Throw in the towel on this season, fire Fuente, promote JHam to interim and officially begin looking for a new coaching staff, external only.
We are close to the point of no return for fan relations within the program. We keep this staff around, you're going to lose more in total donations and fan engagement than the $2.5m it will cost to fire Fuente today rather than December. Salvaging that relationship needs to be priority #1 right now and the best way to do that is to fire Fuente and Cornelson today.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Best case scenario is that we have already reached out to Napier or another head coaching candidate and the gears are already turning for us to get the next coach ramped up. To do this, we need to announce that we will be having a new head coach after this season.
To do that, we need to remove the current coach and have a coach in place so that the newly-hired coach, presumably currently at another school, can take his own time to work through the rest of the season. The obvious candidate for this is JHam.
In the event that we (1) absolutely need to get rid of Fuente today and (2) we don't have another head coach already lined up, then we may end up with JHam getting the interim tag for the rest of this year and possibly next year if we can't secure a preferred candidate.
So I agree with Alum, Fuente is out, JHam is the new head coach. He will preferably be keeping the seat warm for the next guy unless he launches us to greatness a la Dabo Swinney.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
JHam as interim coach is just horrible and a disservice to him.
He's a talented but unproven DC. It's his second year and I think he's done a lot with a little and can really grow,...as a DC. He needs to be left in that capacity to develop. Moving him to HC could really hurt his development for this year and his future opportunities if he's not retained in the same capacity here, (DC).
Does anyone honestly think JHam gets another P5 DC shot if he's moved to HC of a team not likely to get another win this season?
If he stays at DC and we lose out with another interim but he puts together some good showings he can at least build up his resume.
He's had some rough games this season but he's got a shallow cupboard. On the flip side he's put together some decent schemes and halftime adjustments. We're way better this year than last and I would expect that trend to continue.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I agree and don't see Whit making a move with Fuente prior to December. This isn't just due to the reduction in buyout, but because there isn't someone on staff that could take over. That alone says a lot about where things stand. A key responsibility of a good leader is to grow those to take their place.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Also, I think it's much less likely that he stays as DC if he's promoted to Interim Head Coach for the remainder of the season. It's not good to keep a former HC on the roster on a lower-level position. Making JHam interim HC would all but ensure he's not at VT going forward.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
So you want a guy whose Defense choked away two leads in three weeks to run the show? He can't even run a defense....unfortunately we're stuck with this mess for the rest of the season, simply because there's no one on staff who is capable of replacing Fuente, which in itself should be an indictment.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I just want to interject that maybe the DC ever had a few pretty bad years coaching for CJF. Maybe CJF is making some of the conservative defensive calls that cost us games.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I would be surprised if the head coach is not involved in discussions with the coordinators during the game about how play the next series. Otherwise, what is he doing?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
So, you don't think the head coach has any input at all during the game. I'll ask again. What is he doing during the game? If he's not involved in the flow of the game, I really don't know what he is doing.
Also, I think it's reasonable to assume Corn has more leeway than either Bud Foster or JHam have, just because CJF is more familiar with Corn. And in JHam's case, he is very new as a coordinator.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Man....that take is worse than one believing that Corn is a competent P5 OC.
Fuente is trying to be a hands off, non-micromanaging, CEO-type head coach, almost to a fault, because he probably needs to get a bit more hands on with the offense. But he's not getting more involved there. So, what in the world makes you think he's micromanaging the defense?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I guess I'm not making my point very well. I can't believe that a head coach does not have any input during the game. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never been on the sidelines to see what goes on. But, If I were the head coach, I would be talking to my coordinators during the game, discussing what is working and what is not and how do we want to play the next series. I would do this with DC when we were on O and with OC when we were on D. So, I agree he is not micromanaging the play calls; but I think he should be at least aware of if not involved in the decision of whether we play prevent or something else on D and how the O is going to manage ball control or aggressive O. And I do think Corn has always had more leeway than the DC just because of the long history with CJF. And Foster probably had more leeway than JHam has.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
And, what makes you think he's not micromanaging both? Maybe the reason he defends Corn is that Corn is doing what he wants. We have ample evidence that CJF is not a good in-game coach.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
As a short term band-aid to get us to the end of the season? Absolutely
I agree, the defense hasn't been great this year, and we've completely melted down the last few weeks. But Hamilton is a long time Hokie, the hand picked Bud-approved heir to the defensive game. It would be good PR to our football alumni to take care of a guy like Hamilton for a few games in a lost season.
As I also said, I want us hiring externally for our 2022 Head Coach. So Hamilton would only be a short term fix, but I wouldn't be opposed to giving him the reigns full-time if he proves himself overwhelmingly capable of being a head coach. Always have to leave that option open as well.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If I'm Whit I'm firing Fuente now along with Corn, hiring someone on the staff to be an interim coach the rest of the season, then making massive moves. I'd hire the best available options and go all in on support staff and coordinators. People act like this money gets paid out of pocket for staffs and that's not the case. Alabama got a loan from a bank to pay for Sabans staff; when you invest like this, you will see returns. Whit has seen first hand this year that people still show up in droves for our games and spend money at the games. Put some money in the program, generate excitement, HAVE A SPRING GAME and meet and greet, and people will show up for a return on investment. So go all in and let's win! Get Napier on board with some great coordinators and let's take back the coastal
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Another poster brought this up but it depends on what leeway the contract allows. If the money is guaranteed and there's no room for demotion, etc... he has to let him go As soon as he can announce a replacement. And that needs to happen ASAP. Ideally with time before the early signing date.
He could also go the interim HC route with someone already on staff if he needs a bridge for continuity into the off season. But man that will not be great for the recruiting class.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think the point is demote him so we don't have to pay the $2.5M we'd save by waiting until Dec. 16th. And who knows, he'd probably be a better OC than Cornelson. But not sure that would sit well with the fans and the contract probably doesn't allow it anyway.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
ah... still, i can't see a scenario where that happens. Way too much pride for a head coach at this level, for any program, to take a demotion in order to stick around.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
So instead of full on break up, we just demote him to friend zone. Thought process is interesting but I've been in this scenario 100 times and it never works out. Always as the new friend, mind you.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I was just clarifying someone else's post. My guess is the contract doesn't allow for that, and Fuente and his agent would take that as intent to fire and just trying to save the $2.5M buyout and could probably (successfully) sue for the buyout. So I don't like, nor do I think demotion is feasible.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
This is exactly what I was going to post, but might also need him to be OC. Best is probably Tenuta at HC and calling plays from the both and let JHam handle the sidelines. Radio down for TO and challenges.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If we think offense is bad now wait until Hamilton is running both it and the defense. Overstep Fuente and fire Corn, 36 points against Cuse does not rectify the dog shit he's been pumping out the last 5 years. Agree to a public separation a la LSU and if Fuente won't agree fucking fire them all and watch us lose out. Next guy will have to build ground up but I'd rather watch a rebuild than recycled shit
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I don't envy Whit's position. At this point, we all know how this ends, it's a matter of when. Ar this point, I just keep refreshing the timeline expecting to see the news.
My heart wants Whit to make the move yesterday, and relieve Fu and Corn of their duties, and give either Bud or JHam an interim position, and start the public search.
My head immediately then goes to how any of that gives us a fix in that interim period for this offense and defense.
Hokie football is truly at rock bottom.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
At a certain point, it's not about this season anymore. The ACC is more wide open than it's been in a very long time and we are really not even close to challenging for it. We are struggling offensively and defensively against bad schools. Our decision making during games is poor. Top to bottom we are a complete mess, and eventually you just have to sometimes admit the solution is not currently employed.
I think this is where we are. There is no solution on staff right now that will fix what we have. So there is precious little we can do to salvage this season. So at that point, it's about making sure we are putting ourselves in the best position for 2022, and the one way we can do that now is to officially begin the transition by dismissing the head coach and OC today, to at least appease your stakeholders (fans).
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I don't disagree with one single thing you said. But that's kind of where my head is at with all of this and the predicament at large. There is a duality and I want my cake and to eat it, too.
As an alumnus of VT, and fan/supporter of this football program, I want what is best for it both long term and short term. But just purely as a fan, I do want to see us win some more football games this season. I just wish the two weren't at odds with eachother.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
1. Have the inevitable conversation with Fuente tomorrow (Monday) morning. Thank him for his time here and for always representing the university well (Fuente seems like a really good person). Communicate that it is time to move on.
2. Promote J'Ham as interim for the sake of letting the fans know that the "Hokie Family" is really important. Everyone knows he isn't ready for the Head Coach position, but he is a "family" man and as such the fans could likely get behind him for the rest of the season.
3. Hold a press conference to communicate the decision and to let the fans know that we need everyone's support now more than ever. Let's all work together to bring VT football back into the national conversation. Together we can all do this.
4. Obviously find a coach. I'm not sure a "sexy" hire is the way to go here. The expectations at Virginia Tech should not be the same as they are at a place like Alabama or Ohio State. The expectations should be that we are at the top of the Coastal division, always - that we regularly challenge Clemson for the ACC crown - that we find our way into the playoff conversation every few years. These are reasonable expectations. So finding a coach who can lay the groundwork for this kind of success is paramount. Who is that person?
Personally I think Dave Clawson is that person, a very safe, high floor - low ceiling hire. That isn't to say he can't bring us back into the national picture; I just think he won't make us Alabama. Dave Clawson has found success at every stop - he has P-5 experience - he's recruited this region (and the state of Va.) - he knows how to establish culture and develop players. If he can regularly get Beamer type of recruiting classes I have no doubts that we can be at the top of the Coastal and regularly challenge Clemson for the ACC.
It's a Mike Young type of hire for sure, but this is exactly the type of person who can succeed at VT the way VT should be succeeding in football.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Not sure how folks see a Clawson as a CMY like hire. CMY came from Wofford to ACC hoops. C Clawson is already head coach at an undefeated first place ACC program. Better program than ours, currently. Why would he make the move...
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Well, Wake set out to be that program, now time for VT. And of Coure WF is the smallest school in D1
In 2013 A half-dozen of Wake Forest University's most influential and well-heeled donors sat in an Athens, Ga. restaurant after touring UGA contemplating the Demon Deacons' football future.
The linchpins are a $40 million Sutton Sports Performance Center, a four-level, 87,000-square-foot facility, and the $21 million McCreary Field House, an indoor practice building that the Deacons call the finest in the country.
Outside of football, a $12 million basketball player development and a $14 million baseball player development addition opened earlier this year. That doesn't include millions more for volleyball, field hockey, men's and women's soccer, and men's and women's golf, which enjoy an 18-acre practice area right on campus.
The 2011 Wake Forest Men's Tennis Team went 14-12 (5-6 in the ACC) and didn't make it out of the 2nd round in either postseason tournament. Now, just 7 years later wake forest won a tennis national championship.
The men's soccer team played in the national championship game in 2016
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I mean it's also worth noting that Wake beat us in Cary in the College Cup on the way to them winning the 2007 men's soccer national championship, so it's not like they weren't already good in some areas before this all happened.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Sure, they were good. Thats a very VT way of thinking. Good.
From my post a few years ago on that good issue. What do these two guys want, this is what Hokies should have wanted and what we got living in the good zone
More than 10 years ago
This was Clemson's first Conference Championship Game since 1991, obviously it wasnt their last one since then.
One was living on the hype of 2009/2010 season while not adjusting to the new College football game/Recruiting. the other took that game as a further launching point. Knew the way to win and got the players
Like QB Tajh Boyd's, The sophomore quarterback threw three touchdown that game. But of course why didnt he come to Tech? He was Hampton, Va., native won state title in a game that was played at Lane Stadium. Virginia Tech offered Boyd a scholarship
Clemson did all of this as a non traditional football school with a budget and school similar to VT
Wake too
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I may stop reading this thread here. I will also not post anything else out side of this reply. No need to. I think this is the best course of action. Well stated and thought out. Leg for you.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I just don't get the Clawson love. He's basically having his one good year this year and then they'll go back to winning 4-6 games for the next couple years and then he'll have a season where he'll win 7 or 8 and the cycle repeats.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Earlier we move on from Fuente the better. Allows recruits not be blindsided and allows Whit to have plenty of time to do his due diligence on coaching search . You can't be last to the coaching search party .
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Ultimately, dollars are going to factor. He has to balance current dollars with future dollars. If the people providing future dollars are saying it's time, it's time. To balance current dollars, you fire Fuente, Cornelson, and someone else. Williams is a low hanging fruit. You keep enough staff on to have a functional team for the remainder of the season.
But to keep the fan base somewhat engaged, you don't promote for the interim. Bring someone in that basically stands on the sidelines and draws attention. Obviously Beamer and Foster are the answers most fans will immediately run to. But a Vick (limited coaching experience) or Strock (more coaching experience) type hire is an option. All are guaranteed to "fail" from the standpoint of wins. But, they're splashy and maybe retain some of the disenfranchised fan base.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
But to keep the fan base somewhat engaged, you don't promote for the interim
Hard disagree on this one. Programs do it all the time and fans stay engaged. Not to mention, in my mind promoting J'Ham does exactly this. He is a Hokie. I'm certain most Hokie fans/Alum would support him as the interim guy and be engaged as they know changes are being made.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Hamilton is trying to get his coaching career going. Making him interim for almost certain losses just makes for a rough start. And I can't say I'm confident he is ready anyway. If I can't say that, then why not one of the others?
Honestly, I wouldn't want the remainder of the season's record on anyone like Bud or Beamer either.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I genuinely don't know how you can roll Fuente out for another home game. We're at the point where the fan base has completely turned on him. If you were worried about the "optics" of firing a coach during covid last year and the "optics" of how fans were behaving earlier this season, you need to be worried about the optics of what this fanbase is going to do if they have to see him in the tunnel at Lane one more time - whether that's an empty stadium for a home game, vulgar chants directly at our HC, throwing things on the field, they're all damaging/bad looks and they're all unfortunately in play if Whit sits on his hands here. I'm not saying any of those things are a good thing but you can't keep him as the coach right now and then act surprised when any of those things happen at the Duke game in three weeks. You have to reel this fanbase back into a positive light and the only thing that's going to do that now is firing Fuente immediately.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
It's going to be so bad. I have wanted to move from Fuente for years, but holy shit was that a bad look at the Cuse game. I think I would consider limiting student attendance to the game for Duke. Having that on TV is red alert and it's toxic to the players.
This is ok Whit for keeping him around so long, but now there is not an easy way to keep that ugliness from happening
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Try to take the LSU route. Privately tell Fuente he is likely to be fired the day after his buyout drops and give him the opportunity to handle it with class; essentially giving him the opportunity to audition for his next job. If he blows up, cut him now.
If Fu is fired mid-season I'd make John Tenuta or even Shibest the interim before JHam. Let the Coordinators continue to do their jobs.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Secure money for the buyout, with firing planned the day after uva. Work with agents of coaches on your wishlist to gauge their interest...and have interviews lined up starting a day or two after the uva game. It would be great to have a replacement lined up ahead of time, but I don't think interviews would occur prior to the firing being publicly announced.
Secure money to greatly increase the size of our recruiting staff. The next coach is surely going to demand increased resources for recruiting...get ahead of that demand, and get it done. Shoulda been done a long time ago, anyways.
If Whit decided to fire Fuente now, I think Shibest is best option for interim coach.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fire Fuente or he will continue to lose fan dollars/support.
I'm actually all for a fan boycott of the last home game...and I hate that idea for the players and program, but ultimately that may be the only way to drive the point "home".
I always wanted Fuente to be the next great coach at VT, but we need a coach that will instill confidence week in and week out. It's that "it" that Fu seems to never have found!
