Joe, if this is noise please delete. I felt to post based on the context of our discussions regarding the current coaching staff.
New #DonVFridays with Hokie legend Jerod Evans. Enjoy the Bye week bruvs 🔥🔥🔥🔥 https://t.co/8S0qfRmK8s— Légend (@DonV757_) September 28, 2021
Fuente has beef with Jerod. Jerod tiptoes around the word, but points more toward his treatment after the 2016 season.
There's a claim made that pre-draft, the NFL coaches took him from 3/4 round, to undrafted bc he got questions about relationship issues with his coach....right before the draft.
Cornelsen is learning just like we are, but this is Fuente's offense. The Memphis offense never made it to Blacksburg.
Jerod learned more from his time in JUCO, and just did with Fu. Read and Run.
The offense is the same as in 2016.
Jerod is in Japan, and hoping to get back to the NFL. Same agent as Tyrod.
It's worth a listen in the context of our discussions with the coaching staff.
Comments
I'll say what I said in the other thread: Now that I have listened to the whole podcast, I am even more convinced that the rot is from the top. What kind of person would do a bait-and-switch like CJF did to Jerod? He showed Jerod Memphis/Paxton Lynch film as what Jerod could expect at VT, and then once he committed to VT, Jerod found out that the Offense plan/scheme at VT was nothing like what he was sold! That is cold. The other telling scene was the players from Clemson arriving at the ACCCG loose and ready, whereas for VT the arrival at the game and leaving the bus was like a military drill in contrast.
I was also incredulous that Trubisky would be a top 2 pick while JE went undrafted, and this helps explain that too.
How about Sam Rogers for HC?
In summary, there is a lot to unpack from this podcast, and very little of it favorable to the current HC.
I'm gonna need someone with more expertise to back me up, but I'm pretty sure Paxton Lynch wasn't running a complex offense at Memphis. Pretty sure if I went back and watched the play designs might have been tailored differently, but that there were a lot of one read and run stuff...
It was more complex than what we have. The main issue is the coach that actually ran that offense stayed in Memphis and became the (edit: Interim for one game) head coach. We got Corn who was learning at that point and still is.
this is a shameful interview for Fuente. GOT style walk of shame.
It reads like sour grapes from a player that didn't make it in the NFL and wants to blame someone.
Normally I would agree with you, somewhat. But not when I'm staring at a dumpster fire. Then all garbage looks like it fits.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything Evans says is true. He's been in 2 or 3 NFL camps, I think a couple of tryouts in Canada, 2 or 3 arena teams and now a team in Japan (who knew that was a thing btw). Somewhere along the line, if he had legit talent, a team would take him if they thought he could help them, regardless of what his college coach did or did not tell people. At some point he has to accept some responsibility for his own situation. Period.
Agreed! 100%. I listened to all of the interview podcasts and during the Alleyne (sp) interview he said from his observation, Evans was not a "super team player". Not one time during the Evans interview did he talk about anything other than his own personal accomplishments and what he felt was due him. No shout outs to the O line for those rushing yards, no shout outs to the Receivers for the passing yards, or any other love to the team. All I heard was "me". He also indicated that he had made it clear that he was "one and done" during the recruiting process to come to Tech.
I don't think its fair to say he never gave shout outs. He repeatedly talked about how the WRs were great and he wanted to throw to them more and how the RBs were good and he wanted to give them the ball.
A guy who still wants to make it to the league isn't going to go on a podcast and explain how his college coach had to simplify the offense for him.
Scouts do evaluations of a player's ability to understand a complex offensive scheme. They don't just take a college coach's word for it.
This just reminds me of the Cam Newton draft where Gruden was interviewing QBs and I want to say Ryan Mallet was breaking down film like a champ and explaining his own plays and the reads. Cam comes on and Gruene ask what he calls this play and Cam says 6. It's literally just play 6. And then Gruene ask what are the reads and Cam say he throws it to the the X reciever, but doesn't call him the X just points and say the guys name. And Gruden asks what the next reas is and I forget what cam says, but there's not another reciever he would throw too.
I'm not trying to relate this in anyways, just I remember that interview all the time.
Yet only one of them is still somewhat relevant in the NFL and it isn't Mallett.
Oh yeah I picked that one wrong big time
Mike Norvell was hired when Fuente left and came from ASU. The "Darrell Dickey was actually the offensive mastermind" theory has been well discussed on here before, but Corny was calling plays, not Dickey.
you're correct. fixed above.
I never saw anything that said Corn was calling plays at Memphis. I read the opposite actually. If that is true then really... what the hell happened to make him go from competent to incompetent ?
Memphis's offense in 2014 and 2015 ranked 35th in SP+. I almost wonder more now (6 years in the future) if there was some substantial overhyping of Fuente's offensive prowless because Memphis was so terrible before he got the job. His teams scored a lot of points in a G5 conference but didn't make it look easy all the time. It's not like Memphis was running out top 10-15 offenses while he was there.
I'm not a big Fuente critic at all. But the irrational exuberance about Fuente being a QB whisperer and Offensive guru before and in Y1 was downright comical.
Yep, agreed. And i' m calling myself out on this one as I was very exuberant at the time.
(I'm gonna put this here as a contribution to the conversation, but not necessarily a direct reply to you.)
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fuente caught lightning in a bottle at Memphis. He got to develop Paxton Lynch for 4 years and had an offensive scheme that when executed well, was beyond what G5 defenses could handle. I also think he brought the wrong offensive coordinator to Blacksburg. I guess he and Corn were good buddies going way back to Illinois and Fuente chose to bring his buddy as a favor instead of leaving him behind. If you thought he was a QB whisperer and Offensive guru then you bought into media hype. Pure hype. He's not a QB whisperer, he just had 4 years to work with one guy. He's not an offensive guru, he brought a scheme from TCU and taught it to a rag tag G5 team and executed against G5 defenses.
