With the end of the Fuente era seemingly (hopefully? thankfully?) on the horizon who would you want as our next head coach? In the past offseason I was a huge Tony Elliot guy but it looks like he may have been a product of Trevor Lawrence? Jeff Hafley has the defensive background that fits our history, comes from a big time program in OSU and has P5 Head Coach experience, no idea if he's reasonable though. How do we feel about Chadwell, Billy Napier, one of the Georgia coordinators? Genuinely curious how people are feeling about various candidates.
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I'll put more up when I'm not drinking, but I think Napier should be the #1 option followed by Fickell who seems unlikely at this point. I think we end up with Clawson or Elliott tbh.
At this point I'd be psyched with Clawson
Like everyone, I've been thinking about this a lot, so here are my new coach tiers
I'd be thrilled if we hired
Billy Napier: Louisiana HC (I think VT fits him perfectly, but now that LSU is open he may be the top candidate there. LSU is arguably a top 5 job in the country. He comes to VT if he thinks the leash at LSU is too short and the schedule too tough. But with the ease of recruiting to LSU, I find it unlikely he turns it down if offered)
Luke Fickell: Cincinnati HC (Now that Cincy will be joining the Big 12 & he's already got them to #2, don't think he leaves for anything other than PSU or OSU. Ohio lifer through & through)
Dave Clawson: Wake Forest HC (likely will recruit better at VT than WF and has shown the ability to outperform his talent. It's much easier to win at VT than WF. His long meshpoint RPO offense is unique. Clearly a good developer and scheme coach, but talent acquisition is a question and would be key to his long-term success at VT. This is who I think we end up with)
Jeff Hafley: Boston College HC (pls)
I'd be pleased
Tony Elliot: Clemson OC (offense is struggling, but he'd be hired to build a culture & recruit, not to coach offense)
Bill O'Brien: Alabama OC
Bob Stoops: Fox Sports Analyst
Mark Stoops: Kentucky HC (He's got a cushy gig, but may be raising expectations too high to consistently meet at UK)
I'm open to it/let's see how it plays out
JHam: VT DC
Jeff Grimes: Baylor OC
Marcus Freeman: Notre Dame DC (only 35)
Jamey Chadwell: Coastal Carolina HC (no P5 experience makes me wary)
Brent Pry: Penn State DC
Bill Bedenbaugh: Oklahoma OLine (I've floated this name before, elite recruiter)
Scott Satterfield: Louisville HC (on thin ice with fanbase, diminishing returns, but still seems promising)
Tony Alford: Ohio State RBs/Assistant HC
Please god no
Hugh Freeze: Liberty HC
Gus Malzahn: UCF HC (couldn't develop a QB at Auburn)
I saw Bill O'Brien and my initial reaction was oh god no based on his last few years in the NFL, but then I remembered he turned around PSU in a very short time after probably the worst scandal in sports
I hadn't thought of this (and no idea if he'd be interested) but BOB would actually be a great hire.
You'd have to have a conversation around exactly why his time in Houston was *such* a disaster but his college resume is impressive + he has connections in PA, GA, NC, MD etc.
I think Clawson makes a lot of sense. Great coach and developer of talent. Also fits the good guy, clean program and academics-first mold VT wants. Many will knock his recruiting and say he is only successful every few years when he has a bunch of seniors. But he's never really had the resources to recruit (Wake is the smallest P5 school by far and has the smallest athletics budget). Maybe we could really build something and be the Stanford of the East in terms of football. I know VT would be thrilled with that.
I've seen Clawson's name bandied about quite a bit and it looks like he'd be a great hire. But would he really want to leave WF for Tech? Is it Orange & Maroon glasses thinking that he'd want to come here or are there legit reasons?
More than double his current salary, more football tradition, far more resources for assistants and recruiting than he's ever had. He's doing way more at Wake with way less.
NVM
What allegations? Is there an article? Was it just one player who was mad about something?
I remember reading a article somewhere. Let me dig and see if I can find it
Huh I can't find it. Maybe I imagined it the whole time
Maybe that's what he wants you to think
The only thing I could find related to the WakeyLeaks thing. I couldn't find anything not related to that.
I wouldn't be too scared of LSU hiring Napier away from us. Their AD, Woodward, prefers the big splashy hires that cost a lot of money. He was the one that hired Petersen for Washington and Fisher for A&M. He may see Napier is small fish.
Yeah I'm hearing similar things in the 24 hours or so since I posted that. I still think Napier is high on the list but if he ends up at LSU it means they whiffed on a couple other options. Makes me much more hopeful that he could land in Bburg.
Fisher is the one to watch, Mel Tucker is the fallback
If Fisher is the one to watch then why not swing for the fence and offer Nick Saban? LSU doesn't have A&M money.
The AD at LSU is the one who gave Fisher that ridiculous contract at A&M with no buyout. Me thinks he did that for a reason.
you're not wrong, but i laughed. message board analysis of cfb coaching carousel is pretty much just
I had heard Fisher had a $90m buyout but maybe that's only if A&M wants to can him
Correct. Nothing owed if he leaves on his own, as I understand it.
Behold... Luke Tenuta
I feel like it is a crap shoot. Blue-blood programs do not have a high success rate at hiring coaches that are consistently better than the rest of their conference.
It is really hard to step into a head coach position in the Power 5 and consistently out recruit, out hire, & out coach proven coaches. Coaches that have proven the ability to do those things are probably not economically feasible for VT.
The things that stand out most to me about the Fuente era is the impression that:
My biggest fear coming off of Fuente is hiring a guy who has never been around a big time program and doesn't know what it takes to win at this level. Jamey Chadwell is a name I see come up a lot but he does absolutely nothing to check this particular box for me, no matter how impressive he's looked at CC.
Agreed on this need big stage name would rather take a big time p5 coordinator at HC than anther chance at the g5 upgrade
Meh, i disagree that we should eliminate all candidates without P5 experience.
Personally, I'd be very happy with Chadwell if we include some elite recruiters on staff, eg if paired him with a Will Muschamp as DC. That said, there are many other good options out there as well.
If Chadwell comes, he's bringing his guys. So there won't be any splash recruiting hires and no Muschamp types.
Based on where VT is in the cfb pecking order (top 25-35 program),
Can we really call ourselves at top 25-35 program at this point? I'm legit questioning it.
We are # whatever we are willing to pay for a coach/staff. The ACC Coastal is one of the easiest paths to the playoffs in the P5 and Blacksburg is a quality place to live. If we pay a competitive salary, there will be no shortage of qualified candidates when Fu leaves.
I'm as disappointed as anyone right now (how can the QB room be this bad ) but VT has gotten exactly what it has paid for; and if there are in fact significant future increases in the investment in football, a lot of that should be credited to Fu who has made a point of it with the administration.
Top 25-35 Program (not who would win this year, but alluring to coaches and recruits, and ran well), sure, easy.
The ACC is suck a cluster that its hard to argue that any one other than Clemson is better than us. NC State has the most consistency from the Atlantic. FSU should be a better program and will be once they figure themselves out in another 5+ years. Its hard to argue anyone in the coastal is a better program. Pitt might be the most consistent but I dont think many coaches would look at Pitt as a better place to catch than VT. Recruiting is tougher there too.
In the Pac 12, USC and Oregon are better programs, Utah is ran well but tough to say its a better program. Stanford I could see the argument for but they haven't been good in a bit, but solidly ran program.
Big 12 has OU, Texas, OSU. Iowa St is better right now, but tough to say the rest are better program than VT.
Big Ten has aOSU, Mich, Wisc*, MSU, PSU, and maybe NW. Barry Alvarez is supposedly a pain the work for, but you can't argue with how solid Wisconsin has been. NW is tough because like Stanford the results aren't there but facilities are fantastic and they have been a solid program.
SEC has UF, UGA, Tennessee, Bama, Auburn, A&M, LSU. I dont know how I feel about both Mississippi teams, Kentucky is doing well because of Stoops and probably wouldn't continue if he left.
For the rest you have Notre Dame. Cincy is better with Fickell but I think that's more coaching staff and not the program. BYU has been good for a while but tough to recruit. We shall see with Boise.
So that is 19-20 teams that are definitely better than us. Then another 5-10 maybes.
Look at VT as a whole, schedule is winnable, facilities are better than most (Fuente has worked on this), staff size is growing (again Fuente), VT is the big boy program in its state, it has a decent recruiting area in-state, can get a top 25 recruiting class, has a rabid fan base, will stick with a coach to give them a chance.
There is a lot going for VT. Its still a good job for lots of coaches. Smith, Price, and Hamilton have been recruiting VA hard this year and it shows.
EDIT: completely forgot about Iowa, they have been well run for half a century, great stadium atmosphere too.
You have me sold. Where do I sign?
Very well said.
I'd put Iowa above us too at the moment
Thank you for going through the conferences and all of the teams for me. I started to last night and then just bagged it because my brain was on overload.
He has made Coastal a bigger time program than Tech right now
I understand the frustration but a couple year run at Coastal Carolina does not add up to
Yeah I think "more nationally relevant" is a better way of saying it and stings just as much
Not even close, and in 2 years whether he's there or gone nobody will know who Coastal is again
I want Hugh Freeze because just like H.I. In "Raising Arizona," I feel that he has successfully rehabilitated himself.
Freeze is the definition of white thrash. Fuck him.
White trash can coach football, and take a player we didnt want and make him an NFL ready QB in Willis. Freeze made a mistake, and tech did too in hiring fuente. Fuente couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag
Which mistake are we referring to? Paying players and giving other impermissible benefits? And it sounded like it wasn't just one or two players, but Hiring escorts (apparently over a couple years, and on the university provided cell phone - so not just unethical, but stupid too)? Lying about the escort call that they found initially? Bear in mind that the benefits thing caused a two year post-season ban, three years of probation, 4 years of banned scholarships, and 27 wins (of his, 33 total) vacated. What about any of that makes you think he's a good person who won't make the same "mistakes" again? Just because he can coach doesn't mean he isn't a scumbag that could win at Tech, but leave us with vacated wins, less scholarships, and post-season bans. So even if you say he's changed (but apparently he professed to be a devout Christian before any of that stuff, so seems even more likely it's all lip service), how sure are you of it? And how willing are you to live with the consequences if he hasn't changed? Because there's the suck we're experiencing now, but the 3-5, 1-7, and 2-6 conference wins Ole Miss got after he left were probably a fair amount related to their sanctions and whether players were willing to go there and not be able to play post season (and less scholarships).
That university provide cell phone is more like tax payer funded cell phone as ole miss is a state school and Freeze was a state employee. So missuse of tax payer funds is more like it.
I can remember a not so distant past in 2015 where the criteria for the new coach was, at the least, someone who would win "the right way" like Beamer did. Maybe the rest of the fanbase is finally desperate enough to not care about that anymore, but it's still a no from me dawg.
You're definitely not alone. There are plenty of us out there who want nothing to do with HF.
Not to mention I don't want us linked to Liberty anymore than we have to be. Anyone that they have employed can keep walking...
Freeze, Napier, JHam + track record proven OC/DC.
Honestly I know I'm gonna get ridiculed for this and a year a ago I would have said I was crazy, but Justin Hamilton. What he's done with this defense has been nothing short of amazing. Just like today, we expected dean ferguson to be a liability, but outside of one drive and a short field our defense killed it in the first half. He adjusts on the fly. He understands Virginia tech culture, his defense is recruiting well. With the right pieces around him he could be a home run
I don't think it's too bad of an idea, we would need home run coordinator hires and proven recruiters though
If (big if) VT does make a change, we absolutely can't afford to screw this one up. I like JHam a lot, but he is not ready to be a P5 HC. With the right staff I could see him staying onboard because he does have a lot of potential. But we can't just give him the HC job.
Unless you're bringng in a legacy VT guy at HC its incredibly unlikely that jham stays around. Part of attracting head coaches is letting them set the staff.
It's a catch 22 with JHam he's universally loved but you either get all of him or none of him.
I have warmed to this idea as well. jHam has proven to be adaptable, resilient, and his defense adjustments have been great. He faced a ton of adversity during his first year, and came back to prove he could install his defense and succeed. With the exception of the d line being gassed and losing Dax in at the end of the ND game, his second halves have been as good better than his first halves. And you know he is passionate and connected to the heritage here. You would absolutely have to pair him with a no brained OC, and even some veteran defensive help as well. But I believe he would be viable as out next HC.
The issue with Ham though, is who does he bring in? Who does he even have coaching connections with? I doubt there's a lot of proven talent from the UVA Wise-VMI pipeline that I'd be itching to get on the sidelines. If you save money going the Ham route, you can invest in coordinators...but who would they be?
If (and that's a big if) we were to consider FCS coaches, VMI's HC has done wonders in Lexington.
For real not knocking you, but I find it funny that "he adjusts at halftime" keeps getting mentioned as a reason JHam could be a head coach. Have Fuente/Cornelson really conditioned us to think that halftime fixes are some miracle? Lol...
I agree, half time adjustments aren't some miracle that will lead us to the promise land, but they at least show that the coach is creative, and willing to adjust their game plan. The adjustments might not always work, but it shows they're not just going to blindly follow the game plan they developed 4 days earlier.
While not all flexible coaches are good, all good coaches have to be flexible.
Maybe not, but being able to make halftime adjustments is better than not being able to. (Cough, cough, Corny).
You would absolutely have to pair him with a no brained OC
That hasn't worked out too well for us so far/s
You clearly meant "no brainer," but what a hilarious typo
Obviously that was not my "expected outcome" but damn the D and R keys are close to each other. Leg.
I could maybe go for this, but I feel like Fuente would have to be fired end of October and him takeover and do well as interim.
Then he needs to bring in best OC money can buy.
I'm a huge JHam fan, and I'd love for him to get a shot at VT HC.
I would be in favor of this option. December 16th is when another 2.5 mill comes off Fuente's buyout. Professionally Babock can not just demote the Fuente and make Hamilton the head coach nor can he make him fire Cornelson. Fuente would balk at both options. In looking at from a management and finance point of view, Babock best option is to pull the trigger now and fire Fuente and put Hamilton in charge if they lose to Syracuse. The season is shot at that point. Hamilton can demonstrate how he manages the team and it gets an earlier start on the next coach search, if things do not appear to be getting better with Hamilton then he also has the option of sticking with Hamilton for another year at a reduced head coach salary and allow him to find a quality OC at the end of the season.
There are probably way more qualified OCs we can afford out there than head coaches without big salary demands. I just hope Babock doesn't let a past decision of keeping Foster as DC impact his decision the next time if he goes the new head coach route. From a management point of view, Hamilton is part of the program he understands the culture and appears to be improving at his job. Pugh has been an upgrade at defensive tackle over Tapp. For me the decision is simple.
I think JHam has a ton of potential. He also represents quite a lot of risk. The question is, how high is Babcock's risk tolerance?
I think the best case scenario for JHam is being named interim HC in a few days and letting him take the rest of this season to kind of show what he's made of (obvious caveats not mentioned). That gives VT and JHam a little trial period to try each other out and see where it goes from there. I don't think VT loses to Syracuse. If they do, I don't think Fuente gets fired. If he does, I think it's unlikely JHam is named interim. So, really, all of this is a pipe dream. But I would love to at least kick the tires on JHam because I really do believe he's going to be a rockstar coach. He just needs his chance.
I guess it is the pessimist in me, but I think being named interim HC might be a WORST case for JHam. JHam's background is defense and it is looking like he has a good grip and developing talent there. Making him HC without prep, planning, etc is potentially setting him up to fail.
My thoughts are if Fuente is relieved of duty or fired, Corny is almost sure to leave or be asked to leave. That leaves JHam with no offensive experience being asked to fix the offense for the rest of the year. If that doesn't happen and the team goes 1-5 down the stretch it will look worse on him.
For his sake, I kind of hope that Fuente sticks around to the end of the year and the defense just keeps getting better. JHam can then either impress the next HC or make an argument with Whit for the job with an actual plan of who or what offense he would like to run.
I agree. I don't understand why people are obsessed with hiring him as our next HC. I'm fine with promoting him to interim HC if Babcock fires Fuente, but he has too little experience to coach a P5 program right now. He's only been a DC for less than 2 years.
He should be interim for our bowl game only, after Fuente is fired the 16th
LOL!! If Fuente isn't fired before the 16th there won't be a bowl game. Actually, even if he's fired before the 16th there probably still won't be a bowl game. We have to win 3 more games. I'd say BC and Virginia are probably losses. That means we have to win all of our games against GT, Duke, Miami. I find it highly unlikely we win all 3. I bet we win 1, maybe 2. I think GT wins this weekend. Then we lose to BC and beat Duke. Then finish the season with two big losses to Miami and Virginia
I think Duke may be the only win the rest of the season.
and even that isn't guaranteed...can you imagine the laughing stock we'll be rolling into Charlottesville for our last game sitting on a 3-8 record? Fuente should have been fired last year. The fact he wasn't should make everyone who follows VT absolutely irate.
Interestingly, Duke has 3rd highest (in ACC) yards per game at 471.4. We have second lowest with 330.3. Duke has 3rd lowest points at 27, we have 2nd lowest at 23.7. Shockingly, Clemson has lowest yards/game at 321.3 and points per game at 20.0. Seems like Duke can move the ball, but is bad at converting drives. They also allow the most yards and points per game in the ACC.
it seems like just about every bad defense we go up against has their "get back" game against us. If Duke is struggling defensively there's a fair-to-good chance they'll have their best defensive performance of the year against us, holding us to a mere 17 points on their way to a 20-17 victory. I'm so sick and tired of these damn coaches. Fire everyone. Fire them now.
After we lead 17-7 with 5 min left.
I'll throw $20 on a bowl game. Think Vegas has about 44% odds, so it's definitely not a remote possibility. Every team left on our schedule except UVA sucks and Duke is horrible. And we aren't losing to the Hoos
I'd take that bet. I'll double it on the Hoos too. $40 says we lose to the Hoos and miss a bowl game. You in?
If we only do one of those things it's a push? I'm in for sure. Go Hokies!
I wish I was as confident as you are. I really think we lose out, except for Duke.
I'm with you for the most part, but think we have a chance against BC as well. Not sure you've had a chance to look at their actual results, but I looked through and am not impressed. I think that game depends largely on how well our D plays. They weren't good last week, but they'd seemed pretty good in earlier. May depend on whether or not we have Waller back.
"Bowl Game?! Don't talk about Bowl Game. Bowl game, you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game." - Current VT Fanbase via J Mora
This was my exact thought when I read that comment. Leg for you.
Depending on how the contests is written Whit can do pretty much anything he wants. I think it was Vandy that demoted its basketball coach a couple years ago to not pay the buyout. It really depends on contact language.
We need someone that can get a staff together than recruit too.
I feel like getting coaches from big time schools is tough.... its gotta be a lot easier to do well when you get your pick of 5 star players (tony elliott).
Jon Gruden. For cheap.
He can rehab his image, by turning around VT Football
/s
Hell no. Keep that misogynistic, homophobic, racist, washed up coach away from my school.
Now he's washed up? lol right
14 wins and 23 loses in his second stint with the Raiders isn't exactly impressive either.
He's sub .500 in the NFL in his most recent stint.
His Super Bowl win came just a few weeks after MV7 almost brought home the BCS trophy to Blacksburg.
He's washed up, irrelevant, and will cost a hell of a lot more than we can afford.
I'm not saying we should get him, but he's not washed up. People fail to realize how Jacksonville bad they were when he took over and the fact they had only lost 1 game with the schedule they've had to face this year until the news came out about him. He's not a good person I don't think anyone would argue that, but he's far from washed
A few weeks plus a couple of years in between.
Let me rephrase that.
His Super Bowl win was before any current recruits were alive.
Well damn, now you're just making us all feel old.
I think Gruden to Tennessee and we get Heupel is the better option. Tennessee fans would get what they wanted during their mutiny a few years back haha
Dave Clawson. If he does as well as he has at Wake, then he should be able to do better at VT. Bigger school, better facilities, historically better program, a passionate fan base. He can obviously coach up his players, which is more than we can say for our current coaches.
He's already a P5 coach, in the ACC, in our region so he knows the area. The only question is how does he recruit? But again, he can't do any worse
Clawson seems like the most milquetoast option to me, but I'm realizing that at this point literally anyone would be better than Fuente.
I will need to look up the definition of that word before I can agree with you. Please hold.
Research is done. Upvoted.
you really going to just post and not enable all the other lazy TKPers out here??? /s
Teach a man to fish...
Just curious what specific thoughts you have.
To me, it looks like Clawson's performance has been about what ours has been, but with MUCH worse recruits (and in the Atlantic with an almost guaranteed "L" each season from Clemson).
Can someone point me to an html table generator? The one I used wasn't that friendly, and, as you can see, I didn't get guidelines and spacing was iffy. Thanks!!!
He recruits well enough to win at Wake
His entire model is player development. Wake recruits pretty poorly but the players stick around for awhile they field teams full of seniors that know how to execute. I don't think there's anything wrong with that but that strategy has an inherent ceiling.
Frank Beamer says that ceiling is high rankings and consecutive 10 win seasons, and one shot at a national championship.
We all know that rankings today vs rankings when Beamer was coach are two completely different animals. Please stop living in the past.
Our recruiting classes that continued the 10 win streak were good classes. The late 90s and early 00s recruiting isn't even halfway comparable to recruiting today
Well, there's could be different ceilings at different schools. He might be able to sell Tech better than he can Wake, which would give him better recruits with higher ceilings. Wake is also a Christian school, so potentially just fewer recruits interested in going there because of that, then there's the recruiting area - his local area he has to fight UNC, State, Duke, Tech, UVA, Clemson, and maybe Liberty (I'm pretty sure all of those are within 2 hours or so, which may be an arbitrary distance - but definitely the first three in NC).
And he's not recruiting bad. In 2018, he got the number 10 player in NC and number 8 player in SC. In 2019, he got the number 3 player in NC and number 12 player in SC. In 2020, WF recruited VA almost as well as we did, maybe better. We got the 14th ranked player, and they got the 18th and 25th. That seems pretty good for competing against a lot of traditionally better football schools that roam their recruiting area.
I don't disagree that Wake is not an easy school to recruit at and probably harder than Tech and he certainly could change that at VT but I don't think he's a proven recruiter. His current model is successful at WF but imo isn't a way to national relevance
I think the Clawson hire being successful is based on the assumption that he could recruit better at Tech. That may or may not be valid. You're right - he's not a proven recruiter, so that would definitely be a risk if we hired him. But I'd have to think we're going to have some risk one way or another with any hire, so the question is what are the perceived ceilings of the different coaching candidates and what are the risks for each. The safest hire (by which I mean most proven success) will be the most expensive. We saw what happens with what looks like a promising hire coming from G5, so would a similar hire of an up-and-coming coach outside the P5 have more or less risk than Clawson's success at a P5 school with the question about recruiting better players to meet his perceived ceiling at Tech? To me, as someone else said, I'd start with Fickell (who is also Einhorn) and make him turn us down. He seems like he'd be the safest (using above definition) hire. After that, there are lots of names that have been thrown around on here, but each seems to have a fair amount of potential risk. I don't envy Whit, but hopefully Arians' donation helps with our ability to get our preferred candidate this year.
His donation is towards the new fundraising campaign, not for buyouts.
is there a reason it COULDN'T be used towards a buyout?
Yes because the campaign has specific listed goals.
https://reach.hokiesports.com/
There's also the other aspect, the campaign donations may give more flexibility to the money they already had (so hypothetically, they have $100k for football scholarships and $100k for coaching salaries now, then get a donation for $100k from the reach campaign - they could use the $100k from the reach campaign for the scholarships, which would free up the money you were going to spend on them for something else, like a coach buyout).
One of the biggest reasons for the campaign is to increase pool of money for assistances salaries. Not to mention the other numerous other capital improvements needed. This buyout is going to have to come from mostly smaller donors and maybe a few middle tier donors giving extra dollars.
All good points. Don't disagree and Clawson at worst puts the team in a better position to win then where we're at currently.
Wake is non-sectarian.
Arguably, VT as an institution has an inherent recruiting ceiling. So, perhaps you have to work with what makes best sense for VT, and perhaps at an institution like VT, a player development strategy is a higher ceiling than a blue-chip recruit strategy.