There were less fans there this game than last. I can only imagine how bare they will look for Duke.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I have already decided that I will not step back into Lane this season if Fuente is still head coach. Our tailgate has decided we are going to do our yearly Thanksgating thing in Lot 18 and some (most?) are just going to hang out at the tailgate and stuff ourselves on Thanksgiving food. I want the attendance of the Duke game to be so bad Whit 100% understands there is no option other than to fire Fuente.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I legitimately think Whit's standard for the program is 1) fans still showing up to games and 2) all is good as long as we are in the Coastal race. What an incredibly low bar we have fallen to. We're in the Coastal race every year until we aren't, and Fuente hasn't won it in five years now. I also think Whit is going to ride this out until the end of the year and will give Fuente every chance to turn this thing around.
Whit has been a great AD for basketball and non-revs. But I seriously think he has no clue regarding football. His big hire at Cincinnati (Tuberville) ended up being a disaster. They had better coaches before (Kelly, Jones) and after (Fickell).
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I understand the frustration but I have full confidence that Whit understands that football is king at VT.
I don't believe that the current state of affairs we find ourselves in meets his standards. I believe Whit will take action and we will have a new head whistle this time next year.
Again I understand the frustration (and have had more than my fair share of frustration) however I believe Whit is a fine AD.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think Whit's too savvy to have those type of standards, and this season is the perfect example. The home schedule was front loaded, so by the time the fanbase got antsy, we only have one game left. As for the Coastal race, the earliest we can be mathematically eliminated is the first weekend of November. Both of those factors are at the mercy of how the ACC made the schedule.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Negotiate a lower buyout for Fuente to be gone the Monday after the BC game ( with a game at noon in 6 days then BC on Friday I don't think you fire Today), promote Shibest to interim HC and announce search for new HC.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Call a huge very important press conference for Monday. Then talk about how great a job I think Mike Young is doing, not mention football at all. Then take questions from Twitter and answer them all like the football team is doesn't exist just to piss them off.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I mean my god at least force Fuente to fire Cornelson... and yes, I get that the defense struggled yesterday too, but do people forget that JHAM could be considered to be in "year 1" with all that's happened since he took over?
Cornelson has had 6 (SIX) years to produce and all we've done is regress and let some really good talent leave (shout out to HH and QP, among others).
At the very God damn least, force Cornelson out one way or another.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
This. Lets keep JHams progress vs Cornelsons over time in context. JHam is making progress. Waller injured and then out was a big impact. We all know if Fuente goes the next HC will want his own DC and JHam is likely gone.
Criticism should be balanced.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The (probably) sad thing is, I think Fuente actually might just not have the balls to fire someone. And that maybe he is a good coach. He seems like a good person and knows his Xs and Os, so maybe he just doesn't have the sack to cut ties with someone who is his friend.
I really think the first move (now that I'm awake AND sober) is fire Cornelson. And the best thing that could happen for JF is to blow out the Bees. If he face plants over the next 2 weeks, then cut him too.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Serious question. With the big buyout and increased support and recruiting staff any good coach will demand, where is the $$ coming from?? Not to mention salary for the new coach and assistants??
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
But seriously, I think the buyout money was there last year. And I'd bet Whit has been holding back on the staff budget since at least the Baylor fiasco.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
There are 66,000 fans at the game, and night sold out games are more intense. And VT sells a $9 beer
So if half the fans bought at least 2 beers every quarter, 8 beers a game for half the fan base is 270,000 beers at $9 is more than $2 million at 2 night games is more than $4 million. 2 other games had to be close to a million and 3 other games pulled in another million.
Thats $7 million.
Drink Beer for a new coach?
Make it a fundraiser for the Duke game since attendence will be lower to hit our numbers
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
This is why you don't wait to fire him. The buyout might be bad, but the revenue losses from a fanbase in revolt that doesn't bother to show up for a home game is potentially far worse.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
In all seriousness (and please don't flame me for this) -- I know the situation Fuente inherited is nowhere near as bad as the one CFB inherited, but I can't help but draw some parallels between the two coaches.
In year 6:
both coaches had/have disappointing records and had/have very close losses
both coaches seemingly had/have ADs that believe in them
both coaches are loyal to a fault (looking at Cornelsen and others)
I know it isn't a choice anybody wants, but is anyone willing to give Fuente another year, provided he makes key staff changes?
I know Fuente was hired because he was allegedly a "great coach" and our program had enough stature to command a great one -- but what if he wasn't and Whit knew that he'd need some time to develop?
It's clear to me that the players seem to play hard for Fuente, but that he is let down by lack of player development and scheme design. These are normally things that a coach should course correct quickly (and make staff changes accordingly), but it seems that Fuente is too loyal to his friends.
If anyone cares to read, I found this article from the Chicago Tribune written prior to the 2000 BCS NCG. Dave Braine didn't think Frank Beamer was a great coach when he was hired, but always thought he could be one. Frank Beamer thought that he wasn't one of those guys that had everything figured out at the beginning.
I realize that today nobody has same kind of patience they had 30 years ago, but it seems in Whit's eyes, Fuente has done enough to last this long.
Here are some things I'm thinking about:
In-state recruiting seems to be improving and the team is in the midst of retooling on defense
There doesn't seem to be any realistic home run hires in the coaching market today. We'd have to take a sizeable chance on an unknown
Taking a chance on an unknown while paying the buyout for Fuente's staff and then missing on Fuente's successor may very much hinder the athletic department's upward trajectory. Waiting another year does minimize the financial impact and allows the candidate pool to mature. If Fuente can win out, this option becomes more viable
Just some thoughts -- I want this program to succeed as much as anybody here, but I don't want us to rush into a mistake.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I posted this near the end of the vent thread, but it's relevant here....
Fuente has had two significant flaws to his coaching strategy.
1.) He believes Corn is a good OC.
2.) He believes that he can just be the CEO-type coach and fully delegate to his staff.
Now, it's entirely possible that #2 can be true, just not in the current situation, and he should have realized that he needed to take extra measures to improve the team.
Either he's known about both problems but has been too proud or stubborn to address them, or he's just figured it out now that those are problems. Or even worse, he's not aware of those problems. All of those scenarios are bad.
Above all else, Cornelsen needs to go. Seeing as how he's also the QB coach and they suck too, it's not even a case of someone being promoted one step too high.
I might be willing to keep Fuente around if he makes that change. Unfortunately for him, he will have a very short leash even if he makes that move. If he had done so at any point in the last 3 years, I'm sure folks would have been more forgiving.
But if the only way to can Corn is to cut Fuente loose, then both of them need to go.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fully agree -- I think staff changes at a minimum need to be made.
I don't think the QBs and WRs have developed at all.
It doesn't help when you see Hendon Hooker doing really well at Tennessee and making plays that he never made consistently at VT.
It also doesn't help that it seems like our WRs don't get open consistently to have sustained success in the passing game. It is especially frustrating when you hear promising things about players like Jaden Payoute and Dallan Wright, only for them to never make a notable contribution. WR development hasn't happened since Holmon Wiggins left.
Undecided on the RBs -- new RBs coach seems to be better than Zohn Burden, but I don't know why it took them this long to give a different RB else a chance until yesterday. I really respect Jalen Holston for sticking it out here, but it just doesn't seem like he is the guy.
If Fuente refuses to make any changes, then he absolutely must go. If he thinks making a change is "ludicrous", and expects things to get better as is, then he is insane.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I mean, Beamer saved his job after the '92 2-8-1 shitshow by replacing both his coordinators. And I imagine he was expected to turn things around pretty quickly or he'd have been cut too. If Fuente want the same chance then he needs to show the same willingness to make major staff changes that Beamer did 30 years ago. If Corny is still on staff at the end of the year I'm done.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Football has changed so much that you can't compare their career paths.
What you can look at is accomplishments and Fuente has made all the wrong kind of history;
Bowl streak
Commonwealth Cup
Home beatings
Black Diamond
Liberty
ODU
Looking at our third losing season in the last four and he's been here six years. I feel like I probably left a couple of things out as well.
It just didn't work. He'll benefit from this experience and maybe be a good coach elsewhere.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Nope. There are huge differences.
CFB took over a team which had not had much success and turned it into a recurring conference champion. He inherited a true dumpster fire from Dooley and had recruiting sanctions. His first 2 classes were 15-17 players instead of 30. Even back in the 80's, recruiting matters!!! He started bringing in better talent and then swapped coordinators and the rest is history.
Fuente inherited a top-25 team which was the #1 in Virginia (as opposed to second fiddle to George Welsh UVA). He's recruited poorly. He's alienated people with his standoffish approach. He's done the bare minimum.
I was at VT in the Beamer years and there are some parallels but even those are different. Beamer's early teams blew games where they'd get a lead against a superior opponent and then fade in the second half. But that seemed to be talent and depth hurting us. You had the feeling if we had the numbers then we could beat a FSU or whoever. But with Fuente, it just comes down to being gutless and playing not to lose. Failing to score TDs time and time again with first and goal vs WVU. Not getting a first down yesterday. Blowing a similar lead versus Notre Dame. We currently have no sanctions. When we lose it is because of recruiting and coaching.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Dooley had actually made some progress with VT football. He'd put it on the map, even if he cut a few corners to do it. He proved that VT football could be relevant.
Beamer was hampered in terms of recruiting, but VT football had had a number one NFL draft pick, had been to three bowl games, had won the peach bowl (and had a 10 win season) under Dooley. Beamer was able to make a pretty compelling case there for VT football, and had the support of the VT administration.
So while Beamer was restricted by sanctions, and huge challenges, there was some reason for hope. People had taken notice of VT football. And there was some good justification to cut him some slack on his rebuild, which the VT AD did. After that, Beamer was ridiculously successful at building a solid team and winning games. But the game was changing by the time he retired.
I'm not saying we should keep Fuente, but we should keep our perspective on the challenge he faced in replacing a legend. He was facing a pretty major rebuild
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fuente is a lame duck coach at this point. Whit is running a search behind the scenes already. The only question is do you fire Fuente now or in 6 weeks?
To answer this, Whit needs to check in with the players - The season might be a lost cause for fans, but what about for the players? Do they feel like they have something to play for? Is the locker room toxic or does the team feel like they're in this together? If the latter, let Fuente coach out the season. If the former, fire him now.
At this point, The least Whit can do is try to make this season as enjoyable as possible for the players.
EDIT: correcting 2 words
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
There's long term decisions, and short term. Fuente will be replaced this season - that much clear. The question is when IMO. Take some input from the players here. That's all I'm saying.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If you've watched any games at all this season, it's pretty clear the players are still playing to win.
I'm seeing apathy from fans, but not from the players. Now that could quickly change if the fans start booing them at home, and Whit voices a lack of confidence by by-passing the coaches and having meetings with the players.
But it is interesting these days how people try to shortcut issues by saying "What about the children?"
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Honestly, I'm wondering if Whit might also have to worry about his job security, too. There is so much that seems wrong with the athletic department's foundation. Poor fundraising, poor season ticket sales, poor outreach to athletic alumni, and we can add in ridiculous student behavior in Lane Stadium.
I think there just needs new leadership and fresh thinking, starting at the top.
Edited to add that Whit should have let Fuente go after the disastrous 2018 season where it became known that players were trying to lose on purpose along with allowing that ESPN article getting published.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
And the question there is a lot like coaching: "Is this going in the right direction?"
With Whit, there's a pretty strong argument that it is.
My feeling is that he's one of the best ADs in the business. I've been impressed with most of his choices INCLUDING Fuente (at his time of hire). So while he's being tested here, I have faith that any changes he makes will be pretty optimal.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Poor fundraising, poor season ticket sales, poor outreach to athletic alumni, and we can add in ridiculous student behavior in Lane Stadium.
Most of that is chalked up to two things: the football team sucking, and COVID.
If we can right the ship for football, the ticket sales will improve. Fundraising will also improve as the team improves.
And fundraising across the board? I feel like they're slowly working on improving it, but keep running into roadblocks. Some they can control (like poor performance), and some they can't (pandemic and economy).
Student behavior? That's a problem larger than the athletic department, and not exclusive to VT.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think at the very least Whit owes the fan base an apology for his decision to stick with Fuente & staff while overseeing the downfall of a once proud program. A shakeup with the staff should have already happened but that's more on Fuente than the AD. He needs a slam dunk hire or the perception becomes Whit doesn't understand the importance of football at VT.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fuente was considered a home run at the time. Almost every other sport has improved and he has made some great hires including 2 in men's hoops. Whit is a top 8-10 AD in the country.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I don't feel like a top 8-10 AD in the country goes on record with this quote: "Our offense, from people you would know, is very well thought of,. "We have a quarterback you can win with, we've regained some of our identity on offense...what we've not done a good job of is dehumanizing Brad Cornelsen."
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
more like a ball that made a great sound coming off the bat and looked like it had a real chance to leave the park but just kept hooking and hooking and ended up going foul 3/4 of the way through the flight
but there is nothing revisionist about saying he was "considered a home run at the time" which is what most folks are saying. Everyone lauded the hire and the smooth transition from Beamer to Fuente. To argue that anyone back then could see this coming would be revisionist
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If he wants my money/season ticket renewal, he owes me an explanation/apology of that fucked up press conference. If he doesn't fine, I'm just barely a golden Hokie at 28 so I'm sure I don't matter according to him.
Doubt I'm the only one considering not renewing
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You can put in anything you want, but remember, you're trying to ATTRACT a coach. Your contract with him is competing with the other teams who want him.
This is why you have ridiculous buy out clauses.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
And you can in-attract them in a hurry if your contract sucks/becomes obvious that your terms are going to be far less favorable compared to other schools.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I love the idea of tying a "buyout clause" with success, but the whole point of that clause to protect the coach when he does get fired. He only gets fired (without cause) for lack of success.
While I'm sure the AD would like to have their cake and eat it too, there is no coach (and agent representing a coach) that would agree to a buyout that is nullified for lack of success.
And regarding performance metrics, wins and accomplishments are already included within the compensation package (mostly as bonuses). Recruiting success was not included, but there is a risk that including such a compensation can encourage undesirable recruiting practices that the VT AD would not like to encourage.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
1. It's a troll account 2. It doesn't even make sense, there would be no "interim" coach if we wait for Dec 16 unless the delayed buyout is some side deal worked out with Fuente
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Funny thing is, the current profile picture is a completely different guy than last year's!
The dude would have been better off creating a new account after getting called out when someone found out the real identity of the original profile picture.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
He should clean house and hire the Blacksburg high school coaching staff in the interim to finish out the season. Then start fresh with all new coaches not associated with this program. Whole new leaf. What will he do? Based on last year's press conference Jack and his best friend...
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Start making moves ASAP. Hopefully he's been backchanneling already, but if he hasn't, he needs to start doing that too. Not sure about JHam, but the whole offensive side of the ball and Fuente need to go.
If Whit retains everyone, I don't care who's calling the shots, we need to start having a serious conversation about his job too
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I seem to remember Whit saying he "always has a list".
I think he's a guy who always stays connected with the possibilities. Given the overall situation with VT football, I feel certain he's having some conversations, even if he hasn't made a final decision.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You fire Fuente now and install an Interim for the rest of the year. JHam would be my choice because I believe he has the respect of and can relate to the players.
Despite how bad things appear, there are still things to play for--a bowl bid being one of them. With as mediocre as the ACC is this year, we have a reasonable chance (though will probably be underdogs vs. all but Duke) vs. everyone left on the schedule.
Recruting will be what it will...in either case (fire vs. wait til 12/16), I think we are gonna have a very bumpy road to ESD.
Make a statement. Play hard and make a Bowl and move on. No more of this substandard, tone-deaf, incompetent, and nepotistic shit.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
So, if money is truly a problem, I can see Sands saying fuck it, keep him another year.
But for Whit, that would mean stepping over the HC role to update the offensive staff. That's the only way I see Fuente staying. Make the necessary staff changes to get over the 8 win ceiling.