I've also said before that every coach has a ceiling and the Peter Principle says that somebody is going to get stuck dealing with a coach finding his ceiling at some point if it isn't P5 football or the NFL.
Given this, it sounds like in 2016 we totally fluked our way into the ACCCG and proceeded to score a lot more points on the eventual national champion than Ohio State did (they got blanked by Clemson). Yes, I've seen the argument that we had a lot of good, veteran players, but we weren't doing much with them before Fuente got here, and by your argument, Fuente should have underachieved with them as well. But we won 10 games, had a more than respectable showing against Clemson, and had a hell of a comeback against Arkansas.
I don't buy that we could have lucked our way to those results. And that is the most maddening thing - it seems he's capable of those results, maybe it was lucking into having the right players who could execute the offense? Maybe the offensive staff doesn't know how to identify and recruit the players they need to be successful. Whatever it is, I think he's capable of more, just can't recreate his success, so, like I said, maybe it was the right players that he lucked into. But if that's the case, that shoots a big hole in him wanting to be the best developmental program out there.
This seems like a LOT of hindsight. We were excited because he was an up-and-coming coach who'd turned around a program in DESPERATE need of help. We needed some turning round after the last few years before he got here. And yes, Memphis isn't a world beater, but the idea is they aren't getting the same caliber of recruits there that we'd be able to get at Tech, so it seemed like a logical conclusion that we'd do better. Just because it didn't turn out doesn't mean there was no cause for optimism. It felt like the right type of hire given the money we had.
It's not remotely hindsight for me. I said as much here and other places six years ago. People were acting like coaching the likes of Andy Dalton and Paxton Lynch (who I thought would be a bust) made him somehow unique in QB coaching circles.
I'm pretty sure at the time I asked...was his QB resume really that much better than even Stiney's resume with, say, TT and LT (and add in Glennon and Randall)?
I bought all of that too. That is what was sold. I was wrong.
I think Fu called plays at TCU for a while, but I don't think he was the main architect of the offense there by any means. I'm sure someone could be entrusted at some point with calling plays but it doesn't mean they designed or fully understand the workings of the system.
Straying a little off topic perhaps, but if Corn was still learning, I'd be ok sticking with him longer. The issue is he has lots to learn but there isn't any evidence that he is. Or at least there is no evidence of application of anything he's learned.
The problem is that Corn doesn't appear to be learning. It doesn't seem like the offense has improved at all.
He shouldn't be learning when he's a coordinator at the P5 level - especially at a school who's goal is conference championship game appearances. And even if you said that was okay (and maybe you say any coach should always be learning), you'd want to keep Kill or a Kill-like mentor for him on staff. Who exactly is he learning from? Teaching yourself is usually one of the worst or at least slowest ways to go about learning stuff.
Paxton was also QB for multiple years at Memphis and the offense probably did build from year to year. Fuente never had that at VT. QB carousel year after year.
How much of the carousel is because Fuente can't decide? Hooker, etc were here for multiple years and still could be here if they aren't shown the door.
They left because Fuente decided they weren't starting. Hooker had his chance to keep the starting job last year and couldn't get it done. Even the best programs don't have veteran backups, just highly regarded freshman.
Hooker left VT to become a backup at Tennessee, which is likely the same position he'd have had at VT.
If anything, Fuente is probably a bit too honest.
He's the starter for Tennessee now and he's better than Burmeister by every possible way you can measure a QB.
Wins?
Hooker has won more games as a VT starter than Burmeister.
It's a silly metric though. Hendon Hooker lost to a much better UVA team in 2019 than the 2020 UVA team that Burmeister beat (with mediocre stats). Why compare those things as equals when they aren't?
I meant this season since you mentioned Tennessee
He also played more games as a VT starter than Burmeister.
Burmeister has 6 wins out of 8 starts at VT.
What was Hookers record at VT?
You're right, W/L is a silly stat, but aren't you the one who tried to argue it?
Hooker won some easy games in a commanding fashion, but also dropped a few of the tough ones that looked winnable.
I see them as comparable quarterbacks, but the jury is certainly still out on both of them. It's not quite the slam dunk you're pretending. I'd like to see more out of Burmeister before discounting him altogether.
This is a fascinating take from a guy who wants to blame all of last year's losses on the defense
I never said anything resembling that. Feel free to use an actual quote, in context.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Edit:
In thinking about this, however, our defense struggled last year. So it was at least part of the problem. Part of the problem with an over-simplistic analysis is that people try to heap all the blame on on aspect of play, when it's a team sport. The defense was trying to get it's bearings last year.
I'm glad VT has a better defense this year. Not perfect, but better. now if only they can work out some kinks and have a serviceable offense that can score some points.
He brought up wins, so no.
I dont know why but that doesn't "feel" like four words. I know that it is; it just feels off. maybe its the contraction. maybe its the syllable count?
either way totally agree
He's the starter because the starter was injured, not because he won the starter job. He'd likely have been the backup at VT, too.
And while he looked good early in the game vs Florida, he didn't win it. (I only watched the first part of the game, but he didn't score after I stopped watching.)
2021 stats for:
[backup] Hendon Hooker: 65.7%, 613 yards, 8.8 ypa, 7 TD's-1 Int --- 136 yards 4.4 ypc, 1 TD
[starter] Braxton Burmeister: 61.3%, 746 yards, 7.4 ypa, 5 TD's-1 Int --- 140 ruyds, 3.2ypc, 1 TD
The career numbers only make the comparison favor Hooker even more.
Those stat lines look very similar and don't make either look very good to be honest.
Considering Hooker's stats are in 1.5 fewer games, I'd say his look pretty good compared to BB.
