I read this article that thinks he should consider switching positions.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000277736/article/logan-thomas-jord...
What do y'all think?
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Here we go again
If I wasn't at work, I'd grab that Dead Horse picture
For one game in 2009, I seem to remember Jared was introduced at halftime. That was one of the most random guests I can remember at Lane.
You mean this one?
Haven't we all had enough deceased equine flagellation?
Yes. Yes we have.
quiet you; or you'll end up like your friend
Well it has been debated a lot before, but now that it's the end of the season I'm curious as to whether this would be a good move for him.
I believe he is in San Diego right now working with George Whitfield. He is a QB and will be a QB in the NFL.
He's going to be a QB for at least 2-3 years in the NFL. If after that period he's struggling he will most likely switch positions, go to a different league, or quit football.
STOP IT! JUST STOP IT!
As long as he gets paid, I am happy for him. But, other than hoping he is successful, I am not discussing Logan Thomas on this site anymore other than to share fond memories of his play.
What about speculation regarding whether he is on TeamCake or TeamPie?
With his history Team Pancake would be my guess
Newsome should open a diet pancake house.
It could feature pancakes that dissolve as soon as the fork touches them, and a revolving door.
Newsome already has a chain of stores, called Waffle House.
Yes, a workout with an NFL team is the perfect time to do something he hasn't done since high school. This guy is completely right. /Sarcastica
i wish there was a sarcastica font...
The real question should be: Starter or clipboard holder. If you saw Scott Tolzien and Senecca Wallace step in for Rodgers, I have faith that a spot on a roster can be found for LT. If I cared I'd look at the long list of QB's clocking checks in the NFL and have all faith that they will see what he can bring to the table and give him a roster spot.
This gem. (Video made before reacquiring Matt Flynn)
They're clocking checks and I'm checking clocks...is it 5 o'clock yet?? Thank you TKP@work!
Well said.
TIGHT END TIGHT END TIGHT END. I'm done now.
I feel like a hater when I think Logan should be/should have been a tight end. The guy gave it everything he had for Virginia Tech. He had offers to any school, and he chose Tech. The only way I would feel right about supporting Logan as a tight end in the NFL is if he decided to go for it. At this moment, he is mentally and physically preparing to be a QB. He deserves all of Hokie Nation's support.
THIS. Very well said.
Ditto what Fernley said!
100% What smitty said.
So we should all go for it and get behind Logan and provide support to his tight end...
um..wait..
damn, now the image is in my head already.
I'm going to defend abarri9 for posing the original question, because it's a legitimate one to ask. It's different than the "Put in Leal!" and "He's a TE playing QB" memes that spiralled out of control while Logan played at Tech.
I hope Logan has a long NFL career. If I was a head coach / general manager my mentality would be to bring him in as a QB, but have him moving positions as a backup plan. If he's drafted, that's my guess for what will happen. Most NFL coaches think they can coach any player up, and will marvel at Logan's athleticism and upside. Also, a prudent GM will see there's less risk in drafting him because if he busts at QB, he good be a stud at TE.
Precisely!
If I were an NFL GM, I would look at Logan as a QB3, TE2 with upside to be a good starting QB and a Pro Bowl Caliber TE.
Look at the current Pro Bowl TEs:
Jimmy Graham - played 1 year (barely on the field) of TE at the University of Miami - was Bball star
Vernon Davis - TE all throughout HS and College (the outlier)
Jordan Cameron - Entered BYU to play basketball - transferred and played 2 years of WR at USC
Julius Thomas - Never played football in his life until his Sr year 2010 at Portland State, where he was a basketball star
My point in this. Pro Bowl Caliber TEs are gigantic athletes with Manimal skills. Many enter the NFL with little to NO football knowledge (seriously, how much did Julius Thomas learn at Portland State). Logan's football knowledge is HUGE. Logan will be an Pro Bowl level TE and this is why I think he'll be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd Round. He may get his shot to try out to be the 2nd or 3rd string QB, but I really believe he'll become an NFL stud at the TE position.
Yes, if Logan stubbornly insists on playing QB like Tebow did in the NFL, there's a 99% chance that he'll be a career backup. He has a much better chance at becoming a starting TE.
Not sure why anyone would downvote this... turkey leg for your opinion, sir.