VT's best years were due to a few sprinkles of 4-stars and rare 5-stars complemented with a bevy of developed 2/3-stars. It's not the 2000s, but player development still works as exemplified at Wake, Cinci, Coastal, and a resurgent MSU (known for player development in the 90/2000s alongside VT). Pitt is currently the most likely to win the ACC, and it's because they developed their team to that level. (e.g., Kenny Picket was a 3-star, 0.85 recruit)
Will Pitt or Wake ever make a playoff? I don't know, but their chances in 2021 are greater than any other ACC team right now. It would be nice to talk about VT that way, even if it's once every 3-4 years.
This is how I feel. Get a top 25 class, develop them into a top 15-20 team. I would love to have a top 10-20 class, but I don't know if that's realistic at VT (because no one's done it before).
What's the feel on Todd Washington. VT guy who might be looking for a job soon if Urban keeps it up. Young guy, has some super bowl rings.
He's not happy.....
Honestly if I am looking at some one with ties to VT then Jeff Grimes. I dont know if he has the personality to be a HC but someone has to have an idea if he could be or not.
Nah, if I recall he bolted from VT after one year to be closer to family out west. Doubt he would want to come back to the east coast.
And even if he did, if he's successful, he likely bolts again.
Exactly. His head turns too quickly to the next pretty thing.
He left to be OL coach at LSU, if I remember correctly. Can't really blame him for that. I would like to see him get an interview, clearly he can coach offense
He'd be great as an assistant / coordinator but he doesn't have enough experience to be the HC.
Clawsom, Napier, Elliott NEVER accepting Freeze would
Prefer not to look at Campbell or Fleck.
Curious why not Campbell? Never heard any negative criticism of him. (not saying that you not wanting him is negative criticism)
Think he would just keep us at the same level as Fuente has.
Leg. We need to get back to 10 win seasons. Done with the 6-8 win mediocrity.
I dont think that's going to happen any time soon. It took a hall of fame coach and the best defensive coordinator there is all while having the perfect flow of recruits from then 757 all while the good teams in the ACC were non-existent.
Recruiting in VA isn't the same as it was. If it was easy to hire a hall of fame coach and the best DC then everyone would do it.
You have to find a coach to fundamentally change the program, not just do well while they were coach. I am not sure in football who has really done that out side of Spurrier, and Schnellenberger. FSU just got lucky. with Jimbo.
Fleck?
You don't want to see "Row The Boat" emblazoned all over Hokie Football?
/s
JHam makes sense, but I'd like to see Holmon Wiggins back on staff.
Heupel was a missed opportunity last year, 😩
Malzahn might take the jump from UCF to VT, but with the move to the Big12, not sure if he leaves Florida.
Fickell will be a lifer at Cincinnati.
Napier looks good, but can he recruit to our level? Would likely see a 4 and 5 win season before he turns the corner.
Napier's recruited for Clemson, Alabama, and Arizona State. None of them as a HC, sure, but he's had a ton of experience recruiting and coaching at or above this level.
And we're probably looking at a 4-5 win season coming down the pipe no matter what. It's coming whether it's a new coach working out the kinks in their first year or Fuente continuing to sink this ship.
Billy Napier's 247 recruiter profile: https://247sports.com/Coach/Billy-Napier-241/
We are looking at the potential for a 4-5 win season this year.
This year too after the performance Saturday
All good points and well thought out. However not sure I agree with
Is it really possible that anyone would be a lifer at Cincinnati? Not IMO. We may not be a strong enough pull but Fickell is not putting down permanent roots in Cincinnati.
Michigan State offered him the farm and then some, and he still said no.
He was offered by Tennessee, and said no.
Auburn, no.
Already declined us last year.
Cincinnati is joining the Big12 and he's going there with them.
There was a recent ESPN long form article that highlights a ton of this from 2 weeks ago.
Big 12 is about to be the worst P5 conference in about two years.
Maybe Auburn is a better job than the rest you mention but who wants to go head to head with Saban each year to keep a job. Expectations are higher at Auburn than they are here.
Michigan State, Tennessee, and VT are all comparable jobs and all good jobs. But I see Fickell looking for a bigger job.
My only comment is I just find the idea that Fickell is a lifer at Cincinnati a bit hard to comprehend. I mean we are talking about Cincinnati. I have never thought of Cincinnati as a lifer job for anyone.
😩 I cannot find the ESPN long form I read the week of the Notre Dame game 😩 or I would post the link. I think it's an ESPN+ article, which may be why I'm struggling to find it
Essentially, he and his wife ain't going anywhere, and they are happy to be settled in Cincinnati.
ESPN+ article, entitled "What Cincinnati Bearcats' Luke Fickell learned from a humbling stint as Ohio State football coach"
I don't get the feeling that he'd come to VT unless we had a damn good offer. But we should still be reaching out.
I have now read the article. It is a nice piece and certainly puts Fickell high on anyone's coaching search list. What I gathered from it is that he (1) knew he had a good team coming back and a team that could make some noise and (2) his son plays for him (which I lazily did not know), and (3) he will have every big time program coming after him especially if Cincinnati makes the playoff.
Someone is going to back the truck up and pay Fickell at a much higher level. IMO (as well as a whole lot of other's opinions) it will not be Tech, although we can dream. And it may be like Harbaugh at Michigan where some school is so desperate they sign him to way too high a contract, but someone is going to make it happen.
Quick edit: And it may very well not happen this year. It will depend upon which big time jobs open. He can be selective.
The points you make are strong and are backed up by more data than my opinion, however I stand by my opinion (nothing more than that) that Cincinnati is not a lifer job. Not for Fickell and probably not for anyone.
I hate engaging in these conversations midseason, but it seems it is time.
I really like Will Healy. He has recruited well at the two levels he has coached at (FCS and G5). Per a source on Twitter (I know that sounds satirical, but stay with me), Healy creates a lot of excitement and thinks big. However, I don't know anything about his game management, and game management is a big critique of mine with Fuente. I will get a chance to watch Charlotte in depth later this season when Marshall plays them and will have a better idea of how he approaches that part of the game.
I guess the big thing for me is, I want a head man who can market the program and manage a game. If he can delegate everything else accordingly and keep our identity as a defensive school, I would give it a chance.
Healy not having any P5 experience is concerning, but would be nice to bring in an upbeat guy. Coordinator hires would be incredibly important in that scenario
Fire Fu and Corn tonight and give the keys to Jham to finish the season out. See how that goes with him at the helm and I don't know, French running the offense.
Then you've got an idea of what potential you have with him as HC if he brings in a legit OC.
If not, Clawson on line one please.
My concern is who is calling the plays for the rest of the season if Fu and Corn are both gone. While many are under the assumption that literally anyone else could call better plays, i'm not entirely sure who else on staff could do it, or who we would actually want to see calling the offense.
That said, if i'm Whitt, I order Fu to can Corn by noon today. If Fu refuses, Whitt steps in and fires Fu. Typically if you refuse your bosses orders if grounds for termination for cause, not sure how Fu's contract is written, but it could save us the buyout.
Not sure who calls plays and I hate that it's come to this but to get CornFu out, I'd be ok with whoever they got.
Wonder if Vice and Shibest quits if Fuente gets fired or they wait for next coach, or Fuente to land somewhere.
I guess it depends on how their contracts are structured. Are they guaranteed their salary for this year already?
Very unlikely. I'm sure payment is conditioned on services rendered and I doubt there is compensation for being fired as a position coach.
You would think the rest of the coaching staff stays to collect their paychecks.
I'll do it remotely for less than $100K for the rest of the year. It'll help us save just that much more for a new OC.
(That should be read as: "get at least Cornelson off campus right fucking now")
J Ham and bring Wiggins back as OC. Wiles or Torrian as DC.
Pass on Wiggins. Let's get non-Fuente coaching tree. Also someone who's been successful as OC seems a decent requirement to have.
Get me Lane Kiffin.
I wish. No way he'd be interested and no way we could afford him.
You want a guy who will stay no longer than 3 years while trying to get the absolute biggest contract for himself as possible, not do all that great in year 1, better in year 2, which is when he starts looking for a new gig? No thanks.
Hi, Brent Williams is holding on line 1
Buzz is a far more accomplished basketball coach than Lane is a football coach. Iirc, Lane has had one 10 win season in 8 years of as a head coach.
He's had (3) 10-win seasons. One with USC and 2 with Florida Atlantic.
And Lane has a winning percentage of 64% versus Brent's 61%.
No, thanks.
#BringLanetoLane
this hurts my brain
People laughed at him, but for years Lavar Ball would tell people his son Lonzo was gonna be drafted by his hometown Lakers. It happened. When asked afterward, Lavar said he always knew it would happen because "he spoke it into existence".
So I'm gonna channel the great Lavar Ball and keep speaking it into existence; the next head coach of VT Football is Mike Tomlin
And then he was traded away before his third season.
If I'm looking for a motivational speaker to fire me up about speaking something into existence, Lavar Ball is pretty far down on that list. But, take your inspiration where you get it!
If we get Mike Tomlin I will personally make a 6 figure donation the day it happens
Idk about 6 figures but I would also be eager to give substantially more than I have
I'll match that:
$1
$1
$1
$1
$1
$1
.
That is six figures , right?
One figure, six times?
Will do the same if we count the numbers after the decimal place.
Mike Tomlin will never come here for a billion reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam, he is only very very slightly more likely to ever wear maroon and orange than Nick Saban or Bill Belichick. He's probably more likely to coach William and Mary than VT and I would give that about a one in ten trillion chance of ever happening. But on top of that I think it would be hilarious to see how people here react to his actual in-game coaching. He is a great coach for a number of reasons and he for sure would come in and be an ace recruiter from the get-go, but his actual in-game coaching/decision making and lack of situational awareness might be on par with Fuente in how bad it is.
Mike Tomlin as the coach of VT would bring in awesome recruiting classes like we've never seen here and would have his teams ready to play huge games; he would also still lose games the exact same way we lost the Liberty and ND games with coaching blunders and would still be in dogfights with FCS noon games that we have no business not winning by 30+. Still would be a tremendous improvement and one of the best options we could ever hope for because recruiting is the name of the game these days but I don't think he'd be the perfect Saban-level coach a lot of people picture him as when his name pops up in these dream scenarios.
Im going to drop a name no is talking about: Brent Pry, current PSU DC.
I haven't heard his name floated, so I have no idea if he's be interested, but he's one of the best DCs in the country and has been mentored by one of the best recruiters in the country. He brings instant credibility to the state of VA, and hiring him is a huge blow to one of our key recruiting rivals.
Not opposed.
I'm down for this.
Don't know I've ever even heard his name before. But you make a very good case. And if it hurts Penn State Football - even if it ends up not helping us - I'd be all for it.
This reminds me of the first time I saw someone drop Fuente's name as a potential hire back in 2015.
Remember when we had one of the best DC's in the country and we decided we wanted a offensive whiz for an HC? Good times.
Foster could've failed too, we'll never know. At the time, no one was disappointed with the decision.
True... I just hate that he didn't get his shot and the guy who did turned us into garbage.
I think Foster wouldn't have lasted more than a few years at HC due to health issues. I think he retired at the right time.
Plus, if Foster had been hired as HC, he would have had a better shot at the Coaching Hall of Fame. That fraternity seems to have an unwritten (?) rule that only head coaches get in.
Written rule.
10 years as HC, at least 100 games coached, and at least .600 winning percentage
So unlikely he would have gotten in, since I doubt he would have stayed 10 years due to age/health.
Thanks for the clarification.
It stinks for him. He deserves some kind of Hall of Fame acknowledgement.
Mike Young like hire would make me happy.
Holy shit it's my TKP birthday. 7 years to this day y'all. I really only lurk but I love you guys.
congrats!
Leg for your name being VERY close to mine, or rather my name being very close to yours since you've been here longer
I'll take the inanimate carbon rod at this point.
Otherwise I'm fine with JHam, or any other VT alum. Not interested in guys who don't love it like we do, they'll just get poached and we begin the cycle again and again and again.
I'll throw a name out there, Jeff Grimes. The man knows offense as he had an explosive offense at BYU, and has the Baylor offense rolling right now. Has ties to VT albeit a short year with us. Has coached at LSU, Auburn, BYU, Baylor, he is from Texas so we can keep the tx2vt going /s.
Normally I would say search firms are a waste of money but I really hope Tech goes that route when finding the next coach. Whit has a bad track record with hiring football coaches and his quotes from last years press conference on deciding to keep the current regime are concerning to say the least. What if his strategy is to contact opposing coaches in the ACC for advice like he did when choosing to retain Fuente? Either we get this decision right or toil in mediocrity for a long time.
I'm not sure why you're catching all these downvotes. I'm a big fan of Whit, yet I still agree with everything you said.
How is one hire a "bad track record"? Very few thought Fuente was a bad hire at the time. Sure, it hasn't worked out but I would argue still that it wasn't really a bad hire. There weren't red flags about his character or anything- those would make a bad hire. The mistakes Whit has made are a too generous contract extension after one good season and whatever debacle that was with the press conference last year. But one hire doesn't make a track record.
Agreed. I see too many people saying Whit whiffed when hiring Fuente. At the time everyone (including TKP) thought he'd managed to pull a rabbit out of the hat because there were a lot of other teams searching and Fuente was the top of the list for a lot of big schools and we got him. It didn't work out but that seems to be the case lately with a lot of other schools.
My reasoning for getting assistance with this decision is because Whit's last two football hires are Justin Fuente and Tommy Tuberville.
I was wondering if you were referring to a pre-Tech hire - and apparently you were.
Edit: But was Tuberville really that bad? His last season was really bad, but his first two seasons were both 9-4. But Tuberville resigned after the bad season and hasn't coached since. It could just be that last year he realized it was time for him to move on and do other stuff (heart not in coaching any more). So not sure overall it was a bad hire.
Tuberville's last two seasons at Cincy he was 11-14. That's a sharp decline from his first two 9-4 seasons. Initially not a bad hire but it went south pretty fast. Sounds familiar...
Pretty sure he's either a Governor or Senator now in Alabama, so definitely making more money then he would have coaching.
America has the best politicians that money can buy
Yep - Senator in Alabama.
Uhh, college football coaches make more money than US Senators ($174,000/ year) by an order of magnitude, sometimes two orders or magnitude.
The implication is that politicians are corrupt
And coming from NJ, GGC and I should know!
Happy electin' day!
My new election strategy is vote for whichever party sends me fewer unsolicited texts calling me Jason (which is not my name) thanking me for signing up with them (which I have not) asking for my vote in Virginia for [INSERT CANDIDATE] (I live in NJ and if I tried to vote in VA, I could go to jail) ...
Exactly, if you think all they're making is their salary check out Mark Warners net worth or net assets. 200 mill+
He started out rich.
As did most Senators. But even the ones who didn't aren't getting any poorer.
America has the best politicians money can buy
You should try living in Latin America. At least in the USA, the politicians have reason to be afraid of the FBI, state police and other investigate agencies. South of the border, pretty much everyone is bought off. It is known. This is the way.
ehhh...IDK about that. I don't think we can really continue this topic here though
let's say the former FBI guy who lives in Peru might have an informed opinion and leave it at that. thanks everyone!
since you want to discuss latin american politics
maybe don't cast aspersions on other countries?
"let's leave it at that" means I definitely don't want to discuss any politics
My Hokie brother, I love my Latin neighbors and count them as among my best friends. I love the Spanish language and treasure learning new words every week. I love the food, especially the Peruvian cuisine which is deservedly popular across the globe. But I promise you, everyone I have ever spoken with about politics in multiple countries of Latin America believes that most/all politicians are corrupt, and that sadly includes police officers too. I know that there are exceptions, but public opinion is unanimous in the belief that government officials of all stripes are easily corrupted. It is regrettable, but reminds me of what a wonderful country I come from and look forward to retiring in some day. America ain't perfect, but at least we can call 911 and get help quickly from highly trained and professional public servants. Can't say that down here.
I agree with the overall sentiment here, but to be technical, he's only made one hire and two extensions (which is his entire track record). Based on Fuente's performance, his track record of one hire and two extensions is bad. And I think the two Fuente extensions need to be considered apart of his hiring record too (it's technically a rehire that extended the length of the original hire). Thus, it's a bad track record.
The question is whether he can correct his current track record and trajectory. The hiring of this offseason will be huge for Babcock and VT.
Fuente has only had 1 extension. It was a mistake after the first year, and EVERYBODY knows it now. I think it is a lesson well learned by Whit.
Whit has made a lot more than 1 hire when you consider basketball and all of the other sports that VT participates in.
The contract extension in April of 2017 extended his contract into 2023. The contract extension in Jan 2018 extended him to 2024. The second extension is the one that put in the very large buyout.
April 2017
January 2018
No argument that Babcock has made great hires others in other sports, but the track record within football is what is relevant here. If we want to analyze of his overall performance as an AD, that's a different discussion, but I do think overall he's passing, even with the failure within the football department.
Todd Grantham an option?
he should be fired, so he'll likely be looking
Considering that UF fans would pack his bags with gusto, I will pass.
Charles Huff.
He's not doing that great at Marshall. I know he has an incredible coaching pedigree between Saban, Franklin, and others, but he's 3-3 at one of the easiest jobs in the CUSA.
Keep in mind salary, Fuente is the 39th paid publicly available coach. That's means realistically he is at least 41-44. There is a limit on what Whit feels he can afford.
For those interested - here's the source: https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach
So a couple observations based on what we've seen so far with Whit:
-The next head football coach will probably be someone who has experience as a head football coach. That seems to be Whit's MO in the majority of the hires he's made while here at VT. While it's not a guarantee , this is why I think we're more likely to see someone like Billy Napier instead of Tony Elliot in orange and maroon.
-Whit seems to have learned from his mistakes with Fuente. Collegiate coaching is a very strange occupation. If you do well at a smaller school you can get hired at a major conference and bring all of your work bros with you (for better or for worse), which is what happened with Fuente. Yes, JF did retain Bud, but he also brought Galen Scott and his other work bros with him regardless if they were ready for big dog football or not (ahem, Corny). This is not how Whit seems to operate anymore. When Mike Young was hired, he brought one coach with him from Wofford but the rest of the coaches were guys who were proven assistants at a high level who weren't necessarily part of The Mike Young Coaching Tree, and that's worked out very very well. I think that, whoever our next football coach is, will not have carte blanche to bring along whatever work bro they want. This may turn away some coaches who will want to bring along their entire current staff with them, but I think that's okay.
I am not sure that whit should be explicitly dictating who the coach can/cannot hire. I think in hindsight whit would realize the bud/fuente arranged marriage was an awkward fit from the start and would have to let someone start fresh with who they can get
galen scott (on napier's staff btw), holmon wiggins, and to an extent vance vice seem to have been ready for p5 level from an on-field and recruiting perspective. it was some of the replacements, or lack thereof, that have proven to be an issue in my view
I want someone who has at least worked at the P5 level and seen what it takes to run a program successfully. VT is a unique place to recruit to, for both good and bad so someone with experience working in that enviornment or who knows how to build the recruiting machine would be ideal. some names i would like to see when the time comes (accepting that fickell and the like are longshots):
-charles huff, marhall hc
-billy napier, Louisiana hc
-dan lanning, uga dc
-brad white, kentucky dc
-brent pry, psu dc
-tony alford, osu assistant head coach
-will healy, charlotte hc (doesn't really fit the list as much but has worked in the region extensively)
Tony Alford is very interesting. Elite recruiter.
If it was me I'd force Fickell to turn you down, then go Herman. Like Freeman a lot & would be interesting to see what happens to Mullen.
Love this. You wanna be our AD?
You had me with Fickell, but lost me with Herman.
Why not Herman? The dude can recruit and did a great job at Houston and a fair job at Texas; which is a notably difficult place to win. Plus, he was a great OC at anOSU.
I'd counter - why Herman? Great job at Houston? He was there 2 years, yes, 13-1 was awesome his first year, followed that up with 9-3. Then he went to Texas and amassed this record: 7-6, 10-4, 8-5, 7-3. So in both places looked to be trending down after a good/great season. How is that any different from Fuente? Fuente went 10-4, 9-4, 6-7, 8-5, 5-6. But as for Herman, looking at that performance over time at Texas, what makes you feel like he was going to pull another 10 win season out of his hat? It looked to me like I would have predicted 6 or 7 wins the following year if he hadn't been fired. And 6 or 7, or even 7 or 8 wins are not the win totals we're looking for here. If you say Herman had a 10-4 year at Texas, well Fuente had one at Tech too, but that certainly didn't translate to other 10 win seasons. So, why Herman? As for being a good OC at Ohio State, yes, it looked like he was a very good OC there and at Iowa State. I'd probably think it was a great idea to bring him in as an OC, just not as a head coach, given his performance at Texas.
Herman seems to cross off a lot of marks for me. He has seen how a program like Ohio State is ran, ran his own program at Houston, and then had to deal with one of the hardest jobs in the country at Texas. Recruiting wise he landed a 5* at Houston and was killing it recruiting at Texas (no way he'd recruit at that level here, but certainly would increase it). He doesn't have to deal with insane boosters at VT and the Coastal is just begging to be tamed. I would be very afraid of going with someone with no experience at this point, because it feels like we could be in serious trouble if we whiff on this hire. I would like it if he was a bit more personable from a fan standpoint, but if he can win I'll take it.
Recruiting well is nice and all, but if you can't do anything with it, what does that get you? And how much of that is a function of the school being a draw by itself vs his abilities? In 2017, FSU had the number 6 class (with four 5-stars and eight 4-stars) in the country and what have they done with that? So, the big question is how Herman will actually be able to recruit if he comes to Tech, and how will he perform with those recruits? Herman had the number 3 recruiting classes in both 2018 and 2019. He had top 10 classes almost every year and number 1 class in the Big 12 every year. How was he NOT winning 11 games per year? Do you think he performed where he should have given those recruiting classes? If you're okay with 7 or 8 wins given those classes, I don't know what to say to you. I can't look at that and think anything other than that he REALLY underperformed.
And again, just because he's seen the inside of Ohio State, what does that get you if he isn't winning with phenomenal recruiting classes? And him failing to perform has zero to do with whether he had insane boosters to deal with.
Also, Texas had the number 10 recruiting class in 2015 and number 7 class in 2016 in case there was a question of talent level when he got there.
I'll just point out that yes, he probably should have won more considering their resources. But most of his losses were competitive, one-score losses to ranked teams, and he did still win a few big games against Georgia, Oklahoma, and a number of mid-ranked Big 12 teams so it wasn't quite like he lost every big game or had his teams completely unprepared. Nothing about his time at Texas scares me off from thinking he would have VT as the premier team in the Coastal again in short order.
I'm not a huge fan of a grown man mocking a college player, but I could overlook childish behavior like I did with Buzz.
I would be more worried about dome of the rumors that were being thrown around when he first arrived at Texas and his treatment of players. I don't know how true it was, and some players probably got in the doghouse because they didn't like change do I hope it wasn't wanting bad, but I'd be investigating that if u was an AD going to hire him.
Without going into incredible detail, I just went and looked at his record for all 4 years he was at Texas. In my earlier post, I summarized just how good the Texas recruiting classes were. I also went and looked at the recruiting rankings of other schools in the Big 12 over the same period, and I looked at the actual results of the games. Yes, some of his losses were close games to ranked teams, but most of the losses were to unranked teams, some of the losses were to teams with much lower recruiting rankings, and some of his wins against not great teams were also close. I urge you to go look at all that stuff for yourself and tell me again that he didn't really underperform. He had almost exclusively top 10 recruiting classes (except 1 year at like 17, which I think was the transition from the previous coach to him), and lost games to teams that had recruiting classes in the 50s. If you're okay with 4 or 5 losses per year, as long as they're close, competitive games and 1 or 2 of those losses were to ranked teams (and like I said before, trending down from 10 wins to 8), I guess he's your guy. From what most people on here have said, they want a coach that will do more with less (rather than a guy who appears to do less with more).
Being set on a guy who does "more with less" is a big reason we got Fuente in the first place. Fair or unfair to guys in similar situations as he was at Memphis, I'm just not interested in that same type of hire again. "He won with crappy recruits so he'll just come to VT and magically recruit better with our resources" is a sentiment that means nothing to me this go-around because that's the story we were all sold with Fuente and as we've all seen now it's not that simple.
The reality is we're not gonna get a guy who both recruits extremely well at a high level and also wins extremely well at a high level because guys who do both at the same time simply aren't available. We focused on a guy who was winning with no resources last time and it's killed us. If Herman was perfect he wouldn't be an option for us, but at the very least he's proven that he knows the recruiting game at this level and generally has his teams playing well, even if not necessarily putting together 12 win seasons consistently. All factors considered I'm willing to take a chance that he can use those skills in a much easier conference and division to at least get us back to regularly competing for the Coastal.