Otherwise, write the pink slip now, and call it a day.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Keeping him another year will actually COST more money - not save any. The fans are pissed, the team stinks and the assistants are going to shop themselves to other schools cause Fu is a lame duck. Thus costing you more for new assistants anyway. Trying to salvage a 35th ranked recruiting class isn't close to worth it.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
At this point I start my coaching search in earnest - including new coordinators . I'm making calls and getting everything lined up. I'm asking Sands for a top 5 ACC football budget with the new staff. And I'm signing an agreement in principal with the new coach and firing Fu the moment the buy out drops.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You had me right up until waiting for the buyout to drop. Isn't that basically right at early signing day? I don't think we can afford to wait that long, let's give the new coach a couple weeks to speak with recruits/families, and hopefully salvage some of this signing class
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I agree with all of this, save for waiting for the buyout to drop. Rip off the bandaid, and do it right at the end of the season. Don't wait 2.5 weeks for this. The day after UVA, announce the firing and the hiring, and get to work on recruiting/retaining the commits.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
No more project hires. If there were/are alumni willing to put out the money to get FU gone, I am sure the same would pony up to get a real coach. G5 success does but always translate to P5 success. Out loud WE ARE NOT A G5 PROGRAM.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Who is this mythical coach?
Cutcliffe and Brown are the only 2 coaches in ACC with previous P5 HC positions.
Sark is only one in Big 12.
The Big Ten is better with Bielema, Harbaugh, Franklin, Chryst, and Schiano. But Franklin was really the only one that came from a successful situation. The rest had failed prior to being hired.
The Pac 12 only has Karl Dorell, who failed pretty bad at UCLA and Chip Kelly.
SEC has Saban, Mullen, Fisher, Leach, Kiffin, and Oregeron which two of them are mixed bags prior.
It really all looks like a gamble no matter who you are.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
A good refresher on what What said back in December. Strong reminder that even with the performance, I don't think we are going to see a coaching change until the end of the season. Even stronger reminder that Whit at least gave lip service to how he understands Fuente's approach, and that he believes in it... that said, he HAS to fire at least one assistant, and recognize that both sides of the ball need change.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I was screaming at the TV. If I could see it, the refs on the field should have been able to. It was happening earlier in the game as well, but it was ridiculous at the end.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I was off the Fuente train a couple of years ago, when we first started bleeding starters to the portal, and definitely after the SI article. I hoped Whit would fire him last December.
That being said, there's some serious overreactions here. We're 3-4, not 1-6. While I think it's likely we finish 4-8, technically if we win out (insert laugh track) we'd finish no lower than 2nd in the Coastal.
Fuente is almost certainly gone after this year, but there's absolutely no advantage to firing him mid-season. That's not going to save the season, and it would be a red flag for any incoming new head coach.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I don't think it would be a red flag - we kept him 3 years from when he started showing poor performance. That shows potential coaches we have more patience than a LOT of other schools.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fuente and Corn have to go. I think we all agree on that. I wish things had worked out better for Fu and I think he's a good person. Really Corn probably is too. It just didnt work. I dont think is from a lack of trying.....sometimes despite everyones best efforts, the parts just dont mesh right for everything to become more than the sum of the individual parts. I love VT...not just VT football...and Fu and Corn have represented us well as good people....its just not working to build a culture and identity that is going to sustain this football program. That said, i think JHam has great potential.....just not as a HC yet. FFS hes just getting his feet wet as a DC and making him interim HC will probably derail his growth in that role. Plus a new coach will probably not retain him anyway, so why not let JHam continue to audition for a DC job somewhere else? I feel like we owe him that...the guy bleeds O&M and we should do everything we can to set him up for another job as DC somewhere else if its not gonna be here. We need to let Fu and Corn go now in order to be ahead of other teams in a coaching search before the end of the season. I think thats clear or else we are going to have to 'settle' for scraps of this years offseason coaching pool. So that said, who could we have steer the ship as an interim for the rest of the year? Some people have suggested Bud. Thats not happening. He retired for his health. For real. Not like Urban Meyer bullshit. This game almost killed him. But.....I dont know if anyone else has said ths.......what about Frank? He's right here in town. If Whit approcahed him and asked him to just steer the ship for 6 games, and it was CLEAR that that is all that Frank was going to do, and go back to walking Hank around campus ever day...would Frank do it? I bet hed do it for free cause he loves VT so much. He'd have no pressure to succed or have to worry about what happens at the end of the season. The only question would be who we make OC. Shibest? Vice? French? Fuck....make Hank OC. What have we got to lose?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I totally get not making JHam the interim coach. It would probably hurt his career in the long run more than it could possibly help.
But there's been a bunch of ideas floated around here to bring back Bud or Frank. Has there ever been a case of a head coach getting fired midseason and an interim getting named from the outside?
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Teerlinck or Tenuta make more since if you are going to blow it up. Give Hamilton more time to get expierence. Even JC Price makes more sense as HC as he has been a co-dc at least. And is a great ambassador for VT.
Teerlinck can go back to the NFL, JC Price has had a long career and will easily get picked up by some staff. Tenuta might just stay in Blacksburg until his son leaves. But he doesn't need any help for his next job. However, Hamilton, Tyler, and Smith (to a lesser extent) need to show what they can do because they don't have the resume yet. And I think highly of all 3. I think highly of our entire defensive staff, they are just green and learning.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The closest example I can think of was the 1 year of Jim Grobe at Baylor. He was a 1 season hire due to the clusterfuck at Baylor. But that wasn't mid season.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If I'm Whit Babcock, I'd be blowing up Sands' phone until I get approval to spend the buyout money on a buyout, or...
I pull the trigger, and get fired for insubordination. Let Sands be the bad guy.
If you are venting on this thread, please let Sands know that a poor football program is directly linked to poor alumni engagement, less dollars for the university, fewer admissions, etc. Email him. Leave him a voicemail. Tweet. Don't care how it's done, do it. Make our voices heard.
And no, Sands does not give one flying fuck about our beloved football program. That has been made very clear this season.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If I'm Whit I am calling Sands and forcing discussion on the buyout and the next budget for staff. If I don't like anything I hear or think I am getting fed some bullshit, I'm making some calls and taking my talents elsewhere.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Speculating, but I think 'football matters' is something Sands learned the hard way. I don't think he understood it when he got here. I'm sure at some point donors said they would stop donating to main campus until football was sorted out.
Whelp - my speculation was wrong. Thanks for the info Guitarman
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
We had a record-breaking year in terms of donations to the university. While I'm sure there are some people who are upset about some thing or another, giving has risen basically every year under President Sands.
I will stipulate, of course, that several large gifts for specific purposes were given last year, some of which went to the Innovation Campus, but the university's financial position is rather good at this point and donations continue to increase year after year.
I'll also state that I'm not one who believes too much in the "Sands doesn't care about football" narrative. I have my reasons for that, some of which is confidential information and I'm not going to elaborate here. He realizes the importance of football, and VT athletics in general. And it is not some recent revelation or begrudging shift in position.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I will start this by saying I didn't go to Virginia Tech, so I feel as my opinion doesn't weigh as much. With that said my industry works closely with Virginia Tech and has donated heavily to specific areas of the college. So much so that the old dairy on campus was funded by the Virginia dairy association in the early 2000's and in 2006 they decided to change everything and move the dairy complex and selling the equipment (less than 6 years of use on dairy equipment is nothing) funded by the association. So while some of that drivel may seem small pebbles, to some people it's not. While not all of that is Sands, he's the face of the college right now.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Not to defend CJF, but I think he has a better case for execution being the problem with the Syracuse game than has been reasonable for most games we have lost. But it's still his job to prepare his players to execute and to put them in situations that they can execute.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fire Fuente and hire TKP as interim coach. We can call plays the same way they did Twitch Plays Pokemon. With any luck we might be able to beat Duke and UVa.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I try and lock down the successor in back channels before announcing anything. When it's public that Fu is officially out, the many other teams also likely looking for a new HC will scramble that much harder.
Once the new big whistle is locked in, CJF announces his resignation and the team does decently the rest of the season, pressure is off CJF and they just have fun playing football the rest of the season.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Good plan. Try to negotiate a mutual agreement with Fu that he finishes the season, and then receives his $7.5M buyout, or the lowest we can get it to. Have him announce, now, that he'll step down after uVA game, and start the new coaching search on the up and up, after Fu resignation is announced. Hope is that Fu wants out as much as we want him out. Big question is how much jack, and then how do we do it better than the UofTennessee does their coaching changes.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
So I'll be the dissenting voice and say Fu stays through the uva game. VT is not a cut throat SEC school that does mid-year firings based on performance. It's not the culture we want and won't help us attract his replacement.
If I'm Whit, I publicly endorse the team and the players for another tough loss, highlighting that we are 3 plays (and maybe 25 seconds) away from being 6-1. And encourage the fans to rally behind these young players as a break through is imminent (yadadada....).
I also get final approval from the BoV and President Sands to release Fuente at the end of the season and officially begin to recruit his replacement. His call whether he lets Fu know or not, to let him find his next role or negotiates the buy out.
Similar to the Beamer transition, Whit needs to have the new guy in line immediately so there is no uncertainty for the current players or recruits. Treat this professionally knowing there will be a huge turn over in coaches this year to make up from last season. Remove all barriers to be as prepared and competitive to go get his guy.
This season is lost - canning Fu now won't change that. Take the high road to make VT more appealing for the next guy. JHam is out regardless after this year - too young for HC or hold over for new guy. He's the biggest loser here but should bounce back quickly.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Good perspective, and always wise to take the high road. I would say that this is double-edged... a top tier coach (and top recruits) wants to know they have support of the administration AND a culture that is focused on winning. Waiting until season's end, or giving off the impression that we waited, puts a question mark on that winning culture.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Pack a sling full of ice tigers and go wade the New at McCoy Falls swinging flies for Smallmouth Bass and watch sorority girls float by in tubes. The answer will come, I can assure you, Whit.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Whit has two massive red marks on his name. Signing the terrible Nike deal, and offering Fuente a contract extension with the absurd buy out we all know too well.
Yes, he hired Mike Young and made strides in Olympic sports, but I hope he's learned something about contracts
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You're absolutely correct that the Fuente extension was WAY premature. He accomplished nothing to deserve it and actually displayed negative traits that spoke against it.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The timing with the buyout was horrible. Jimbo had left FSU and they allegedly come sniffing around Fuente, and it was hard not to worry some after what seemed like he was getting us back on track with 10- and 9-win seasons in 2016 and 2017. Obviously now those were fools gold with a roster of Beamer's players. I think Whit was right in doing something at the time to fend off interest from others, but I do think the terms were extremely one-sided and gave Fuente all the leverage. I think coming to terms with firing Fu is going to be tough for Whit. It was a big hire for him, and VT spent considerable effort framing Fu as the ideal successor to Frank, trying to emphasize his fit with the program and forge some sort of relationship between the two coaches. Obviously it has turned out to be a train wreck. This program absolutely has to get away from the mentality of finding the next Beamer. Hire the candidate who can recruit talent back to this program and coach at a high level. Whether they stay 10 years or only a few is irrelevant. Don't try to force some contrived narrative about them being the next Beamer. Let them go win ballgames.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Demand Fu to fire Corn today or Witt do it himself (this will be an immediate move for fans/alumni to see an actionable item from athletic to demonstrate they know the seriousness of the issues)
Pull a page from the LSU playbook and announce now that Fu and VT will be parting ways at the end of the season. This gives Fu more time also to figure out what/where/when he lands as he has young kids in school, wife to think about relocation during the holiday season. Take the opportunity in that presser to mention all the positives for Fu (good man, runs clean program, loyal, etc) so we don't appear salty. Everything is then on the up and up with all parties and VT doesn't appear to be sneaky or cut throat. Make the parting as friendly as possible to try and retain goodwill with recruits and current players who played for him. Minimize the drama at all cost and don't appear like a crappy employer.
Let Fu continue this season as the head coach and OC in place of Corn. Dump of any responsibilities that Fu doesn't have time for now that he is also OC to Shibest or Tenuta. This also gives Fu time to possibly prove his OC abilities for a future employer. This also gives JHam more time to improve his DC resume for a future job. It's least disruptive to current staff.
Reach out to Sands and BOV for new football budget that puts us in top 4 of ACC and start working his way down his list of candidates.
This would be both a short term fix and longer term solution that fans/alumni and other VT supporters can see, feel and support.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The alternative is rooting against VT. I will never root against VT.
I'm still pulling for these kids. Even if that means we somehow end up in Charlotte against Wake Forest. Whether a new head coach shows up or not, I will always support VT.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Sorry, man. You heard what my expert said. It's not about what you think your work is worth. It's about market value and us being able to get something on resale.
That's super /S, French. You know you're worth at least a lifetime supply of Pal's.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I park my very expensive car in my designated parking spot next to Jamerson. I take a nice early Fall stroll across the most beautiful college campus in the world. I walk up the steps of Burruss Hall, and make my way directly to Tim Sands' office. I proceed to demand we open the checkbook and to allow us to make the moves that allow our football program to prosper, thereby building the image of the university the world over. I throw a hissy fit until I get exactly what I came looking for.
I go back to Jamerson. I place a single "For Sale" yard sign outside of Justin Fuente's door with a sticky note that says "We need to talk. Love, Whit".
I have a very difficult conversation with a very decent man whom I respect but need to part ways with.
Then, I pick up my handy dandy iPhone that Virginia Tech pays for and I call Luke Fickell and say "Say a number"
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I walk up the steps of Burruss Hall, and make my way directly to Tim Sands' office. I proceed to demand we open the checkbook and to allow us to make the moves that allow our football program to prosper, thereby building the image of the university the world over.
Quick lesson in university finance. The core university budget and that of the athletic department are separate, by law. VT pays a tiny portion of Fuente's salary and gives him some official title like "professional lecturer" (this is what Beamer was) and every other penny paid to him comes from athletics. Under your scenario, Sands looks at Whit and says, "fine, if you can pay for it. It's your checkbook."
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Loans are possible under very limited circumstances but anything that involves E&G (education and general operating) funds that come from the state becomes very precarious. I know for a fact Sands will not make such a loan, nor should he as it is legally dicey if not outright illegal. Most other funds the university has access to are for dedicated purposes, and while you can do some creative accounting and things like debt restructuring, it's basically not something that the BOV will approve of.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The terms may not be great, and there are oversight channels that have to be satisfied to take out another loan. The athletic department is in a weird place of having to finance itself (mostly) but it's also subject to university approval for things like that. Also, keep in mind that (while I haven't seen the current numbers and won't until after the football season), the athletic department was MASSIVELY underwater last year due to the impacts of the pandemic. Whit & co. did some clever and beneficial navigating, restructuring, etc. to solve some problems but they are hurting. Getting a loan when you're already underwater in ways you've never been before may not be the wisest move.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
That may be traditional wisdom, but the athletic department's revenue isn't guaranteed to any degree. A recession that affects donations and ticket sales, or a couple years of bad performance while a new coach builds up would affect revenue. You don't want to go and add payments that may be difficult to make. Unless there was something they could spend money on that would guarantee additional income, it's probably not worth it right now, and in the athletic department, it's hard to imagine anything that would fit in that category (other than a new football coach).
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
This was mostly a joke since the theory/rumor was Sands/university leadership put the end to an plans Whit had to move on after last year. But your condescension is noted for the record
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
There was no condescension in my reply. I've seen this kind of thing floated over and over again and simply haven't had time to reply anywhere else, so I took the opportunity here to make a note that I thought would be useful for people who don't know about how things are paid for at the university level. I'm not trying to pick on you, it's just a useful place to provide some insight.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If the concern was about spending money during the pandemic, it would have been discussed far earlier than (what appeared to be) a last minute change in plans. The sensible theories are: a coaching candidate pulled out last minute, or a big donor who was funding a good portion of the buyout got cold feet.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If you're a top tier (Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson...LSU, USC) AD, you get out in front of this now. State your intent, and act. Even if the intent is to give Fu yet one more year, you need to be out in front of it to secure the recruiting class.
Do I think Fu is the guy...No. Do I think Whit will wait until season's end and only act when his hand is forced...Yes. Do I think we're looking at a 3-5 year rebuild while struggling at the bottom of the ACC...Yes.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think Whit has the cash available when he wants it...more of an issue of throwing "his guy" under the bus and dealing with the emotional fallout. That said, if he waits as long as I expect...he'll have a disengaged fan base, some very large donors ready to pull their support, and an empty recruiting cupboard.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Pretend you're Whit, how do you handle the football program moving forward?