Thanks, it doesn't surprise me. There are some people on this site who take any comment about Logan Thomas not being the best quarterback ever as a personal attack. My opinion is that he is a good quarterback, but not great enough to be one of the 32 starters on a NFL team. The best qualities of LT have always been his physical attributes whereas accuracy, touch, and the "cerebral" side of playing quarterback have always been his weaknesses. So to me it's clear that his strengths lend himself to being a TE where he can really excel without being hampered by his weaknesses.
I really think he can be a great TE. The way he runs and the positive yards he makes after contact already remind me of some great NFL TEs.
Considering no one has ever seen him play TE, other than his physical stature, how do have any idea what his strengths (or weaknesses) would be at the position?
Watch the manimal gif. That's all you have to see.
There is a reason he was ranked the #1 TE recruit coming out of HS. Size, athletic ability, good hands. Playing WR as a sophomore in HS, he had 55 receptions, 950 yds, and 8 TDs.
I have no doubt that LT is athletic enough to play basically anywhere, but everyone seems to be focusing entirely on the receiving aspect of being a TE. Has anyone ever seen him in pass protection? Blocking on a run? I suspect he's strong enough to do these things, but he's never done any of them at the collegiate level, let alone the increased level of competition in the NFL. There's a serious learning curve there. One could argue rightly that he as a learning curve in terms of being an NFL QB, too, but at least he's been a QB for his entire college career, so the baseline is higher.
You could say the same for a lot of the best TEs when they turned pro. In fact, Logan probably has more experience at this point in his career than a lot of them because he has been around football longer, knows a lot of plays, and understands the big picture by knowing what plays are like from the perspective of a quarterback. .
It's true, we focus on the receiving aspect as that's what gets TEs notoriety, highlight reels, pro bowl invites, and huge paychecks. You can become a TE star without being good at blocking. Just like what this article on Jimmy Graham says.
There is a learning curve. Graham did very little his rookie year (31 catches 356 yds 5TDs), but became a pro bowler year two (99 catches 1310yds 11 TDs). Julius Thomas was drafted in 2011, did nothing for 2 years, and became a pro bowler in year 3. Graham and Thomas were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds, respectively, and simply based on potential. The NFL is a copy-cat league, and I'm guessing many GMs are drooling over Logan's potential at the TE spot.
UVA has seen it...
That video always gets a leg from me. LT was moving around like a heat-seeking missile on that one. It doesn't suggest to me that he can be a TE, though, since it's a scramble-type play where him simply being bigger than the other guy equates to a hell of a hit. I can see LT playing different positions at the next level, don't get me wrong, because he's just an outstanding athlete. Wherever he's drafted and for whatever position, I'll be happy for him. I just think it's a flawed argument to say "he played WR in HS, so clearly he can catch, therefore he can be a TE in the NFL."
Yeah, I think we're on the same page. I just want to see the guy have a long and successful NFL career (at whatever position he ends up) after everything he showed and did for Hokie Nation in his 5 years.
I 100% agree. My post on the WR stats in HS was to prove he has really good hands, which is one requirement to be a good NFL TE. He also has the size and the athletic ability. His football knowledge (thanks Loefler!) is an huge plus. His basketball skills will also benefit him. Everything about his skill set screams Pro Bowl potential at TE. And every NFL GM will see this.
Fair argument. LT will succeed at the next level somewhere in some way.
There's also a reason he was seen as a top 5 pick as a QB after his sophomore year. We won't know until this spring how much that perception has changed. My guess is less than most think.
LT's deficiencies can be improved upon with coaching and repetition. But you simply can't teach 6'6'', 250lb with mobility and arguably the strongest arm in football.Why on earth would an NFL team consider moving to TE a guy with the prototypical body and physical skill set as a QB and is the career leader in most passing categories at a major college team (with little talent and coaching around him for the better part of that time) without giving him a good hard look at QB?
Will he succeed at QB in NFL? I don't know. So much depends on things that aren't even performance based. But this notion that NFL teams would/could/should think TE first, QB second is as ludicrous as the calls for a "QB competition" with Leal.
exactly. And well stated. Turkey leg for you, sir.
I agree with everything except your very last point. I actually disagree more strongly with you on the subject of a QB competition with Leal. There definitely needs to be a competition and that is NOT ludicrous at all. Leal will be at the top of the depth chart going into spring but there will be a lot of talent coming in that will push him for the job. If there isn't a competition no one is going to get better. If Leal starts the season...more power to him..but you just CANNOT ignore the fact that Motley could take that starting job from Leal fairly easily.