I'm not saying that he did an amazing job at Texas. I recognize that he should have been winning more. What I want him for is to come in and build a system to recruit better players out of Virginia and the Mid-Atlantic. Let him build up talent levels and go and hire the best coordinators we can get. Texas is a hard job with all the off the field factors going on so I'm willing to give him some leeway with that, but fortunately most of that doesn't exist at VT. I'm not saying its not a risk, but outside of a few unlikely candidates most everyone is a risk.
and of course there is the Longhorn Network Curse to consider.
Sorry for the long read - kudos if you read it all.
So maybe addressing this from a risk perspective is probably better and is a more accurate reflection of my concerns with him. Yes Herman had phenomenal recruiting classes at Texas, but they were very good before he got there as well, so the first question/risk is how much of that recruiting is his abilities vs how much is it just being easy to sell a program like Texas to recruits?
The second is his traditional recruiting grounds are far enough away that his existing recruiting relationships may not help. So even if he is able to recruit well, say top 15-20 recruiting classes, will it take several years for him to build the relationships in the area before he can get there? Maybe if he kept JHam around, it might mitigate that with the relationships the defensive coaches have already? Then there's the performance issues I mentioned - how well will he perform with the caliber of recruits he brings in (so this is a risk on top of the other risk related to how well he'll actually be able to recruit at Tech given new recruiting grounds, possibly even different approach to recruiting kids in our area vs. the kids in Texas and surrounding states (people had mentioned something about that in relationship to our TX2VA effort)). From looking at his coaching history, it actually looks like he was an incredible OC - he was turning in top offenses at several schools he was at, so if we were talking him as OC, I'd be very excited. It just doesn't look to me that whoever was his offensive coordinators once he became HC were delivering the same level of offense that Herman himself was capable of.
So then I look at someone like Clawson, who has his own risks. People have pointed out he's not a great recruiter. His recruiting classes are historically in the 50s to 60s (more often in the 60s), but he's been winning way above where those classes would suggest he should be. He's come in 3rd in the Atlantic twice, so Clemson and another school, whether it was FSU, State, Louisville, or whoever - that's pretty impressive for having historically bottom 2 recruiting classes in the ACC every year. So he really seems to get a lot more out of the recruits he does get. And he's not horrible in recruiting. He's gotten top 10 recruits in both NC and SC, competing with schools like Clemson and USCe in SC and UNC and State, and even Duke (as another private Christian school). So Clawson's risks seem like whether he can recruit up from where his classes are now (and it's gotta be much harder to recruit for a small Christian school than Tech, so seems like he should), and if so, how much better. Then, the other risk is whether he can coach up the kids to be competitive in the coastal, which, given he's come in 3rd in the Atlantic, seems likely as well. And this year he's 6-0, with a win over ODU 42-10, over FSU 35-14, UVA 37-17, and Louisville 37-34. All with those bad recruiting classes. And Clawson has continually built winning programs at each place he's been HC, first at Fordham, then Richmond, then Bowling Green, and even now he looks like he's built something at Wake, while not as successful as previous schools, is in a P5 conference at what has to be one of the hardest schools to be successful at.
So, when comparing risks between Herman and Clawson - there just seems more unknown about Herman and more risk, at least to me. And, like I said, it would even be different if we were talking Herman as OC which I think would be a home run, just not sure he's going to have the same success as a HC.
I appreciate the thought out responses. I definitely can see the appeal of a Clawson type hire. It scares me because if it doesn't work then your foundation sinks further down. Clawson is what I thought Fuente would be here. Instead we've gotten relatively low recruiting classes recently without the development. Its very possible I'm just overreacting and going the exact opposite of Fuente by trying to go all in on recruiting.
I totally and 100% get your concern. I think Fuente had more risks when we hired him than Clawson has. As far as I can tell, Fuente didn't have the track record of developing kids above what the recruiting classes would have suggested. People point to Andy Dalton and Paxton Lynch specifically, and Dalton may have been more of the case like Fuente having more direct input to him since I believe was the QB coach or OC (similar to Herman being good as an OC). Regardless, Fuente only built up one program, Memphis. And no P5 HC experience. So while he certainly looked the part, I would say his risks were much higher. No proven recruiting, no proven ability to develop kids, concern relating to being successful in a P5 conference and competing with other P5 coaches for that caliber of recruits. Clawson built lots of programs to success, and while not a 10 win program, is perfuming well in a P5 conference with comparably weak recruits compared to the rest of the conference. When I think about it from a risk perspective like this, I probably would have been much more wary of Fuente's potential back when we hired him. I've learned a lot since then from TKP and reading about other hires and evaluating candidates and what we've learned from Fuente. I think we've probably learned a lot since we had CFB for so long and didn't have to go through the hiring process before. And Whit I think has learned as well, as much as some people have called out Whit as being incompetent. I don't think it's that. I think he's relied on wisdom of others and been learning as he goes. I think he'll make a much better choice this time.
Just to be clarify a point, much like Harvard University and many others, both Duke and Wake Forest trace their history back to Christian foundations. And just like Harvard, both Duke and Wake are now very secular universities that have zero oversight or control by the Christian denominations that founded the original institutions. Duke and Wake Forest are decidedly not Christian institutions. While both still retain schools of divinity within the university much like Harvard and Princeton, neither school is beholden to any outside Christian organization for any support or reporting. They are secular institutions with Christian origins.
The school that was bought and reorganized into Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical college was a Methodist school. Preston and Olin institute.
His teams at Texas repeatedly under achieved. His teams played undisciplined football, and Herman has maturity issues himself (flicking off fans, denying responsibility at press conferences, etc). He recruited better than all but one (if not every) team in his conference, but still managed to lose AT LEAST 3 B12 games every season Herman was there.
If you can't win with bluechip talent, you won't be able to win with the top 25 talent at VT. Period.
plus he lost to Maryland twice. how good is he really
Best case scenario for me as unlikely as it seems is Fuente and corny get the boot Monday, JHam takes over as interim. If he does well, great, keep him. If not, at least weve given him a bit of HC coach experience so he can land somewhere else promising if the new coach doesn't keep him
Whit is not making the move until the end of the season because that's just how he is. Even DC said the money was being floated after the Liberty game last year. Whit still didn't pull the trigger.
Because the money "isn't there", Whit has an athletic department where every staff member (including him and Fuente) took pay cuts last year and some office and support staff for admin was laid off. Whit being able to save a few million by waiting till December makes sense.
Whit won't wait till December and if he does then VT will get an unknown type of hire. Whit won't last if his 2nd HC hire fails. He has to get this one right and saving 2M isn't going to help him do that.
Exactly this JUGS. This is just like when Beamer retired we got Fuente before season ended and search happened way before . The main reason you fire a coach in season is to get a head start on a coaching search . If you wait till end of season more than likely you won't give yourself a chance on the top candidates on your list .
He's already searching, I guarantee that.
I agree with what Andy Bitter had in his article on the Athletic earlier today about the timing of a firing with respect to the $2m. Whit's not going to wait until December 15th, but it's much more likely to mean a post UVA game firing than a mid-year firing, certainly this week. For as nice as it would be to get a head start on a coaching search, you're probably not going to be able to actually hire a coach until the end of the season regardless. If you're saying get rid of Fuente now, and let JHam have a chance to be the interim coach to see how it goes, then maybe, but I think that's still a lot easier said than done depending on who on the staff stays on for the rest of the year, etc.
I'd rather have a hamstrung coaching staff for the rest of the season, knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel, than continuing to run head first into the painted-on, fake black tunnel like Wiley Coyote that would be continuing with the current full compliment of staff.
Thank you for giving me the excuse to post!
I mean, it would definitely be a load off to not have to worry about if he's coming back. I'm just saying, per Andy, the mechanics of hiring a new coach wouldn't really change with a mid-season firing, unless things are truly a nightmare.
Whit could pull an LSU and announce that he won't be back next year. That saves us the 2.5 million as he technically isn't let go until the 16, but also publicly starts the search.
The contract termination terms in this scenario would be negotiated as they were in Coach Os place you don't do what LSU did without agreement from who you're firing.
Maybe that's why we haven't seen our own firing - Whit and Fuente are still negotiating. After Fu's post game comments Saturday I'm sure there's some contractual clauses related to "incompetence" that could trigger with-cause termination, but it's a gray area.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. The Coach O situation did start like a week before the Florida game supposedly though .
I read an article a few weeks ago that made a logical case for promoting J Ham.
I said Healy further up in the thread but would also not mind a Dave Clawson hire whatsoever. For Virginia Tech to ever recruit at an elite level, the athletic department would have to move a lot of money around and potentially hurt other teams. Whit isn't interested in that whatsoever. I think it's perfectly reasonable for Clawson to bring in classes ranked in the 20-25 range every season considering Frank was able to do it in his final four seasons. If he can retain and develop that talent the same way he has at Wake Forest, that is the ticket to success for Virginia Tech. It appears with the way college football is headed with the portal and NIL, parity might not be that far away for everyone not named Alabama and Georgia.
I want sure this was accurate so went and looked at 247; 2011 was 35th ranked class, 2012 was 21st, 2013 was 21, 2014 was 28th, 2015 was 29th and 2016 (partial each staff) was 42nd so yes Beamer stayed around the 25th class which I think should be Tech but man did that staff underporm with those classes.
You want a great interim coach that never will be...Bud Foster... he was shown on the video board during yesterday's game and you could feel the love for that man. What's the worst that could happen? The team tanks and we find a full time coach in the process? Or we find out just how good a head coach foster would be or get JHam ready to take the helm.
I know none of this will happen and everyone will want the flashy hire, but bringing Foster back would be a shot in the arm and maybe just what the program needs.
Maybe I'm just stuck in the past though!
We need like a pinned statement somewhere since people keep bringing this up. Foster had heart issues and left for his health, plus he's several more years older. He's not coming back in anything other than an advisory role.
Love the dude, he was an amazing DC, but people need to let this thought go.
Did you read the first sentence...I don't need any reminders why he will never coach. Thanks.
And yet you still felt the need to say it for some reason.
Probably because it's their opinion....
Isn't saying something, then admitting it won't ever happen (despite how he went on about how we maybe we should give it a shot), by definition just noise? And the reason I pointed out making it like a pinned statement is because other people say it as well.
This was all super helpful, thanks.
I started a thread that was nuked for being noise. I don't get saying that it will never happen, go on about how maybe we should give it a shot, maybe he'd be a great coach and maybe it would be the shot in the arm we'd need, but then say again it won't happen. If I said I think we should get Nick Saban, that would just be noise since there is zero chance of it happening, so why isn't this? I get saying someone wishes we'd been able to see what Bud could have done, but bringing it up like they think it should happen, all while admitting twice it wouldn't happen? Sorry, that may be his opinion, but my opinion is it's noise.
I don't understand the apathy toward Todd Grantham. Seems like a very Sam Pittman esque hire to me. Seems to be working out well for the Hogs
Grantham is about to be fired as UF DC because he only blitzes and doesn't actually run a defense
In LSU's 4 games in August & September, they were ranked 122/130 nationally with 80 rush ypg. They were really bad. sauce
Yesterday, an LSU RB broke the school record with 287 yards on his own against a ranked Florida team.
Bill Bedenbaugh is the more accurate Sam Pittman hire comp. Both longtime OLine coaches who are elite recruiters
As I've said a few times in the past, I was at Georgia while Grantham was their DC.
That experience, plus the wonderful job he's done everywhere since then, makes me not want him in Blacksburg on our payroll. Fellow Hokie or not.
This! I have no idea how he keeps getting hired other than he's done the job before. Football loves those guys, the ones that have done the job so they can hire them and be like, look I hired a DC that has SEC level defense. But every DC in the SEC technically has an SEC level defense.
If money is truly a concern, I would sit down with Bill Clark over at UAB, and see if he's got a vision to push VT from 6-8 wins to 10.
I love the idea of Brent Pry, or another P5 coordinator who has shown serious coaching chops. You jump up to CEO status as Head Coach. Can our next coach showcase that now?
Ed Orgeron being let go at end of season
Na this is just a tactic, they'll hire him as next season interim coach after he goes undefeated the rest of this season as interim coach. Remember Interim Ed is a fantastic coach. /s
I'll leave it to people much more knowledgeable than me to brainstorm names and make the actual hire. I'll take (almost) anyone that Whit thinks will do the best job.
Only thing I'll toss out is that we as fans need to be patient and rally around who is hired (again, within reason). Accept it could easily be 2023 if not 2024 before this team is even bowl eligible again. Might sneak in this year at 6-6, but 3 more wins will be tough. If someone internal like JHam is hired, might be quicker if we could retain the defensive staff and the 2022 class and get a real offensive staff. But if we go outside - and I am perfectly fine with that - you have to let them pick their staff and install their system. With the mass exodus likely from the 2022 class and current players through the portal that could happen with a new coach + installing the new system + the 2 prior horrid recruiting classes, we could be looking at 2-10 next season and 4-8 for 2023 season. And I'm okay with that as long as we have someone with a clear and reasonable vision of what they are trying to do that they can sell and we see progress. Just remind everyone to give them time and pull together even if the next year or two are really rough.
I will remind you that VT was (I think) well-prepared for this when hiring Fuente, and that we were suckered by his first season, doing well with not his recruits. That is a mistake that VT/Whit cannot again do this next time around. But perhaps that isn't possible in today's landscape of collegiate football where it is an arms race with salaries and budgets.
Higher salary, lower buyout. Whit needs to go into this assuming there's a good chance he or his successor will need to fire the coach.
Two guys to think about that haven't been mentioned:
1. Mark Stoops. He's hitting the ceiling at Kentucky and the ceiling is higher at VT
2. Dave Doeren. Has recruited better and won more than Clawson, is paid less then Fuente. Fits the VT culture. I think his ceiling is higher at VT than NC State. Has done a really good Jon to stabilize that program. It went from 3-7 wins to 6-9 wins. It's a lot tougher job than people think. It's tougher than Wake because the expectations are higher. Finds diamonds in the rough and gets them into the NFL (Chubb, Bradbury). Is a run first guy and wants to win the LOS on both sides of the line.
Stoops is not leaving 6 million at Kentucky (which may go up depending on finish this year) for Tech. He has a life contract at Kentucky if he wants.
100% agree, he's not leaving there unless it's for a legit blue blood shot which may or may not ever come, have heard Penn State may have some interest in him if Franklin leaves
As others have mentioned Stoops is prob not realistic. And I am not sure I want him anyways.
Didn't Doeren have one of the best DL units in the country a few years ago. If he could recruit DL here well it would be interesting. I have always held the opinion that outside of QB, the DL unit is the most important unit in college football.
Doeren just hired Charley Wiles after we let him go. Not sure you're going to get the DL you'd like.
As an NC State aluminus and fan (secondary to VT) hell to hell no on Dave. State could very well still implode this year and are only good when the league is bad.
You think Fu's track record against teams above .500 or ranked to end the year is bad? Check out Dave's. Took him till 2016 (year 4) to beat a P5 team finishing over .500. And his only win against a team to finish ranked is I believe Larry Fedora/Mitch Trubisky UNC also in 2016 (a year they finished 6-7).
Yeh, I think the only reason Doeren kept his job last year was because he cleaned house below him. He doesn't inspire confidence in me at all.
You're giving this a negative when while we currently have a coach who won't do that with his OC. Doeren fired Matt Canada because Canada wasn't utilizing the personnel that was available, brought in Eli Drinkwitz. When Eli left, had what I would consider the "Cornelson relationship" OC in two long time assistants. That lasted one year and didn't work, and he let both of those guys go and brought in Tim Beck and Joker Phillips.
He had the same relationship as his DC in Dave Huxtable. Had a good DL and defense for a few years that should have been better honestly but it wasn't working 100%. Went out and got Tony Gibson and made a switch to the 3-3-5.
To me, that shows a vast difference in hiring between Fuente and Doeren. Fuente hires people he knows and sticks with them. Doeren goes out and gets guys that put him in the best position to win regardless of previous relationship.
The wins against top 25 - show me all the coaches in non blue blood programs who have a great record against top 25 opponents. To me, that's a non starter.
I know Fuente should do that. And after looking, Doeren's record is better than I thought, but maybe not as good as they were hoping given his success at Northern Illinois. And speaking of, this is Doeren's 9th year and his peak performance was two 9-4 seasons. I'm not sure why people would want him - I don't think recruiting would get any better and doubt we'd have the wins we're hoping for. We are shooting for 10+ wins per season, not 7-9 wins per season. He's had a pretty long time in the same conference, and I just don't think his ceiling is as high as we'd like. So yes, willingness to make staffing changes is good, but unless he starts turning in 10+ wins consistently, I'd rather go for someone with more potential.
Excluding people I know won't come here, give me Tom Herman, Dan Mullen, Hugh Freeze or Napier I guess as my 4th choice. Anything else and I'll be disappointed and waiting for our next firing/hiring cycle.
Would really, really like Mullen, but don't know if UF lets him go, and I don't think we could afford to pay his buyout plus Fu's plus the salary he would command. Herman I also like as far as recruiting potential.
Hopefully all the Freeze people saw that Liberty got beat by a bad Louis Monroe last night
Inbe4 they hold on to fuente for a few more years.
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I have no idea what this means...
I believe it's saying NO MO FU
I want Chadwell and his mullet. I give not a single fuck about his coaching experience or pedigree, the dude is passionate and has a personality. You can tell his players are having fun, he's having fun, and success is just gravy. That's a culture we could build around and be successful with.
from Appalachia too
A name I haven't seen mentioned and really just an outside the box notion:
Why not Matt Canada???
Dude knows how to run an offense.
and if he doesn't get the job done, we can Blame Canada!
Because he burns bridges really quickly?
He really doesn't, he's had literally one good year ever with peak James Conner and Tyler Boyd and has otherwise failed spectacularly at every stop of his career. Not even sure he's an obvious upgrade on Corn.
Can we factor Sam Rogers in here somewhere? I would really like to see that dude back on the VT sideline someday.
I think him and David Wilson were the last players who created a mythos around them (David chasing rabbits and scaling Cassel and Sam being Hulk Sam in his high school basketball years). We need more of that. And yes Sam was a good inspiration for those around him. I loved the last time he did an AMA with us.
Homerun hire "options": Mike Tomlin, Dan Mullen, Lane Kiffin, Hugh Freeze, Herman
Realistic options: Clawson, Doeren, Fleck, Napier
Swing Low and hope for the best: Chadwell, Healy, JHam
Can someone explain how/why or what the connection is for Mike Tomlin to be a candidate for hire?
I'm not against it if it's a possibility, dude creates great sound bytes.
He's from Hampton/Newport News, played at William and Mary, coached at VMI and the Steelers are allegedly tired of him.
It is infinitely unlikely, yet still possible that he would be interested in coming back to Virginia and coaching.
He would be my absolute #1 coach if I had a billion to throw at anyone, probably even more than Saban. He is an Super Bowl winning African American coach from the 757. He's not even 50 yet. Whit needs to give him a call even it's just to be laughed at and hung up on.
I don't truly see him as an option just someone that people have mentioned that would be the homerun of all homeruns if we pulled it off. Most of my top row candidates are long shots for one reason or another
message board wet dream, nothing more. nice to imagine for all the reasons others have stated
Tomlin to VT is more absurd than Gruden to Tennessee and that was laughable.
Everybody but Napier in your realistic or hope for the best categories makes me sad
I hate the Squeelers, but I would be ecstatic to see Mike Tomlin get the job. Also Fickell has to be on everyone's list.
I left out some names from every category that definitely belong, I don't think Fickell is leaving Cincy though unless it's one of the rumored big 3 for him.
How realistic is Napier though? Like Fickell, I believe he turned down some pretty nice jobs. It looks like he's got something specific in mind if he's gonna move.
He wants LSU
He's not gonna get it, but even with that said I don't think VT goes the Napier route, and for us IMO thankfully. I think LSU is gonna go all in on Lane or Jimbo, if Jimbo leaves wait for the dominos to begin
Weren't the jobs he turned down Ole Miss and Tennessee? Those are jobs with national championship expectations where you're unlikely to even win your division outside of a miracle year. What I recall reading in The Athletic is that Napier is one of the new age coaches that have become very selective of where they go, they want a place where expectations match reality where they can win a lot and have job security. That and Napier's familiarity with the region make me hopeful he'd consider VT. However, although LSU doesn't provide a whole lot of job security, expectations and reality match. As long as you're contending and not hitting on college students in your office/board members wives at gas stations you can probably hold onto that job.
I thought Auburn was in there was well (could be wrong though. Supposedly they got turned down a lot last offseason). Point is, he's turned down jobs at and/or above VT, so to me that says he's content and waiting for something specific. That's why I'm not sure he's exactly "realistic". Realistic to me is a guy that if offered, would likely say yes. Napier, to me, is in the tier above realistic, where it'd be a great hire but he says yes because the cards fell a certain way that led to us
Even Auburn has expectations of being in the hunt for a championship every year. All the SEC schools seem to want a minimum of 11 wins every year, and going to the conference championship every other year, or you're toast. Having one "bad" year of 9 wins and they start wanting your head. Honestly, the money is great, but the competition and expectations in the SEC are so high, if anybody wanted job security, I would think the SEC is not the place to go. I guess going for a couple years and cashing in, and even if you don't do well, the buyouts are huge. So I guess a good way to fund a nice retirement?
If Mike Tomlin didn't want to stay here and play QB, what makes y'all think he wants to coach here?
Billy Napier, Marcus Freeman, Justin Hamilton, Brent Pry
It would be a sad day for Virginia Tech if Freeze was offered a job here.
After careful introspection and conversations with my wife and family, If offered the position as VT Football Head Coach, I would need to respectfully decline.
Go Hokies
You forgot the obligatory "respect my decision" to close out your prepared statement.
I always forget to put that because I do not expect people to "respect my decision".
You know our traditions too well.
Also not a screen shot of the iPhone notes app.
Poor execution, all around.
Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but, hypothetically speaking, if J Ham ends up being interim mid-season, wonder who he would have calling the offense? Certainly not the corn man....
That's definitely an interesting question..
If Fuente got canned mid-season, you have to imagine most of his guys would go with him--Corny, Vice, Lechty. That leaves us with Jafar Williams who has done well...umm....he hasn't distinguished himself whatsoever to-date.
All of those guys are under contract to finish out the season. It would hurt them in their next gig and maybe even financially to quit on their contract to stick with Fu. I don't think it will happen but if it did I think Fu gets fired, Corn would resign and Lechy would be interim OC.
After careful introspection and conversations with my wife and family, If offered the position as VT Football
Head CoachInterim Offensive Coordinator, I would need to respectfully decline.Now you sound like Corn
After careful introspection and conversations with my wife and family, If offered the position as VT Football
Head Coach Interim Offensive CoordinatorCornelson, I would need to respectfully decline.What if we sweetened the pot by naming the position after some moderate donation to the Hokie Fund, including the sponsor's name and graduation year? That way you'd know where you stood in terms of ownership.
I'll need to remain at my current position until a replacement could be found.
Who will make the beer?
I'm not sure about OC, but I'd be willing to offer Sergio Render the interim O-line coach position.
this is a good question and one that I've wondered about myself. If JHam is named interim (very unlikely IMO) he'll probably need to make an immediate change to the offense. I agree with others that if Fuente is canned mid season his buddies probably leave with him in solidarity. The challenge for JHam is that most of the coaches that he'd want to pursue are going to be coaching at other places and won't want to leave their situations mid-season. He might have to take a big risk on somebody who isn't currently employed - either that, or go rob some coach from a high school in Texas or something. Even then, it's not going to go well for our players for the rest of the season. Our offense might go from scoring 21 PPG to scoring 10 PPG if we're forced to make a change to the OC.
I feel really bad for JHam and the entire defensive staff - they're new and haven't truly had the opportunity to prove themselves. Early signs show promise but they still haven't really established themselves as great coaches yet. The writing is on the wall for them too. I'm sure most everyone has the sense that Fuente is a lame duck at this point, including coaches and players. JHam and his defensive staff deserve a lot better than what they've gotten and I hurt for them. IF Fuente is dismissed at the end of this season (and I don't know how big an 'if' that is) you'd have to expect that it will be a clean sweep of the entire staff. Unless JHam is named the interim or the next HC he's likely not going to be in Blacksburg next year either and that really sucks for a multitude of reasons. I think it's unlike, if Fuente is fired, that JHam will be selected as his replacement.
It's a little early in JHam's tenure to keep him on.
