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Hearing from current players that Justin Fuente has coached his final game at Virginia Tech.— Delusional Hokie (@HokieDelusional) November 6, 2021
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I've heard every rumor under the sun. I'll believe it when I see it.
This.
I heard Fuente is a reptilian...heard that one before?
Wondering if any announcement or leak will take place once the slate of games starts today. Just to avoid being a topic on Gameday.
He quit on the team last night
He absolutely should be fired and it's bullshit that he is going to get $7.5m-$10m for his incompetence
If true, it makes sense. Saturday in Lane will be brutal. Not only will attendance be extremely light, but Fu could get booed out of the stadium. Ugly look for him and his family. It's time to go ahead and make the move now. Give JHam the reins the last three games and let the fanbase rally around the team for a few weeks and give hope for the future. We should also let Tahj play the last three games since he could still preserve his shirt and gives him an opportunity to prove himself for the next staff.
Next Saturday is going to be one of the ugliest days in VT Football history if Whit doesn't sack up and make a move this week. It's sad because anyone with a brain can see it coming from a mile away and I still don't think Whit is going to do anything.
If there are a lot of boos and the Fuente family is made to suffer, that's on the fans, not on Whit.
And the only thing that will be sad is our fanbase showing how little they care about Hokies Respect. As you said, everyone with a brain knows there will be a move, why be classless about it?
That's what everyone thought last year.
I would say a vocal faction hoped for it last year. But there was still a healthy contingent willing to give him another year, if not necessarily singing his praises.
I have seen zero people on this site suggesting he should be retained at this point though.
Fuente should stay
My son got a full size kit-kat on Halloween. He ate it exactly the way your meme shows. He's only 8, but I know there's no coming back from this and I've failed him as a parent.
You sure there's going to be a move? How much would you bet on it?
Make this comment orange and maroon plaid if it does and orange and blue plaid if it doesn't?
Fake internet points are all I can afford.
Fuck you. I have a family to feed and you want to take all my turkey legs away?
I hate the hokies respect thing, but I tend to agree with this. It's not difficult to acknowledge that Fuente done a bad job at VT and needs to be replaced, but also refrain from booing him and partaking in 'fuck Fuente' chants.
I am all for not booing players, and fuck anyone chants are out of line, but stick it in should have stayed. It should be played every redzone visit to ensure we have a high redzone scoring percentage.
Honestly, the chant is a good reminder for the players on what to do because apparently this year our offense has forgotten what to do when we get inside the 20.
Hokies Respect wasn't responsible for removing Stick It In. That was some old fuddy duddys
No, it probably won't. No offense, but that sentence shows an amazing lack of perspective. Having lots of big emotions about a thing doesn't make it matter more. Especially to other people. I'm not saying a few vocal fans at the game won't make the entire fan base look like entitled assholes, they probably will, I'm just saying no one will care that much or remember it in a week or two.
Firing Fuente now vs in December does nothing but assuage the bloodlust of a few emotional fans. At the cost of $2.5 million. What do we gain from firing Fuente now that's worth $2.5 million and can't wait 6 weeks? I want an AD who is a professional and makes decisions based on reason not one who bows to the whims of emotional fans.
This is Whit's job and he takes it seriously. This is our passion, and while we are just as serious about our fandom, it is ultimately rooted in emotion, not reason. Making multimillion dollar business decisions based purely on emotion is not good business.
The sooner you make the move, the sooner you can get a replacement hired so the entire recruiting class isn't toast. This is ultimately why USC and LSU made the moves as quickly as they did.
Right and we are going to likely be waiting on the LSU and USC to make their moves and then the fallout from that, so why rush and piss away $2.5 million just to wait.
Well hell, might as well wait 3 more years for the buyout to be nothing then.
^^^ Post of the year
Guess we are all in on short sightedness and delusion
I think the delusion would be believing we even sniff the top of the list for the type of guys that LSU and USC will be looking at.
As for short sightedness, I don't think there is anything short sighted about recognizing that the Hokie football program only goes further down the longer Fuente is the head coach.
We aren't looking at the same pool of candidates as likely replacements as LSU and USC and let's not pretend we are.
There is absolutely some value to gain by being earlier to the game of replacing the coach. Is it worth $2.5M? Can that be negotiated down? I can't answer that.
The date in December that triggers the buyout reduction is National signing day. Do you want to wait that late in game? I for one don't. In my opinion it's the reason Fuente wasn't out last year - the pool of replacements will have been narrowed significantly by the middle of December. If you can get the guy you want, before then, make the move.
Honestly? We have Harrods dreams and a KMart budget. DO you really think we are shopping for the same type of coaches as LSU and USC? We're not even parking in the same lot.
We're not going head-to-head with LSU/USC, but those hires have ripple effects. USC/LSU could hire Franklin, Stoops, Lane Kiffin, Campbell, etc. We're not in the running for any of those candidates, but we could be going head to head with PSU, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Iowa State, etc
edit: left out a word
When was the last time any ACC program hired away a head coach from another P5 program?
I'm thinking it was Willie Taggert - hired in large part because of his supposed recruiting prowess, particularly in FL - and we all know how that went.
And before that? I honestly can't even think of who it might be (Bobby Ross don't count). Lou Holtz? Dennis Erickson (and Miami wasn't in the ACC)? Tom O'Brien...sort of.
The point is ACC programs aren't luring head coaches from P5 programs...and that includes the dogs. VT won't be competing with PSU or even Miss St.