Go look at his stat lines for each game and tell me that they really look that much more impressive. This is really a stupid conversation in general. If you've actually watched both play this year, both have looked extremely average so far.
I'm not saying Hooker 4 Heisman. I'm saying the more productive quarterback left the program.
Those stats make the two qbs look like they're in the same class to me.
Hooker has played against Pitt, Tennessee Tech, and current #10 Florida
Burmeister has played against UNC, MTSU, WVU, and Richmond
Pitt and Florida are better than anyone we have played
Hooker LOST to Pitt and Florida.
Tennessee lost to Pitt and Florida. I think you, of all people, would recognize that this is a team game. Hooker did his part.
That's really not important to what he or I was saying with the stats.
And your point?
Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Nick Foles did. Does that mean that Nick Foles is a better QB than Dan Marino?
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl...
Eli Manning won two
I mean by these standards, Marino was a friggen scrub!
My point was that you're going down a real rabbit hole when you start comparing quarterbacks by quality losses.
I didn't say a damn thing about the result of the game, only the teams that each played that developed the stats that you said 'puts them on an even playing field'.
When one is playing significantly tougher teams than the other and putting up similar numbers with less snaps than the other, you don't turn around and say 'well, they lost, so he clearly sucks'
I didn't say "he clearly sucks".
What I said is that the argument that you're trying doesn't seem clear cut to me. The stats seem to me to be more similar than different.
It could work out the way you guys are saying, but so far it's not obvious.
whatever, I'm not going to argue.
You know darn well what we're trying to say, and are just being argumentative for the sake of the argument.
you're on crazy pills man. You're trying to argue that Hooker isn't better than Burmeister but when presented with the stats to suggest that Hooker is, objectively, performing better than Burmeister you try to pivot by saying that Hooker lost those games so therefore our evidence is null. It just doesn't make any sense. Especially in the face of the facts that have been laid out that Hooker has put up better numbers on fewer snaps against better competition. Like, can't you just admit that Hooker is (even if marginally) better than Burmeister? No body in here is saying that Hooker should win the Heisman or anything. Just providing evidence that he his factually more productive.
Yep. Its such an obvious bad faith discussion right now.
I just suggested that the stats are similar.
When was each player playing in each game and when were they putting up their numbers? I don't know the answer, but the numbers QBs put up - especially with small sample sizes - can depend upon what is required from them in those games. Were they ahead or behind? Was the real enemy the clock or the opposing team? Can QB x play more aggressively the QB y for a variety of reasons? Does QB x have a greater chance of a mid-game anxiety attack than QB y? And so on.
Looking at those numbers through less than 4 full games played by the two QBs, IMO it's a fools errand to try to draw any real conclusions from them.
Saw this tweet, made me think of this subthread
over a full ypa, over a full ypc, higher comp% , and more TD's on 31 fewer attempts.
Their numbers are similar, but Hooker's are better in every way other than raw totals, and those are close despite less volume for Hooker.
Anyway, the point of that comparison was that he was referred to as a backup as an insult, and has such similar (and better) stats than our starting QB who has taken primary reps in all 4 games. It seems Hooker will be the starter moving forward but they've not announced it officially yet after starting the last two games. He did get hurt late in the Florida game though so we will see if he plays this week.
I'd argue that they're comparable at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hooker, but I'm not seeing that this is as cut and dry an argument as you're pretending.
I thought Burmeister and Hooker were both viable options, with different strengths and weaknesses. My assumption was that Fuente like Burmeister because he perceived a higher ceiling, and at the end of the day you have to pick one.
This did not age well
Likely have been the backup at VT? Because he would have lost out to a guy he beat out last season?
And again, as mentioned above, winning is not the responsibility of the quarterback. HH doesn't play defense, catch the football, or coach the game.
He straight up got benched in the Clemson game and didn't play against UVA. If he was going to be the starter he wouldn't have transferred.
did you watch the Clemson game?! There was something very, very wrong with Hooker leading to him performing poorly, leading to him getting benched. It's not clear what was wrong with him and we'll likely never know the full details but there was something else going on there beyond Hooker just not playing well. Clemson game aside, Hooker played better than Burmeister in 2020. There is objective evidence to support this claim.
Yeah dude if you're going to reference the Clemson game then you didn't see what HH looked like on the sidelines.
And if you want to talk about benching, reference the Carolina game. BB put up 3 points in 1.5 quarters, Hooker comes in and puts up 45 the rest of the game.
2020 stats:
Rk Player Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A. TD Int Rating
1 Hendon Hooker 98 150 65.3 1339. 8.9 8.6 9 5 153.5
2 Braxton Burmeister 48 85 56.5 687 8.1 8.0 2 1 129.8
Hooker was better than Burmeister last year by every measure.
Burmeister has done nothing this year to suggest he is a better option for our offense than Hooker.
So far this year, that seems true.
But Burmeister (hopefully) has a higher ceiling than what we've seen.
so, would you say that Fuente and Cornelsen (hopefully) have a higher ceiling than what we've seen?
He had every chance to prove his ceiling against poor defenses like Richmond and Middle Tennessee. If he hasn't shown his ceiling yet, we're not going to see it.
COUNTERPOINT: We have seen his ceiling and it is the roof.
dammit
Happy to have given this it's 23rd upvote
Burmeister was better in the last two games of last season than Hooker performed at any point that year. By the end of the season he played like garbage and that's why Burmeister was brought back in. It's transparent why you strip away context when you argue for Hooker.
Burmeister was bang average against a bad UVA team. That performance (15/22 212 1TD, 36 ruyds) didn't send me into a manic frenzy of excitement over his future as our QB.
What about the context of our offense looking like garbage and digging a huge hole against UNC with Burmeister, only for Hooker to come in the 2nd half and make it a game with the offense humming?
Please, please, I'm actually begging you to say out loud what is so "transparent" in my belief that Hooker is a superior QB.