It's a shame really, as he's showing some promise.
Hiring him would be bold, which is why I don't think we'll do it. I wouldn't hate it though. I think what VT needs is a young, hungry coach willing to bust his tail to prove himself. Someone who has a vision he can sell. Someone who truly loves VT and gets the love and respect of the players. JHam ticks most of those boxes.
The only box he doesn't tick is the experience one. And, honestly, in this sport, I'm not sure all the experience in the world is that essential. I actually think finding a guy who is really passionate about the job is more valuable than finding a guy who has coached a lot.
Part of the job is hiring stellar people you previously worked (or your buds recommend) with to fill gaps in your coaching staff. This is one place where the experience is fairly important.
This is a fair point and it's another nod to the notion that the football coaching industry is a good ol' boys' club. There is certainly some truth to it but I also believe that it is, in fact, possible for a head coach to go out and interview several candidates with whom he has no real connections and hire a guy on merit rather than just hiring his buddy's buddy because they're buddies.
In other words, yes, in the current reality it is likely true that most coaches go out and hire folks with whom they worked previously or were recommended by people they worked closely with in the past. I reject, however, that this is the only, or even the best, way to hire other coaches. Just because it's been done that way for decades doesn't mean it's the best or the right way to do it. I don't want the next HC to just go out and hire all his friends because that's how things are done. I want the next HC to put forth an honest and earnest effort to interview qualified candidates and hire the most competent coaches. I don't want the next HC to just bring the guys he's worked with for years and years without a good faith effort to find the best candidates. That's how we wound up where we are today.
If Brent Pry hired a top tier offensive coordinator I think that's my favorite option
Yes: Fickell, Tomlin (with the proper investment), Hafley, Clawson, Venebles
Maybe: Chadwell
Very interesting: Joe Brady (Panthers OC), Dan Lanning (Georgia DC) Brian Johnson (Eagles QB coach)
I'm listening: Dykes, Pry, Bill Clark
Hell no: Freeze, Herman
Think the LSU model. Announce mid-season, like maybe now, that CJF will not return next year. Let him finish the season. Use the rest of the year for evaluating next coaching options, hold onto recruits, and retaining CJF so the buyout drops end of year.
Agreed - I think LSU's strategy is brilliant here - they'll get their pick before other jobs (*cough* VT *cough*) come open. I'm jealous
I think they've already decided they want Aranda; which may encourage Napier to be much more amenable to a move.
VTs situation is more complicated. With LSU, you have a mutual agreement that Coach O will step down at the end of the year. The only way Fu is leaving is if we fire him - he's not giving up that buyout. If we announce now that he won't return at the end of the year, if his agent has any sense, he will argue he was effectively terminated in October and is due the full $10M.
Now granted, I don't think we should let $2.5M dictate the timeline of our coaching search. But we can't just say we're going to fire him at seasons end and get away with the reduced buyout unless it's mutual. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I bet if VT moves on that Fu wants his parachute and will disappear to Oklahoma/Texas for a while and contemplate his next move. If a change is happening I bet Whit is already negotiating in principle behind the scenes.
The hope is they pull something similar to LSU and maybe negotiate that buyout down. Agree to a mutual parting of ways (for $5 mil) is better than fired publicly. That also allows Fuente to try and shop himself as well.
This would be the best situation for all parties, but I honestly just don't think Fu will go for that. Part of me could see him taking this buyout and never getting back into big time coaching.
Except LSU did not exactly negotiate it down.
Well, we all know LSU is irrational. I expect Whit to try and negotiate down the buyout. But even if we agree to pay him the full 7.5 million, we can get the search started publicly.
You think 17 mill was irrational, haha wait till they pony up 90 mill for Jimbos and then pay him 10 mill a year on top of that.
LSU wont have to pay any of that $90 million if Jimbo walks on his own. That $90 million is only if A&M fires him.
The AD who orchestrated the deal is now AD at LSU. Jimbos recent extension also contains that language. His agent should be credited for a well written contract.
https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/jimbo-fisher-speculation-lsu-job
Gotcha I was totally off on that
Agreed. This is where Whit needs to be earning that big salary of his. Manage Fu out the door as quickly and cost effectively as possible
SIAP
What VT can expect to pay
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach
lol Jimbo with that $95 million buyout
And at the opposite end, Chadwell making less than a bunch of P5 OC's and DC's.
Fu's buyout made seem insane but it is right in line with the market
Gary P. Making 6 mill a year at TCU should be considered armed robbery, good lord
Eg Orgeron getting fired makes slightly more sense in this context.
After doing some reading on several of the top candidates, I'm 100% on the Napier train. Ideally, we'd follow LSU's lead here and make it known immediately that Fu is done at the end of the year while Whit negotiates behind the scenes. My backup choices are Clawson and Hafley.
I'm limiting it to those three because I think it's highly likely that we can get one of them, and anyone else is either not coming here (Fickell) or carries too much risk (Chadwell, Elliott, Healy, etc). Only if you miss on all three of the primary targets would I consider one of the riskier guys.
This is how I see the ideal scenario also. But it depends on who takes USC and LSU and what they open up behind them. PSU and A&M could throw wrenches into our search.
I'd really like to see a Hokie as our HC, with every assistant coach a Hokie too.
But seriously, I feel we're in a somewhat unique position. We had a former player as our Head Coach for 29 years. Someone with a special personality that everybody (mostly) loved. Was able to communicate well with the fans. A guy you would've loved being friends with. And he was somebody who wanted to be here. He is and always will be a Hokie.
And who did we get to be our b'ball coach? Basically, the same guy, other than the fact he wasn't a former player. But he was from here and wanted to be here. He won't leave us for the next program looking for a new coach. He is and always will be a Hokie.
This is what we need. Someone who bleeds orange and maroon. Someone who loves Virginia Tech and Blacksburg. Someone who wants to be here and will stay because he loves this program and knows how special it is. Someone who can sell the special qualities of southwest Virginia. Who will bring back former players and let them to show these young kids that Virginia Tech is indeed a special place and that they can be a part of it.
That's what we need. Someone who loves Virginia Tech, wants to be in Blacksburg, and most importantly, won't leave us 3 years down the road, and put us through this anguish again. Someone who is and always will be a Hokie!
As much as I love this comment, well.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llGvsgN17CQ
CFB is a HOFer for a reason.
I fully agree. Also, if we hire a random coach and he has sustained success, there is a very good chance that he will get hired away. I would rather bet on our own guys and retain them if they are successful. Justin Hamilton has the right charisma and demeanor to be head coach and you can tell the players like playing for him.
JHam!
Summarizing options that I think VT could/should consider (in no order):
(Intentionally) Not included:
Source for Salary info:
Cant believe I left out Peterson, while I'm with you and don't see it happening, he would be my favorite hire of anyone including Tomlin. If his salary takes $7 mill to get him tell Whit to get in contact let's make it happen.
Peterson is 100% the best case scenario IMO.
When Whit hired Buzz, it was an 'oh shit' moment for the ACC - everyone knew VT wanted to compete in basketball. Landing Peterson would have the same impact. Landing Peterson would have Clemson, FSU, UNC, PSU, going 'Oh shit, VT is for real.' Hiring Peterson automatically makes us a playoff contender in a 5 year window.
But, alas, I don't see Peterson coming out of retirement.
Me neither, especially for a job east of the Mississippi
Peterson theoretically is a grand slam hire. He should absolutely be called.
BUT (giant here)
If you followed up on him after his sudden retirement from UW, you realize he was COMPLETELY turned off by the lifestyle that is modern coaching. He checked out because he realized he was missing life. Everything was just football, football, and football. And he hated that. Didn't like all the attention of a big time job (also why I think its a stretch he takes USC or LSU), didn't like the constant donor requirements and recruiting tactics. He seems perfectly content to leave that life behind and just be a regular human being enjoying life, family and friends. He's not wired like most coaches today at all.
If you're gonna sell him on coming back, you're gonna have to sell him on it being different. (puts pitch hat on here). VT does has some advantages here. It's not a major program so we don't have big time donors that are embedded in the program tracking your every move and giving feedback. We're not a big city or media environment. Even tucked away in the Northwest, Seattle is still right there. You can hide in the Blue Ridge mountains if you want to. And much of the ACC's media center is in Charlotte, pretty small comparatively. And then there's Beamer, proof that it can be achievable. You can sell the family/small town atmosphere that Frank Beamer and VT had in place. That feeling that he's just in a family community and he just happens to coach football.
Hire him a big time recruiting coordinator to take on much of that load and you miiiiiiiiight be able to sell him on that. But I'd say its like a 2% chance, maybe lower. That's how burned out he sounds about coaching college football. It's a shot you take, but still, that's basically the reality of it.
I agree on the relatively slim chances of it, for sure, if I remember correct I think he even was quoted at one point as saying UW was his dream job, so if he walked away he may be done for good, but sometimes these coaches get that itch after a couple years to want to come back and I do think albeit very different from UW, VT also has some good similarities that could give us a shot where others may not have one IF he is open to a return.
sounds all well and good but he's never gonna come here if the fanbase can't spell "chris petersen" correctly /s
Sounds like he would rather be a coordinator. JHam for HC, CP for OC, Jack Tyler for DC.
Chris Petersen took UW to the CFP and Boise ST to a BCS game, spent 13 years as an FBS head coach, has spent his entire career on the west coast/PNW, and he's gonna come out of retirement to be a coordinator in the ACC?
not to harsh the mellow but sounds like another message board wet dream lol
LOL I don't think you were being harsh enough.
Oh yeah, absolutely trying out some FifthFuller optimism there. Maybe CP is bored in retirement and wants to get away from the west coast for awhile, try something new while pulling in a million a year
What ever happened with FifthFuller? I loved his articles.
Fuente never offered him a scholarship. Rumor has it though, if Fuente gets canned, he may be in the portal to come to the good guys.
Fickell is likely not interested in Tech and possibly not interested in anything outside of Cincy, OSU, and maybe PSU.
Venables may not be interested in ever being a HC which is not VT specific.
Campbell may not be interested in VT or moving at all.
re: Fickell - add ND to the list. Maybe Michigan, but as an OSU alum, probably not.
But, yes, these comments were specific to VT, although there are a lot of jobs that are better than VT that these individuals may not be interested in.
Yeah ND too. I always argue against the people who say he'll land at Michigan, he's too much of a Buckeye from everything I've read and heard.
I don't see Fickell going to any program in the Big 10 that's not Ohio State. The programs mid to bottom are a step down, and the ones at the top don't think he'd go to for this reason. (It's a video in case you're at work).
I think he might be willing to go to another program if there were good reasons, but think he'd ultimately most likely want to coach at Ohio State assuming they'll come calling at some point. If his son is playing at Cincy, doubt he'd leave until his son could either transfer as a grad or graduates.
If anyone hires Venables, do they have to hire the guy that keeps him on the sidelines as well?
I'll allow it gif.
Campbell, Moore, Leftwich would be my favorites.
This is why I want Joe Brady. Was a college OC not that long ago. Splash hire would be able to recruit like crazy
Joe Brady has said he hates recruiting. LSU was going to pay him 1.5 million dollars to be an OC and he turned them down because he didn't want to recruit. Will probably stay in the NFL
Building on this...
Still not sure why people keep forgetting Byron Leftwich, he's a star in the making..
Does he have any college coaching experience?
He has no interest in coaching ball. If he did, he'd be making a lot more money as a college coach.
Sauce? Not that I disagree, but it may be worth a phone call to that head coach of his to at least gauge any interest. I do think Leftwich is tracking to be an NFL HC in the near future, but you can't get what you don't ask for...
No source - just pointing out that career NFL guys don't come to college to be a head coach. Byron could make way more money as a college OC/HC than he is now, but isn't.
Apparently Grimes wasn't a fan of BBG
Just one thought I have but we can't be afraid of hiring somebody who big times us in 5 years. If they can dig us out of Fuente's grave and raise the program status in the meantime and then leave us for a blue blood we should be thrilled with that.
I keep seeing people say they want a football Mike Young and that would be great. But MY wouldn't be doing his job as well as he is right now if Buzz didn't set the table for him - he might not have even left Wofford for us. We need football Buzz right now.
Nail on the head, if we have a coach that leaves us for a bigger program that means he's been doing pretty good and the next hire should be successful too. We can't always be looking for the next Beamer those don't exist too often in this day and age, let's get the best guy we can for right now.
100% this. Personally I don't give a damn if the next head coach has any historical association with Virginia Tech. We can't be afraid to hire someone who may leave us in 4 or 5 years to get a better job, or go closer to home, or whatever.
Because let's be honest here, if someone takes over and in a few years has us competing for ACC championships and getting us in the playoffs before heading out then they will have left us in a better spot than *wildly gesturing around at everything*. It also proves that the right person can come in and make Virginia Tech a wining program and Blacksburg would a desirable landing spot.
VT football is in a different spot than where VT basketball was post-2013. Basketball completely bottomed out. 2 ACC wins a year, no talent on the roster, a fanbase that didn't really care, etc. We still appear to be a .500 team at worst (I know we went 5-6 last season, but in a normal year with an FCS opponent, we go 6-6), there is some talent of the roster, just not quite enough talent or depth to supplement it, and the fans still care. I don't think we need to make that Buzz Williams-esque hire. We also don't have to make the Mike Young-esque hire. I would prefer the latter, though.
But we need to avoid the JJ hire. I think Basketball at the end of the Seth Greenberg era is closer to where football is today, maybe even a little ahead, except the fans have more expectations in football.
Hm, that raises an interesting question. What would the football equivalent to our last three basketball coaches look like in the 2021 college football coaching carousel? Here is my take: a JJ-esque hire before actually seeing the results would be like hiring a Tony Elliott, Brent Pry, or Justin Hamilton (especially Justin Hamilton). I think a Buzz-esque hire would be like hiring a PJ Fleck, Billy Napier, or even Will Healy to an extent. A Young-esque hire would likely only look like Dave Clawson except even he doesn't have the level of regional ties Young has. And, just for fun, a Seth Greenberg hire would probably look like Bo Pelini or Dana Holgorsen.
Bingo. I just had the same thought, a week later than you... If I could give you 100 upvotes I would.
Everyone wants the feel good story and to get the hometown guy ("football Mike Young") or someone from the Beamer coaching tree. But you can't force that. If there isn't anyone like that who is ready for this level position, go for the "football Buzz. Williams" instead. Someone who can get the program moving in the right direction. Someone who might leave in 5 years, but after elevating the program and having success. Maybe by then, there will be a "football Mike Young" available and ready for a longer tenure.
After 5+ years of decline, we need someone who can get us back to winning. Get the fans engaged, get the recruits to take notice, and get Virginia Tech football to being back to the level program of 10-15 years ago. That guy probably won't be Blacksburg, and frankly I don't care if he's from Texas or the moon. If he buys into winning at VT while here, that's the guy (although preferably someone who isn't too shady).
Oh god, I hadn't thought of Kellen Moore, and although it's unlikely, what could our offense potentially do with our talent, and him calling plays!!!??? Good God, I'd pony up the loose change for him.
He allegedly turned down the Boise job so doubtful he'd want to coach the team he crushed with his own hand a decade ago
Idk about crushed now
And as a head coach, he most likely isn't calling the plays.
So...we need an HC who can develop personal relationships with players....who can surround himself with top assistant talent and play callers....can recruit...who will be embraced at VT....
Let's think outside the box and instead of hiring a "Mike Young like" coach, just hire Mike muthafucking Young as our new HC to run both sports
s/
If you want to get yourself more worried about this search just look at the names that came up after Beamer announced his retirement. Lots of the comments obviously aged poorly. Lots of names being thrown around now are the same as ones thrown around then.
In interest of people not bringing back 6 year old dead threads I'm not going to link them here.
That entire coaching carousel that year was such a dumpster fire of "can't miss" new head coaches who actually missed a whole lot.
Listening to the TSL podcast. They are discussing potential options and where to go at this point. Seem pretty adamant that at bare minimum, Fu needs to relieve Cornelsen of OC duties immediately and take charge of the offense if he wants to keep his job. The time for that however has long passed. If he were going to do that, he would have done it a long time ago. I'm really starting to think with each week that Fu makes no changes that he wants to be fired, take the parachute, and get away from coaching.
The time to fire Corny was before Kill told him to fire Corny. Instead he hired an outside second opinion, got the same answer, and still didn't fire him.
Exactly. He brought in a man he respects and trusts and he told him the cold hard truth, and he chose to do nothing. I think we have no choice but to clean house, whether that be in-season or end of the year.
Telling y'all Corn has photo evidence of some dirt on Fu...it's the only explanation
s/ish
I actually would not at all be surprised by this at this point.
He was best man at Corns wedding and vice versa....that's why
So he does have receipts.
This is what I've been suspecting for the better part of a year about.
I haven't listened to it yet, but when TSL- who is normally a "fluffy bunnies and rainbows" kind of outlet- is talking about cutting ties with someone, it's past time.
Chris Coleman even actually said that if Fuente and Cornelsen are back next year with no changes he would be leading the charge against the program, lol. They kind of ran through scenarios for how Fu could save his job short-term, but everyone sort of concluded it's probably best to just completely clean house. Recruiting is going to kill him without an extension, and we certainly aren't extending Fu.
Yeah, I started listening this morning on my ride to work. Was surprised to hear how far they had gotten tipped.
The more I think about it, the more I get there too though. Full send. Clean this bitch out.
1. P5 head coaching experience 2. Great recruiter. Thats the list
P5 experience yes. P5 HC experience, not necessarily. The guys with P5 HC experience who are good enough to come to VT are more than likely in a position already that they wouldn't move from.
And over the past decade we've seen multiple guys without P5 HC experience become successful HCs: Dabo, Kirby, Ryan Day, Lincoln Riley, Sam Pittman, Herm Edwards, Mario Cristobal. There are also ones who didn't have success. But that's the same for guys who had HC experience or P5 HC experience.
I think P5 experience and great recruiter/ability to hire a recruiting staff are the only two criteria I have.
You're cherry picking results. I can name a ton of guys who were very successful at the P5 with no prior experience at that level (Urban Meyer, Brian Kelly, Chip Kelley, Chris Peterson, Matt Rhule, etc)
I can also name you a bunch of coaches with a wonderful P5 pedigree who failed miserably (Will Muschamp, Jeremy Pruitt, Kevin Steele, Chad Morris, etc)
Personally, I think To win at VT, you need to (1) recruit at a top 25 level, and (2) be innovative in some phase of the game. A lot (not all) coaches who have spent their career at blue bloods have never had to innovate before. That said, there's no guarantee that an accomplished G5 head coach can recruit well.
This is exactly what I was saying, my point being that P5 HC experience should not be a necessary criteria because you can get success outside of that and that's too limiting.
Good job establishing criteria you know we can't meet so that your next coaching tenure rants are already queued up.
Bob Stoops
Sponge Bob Bowl Flop > CornFu Bowl Staycation
Bob Stoops anagrams to Boob Stops.
Give Eugene Chung a call. I'm dead serious.
Why not?
I mean, think about it, pros:
- he's a Beamer boy
- number of years in the league
- he loves momma, sent his son here. This is key, we can throw out names but we aren't in a good place now and we won't have our pick.
- Andy Reid protégé
- super bowl winner
- wants to coach, but was denied. I'd think that would make him hungry.
Cons, and they're big:
- not much ncaa experience
- has only been a coordinator and assistant coach
- who knows how he would recruit
I still think he's worth consideration at least
No, this another JJ type hire. According to his wiki page he hasn't even been a coordinator at any level, although its not showing what he is currently doing (maybe not in football right now?)
I know we all want Beamer 2.0 (not Shane, necessarily) but having someone bleed Maroon and Orange blood is not as high on the list of priorities as recruiting, player development, talent evaluation, etc.
Frank Beamer is one of my favorite people on earth, and under the circumstances I feel he is a top 25 coach of all time in college. Having said that, I dont- necessarily- want a Beamer 2.0... because college football has changed. There is free agency and remote NCAA allowable camps now. Players are paid for their image. What made Beamer successful was blue collar kids, special teams, and hard nosed defense. Beamer also did great with FUMA and Hargrave as farm systems and with walk ons/legacies. Times have changed. What I DO want is someone to bring an identity in here like Beamer did with special teams- whatever it is. If it's a "60 passes a game identity"- I'll take it. Fuente's teams have no identity. They play scared. They don't get physical short yardage plays, they don't play tough trenches defense, special teams are average.
My reference to Beamer is strictly regarding VT ties and staying for 30 years. Those traits you mentioned made Beamer a very successful head coach in that he found an inefficiency in the game his teams could exploit (Special Teams) and forged an identity based around it.
Coaches without ties to VT are just as likely (maybe more likely?) to bring that VT.
He was a coordinator at KC and assistant coach in Philly during their super bowl run iirc and he held some positions at Mizzou (not sure why that's not listed).
The only reason I consider at all is because we are not really coming to terms with the fact that we're a bit of a dumpster fire atm and a lot of the names bandied about simply won't consider coming to Bburg.
If you don't remember, Coach Chung made some news over the summer
How about Gus Malzan ? P5 hc, been through the grind, has good offense. Ucf is a stepping stone for him
Nope. Please no. Never developed a QB, offense is outdated and predictable (sound familiar), not sure he recruited well because he can recruit or because he was at Auburn (source-Bud Elliott). Gus is a rollercoaster that seems destined to fail at VT.
Going 8 wins consistently at Auburn is not bad, especially when you have to face Alabama and LSU every year. He also played for a national title.
I would say that translates to 10 wins/year in the ACC. He could probably win the recruiting battles as well. His time at UCF so far, it's clear there's a talent drop off. He could fix that quickly at VT. I was bullshitting with Rockypere77 over the weekend. Sounds like this one makes a ton more sense than Napier, and for about the same price.
100% agree I would rather have Malzahn over Napier for sure.
From ESPN Why did Auburn pay Gus Malzahn $21.7 million to walk away? Offensive woes top list. Any of this sound familiar?
And yet he's the most successful coach vs Nick Saban while at Alabama.
The mastermind of some of the best defenses ever struggles with a mediocre QB running a high school offense.
Its tough to judge most of the criticism of the SEC coaches cause it really boils down to they aren't Nick Saban.
I don't recall us playing Nick Saban very often.
It sounds very familiar, but what does "siloed program" mean
Basically he isolated the program from outsiders. It existed in a silo away from everyone else. The article talks about him being paranoid, so nobody from outside the Gus circle and definitely no French's were allowed in.
Nick Rolovich just became available
Pretty sure he's unavailable for us for the same reason he became unavailable for WSU.
No memes please
i got a chuckle out of that :-)
Yea every AD wants to hire a coach who refuses direct orders from the president and board and AD. They will be lining up to hire this guy.
I've seen lots of people advocating for JHam and other people with VT ties, and I get it. I used to think the same thing.
But now I've had a different view: we need to hire someone from the outside because it's hard to say your baby is ugly. I assume 90% of the people that post here are loyal VT fans, love the school, Blacksburg, etc.
We need someone that can come in an see us EXACTLY for what we are, warts and all, and get to work maximizing our strengths and minimizing our weaknesses.
And I agree with the posters above that said we should be happy if the next coach comes in and gets stolen 5 years later, because that means we're in a much better spot.
Fuente was an outsider...
Yes but he kept (was forced?) Bud, has hired JHam, etc.
I just want the best guy for the job, Hokie or not.
I mean, sure, but Fuente and Corn are the outsiders. Over the 6 years here, offense has been the much, much bigger problem than the defenses which have been coached by Hokies. I'm not advocating for Hokies necessarily, but pointing out that hiring Hokies hasn't been the issue
Think I'm in the Napier/Clawson/Elliot camp(s) at this point. While I'd like to give Hamilton a shot, there's just too many variables there. When it comes to football there are only 2 things I care about: Ws & pts (& in that order). Everything else is second or third for me. Just get somebody that can at least make us competitive for the ACC champ again, pls.
Tony Elliot cant coach he cant call plays this year look at how bad Clemsons offense has been without T law he has one of the most talented offenses in the country yet he continuously cant score he sucks if he was any good someone would have hired him away if were going to look at any Clemson coach I want Brent Vennables.
I hear ya. I would want that too. I'm just trying to be realistic (I think). I feel like for a 3rd choice it's either between Elliot or Freeze (which I know is not the route most folks desire).
He's not going to be hired to coach offense. He'd be here to recruit, build a team/culture, and basically bring a Clemson-like blueprint to Bburg. According to insiders, he's been selective in where he wants to go to be a HC, so I'm not really taking either one of those things as reasons to totally eliminate him as a candidate.