I'm starting to suspect that this "Joe Lanza" fellow is actually Whit's TKP alias and he is directly soliciting us for feedback on what should be done. Hmm...
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
He writes the new contract with several key clauses to make the buyout adjustable. TIC somewhat.
Win the ACC, buyout goes up by a half million.
Win 10 games, buyout goes up by a half million.
Fail to go to a bowl, your buyout reduces a half million. Bowling is a 100,000 bonus.
Lose to UVA or WVU, your buyout goes down 250,000. Win for 50,000 bonus.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I like that. 2.5 mil per year buyout per year for six years. Lets take a look at Fu's career how that would look with the 2018 buyout of 15 mil
Each loss lowers it by 250k for the year
Bowl miss lowers another 250k
Actual rival loss lowers by another 250k
2018: 6-7, buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.75 for losses, Bowl game played remaining buyout 13.85
2019: 8-5 buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.5 for losses, including UVA, bowl game played, remaining 9.95
2020: 5-6, buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.5 for losses, remaining buyout 5.95
2021: 3-4, 1.25 for losses, counting WVU, buyout currently 4.7. No more wins, and Fu owes 300k for his buyout.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
You missed the tongue in cheek aspect apparently. Buyouts are to protect a coach from being fired for poor performance, so there's zero chance you structure them to decrease when there is poor performance. You might as well take the clause out, and I'm not sure there's any P5 coaching job (unless they're a cellar dweller) that doesn't have a buyout clause. If we want to be competitive, we have to include something like this.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I really like the idea and creativity here, but the buyout clause really reflects the coach's leverage at the time of signing. There really isn't any reason to have a buyout that flexes like that. As a coach, either you have the leverage to get a higher buyout, or you don't and you're left with a less good buyout.
Incentives are more for bonus pay. I can't imagine a coach that would agree that success should increase job security when the success already gives you job security. If a coach is successful, he can use that leverage to seek out a new contract at another university or renegotiate the contract including buyout (like Fuente or Fisher) and get way more in return.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Well, we had a press conference today, and Fuente blamed execution, so Whit didn't do anything we recommended here. Game prep has started for GT, so unless he pulls the rug tomorrow, we have Fu for another week.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
sadly, this is likely the case. I would be shocked to see Fuente fired before season's end. I'd welcome it, but it would shock me.
What I am increasingly more worried about is whether he will be fired at all...only time will tell. This is either going to be a great Christmas for Hokies or a terrible one. Up to Whit to decide.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The absolute earliest I see Whit pulling the trigger is after the Duke game. The Coastal will be out of reach by then and Fuente can get to see his seniors out on Senior Day.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If VT had a suitable interim HC that likely makes the decision to fire him early but there doesn't seem to be one on staff.
Don't see Whit firing Fuente until November 28th.. Everyone knows Fuente is done at VT following this year. I would be shocked if he waits until December, there's a lot to lose and 2.5M isn't/shouldn't kill you as an AD.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I'm not sure that would be an issue, Fuente was given a 6th year when everyone thought he was gone last year. Whit has shown plenty of patience in dealing with this whole mess
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Is there a benefit to firing him now vs November 28th? I would think with an official opening Whit could be more free to talk terms with candidates, especially since there are/will be several competing openings this cycle. I think a mutual parting of ways, a la Orgeron and LSU would be ideal. But something tells me Fu wouldn't agree to that and a reduced buyout.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Almost everyone Whit would be interested in is still employed so there wouldn't be any public discussions anyway. If Whit has made his decision, he has already started reaching out to potential candidates' agents to gauge interest.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
If VT had a suitable interim HC that likely makes the decision to fire him early but there doesn't seem to be one on staff.
We have Teerlink, JC Price, Shibest, and Hamilton, along with Tenuta as an analyst. It's not like we're going to win the coastal now. Let the rest coach for their jobs.
I can say with certainty right now, there's a few recruits who want to know the coaching situation, and they don't want to wait 3 weeks before signing day.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Recruits aren't going to know if Smith remains on staff until a new permanent HC is hired and names/hires his own staff. An interim staff isn't going to help that.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Maybe we just hire someone else and clean out Fuente's office without telling him. Then when he says it was unprofessional to do it that way, we say it was well done but it was just execution. We're still working out the minutiae.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
His wife and kids aside, that comes with the territory.
If you don't want Twitter vitriol, people chanting for you to be fired, anonymous message board posters cursing your name etc. etc. don't coach sports at the big time level.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Fuente's wife knows what is going on because unless he is that damn tone deaf, Fu knows he's a dead man walking and my guess is its been a discussion at the dinner table.
66,000 can chant for me to lose my job and never need to work ever again and I'd let my wife know, "Hey, we're winning in this situation. Kids will be fine and we don't need to do a damn thing the rest of our lives." The wife and kids can take a few minutes of awkwardness. No one is wishing them dead or anything.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Except you don't get to that level of coaching without having a competitive drive and a love for trying to teach young people. We can debate how good he is at that.
Fu won't just ride off into the sunset. He may take a year or to off, do broadcasting or something like that, but he will end back on the sidelines again.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Firing Fuente now or in December doesn't really matter. It does nothing for this season and it won't change the support for next season. In January, people aren't going to care if Fu was fired tomorrow or December 16th as long as he isn't the coach. Don't blow $2.5m on emotion. That is money for a new coach, staff or other resources.
If I was Whit, I am reaching out to agents all over to gauge interest from candidates. Assembling the short list and getting ready for putting a new coach in place before Jan 1. (Unless that coach is still coaching for another week or 2). If I had a hunch, this is what is already happening behind the scenes. For those wanting a search firm for it, I am 100% against it. That is what we pay Whit for and he has made good to great hires everywhere else in the department. Fuente was regarded as a great hire at the time too but no one bats 1.000 . I have faith in him finding the right guy next.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
There is no way we can afford to wait until the buyout drops if we want to try and salvage our recruiting class, December 15th is also early signing day. If Whit is going to pull the trigger, he'll do so the day after UVA with an agreement in principle in place with a new coach.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Disagree entirely since those recruits could get out of their LOI or transfer without loss of eligibility if they sign and then coach gets fired. If we wait and fire him at the 15th with a new coach lined up, he has until Feb to recruit that class and more. Those kids aren't likely going to decommit and then sign on the line for another school that quickly if they weren't already going to jump ship.
It is no secret we do not have the budget of the blue bloods for hiring and firing people left and right. Why burn $2.5m to a guy you are firing over 2.5 weeks? We don't have a class of 5 stars we are hoping to hold on to. Only a few guys look like real difference makers and are likely sensible enough to hear the new coach out if they are still on board when Fuente is fired.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
The vast majority of recruits sign on/near early signing day now. If you wait until the 15th to fire Fuente, and hire a new coach, you're severely limiting the kids a new staff can try to recruit. The commits will have a good idea of whether Fuente will be gone or not, so it's not like by waiting you're going to have commits stay, because they don't have options elsewhere, which isn't cool any way. You're better off giving the new coach as much time to try and salvage the class as you can.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
It's not an early signing day. It's an early signing period that goes from the 15th to 17th. They just prefer to get the recruits to sign on the first day. And usually if they're going to sign, they do so on the first day.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Of the 358 prospects rated four stars or better in the 247Sports Composite, only 30 remain unsigned. That was for 2021 class. It's 10000% the new signing day with the scraps being picked up later.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
When you say "later," do you mean in February? I found an article that sounded like any new coach had a rough time during ESP but they jumped after the late signing period. It didn't go into how many recruits wound up signing with different schools, but based on how many schools and how much the recruiting classes jumped from after ESP to the late signing period, it sounded like the coaches were able to keep most of their recruits. Granted, the article was from 2018 and didn't see similar articles. So not sure if waiting is worth the $2.5M. Here's the link to the article.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
What coach is going to take a job when they won't even have a chance to try and salvage a recruiting class?
Buts its more than just a recruiting class, it's also the current players. How many jump in the portal because they are left in limbo for 2.5 weeks? It doesn't seem like a long time but there are a lot of moving pieces when it comes to that. A lot players may decide to make matters into their own hands vs leaving it to chance.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Current players will wait to see who the new coach is. They have no deadline. They can be in the portal in March and get a new team for spring practice if they want. They hold the cards in that situation.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Allow him time to find another job which then lowers the buyout as it should be offset by new employment
I don't think that is how it works if we fire him. Whit would have to settle with him to resign and negotiate a lower severance which he has no local reputation to worry about, like coach O. Get everything in place behind the scenes if you are Whit and once that $2.5m drop hits, fire him and have the next coach ready to go. Some of this will likely also depend if we get a bowl game or not, if he coaches it, if we have an interim coach, etc.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Firing him and him subsequently getting another job doesn't lower the buyout. He has to leave for another job directly from us. At least that's my understanding. Like if an employer gives a severance package, they don't call you up in a few months to see if you're employed again and ask for the money back.
Going over 85 scholarships should have only been for existing seniors/redshirt seniors who would have exhausted their eligibility last year. The 100 scholarship limit is a different thing - it looks like that's related to a new policy that would allow for increased class sizes to address departures from the transfer portal. Link here.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think in the case of a head coach of a football program, it's all spelled out specifically, and negotiated into that unique contract.
It's not comparable to a severance package, which is usually dictated by corporate policy, and often not contractually required. Severance packages are usually sort of a bribe to make you go quietly.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
It all comes down to language in the contract that's for sure.
"The most common is a duty to make a good-faith effort to find another job, with the income from that job offsetting the amount owed to the coach by the school that fired him."
Will get figured out in a few weeks that's for sure.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
JUGS I have heard his contract does not include offset language. So we could fire him on the 16th, he gets hired on the 17th, and we still owe him the full amount.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Like you, I'm concerned about the recruiting class, especially with the early signing period. I said somewhere on here recently that in the future, I'm guessing Whit will probably go early December for contract dates in case he needs to make a change again to take the early signing period into consideration. I think/hope that if recruits realize we're making a change, they'll wait and see who we name as a replacement before they bolt. That's why I think if Whit waits until the 16th, he'll make the announcement firing Fuente and announcing a new coach at the same time. And hopefully the new coach will be exciting enough for the recruits that they stick with Tech.
Having said that, I thought I remembered from previous contract discussions that we paid him the buyout if we fire him regardless of if he gets a job later. I wonder how often the offset language you're talking about is included in contracts and if it's more common like in the SEC where the buyouts are massive.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Something "interesting" happened just now... Been donating to VT since I graduated in mid 2000s and while I would get the standard calls + emails from my ticket reps a few times a year... This is the first time their communication to me went almost straight to "do you have any concerns" and not selling more/better tickets.
*shrugs*
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
I think it depends on who Fuentes replacement is, if we are hiring a coach that is currently employed, we wait til the end of the year to make that move.
If we are promoting from within I think the move should have been made already, give the last portion of the season to get the internal hire a chance to get his system in place.
If we are hiring a coach that is currently unemployed, it's doubtful our current assistants would stay on, can the new coach get a full assistant coaching staff in the middle of the season? Again, I think if we go this route we need to wait til the end of the season also.
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
First thing - I would fix HokieRif's internet. For some reason none of the major sports sites (e.g., TKP, ESPN) are showing any links or articles with content containing "Hokies Fire..."
Log in or register to post comments about the Virginia Tech Hokies
Comments
I would also hire someone willing to fire coordinators when they don't perform the job at the P5 level.
Throw in the towel on this season, fire Fuente, promote JHam to interim and officially begin looking for a new coaching staff, external only.
We are close to the point of no return for fan relations within the program. We keep this staff around, you're going to lose more in total donations and fan engagement than the $2.5m it will cost to fire Fuente today rather than December. Salvaging that relationship needs to be priority #1 right now and the best way to do that is to fire Fuente and Cornelson today.
^ This
Best case scenario is that we have already reached out to Napier or another head coaching candidate and the gears are already turning for us to get the next coach ramped up. To do this, we need to announce that we will be having a new head coach after this season.
To do that, we need to remove the current coach and have a coach in place so that the newly-hired coach, presumably currently at another school, can take his own time to work through the rest of the season. The obvious candidate for this is JHam.
In the event that we (1) absolutely need to get rid of Fuente today and (2) we don't have another head coach already lined up, then we may end up with JHam getting the interim tag for the rest of this year and possibly next year if we can't secure a preferred candidate.
So I agree with Alum, Fuente is out, JHam is the new head coach. He will preferably be keeping the seat warm for the next guy unless he launches us to greatness a la Dabo Swinney.
JHam as interim coach is just horrible and a disservice to him.
He's a talented but unproven DC. It's his second year and I think he's done a lot with a little and can really grow,...as a DC. He needs to be left in that capacity to develop. Moving him to HC could really hurt his development for this year and his future opportunities if he's not retained in the same capacity here, (DC).
Does anyone honestly think JHam gets another P5 DC shot if he's moved to HC of a team not likely to get another win this season?
If he stays at DC and we lose out with another interim but he puts together some good showings he can at least build up his resume.
He's had some rough games this season but he's got a shallow cupboard. On the flip side he's put together some decent schemes and halftime adjustments. We're way better this year than last and I would expect that trend to continue.
I agree and don't see Whit making a move with Fuente prior to December. This isn't just due to the reduction in buyout, but because there isn't someone on staff that could take over. That alone says a lot about where things stand. A key responsibility of a good leader is to grow those to take their place.
What is Jerry Kill doing these days?
I think he's still helping Patterson. He has health issues that forced him to step away from Minny a few years ago.
Also, I think it's much less likely that he stays as DC if he's promoted to Interim Head Coach for the remainder of the season. It's not good to keep a former HC on the roster on a lower-level position. Making JHam interim HC would all but ensure he's not at VT going forward.
Luke Fickell was interim for a year at OSU before Urban was hired, and he stayed on staff as DC for several more years. It's not entirely impossible.
So you want a guy whose Defense choked away two leads in three weeks to run the show? He can't even run a defense....unfortunately we're stuck with this mess for the rest of the season, simply because there's no one on staff who is capable of replacing Fuente, which in itself should be an indictment.
I just want to interject that maybe the DC ever had a few pretty bad years coaching for CJF. Maybe CJF is making some of the conservative defensive calls that cost us games.
Man conspiracies run rampant. You think Fuente who refuses to get more involved in the offense is now suddenly calling the defense secretly?
I would be surprised if the head coach is not involved in discussions with the coordinators during the game about how play the next series. Otherwise, what is he doing?
How many P5 coaches micromanage like that?
You pay your coordinators to have a gameplan and to call it. If you call it for them, you are wasting cash.
So, you don't think the head coach has any input at all during the game. I'll ask again. What is he doing during the game? If he's not involved in the flow of the game, I really don't know what he is doing.
Also, I think it's reasonable to assume Corn has more leeway than either Bud Foster or JHam have, just because CJF is more familiar with Corn. And in JHam's case, he is very new as a coordinator.
Man....that take is worse than one believing that Corn is a competent P5 OC.
Fuente is trying to be a hands off, non-micromanaging, CEO-type head coach, almost to a fault, because he probably needs to get a bit more hands on with the offense. But he's not getting more involved there. So, what in the world makes you think he's micromanaging the defense?
I guess I'm not making my point very well. I can't believe that a head coach does not have any input during the game. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never been on the sidelines to see what goes on. But, If I were the head coach, I would be talking to my coordinators during the game, discussing what is working and what is not and how do we want to play the next series. I would do this with DC when we were on O and with OC when we were on D. So, I agree he is not micromanaging the play calls; but I think he should be at least aware of if not involved in the decision of whether we play prevent or something else on D and how the O is going to manage ball control or aggressive O. And I do think Corn has always had more leeway than the DC just because of the long history with CJF. And Foster probably had more leeway than JHam has.