Care to defend this with any actual arguments?
Those stats above against UVA were better than Hooker against L'Ville? Pitt? BC? UNC?
Also, Clemson was the first of the last two games of last year. 10/12 127 yds, 6 ruyds for Burmeister.
I've gotten into the same argument a few times on here. I really don't see what anyone sees that says Burmeister > Hooker.
The only thing you can maybe say is Hooker seemed like he had some tendencies other teams were able to key on. He was very one read and run. He was shut down by teams who had him figured out, and rekt teams that couldn't. Burmeister seems a little more capable of scanning the field but is very noodle armed so it almost doesn't matter because he can't get the ball to the receiver when they are open.
And it still doesn't matter because Hooker is starting for UT and BB3 is the starting QB at Virginia Tech. I personally am a Virginia Tech fan so I will pull for BB3 to succeed instead of bemoaning the decision of a 20 year old to transfer.
What? I'm sorry, but framing this as "bemoaning the decision of a 20 year old" or implying that anyone here wants BB3 to fail is completely missing the point of this thread. It matters in the context of critiquing the various decisions made by Fuente, one of which is the way he's managed the quarterback room. HH (as well as QP)'s decision to transfer wasn't exactly made in a vacuum.
Burmeister has been missing wide open players all year, and missing wide open running lanes.
The idea that he has some type of special ability that will elevate this offense is laughable. Out of Hooker, Burmeister, and QP...QP should have been the choice because he offered the most upside.
You stripped out the context of whatever was wrong with Hooker in the Clemson game in your comparison to Burmeister.
Plus, we had Herbert doing well most of the early games in the season so we didn't NEED Hooker to do more, which probably would have given him the chance to look better. But by the end of the season, I think he was a little banged up, and most importantly, some teams figured him out. There's that context as well that you ignored in the comparison.
Posted this in the Offensive Stats thread. We've had 6 QBs in 6 years.
Offense was the same at Memphis as at VT. Go watch the tapes. Memphis did some things better, and VT (last year) was better at the outside zone read than Memphis ever was. But the fundamental bread and butter plays are the same. Inside and outside zone read. Inverted veer jet sweep. QB lead RPO. The high low waggle to the right in the red zone. Verticals, slant-flat combo, crosser pick plays, clear out verticals with a screen under. It is all the same stuff.
The difference is Memphis 1) had a big armed QB that would give his receivers chances to make plays while not turning the ball over 2) Memphis skill guys sold out blocking/running/route running every play and the coaches have never gotten that out of their players in Blacksburg consistenly.
Honestly, I think I could make the argument that the run game is more diverse now than it was at Memphis. Passing game... tough call. I think they are more predictable now than the Memphis era, and that predictability plus the lack of flow due to players not getting the ball taking plays off really hurts the system.
I am also on record as saying BC isn't a good OC and Fuente should have been let go after the UVA game. But, I think Evans is full of it when he talks about the differences between Memphis plays and VT plays.
Disturbing listen, but not unexpected unfortunately. Most people don't believe that fuente has good people skills based on the last few years of turnover and rumors from former players. Where there is smoke there is usually 🔥
Except for all the former players even the ones that left for other programs or ones in the NFL who still come back to see him, have a great relationship with him and still defend him. There are always two sides to a story.
We all love Sam Rogers and Sam LOVES Fuente
So we all Love Fuente? Is that how its supposed to work?
It was just a specific example of the point above. Some players absolutely love Fuente. We can't paint him as a guy who none of the players like - it isn't true. We can dislike him for other reasons. The nicest guy in the world who everyone likes doesn't make that person a good football coach.
"It's a joke son," Rhode Island Red from Buggs Bunny.
If Fuente treated every player like Jerod claims he was treated, he wouldn't be a coach. Clearly many players like him, but it's also pretty clear a good amount don't.
The operative works is "claims" we don't know the truth of what went on between them, but for some reason this is taken as gospel, hell someone on social media said that VT needs to "investigate" Fuente over his treatment. I'm firmly in the it's time to move on camp but this reeks of a narrative to fix what the player did wrong by jumping to the draft way too early.
Not sure if you've listened to more of Don's podcasts but more than one former player (Kumah, Alleyne) said that Jerod always planned on staying on year at VT. So I doubt he sees that as a mistake when it was seemingly always his plan.
And you're right, we haven't heard from Fuente (and won't) on Jerod, but we've heard half of that story, so we can't just deny that any of it is true.
Jerod crushed records and got Fuente a contract extension after year one and Jerod literally never gets mentioned ever when it comes to the football program except for by fans. That to me is nuts.
Jerods own words make it seem like he wants less to do with the program than it wants with him.
Because there is no relationship with the HC after he left the program. You're leaving out the major part to that.
I think that Fuente doesn't have the skill or desire to work through issues with players he or other coaches have disagreements with.
Judging from his comments about fans, I would say if he is equally dismissive and contemptuous of players opinions it would explain a lot.
Spot on comment! He seems like the type of people manager that is fantastic when you click with him, but whenever there is friction he'd rather move on than try to solve the problem. A total anti-Beamer in that regard.
But like I said, that is how it seems. Maybe he really does care and always tries to fix the people issues, but is like Michael Scott and ends up making it worse instead!
I definitely don't think J. Evans gets nearly enough credit for how good he was.
Likely partially from the way he left.
I certainly didn't fully understand it at the time, but after 5 years of watching QBs fail to progress under this Staff it makes much more sense.
I will say this, his comments about having Chicago scouts following him came off as a bit naive--there are a series of steps between being evaled by a scout and having a serious shot at that team's NFL Roster.
The lack of really any relationship with Fuente is troubling...Fuente comes off more and more as a "my way or the highway" guy who has little to no tolerance for variations from his way/system. If you are a Recruit listening to this....it definitely would make you pause for sure.