Thinking that Leal is a shoe-in for the QB job and that our season is doomed if he doesn't start is far more 'ludicrous' than an NFL team picking up LT at any position
pretty sure he was referencing the calls for Leal to get playing time over LT this last season.
The calls for a "competition" were ludicrous, because the notion that there wasn't a competition is ludicrous.
There was a competition in the same way that there is a competition for the New England QB job (or, better yet, the Commonwealth Cup). And like the competition for the NE QB job or the Commonwealth Cup, when the competition isn't EVER at all competitive (as it certainly wasn't with Thomas vs Leal, et al), it really isn't worth the energy or disruption to explicitly pretend it is.
The coaches and the players certainly understand this is how it works. How a sizable portion of the fanbase could be so oblivious to it is a mystery to me.
EDIT: I just realized that you thought I was referring to a competition next year between Leal and others. I was actually referring to Thomas vs Leal, etc in 2013. Nevertheless, whether they come out and directly state it in public, there will be a competition for the job for 2014.
But it's not as though an evaluation of all the QBs hasn't occurred already and my guess is that the coaches have probably determined that the gap between Leal and the others is big enough to not go through an overt competition. And I think Beamer still sees the downside of the Tyrod-Glennon situation and wants to avoid if possible. But rest assured there is always a quiet competition going on and if somebody gives them enough to make them re-consider, they will. The coaches and the players understand this even if the fanbase doesn't.
I now see you're referring to a QB competition in 2014. I was referring to 2013.
Nevertheless, pronouncements aside, there will be a competition in 2014 as well. It's not as though the coaches haven't been evaluating the QB candidates already; they have and my guess is right now (for better or worse) they see the a large gap between Leal and the rest. I think Beamer is a fan of picking a QB and giving that guy confidence (and there is loads of evidence to support such an approach), but I think he's a bigger fan of giving his team the best chance to win. If the coaches see an upside to someone else over Leal, they'll go there. But just because they aren't making a show of it, it doesn't mean that they've stopped evaluating the best options on a daily basis.
The reason why he was seen as a top 5 pick as a QB was because of his potential. He has the measurables and has the physical ability to make every throw. The reason why NFL teams would consider moving him to TE is because it takes much more than measurables to be an NFL quarterback. You have to be extremely accurate, have extremely good decision-making ability and reads to not turn the ball over, have excellent pocket presence, have the ability to improvise and throw touch passes when needed, etc... It's no wonder why there are so many busts when college QBs go to the pros. Quarterbacking is a skill that few are ever able to master.
But with TEs, more athleticism is more strongly correlated to success at the position. From the examples earlier in the thread, we know that the requirements to be a great TE are something like... really tall, athletic, physical, and be able to high-point the ball. That's it. You don't need to read the defense every play. You don't have to decide on the fly whether to throw the ball, hand it off, or keep it. A lot of the issues that have shown themselves repeatedly throughout LT's career will not be a factor if he moves to TE. Instead, his success will be more dependant on pure physicality, which has always been his strength.
I think you're assuming waaaay too much.
NFL TE athleticism is still very high end athleticism. Beating the LB pass coverage specialist that every NFL team has is not an easy thing to do. Assuming that he runs a VT timed? 4.7? and therefore he can get open or is big enough to physically get a ball even if he is not open is quite a leap. Lots more goes into that. The saints, patriots didn't just pick these guys up at 7-11. They were tremendous athletes they took a chance on and it panned out. The NFL has probably taken similar chances on many that didn't pan out.
Logan is a smart guy. VT has noone capable of saying he is not cerebral enough to run an offense. He has had the beginnings of the collegiate playbook in his first year under someone who seems like he may develop into a competent or better OC. The years prior were a joke. Assuming he is not smart enough to run an NFL offense is pretty offensive, and assumes lots of facts not in evidence.
Most of you fans on here aren't smart and/or hard working enough to become OCs. You don't even get that when there is no blocking, when there is no running game, that defenses adjust and make the space you have to execute and be successful very small. This is college football 101, yet most of you people run stats of LT and compare them against healthy successful well balanced programs and or prior years. VT is not that program and it is unfair to make those comparisons. We literally suck at offensive football and this is why we have so many from the state of Virginia turning away from VT.
We get that LT should be open to TE. If it turns out that he can beat NFL coverage LBs like rented mules, I hope he considers it. TEs quality of life can be very good see Tony G who seems like a reasonably healthy guy retiring from a long career.