And, what makes you think he's not micromanaging both? Maybe the reason he defends Corn is that Corn is doing what he wants. We have ample evidence that CJF is not a good in-game coach.
If he was micromanaging, he wouldn't have called the suggestion that he take over playcalling as "ludicrous crap".
My respect for you just grew 10 sizes
As a short term band-aid to get us to the end of the season? Absolutely
I agree, the defense hasn't been great this year, and we've completely melted down the last few weeks. But Hamilton is a long time Hokie, the hand picked Bud-approved heir to the defensive game. It would be good PR to our football alumni to take care of a guy like Hamilton for a few games in a lost season.
As I also said, I want us hiring externally for our 2022 Head Coach. So Hamilton would only be a short term fix, but I wouldn't be opposed to giving him the reigns full-time if he proves himself overwhelmingly capable of being a head coach. Always have to leave that option open as well.
If they are exclusively looking exterior, there is no reason for Hamilton to accept that headache and bad record.
Agreed
I think that after last year it's pretty clear that Fuente needs to lose to UVA in order to be fired. That's out of Whit's hands unfortunately.
Dump Fuente and offer the interim job to whoever ponies up the buy out $$
If I'm Whit I'm firing Fuente now along with Corn, hiring someone on the staff to be an interim coach the rest of the season, then making massive moves. I'd hire the best available options and go all in on support staff and coordinators. People act like this money gets paid out of pocket for staffs and that's not the case. Alabama got a loan from a bank to pay for Sabans staff; when you invest like this, you will see returns. Whit has seen first hand this year that people still show up in droves for our games and spend money at the games. Put some money in the program, generate excitement, HAVE A SPRING GAME and meet and greet, and people will show up for a return on investment. So go all in and let's win! Get Napier on board with some great coordinators and let's take back the coastal
I'm def on the Napier train at this point.
Another poster brought this up but it depends on what leeway the contract allows. If the money is guaranteed and there's no room for demotion, etc... he has to let him go As soon as he can announce a replacement. And that needs to happen ASAP. Ideally with time before the early signing date.
He could also go the interim HC route with someone already on staff if he needs a bridge for continuity into the off season. But man that will not be great for the recruiting class.
Are you implying a scenario, ANY scenario, where Fuente is allowed to stay in town?
I think the point is demote him so we don't have to pay the $2.5M we'd save by waiting until Dec. 16th. And who knows, he'd probably be a better OC than Cornelson. But not sure that would sit well with the fans and the contract probably doesn't allow it anyway.
Correct. I'm just wondering out loud about room and appetite for negotiation.
ah... still, i can't see a scenario where that happens. Way too much pride for a head coach at this level, for any program, to take a demotion in order to stick around.
I mean I can think of 10 million reasons Fuente might be willing to take it. He could half ass the demoted job.
I think the point is demote him
So instead of full on break up, we just demote him to friend zone. Thought process is interesting but I've been in this scenario 100 times and it never works out. Always as the new friend, mind you.
I was just clarifying someone else's post. My guess is the contract doesn't allow for that, and Fuente and his agent would take that as intent to fire and just trying to save the $2.5M buyout and could probably (successfully) sue for the buyout. So I don't like, nor do I think demotion is feasible.
There is somebody on the staff who can serve as interim, be the bridge, and can maintain fan investment.
Jon Tenuta
This is exactly what I was going to post, but might also need him to be OC. Best is probably Tenuta at HC and calling plays from the both and let JHam handle the sidelines. Radio down for TO and challenges.
I could live with that for five games.
Clean house.
If we think offense is bad now wait until Hamilton is running both it and the defense. Overstep Fuente and fire Corn, 36 points against Cuse does not rectify the dog shit he's been pumping out the last 5 years. Agree to a public separation a la LSU and if Fuente won't agree fucking fire them all and watch us lose out. Next guy will have to build ground up but I'd rather watch a rebuild than recycled shit
I don't envy Whit's position. At this point, we all know how this ends, it's a matter of when. Ar this point, I just keep refreshing the timeline expecting to see the news.
My heart wants Whit to make the move yesterday, and relieve Fu and Corn of their duties, and give either Bud or JHam an interim position, and start the public search.
My head immediately then goes to how any of that gives us a fix in that interim period for this offense and defense.
Hokie football is truly at rock bottom.
At a certain point, it's not about this season anymore. The ACC is more wide open than it's been in a very long time and we are really not even close to challenging for it. We are struggling offensively and defensively against bad schools. Our decision making during games is poor. Top to bottom we are a complete mess, and eventually you just have to sometimes admit the solution is not currently employed.
I think this is where we are. There is no solution on staff right now that will fix what we have. So there is precious little we can do to salvage this season. So at that point, it's about making sure we are putting ourselves in the best position for 2022, and the one way we can do that now is to officially begin the transition by dismissing the head coach and OC today, to at least appease your stakeholders (fans).
I don't disagree with one single thing you said. But that's kind of where my head is at with all of this and the predicament at large. There is a duality and I want my cake and to eat it, too.
As an alumnus of VT, and fan/supporter of this football program, I want what is best for it both long term and short term. But just purely as a fan, I do want to see us win some more football games this season. I just wish the two weren't at odds with eachother.
1. Have the inevitable conversation with Fuente tomorrow (Monday) morning. Thank him for his time here and for always representing the university well (Fuente seems like a really good person). Communicate that it is time to move on.
2. Promote J'Ham as interim for the sake of letting the fans know that the "Hokie Family" is really important. Everyone knows he isn't ready for the Head Coach position, but he is a "family" man and as such the fans could likely get behind him for the rest of the season.
3. Hold a press conference to communicate the decision and to let the fans know that we need everyone's support now more than ever. Let's all work together to bring VT football back into the national conversation. Together we can all do this.
4. Obviously find a coach. I'm not sure a "sexy" hire is the way to go here. The expectations at Virginia Tech should not be the same as they are at a place like Alabama or Ohio State. The expectations should be that we are at the top of the Coastal division, always - that we regularly challenge Clemson for the ACC crown - that we find our way into the playoff conversation every few years. These are reasonable expectations. So finding a coach who can lay the groundwork for this kind of success is paramount. Who is that person?
Personally I think Dave Clawson is that person, a very safe, high floor - low ceiling hire. That isn't to say he can't bring us back into the national picture; I just think he won't make us Alabama. Dave Clawson has found success at every stop - he has P-5 experience - he's recruited this region (and the state of Va.) - he knows how to establish culture and develop players. If he can regularly get Beamer type of recruiting classes I have no doubts that we can be at the top of the Coastal and regularly challenge Clemson for the ACC.
It's a Mike Young type of hire for sure, but this is exactly the type of person who can succeed at VT the way VT should be succeeding in football.
Not sure how folks see a Clawson as a CMY like hire. CMY came from Wofford to ACC hoops. C Clawson is already head coach at an undefeated first place ACC program. Better program than ours, currently. Why would he make the move...
Well, Wake set out to be that program, now time for VT. And of Coure WF is the smallest school in D1
In 2013 A half-dozen of Wake Forest University's most influential and well-heeled donors sat in an Athens, Ga. restaurant after touring UGA contemplating the Demon Deacons' football future.
The linchpins are a $40 million Sutton Sports Performance Center, a four-level, 87,000-square-foot facility, and the $21 million McCreary Field House, an indoor practice building that the Deacons call the finest in the country.
Outside of football, a $12 million basketball player development and a $14 million baseball player development addition opened earlier this year. That doesn't include millions more for volleyball, field hockey, men's and women's soccer, and men's and women's golf, which enjoy an 18-acre practice area right on campus.
The 2011 Wake Forest Men's Tennis Team went 14-12 (5-6 in the ACC) and didn't make it out of the 2nd round in either postseason tournament. Now, just 7 years later wake forest won a tennis national championship.
The men's soccer team played in the national championship game in 2016
I mean it's also worth noting that Wake beat us in Cary in the College Cup on the way to them winning the 2007 men's soccer national championship, so it's not like they weren't already good in some areas before this all happened.
Sure, they were good. Thats a very VT way of thinking. Good.
From my post a few years ago on that good issue. What do these two guys want, this is what Hokies should have wanted and what we got living in the good zone
More than 10 years ago
This was Clemson's first Conference Championship Game since 1991, obviously it wasnt their last one since then.
One was living on the hype of 2009/2010 season while not adjusting to the new College football game/Recruiting. the other took that game as a further launching point. Knew the way to win and got the players
Like QB Tajh Boyd's, The sophomore quarterback threw three touchdown that game. But of course why didnt he come to Tech? He was Hampton, Va., native won state title in a game that was played at Lane Stadium. Virginia Tech offered Boyd a scholarship
Clemson did all of this as a non traditional football school with a budget and school similar to VT
Wake too
Salary to start, resources that can be offered for the program and his staff, long term potential for the job just to name a few.
It's worth having the conversation with him.
I may stop reading this thread here. I will also not post anything else out side of this reply. No need to. I think this is the best course of action. Well stated and thought out. Leg for you.
Okay, heck. You know I can't stop reading this thread, but I really like L4F's summation hits a lot of nails on the head.
I just don't get the Clawson love. He's basically having his one good year this year and then they'll go back to winning 4-6 games for the next couple years and then he'll have a season where he'll win 7 or 8 and the cycle repeats.
Earlier we move on from Fuente the better. Allows recruits not be blindsided and allows Whit to have plenty of time to do his due diligence on coaching search . You can't be last to the coaching search party .
Ultimately, dollars are going to factor. He has to balance current dollars with future dollars. If the people providing future dollars are saying it's time, it's time. To balance current dollars, you fire Fuente, Cornelson, and someone else. Williams is a low hanging fruit. You keep enough staff on to have a functional team for the remainder of the season.
But to keep the fan base somewhat engaged, you don't promote for the interim. Bring someone in that basically stands on the sidelines and draws attention. Obviously Beamer and Foster are the answers most fans will immediately run to. But a Vick (limited coaching experience) or Strock (more coaching experience) type hire is an option. All are guaranteed to "fail" from the standpoint of wins. But, they're splashy and maybe retain some of the disenfranchised fan base.
Hard disagree on this one. Programs do it all the time and fans stay engaged. Not to mention, in my mind promoting J'Ham does exactly this. He is a Hokie. I'm certain most Hokie fans/Alum would support him as the interim guy and be engaged as they know changes are being made.
Hamilton is trying to get his coaching career going. Making him interim for almost certain losses just makes for a rough start. And I can't say I'm confident he is ready anyway. If I can't say that, then why not one of the others?
Honestly, I wouldn't want the remainder of the season's record on anyone like Bud or Beamer either.
If it's just for the season, I don't think it matters what you do in the interim.
JHam would be fine. Though I think he has his hands full just with the defense. Which is why leaving Fuente in isn't such a horrible idea, either.
Hell Bruce Smith would probably do it for free
I genuinely don't know how you can roll Fuente out for another home game. We're at the point where the fan base has completely turned on him. If you were worried about the "optics" of firing a coach during covid last year and the "optics" of how fans were behaving earlier this season, you need to be worried about the optics of what this fanbase is going to do if they have to see him in the tunnel at Lane one more time - whether that's an empty stadium for a home game, vulgar chants directly at our HC, throwing things on the field, they're all damaging/bad looks and they're all unfortunately in play if Whit sits on his hands here. I'm not saying any of those things are a good thing but you can't keep him as the coach right now and then act surprised when any of those things happen at the Duke game in three weeks. You have to reel this fanbase back into a positive light and the only thing that's going to do that now is firing Fuente immediately.
It's going to be so bad. I have wanted to move from Fuente for years, but holy shit was that a bad look at the Cuse game. I think I would consider limiting student attendance to the game for Duke. Having that on TV is red alert and it's toxic to the players.
This is ok Whit for keeping him around so long, but now there is not an easy way to keep that ugliness from happening
Fire Fuente and make Cornelsen the head coach.
This GIF is a perfect response given what happens next.
If it keeps him from running the offense, I might agree.
Try to take the LSU route. Privately tell Fuente he is likely to be fired the day after his buyout drops and give him the opportunity to handle it with class; essentially giving him the opportunity to audition for his next job. If he blows up, cut him now.
If Fu is fired mid-season I'd make John Tenuta or even Shibest the interim before JHam. Let the Coordinators continue to do their jobs.
Secure money for the buyout, with firing planned the day after uva. Work with agents of coaches on your wishlist to gauge their interest...and have interviews lined up starting a day or two after the uva game. It would be great to have a replacement lined up ahead of time, but I don't think interviews would occur prior to the firing being publicly announced.
Secure money to greatly increase the size of our recruiting staff. The next coach is surely going to demand increased resources for recruiting...get ahead of that demand, and get it done. Shoulda been done a long time ago, anyways.
If Whit decided to fire Fuente now, I think Shibest is best option for interim coach.
Fire Fuente or he will continue to lose fan dollars/support.
I'm actually all for a fan boycott of the last home game...and I hate that idea for the players and program, but ultimately that may be the only way to drive the point "home".
I always wanted Fuente to be the next great coach at VT, but we need a coach that will instill confidence week in and week out. It's that "it" that Fu seems to never have found!
There were less fans there this game than last. I can only imagine how bare they will look for Duke.
In lieu of a real boycott, place cutouts in the stands that say #MakeTheMove in O&M.
I have already decided that I will not step back into Lane this season if Fuente is still head coach. Our tailgate has decided we are going to do our yearly Thanksgating thing in Lot 18 and some (most?) are just going to hang out at the tailgate and stuff ourselves on Thanksgiving food. I want the attendance of the Duke game to be so bad Whit 100% understands there is no option other than to fire Fuente.
I legitimately think Whit's standard for the program is 1) fans still showing up to games and 2) all is good as long as we are in the Coastal race. What an incredibly low bar we have fallen to. We're in the Coastal race every year until we aren't, and Fuente hasn't won it in five years now. I also think Whit is going to ride this out until the end of the year and will give Fuente every chance to turn this thing around.
Whit has been a great AD for basketball and non-revs. But I seriously think he has no clue regarding football. His big hire at Cincinnati (Tuberville) ended up being a disaster. They had better coaches before (Kelly, Jones) and after (Fickell).
I understand the frustration but I have full confidence that Whit understands that football is king at VT.
I don't believe that the current state of affairs we find ourselves in meets his standards. I believe Whit will take action and we will have a new head whistle this time next year.
Again I understand the frustration (and have had more than my fair share of frustration) however I believe Whit is a fine AD.
I think Whit's too savvy to have those type of standards, and this season is the perfect example. The home schedule was front loaded, so by the time the fanbase got antsy, we only have one game left. As for the Coastal race, the earliest we can be mathematically eliminated is the first weekend of November. Both of those factors are at the mercy of how the ACC made the schedule.
Negotiate a lower buyout for Fuente to be gone the Monday after the BC game ( with a game at noon in 6 days then BC on Friday I don't think you fire Today), promote Shibest to interim HC and announce search for new HC.
Call a huge very important press conference for Monday. Then talk about how great a job I think Mike Young is doing, not mention football at all. Then take questions from Twitter and answer them all like the football team is doesn't exist just to piss them off.
Fire Fuente and hire French
I mean my god at least force Fuente to fire Cornelson... and yes, I get that the defense struggled yesterday too, but do people forget that JHAM could be considered to be in "year 1" with all that's happened since he took over?
Cornelson has had 6 (SIX) years to produce and all we've done is regress and let some really good talent leave (shout out to HH and QP, among others).
At the very God damn least, force Cornelson out one way or another.
by Whit's math i think JHam is still in year -2
This. Lets keep JHams progress vs Cornelsons over time in context. JHam is making progress. Waller injured and then out was a big impact. We all know if Fuente goes the next HC will want his own DC and JHam is likely gone.
Criticism should be balanced.
The (probably) sad thing is, I think Fuente actually might just not have the balls to fire someone. And that maybe he is a good coach. He seems like a good person and knows his Xs and Os, so maybe he just doesn't have the sack to cut ties with someone who is his friend.