The fact that his JUCO was running a more complex Passing scheme than VT is both disturbing and, well....unsurprising at this point.
Good college qb. Didn't have what it takes to be a pro qb - and it wasn't that close. I taste the sour grapes - hopefully fermented.
I do too. I think there is a lot about Fuente that is warranted, and I'm sure both he and Jerod have their faults about how their relationship went. That said, Jerod Evans never should have left for the draft early. He was never going to be drafted, and it was very unsurprising to say the least when it happened. This def smells of sour grapes as well.
My exact reaction during this podcast:
How can he complain about the offense where he threw for 3500 yards with 29 TDs to 8 INTs? Not to mention 800 rushing yards and 12 TDs? I haven't listened to the podcast yet but seems like he may be trying to rationalize his decision to leave.
I mean Vick said his high school offense was more complex than VTs (Bustle's scheme) and he was a heisman candidate as a freshman. Evans also had the top 2 VT recievers to throw too, and the top receiving TE. Whats the saying about Jimmy's and Joe's vs X's and O's?
Or ice cream and pie😋
Evans mentioned he walked into a locker room with veteran leaders and dawgs. That's not lost on him in this interview.
I literally just watched a podcast where Vick said himself that that offense at Tech did not click with him his first year in the program, and that he could not process playbook when he got here.
I cannot at all reconcile that with your comment.
Vick was 18? Evans 22?
Just because he said his HS plays were more complex isn't mutually exclusive of the college playbook not "clicking." Maybe he understood the plays, he just didn't understand why you'd run them vs running something else, or maybe didn't get why they were blocking certain ways for certain plays.
Despite the record breaking results, maybe he didn't expect to run the ball 204 times in one season when he signed up to lead the offense.
Paxton Lynch had 113 rush attempts in 2014. These obviously weren't under Corn but just for comparison, the max rushing attempts for Tyrod in a season was 147 in 2008 and Logan Thomas' was 174 in 2012.
edit to add: In 2016, RB1 Travon McMillian had 145 rush attempts. The same year Jerod had 204.
Not mentioned in my OP:
Evans also praised Bud Foster a lot. Shows how much Foster meant to the locker room and staff. Reminds me of when Gallo sat on the 50 after the Pitt game. It was Foster who came out to get him.
Kumah said the same thing in his interview with DonV...keep in mind these are OFFENSIVE guys shouting out Coach Foster...seems like he was and still is loved by all
They love Bud because 1. He knows his shit- brilliant football mind. 2. He's real. "Ronny stop dragging that fucking knee and make a play"- to Ronnie Van Dyke at a practice I saw.. Van Dyke had a huge smile on his face and proceeded to blow up an RB on the next play. Bud is real, players from all decades see that.
man i really wish the vandyke brothers never got injured. just an awful string of luck on and off the field that couldnt have happened to better people
The most surprising aspect of this is that there will still be people in here beating the drums of support for Fuente even after listening to it.
It's almost like the folks who want to give Fuente more time are going to dismiss this, and the ones who want him gone are going to use this as an example of how terrible he is.
It's likely neither either or. The truth of the situation is likely a great deal more complicated.
As a Fuente defender, I'll let yall know tomorrow after I listen.
Frank Beamer inherited a program on probation, sharing a locker room with the baseball team, no conference and no apparel deal. He made 425K a year. In year 7, he won the independence bowl and was on his way to the hall of fame. Fuente inherited a team that had gone to 24 straight bowl games, won 7 conference championships, play in a sold out stadium and firmly entrenched in the ACC. While the program was bit down, it was still winning, going to bowls, beating UVA. On Fu's first team were first round picks- Edmunds - and guys like Settle, Ford, Phillips, Deablo, Chuck Clark. There was talent on that team- no denying. I'd argue that he hasn't developed or recruited that level of talent since he has been here. Hat tip on Darrisaw- credit where due, but what WR has he developed? Tavion and Tre? They are not as good as ford or phillips for example. How much more "time" does Fu need?
Nijman? You mean Darrisaw? Nijman was a 4* and committed in 2014 to Frabk Beamer.
My bad, yes Darrisaw
I think you're underselling the drop off between 2011 and 2016. Recruiting has been down under Fuente but this year's class is back to a normal level. Player development has been hit or miss depending on position group. O line, TE, and DB have been good. WRs have suffered under Jafar Willliams. Before him Tech had Wiggins (WR coach at Alabama) and Aaron Moorhead (WR coach for the Eagles).
DB development and recruiting was orders of magnitude better under Beamer vs. Fuente. Watch some film from the past 2 years if you are skeptical
Caleb Farley was a first round pick and Jermaine Waller is on pace to be the best corner in the ACC. Early outlook on Dorian Strong is promising and there's been a lot of hype surrounding Jalen Stroman for the future at Safety. That's right in line with Tech's historical success at DB.
Also Fu has broken every streak you mentioned. We have no streaks left now.
This really needs to be plaid.
Rorschach test of the current coaching staff.
Also excuse to post this gif
The Pro vs. Anti Fuente contingents to each other in this thread
from Watchmen GIFs via Gfycat
Also a little frustrating hearing him at the beginning talk about how all of this led to him not coming back for a second year, when he let it be known from the start he was only doing one year. He couldn't have played in year 2 if he wanted to.
If I was frustrated being the QB for a one read and go system with Isaiah Ford, Bucky Hodges, and Cam Phillips, I definitely wouldn't stick around the next year when my one read is only Cam Phillips...
Even if it was one read for him, at least the defense couldn't key in on it in 2016.
He said from the start he was gone after one year so the playbook he ran is irrelevant
Yes, you are right so it makes/made the decision for Jerod to leave irrelevant. If this is the way he is trying to spin it now, as he didn't like the playbook and was just trying to boost his NFL status, it wouldn't have made sense for him to stay by his recently stated standards.