In regards to JHam, this is one of the biggest reasons why I want Fuente gone ASAMFP. I'm not saying JHam is the guy, but I would love for him to get the rest of the season as an audition while Whit searches for the best possible fit.
And who knows? Come December, maybe that fit is JHam.
Edit: Clarified not the sole reason. Obviously.
Or JHAM auditions, we get blown out by UVA and the new coach brings in his own DC and JHAM is no longer here. JHAM is in no way a Bud Foster situation- he hasn't earned that, WADR. If a 3rd year DC is forced on the new coach, and he accepts that- we didn't hire a big time coach. Nothing against JHAM. I love him as a coach. But let's be real here. If Whit hires a level coach that we want him to hire, that guy is bringing in his own staff- as it should be.
I don't think the Hamilton situation is similar to bud at all but I hear your point. We shouldn't be hiring with the asterisk that you keep him unless the incoming coach really likes what he sees
the way I see it, the next HC has to build out his staff, both offensive and defensive. JHam will be available. IF the next HC wants to hire JHam then I'm fine with that. IF the next HC hires someone else, then I'm going to have to trust that the HC is building out a team that aligns with his vision and philosophy and I'd be fine with that too. I'd love to keep JHam in some capacity but I also believe it is more important that the next coach has free reign and isn't required to keep anyone currently on staff.
Agreed. and at this point, I really hope Whit doesn't do a "one-sided" search again. Nick Saban, Frank Beamer, Mack Brown, Kirby Smart to name a few are "defensive" minded head coaches. Don't limit the search
If only we weren't so pressed to keep Bud last time around we could have landed Smart before the GA job opened, and who knows where we would be if that happened, but I have to feel it would have been a lot better than where we are now
First off, if we don't get blown out by UVA as is it will be because UVA pulled a Wahoo.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing here. Let's look at the different scenarios.
A. We can Fu now, JHam is the interim HC as Whit begins his search. JHam does well. Whit gives him a look for permanent HC.
B. We can Fu now, JHam is the interim HC as Whit begins his search. JHam doesn't do well. Whit hires from the outside. Most likely JHam is gone as new HC picks his staff.
C. We keep Fu for the rest of the season and can him at the end. Whit hires JHam, who's completely unproven at HC.
D. We keep Fu for the rest of the season and can him at the end. Whit hires from the outside. Most likely JHam is gone as the new HC picks his staff.
.
.
.
.
.
ZZZZ. We keep Fu and set everything on fire.
I would argue option A. has the most potential with arguably equal or less downside than the others.
But JHam gets a chance to audition. Seriously, I don't see him doing any worse than Fu the rest of the season. Same maybe, but not worse.
Thought that was already kinda in process (slow burn🔥)
Fair enough.
FTFY
Fixed That For Myself(?)
FTFY :)
Right.
I decided to do a cutting-edge breakdown analysis of bar1990's list above (link) using a highly scientific, well-regarded, tried-and-true, battle-tasted method that we all love here at TKP: name anagrams. Some verrrrry interesting results.
Perhaps some foreshadowing of his interactions with ACC refs? Maybe even Pat Narduzzi? This anagram commands some serious confidence. Looks like we're off to a strong start here.
Never mind that strong start.... He's destined to wind up at South Bend with an anagram like this.
Sure sounds like he'll leave the hokies high-and-dry even while the honeymoon period of having a new head coach is still ongoing
Hard pass. Never trust a man whose name's got no anagrams. *sweats nervously* Except Joe Lanza. Always trust Joe Lanza.
The righteous anger of Brent Venables on the tv broadcast has been a CFB fixture. I think he'd fit in well in Blacksburg, but not sure how his success as a long-time coordinator would translate to a head coaching gig. would he still need a get-back guy if he was the head whistle? Would the passion and anger as DC be unleashed in the fullest version of all its fury as HC? Or would the other responsibilities smother the fire, so to speak? Either way, the fact that his get-back guy is named "Adam Smotherman" doesn't get nearly enough press. If that's not a clear cut case of nominative determinism, I don't know what is.
It's clear from the anagram that clemson has made the man and not vice versa. that's gonna be a no from me dawg.
Enough said. More suited to be Bronco's successor up the road.
In this case, many clowns. We, the message board faithful who watch and support this floundering team week after week, hoping for change, expecting a change, clinging to the faint glimmer of a dream that maybe, just maybe, this upcoming year's game vs Pitt will be different -- we're the clowns. you're a clown. i'm a clown. pls save us, dave. ya gotta
Better suited for P5 groundskeeper than HC at this stage of his career. Next!
Are these even words? no. does it even matter? also no. If Whit goes the route of elevating Justin Hamilton to HC, there is one call, and one call only, to make for OC.
Really disappointing anagram for a guy whose name looks like it should anagram to something like Aw Hell Yea at first glance.
I would never ever be dumb enough to endorse someone who uses a soft-g pronunciation for gif. yuck. Even if we finally get the Emma Watson-Team Pie crossover gif all of us superior hard-g Giffers secretly want, it still wouldn't be enough to endorse a Jiffer.
Not sure I want someone whose anagram would so openly stump for replacing the Reach For Excellence stone with an alternative team entrance so tame (and so lame).
This guy's offense would be so bad that we'd be passing around collection money at half time to pay the buyout to hire Scot Loeffler away from Bowling Green? no thanks.
If Whit wants to keep the positive momentum that's been generated in our other varsity sports, he'd best heed the anagram portends and look elsewhere. Frightening stuff, and from a guy whose name somehow also manages to be complete sentence.
Leg for the large effort outlay. But....
pls don't tell my boss
Scream it from the rooftops Chumps!!! You really could've made this into its own post, that was fun. Bravo Sir.
Can't argue with this logic. CHadwell, Napier, and Venibles are clearly our best options. No surprise here.
I would love a splash hire that gets us attention and makes the program fun again, even if it didn't work out in the long run or they jump jobs in 4 years. Those would be Joe Brady, Mike Tomlin, Kellen Moore and Dan Lanning. Brady is going to be a head coach soon anyway, in the Lincoln Riley mold. He's my #1 bold hire.
But for longer term stability we really need a coach who knows what they're doing, P5 and head coach experience preferable. For that mold Fickell, Venables, Clawson and Hafley should be the top choices in that order. Make Fickell and Venables turn you down then choose the better fit between Hafley and Clawson.
Chadwell and Napier are two other similar options but Napier is a guy who recruits exclusively Louisiana and Texas. He's a much better fit for the Texas schools than us. Needs to shift his entire recruiting footprint. Chadwell may not have P5 coaching experience but he turned Coastal around from nothing in four years and his offenses are way more impressive than anything Fuente did at Memphis. I'd be willing to take a shot with either of these guys I think they check the boxes.
I'll take any of these 10 options over the field with Brady, Tomlin, Fickell and Venables clearly head and shoulders above the rest. Make them all decline you before you talk to anyone else.
If Napier recruits Texas, we already have the TX2VT pipeline open.... /s
i like chadwell...seems like he has created a culture that his players love, and we need that here...we need to stop the transfers. but, what i think is a very valid reservation about him, did he get lucky and catch lightening in a bottle with grayson mccall?
I think that this is an impossible ask. The transfer portal is here to stay and we are going to have to cope with it
Agree with this. The better strategy is to use the transfer portal to our advantage and improve the team with it.
I agree with this, but also agree with OP that we need to stop the large numbers of players transferring out every year
Their schedule this season is a joke
Napier recruits exclusively Louisiana and Texas because he's located in Lafayette and Louisiana/Houston are two of the most talent rich areas in the entire country. There's no reason to recruit anything else.
He is from Eastern Tennessee, played at Furman, and coached at Clemson. He's recruited 757 (Tajh Boyd), DMV (Trevon Diggs), Florida (Calvin Ridley), and both Carolinas. He shifted his recruiting footprint to fit his school. I think he's more of a fit in SWVA than Lafayette and could easily switch back to East Coast recruiting. He's done it before, and pretty well I might add.
This. I agree. I would love to see him come to B'burg.
I'd put Napier at the top of the list of all the realistic, viable names I've heard
I don't understand why you put Venables so high up. It doesn't appear he wants to be a HC and there's little to indicate he would be a great one. You also placed him above two known quantities in Clawson and Hafley.
Venables is a great coach, and he has a lot of intensity.
If he wanted to be a head coach, I don't know why he couldn't be a good one.
A lot of the head coach job is being connected enough in the industry to hire really good people around you, so that should be a primary criterion. Given a choice, though, I'd love to see some SEC connections, over ACC or Big 12. All of that said, I guess we have to look at what's available.
If Venables were announced as head coach, and was bringing some reasonable staff, I'd allow it.
Sure he's a great DC, but that doesn't translate in being a great HC. I'd rather have a proven commodity than take a risk on a coordinator.
I don't think there are proven commodities at VT's position and price range. Whit isn't pulling away Saban or Dabo. So the options are basically:
Option A: successful G5 head coach who isn't proven as a P5 coach/program builder
Option B: successful P5 coordinator who isn't proven as a head coach
Option C: former P5 coach who had success but ended up having things turn south on him and got canned
In a vacuum, I'd lean towards B, but that's probably a Fuente overcorrection. Any of them could work and any of them could fail depending on the coach.
I'd argue there's an Option D: current P5 coach punching above their weight at a lower tier program. The example here is Dave Clawson. He's worked his way up to 3rd in the Atlantic in 2019 (Clemson usually is #1) and is currently sitting at number 1 in the Atlantic at 6-0. All this with recruiting classes that have been in the 60s and bottom 2 in the ACC. Not sure if there are similar coaches in other conferences, but Clawson is local, so already familiar with some of the local recruiting as well. Wake bumped up his pay recently - looks like it jumped from $2.3M in 2020 to $3.6M in 2021.
Because he's been the key piece in multiple playoff and championship runs and is one of the best in the business.
Doesn't necessarily transfer over to being an HC but it's worth the risk imo
There is no sense in keeping Fuente till end of the year. the least we can do is get an interim coach in there (J-Ham) and try and at least see what other method we can implement for the offense. I believe Fuente has screwed this thing up so far that his own initial vision of the offense is dead.
I think Fuente will get a job somewhere else and he probably will be a decent group of 5 coach but he doesn't have the It factor to being a top notch coach.
Would Frank Beamer come back to finish out the year? He still has a love for VT. The fan base would (mostly) love it, but I doubt it.
I don't know how anybody can walk into a program mid-year and make changes to a different style. It could only stain his reputation as a winning coach. I think he likes retirement. He is also invested in Shane's success at USC.
I'm not the one who downvoted, but why do that to the guy?
It would be a Bill Snyder or Barry Alverez esque move, there's definitely precedent for it
Was thinking about this earlier and I'm not a fan.
1. I think it's a bad look to bring him back and we have to hear the whole "Legend", "Replace a Legend", "Legend, legend, blah, blah" thing with the next hire.
2. It'll hurt his stats. He's not going to win games with this team.
That said,....
I'd love for the university to make Bud the interim. Give him the whistle and tell him his mission is to have a good time, no stress, no expectations, he's just helping us out for the remainder of the season.
He always wanted it and maybe he can get the HoF recognition for his defenses that he deserves after checking the HC box.
Except apparently you have to have been a head coach for 10 years per the language someone posted recently.
Want a crazy idea? Here's one:
Finding exactly the right person to be a HC at a college football program is hard because everyone is looking for a unicorn. Gotta have deep Xs and Os knowledge. In-game management. Lightning-fast decision-making. Recruiting prowess. Player development. Work well with reporters. Connect with fans. Engage donors. Bring back alumni players. Get support from admin/board. Hire and retain the right staff. Build tight bonds with all players. Manage the portal.
Let's be real: How many people out there are truly good at all of those things? A few maybe. A few unicorns.
Part of the problem is there's a giant gap between the responsibilities of the AD and those of the head football coach. The AD (understandably) doesn't want to step on toes in any one sport. The head coach, typically, just wants to deal with on-field product. So the layer in between — certainly playing out right now for us — leaves a lot to be desired.
Obviously there's the 10 coach NCAA limit, but to really invent the future let's hire a GM. It's a totally different skill set. The GM handles strategy, as the CEO of Tech football. Separate the big-picture stuff from the day-to-day act of coaching. Be the public face. Makes shit happen. Get resources. Focus on talent pipeline and relationships ... and let football coaches think a bit more narrowly.
Won't happen. Just musing.
We don't really invent the future anymore. The PR firm we paid a million dollars to said we already did that. Gave us a fun new logo everyone loves to boot. /s
But really, I like your idea here. I think it jives with the direction of college football right now (see e.g., NIL). The first school to do this is going to strike gold. I'm just afraid it's not going to be us.
Barton Simmons - former director of scouting for 247 Sports - is currently the GM at Vanderbilt. Hired last winter by new HC Clark Lea.
.... my bad. Should've been more clear. The first major college football progrum with a winning pedigree to make this move is going to strike gold.
I mean - most of the best coaches are basically GMs. Saban, Dabo, Coach O, etc They dictate recruiting strategy, Offensive strategy, defensive strategy, practice strategy, etc. They're not in the weeds (accept for maybe the one position group they choose to keep coaching).
If you're talking about all the other stuff - donor relations, Ops & Logistics, marketing, etc - I don't want the person who runs the football running that stuff.
Also - 'Make Shit Happen' and 'Big Picture Stuff' are kinda at odds with each other...
In the same vein, what about changing responsibilities to improve developmental instruction?
Since there is a NCAA limit on weekly practice time, why not divide the team into two groups that are both getting full attention of the coaches.
1st & 2nd string get a full practice, geared to implementing the nuances of the weekly game plan;
3rd & 4th string get a full practice, geared toward technique improvements and mastery of the playbook.
This would equate to doubling the NCAA limit on practice time. Each player would increase the number of reps they run and increase the amount of instruction they receive.
Would this improve development from having 3rd, 4th stingers operating the scout team?
The scout team mimics your weekly opponent instead of working on their own attributes. Would 1s vs 1s or 1s vs 2s be a suitable replacement for having a scout team?
To implement this, you would need to focus coaches on coaching and have other individuals handle more managerial aspects of the program.
I am going to guess there are rules that prohibit this or else someone would have figured this out already.
Also, you want your 1's and 2's going against the looks that they will see. If they have to spend time learning to mimic the opponents' looks each week, that's time that they are not working on our game plan.
Super Bowl Winning Head Coach Jon Gruden.
Why? In what world would anyone want him coaching anywhere?
I thought that thread got deleted
We can't hire Gruden for several reasons, one being that he hasn't completed the "SARP" or Saban Assistant Redemption Program yet like Kiffin, Sark, various Tennessee coaches etc.....
Further, he can't complete option 2 which would require Hugh Freeze to leave Liberty so he can coach there for a few years.
Did you borrow
from somewhere or is this your own creation? Either way I like it. And there is a bunch of truth to that observation.
No, it's an original but feel free to use it!!!!!
My favorite is "Nick Sabans School for Wayward Boys"
Dambbbb coastals offense looking mighty fun
After watching the Coastal game...
The other thing I think we should do when looking at new candidates is look at the things we didn't like about Fuente and make sure any new coaches don't have similar tendencies. Fuente doesn't like dealing with the press and limits player availability to the press. I went and looked at Clawson - there are a bunch of interviews posted with him (post games), and watched one or two. WF also has a ton of player interviews posted, as well as videos from practices. I tried looking for interviews with Napier and his players and couldn't find anything at all for their players, so not sure if Napier is limiting their availability to the press or Louisiana just has a really crappy media department (or both). There are a lot of interviews from Napier, so could always get a feel for him that way.
Fan engagement is another. I know that's not as important as recruiting and the Ws, but if the Ws don't come right away, how good are they at communicating their vision to the fans and getting the fans excited about the team and future of the team?
So what are the other things Fuente has done that we don't want to see from a new candidate? Wasn't there something related to keeping press out of spring practices or something like that?
We mostly want a coach who can recruit and win games, and runs a clean, respectable program. In other words, he treats the student athletes well.
Do we really care if he's best buds with the media?
I dunno, the media thing became a huge point of contention with Fuente. I ordinarily wouldn't care about media relations if the coach was successful early in his time at Tech (as was Fuente). But after things went downhill, everyone was left wondering what the hell was going on, and wanted some sort of engagement. Is it crucial? No. Is it nice to have vs not? Yes.
It was a number of things but it goes beyond just losing I think - the media thing goes hand in hand with recruiting and "building/selling the program" and it became a big point of contention when we were not only losing on the field but also started bringing in G5 -caliber recruiting classes and just generally spiraling in every aspect of the program - there was no "hope" being sold, he just continued putting up walls and shutting out everyone on the outside and it just gave the impression that he was either ignorant or didn't care.
But yeah, if we're winning I don't think anyone really cares.
It's not about being "best buds" with anyone, media or otherwise. It's about being a kick-ass CEO and effectively using ALL of the resources at your disposal to build a championship-caliber organization. When it comes to the media, that means taking full advantage of the publicity/exposure whenever it can help the program. It means not letting your ego get in the way, and trusting your assistants and players to represent the team well. And yes, sometimes it means biting your tongue and putting up with idiots like Berman.
Once you have enough championship rings to need two hands, then you've earned the right to go full Belichick. Until then, I expect the HC to manage the relationship with the media in such a way that it maximizes the benefit to the program. As my old man drilled in to me: "you don't have to like it, you just have to do it".
Keep it clean, and just win, baby!!
It sounds like Rhule might be listening to some opportunities in the college ranks.... Not sure there is any realistic chance we could get him, but if he's available, I'd definitely at least hope we've reached out.
Yep, probably should have got him last time tbh
Wasn't Rhule on the shortlist when we were looking after Beamer? And Matt Campbell too? Dang we got the short end of that stick.
I went back and looked at TKP's coach mega board. Honestly, MOST of the other people on the list have been even less successful since it was created - RichRod, Chad Morris, Addazio, Richt, Butch Jones, etc.
On the other end, apparently Kirby Smart was interested.
I can't believe we are not seeing the name "RichRod" thrown around.
/s
Is Fireman okay? 4 hours is a long time for him not to respond to this
As I sit here waiting to be hurt again tomorrow, I still find myself asking is firing Fuente right now the best move? I've definitely been in the group wanting to replace Fuente as of late, but as we look deeper at the landscape of college football around us currently is that the best move? Challenge #1 what other jobs become available, currently we have LSU and USC at the top but as the season continues we could certainly see more in our range or maybe even slightly above (Miami). With that said what candidates would be available by the time the other schools select their choices? Are we left with a better outcome hiring someone new burning everything down and probably still having a thin supporting cast around them? Or... or I ask myself would we be better to think unconventionally.. would we be better off taking the money we would use to fire Fuente and pay his buyout and use that money to instead buy a big time OC and support staff for the next few years and see what Fuente can really do, while also hopefully keeping most of this years recruiting class in tact. Now I know... I know Fuente has refused to fire Corn to this point so all this may be moot. But realistically thinking if we could lure away a good SEC or BIG coordinator for a bigger payday knowing they may leave a few years down the road for a better job. Could that indeed be a better future forward for our program? So as I sit here reflecting hoping for a can of whip-ass against the Orange in Blacksburg tomorrow, I ask all Hokies to at least trust in Whit, he has nailed almost every hire he's made and maybe he has a trick up his sleeve we're not even considering.
This is not a singular person's thought. This too, has been spinning inside my head. I stated on another thread that we are 1 yard and 1 yard away from being 5-1. For shits and giggles let's say Fu and team got the WVU TD and converted one more first down late in the ND game to ice both games, would we say fire Fu and Corn? Or, would we be saying, Fu is cutting it wayyyyy close but it figuring a way to win but not enough to keep Corn. So, come season's end, it's fire Corn or you're both gone and then hunt for the OC we need.
Good coaches win close games. Fuente loses close games. I don't think we should put much stock in the games being close. We lost games that could have been won with better coaching. That's the key.
If VT loses today Fuente should be fired immediately. Make jham the interim and see what he can do.
Syracuse has won something like 7 road acc games in Dino's tenure. They're a terrible road team and have absolutely no business winning in Lane today.
FTR, I think VT wins today. I think Fuente is bad but he can't be that bad. I think he should be fired at the end of this season. Only thing that would change my opinion on that would be losing today.
I believe the collective here agrees with you if we lose today. I do. Rip if off. As you stated, let JHam have a go. My only counter is if Fu had an actual OC what would our team look like today? What if we had a respectable offense? Would the transfer portal over the recent years been more favorable? Would our record be more favorable.l? Unfortunately, just like finding out what QP could have been, we will never know. And, the Fu getting a new OC ship has sailed. It's over for him either today, the end of the season, or somewhere in-between.
This isn't/shouldn't be an option. I think you're putting a lot of red flags up in future coaching searches if you start controlling the jobs that the Head Coach is responsible for filling. The AD tooling around with the staff outside of the head-coach directly is never a good look.
I know people love continuity at the head coach position but being a spring board for coaches isn't a bad thing, its about carrying the momentum. If a coach leaves on his own accord after 3 years that likely means he's accelerated the program to a point where he's an attractive candidate nationally, which means VT football is healthy (healthier than it is now for sure). The replacement hire is then very important but you don't owe buyout money and you have a good product to sell (minus some recruits that may follow the HC). Hokies BB wouldn't be where it is without Buzz. A rising tide lifts all ships
I think he's suggesting that you let Fuente do the hiring. You just insist on changes to some positions.
"We'll give you your buy out, and you may go, OR fire Cornelson, and we give you a third of your buy out as additional salary for your new OC and staff." So, what, $2.5 million in additional salary for his staff if he changes OCs?
If we liked JHam, and we were OK with Fuente if he had a different OC, this could have had potential.
We may be past all that at this point, though.
Fair enough but yeah I think we're a few years past this because you get a new OC in and they're really going to need at least 2 years to show significant change for the future...if it goes poorly and it turns out the HC is the issue we're in an even bigger hole.
If Corny is so bad, as everyone says he is, it won't take 2 years to show significant improvement. Hell, everyone believes that if we had even a slightly better OC, we would be 6-1 right now instead of 3-4.
I do agree that the time for staff changes is gone. Fuente has looked lost and needs a change of scenery at this point.
I hate this idea of how just plugging in a new OC suddenly gains wins. There are a lot more aspects of what goes on with changing an OC. Sure that film review and play calling might change but the OC would have to learn who his players are find their strengths, adapt situational play calling to that, build relationships, develop plays...like all of this stuff takes time you've got 20+ kids on offense that have been with the same OC, a handful of positions coaches who have reported to the same OC all building relationships. Corny is not good. You can't just plug in a new OC and instantly get wins and the idea that the future is going to be brighter it doesn't work like that in any industry and it certainly doesn't work like that in coaching.
If you plug a new OC in during the offseason and he has spring ball and fall camp to work with the offense, he should be able to figure out all that stuff, assuming he's been a OC before.
If you plug a new guy in after game 3 of the regular season you are correct.
I hate to say it but the OC change might result in immediate benefits. Fuente admits he spent the last week working with the offense instead of the scout team. Results, offensive highs in yards and points also the worst defensive performance of the year. So the defense had a worse result from a poorer coached scout team, but the offense did better. An new OC that can actually work the offense instead of the HC gets us the best of both worlds.
Here's a name not tossed around Bill O brien
Make French head coach. We know he watches film.
Plus you know the team is going to get a high protein diet, fishing pays dividends.
Deion Primetime Sanders...🤷🏻♂️
As we seem to be on the slow march toward ending the season with a losing record and a coach out the door (deservedly) I think it's important to keep in mind the lessons we learned this time around.
1) To be successful at Virginia Tech, you have to be at least somewhat passionate about Blacksburg, the school, and the region.
2) A great football mind doesn't guarantee success.
3) Personality means a lot more than we may have previously thought.
4) Proven success matters. Achieving and having connections to elite success at the P5 level is very important.
That being said, I think Napier, Elliott, Freeze are relatively safe/rational choices. JHam (+ big money for proven OC, DC, and support staff) is the "lighting in a bottle" scenario that my heart wants, but my brain is actively dissuading me from. The next head whistle may not be any of those coaches, but one thing is for certain, the next regime needs moderate success-at least-for the future of football in Blacksburg. We could be staring down the barrel of a 10+ year rebuild.
Then why list Freeze?
Personality, not morality.
Duded definitely has a personality....
I list Freeze because his guys at Liberty and Ole Miss ran/run through walls for him. Also comes across as very personable in media appearances. Also, Oxford escort services report that he was consistently a vivacious and charismatic customer!