Saying that he is too dumb to run an offense is offensive assumes facts not in evidence and annoying in line with your moniker.
Now that seemed rather angry
I was fine with this until you started accusing fans on TKP of being dumb.
Anyone else find it slightly ironic and comical that this sentence comes from VT_Slacker?
Not tryin to be mean or anything, just something I found amusing.
The fact is, he has the measurables to be a successful NFL TE. You're the first person I've heard who has doubted that.
The basis of the "cerebral" comment was not a judgment on how smart he is, just how intuitive he is at playing the quarterback position. There are a bunch of great football players who aren't intelligent, so there's not a lot of correlation there. Football is a game of milliseconds. There is very little margin for error. Even if you're smart and are able to fully analyze every situation, that doesn't mean that you'll be able to come to that conclusion before that linebacker shoots the strongside A gap. Being intuitive (see Tyrod or Manziel) will give you a split second advantage in order to make that play successful. If you analyze LT's play, you'll notice that he just isn't intuitive. His pocket presence is poor, he doesn't see a lot of wide open receivers, his reads on the triple option are often incorrect, his hesitation on handing the ball off on option reads often throws off the rhythm of the play, etc... I know that you're probably saying to yourself "oh thegadfly is just personally attacking LT again", but before you respond, just look at the film. I'm only stating the facts based on the vast amount that is available on him. Experts did not drop him out of the top 5 picks for nothing, and the reasons I stated above are all contributing factors. I'm not calling him dumb, that's just your interpretation.
Sure, LT may very well be able to learn and master the art of being a quarterback. However, what I'm saying is that he has a much better chance of starting as a TE than to fix a lot of the issues with his QB play. A lot of issues that are related to just being intuitive at quarterbacking. If I had seen consistent improvement (similar to that of Auburn's Nick Marshall this year), then yeah, maybe I would agree that he will be a QB in the NFL. Unfortunately, he regressed a little during the end of the season and has not shown much consistency at all throughout.
Thanks for the ad hominem, by the way. You're the perfect example of a poster who gets personally offended at anything you deem a slight criticism of LT, and then feels the need to angrily attack and/or downvote that poster in return. Just calm down dude, I'm not personally attacking you or LT. I'm just stating my opinion based on the facts.
My biggest problem with your argument is that it also takes preparation and learning to be a TE, too. Admittedly not nearly as much as QB, but has Logan practiced route-running, blocking, or pass catching in the last few years? If he has at all, it wouldn't be nearly as much as he's put into being a QB.
I hope he makes it in the NFL in whatever way, and I think he will. But if the man wants to be a QB, I am all for him trying to make it as a QB first.
Yes, but as we've seen, you don't need much experience or preparation in order to be a star TE. To switch to another position after putting in a lot of time at a different position sucks, but it's the logical choice. I want to see him make it in the NFL too. I just think he has a much better shot as a TE.
This is nonsense. A few guys have done it, but far, far more have failed.
Logan Thomas' best shot right now is as a QB. And whichever team drafts him, it will be as a QB. And almost certainly they are not going want a guy with LT's potential upside at the most important position in sports working out in training camp at TE because what he needs is reps, reps, reps at QB.
It's unprecedented for a quarterback with LT's completion percentage to be successful in the NFL. Many quarterbacks have failed in the NFL, and even a Jarmarcus Russell, with all of his physical tools, could not succeed. It's simply more likely that Logan's physical talents give him a better chance at playing TE. It may not be likely, but at least it's not unprecedented.
Completion percentage is maybe the most accurate indicator of success in the NFL given a large enough sample size
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=3350135&src=desktop
Russell didn't work hard enough to compete in the NFL. Showed up to camp weighing what, 280? Once again, look at the players around Logan. His completion percentage suffered because of their play. Was every throw perfect? No. But look at Manziel, Winston, Carr, really any other big-time QB. Every time I watched them, they'd make throws that were just not good decisions, not good throws, whatever. The difference between a pick and a completion/TD was that they had ridiculous playmakers (Benjamin/Greene for Winston, Evans for Manziel) who not only caught the balls they were supposed to catch, but bailed out their QB when he didn't make a particularly good throw/decision.