Though maybe with an extra year, they could've seen if he'd go beyond one read and go.
nm
I'm done with Fuente and I have been since the Duke 45-10 home ass kicking...
But... I remember thinking Jerod was making a huge mistake leaving early. If he actually Got 3/4 round feedback from the committee, they screwed him over. All of the 2017 mock draft stuff I sifted through at that time did not include him even in round 7.
Literally no one, and I mean no one, publicly stated that Jerod Evans had a good shot of being drafted. We'll never know what confidential conversations he had, but I agree that that comment doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Haven't listed to the pod yet, but...
No NFL team is blackballing a 3rd/4th round QB with no legal/injury issues based on the word of one coach with one season of P5 experience.
The NFL drafts guys that beat women, smoke dope on camera through a gas mask, QBs that start 11 college games in the first round, guys that tear every ligament in their knee senior year in the first round, etc. If Evans fell in the draft, it was because he can't read a defense, not because his alleged tiff with Justin Fuente. That is total BS. The NFL doesn't care about anything but talent and potential. there are literally hundreds of examples that prove this.
This comment rings of the truth.
He wasn't ready, and would have been well-served by another year at VT.
Not sure he'd have made it anyway, but ultimately, the decision was his.
Sometimes, DC has moments of brilliance. This is one of those moments.
You're absolutely right, especially in the QB realm. Jameis Winston and Johnny Manziel are two guys off the top of my head that had much, much bigger red flags than anything Fuente could have potentially said about Evans but still got drafted high. NFL cares far more about potential than character.
Bottom line, Jerod was a borderline prospect who didn't perform well enough in pre-draft activities to get him the benefit of the doubt. Some people had a 3th-4th round grade on him, some had him as a UDFA. From a talent standpoint, he was a very good ACC QB but a dime-a-dozen NFL prospect.
This is all sour grapes from a guy who didn't make it and refuses to take personal accountability.
I will add one thing as well. Not having a relationship with your former HC and not so subtly implying that he tried to tank your Draft potential are very different things.
If you are going to make an accusation like that, you should at least have some evidence or a corroborating source.
I do feel like JE has a valid complaint with his utilization as the numbers bear out that he was used like a rented mule in the Running game and if he tried to discuss that with coaching and was more or less placated, that is pretty crappy.
Would another year at VT have helped his Draft Stock?
I think that's debatable at best...the CornFu track record of QB development in Bburg hasn't exactly been stellar and he had legit concerns for getting injured.
i usually reserve this for TD's on gameday, but this post deserves it
The NFL is concerned about production within a manageable amount of risk.
I haven't listened yet but I'd like to
Just a few things based on what I've seen in the thread
Remember that this is only one side of the coin. There is likely some truth to what is said. It is also likely that there is context missing.
Take anything you hear as interesting information....but with a grain of salt
Also remember that most folks here have already made up their minds on Fuente (either they want him gone or they support him staying) and nobody is going to change anybody's mind on that based on anything from this podcast.
I freely admit that I have been extremely vocal about my desire to move on from Fuente - my opinion on this matter has nothing to do with rumors about Jerry Kill and Cornelsen, or rumors about any of the current or former players and their stories. My opinion is based on the performances I have seen with my own eyes. My opinion is based on how much fun I have (or don't have) watching VT play. My opinion is based on the results on the field and how we got those results. The way I see it, Fuente was hired to bring a modern, competent offense to Blacksburg and IMO he has largely failed on that front. It is inexcusable to have failed to find/develop a QB capable of moving this offense effectively in 6 years. Our best offenses under this staff (2016, 2020) were good as a result of great athletic talents (Evans, Herbert) more-so than as a result of coaching (as evidenced by the fact that, since Evans, we haven't been able to throw the ball, and with Herbert we had our only good running attack which has completely and predictably regressed in his absence)
I thought it was a great interview. Don (I don't know if that's his name, I know him by his Twitter handle) is pretty polarizing for his strong opinions, but I like him. He obviously doesn't like Fu so I think that tainted some of the conversation.
Few things:
1) Jerod said he didn't get developed up by Fu, and we really haven't seen Fu develop any QB yet, but he was only here a year. How much development was he expecting? I was of the opinion that Fu needed a QB, got a mobile QB, simplified the offense so execution would be easy and as a result won the Coastal and put up a great fight against Clemson.
2) Regarding the part about his draft, I think a lot of Jerod's perception is tainted by his disappointment of not getting drafted. There's a lot of people that get a 3/4 grade and go undrafted. The general perception at the time was that Jerod needed to stay in school for another year to solidify his draft position but everybody knew that he was only staying one year (that whole part of the pod was weird. he that he was only going to be here 1 year when he got here and then he implies that Fu leaked it after the bowl).
3) The part about people speculating about why he was leaving...I mean, it's the internet. People say all sorts of dumb stuff. People saying dumb stuff was guaranteed when he left early because people are dumb.
4) That whole Texas AM thing was hilarious.
He was also a JUCO transfer, so it's not as if he was a freshman recruit. It may be true that Fuente never refined his skill, but at his age and experience there isn't that much more development to be done.
I don't think that's true. There's still development in the NFL
We are 4 games into this season, 3-1 is a nice spot to be, leading Coastal right now, with UVA and UNC having losses, ACC is wide open! Fuente has his players, the QB continuity excuse is gone, Burmeister has been around, played last season, had Spring, Summer, and Fall. The youth excuse is gone too; experienced players throughout the offensive roster. The D has done their job so far this season, and we will see if it continues, but they are overperforming expectations to this point in the season.
Statistically, the offense has been the worst Fuente has fielded in his time at VT. Losing Mitchell and Dzansi shouldn't create that type of major drop off, and we had both against UNC, and the offense struggled to get points on the board for much of that game. We did not utilize Mitchell nearly enough in that game. The UNC defense is horrible this year.