If you want on field results, Freeze has to be in the discussion.
A modern offense? Put Freeze on the list.
Excitement for recruiting? Freeze needs to be top 10.
Capable of talking in front of crazy donors with odd ass demands? Freeze definitely should be in the top 5.
Running a clean program? Okay, we get it with the whole escort thing, but now there's NIL, and a different approach to recruiting. He's doing okay at Liberty, and I can see it translate in the ACC.
Let's start with his fake as shit evangelical self. Then that he isn't smart enough to not order call girls on his work phone, then he wasn't smart enough to erase those calls and texts from his phone when it was requested in a lawsuit THEN when given a second chance to remove them he still didn't do it. That's who you want coaching the states flagship football program?
Damn, it was quite a coincidence ProPublica published a story today about Liberty University hiding rape cases.
Football in a vacuum, yes, I think Freeze makes sense. He definitely has issues. But what if he's already on Whit's radar? What if he's hired? What'll you do Fireman?
Some thing I've already emailed the Hokie Club, Whit and Sands for playing a football game AT Liberty withhold donations, season tickets and become a loud obnoxious presence about it. We shouldn't ignore character issues just because it helps win a few games.
can't speak for HF, but personally I would stop attending games, stop donating to hokie club and probably (can't say for sure) stop watching games. there's a list of coaches that I draw the line at, and freeze is one of them. I doubt I am alone in this.
there isn't only one good coach out there who could succeed at VT and hiring a retread with a problematic history indicates a plan that I won't support but that's just me personally.
I'm 100% with you.
I literally care about winning football. That's it. I don't care who it is at the helm.
Yea, Baylor and PSU said the same thing
Worked out for ped state
Didn't work out for those kids...
So the whole core of what college football is you don't care about?yea I'll gladly skip winning at all costs coaching and admin types.
I don't know if the "core" of college football is morality and "winning the right way". If anything, we have seen that the core of college football is maximizing profits over all.
Students at colleges playing for those colleges. At the core doesn't matter about NIL, or salaries etc it's still students for a school.
I guess I'm just jaded, but what I hear you saying is equivalent to "WWE is still real wrestling. At its core, it isn't about the plot or schemes or fixed matches, its still people wrestling."
I guess I think it has gotten so far away from "students playing for a school" that your statement doesn't ring true for me anymore. But that's just me.
ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMNIT!
I think we define it a little differently. Probably why I didn't think Fuente was right for us just because he's a stand up guy
Exactly. Winning is all that matters. Fuck coach personality. That line of thinking is why we are losers.
If all you care about is winning, then why are you a VT fan? We are almost certainly never going to win a national championship. We will likely never be a perpetual playoff contender no matter who we hire as a coach. If you don't care about Virginia Tech, then why the hell are you here? Go root for Alabama or some other top 5 school and pretend you've been a fan for years.
If you don't care how hiring a piece of shit as our football coach diminishes the integrity of Virginia Tech and its reputation as an institution, then kindly fuck off to the SEC.
there's no need for this
we're all upset because the football team is struggling but we don't need to be nasty to one another
I'm not mad about Fuente. I'm mad at people who believe that winning is all that matters and who cares if a perspective head coach is a scumbag. I think that's a bad attitude and it will only make things worse in the long run.
Everything was fine until your last bit, which was out of line.
I'm otherwise in agreement, VT Football shouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
In fact, we should have canceled our series with Liberty a long time ago. Were I Whit we wouldn't give them a dime.
Lol, I have two degrees from better schools (academically and athletically) so I guess I can cheer for them. However, I went to VT in undergrad therefore I always cheer for them. I never advocated for hiring Freeze but making coaching personality a priority in a search is ass backwards. Plus, when the football coach has more of a reputation than anything else at a school you know the school isn't doing so well anyways, see all of the major SEC schools.
My anger was more due to the "winning is all that matters" attitude. I apologize if I crossed a line.
Hiring Freeze would devalue the University and everything it stands for. F*** no!
We'd have to tear down at least one of the Pylons (Honor), possibly two (Leadership).
I think everyone is passing over Hugh Freeze too quickly.
Think of the benefits:
- Escorts as the backdrop to every post-game press conference.
Press: "Hugh, why did you go for it on 4th and 37 from your own 2 yard line in the 1st quarter?"
Hugh: "Have you met Bethany? She likes long walks and trying new things..."
- Instead of the Hokie bird, escorts get carried up and down the stands by fans.
- Instead of the Corp of cadets doing push-ups for every point scored...
- When Hugh goes to visit local fans in Virginia cities, let's just say it's always sold out
You've just got to embrace this versus hope he's rehabilitated and / or run from it.
I hope people get this TIC.
I like it. I get your vision. I see post game pressers starting like
Edit: The above is obviously for a victory presser. I can see answering the tough questions after a loss being
I'm pretty sure they already did this at Miami.
Na, they've didn't let uncle Luke talk at the official press conferences
Sure, but the giant gold turnover chain was a clue.
I'm gonna talk about Dave Clawson again. Wake is 7-0, and looking at their schedule, it seems like they have a pretty good chance of making it through the rest of their schedule with maybe 1 loss - to NC State. It's looking like they'd play Pitt in the ACCCG. Let's assume Wake wins the ACCCG - seems kinda likely to me. Assume either Mich. or Mich State wins Big 10, Oklahoma wins Big 12, and if Georgia beats Alabama, it would be one of those 2 from Big 10, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Wake in the playoffs? Wake's recruiting classes are in the 60s and usually one of the bottom 3 in the ACC. Yes, it's a down year for the ACC, but look what he'd doing with what he's got.
One thing is for sure. His stock at Wake will never be higher than it is now, so this is the year to get him for top dollar...
This is a quality zinger
Or get him now before he potentially does better? If he strings a couple seasons together with 10+ wins, his stock may go up more. I'm not sure I buy that his stock is the highest it will ever get. It may or may not.
Edit: The alternative appears to be someone without HC experience, whether it's a coordinator from another P5 program or from a non-P5 school. We saw that Fuente couldn't recreate his success from Memphis, so seems like most other hires have a lot more risk of similar results as Fuente. To me, the big question mark for Clawson is can he recruit well enough to get the type of maintained success we want. Do we pay for more of a sure thing? What do you think we should do? What do you think the down sides to Clawson are, other than overpaying for him?
TBF, Wake is expected to go 1-4 over it's last 5 games (according to advanced metrics). They are currently all offense and below average defense. We'll see.
That said, I still like Dave Clawson and with the right hires for coordinator, he would be a good coach at VT.
That seems weird - they'll beat Duke. BC has lost 3 in a row and the only P5 opponent they've beaten is Missouri, who is 3-4 and hasn't beaten any P5 opponents. Clemson is averaging 20 points and 321 yards per game, Wake hasn't scored less than 35 points in any game and averages 469 ypg - I think Wake will outscore them. That leaves NC State and UNC. NC State beat Clemson but lost to a bad Miami team, and none of State's wins tell me they're really all that good. UNC may be tough for Wake, but also don't feel like Carolina's defense is really that strong. We'll see how this ages, but my prediction is Wake wins out or loses 1 tops.
The preseason projections are probably hurting WF and still boosting Clemson and UNC to a degree, but the advanced metrics really dislike Wake's defense (ranked 75th after week 7). As I said in my message below, Wake is most likely (66% chance) winning 2 or 3 more games based on SP+.
Called the loss to UNC.
I can still be right if they win the other 3. Even though they lost, they put up a LOT of points. If they can do that against the other teams they still have to play, I don't think the others can win in a shooting match. Based on today's results, I think they definitely beat BC and Clemson. We'll see about NC State, but I think Wake has a pretty good shot at them.
Which metrics are you using? SP+ or FPI or something else?
I heard Bill Connelly say as much on last Friday's Solid Verbal episode (which is SP+) and I double checked what I heard on ESPN FPI. But, those projections didn't include the results from the Army game yet.
Based on updates on their win against Army, ESPN FPI projects 2-3 ending with easy win over Duke and toss-up win against BC. UNC and NC State are toss-up losses. Clemson is projected as a solid loss.
According to Bill Connelly's updated SP+ projections he tweeted out, Wake has a 35% chance of ending 2-3 for season; 31% chance ending 3-2; 19% chance ending 1-4; 11% chance ending 4-1; 3% chance going 0-5; and 1% chance going 5-0.
I wish we could follow posts. I'd be very curious how Wake ends the season compared to these projections. I may very well forget to check, so would like to follow this as a reminder.
You can copy the link address (right click on the #, I think) and save it off line in a word doc or something. Then you could revisit the comment later, in theory. I haven't tried it (yet) so not sure if good idea or gritty idea
Or right click on the #, open in a new tab, and then save it to favorites.
Yeah this would work well. I was kinda thinking ahead. If I had several comments that I'd like to revisit I'd rather store them off-line and not gum up my favorites list. If you're only interested in revisiting one comment then the bookmark is way more efficient
If you want to follow up, could always do an appointment on like your phone calendar, make the date whatever after the last game (in the case of WF results in this instance or whatever trigger for the comment you're following), then put the comment link in the appointment info. That's a great idea - thanks for suggesting using the link!
I would suggest to just follow Bill Connelly on twitter: @ESPN_BillC
He keeps his SP+ data up to date there and you can follow the trajectory in his spreadsheets, as they are just updated with new tab every week:
SP+
But SP+ data is updated, so I'm assuming projected wins/losses would as well, right? I'm curious how these projections play out.
Yea, unlike the rankings, it appears he just updates the wins and losses, doesnt keep them week to week. So. You would have to snapshot them or something weekly.
The more I think about it, if Whit does actually make the change, Clawson seems like the safe hire for him. He knows he's got to get VT football turned around, and Clawson has definitely turned around every program he's been and turned them into a winner. Now the recruiting is the big unknown - but he's never really had the resources to recruit at a big time P5 school. I think he fits the mold of what VT wants first and foremost (good person, strong values/morals, runs a clean program, focused on the student athlete rather than win at all costs). That might not be what some of our fan base want, as I think some believe we will hire some SEC-style salesman and start raking in the 4 and 5 stars. Don't think that is the administration's vision. I don't think VT is ever going to embrace anyone who even remotely dabbles in the shadiness of modern recruiting tactics.
It's obvious who the next head coach should be!
Bottlecaps >>> Spree (but I like Spree, too)
My friends consistently roast me for loving Bottlecaps. I would like to hear Coach Leach's take on them.
there's still candy innovation!
Cannot agree with the hate for candy corn. I rot my teeth out each year with that stuff.
Recently my wife tells me phenomenal information that if you mix candy corn and peanuts together it tastes just like a Payday (which BTW is the greatest candy bar of all time). That is my new thing.
My wife loves that mix as well.
So Dan Mullen really trying to get fired? I'd take him in a heartbeat.
I agree. Dude has done pretty good everywhere he has been. Unfortunately he makes almost $8million currently. I don't see that happening here.
Makes me chuckle a little bit to think about these SEC "schools" getting completely fleeced by football coaches who get $5-$8 mil salaries and then just switch into IDGAF mode once the ink is dry on their enormous buyouts. I mean that's not F-you money, but it's luxe retirement money. You can live pretty well off the yield from $10 mil in the kitty and probably never NEED to work a day again in your life.
Halftime interview:
"Play better."
"Awful."
Wasn't he in the discussion in 2015?
Yes. Rumor (no reliable sources) is that he would only come if he could bring Todd Grantham as DC and Whit wanted to keep Foster on staff. Also, Mullen is known as being difficult to work with, rubs a lot of people the wrong way, has allegedly bombed any interviews.
So we refused to hire a coach because he wanted to bring his own DC, who had SEC (x3) and NFL experience, who also coached 5 years and played 4 years at Tech, and who grew up here, because we wanted to keep our existing DC? I get loyalty, and Bud deserved it more than anyone, but he's gotta leave eventually... and when Beamer left was the time that made the most sense.
If this is true... if... seems like that was a mistake.
(I don't know enough about Mullen or Grantham to say if they would've worked out better than Fuente, so my above statement assumes that at the time they were considered desirable coaches, much like Fuente was.)
It could also be that Whit knew Fuente didn't have as good a DC as Bud, so, in an effort to try to get the best on-field product available, was hoping to keep Bud. And, if I recall, the worry was that Bud would leave looking for a HC spot. If we hired someone with a good DC, maybe Whit would have just promoted Bud? But I think Whit was really trying to bring some high powered offense to Blacksburg, and if you matched that with the typical Bud Foster defenses, we would be REALLY hard to beat.
I don't think Whit was too worried about Bud leaving for a different HC spot.
I think he genuinely believed that it would be a good fit, and very popular with the fan base.
In hindsight, though, mixing an established culture and coaching staff on half your team with a new head coach is probably a little bit tougher than it originally seemed.
Yeah, I agree, thought it would be a good fit. I thought I remembered lots of stuff saying Bud was really interested in a HC position and people were worried that if Whit hired from outside, Bud would leave. Not sure how true any of that was, just thought I remembered seeing that from multiple sources (not as in the program, but people saying that on multiple sites (before I had limited my reading to TKP)).
Yeah, having to build up a new defensive scheme from last year to now isn't ideal. But maybe the idea was that Fuente could build a strong offense and the defense could transition after that and hopefully overall performance would be better than if we did all of it at once. Who knows. I mean, I think JHam has promise and would love to see how his defenses look in another year or two. You know, build up some depth on D rather than always recruiting RBs and QBs.
Nooooooo thank you. Please no. "Insert Michael Scott no gif".
Explain
1st, according to some it sounds like he's already worn out his welcome at Florida. He's isn't great with the media, he's botched their quarterback situation this season, and he kept on Todd Grantham at DC.
Florida appears to have regressed slightly in recruiting, and if you compare his records to prior coaches that got the boot in recent years it hasn't really been an improvement. His best year so far came with heavy utilization of the prior staffs players (sound familiar?).
Just don't think we want to hire someone who I suspect will have many of the same problems as the current head coach, just because they have SEC pedigree.
If we're now all of the sudden too good for Dan Mullen y'all are out of your mind, you don't have to worry about it, because it's a pipe dream at best, but if we got Mullen I would be thrilled.
If he wants to come to VT, and we can come to terms on salary, he's absolutely in.
Not sure I said we are too good for Mullen - just that I don't think he should be a top choice and that he'd be more likely be a flash in the pan at best.
My opinion of Mullen is based mainly on his resume from Mississippi St. where he performed at a high level for that program pretty consistently. VT has much higher potential than Miss St. but the geographic and small town problems are similar.
Issues with wearing out his welcome aren't things I've heard at the national level. But I'd expect UF boosters and media to be more intense than those in Blacksburg.
Florida expects to be recruiting right next to Georgia, which maybe is reasonable, but is still difficult. He still seems to recruit pretty well and has recruited VA. As for his best year, last year wasn't a full sample size and a down year this year could be rectified next year.
All in all I don't take anything outside the Grantham thing as red flags. They could still finish this year hot, but if he got fired he'd be my #1 option immediately. Proven coach at the P5 level who can outperform his talent level and has experience running a big time program.
EDIT: His win totals his first 3 years 10, 11, 8.
We are going to the UGA/UF game and tailgating prior with one of their board of trustees, I'll listen to see what he and his friends have to say pre game and post.
So follow up to this not sure how relevant it was but he and his friends absolutely refused to talk about anything doing with the coaching situation the future of Coach Mullen or anything else.
It says they may actually know stuff.
The tailgate they have put on is something else though. Huge two tents, three TVs, full bar, wings, bbq, Turkey, brats, dozens of sides, all kinds of dips and chips, right on the river across the street from the stadium.
Sounds like an awesome experience.
I know I speak for everyone, when I say Rich Rod is the right coach for VT.
Only because we can't have a Zombie Bear Bryant
I know what you're trying to do here...and I hope it works.
It worked.
/s
great reference. that clown went on to become a beloved actor and director.
Can you blow me where the pampers is?
I didn't,,,, exhale?
Finebaum thinks Shane could be interested .... https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc...
"There's no other team that I'd rather be the head coach of," Beamer said.
In this quote he is referring to USCe. So that solves it, Lil Beams will be the next head coach of VT
Like who is thinking that? It's not like Frank has this massive impressive coaching tree. SEC talking heads are some of the worst.
Scot Loeffler! ... I kid.
The list is short.
Stinespring, wasn't great at calling plays but could recruit. Not sure how well he would do at the HC podium.
Shane ...
Loeffler is a HC with a good amount of P5 experience. But ugh I hated his offenses.
Jeff Grimes not quite a disciple, and probably wants to be in Texas.
Lorenzo Ward is no longer in FBS, but has P5 exp and coached 2 P5 games.
Aaron Moorehead is still a WR coach, but I'd take him back in a second.
Kevin Rogers doesn't have HC exp, but tons of NFL and can call some plays based on rumors.
Rickey Bustle hasn't coached college in almost a decade.
Wiles, Gray, brown, o'cain all were only position coaches. Also just plain no for O'cain
Grantham has a whole host of issues.
Bud has health issues.
Someone did their homework.
/s
Seriously though. Nice work. Mind if I look over your shoulder come test time?
I tend to agree to the thought that a 'disciple' of Frank is wanted, but I'd say based on the requested desires of the next ball coach, both here and outside TKP, are viewed through very tinted Frank colored shades. Not that it's a bad thing, but also that we cannot continue to hold every possible coach to the standards of Frank. Then, it's not just Shane who has to escape from the shadow, it's every possible candidate/hire.
Anything that spews out of that SEC worshiper I take with a grain of salt. Personally I dont see it at all he just started his first HC gig hes not jumping ship.
I'm sure Shane is a fine person, but I do not want him as the VT head coach.
Definitely not now, maybe never.
If he somehow turns USCe into a respectable program (which is an impossible task), I'll consider it, but not until then.
People were *really* not happy with him here as a recruiter, position coach etc. If his last name was Smith there'd be absolutely zero clamoring for him to come back to Blacksburg.
I don't know that I would be terribly offended by bringing this level of recruiting back to Blacksburg. Then again I think Paul Finebaum is an idiot and there's no chance Shane leaves Columbia after one year. Pretty sure he'll never coach at Tech again.
Some good recruits in there for sure, but there's always the question of how much of it was Shane and how much of it was (to take Zamir White to UGA for example) the school itself.
Plus there was a lot of grumbling about damaged relationships with HS coaches in RVA / misses on some big recruits he was assigned to.
Virginia Tech has fired Justin Fuente. The leading candidate to replace him is former Virginia Tech head coach Justin Fuente.
I'm thinking more about our last coaching hire when we got Fuente and who ended up becoming one of the best coaches from that cycle and it was a defensive minded coach from a program with a winning tradition Kirby Smart. I say we go all in on Venables, make him say no at least. I think it would be great for multiple reasons. First he's got that fire, the same kind of fire Bud had, he can recruit, also and this is the biggest for me, if we get him that hurts Clemson desperately, especially at a time like this where they're having a down year. I think we take the shot go all in get him a good O coordinator who can score and I think he would flourish. Plus what if he could also land us some portal transfers to help some of our needs immediately, maybe even bring some people with him from Clemson? I think this would be a big time move and especially now with the NCAA relaxing the transfer rules his sons could follow. Let's make him say no and get back to our winning days 10+ every year is where we belong I think Venables, if we can get him may be the safest to get us to that mark.
These last two seasons have put us Hokie fans in a weird spot. Most of us only know 2 VT football head coaches. We're finally getting a taste of what the majority of college football fans deal with from time to time. I just hope we get it right this time
This sure sounds like a guy just chomping at the bit to recruit his hometown 757!
lol yeah came here to share this
Great share. Thank you. Now we can all stop putting Tomlin at the top of potential replacement wish lists. Straight silliness...
HC - Nick Sorensen
DC - JHam/TGran/TGray
OC - Whoever Urban Meyer recommends
There he is.
To be honest, I wouldn't ignore Stiney as head coach. He could plain recruit, is a nice guy, loves the area and smart enough to hire talent for the OC and DC positions. DC would have a good chance of being TG or Jham.
He might be a fit for some school not named VT.
I would welcome him back in some capacity as a recruiter, but absolutely not as a head coach.
That would be a completely uninspired hiring.
What kind of parallel CFB hell did I wake up in?
Last thing I knew before I apparently fell asleep was a resounding win over UNC to start what would be a fantastic year.
This has been a common trend under Fuente. Win early, get ranked and fade as the season goes along.
It's the exact opposite of Frank Beamer teams: struggle early and then win 10 in a row. Frank's teams for the most part steadily improved as the season went along.
So...we....are...Clemsoning?
No Clemsoning is losing unexpectedly. Unfortunately, now I expect to lose close games.
Losing unexpectedly AND losing to South Carolina every year as a ranked team
On his podcast with Stewart Mandel, Bruce Feldman mentioned Sonny Dykes, Jaime Chadwell, and Billy Napier as coaches he thought would make sense. Don't know how much of that is sourced vs speculation.
One of those is not like the others...
Dykes has done a good job at SMU, but he seems like a Texas guy (he's been named for TT), especially after not fitting at Cal.
Yea, exactly. I could get behind both an accomplished G5 HC or an innovative P5 Coordinator. However, my one hard requirement is that I want someone who has recruited at least one of the Mid-Atlantic/The Carolinas/Appalachia before.
What if we give the #TX2VT pipeline a second shot?
Bidding war expected for Dykes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/mac-engel-smu-football-will-try-to-keep-sonny-dykes-but-nothing-will-stop-his-exit/ar-AAQcDLZ
I would be thrilled for Bill O'Brien to get the nod
Sure, me too. That said, a return to Penn State (assuming it opens) would make more sense.
If PSU and VT are both open I'd have to imagine BOB goes back to Happy Valley.
If Franklin doesn't bolt, BOB is shooting up my list rather quickly the more I think about it.
He took over a *terrible* situation at PSU and despite all the damage Fuente has done, we're in a much better place. I don't even care if he uses us as a stepping stone to the next big thing, he'd be a perfect guy to re-ignite the program.
And (perhaps wishful thinking) his disastrous performance in Houston may have taken some of the shine off of him, so he may not be as hard to snag.
I dont see how franklin stays at happy valley and I cant imagine he hired Sexton simply to renegotiate a better deal at PSU. If that job opens up itll make it tougher for us as thatll be another major job opening in same area and all. I wouldnt oppose BOB at all but I'd be curious who he would bring with him for staffing.
Agreed.
Also, I fucking hate Penn State.
"Also, I fucking hate Penn State"
If Franklin leaves and BOB comes to VT that would definitely be a negative for PSU, so you should support my plan :)
I couldn't agree more with this.
Not sure I'd want BOB. Heard that he isn't a great recruiter/ doesn't like it. I'm sure he has to recruit at Bama, but Bama is at the point where they pick and choose who they get for the most part. He had to work a ton harder here, and yes question of who is his staff ? Does he have the rolodex of college capable coaches (ie recruiters) versus NFL guys that haven't or don't want to do it.
A name to think about is Mike Macdonald, a very young DC for Michigan who is in line for the Broyles award in his first season.
Georgia native, DMV ties with coaching for the Ravens for seven years. Hits a lot of checkmarks.
Also married to a Hokie
Who's also a former WFT cheerleader
So you're sayin' (s)he's qualified.
Power couple.
/s
Michael Macdonald eh? That's a hire that might have the fans taking it to the streets
Jamo not going there
Only a fool believes we could hire him as our coach.
He's just alright with me.
How about Kalen DeBoer?
So not great look for SEC coach.
I could imagine that he means talking about recruiting with the media. I hope so at least.
So - also a massive deep dive of what other coaches say about Florida in the Athletic today, let's just say it's not great for Mullen.
What would the thought be if Fuente wins out this season, then fires BC and keeps his job?
If Napier signs elsewhere, this is the road I'd prefer. But if VT was to win out, JF is going to argue very hard that BC was a significant reason why VT did win out and therefore, very unlikely he would fire him. The only scenario here is that Whit demands he make a change at OC.
I agree with this...I know Fuente has said that he's "spent more time" with the offense the last couple of weeks but we don't know exactly how much hand-holding is going on over there. The offense has looked much better the last couple weeks. How much of that is actually Fuente? How much of it will Fuente attribute to Cornelsen "ironing out the minutia"?
If VT wins out on the back of a revitalized offense Fuente is absolutely going to stick his neck out for BC and argue that this resurgence wouldn't have been possible without him. IF that were to happen, then that might be true. Which is why I don't think it will happen.