I really think the first move (now that I'm awake AND sober) is fire Cornelson. And the best thing that could happen for JF is to blow out the Bees. If he face plants over the next 2 weeks, then cut him too.
If its up to Fuente to get rid of someone you can bet he gets rid of JHam and keeps Corny. I'm good with Whit cleaning house.
You give it to him straight- Fire your buddy and you have 2 weeks to convince me to keep you past that 2 weeks.
Where does VT hire from and where does VT fit in as appealing among these possible other coaching openings
Both LSU and USC are top
Washington State already out looking
with Other schools in the same spot as us how does VT rank
Nebraska,South Florida, Miami,Syracuse, North Texas, Florida, West Virginia
And Duke, FSU, GT also not having to good of recent results
Can we hire Dino Babers, he's got a winning record at tech already, that 2016 game was just as painful
Serious question. With the big buyout and increased support and recruiting staff any good coach will demand, where is the $$ coming from?? Not to mention salary for the new coach and assistants??
ACC network mo... oh, wait.
But seriously, I think the buyout money was there last year. And I'd bet Whit has been holding back on the staff budget since at least the Baylor fiasco.
Money was good to go last year according to people in the know .
Yeah. Scuttlebutt is they couldn't get who they wanted last year so they punted. Unfortunately it's not a more attractive opportunity a year later.
Contract payouts are not all the $$$ at once.
There are 66,000 fans at the game, and night sold out games are more intense. And VT sells a $9 beer
So if half the fans bought at least 2 beers every quarter, 8 beers a game for half the fan base is 270,000 beers at $9 is more than $2 million at 2 night games is more than $4 million. 2 other games had to be close to a million and 3 other games pulled in another million.
Thats $7 million.
Drink Beer for a new coach?
Make it a fundraiser for the Duke game since attendence will be lower to hit our numbers
This is why you don't wait to fire him. The buyout might be bad, but the revenue losses from a fanbase in revolt that doesn't bother to show up for a home game is potentially far worse.
In all seriousness (and please don't flame me for this) -- I know the situation Fuente inherited is nowhere near as bad as the one CFB inherited, but I can't help but draw some parallels between the two coaches.
In year 6:
I know it isn't a choice anybody wants, but is anyone willing to give Fuente another year, provided he makes key staff changes?
I know Fuente was hired because he was allegedly a "great coach" and our program had enough stature to command a great one -- but what if he wasn't and Whit knew that he'd need some time to develop?
It's clear to me that the players seem to play hard for Fuente, but that he is let down by lack of player development and scheme design. These are normally things that a coach should course correct quickly (and make staff changes accordingly), but it seems that Fuente is too loyal to his friends.
If anyone cares to read, I found this article from the Chicago Tribune written prior to the 2000 BCS NCG. Dave Braine didn't think Frank Beamer was a great coach when he was hired, but always thought he could be one. Frank Beamer thought that he wasn't one of those guys that had everything figured out at the beginning.
I realize that today nobody has same kind of patience they had 30 years ago, but it seems in Whit's eyes, Fuente has done enough to last this long.
Here are some things I'm thinking about:
Just some thoughts -- I want this program to succeed as much as anybody here, but I don't want us to rush into a mistake.
I think you make some excellent points.
The Syracuse game was a dagger to the heart, though, so it's pretty hard to be objective.
Particularly as you see Wake, Pitt, and UVa having success.
I don't know what the timing is, but we have to do what's best in the long term.
I posted this near the end of the vent thread, but it's relevant here....
Above all else, Cornelsen needs to go. Seeing as how he's also the QB coach and they suck too, it's not even a case of someone being promoted one step too high.
I might be willing to keep Fuente around if he makes that change. Unfortunately for him, he will have a very short leash even if he makes that move. If he had done so at any point in the last 3 years, I'm sure folks would have been more forgiving.
But if the only way to can Corn is to cut Fuente loose, then both of them need to go.
Fully agree -- I think staff changes at a minimum need to be made.
I don't think the QBs and WRs have developed at all.
It doesn't help when you see Hendon Hooker doing really well at Tennessee and making plays that he never made consistently at VT.
It also doesn't help that it seems like our WRs don't get open consistently to have sustained success in the passing game. It is especially frustrating when you hear promising things about players like Jaden Payoute and Dallan Wright, only for them to never make a notable contribution. WR development hasn't happened since Holmon Wiggins left.
Undecided on the RBs -- new RBs coach seems to be better than Zohn Burden, but I don't know why it took them this long to give a different RB else a chance until yesterday. I really respect Jalen Holston for sticking it out here, but it just doesn't seem like he is the guy.
If Fuente refuses to make any changes, then he absolutely must go. If he thinks making a change is "ludicrous", and expects things to get better as is, then he is insane.
I mean, Beamer saved his job after the '92 2-8-1 shitshow by replacing both his coordinators. And I imagine he was expected to turn things around pretty quickly or he'd have been cut too. If Fuente want the same chance then he needs to show the same willingness to make major staff changes that Beamer did 30 years ago. If Corny is still on staff at the end of the year I'm done.
those changes were past-due in 2019. especially on offense.
Same, I'll be done too if Fuente gets another year and no staff changes are made.
I'll be done with Whit if Fuente gets another year and isn't fired after a sub-part start (i.e. like the one we have now)
Football has changed so much that you can't compare their career paths.
What you can look at is accomplishments and Fuente has made all the wrong kind of history;
Bowl streak
Commonwealth Cup
Home beatings
Black Diamond
Liberty
ODU
Looking at our third losing season in the last four and he's been here six years. I feel like I probably left a couple of things out as well.
It just didn't work. He'll benefit from this experience and maybe be a good coach elsewhere.
Other Fuente accomplishments:
-1 Bowl Win (which was very much in doubt, that first half)
-1 Coastal Title (also in 2016)
That's it. The evidence is overwhelmingly poor for him as our Head Football Coach.
To the article's point we are really only a handful of plays away from being 6-1... we're also a handful of plays away from being 1-6.
Nope. There are huge differences.
CFB took over a team which had not had much success and turned it into a recurring conference champion. He inherited a true dumpster fire from Dooley and had recruiting sanctions. His first 2 classes were 15-17 players instead of 30. Even back in the 80's, recruiting matters!!! He started bringing in better talent and then swapped coordinators and the rest is history.
Fuente inherited a top-25 team which was the #1 in Virginia (as opposed to second fiddle to George Welsh UVA). He's recruited poorly. He's alienated people with his standoffish approach. He's done the bare minimum.
I was at VT in the Beamer years and there are some parallels but even those are different. Beamer's early teams blew games where they'd get a lead against a superior opponent and then fade in the second half. But that seemed to be talent and depth hurting us. You had the feeling if we had the numbers then we could beat a FSU or whoever. But with Fuente, it just comes down to being gutless and playing not to lose. Failing to score TDs time and time again with first and goal vs WVU. Not getting a first down yesterday. Blowing a similar lead versus Notre Dame. We currently have no sanctions. When we lose it is because of recruiting and coaching.
Dooley had actually made some progress with VT football. He'd put it on the map, even if he cut a few corners to do it. He proved that VT football could be relevant.
Beamer was hampered in terms of recruiting, but VT football had had a number one NFL draft pick, had been to three bowl games, had won the peach bowl (and had a 10 win season) under Dooley. Beamer was able to make a pretty compelling case there for VT football, and had the support of the VT administration.
So while Beamer was restricted by sanctions, and huge challenges, there was some reason for hope. People had taken notice of VT football. And there was some good justification to cut him some slack on his rebuild, which the VT AD did. After that, Beamer was ridiculously successful at building a solid team and winning games. But the game was changing by the time he retired.
I'm not saying we should keep Fuente, but we should keep our perspective on the challenge he faced in replacing a legend. He was facing a pretty major rebuild
Beamer was restricted by being a head coach.
Bill Dooley was the Athletic Director.
It was a fascinating time in VT history, to be sure. But this is a terrible example to use in strictly coaching discussions going forward.
This is a good point. No disrespect intended to those discussing Beamer, Dooley etc. but College Football in 1987 =/= College Football in 2021.
There's just no comparing the situations.
Fuente is a lame duck coach at this point. Whit is running a search behind the scenes already. The only question is do you fire Fuente now or in 6 weeks?
To answer this, Whit needs to check in with the players - The season might be a lost cause for fans, but what about for the players? Do they feel like they have something to play for? Is the locker room toxic or does the team feel like they're in this together? If the latter, let Fuente coach out the season. If the former, fire him now.
At this point, The least Whit can do is try to make this season as enjoyable as possible for the players.
EDIT: correcting 2 words
When the AD gets to the "check in with the players" meeting, the decisions and actions have already taken place, and he's letting them know that.
There's long term decisions, and short term. Fuente will be replaced this season - that much clear. The question is when IMO. Take some input from the players here. That's all I'm saying.
If you've watched any games at all this season, it's pretty clear the players are still playing to win.
I'm seeing apathy from fans, but not from the players. Now that could quickly change if the fans start booing them at home, and Whit voices a lack of confidence by by-passing the coaches and having meetings with the players.
But it is interesting these days how people try to shortcut issues by saying "What about the children?"
RUN FOR THE HILLS, FASTER THAN YOU HAVE EVER RUN BEFORE!!!
/s
Honestly, I'm wondering if Whit might also have to worry about his job security, too. There is so much that seems wrong with the athletic department's foundation. Poor fundraising, poor season ticket sales, poor outreach to athletic alumni, and we can add in ridiculous student behavior in Lane Stadium.
I think there just needs new leadership and fresh thinking, starting at the top.
Edited to add that Whit should have let Fuente go after the disastrous 2018 season where it became known that players were trying to lose on purpose along with allowing that ESPN article getting published.
Whit just got extended.
And the question there is a lot like coaching: "Is this going in the right direction?"
With Whit, there's a pretty strong argument that it is.
My feeling is that he's one of the best ADs in the business. I've been impressed with most of his choices INCLUDING Fuente (at his time of hire). So while he's being tested here, I have faith that any changes he makes will be pretty optimal.
Most of that is chalked up to two things: the football team sucking, and COVID.
If we can right the ship for football, the ticket sales will improve. Fundraising will also improve as the team improves.
And fundraising across the board? I feel like they're slowly working on improving it, but keep running into roadblocks. Some they can control (like poor performance), and some they can't (pandemic and economy).
Student behavior? That's a problem larger than the athletic department, and not exclusive to VT.
I think at the very least Whit owes the fan base an apology for his decision to stick with Fuente & staff while overseeing the downfall of a once proud program. A shakeup with the staff should have already happened but that's more on Fuente than the AD. He needs a slam dunk hire or the perception becomes Whit doesn't understand the importance of football at VT.
Fuente was considered a home run at the time. Almost every other sport has improved and he has made some great hires including 2 in men's hoops. Whit is a top 8-10 AD in the country.
I don't feel like a top 8-10 AD in the country goes on record with this quote: "Our offense, from people you would know, is very well thought of,. "We have a quarterback you can win with, we've regained some of our identity on offense...what we've not done a good job of is dehumanizing Brad Cornelsen."
He was absolutely not a home run. There is so much revionism going on over his hire.
more like a ball that made a great sound coming off the bat and looked like it had a real chance to leave the park but just kept hooking and hooking and ended up going foul 3/4 of the way through the flight
but there is nothing revisionist about saying he was "considered a home run at the time" which is what most folks are saying. Everyone lauded the hire and the smooth transition from Beamer to Fuente. To argue that anyone back then could see this coming would be revisionist
What schools did we beat for him?
Whit doesn't owe the fan base an apology.
He owes them his best judgment and action in terms of moving forward.
If he wants my money/season ticket renewal, he owes me an explanation/apology of that fucked up press conference. If he doesn't fine, I'm just barely a golden Hokie at 28 so I'm sure I don't matter according to him.
Doubt I'm the only one considering not renewing
If his bosses pulled the plug on firing Fu last December, Whit is not going to give any explanation for what happened last year.
Then his bosses lose my money
Bad take
Try to include wins and recruiting success into the next HC contract as a performance metric and buyout contingency
You can put in anything you want, but remember, you're trying to ATTRACT a coach. Your contract with him is competing with the other teams who want him.
This is why you have ridiculous buy out clauses.
Why I said "try"
Either way, hopefully Whit and the AD contracts people have all gotten savvier in the past few years.
If you're negotiating a contract terms, youve already attracted them to a significant degree
Schools aren't giving those big buy-out clauses because they want to.
And you can in-attract them in a hurry if your contract sucks/becomes obvious that your terms are going to be far less favorable compared to other schools.
I love the idea of tying a "buyout clause" with success, but the whole point of that clause to protect the coach when he does get fired. He only gets fired (without cause) for lack of success.
While I'm sure the AD would like to have their cake and eat it too, there is no coach (and agent representing a coach) that would agree to a buyout that is nullified for lack of success.
And regarding performance metrics, wins and accomplishments are already included within the compensation package (mostly as bonuses). Recruiting success was not included, but there is a risk that including such a compensation can encourage undesirable recruiting practices that the VT AD would not like to encourage.
Yeah, but if a coach believes in themselves, wouldn't they like a buyout that could get bigger based on successes as well?
NVM...
Don't pay any attention to this troll account.
It's clearly not someone reputable and is probably run by the same clown as WalterKFriedman.
We need to nip this in the bud, again. Anything that mentions Friedman can be ignored.
https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2020/december/7/regarding-w-keith-fri...
1. It's a troll account 2. It doesn't even make sense, there would be no "interim" coach if we wait for Dec 16 unless the delayed buyout is some side deal worked out with Fuente
WalterKFriedman is a fictional account who uses pictures from sports reporters halfway across the country to appear professional.
He is not nor ever will be a credible source. It's literally fabricated garbage.
Thread from last year on this scam artist
He is not nor ever will be a credible source. It's literally fabricated garbage.
So basically most of the "sauces" on this website?
Exactly.
Funny thing is, the current profile picture is a completely different guy than last year's!
The dude would have been better off creating a new account after getting called out when someone found out the real identity of the original profile picture.
Information is only as good as it's source, so know your sources.
He should clean house and hire the Blacksburg high school coaching staff in the interim to finish out the season. Then start fresh with all new coaches not associated with this program. Whole new leaf. What will he do? Based on last year's press conference Jack and his best friend...
If u go the high school route, its clearly christiansburg. Theyre rolling.
Lol, I have no clue about either but I am pretty sure most peewee coaches could do as well or better as the current staff
Start making moves ASAP. Hopefully he's been backchanneling already, but if he hasn't, he needs to start doing that too. Not sure about JHam, but the whole offensive side of the ball and Fuente need to go.
If Whit retains everyone, I don't care who's calling the shots, we need to start having a serious conversation about his job too
I seem to remember Whit saying he "always has a list".
I think he's a guy who always stays connected with the possibilities. Given the overall situation with VT football, I feel certain he's having some conversations, even if he hasn't made a final decision.
You fire Fuente now and install an Interim for the rest of the year. JHam would be my choice because I believe he has the respect of and can relate to the players.
Despite how bad things appear, there are still things to play for--a bowl bid being one of them. With as mediocre as the ACC is this year, we have a reasonable chance (though will probably be underdogs vs. all but Duke) vs. everyone left on the schedule.
Recruting will be what it will...in either case (fire vs. wait til 12/16), I think we are gonna have a very bumpy road to ESD.
Make a statement. Play hard and make a Bowl and move on. No more of this substandard, tone-deaf, incompetent, and nepotistic shit.
So, if money is truly a problem, I can see Sands saying fuck it, keep him another year.
But for Whit, that would mean stepping over the HC role to update the offensive staff. That's the only way I see Fuente staying. Make the necessary staff changes to get over the 8 win ceiling.
Otherwise, write the pink slip now, and call it a day.
Keeping him another year will actually COST more money - not save any. The fans are pissed, the team stinks and the assistants are going to shop themselves to other schools cause Fu is a lame duck. Thus costing you more for new assistants anyway. Trying to salvage a 35th ranked recruiting class isn't close to worth it.