With all of that in mind, and locker room and player issues aside, if CornFu deserve to keep their jobs, then they need to show that they can coach this offense up and go make at run at the Coastal and the ACC. If not this year, then when? If the offensive struggles continue and we end up 4-4 in ACC play, it'll absolutely be time to try something new. Cannot blame QB injuries, transfers, attrition, coaching changes with Bud, youth, Covid...all the things Fuente has had to deal with in his first 5 years, much of it not in his control, is done and over. There is literally no excuse left at this point. We have talent, they should be going out and performing.
I'm just praying that we don't see losses to ND and our next couple ACC games, and then Fuente reveal that Burmeister has been playing with a bum throwing shoulder. I hate the feeling that the scenario I just described is as probable as CornFu righting the ship and winning the Coastal.
And if they try to pull that excuse, they should be quickly reminded that their handling of past QBs is why our only legitimate backup option right now is Knox Kadum rather than Quincy Patterson or Hendon Hooker (or hell, Braxton Burmeister)
The underutilization of Mitchell pisses me off. The guy, in my opinion, has Kyle Pitts type talent but wasn't used much last year or this year (until the injury).
I don't think he's going to get many targets the rest of the year
Too soon man....too soon
That's kind of a weird comment. Second half, I agree but the first half was really good outside of the King fumble.
We had 4 drives in the first half. 2 resulted in TDs. I'd stop short of calling that "really good" but it was definitely not bad. That second half was garbage though. I think we all agree on that.
We had one three-and-out, the other three drives were 80, 75 and 56 yards respectively. I'm looking more at the yards than the scores.
But yeah, second half was awful.
Sure, but yards don't win games. Scores do. The offense moved the ball well in the first quarter and then kind of disappeared a bit in the second quarter. Then they forgot to come out of the locker room after half time. We're fortunate that either a)our defense is fantastic, b)UNC isn't as good as everyone thought, or c)some combination of those two. I don't think anyone who knows anything about college football would have believed being told, before the game, that UNC was only going to score 10 points. 17 points doesn't often win in this era of college football. It did on Sept 3 and I'm thankful for that. But it just isn't sustainable. I don't think we can win the ACC if we're only scoring a couple times a game.
Well, I understand your point, and yes, CornFu is good at the scripted early drives, but 17 points is not enough to win the Coastal this year and you don't win games in the 1st half, you win games in the 2nd half.
And there it is! CornFu found their excuse for what will eventually be this season's failures...Burmeister shoulder injury.
Really doesn't matter to a lot of people. He is in year 6/1 of his program but he only has one functional QB in the room? What happened to all of the other four star recruits... Oh wait...
Did anyone else notice the part about how a inspiring halftime locker room talk by Sam Rogers was a major key to the Arkansas bowl game comeback?
Yeah I'm listening to the podcast now and that stood out, but for some reason I feel like I already knew that. Perhaps another player mentioned it on a different podcast or during the Sam Rogers AMA.
Wasn't that already pretty well known for years?
Regardless of whether any of this is true, our offense, in-game coaching, non-adjustments, roster management, recruiting, etc. has been sub-par for years. I don't care about Corn's record breaking stats, which by the way, I hope he would break some of the previous records recorded by, say what you may, average to below-average offenses prior to his arrival. Also, it was a different game a decade or two ago. The stats are negated by all the above and a lack of scoring, 3rd conversion, and Ws. Sorry, this offense f-ing sucks right now. Tell me otherwise, please...
Overall, I thought the interview was very insightful, at a minimum, just to hear Jerod's football story minus all the other stuff. Interesting he sees the same offense play out on TV and can't bear to watch it. How many years, QBs, and lack of Ws do we need to go through to realize, well this program's lack of success was created and is managed by incompetent folks. Even to a novice who played high school football, some of the crap we see on TV simply has no explanation.
Watch, we will beat ND and then loose a ton of ACC games which will display the same inexplicable coaching garbage we have seen before.
Only thing I can take as not biased to jerods point of view in the interview without hearing the other side of the story is the stories from the games.
I found a lot interesting and I'm sure what others have iterated; he's disappointed in his *perhaps* over confidence in betting on himself and leaving for the draft. So now he's trying to justify why he didn't get dragged. Who knows what played into his draft prospectus but DC put the nail on the head; NFL doesn't care -- if you're good they'll take you.
Best point I can't muster from it is perhaps validating what others have questioned before regarding the offense. It's typically one read, not many deep passes or crosses, and the offense was most likely conceptualized by fuente with cornelson in attendance. This would make sense as to why fuente is so offended when people question the offense and refuses to acknowledge its flaws previously.
Otherwise it's he said she said with I'm sure details left out from the other side that would tie the whole truth together.
The person interviewing him is awful. Dude baited him into half the shit that he said. Seemed to me like he had more of an agenda than Jerod had. Overall the whole thing sounded like a pity party.
Dude is trying to be provocative instead of spitting facts. He's pretty awful.
Edit: just removing this not worth going down the road of who's podcast portrays what.
I mean I do agree with the message, but if that was the case, he would have been done in for last year. Lots of prominent people are still dumbfounded how he's still coaching this program after last year.
.
Bud Elliott just a couple weeks ago said Fuente is a good coach and has a good scheme, he just needs to recruit better.
He literally had the Sons of Saturday guys on his podcast, one of which is Billy Mitchell who is a huge Fuente supporter and former player himself so you are entirely wrong on that already.
Confirmation bias....it'll get after ya...
I'll be honest, I nearly changed my mind about continuing to defend Fuente. I don't like that a former player feels he's being mistreated by the HC. Doesn't sit right with me.