I think VT will win 2 more games, sneak into a lower tier bowl game against some G5 team and maybe even snag a 7th win to cap the season. Fuente, should he be fired, will move on and probably take Cornelsen with him to wherever he goes. And the offense will look about how it looked in Blacksburg.
yeah, that's sorta what I expected.
unclear what Fuente is actually doing. What does "spending more time...during practice" actually mean?
Are you trying to tell me that either
a) Fuente's presence alone has motivated the players and coaches to suddenly be a lot better the last two weeks?
or
b) Cornelsen suddenly figured it all out, coincidentally, at the EXACT SAME TIME that Fuente began "spending more time" with the first team offense?
We will never know the truth. Fuente will make sure of that. I suspect that he is doing more than he is letting on. I just don't buy that our offense is suddenly significantly improved immediately after he starts "spending more time" with them but BC is still completely in charge. It just doesn't add up.
It also begs the question: If Fuente DID involve himself with game planning and play calling how much better would our stats be on offense? 500+ ypg and 40 ppg?
Fu has to be the most loyal friend in the world. Or Corn has some serious blackmail on Fu /s. It seems he will go to any lengths to protect that guy for whatever reason.
JF is spending the time teaching BC to be an OC???
At one point I was OK with this, but after reviewing the recruiting and seeing the in game decisions this year, I am only OK with this if we get big dogged on all our desired replacements, basically only as a last resort.
If Fuente isn't fired the day his buyout drops I want Whit to pack his shit.
Are we still doing phrasing?
This is a delicate situation now with TCU coming open. I'm sure Fu would love to take that job, and I'm sure Whit would love for him to get it and not have to pay a buyout. But that means definitely no firing him midseason, and you want Fu to finish strong so he is a serious candidate for TCU. No buyout would definitely open up a lot more possibilities for coaches and assistant staff, but we have to be working behind the scenes now or else all our top candidates will be off the board by Dec 15. This has become a serious chess match IMO.
I don't think TCU wants him!
I have absolutely no inside info whatsoever but I can't imagine why anyone would!
If I were a TCU fan I certainly wouldn't. But I'm sure Patterson and Kill will go to bat for Fu. Anything to get us out of the buyout would be amazing.
if I'm TCU I give Fuente the same offer that I SPECULATE Baylor made - We'll hire you but you can't bring Cornelsen. And I imagine Fuente will turn it down.
HMM. Interesting speculation. If true, how many indictments of Corn does he need before he finally takes the blinders off??
My mind is boggled.
I don't understand this kind of blind loyalty.
That's some serious speculating. I don't think Corn has that bad of rep outside of blacksburg. Not saying it's great, but our #s weren't horrible enough to make people make that type of offer.
Whit will NOT fire him mid season - and it has nothing to do with other jobs. Whit has too much respect for the profession to dismiss mid season unless it was for something beyond the field of play, which Fu doesn't seem to be in any danger of.
Doesn't address roster management issues that have plagued the program since 2018.
No. He needs to go. We have no hope of being anything better than a mediocre program as long as he's here. A lot of people on this board focus on Corn, but Fuente is the problem.
Corn is a problem. Fuente is a problem. Perhaps, the problem, though that's a bit tougher to know.
The Corn hate is well deserved IMO, so the focus on that doesn't bother me. I agree with you, though, that Fuente needs to go for various reasons. One of those reasons, of course, being that he has failed, utterly, to do anything about Corn.
I was talking to somebody who pointed out, who was the last OC that the fans didn't hate? Do we have to go back to the Dooley years?
Bustle
Stiney
O'Cain
Loeffler
Corny?
I don't remember hate for Bustle but I wasn't following football as closely as I do today due to lack of coverage in the Midwest.
There really was no offense in the Dooley years. If we had an offense, we'd have really gone places, cause we had quite the D. We also had very little in the passing game, but that was probably by design with Dooley, as the QBs were more game-managers than anything. Could not tell you who the OC was, but considering how basic it was, it could have been Dooley himself.
At least in the Stiney and Loeffler years, we were bringing in and developing talent that could cover up or counteract the weaknesses in the coaching. (O'Cain wasn't OC, he just took over playcalling for a while.)
I started following VT football in what apparently was Stiney's first year as OC. I didn't notice any issues with the offense for most of his tenure because we had QBs like Randall, Vick2, and Tyrod. And I chalked up any of Glennon's deficiencies to him having the pocket presence of a cinderblock.
And an offensive line that pass blocked like turnstiles.
The biggest problem with Stiney was the offense was very vanilla/predictable, we didn't have a complex pass structure at all, and the OL recruiting/development fell off a cliff starting in the mid-late 2000s. We were trying to play power football with a Swiss cheese OL. Exceptional talent at the RB position covered up a lot of issues until after David Wilson left. But the need for a mobile QB to create yards and buy time was apparent after Glennon was swallowed whole by LSU's DL in 2007.
Beamer waited far too long to make a coaching change on the offensive side. Of course, when you're still winning 10+ games and going to BCS bowls it's hard to justify it, but many people could see the problems coming a mile away. When the talent dropped off after 2011, it was painfully obvious.
Loeffler wasn't a great replacement, but I do give him credit for modernizing our recruiting approach. Instead of grabbing TEs and converting them to OL, or recruiting athletes and moving them to receiver, we started actually recruiting the position which really helped. WR development was also excellent under Loeffler/Amo.
I think the biggest problem with the oline is that Steinspring was a good oline coach, and Newsome was not. Lots of those TEs to Tackle worked out in the long run, did well in the NFL, but didn't benifit VT. We had talent that just didn't mesh.
If he wins out this season and fire the OC at a min, I could live with him staying. He is a nice guy in person and the team is trying their best.
For the last 2 weeks, he has obviously starting being HC and OC during prep and it is showing on the field.
Now if he could only fix the time management and on field decision issues.
Hear me out . . . Let's hire Gary Patterson.
/s
I get that we are in position now to only make a G5 hire but a decade ago we were at least peers with MSU and now they are able to make a fantastic head coach hire in Mel Tucker with a bunch of P5 and NFL experience and we are stuck saying who can we take a risk on from G5.
Really. He was 5-7 in his lone P5 HC job. If a candidate like him were suggested today for the Hokie HC job social media would melt down.
Who cares about social media. Real life is MSU Dubs. Also yes only one stint as head coach but has a bunch of quality P5 wins as coordinator/position. Fuente has zero P5 experience besides VT. TCU was mountain west.
Ohmergerd a good P5 program might hire someone with no P5 HC experience, this has never happened before! How could a once proud program have literally every college football insiders top candidate for this coaching cycle as their top candidate too!? What are they thinking????
MSU had to sign a very favorable contract for Mel Tucker to get him to go there. And it was not a hire that was lauded at the time, there were serious questions about him and how far down they had to look to find a coach. Hindsight is 20/20, my dude.
Damn you weren't kidding about his contract. Huge buyout for MSU, very small for him if he leaves, major salary (top 15 in the nation), large assistant bank to spend.
Yup, that hire was made so late in the cycle they had to beg and plead to get anyone acceptable. Considering how critical everyone here is about the Fuente buyout, a Tucker type contract would not go down well. We're also early in the Tucker era so who knows what will happen, I think he's a good coach but you never know. Scuttlebutt is he'll make a SEC jump in a couple years.
Mel Tucker turned MSU down, then MSU came back with >$10m offer for tucker and his staff. We don't have that kind of money.
We better have that money if we want a new coach and think we should be a top 25 program. To reach the top 25 in HC coach we will need ~5 mil. Two top 50 coordinators are 800k each. So 6.6mil for 3 of the 10 coaches. 500k for ST, 350k for the other 6 and you're at 9.2 mil with under paid position coaches to say were 25th. (Wiles made 371k last year at NC State)
Just for context, UVA pays HC, OC and DC better than VT. They had 7 assistants make over 350k (including coordinators).
I agree. I think we'll see a pay bump for the new coach, but I don't think it will be MSU money. I'm guessing $5m for an HC, $750k-$800k per coordinator, $400ish for a special teams coordinator, and a bunch of position coaches between $175k and $250k.
For a lot of the names being bandied about 4 million a year would still be a huge raise. We don't need to go to 5 to start. That also leaves more money for being able to go to close to 1 mil each for the OC and DC.
True, but also need to look at what other schools in the mix are able to offer
CJ is right. Depends who we go for... Napier will have counter offers, so he can easily push it over $4M. If it's someone like Venables who has a good situation, he can name his price. If it's someone like Huff, who I don't think will offers from a school better than VT this year, we can probably pay around $4M (or less).
Oh I don't think we'll pay it. Well cheap out again. But if you're not ready to spend $9 mil on a coach staff then you're not ready for football. It's a realization that lots of people need to come to, VT either needs to shell out big boy money, or be happy with bottom 1/3 P5 coaching pay. I mean we let Wiles go 2 years ago and he found a job at a very similar institution making more than double. Our direct instate competitor is paying most of their position coaches double what we pay. There are positions coaches making more than what we pay out OC and DC combined.
We are going to get what we pay for.
Joe posted his list, which included:
1) Napier
2) Charles Huff
3) Byron Leftwich
One of those makes sense (Napier), one won't happen (Leftwich), and the other is a total ?? from me.
Joe, sell me on Huff because I see I guy with 1 year of HC experience and I'm not sold on the concept of bringing in a guy strictly for his ace recruiter status.
He has a great pedigree, and excels at recruiting (a weakness for VT). Born in MD, played college ball in Hampton VA, has coached all over the geography we recruit from (midatlantic and Appalachia), has been mentored by Franklin, Saban, and Fleck.
Not my first choice (at the moment), but I could dev get behind the Huff hire. I'd want to learn more about his scheme/philosophy.
Huff would basically be course-correcting everything that's gone wrong with Fuente. He not only has a great recruiting resume in general but is from the area and would probably instantly mend all the VA recruiting bridges Fuente has notably burned. He has the connections to bring in a dynamite coaching staff that actually knows what they're doing and what we need to do to get where we want to go.
I'm not sure the lack of HC experience is something to be taken lightly, but if he has a couple good years at Marshall he would instantly be a Fickell-level candidate that the blue bloods are eyeing, so it would basically be us trying to get our foot in the door before we're beneath him. If anyone was a fan of hiring Shane Beamer a year ago, Huff is basically Shane with a more impressive resume and less impressive last name. I think Napier could do a lot of these things too and is more proven but Huff would not disappoint me at all either.
Really well put - great summary.
I appreciate the insight (from both of you).
I just can't get behind a guy that's run a small program for one year, personally. But I understand the logic.
I have the same reservations. He would not be #3 on my list. But he's definitely in my top 10 of reasonable/obtainable candidates.
You need to start working those 1-900 adult telephone numbers with that kind of dirty talk.
Oof..I fat-fingered a 1-800 number the other day and the voice recording told me to "press 5 to talk to hot local women that are just waiting for single men like you (me) to call." On speakerphone, sitting next to my wife.... Who thankfully understood that I was driving and misdialed.
Back on topic- I frankly don't care if he has one year of head coaching experience. Everybody starts somewhere, and some people thrive in situations where everyone says "they aren't qualified for this". I know we wall want to win now, but hell, we've wasted 6 years on the CJF experiment (totally threw away the last 2), what's another 4 in the grand scheme of things? The man can recruit, and he probably wouldn't be a crazy expensive hire, leaving money for a solid staff. I don't think he'd be a terrible choice at this point in time.
Check back in 4 years (if he gets the keys).
Be honest. You thought she was asleep and you could get a quick 'friendly' call in to keep the drive interesting. /s
I'm not Joe but I'd like to throw in my take on this: Huff may turn out to be an outstanding P5 coach one day, but we should be leery about how we make this type of hire. I'm going to use a basketball analogy:
Hiring Huff just because it is a cheap option and we may get lucky and win the Coastal a couple times feels a lot like a James Johnson type of move.
Hiring Huff and really opening up the bank account to bring in proven assistants who have experience in major conference ball, and letting Huff lead the program sounds like what VT did when we hired Mike Young.
Is Huff my first choice? No but I wouldn't be opposed to it if we did it right. VT would have to fully commit the resources to the staff (from OC all the way to equipment managers) and even then there's no guarantees in college football.
For me Huff is the CEO-style coach you get on the (relative) cheap and let hire two outstanding (high paid) coordinators and go win a lot of football games. He was an ace recruiter, albeit at Alabama, but more importantly from that 'Bama experience he knows how important recruiting is and what the model is to run a successful program.
It certainly is a boom-bust proposition.
I mean, if he's a good recruiter but doesn't pan out as a coach, at least he won't be leaving the cupboard bare when he leaves.
Yeah.. That's the part that worries me about a lot of the names from those schools that we see thrown around. Is it the coach that's actively doing the recruiting, or is just the school name / program history?
This is my concern and why I want us to go the G5 coach route, not the P5 coordinator route. But what do I know 🤷♂️
I think this is his first class.
https://247sports.com/college/marshall/Season/2021-Football/Commits/
That would lean toward the Blue-bloods privilege.
Per that link, his first class had the highest average player rating in the history of the school.
NEW NAME TO CONSIDER
Throw my $.02 in here with a name I have not seen yet...Kurt Roper. Mentored under David Cutcliffe FOREVER. Worked under him at UT 96-98 while Peyton led them to a NAtty with Cut as OC. They both then moved to Ole Miss where he served as QB coach for Eli with HC Cutcliffe. '05 Cutcliffe was fired and Roper went to KY for a year as QB coach and when UT hired Cut back as OC Roper followed him there to coach RBs. In 08 they both moved to Duke and Roper became OC under HC Cutcliffe until he was hired by Muschamp for what turned out to be his final year at Florida. He spent a year as a consultant with the Browns before reuniting as OC with Muschamp at USCe for 2 years. He went to Colorado as the QB coach in 2018 and when Macintyre was fired with one game to play was named as Interim HC. He is currently back in the ACC with NC State as QB/RB coach. Here is a guy with phenomenal pedigree, mentored under Cutcliffe who has Beamer-level integrity while also experiencing SEC/P12/NFL/ACC top level coaching. Offense guy and under 50yo. Obviously knows the area for recruiting and played QB at Rice so probably not a Dummy. This is probably Cuts last year at Duke and they will for sure have Roper on their list but I would be very happy bringing in a guy with this kind of Resume.
I don't mean to be a dick, but...
This was literally one of the worst offenses I have ever seen. I'll keep Fuente over that.
Going through this thread, I think there's only one man for the job: Ted Fuckin' Lasso.
+1
Yes, yes, yes!!
what about curt cignetti? aside from being a wvu grad, he seems to have JMU rolling.
he has had several recruiting coordinator roles, including on saban's initial alabama staff. in the athletic article on virginia recruiting, VA coaches had pretty good things to say about their efforts.
eddie whitley is on staff, so maybe he comes along. his DC, Hetherman, seems to have a pretty good resume, and has VA ties...he was on ODU's staff in early 2010's.
seems like JMU consistently has a pretty good offense and defense.
anyone have any thoughts on him?
One school of thought is that the jump from G5 to P5 was too much for Fuente, despite his remarkable success at Memphis.
The jump from FCS to P5 is even larger, so it's reasonable to doubt that Cignetti could make it work.
Didn't JMU recently accept the invite to the Sunbelt Conference and are going to be transitioning to FBS? I'm sure there are enough challenges with that leap that CIgnetti might be content to stay at JMU and keep building there.
if we are going with a troll hire, might as well tap richrod. that 335 is enough to turn me off though
Take this as you will, but my old VT roommate/good friend's dad is very connected to a big donor at VT who is very close to Babcock apparently, said Fuente will be coach next year per Babcock's vision.
Again, I know its a line of people, so take it for how you will, just the messenger over here. If true, hopefully Fuente will at least grow a pair and fire Corny.
Now of course, a lot can still change from now until December. A lot of things can change if team goes 0-4 or 1-3.
I know you're just the messenger but this comment may set off a firestorm
Is Babcock's vision a dumpster fire?
What the ever loving fuck could his vision possibly be?
Driving the VT Athletic Department into the ground!?
Whit needs to fire Fuente or Whit needs to find a new gig.
After last year, nothing will completely surprise me. But I can't imagine a world where Fuente AND Cornelson are here next year AND Whit is sane/smart
I will say with absolute certainty that if Fuente is retained again, I will be completely checked out of VT athletics. It's gotten to that point. Ended season tickets in 2019, ended Hokie Club after last year, and supporting VT athletics altogether will be done for me unless we make a change. Didn't watch the GT game at all Saturday and had a great afternoon. Other things are becoming more enjoyable that wasting 3.5 hrs on VT football.
Another dollar for the virtual TKP Fuente buyout jar.
I hope you have a big ass jar. Because if this shit has legs she's gonna be overflowing.
At an absolute minimum Corn and Jafar need to be shitcanned and replaced with major upgrades. However, I think that time has passed a couple years ago.
I don't think any amount of empirical data will cause Fuente to do this. They are on this ride together. Either going down with the ship or taking it for another cruise around the bay.
Win out or he must be gone. Period!!
This prediction is worse than when I said Kam wouldn't play a down in the NFL
I could see the situation where Corn is demoted but retained and an actual OC is brought in and Fu stays. This is the assumption that he wins out, goes 8-4, gets a bowl game and finally is willing to sacrifice Corn to get another year.
This isn't a prediction by me, just that I could see it being a real scenario
I think that horse has left the barn last year.
If Fuente is head coach any longer than December 16th at noon, there might be actual riots.... If Fuente is coach longer than Thanksgiving, I think we get screwed in the coaching search....
The Athletics Andy Staples just posted a "coaching search" article that describes VT as a program unwilling to spend at the level of comparable schools like UNC and should try a small school coach used to doing more with less.
Related note, if Fuente isn't fired right after the UVA game y'all need to emotionally prepare for him to stay in 2022. The "wait til the buyout drops to save a couple bucks" crowd completely disregard how many of the good coaches will be signed by then.
I'd discuss putting him on admin leave right now to give some incentive for an Orgeron-style exit
I support this. Fuente benches running backs after one fumble. Seems only fair to bench Fuente for destroying the VT football program
Now this take I can get behind!
His lawyer would have a field day with this. You're basically firing him without actually firing him. Unless you retained him after the administrative leave, he has grounds to collect the entire buyout and you didn't accomplish anything that firing him would have done.
Well, you need to get to work finding away out of this. We want a new coach, and we want to keep our $2.5 million.
Otherwise, we need you helping when we write the next coaching contract, because we seem to lose at every turn on this thing.
If his presence is determined to be detrimental to the continued development or the future of the program, it would easily justified. It could be linked to recruiting, player retention, etc. Maybe they just want to see what JHam can do. Nothing is inappropriate with any of that.
Since there is no net financial penalty to Fu, Fu would have to show that it is designed to damage him in his career and that it is somehow worse than firing him on December 16. I think that would be be a really hard sell. All the parties agreed to the timelines in the contract; Fu gets his salary thru Dec 15, then gets his buyout. And perhaps it would spur a mutual meeting of the minds to everyone's benefit sooner than later.
All the stuff you mention is performance based. There's no "for cause." As much as losing sucks, it's not a cause to fire and not have to pay the buyout. He'd have to hit a player, have recruiting violations, maybe hire hookers with University money, or something like that.
Buyouts can suck, but contracts usually work to protect both the coach and university. There's different clauses designed to protect each party. When a coach starts doing well, generally, the clauses tend to favor the coach more, because they have more leverage - other schools want to hire them for more money. So AD's have to make a decision , do you give the coach a better contract or not? If you don't, coaches may very well choose to leave, then you have to find a new coach, and since there are not a lot of coaches who are really successful, the odds of the replacement being mediocre or bad are higher than the known commodity.
We may feel screwed in this deal, but I'm not sure there isn't an AD in the country who wouldn't have done the same thing. There are some coaches that can ride the success of previous coaches then flame out, but it's gotta be really rare for a new coach to take a program that was winning 7 games to winning 10 and going to the conference championship and playing the eventual national champions way better than the perennial powerhouse Ohio State did (in the first year he got here), then flaming out. If the coach is going to be average to bad, they generally aren't going to be able to take a school that wasn't already winning 10 games before they got there to that level. Like I've said before, I don't think you can luck your way into winning 10 games and playing a really competitive game against the national champs. I think Fuente and Cornelson CAN win, they just have no idea how to recreate the pieces to get them there - they just lucked their way into having the right pieces when they got here, we'll, and the addition of Evans.
I agree.
But to be clear, I'm not proposing to avoid the buyout or any terms of his contract. I'm proposing a means of taking him off the field prior to being dismissed and that in doing so, it might facilitate a settlement beneficial to both parties. While there are some circumstances where Admin Leave with pay can be considered punitive, in many circumstances, it is not. I've done it (albeit briefly) and I've seen it done several times, even under civil service sideboards.
Per the current contract, VT can: (1) retain him; (2) fire him now and pay him $10 million; (3) fire him after December 15 and pay him $7.5 M. My perception is that VT would like to be done with it now but intend to do (3) in order to save $2.5 million; and with any luck find a solution the works for both parties sooner than that. Unless Fu intends to retire from coaching, it is better to resign than be fired. And if Fu is not going to be the coach next year, VT is better off with him not involved sooner so they can focus on recruiting and player retention. From both perspectives, the more time there is to explore their next steps, the better.
While we disagree on legality (you said it is the same as being fired, hence it is really #2; I think the termination and subsequent job advertisement dates are what counts), I don't think there is anything Fu could do stop it... especially after surrendering while the BC outcome was still in at least a little doubt.
I think there are two main reasons why Fuente won't be fired before the end of the uva game.
1.) To the best of my knowledge, Whit has never fired a coach midseason.
2.) We likely don't have a good option for an interim.
I don't see how anyone currently on the staff could do worse as interim. It took Fu six years to get more involved with the offense, so the coordinators would still be doing their thing. Just need someone to make in-game decisions and the like. But your first point is true. Also, VT hasn't fired a football coach since the 70s, so we are definitely in very unfamiliar territory for everyone.
don't know if he would do it but Tenuta has done it before.
I think $$$ is the only thing stopping it now.
I'm not sold on that theory.
I feel like Whit was ready to pull the trigger last year, but something changed at the last minute. So whether he fired him after last year's uva game or this year's, he's still paying out $10M.
I think a combination of the impacts of Covid on the season, beating UVA, and not being able to sign their top replacement target made $10M too much to pay...and I don't think they are going to pay $10M this time around either, especially if they have to pay an additional buyout to get a replacement.
VT has a long history of trying to get by on the cheap. Even if they increase the budget for staff and additional support (as promised for several years, but not yet delivered), at least those are tangible things. Dead money on the other hand is about as distasteful as it gets (remember the basketball dead money, and remember they couldn't afford their top target for DC) and I think VT will minimize it, even if it hinders recruiting this year.
The "good coaches will all be signed by december" crowd is incapable of understanding that coaches (1) often agree to jobs before the hire is announced and (2) are quite willing to leave a job for a better one, even if they've only been at the first job for under a week.
You are mischaracterizing Andy Staple's comments - we are not 'unwilling' to spend, but unable to:
Anyways, the point of the piece is that VT currently does not have the infrastructure to implement a Saban-esk recruiting apparatus, so it makes more sense for VT to hire an innovative coach who can do more with less. Andy specifically recommends Jamey Chadwell (who I would be very happy with, provided there were some P5 position coaches and recruiters on staff).
And someone competent would have us competing for the Coastal every year again and in the ACCCG. It doesn't take much with the talent we can recruit vs some of the other ACC coastal schools. Give us someone who can win on the field with Xs and Os. The Jimmies and the Joes will follow the Ws. It is easier to recruit when you can win.
1000% - Don't interpret my comment as being in support of Fuente. I'm just saying that VT may not appeal to someone who has relied on an elaborate recruiting apparatus for the bulk of his career.
There's a middle ground here - put together a staff that can recruit at a top 25-35 level, and have us playing at a top 20-25 level. That's quite manageable.
To me, it seems like we're not asking for too much.
Money the thing many many Holies fans refuse to accept us an issue.
Tech will have no trouble finding another loser to take Fuente's job. The real trick will be finding a winner for the job.
Profound
OK, I have a crazy idea to consider.
Nah, it was too crazy.
I get your point, but we don't need to think outside the box too much. It has to be established and accepted that we cannot spend like the blue bloods. We have to get a coach that will be consistent enough to win and help build the program. Win and get interest so we can get more $$ coming in before we can take the next leap. Fuente was the mold for that, he just failed. Need to find the next guy now and see if he can do it.
Yeah, I agree.
Time to move on.
our next coach should know that we'll give him at least 6-years to sort things out. We ain't the Longhorns.