Give Fuente a six year $50 million extension. Name Corny lifetime head coach in waiting
At this point I start my coaching search in earnest - including new coordinators . I'm making calls and getting everything lined up. I'm asking Sands for a top 5 ACC football budget with the new staff. And I'm signing an agreement in principal with the new coach and firing Fu the moment the buy out drops.
You had me right up until waiting for the buyout to drop. Isn't that basically right at early signing day? I don't think we can afford to wait that long, let's give the new coach a couple weeks to speak with recruits/families, and hopefully salvage some of this signing class
I agree with all of this, save for waiting for the buyout to drop. Rip off the bandaid, and do it right at the end of the season. Don't wait 2.5 weeks for this. The day after UVA, announce the firing and the hiring, and get to work on recruiting/retaining the commits.
No more project hires. If there were/are alumni willing to put out the money to get FU gone, I am sure the same would pony up to get a real coach. G5 success does but always translate to P5 success. Out loud WE ARE NOT A G5 PROGRAM.
Every hire is a project hire at this level.
So there are no coaches out there with P5 or NFL experience for us to hire? By project hire I mean unproven above G5.
Who is this mythical coach?
Cutcliffe and Brown are the only 2 coaches in ACC with previous P5 HC positions.
Sark is only one in Big 12.
The Big Ten is better with Bielema, Harbaugh, Franklin, Chryst, and Schiano. But Franklin was really the only one that came from a successful situation. The rest had failed prior to being hired.
The Pac 12 only has Karl Dorell, who failed pretty bad at UCLA and Chip Kelly.
SEC has Saban, Mullen, Fisher, Leach, Kiffin, and Oregeron which two of them are mixed bags prior.
It really all looks like a gamble no matter who you are.
https://247sports.com/Article/Virginia-Tech-coach-Justin-Fuente-fires-ba...
A good refresher on what What said back in December. Strong reminder that even with the performance, I don't think we are going to see a coaching change until the end of the season. Even stronger reminder that Whit at least gave lip service to how he understands Fuente's approach, and that he believes in it... that said, he HAS to fire at least one assistant, and recognize that both sides of the ball need change.
While I hope we for Fuente, I want the game review to single out every single hold on that last drive that wasn't called. I am goddamn salty...
.
Also fire Fuente, the game should never be that close.
Yeah, there was rampant holding being allowed.
I was screaming at the TV. If I could see it, the refs on the field should have been able to. It was happening earlier in the game as well, but it was ridiculous at the end.
I had to listen on the radio and am pretty sure even I saw it
It's been that way for years in the ACC. It's just bad.
I was off the Fuente train a couple of years ago, when we first started bleeding starters to the portal, and definitely after the SI article. I hoped Whit would fire him last December.
That being said, there's some serious overreactions here. We're 3-4, not 1-6. While I think it's likely we finish 4-8, technically if we win out (insert laugh track) we'd finish no lower than 2nd in the Coastal.
Fuente is almost certainly gone after this year, but there's absolutely no advantage to firing him mid-season. That's not going to save the season, and it would be a red flag for any incoming new head coach.
Appeasing the mob. That's the advantage.
I don't think it would be a red flag - we kept him 3 years from when he started showing poor performance. That shows potential coaches we have more patience than a LOT of other schools.
Fuente and Corn have to go. I think we all agree on that. I wish things had worked out better for Fu and I think he's a good person. Really Corn probably is too. It just didnt work. I dont think is from a lack of trying.....sometimes despite everyones best efforts, the parts just dont mesh right for everything to become more than the sum of the individual parts. I love VT...not just VT football...and Fu and Corn have represented us well as good people....its just not working to build a culture and identity that is going to sustain this football program. That said, i think JHam has great potential.....just not as a HC yet. FFS hes just getting his feet wet as a DC and making him interim HC will probably derail his growth in that role. Plus a new coach will probably not retain him anyway, so why not let JHam continue to audition for a DC job somewhere else? I feel like we owe him that...the guy bleeds O&M and we should do everything we can to set him up for another job as DC somewhere else if its not gonna be here. We need to let Fu and Corn go now in order to be ahead of other teams in a coaching search before the end of the season. I think thats clear or else we are going to have to 'settle' for scraps of this years offseason coaching pool. So that said, who could we have steer the ship as an interim for the rest of the year? Some people have suggested Bud. Thats not happening. He retired for his health. For real. Not like Urban Meyer bullshit. This game almost killed him. But.....I dont know if anyone else has said ths.......what about Frank? He's right here in town. If Whit approcahed him and asked him to just steer the ship for 6 games, and it was CLEAR that that is all that Frank was going to do, and go back to walking Hank around campus ever day...would Frank do it? I bet hed do it for free cause he loves VT so much. He'd have no pressure to succed or have to worry about what happens at the end of the season. The only question would be who we make OC. Shibest? Vice? French? Fuck....make Hank OC. What have we got to lose?
I totally get not making JHam the interim coach. It would probably hurt his career in the long run more than it could possibly help.
But there's been a bunch of ideas floated around here to bring back Bud or Frank. Has there ever been a case of a head coach getting fired midseason and an interim getting named from the outside?
Teerlinck or Tenuta make more since if you are going to blow it up. Give Hamilton more time to get expierence. Even JC Price makes more sense as HC as he has been a co-dc at least. And is a great ambassador for VT.
Teerlinck can go back to the NFL, JC Price has had a long career and will easily get picked up by some staff. Tenuta might just stay in Blacksburg until his son leaves. But he doesn't need any help for his next job. However, Hamilton, Tyler, and Smith (to a lesser extent) need to show what they can do because they don't have the resume yet. And I think highly of all 3. I think highly of our entire defensive staff, they are just green and learning.
> Has there ever been a case of a head coach getting fired midseason and an interim getting named from the outside?
Depends on whether you consider a bowl game as "in season", but Barry Alvarez.
Not really. Lots of coaching changes happen between the end of the regular season and bowl games.
The closest example I can think of was the 1 year of Jim Grobe at Baylor. He was a 1 season hire due to the clusterfuck at Baylor. But that wasn't mid season.
Our Interim Head Coach is hiding in plain sight on the sidelines; Bruce MF Smith.
/s (maybe)
a True Sacksburg in the making?
If I'm Whit Babcock, I'd be blowing up Sands' phone until I get approval to spend the buyout money on a buyout, or...
I pull the trigger, and get fired for insubordination. Let Sands be the bad guy.
If you are venting on this thread, please let Sands know that a poor football program is directly linked to poor alumni engagement, less dollars for the university, fewer admissions, etc. Email him. Leave him a voicemail. Tweet. Don't care how it's done, do it. Make our voices heard.
And no, Sands does not give one flying fuck about our beloved football program. That has been made very clear this season.
If I'm Whit I am calling Sands and forcing discussion on the buyout and the next budget for staff. If I don't like anything I hear or think I am getting fed some bullshit, I'm making some calls and taking my talents elsewhere.
So Sands gave Whit a new contract with all sorts of new performance incentives specifically for football, but he doesn't care at all?
Speculating, but I think 'football matters' is something Sands learned the hard way. I don't think he understood it when he got here. I'm sure at some point donors said they would stop donating to main campus until football was sorted out.Whelp - my speculation was wrong. Thanks for the info Guitarman
We had a record-breaking year in terms of donations to the university. While I'm sure there are some people who are upset about some thing or another, giving has risen basically every year under President Sands.
https://vtx.vt.edu/articles/2021/08/univrel-fy21results.html
I will stipulate, of course, that several large gifts for specific purposes were given last year, some of which went to the Innovation Campus, but the university's financial position is rather good at this point and donations continue to increase year after year.
I'll also state that I'm not one who believes too much in the "Sands doesn't care about football" narrative. I have my reasons for that, some of which is confidential information and I'm not going to elaborate here. He realizes the importance of football, and VT athletics in general. And it is not some recent revelation or begrudging shift in position.
I have seen far too many anti-Sands posts, none of which provide any logical or coherent thoughts as to *why* they have a beef with him.
It's usually some nonsense around him not caring about football, moving the main VT campus to NOVA (lol), or some other such drivel.
I will start this by saying I didn't go to Virginia Tech, so I feel as my opinion doesn't weigh as much. With that said my industry works closely with Virginia Tech and has donated heavily to specific areas of the college. So much so that the old dairy on campus was funded by the Virginia dairy association in the early 2000's and in 2006 they decided to change everything and move the dairy complex and selling the equipment (less than 6 years of use on dairy equipment is nothing) funded by the association. So while some of that drivel may seem small pebbles, to some people it's not. While not all of that is Sands, he's the face of the college right now.
Sands was not the President in 2006.
The university has remained committed to VT football the whole time Sands has been at VT, so I'm not sure why you would speculate that.
I don't agree with what Sands is doing in terms of growth, but I don't think he's unaware of the importance of the football program at VT.
Not to defend CJF, but I think he has a better case for execution being the problem with the Syracuse game than has been reasonable for most games we have lost. But it's still his job to prepare his players to execute and to put them in situations that they can execute.
Permanently reinstate stick it in.
I humbly submit my candidacy for HC.
Experience:
I played NCAA with my roommates a couple times back in 2011
Fire Fuente and hire TKP as interim coach. We can call plays the same way they did Twitch Plays Pokemon. With any luck we might be able to beat Duke and UVa.
I try and lock down the successor in back channels before announcing anything. When it's public that Fu is officially out, the many other teams also likely looking for a new HC will scramble that much harder.
Once the new big whistle is locked in, CJF announces his resignation and the team does decently the rest of the season, pressure is off CJF and they just have fun playing football the rest of the season.
Good plan. Try to negotiate a mutual agreement with Fu that he finishes the season, and then receives his $7.5M buyout, or the lowest we can get it to. Have him announce, now, that he'll step down after uVA game, and start the new coaching search on the up and up, after Fu resignation is announced. Hope is that Fu wants out as much as we want him out. Big question is how much jack, and then how do we do it better than the UofTennessee does their coaching changes.
So I'll be the dissenting voice and say Fu stays through the uva game. VT is not a cut throat SEC school that does mid-year firings based on performance. It's not the culture we want and won't help us attract his replacement.
If I'm Whit, I publicly endorse the team and the players for another tough loss, highlighting that we are 3 plays (and maybe 25 seconds) away from being 6-1. And encourage the fans to rally behind these young players as a break through is imminent (yadadada....).
I also get final approval from the BoV and President Sands to release Fuente at the end of the season and officially begin to recruit his replacement. His call whether he lets Fu know or not, to let him find his next role or negotiates the buy out.
Similar to the Beamer transition, Whit needs to have the new guy in line immediately so there is no uncertainty for the current players or recruits. Treat this professionally knowing there will be a huge turn over in coaches this year to make up from last season. Remove all barriers to be as prepared and competitive to go get his guy.
This season is lost - canning Fu now won't change that. Take the high road to make VT more appealing for the next guy. JHam is out regardless after this year - too young for HC or hold over for new guy. He's the biggest loser here but should bounce back quickly.
Good perspective, and always wise to take the high road. I would say that this is double-edged... a top tier coach (and top recruits) wants to know they have support of the administration AND a culture that is focused on winning. Waiting until season's end, or giving off the impression that we waited, puts a question mark on that winning culture.
Pack a sling full of ice tigers and go wade the New at McCoy Falls swinging flies for Smallmouth Bass and watch sorority girls float by in tubes. The answer will come, I can assure you, Whit.
Whit has two massive red marks on his name. Signing the terrible Nike deal, and offering Fuente a contract extension with the absurd buy out we all know too well.
Yes, he hired Mike Young and made strides in Olympic sports, but I hope he's learned something about contracts
You're absolutely correct that the Fuente extension was WAY premature. He accomplished nothing to deserve it and actually displayed negative traits that spoke against it.
The timing with the buyout was horrible. Jimbo had left FSU and they allegedly come sniffing around Fuente, and it was hard not to worry some after what seemed like he was getting us back on track with 10- and 9-win seasons in 2016 and 2017. Obviously now those were fools gold with a roster of Beamer's players. I think Whit was right in doing something at the time to fend off interest from others, but I do think the terms were extremely one-sided and gave Fuente all the leverage. I think coming to terms with firing Fu is going to be tough for Whit. It was a big hire for him, and VT spent considerable effort framing Fu as the ideal successor to Frank, trying to emphasize his fit with the program and forge some sort of relationship between the two coaches. Obviously it has turned out to be a train wreck. This program absolutely has to get away from the mentality of finding the next Beamer. Hire the candidate who can recruit talent back to this program and coach at a high level. Whether they stay 10 years or only a few is irrelevant. Don't try to force some contrived narrative about them being the next Beamer. Let them go win ballgames.
Not based on facts known at the time it wasn't. . Better terms maybe but timing was tough.
Demand Fu to fire Corn today or Witt do it himself (this will be an immediate move for fans/alumni to see an actionable item from athletic to demonstrate they know the seriousness of the issues)
Pull a page from the LSU playbook and announce now that Fu and VT will be parting ways at the end of the season. This gives Fu more time also to figure out what/where/when he lands as he has young kids in school, wife to think about relocation during the holiday season. Take the opportunity in that presser to mention all the positives for Fu (good man, runs clean program, loyal, etc) so we don't appear salty. Everything is then on the up and up with all parties and VT doesn't appear to be sneaky or cut throat. Make the parting as friendly as possible to try and retain goodwill with recruits and current players who played for him. Minimize the drama at all cost and don't appear like a crappy employer.
Let Fu continue this season as the head coach and OC in place of Corn. Dump of any responsibilities that Fu doesn't have time for now that he is also OC to Shibest or Tenuta. This also gives Fu time to possibly prove his OC abilities for a future employer. This also gives JHam more time to improve his DC resume for a future job. It's least disruptive to current staff.
Reach out to Sands and BOV for new football budget that puts us in top 4 of ACC and start working his way down his list of candidates.
This would be both a short term fix and longer term solution that fans/alumni and other VT supporters can see, feel and support.
I keep refreshing this site waiting for one of you all to break news to me today.
Highly doubt it happens. The media availability is still the same this week and it just doesn't make that much sense to fire him now.
My dreams...
Technically speaking....we could still win the ACC Coastal, technically
The alternative is rooting against VT. I will never root against VT.
I'm still pulling for these kids. Even if that means we somehow end up in Charlotte against Wake Forest. Whether a new head coach shows up or not, I will always support VT.
Me, too.
But I'm just happy if we win some more games at this point.
Breaking News: Tech Fires Head Coach!!!
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1452687168477044740
Give French a $1,000,000 cash buyout. I think that would take the heat off.
I'll settle for 10,000 and be happy.
Lifetime membership in cheese of the month club is the best we can do.
Rick Harrison has entered the chat.
"I got a guy who's a buyout expert. Let me get him on the line and he'll be down here shortly."
Damnit man.
Sorry, man. You heard what my expert said. It's not about what you think your work is worth. It's about market value and us being able to get something on resale.
That's super /S, French. You know you're worth at least a lifetime supply of Pal's.
I park my very expensive car in my designated parking spot next to Jamerson. I take a nice early Fall stroll across the most beautiful college campus in the world. I walk up the steps of Burruss Hall, and make my way directly to Tim Sands' office. I proceed to demand we open the checkbook and to allow us to make the moves that allow our football program to prosper, thereby building the image of the university the world over. I throw a hissy fit until I get exactly what I came looking for.
I go back to Jamerson. I place a single "For Sale" yard sign outside of Justin Fuente's door with a sticky note that says "We need to talk. Love, Whit".
I have a very difficult conversation with a very decent man whom I respect but need to part ways with.
Then, I pick up my handy dandy iPhone that Virginia Tech pays for and I call Luke Fickell and say "Say a number"
Quick lesson in university finance. The core university budget and that of the athletic department are separate, by law. VT pays a tiny portion of Fuente's salary and gives him some official title like "professional lecturer" (this is what Beamer was) and every other penny paid to him comes from athletics. Under your scenario, Sands looks at Whit and says, "fine, if you can pay for it. It's your checkbook."
any legal issues with VT acting as a hard-money lender to the Athletic Department?
