference play that leaves the SEC playing themselves and G5/FCS teams. If the G5 take the step up as the BIG PACC and say we won't play the SEC, the SEC is in trouble with no other teams to play.
The SEC will take the opportunity to all play 4 cupcakes then say "we're the best"
I'm confused don't they already do this?
Sure, but they would lose the "legitimacy" of having been voted into the playoff game(s).
Well that wasn't very informative. It basically came down to "Hey. Let's not screw each other over. But let's not put it in legally binding terms so we can still do it if we want to later. But for now, we're gonna play each other. Which we were already doing. Also, LOLBig12 but we want them to succeed...not really, LOLBIG12".
I hope the expansion goes to wrestling as well. Be fun to see multiple big 10 teams on the schedule
PAC12/Big10/ACC wrestling tourney to start off the year, hosted by Oklahoma St, who still, really, really wants to join the Pac12. Penn St will somehow finish second to Iowa, even though Ohio St had a wrestler place in every division. Arizona St will randomly trot out a guy with 1 arm, and he'll win his weight class. NC State's coach will be disqualified after jumping on the mat for a call that didn't go their way. And VT will cruise to an easy 3rd place finish, and the tv prize money that comes with it.
For me, this is a good move by the Big10, ACC, and Pac-12.
If the SEC wants to expand, fine. But each power conference should get to send the same number of teams to the playoffs. The SEC doesn't get to monopolize it. The entire NCAA isn't just a mechanism to funnel money towards one conference (or even one network).
And if the SEC wants to go off on it's own, then,
This was a massive nothing burger. Essentially, yeah we all talked and looked each other in the eye and agreed to agree on an alliance and playing some games against each other in the future, maybe.
This is basically digging your heels in on the status quo. All this does is potentially put a wrench in any playoff expansion until 2026, which with only "we looked each other in the eye and agreed" is about as trustworthy as a fart after Taco Bell. The SEC will likely move forward with continued expansion, and I hope we are one of their targets. If they're willing to talk, we should be willing to listen.
Yeah the fact that it's a verbal agreement and nothing written or signed?
This is nothing more than a pact to hold off playoff expansion until every media outlet can bid on it.
I feel like this is pretty much a battle between Fox and ESPN pulling the strings.
CBS is the other. Paramount+ alone has added a years worth of soccer, and they are looking to add more sports to the streaming package.
Worst press conference I have seen since, well, last December.
This could have been an email
Like most press conferences.
To be fair, that's 90% of meetings.
This needs more teeth and it could be a very good thing. Pinky promises aren't scaring the SEC yet because the SEC still thinks anybody they invite into their club will come and they may be right.
Sure, but unless they invite everyone, which they don't want to do, they're still in a conference that's smaller than the PAC ACC B1G, and (at least right now) are geographically limited.
Geographically limited to the part of the country (now with Texas and Oklahoma to boot) that has an outsized concentration of the college football fans, and the part of the country that cares the most about college football by a considerable distance.
That's true. On the other hand it's still geographically limited, and has a lower population, with lower income.
A good bit of the value of the SEC is because they're at the top of college football, which has a lot of interest from all over the United States, as they win a lot of NCAA championships. If you cut it off from the rest of college football, I think you'll see a drop in overall value. A lot of people care about Alabama because Clemson or Ohio State will likely face them at the end of the season. They have a lot of clout, but not all the clout.
I believe this is the message that the other conferences are sending.
For the moment I think the alliance is a whole bunch of nothing. A loose connection of handshake agreements that is primarily a posturing move in reaction to SEC expansion. I don't think there is a guarantee that any material benefit will come from it, it could, but right now I'm not putting much stock into it at all.
Agreed. In fact, I'm hoping this just accelerates SEC expansion and that they target us next. The Alliance was a massive flop and doesn't really mean anything.
I actually hope the ACC does something really stupid like add WVU, which could constitute a restructuring of the tv deal and get us out of the GoR.
For those criticizing the alliance, what exactly was it that you hoped/expected them to do in the like two weeks since these talks started?
Some sort of actual, substantive agreement that details what they are going to do to combat the SEC, some concrete scheduling arrangements, and perhaps a plan for tv revenue sharing or renegotiated deal. The entire "alliance" is just political posturing to try and delay playoff expansion and holding off the SEC. It's just hollow words.
I don't see it quite like that.
At least they're talking. And while that's cheap, they have added some self-generated pressure to make some changes to scheduling to strengthen the non-SEC conferences. Of course it will work better if they actually play the games they schedule. Particularly the ones they schedule with VT (Looking at you, Wisconsin, Penn State, and Michigan).
The ACC already has a pretty big exit penalty. The Big 10 doesn't have an exit fee, but they own the rights of their teams for a few years into the future. Each conference already has the power of their members, so it's likely that every move from now on will consider the SEC's position. They have some common interests, so it makes sense that they strengthen their own communication channels.
Well we got nothing so anything would be better. Personally, I don't care about forging an alliance. We need to try and bolt for the SEC.
This entire cross-conference cooperation reeks of desperation. No real substance that likely won't positively impact the conferences.
While it's not a super strong response, I don't see it as "desperation".
It's a warning shot to let the SEC know they're paying attention. It also means the other conferences are having conversations, and casting a weary eye towards the SEC.
It sends the subtle message that they're not necessarily going to overlook future SEC moves. Also will change the way they view playoff proposals.
There might be some benefits, as they will likely look to strengthen the scheduling between the three conferences. They'll also likely sketch out some potentially stronger moves if the SEC swallows any more teams.
I'm interested in seeing if there's going to be a new voting structure for future expansion, like if the SEC needed approval from the other 8 conferences to get Tx and Okla. Big12 and SEC would not vote. A checks and balances if you will...
How's this for a bold move? The ACC offers membership to six teams effective when Texas and Oklahoma make their shift. The ACC picks up OK State, TCU, Baylor, TTech, Houston and Cincy. We split the conference into four pods of five teams that play their 4 podmates every year and all five teams in one other pod each year so that you play every team in the conference once every three years. Notre Dame will never join a conference for football so we accept reality there. WVU does nothing for the conference academically and who wants to add a bitter foe to our schedule? Plus, it would be the ultimate rejection letter to the cousins. The five teams in TX/OK are their own pod to cut down on travel costs, and the ACC can renegotiate their crappy deal with ESPN plus add the TX/OK markets. I don't expect this kind of bold leadership from Tobacco Road but a dude can dream, amirite?
I don't see the benefit of offering four Texas schools full partnership in the firm.
Nor do I see the benefit of offering WVU partnership, so we agree there.
I don't really care about adding most of those teams to the ACC.
Sometimes bigger isn't better.
I saw the term "pods", so I'm out
Unsurprisingly, the lads at Split Zone Duo absolutely railed on how much of an absolute nothingburger the Alliance is.
The only thing that's a BIGGER nothingburger is the folks complaining about it.
If they have a better solution that's realistic, let's hear it.
Thank you, literally what did they expect.
Not surprised though, Richards an SEC homer and Godfrey/Kirshner love complaining. Still a big fan of the pod tho