Herman, Mullen, or Napier would make me optimistic
As long as Mullen doesn't bring Grantham
He would have to hire him again since he just fired him.
I looked up his salary and its probably too high already for what we are looking for but a name that I haven't heard at all that I would love and is semi-realistic competitively is Jeff Brohm
Because his salary and perks mean he isn't leaving Purdue except for the top blue bloods.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/purdue/2021/08/30/purdue-f...
His prospects in the long term are likely higher at Virginia Tech, so that might be enticing, but his salary is higher than Fuente's, and his current buyout is $19 million.
His stock went up a little yesterday.
Jeff Brohm turned down his alma mater in Louisville to stay at Purdue. Purdue isn't lighting the world on fire, but if he didn't leave for them, a job he reportedly wanted, I don't know that he'd leave for us either. I do wish we had that Spoilermaker magic against top teams though.
I woke up this morning and decided that our next HC will be one of the following: Huff, Napier, Elko, Freeman, or Pry; or perhaps someone else. I know a lot of you were waiting on that.
this short list needs to be on Whit's desk ASAP
Let's cut this list to Huff, Napier, and Pry. I have no interest in Elko or Freeman. Freeman and Elko don't have enough experience at the P5 level for a first time head coach.
I have heard some ND friends who follow the program closely say they would love for Freeman to succeed Kelly there. He doesn't have the HC experience which is the risk, but he would be a very high ceiling hire. Not sure we would go in that direction without some HC experience. TBH, if Huff had a couple more years of HC experience, I would have him as my clear number 1 over Napier. I think that ultimately will be a huge factor for Whit.
I recently watched a little of UL-Lafayette to see a bit of Napier's offense, as I admittedly haven't been able to watch them much. From my initial impressions, I like what I see. Very aggressive downfield passing attack, they attack every part of the field. Receivers seem to run hard and pretty crisp routes, and I noted the QB scanning downfield and climbing up in the pocket to avoid pressure. Seems like a much better passing attack than we are used to seeing. He does feature jet motion a good bit but mostly as a decoy. Pretty heavy inside/outside zone read running attack. Napier is probably my #1 choice right now after seeing the product on the field a bit more, and I think he would definitely want to focus heavily on recruiting.
Right now (and I reserve the right to change my mind), my choice is Charlie Huff.
If he wins his conference this year (a huge if given how good UTSA is this year), he's a slam dunk candidate.
He's got the recruiting ties, pedigree, offensive background and the right temperament to coach today's players. I hate bringing race into it but I think it's a big pull to have an AA coach. Recruits are going to be drawn to play for Huff and are going to want to help him become the first AA coach to win a national championship. James Franklin has played that card over and over again on the recruiting trail to his benefit.
I get a lot of people like Napier and would probably be just as happy to bring him instead of Huff.
Huff, Tom Herman or Napier
Scuttlebutt I am hearing is Chadwell on Dec 16th is a done deal. I know there are people better connected than I am on here, so surprised I haven't seen his name all that much, but I trust my source.
If it proves true I am happy with the hire, but I was very happy with Fuente at the time. I think Chadwell has a much more proven offensive system than Fuente and look forward to that.
Should be a big salary upgrade for Chadwell, I wonder if he keeps some of the defensive staff in place or he brings in his own guys.
IF this is true, I'm honestly a bit worried. Seems similar to the Fuente hire. A coach who elevated a G5 team with a good college QB. My questions about Chadwell are:
Can he recruit at the P5 level? Is he willing to put in the time to cultivate relationships in VA?
Can he develop QBs or did he get lucky by finding Grayson McCall? (Like it appears Fuente got lucky finding Paxton Lynch)
Do we know how he builds a staff? Is his staff at Coastal Carolina all "his guys"?
My surface level understanding gives me the impression that his offensive scheme is better than Fuente's.
Not really saying a lot.
Oh totally agree. But I'd at least feel confident that they understand how to establish a run game and can do some vertical passing.
TBF there's a reason we were excited about Fuente initially. Snagging an up and coming G5 coach is a good realistic move for most non-blue blood P5 schools. It's hit or miss whether they'll actually be successful. We just missed with Fuente because that's how it goes sometimes. Just like sometimes the 5* recruits bust too, that's just how it goes. Let's just not give him an extension too early this time.
Nailed it.
Was a good decision at the time, but it didn't pan out.
100%
You don't eliminate an entire pool of candidate types because Fuente didn't work out.
You don't eliminate them summarily, but I think VT really needs to get someone with big program experience. VT football has spent the last 34 years under Beamer who built the program from scratch and Fuente with only mid-major/G5 experience. If we want to elevate our program from challenger to championship brand, I would want to get someone with some championship program experience and fresh ideas on how to recruit and run a program of that caliber.
Just my own thoughts, but I don't know if this is the right approach.
I think VT has to take a moneyball approach to this and do something differently than the competition. Going the G5 route seems a better way to find this level of thinking instead of a big time program guy trying to get us to emulate that system.
Right, you can't just hire an Alabama guy and ask him to recreate Alabama in Blacksburg. We simply don't have the resources.
And that's my hesitation on Napier; that is precisely what he wants to do. It works at UL because he is competing with other UL's. But we're competing with Clemson, who is essentially Bama.
I think Chadwell should still be considered, but I am definitely worried.
The questions I listed are the areas that I think Fuente has failed and have caused the biggest problems while he's been here. Recruiting has been awful, QB development has been non existent, and he's too loyal to "his guys" that he brought from Memphis to a fault.
If those concerns can be assuaged for Chadwell then I won't be as worried. But, I'm seeing enough similarities that other G5 HCs don't have that it makes me pause.
Agreed 100%, just because Fuente didn't work out doesn't mean hiring him was a bad decision. Let's not overcorrect trying to avoid repeating our "mistake" and end up making a completely different mistake.
The fact is whoever we hire may or may not work out. The key is for Whit to follow a defined process and ask all the important questions before making a decision. The concerns about P5 and recruiting experience are very good questions, and are arguably what burned us with Fuente. I think we just can't focus on coaches who aren't "like Fuente" or we could miss out on a winner.
1) System: Couldn't Chadwell hire someone from a Top SEC program to bring that infrastructure knowledge?
2) Experience: Fu had 3 years as a HC, only at Memphis. Chadwell has 10 yrs HC experience at 4 different schools, with a 87-53 record, that improved yearly at each. Wiki Jamey Chadwell
3) Affordable: His base salary is $850k/yr, contract ending June 30, 2023 (updated?)
4) Local: Age 42, grew up on a farm 30mi N of Knoxville. Possibly the next Beamer.
5) Offense: QB East Tennessee State 1995-99. His Offensive scheme has been described as an Air Force style pistol spread triple-option. Louisiana coach Billy Napier called it "similar to Air Force's" and "very unique". Balanced 2020 season had 238ypg passing and 203 ypg rushing. 2020 CCU Offensive Breakdown
6) Can Chadwell recruit? Apparently his players love him. Coastal's 2022 recruiting class is ranked 64th in the country by 247Sports and 66th by Rivals.com. CCU football recruiting ranks ahead of Nebraska, Texas Tech, other Power 5s Read more at: https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/sun-belt/coastal-carolina-university/article254286808.html#storylink=cpy
7) BTW, How variable is recruiting? Teams that recruit well tend to be the teams that always recruit well, the SEC dominates recruiting (shock), lolUVA's four-year percentile recuiting average was among the most improved from 2018 to 2019 (+9.7), and amongst the worst: Louisville (-23.5), Maryland (-16.3), Miami (-10.1)
Do not want Chadwell at all. See him as Fuente 2.0. He runs his own unique system and will likely bring all of his current coaches. No big program experience and would likely really struggle with recruiting. My top two realistic candidates at this point are Napier and Huff. Napier seems like the best option, Huff lacks a ton of HC experience so far but is an ace recruiter in our region and has big experience at Penn State and Bama. No thanks to Chadwell, I think that is Fuente all over again.
this would not excite me
but I'd give him a solid 3 years to show signs of improvement before dusting off my pitchfork
If he is the hire and he starts announcing that he is bringing most all of his Coastal Carolina guys to join him, I would say major red flag. We don't have the time to let a whole staff of G5 coaches learn on the job again. If it is Chadwell, there better be clear expectations for assistants laid out, an emphasis on building regional relationships in recruiting, and some significant leverage for VT with regards to the buyout so we can cut ties after 3-4 years if need to. All together this would be really disappointing.
who, that we could realistically get, would excite you?
first of all, exciting me should hardly be a requirement for hiring the next head coach. I expect the next coach to be hired after a rigorous interview process where, hopefully, Whit susses out some key qualities and visions from the candidate(s).
I won't name specific individuals because, without the opportunity to interview them myself, there's no way I can know whether they'd be an exciting hire. But I can share some qualities that I think will be important for the next head coach.
I want a guy who has a vision for the program. A vision that he can articulate and sell. A vision that gets the donors, fans, and, perhaps most importantly, recruits excited about the direction and future of the program. I want a guy who is willing and able to engage the VT community and fans. I want a guy who doesn't make excuses for past failures but can demonstrate that he recognizes his mistakes and has learned from them. I want a guy who has played the game and understands the fundamentals but has no ego about being the smartest guy in the room. I want a guy who can surround himself with great recruiters, coaches and teachers who all buy into and can sell the coach's vision for the program.
I would be excited by a candidate who has P5 experience and a great track record on the recruiting trail. Preferably a guy who has been an integral member of a top notch coaching staff at some point in his career. I would be excited by a coach who has connections to, and relationships with, some of the best coaches in the country.
That's not to say that I won't support the next coach if he's not exciting to me. Or that I don't think the next coach will be successful if he's not exciting to me. I'm also fully aware that it is possible to find someone who is a bit of a diamond in the rough, so to speak. That's why I am willing to allow 3-5 years for the next coach, whoever it is, to demonstrate that he is capable of improving the product on the field. A coach who can show progress year over year is going to be a huge upgrade from what we have now. So even if it's not a coach who is super exciting at the time of hire, if they can show steady progress that is a big positive to me.
This is very well stated.
For me it's Napier, Hafley, and Clawson that would excite me. Chadwell is fine, I'll give him time but definitely not topping my list.
Sounds like it could be Fuente 2.0. I am not sure how excited I am for this. I guess it will depend on how he builds his staff.
Looking at his wiki page, he never played or coached at a P5 program (even as a position coach). That gives me great pause.
I would love Chadwell. His system is innovative and fun to watch. He has a history of doing more with less (FWIW, the advanced analytics say he's done a lot more with less than Fuente did). He's from a part of the country that is important to VT, and he'd be a great culture fit. Very Mike-Young-esk.
The question is how does he round out his staff: Does he bring his whole Coastal staff here, or does he bring in some established recruiters?
I understand where you're coming from but I kind of take the opposite approach. I would like for VT to get away from a "system" approach on offense and defense. It's true we had one of the best DCs ever run a very unique system for a long time with a ton of success. But good players can thrive in any system. If we start getting a system that is unique to one coach, it limits our assistant pool and who we can bring in on that side of the ball. I don't want another circumstance where we have a HC keeping on a ton of underperforming buddies because they're the only ones who know the system and he can trust.
I think we approach this from an angle of getting a good CEO minded head coach who prioritizes recruiting talent and can bring in assistants who can coach that talent in whatever system. If we have an OC who is really successful and leaves after a few years, we can bring in another quality OC who has talent to work with. I don't want to box ourselves in to a coach with no demonstrated P5 coaching experience who is tied to a particular system.
Counterpoints:
My major concern with Chadwell is recruiting. He is completely unproven here, which is why I think his staff will be so important.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but Andy Staples at The Athletic was suggesting Chadwell for our HC based on success at each stop of various levels among a few other things.
Ugh. No offense, but I hope you're dead wrong. At the very least if it is the hire, we better be surrounding him with a staff full of P5 experience and recruiting. Like the kind of talent where if they do a good job, schools are looking to poach them after 2 years. Otherwise, Whit has learned absolutely nothing from the Fuente experience.
And I know its gonna happen because I've seen people bring it up in other places; No, this is not a Mike Young type hire for a couple of reasons. For one, basketball is not football. The core elements of knowledge if you know what you're doing translates across levels for basketball better than it does football. Mike Young was a veteran coach that had been around a long time. The criticisms at the time weren't could Mike Young coach basketball. He was smart and respected. The criticisms were did he have enough knowledge about recruiting/AAU to succeed at the P5 level. He and the school addressed that with a great support staff to make up for any lingering questions. But Chadwell is not a coach that's been around a long time. There's way more questions around him. The two situations aren't comparable. The only thing they have in common is "this coach came from a small school most people haven't heard of".
Chadwell could work out. But you're going in more blind with him than you would be with other candidates that we realistically could get. After Fuente, the next hire needs to have as few unknowns as possible.
They're also both from Appalachia, and both are/were known for running a pretty innovative scheme.
CMY was definitely respected, but in 20ish years at Wofford, he only had one tournament win. There were a lot of people who weren't jazzed about the hire.
This is a very reasonable concern.
If you want to limit unknowns, go for Napier, Clawson or (maybe) Huff. All would be great hires, but we will have competition for each of them.
Hiring a P5 coordinator (Elliott, Pry, etc) does nothing to eliminate unknowns - I'd argue that these guys have more unknowns because of (1) their lack of head coaching experience and (2) (in some cases) no evidence that they can recruit at a school with a lesser level of recruiting infrastructure.
I really hope it's not Chadwell. I do NOT like the triple option. It might be effective, just like GTs stupid offense could be effective, I just don't want to watch us running that stuff. Much rather see something else.
lol
I know the name, know that the program is on the rise and yet somehow TIL he runs the triple option.
Keep that bullshit HS offense out of Blacksburg, I want *nothing* to do with that nonsense.
Just to be clear, it's not quite that. He doesn't run a GT style, ball is only ever run, triple option. It's described as a spread-option where it incorporates the spread passing game and triple option looks in the running game. I think last year their yards were roughly split between rushing and passing.
Interesting, that makes me feel a little better - I'll have to go watch some of their games.
I think I'm generally anti unique systems as it creates a lower ceiling type situation, but knowing that it isn't 100% Paul Johnson BS is easier to swallow.
Me reading this comment:
CHADWELL 👏 DOES 👏 NOT 👏 RUN 👏 THE 👏 TRIPLE 👏 OPTION👏 - it's an RPO offense based on fundamentals of the triple option. Their QB has thrown for >2000 yards at >13 yards/attempt and completes 73% of his passes through 8 games this season. Does that look like the stat line of a triple option QB?
Edit b/c I'm so triggered by this comment:
I'm not saying Jamey Chadwell is the best candidate for VT. I'm not saying he would definitely be successful at VT. But if Chadwell came to VT, VT would easily be one of the most fun teams to watch in CFB.
Would be interesting to see this offense if we still have such a large running back room.
Also, at least his OCs have more than one year of experience as a D1 coordinator, unlike Corny coming here.
(Bonus: Co-OC Willy Korn was Dabo's first starting QB at Clemson)
Wait, wait, wait
are you telling me that we might be firing Corn and hiring a Korn to replace him? Seriously?
you can't make that kinda shit up
Best case scenario if we hire Chadwell, it all works out. Worst case, at least we still can gripe about Corn/Korn.
thanks for sharing...both of those offenses looked better than ours...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Heard it's Chadwell too.
Obviously it's grapevine RUMINT at this point but it makes sense given all the national level buzz has been about Napier.
Could be good. Certainly an interesting move. End of the day though it doesn't matter what flavor offense he runs, if he doesn't have athletes that make plays, win matchups, stay healthy, and have depth behind them. Without all these things it will just be more of the same.
Could be good but pretty disappointing on the surface. Chadwell seems too much like Fuente 2.0 for me to get excited. If he's onboard with bringing on a really good staff it could be better, but he probably doesn't have the coaching roladex to do that. I can see almost all of his Coastal staff coming if he's the hire. Would not make me very enthusiastic.
Agree in that I would think a Chadwell-type hire begs for major investments in top-flight assistants and program management. I just can't tell whether Chadwell can recruit and sell a vision for the program or not. I haven't seen enough data points. You could make similar arguments against Napier too though I suspect.
I think a competent recruiter could bring in classes ranked between 20 and 30 to VT. Fuente has shown that he is NOT a competent recruiter, so I think the lesson there is that we need competency in that area.
I would argue that we don't want to chase excellence in that area in exchange for development or tactics. So much of recruiting is the logo and not the coach, so I worry about focusing so much on that aspect of the job that we lose out on the rest. I also believe that VT has a natural recruiting "cap" of around top 15. I do not believe that anyone could consistently pull better than top 20 classes to VT. There might be an outlier year here and there of course, but I don't think we should focus on chasing what is likely unattainable.
Give me classes in the top 25, with 1/4 in the top 20, and I will be very happy. Those classes, paired with tactical and developmental excellence will have us averaging 10 wins a year, with a chance at an ACC championship in most. Chadwell sounds like a candidate who fits this vision.
If the NCAA changes the time limits on practice and player contact then a focus on innovating player development at the expense of concessions elsewhere could offer asymmetric advantages... Maybe... And only until other schools adapt... Until then it's squeezing blood from a stone, especially without the legitimate threat of being overtaken on the depth chart.
If VT can consistently crack the top 20 in recruiting (ideally by reducing the gap in average player rating) you'll start to see positive changes wrt VT's level of competitiveness against schools that win championships and play in marquee games. And you'll start to see games against schools like Liberty and ODU be the paid scrimmages and schedule fillers they're intended to be. The Hokies will also be a heck of a lot more fun to watch.
I have to believe a major focus of the next coach will be on improving the perception of the program and recruiting (which includes players, fans, and donors) is the crux of that objective. Player development and what people traditionally think of as "coaching" is what coordinators and assistants spend more of their time doing than the head coach (who is much more akin to an executive level politician than someone's ol' ball coach).
EDIT: Put more simply, we need player development competency (wrt
VTpeer standards) and innovation in recruiting (wrtVTpeer standards). If you want a "player development" program it's Wake Forest. That's not really what I'm hoping for from the next HC.This is literally the most important thing to me. I'm tired of losing, yes, but even when we win it's not fun to watch. I want to look forward to watching Tech football again. I want to have fun watching games, even if we come up short. Most of our games the last few years have been excruciating to watch, especially if you aren't a fan of either team.
Boring ugly football games hurt the Hokie brand. I think that's hurt our recruiting a lot. You can only sell a high octane offense to recruits if you can actually deliver some offense (and we aren't). I think airing our dirty laundry on Twitter is bullshit, but I can't say I wouldn't feel the same as Turner's mom if my kid was playing at VT right now.
Exactly! People watch football to see great athletes make exciting plays in dramatic situations. Very few watch to see how well a fifth year senior has developed his slide blocking technique and stays disciplined on flex plays or to see Coach Bubble-Yum run the latest flavor of candy-apple-wasabi spread from the shotgun.
It's entertainment FFS.
TCU is already on the horse. Hopefully, Whit's isn't still stuck in the stables. Napier and Elliott have supposedly already interviewed with TCU. Things could be setting up nicely for a backroom meeting on 11/20 when ULL is @Liberty. We're on the road @Miami which would leave Whit a choice to travel or stay home and make the short drive to meet f2f with BN.
https://www.frogsowar.com/2021/11/8/22761538/tcu-coaching-rumor-mill-leader-s-in-the-clubhouse
Get the point but if Whit is making decisions on who and when to interview based on the easiest drive... We're really screwed.
Agreed. If this is how we are making big decisions, 1) wow and 2) just drive over to Lynchburg and lock up Freeze. /s sort of
The easiest drive wasn't the point. That's just a convenience to the given situation. He just happens to be close by within the time frame in which we are likely pursuing possible candidates. And traveling as in with the team to Miami, not to interview candidates...
Lol the one guy is really high on where TCU sits.
Of that list I think Dykes is about where TCU sits probably Elliot would be in the same crowd. I don't see Napier as a landing spot there and I would imagine we would have a better list of interviewees.
LOL, yea, TCU isn't nearly the "powerhouse" the author is thinking they are. The silverbacks of the CFB coaching world from the Bama's, Clemson's, etc aren't having their agents make this call. Hopefully they can get Dykes on board. SMU just offered him an extension and he's yet to answer it.
I'm not so sure our list is going to be THAT much better. Ie, Dykes, Napier, Elliott, Chadwell, Huff... I certainly hope it will be, but our preferred candidate depth chart is essentially the same as TCU right now. Unless there's a big name somewhere out there that we're unaware of that holds the VT job near and dear... I do think our path to national success is much clearer than that of TCU's. Our division is ripe for the picking and honestly, so is the ACC as a whole.
Of that top four listed in the TCU article:
Napier - probably who they want, will have to beat us
Dykes - who they probably end up with
Campbell - reach
Elliott - safety
I also think if we are pursuing Napier that he would prefer us over TCU for several reasons. Napier and Huff are my 1 and 2 of candidates I think Whit would realistically consider. Chadwell doesn't have the recruiting and big program experience that I think we need.
Yea, Matt Campbell is definitely 'wishful thinking' for TCU and I highly doubt he is actually a legitimate candidate there.
I think at this point, Napier would be the one that would create the most positive buzz with the fanbase as a whole. Huff would excite those who closely follow CFB and those on here (mostly). Chadwell, I agree, he does not excite me much at all. He may be a good coach but, I agree, lacks big boy football experience.
Interesting side note, there's a familiar face to VT on Napier's staff... Galen Scott, who very likely could have been our DC right now had the other 'transgressions' and dismissal not taken place. I'd have to wonder if Whit would allow him back. (Not that it would or wouldn't be a qualifying factor)
If VT hires Napier, I don't know that any of his assistants would come with him. Galen is out of bounds. Toney (DC), Leger (co-OC), and Desormeaux (co-OC) are locals. So maybe some of the lower level guys (do we really want lower level G5 coaches)? But I think he'd probably be looking for mostly a whole new staff.
I'd think Huff would bring Cramsey, Trickett, and maybe some others.
I don't see Napier there either despite that rumor in an above comment that he interviewed. Based on just about every report about him, he wants an SEC job like LSU/Florida or if those don't work out, he'd be interested in a large conference school that will give him free reign and resources to build a program. TCU is Big12, but Big12 is on life support. I'd think he'd look at Big10 and ACC schools before going to TCU
My take is Napier goes to LSU.
My hunch is that Whit is Keeping Fuente next year, if so they need to do a Scott Frost type thing and lower Fu's salary. In Addition, fire Corn and Jafar and get us a better OC.
If Fu is in fact fired, Bill O'Brien would be my most favored candidate
Sounds to me like LSU's AD wants to make a splash, and Napier isn't a big enough cannonball.
I think they go after Mel Tucker, and make him say no.
I hope your hunch is wrong, and I'm high on BOB. I think he's the perfect guy to right a sinking ship.
What kind of salary would BOB need? Can we afford to get him, pay the buyout and also pay a decent staff? These constraints that we have dealt with the last 10 years have not gone away...
No clue!
I'm guessing he's lost some shine after his disastrous stint in the NFL, and I've seen very little of his name pop up for any openings.
It could be a really stupid idea, but he's a guy that rebuilt PSU from a much worse situation than VT, so I kind of like the thought of it.
Agree with everything HammerTime said. Some connected people are hinting that LSU is ready to pay Lincoln Riley $10m/year. Napier is LSU's safety candidate.
I would take a long look at Mike Houston. Probably only a fallback option but could be a huge steal if it came to it.
He took over a program that was left for dead after Scottie Montgomery, and a group of guys who who had never won more than 4 games in a season. Now in year 3 (right after covid year) the team is on track to get a bowl and could easily be 8-1.
It's striking for those close to the program how much bigger, stronger and more developed the players are becoming. Redshirt Freshmen and sophomores are passing seniors on the depth chart. The defensive culture is incredible and the team looks like a unit more than any other in the league save maybe Cincinnati.
Just seems like the antithesis of what we're hearing about the Fuente era. Would love to see us get back to the player development and defensive culture of the 2000's and be big and mean again for a change
I don't hate this as much as i want to (cant help it, its jmu and ecu), but would prefer maybe one/two more years of him showing proof of concept before hitching my wagon there
Think of it as stealing a good coach from ECU right as they're turning it around lol. I agree as well if he had one more year there it would be a slam dunk imo
Can we start a new thread?
Gotta have more space for us to repost all the same old grievances. /s
Part 2: Lovin' on Billy Napier?
I don't know, can we?
Closed because like 800 comments and new thread made.