Reading a lot of the comments, there seems to be a fine line between he said/she said and Jerod's personality, overconfidence, or ego. Only a few responses confirming their previous reasons for firing Fuente. I'm actually surprised by this. Maybe it is more Jerod than it is Fuente, we don't know. And knowing Fuente, we won't know.
As long as results hold (8+ win season and Coastal title/shot), I'm supporting Fuente, the staff, and the players. Corny needs to go, but it's not happening. So, I'm going to support what we have, and if Whit decides at the end of the season to burn it all down, fine, I'll support the new guy.
As for the former players coming out and having these conversations, so much of it is 2018 and prior. Even Dax has stated publicly the locker room is a different atmosphere than when he first came to Blacksburg. Fuente has dropped some of the military, hard nosed shtick. Veteran leadership was missing in 18 and even 19. CC over at TSL made his now infamous bad apples post. Let that play out this year, and we'll see how these players respond next week and in the coming month.
Last point, Clay Patterson is legit, and we could use him on this staff. Has ties to Corn, Fu, Kill, and of course, JRod.
I would want him to replace Jafar but would want someone with P5 OC experience to replace Corn.
Maybe possible he's looking for a new gig at the end of the year, Minnesota looks like a cluster this season.
Evans was a good college QB, played hard, and was exactly what VT needed in 2016.
But his frankly delusional self-assessment of where he was as an NFL QB prospect at the end of 2016 (and probably still in 2021), I have to take his comments related to the entire situation with a sizable grain of salt.
Seriously.
The NFL only has so many slots for for quarterbacks, and some level of success as a quarterback at the college level does NOT guarantee one a spot.
The choice was ultimately his. But there should be no regrets at this point.
His best odds of becoming an NFL quarterback would have been to stay at VT another year, and he was told that at the time.
Yea, I'm glad he is confident, but he has had multiple chances now and no one else is seeing it the same way he is.
For all the players that transferred or left early, it seems most had their best opportunity at VT. Seeing the results afterward seems to demonstrate this. There are a couple right now that are making good cases at their new spots, but the percentages are against the majority.
Maybe the ones who arrived with decent talent and left the same would have been more talented (or maybe not left at all) if our talent-less O-staff could develop talent.
Let me increase the size of that grain of salt... his self assessment came at the beginning of 2016, not the end. He had decided he was only playing one season at VT before setting foot on the field, and his diligence in the classroom reflected that plan
Fire Fuente
Except at staying warm...
Clearly Hendon blamed the second fumble in the Clemson game on being "cold" because he got benched after the first fumble...he got in his feelings and quit. Then couldn't handle his shame and blamed it on being cold. I get it it's annoying be worried you're gonna get pulled all the time but that was the end of his VT career right there
there's a whole lot of speculation in this shitpost. And no empathy. This is a terrible take.
Now you are right...I am speculating and probably spent way too much time on this went it first happened. But it seemed pretty obvious to me when I watched, took all the post game quotes, next day quotes, and Hendon was in the transfer portal 11 days later
You must have been watching a different game than I did. I do not know what was wrong with him, but it was 100% more than just being cold.
He was self admittedly "too cold"
Temperatures during the game dropped into the low 30s.
"The trainer came to me and told me that he was cold," Fuente said. "I don't know if there's something more significant or serious or what with that.
"I've never seen that before or heard of that before."
If you watch the game again you can see he was Very miffed on the sideline he got benched after the first fumble...then after the second fumble he said he was too cold to go back in...never played another snap for VT
Yes. He was cold. But obviously he wasn't the "I forgot my jacket to walk the dog" kind of cold. You're implying that he's just a wuss. If the training staff told Fuente he couldn't come back in the game that leads me to believe it was more than a few shivers
Lol true that is a good point. Speculating again though if I'm Fuente or any coach and my trainer tells me my qb who just fumbled twice on National tv against the number 1 team in the country is too cold to play...Im not going to be pleased to say the least.
I was a jerk in how I phrase my initial comment. I think hendon is very tough I mean he willingly takes a lot of blows. I do think that he was maybe having a little bit of a panic attack after fumbling the second time. He was already pissed off that his coach benched him after the first series on national tv against the number 1 team in the country. Then there was the cold aspect too...it wasn't Hendon's day
His dad also confirming he was too cold
"He wasn't having a seizure or anything, it's a natural reaction to the cold," Alan Hooker said. "You just can't control it. It's not something you can fix with a coat or a heater."
Interesting tid-bit, why in the midst of a huge comeback bowl win celebration would he chose to pull JF aside into the training room and tell him he wasn't coming back. Why then? That couldn't have waited until a bus ride or the next time on campus?? Speaks to the maturity, or lack there of, of Evans at the time. That's just selfishness.
When was the last time the NFL drafted a QB that had 200 rushing attempts in a season - maybe Cam Newton after a record setting Heisman campaign. Anyone that told him he was going to be a 3/4 round pick doesn't seem too informed of the the NFL views as a prototypical QB.
Lamar Jackson went well beyond 200 but he's a freak athlete and definitely an outlier and not prototypical.
260 in 2016 (Heisman season)
232 in 2017
insert "Not bad for a running back" quote here
Evans did have the physical measurables (6'-4" / 240) and in the Hurricane game he clearly outplayed the QB taken as the #2 draft pick. However, as time goes on I am less surprised Evans wasn't drafted, and more incredulous that Trubisky was, especially at #2.
I've said that probably since the draft. I think the eval miss was more on severely over estimating Trubisky rather than grossly under estimating Evans. Its somewhere in between skewing more towards Trubisky being questionable overrated
Don V's interview with Mook Reynolds is available now.
Its pretty good. I miss Mook him vs Arkansas was a great individual game. I got really confused when they started talking about Drue Tranquill (who was a LB at ND) in that game turns out he meant Drew Morgan (the guy that spit in Mook's face).
I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but looks like Tre liked it