Typically yes, VTs money normally considered state funds, even the endowments, which is kind of wierd.
The Athletic Department is largely donor funds or its own money from tickets, etc.
So in lots of cases this would be misuse of state money.
SIDE NOTE: before the arms race, VT athletics used to give back to the university. They basically payed for the library.
Loans are possible under very limited circumstances but anything that involves E&G (education and general operating) funds that come from the state becomes very precarious. I know for a fact Sands will not make such a loan, nor should he as it is legally dicey if not outright illegal. Most other funds the university has access to are for dedicated purposes, and while you can do some creative accounting and things like debt restructuring, it's basically not something that the BOV will approve of.
I would have to imagine the Athletic Dept itself would be able to get a loan for $2.5M if that's the sticking point.
The terms may not be great, and there are oversight channels that have to be satisfied to take out another loan. The athletic department is in a weird place of having to finance itself (mostly) but it's also subject to university approval for things like that. Also, keep in mind that (while I haven't seen the current numbers and won't until after the football season), the athletic department was MASSIVELY underwater last year due to the impacts of the pandemic. Whit & co. did some clever and beneficial navigating, restructuring, etc. to solve some problems but they are hurting. Getting a loan when you're already underwater in ways you've never been before may not be the wisest move.
that's fair, but there's no better time to borrow money than right now, with interest rates the way they are
That may be traditional wisdom, but the athletic department's revenue isn't guaranteed to any degree. A recession that affects donations and ticket sales, or a couple years of bad performance while a new coach builds up would affect revenue. You don't want to go and add payments that may be difficult to make. Unless there was something they could spend money on that would guarantee additional income, it's probably not worth it right now, and in the athletic department, it's hard to imagine anything that would fit in that category (other than a new football coach).
This was mostly a joke since the theory/rumor was Sands/university leadership put the end to an plans Whit had to move on after last year. But your condescension is noted for the record
There was no condescension in my reply. I've seen this kind of thing floated over and over again and simply haven't had time to reply anywhere else, so I took the opportunity here to make a note that I thought would be useful for people who don't know about how things are paid for at the university level. I'm not trying to pick on you, it's just a useful place to provide some insight.
michaelscottthankyou.gif
If I see that stupid "highest paid state employee" map making the rounds one more time I swear...
This muddies the waters on the theory that Sands nixed Whit's plan to fire Fu last year...
Never really made sense.
If the concern was about spending money during the pandemic, it would have been discussed far earlier than (what appeared to be) a last minute change in plans. The sensible theories are: a coaching candidate pulled out last minute, or a big donor who was funding a good portion of the buyout got cold feet.
If you're a top tier (Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson...LSU, USC) AD, you get out in front of this now. State your intent, and act. Even if the intent is to give Fu yet one more year, you need to be out in front of it to secure the recruiting class.
Do I think Fu is the guy...No. Do I think Whit will wait until season's end and only act when his hand is forced...Yes. Do I think we're looking at a 3-5 year rebuild while struggling at the bottom of the ACC...Yes.
Yeah, I don't think VT is sitting on a mountain of cash, like those programs.
I think Whit has the cash available when he wants it...more of an issue of throwing "his guy" under the bus and dealing with the emotional fallout. That said, if he waits as long as I expect...he'll have a disengaged fan base, some very large donors ready to pull their support, and an empty recruiting cupboard.
I disagree here, in the era of the transfer portal and with the right hire, we could be back much sooner. Don't forget we play in the ACC Coastal.
I'm starting to suspect that this "Joe Lanza" fellow is actually Whit's TKP alias and he is directly soliciting us for feedback on what should be done. Hmm...
God, I hope not. Too many hot takes on here for my liking.
Hmm... if true I may just like Whit even more; being able to corral this mob on the side.
He writes the new contract with several key clauses to make the buyout adjustable. TIC somewhat.
Win the ACC, buyout goes up by a half million.
Win 10 games, buyout goes up by a half million.
Fail to go to a bowl, your buyout reduces a half million. Bowling is a 100,000 bonus.
Lose to UVA or WVU, your buyout goes down 250,000. Win for 50,000 bonus.
I like that. 2.5 mil per year buyout per year for six years. Lets take a look at Fu's career how that would look with the 2018 buyout of 15 mil
Each loss lowers it by 250k for the year
Bowl miss lowers another 250k
Actual rival loss lowers by another 250k
2018: 6-7, buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.75 for losses, Bowl game played remaining buyout 13.85
2019: 8-5 buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.5 for losses, including UVA, bowl game played, remaining 9.95
2020: 5-6, buyout drops the 2.5 for the year and 1.5 for losses, remaining buyout 5.95
2021: 3-4, 1.25 for losses, counting WVU, buyout currently 4.7. No more wins, and Fu owes 300k for his buyout.
You missed the tongue in cheek aspect apparently. Buyouts are to protect a coach from being fired for poor performance, so there's zero chance you structure them to decrease when there is poor performance. You might as well take the clause out, and I'm not sure there's any P5 coaching job (unless they're a cellar dweller) that doesn't have a buyout clause. If we want to be competitive, we have to include something like this.
I really like the idea and creativity here, but the buyout clause really reflects the coach's leverage at the time of signing. There really isn't any reason to have a buyout that flexes like that. As a coach, either you have the leverage to get a higher buyout, or you don't and you're left with a less good buyout.
Incentives are more for bonus pay. I can't imagine a coach that would agree that success should increase job security when the success already gives you job security. If a coach is successful, he can use that leverage to seek out a new contract at another university or renegotiate the contract including buyout (like Fuente or Fisher) and get way more in return.
Well, we had a press conference today, and Fuente blamed execution, so Whit didn't do anything we recommended here. Game prep has started for GT, so unless he pulls the rug tomorrow, we have Fu for another week.
We're going to have Fu for the rest of the season.
sadly, this is likely the case. I would be shocked to see Fuente fired before season's end. I'd welcome it, but it would shock me.
What I am increasingly more worried about is whether he will be fired at all...only time will tell. This is either going to be a great Christmas for Hokies or a terrible one. Up to Whit to decide.
The absolute earliest I see Whit pulling the trigger is after the Duke game. The Coastal will be out of reach by then and Fuente can get to see his seniors out on Senior Day.
If VT had a suitable interim HC that likely makes the decision to fire him early but there doesn't seem to be one on staff.
Don't see Whit firing Fuente until November 28th.. Everyone knows Fuente is done at VT following this year. I would be shocked if he waits until December, there's a lot to lose and 2.5M isn't/shouldn't kill you as an AD.
And Whit isn't going to do something to scare off potential next HC's., like sack a "good guy" in the middle of the year.
I'm not sure that would be an issue, Fuente was given a 6th year when everyone thought he was gone last year. Whit has shown plenty of patience in dealing with this whole mess
Is there a benefit to firing him now vs November 28th? I would think with an official opening Whit could be more free to talk terms with candidates, especially since there are/will be several competing openings this cycle. I think a mutual parting of ways, a la Orgeron and LSU would be ideal. But something tells me Fu wouldn't agree to that and a reduced buyout.
Almost everyone Whit would be interested in is still employed so there wouldn't be any public discussions anyway. If Whit has made his decision, he has already started reaching out to potential candidates' agents to gauge interest.
We have Teerlink, JC Price, Shibest, and Hamilton, along with Tenuta as an analyst. It's not like we're going to win the coastal now. Let the rest coach for their jobs.
I can say with certainty right now, there's a few recruits who want to know the coaching situation, and they don't want to wait 3 weeks before signing day.
Putting an interim staff in place is not going to change the
They want to know if Fuente is staying or getting fired. Smith is a key recruiter, and if he doesn't stay on staff, we could lose a recruit or 2.
He's not staying. That's not going to be some big secret thing come Dec this year. And there are plenty more people involved beyond a few recruits.
Recruits aren't going to know if Smith remains on staff until a new permanent HC is hired and names/hires his own staff. An interim staff isn't going to help that.
Maybe we just hire someone else and clean out Fuente's office without telling him. Then when he says it was unprofessional to do it that way, we say it was well done but it was just execution. We're still working out the minutiae.
I get the sentiment but not cool.
Fuente wife and kids were at the game and had to hear the students etc chanting "fire fu." It was already an ugly look.
Fair
His wife and kids aside, that comes with the territory.
If you don't want Twitter vitriol, people chanting for you to be fired, anonymous message board posters cursing your name etc. etc. don't coach sports at the big time level.
Agree. Pay me $4mm a year and people can say anything they want about me on twitter, to my face, in front of my family, etc
I mean if a fan gets up in Fuente's face, that's one thing but there's a reason why there's VA State Troopers with him after the games.
But I'm all for booing. If you suck, you get booed. If you don't like it, go work somewhere else.
Lol, god y'all are soft.
Fuente's wife knows what is going on because unless he is that damn tone deaf, Fu knows he's a dead man walking and my guess is its been a discussion at the dinner table.
66,000 can chant for me to lose my job and never need to work ever again and I'd let my wife know, "Hey, we're winning in this situation. Kids will be fine and we don't need to do a damn thing the rest of our lives." The wife and kids can take a few minutes of awkwardness. No one is wishing them dead or anything.
Except you don't get to that level of coaching without having a competitive drive and a love for trying to teach young people. We can debate how good he is at that.
Fu won't just ride off into the sunset. He may take a year or to off, do broadcasting or something like that, but he will end back on the sidelines again.
And when he does, I'm very curious who he will have in the booth.
I'm sure he will. I'm just countering the point of how terrible it is that his poor wife and kids had to hear a short chant about him being fired.
We can be pragmatic for our football team while showing empathy towards our fellow Hokies.
Firing Fuente now or in December doesn't really matter. It does nothing for this season and it won't change the support for next season. In January, people aren't going to care if Fu was fired tomorrow or December 16th as long as he isn't the coach. Don't blow $2.5m on emotion. That is money for a new coach, staff or other resources.
If I was Whit, I am reaching out to agents all over to gauge interest from candidates. Assembling the short list and getting ready for putting a new coach in place before Jan 1. (Unless that coach is still coaching for another week or 2). If I had a hunch, this is what is already happening behind the scenes. For those wanting a search firm for it, I am 100% against it. That is what we pay Whit for and he has made good to great hires everywhere else in the department. Fuente was regarded as a great hire at the time too but no one bats 1.000 . I have faith in him finding the right guy next.
There is no way we can afford to wait until the buyout drops if we want to try and salvage our recruiting class, December 15th is also early signing day. If Whit is going to pull the trigger, he'll do so the day after UVA with an agreement in principle in place with a new coach.
Disagree entirely since those recruits could get out of their LOI or transfer without loss of eligibility if they sign and then coach gets fired. If we wait and fire him at the 15th with a new coach lined up, he has until Feb to recruit that class and more. Those kids aren't likely going to decommit and then sign on the line for another school that quickly if they weren't already going to jump ship.
It is no secret we do not have the budget of the blue bloods for hiring and firing people left and right. Why burn $2.5m to a guy you are firing over 2.5 weeks? We don't have a class of 5 stars we are hoping to hold on to. Only a few guys look like real difference makers and are likely sensible enough to hear the new coach out if they are still on board when Fuente is fired.
The vast majority of recruits sign on/near early signing day now. If you wait until the 15th to fire Fuente, and hire a new coach, you're severely limiting the kids a new staff can try to recruit. The commits will have a good idea of whether Fuente will be gone or not, so it's not like by waiting you're going to have commits stay, because they don't have options elsewhere, which isn't cool any way. You're better off giving the new coach as much time to try and salvage the class as you can.
It's not an early signing day. It's an early signing period that goes from the 15th to 17th. They just prefer to get the recruits to sign on the first day. And usually if they're going to sign, they do so on the first day.
And in the case of a coach change or something, they have the normal signing day in Feb
Of the 358 prospects rated four stars or better in the 247Sports Composite, only 30 remain unsigned. That was for 2021 class. It's 10000% the new signing day with the scraps being picked up later.
When you say "later," do you mean in February? I found an article that sounded like any new coach had a rough time during ESP but they jumped after the late signing period. It didn't go into how many recruits wound up signing with different schools, but based on how many schools and how much the recruiting classes jumped from after ESP to the late signing period, it sounded like the coaches were able to keep most of their recruits. Granted, the article was from 2018 and didn't see similar articles. So not sure if waiting is worth the $2.5M. Here's the link to the article.
Sure, one day vs three days is semantics, but you're talking about 80% of recruits signing during that period, which is the important part.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-college-football-early-....
What coach is going to take a job when they won't even have a chance to try and salvage a recruiting class?
Buts its more than just a recruiting class, it's also the current players. How many jump in the portal because they are left in limbo for 2.5 weeks? It doesn't seem like a long time but there are a lot of moving pieces when it comes to that. A lot players may decide to make matters into their own hands vs leaving it to chance.
Current players will wait to see who the new coach is. They have no deadline. They can be in the portal in March and get a new team for spring practice if they want. They hold the cards in that situation.
Fire him before Dec 15th/16th for a lot of different reasons, the 2 main ones are:
Fuente's agent isn't dumb and is likely already looking for a landing spot as well.
is there a buyout offset or no? some pretty conflicting things being tossed around lately
I don't think that is how it works if we fire him. Whit would have to settle with him to resign and negotiate a lower severance which he has no local reputation to worry about, like coach O. Get everything in place behind the scenes if you are Whit and once that $2.5m drop hits, fire him and have the next coach ready to go. Some of this will likely also depend if we get a bowl game or not, if he coaches it, if we have an interim coach, etc.
I think in the case of a head coach of a football program, it's all spelled out specifically, and negotiated into that unique contract.
It's not comparable to a severance package, which is usually dictated by corporate policy, and often not contractually required. Severance packages are usually sort of a bribe to make you go quietly.
It all comes down to language in the contract that's for sure.
"The most common is a duty to make a good-faith effort to find another job, with the income from that job offsetting the amount owed to the coach by the school that fired him."
Will get figured out in a few weeks that's for sure.
JUGS I have heard his contract does not include offset language. So we could fire him on the 16th, he gets hired on the 17th, and we still owe him the full amount.
Like you, I'm concerned about the recruiting class, especially with the early signing period. I said somewhere on here recently that in the future, I'm guessing Whit will probably go early December for contract dates in case he needs to make a change again to take the early signing period into consideration. I think/hope that if recruits realize we're making a change, they'll wait and see who we name as a replacement before they bolt. That's why I think if Whit waits until the 16th, he'll make the announcement firing Fuente and announcing a new coach at the same time. And hopefully the new coach will be exciting enough for the recruits that they stick with Tech.
Having said that, I thought I remembered from previous contract discussions that we paid him the buyout if we fire him regardless of if he gets a job later. I wonder how often the offset language you're talking about is included in contracts and if it's more common like in the SEC where the buyouts are massive.
New plan. Offer Fuente an extension. Put language in for a zero dollar buy out. Wait for ink to dry. Then fire him.
Ya know what I'd do?
Get two 4* quarterbacks to transfer at the same time?
Something "interesting" happened just now... Been donating to VT since I graduated in mid 2000s and while I would get the standard calls + emails from my ticket reps a few times a year... This is the first time their communication to me went almost straight to "do you have any concerns" and not selling more/better tickets.
*shrugs*
Have you seen the home schedule for next year?
I think it depends on who Fuentes replacement is, if we are hiring a coach that is currently employed, we wait til the end of the year to make that move.
If we are promoting from within I think the move should have been made already, give the last portion of the season to get the internal hire a chance to get his system in place.
If we are hiring a coach that is currently unemployed, it's doubtful our current assistants would stay on, can the new coach get a full assistant coaching staff in the middle of the season? Again, I think if we go this route we need to wait til the end of the season also.
I feel pretty confident we're not promoting from within, at least not to the head coach position.
First thing - I would fix HokieRif's internet. For some reason none of the major sports sites (e.g., TKP, ESPN) are showing any links or articles with content containing "Hokies Fire..."