Now, back to LT3. Not only did he not have a big-time receiver to bail him out, until at least the midpoint of the season, and arguable all year long, he didn't consistently have a guy who could catch every ball he was expected to catch. Logan's accuracy has been inconsistent at times, but he's also made some big-boy throws that only a handful of QBs in the NFL can make. Keep in mind he's only had one year of competent QB coaching too.
I don't disagree with the opinion that he can start as an NFL quarterback. However, I don't think the opinion that he has a better chance at starting as a TE is "ludicrous". I guess we'll find out in a few years, but yes, I can see both sides of the argument.
THANK YOU. This. Let's wait a few years then beat each other to death once we have all the facts straight. Good, glad that's cleared up.
you did read that link you posted right? Its trying to argue that completion percentage is a good indicator, but fortunatly for us they compare it to the "upcoming 2008 draft". Here is what your 'source' claims will happen:
*Matt Ryan - compares him to Patrick Ramsey and Rex Grossman (LOL!)
*Brian Brohm - claims he should be a first round pick to be excited about (more LOL!)
*Joe Flacco - article says to pick him up as a late round flier (LOL!11!!1!one!!)
*Chad Henne - here's a quote from your source "He is a virtual lock to be at least an above-average professional"
So in short, its probably good a lot of teams ignored this advice
He compared Matt Ryan's completion percentage to Patrick Ramsey and Rex Grossman.
He said Brohm would probably be a late first round pick. He ended up being a second round pick.
While Flacco had a high completion percentage, the author said that he thought he'd be too much of a risk due to the low number or starts and the level of competition he played in division I-AA. This isn't an argument against completion percentage, it's a lack of sample size and competition, which increased uncertainty.
Henne had a better rating that Eli and Flacco this year, but yeah, I don't think he's above average. He does play on a shit team though.
Well we know from watching his runs that he is physical, plus he has the measurables to be an NFL TE. We don't have much film of him catching the ball or blocking (but we have seen him catch a few balls and deliver some crushing blocks), but as the OP illustrated, you don't need someone to have a lot of experience at that position. A lot of those guys were just good basketball players (another parallel to LT) who took up TE in the NFL. You need to be extremely accurate as a QB in the league, and given that plus the above, I believe it is more likely that LT will have a better chance to become a starter as a TE.
I know it was high school, and he was a big fish in a small pond, but I believe he had around 700-800 receiving yards as a sophomore.
... at wide receiver.
He did play quarterback in high school, but he worked out at camps and combines as a receiver/tight end. At one of the combines he was called a baby Tony Gonzalez by one of the coaches. I personally believe that he can be an NFL quarterback and have been proud to have him represent us over the last three years. But I also believe that he can be a very good tight end at the next level also.
I can't believe we are still talking about this...now lets get down to more important things, like talking about converting Bucky Hodges to TE.
That I am truly excited to see!
I am excited too. I have never seen a 7'2 guy playing tight end. *the guy grows every time someone posts about him*
Bucky is starting at center for the basketball team now...
FYI-He has grown 2" in the past half hour....
I'm thinking of starting a new religion...The Holy Church of Tight End.
I shall convert you all.
I think they have this already. Aren't catholics all about tight ends?
1) this made me spit my drink on my screen 2) fuck both of you for making me do that 3) absolutely hi-larious and 4) See what y'all did there.
Has anyone ever seen him block a DE or LB straight up? I can't imagine that an NFL team would look at Thomas as anything but a QB until that possibility is exhausted. And if that happens, he'll likely be at least 25 years old...probably too old and too highly paid to be learning a new position.
i bet logan could put some people on their behinds blocking straight up.
Do TEs block DEs or LBs straight up? The most prolific receiving TEs typically chip and help block. He's the same size as Jimmy Graham, and bigger than Julius Thomas, Vernon Davis, and Jordan Cameron. In the NFL, his potential at TE is much higher than QB. And with the success of TEs with barely any history of TE experience, I'm pretty certain many GMs will risk a draft pick to get a potential Pro Bowl caliber TE.
If he plays tight end and Kam Chancellor blows him up I may have to hang myself. Do I cheer or cry?
They answer to your question is... YES!
Plot twist: Logan Thomas enters the draft as a PUNTER!
Another plus about Logan being a QB is that he'd be a legitimate receiving threat if his team were to run a wild-cat every now and then (Sorry Joe Flacco).
Obviously, this reason isn't enough to keep at QB, but if you see him line up wide, someone better go cover him.
That wouldn't surprise me. Now if he enters as a power forward....