UVA hired Al Groh away from the NFL does that count
No.
No. They only got the man in the mirror.
You'd think VT would be the one school in the commonwealth who would aim to develop sustainable farming practices, but UVA definitely had their phase where they were all in on Al Groh Culture.
This might be the worst pun I have ever seen on here!
Great job!
Holy shit. Bra-fuckin'-vo with that one. I'd insert the Rock clapping .gif, but this thread's getting bogged down as-is. I just didn't want this to go unappreciated.
Beat me to it, if you are one of the names floating around do you really take a deal now or wait until the big players settle and pick your best option. I am sure Whit is trying to lock down his guy already and if he gets the guy he wants committed, then by ask means make the move, but if Whit sends Fuente packing and his replacement is announced after Dec 16, Whit has 2.5 million questions to answer.
Then why haven't they hired coaches? Right now all it has done is get some coaches some bonuses.
If they're looking at currently employed coaches, they may not be able to announce it until the end of the regular season. They're definitely talking to agents, and can do it without worrying about word leaking out and undermining their lame duck current coach.
I hope this is true, but don't have good feelings about it coming from delusional hokie.
Today is my birthday and there is only one gift that I want. Any guesses?
Paging JUGS...any chance I'm gonna get that gift?
Funny I wanted jugs for my birthday also
Happy Birthday!!! (Surprised other people didn't say anything - think you were caught in a birthday/Fuente crossfire or something).
Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to wait to get your present until late November/mid December. But think you'll get the present you want!
I'm gonna call bullshit on this since his Twitter account has been reporting this since 10/29. I'm all for it though.....
Yeah, one quick look at that account and unless it's a player on a burner, I'm not believing it. Too sparse of an account, only tweeting for 2 weeks, red flag city
Don't give me hope.gif
🙏
#MadeTheMove?
Probably more in the process of #MakingtheMove at this point. Would love for Whit to do it now and it's probably the best thing to do, but believe it when I see it as others have said.
All I want for Christmas is 🎶
Let's try to improve that timeline up to Thanksgiving, k? Thanks
I'll believe it when Whit announces it himself, all these rumors are just a tease until proven otherwise.
I suppose I'd be more impressed if the source of this rumor weren't DELUSIONAL HOKIE.
Nothing personal, as I don't know who it is, but the name may be a sign.
Yeah, yeah.
Take your leg and I'll take my drink.
And for you: I'm totally done with this team if this rumor isn't true. /s
Another buck for the buyout!
Only $9,999,856 to go! (estimated, starting in October, 2021). Should have started it last year.
Stop it. You're getting my hopes up so much
... Not holding my breath but damn I hope it's true
What ? Come on
Hearing rumors that there may be rumors that Fuente has coached his last game for Virginia Tech.
My cousin's brother's mailman talked to someone else in the post office and their sister-in-law's nephew saw on Twitter that someone heard the same rumor you speak of
To be fair, they were right about something one time.
I am usually 100% correct about 65% of the time.
Big, if true.
I have no doubt that the decision (to move on) has been made, and conversations with other candidates have been ongoing for a while now.
That said, I won't believe that Fuente is 'officially' removed until a verified source (Godfrey, Feldman, McMurphy) or Whit himself breaks the news.
At this point I'm going to need actual video of Whit verbatim saying Fuente is no longer the coach. Pretty much all the insiders thought he was gone last year and everyone was shocked when Whit retained him.
Exactly. The only insider who counts is Whit.
I have it from good sauces that Fu is gone and Corny is the interim. /s. Sorry, bad humor.
I'm down for it at this point...the last 3 games would be like watching this:
So...
No change?
Yeah, but at least with Corny I don't give myself false hope
What even is this account and why share it? If it was someone with a track record then sure, but this ain't that. Why not share the current and former players subtweets instead?
EDIT: sp, grammar
Don't go getting our hopes up like that
There's no reason to believe this is a reliable source, but I think you framed this post in a way that was not intentionally misleading, and titled it appropriately.
I do believe the decision has been made, whether it's announced soon or at the end of the season is less clear, but we should definitely wait until we have this kind of news from a more reliable/proven source to post anything else like this.
I'm betting at least one or 2 players will spill it, soon. No, I don't like the account, but there's a lot of smoke to this fire. It would be against CGs if I just posted #sauces. So, yes, I tried framing it as informative as possible.
Let's hope you are right. I don't see Whit actually doing it during the season, and I think the $2.5 million is actually a big deal. Unless Fu told Whit this morning he would agree to a reduced buyout now, I don't see it.
I think you can tell from Fuentes body language that he's been told he's not coming back.
At this point there's no reason to fire him. Way too late to send a message that we won't tolerate this. Too late to get a public jump on a new coach. Whit mishandled this situation imo, just like the extension. Save the money at this point and let him hear the Fire Fuente chants at Duke. If they fire him now I'm convinced that's the only reason, to avoid the optics of those chants, and that's just fucking weak sauce.
It makes no sense to fire because you're mad about a game. You fire because you want to hire someone else.
$2.5 million isn't nothing, so it's more a calculation on the recruiting class.
^this.
The buyout is substantial, so Whit better make extra sure that he understands why Fuente failed and that whoever he hires understands:
1. Why he was successful at his current stop before VT
2. What he needs to work on when taking the VT job
3. What resources VT has that he currently doesn't have AND how to make best use of them
4. What resources VT doesn't have that is needed and how he will make do while Whit goes out and gets it
5. An actual recruiting plan and how to develop players and schemes to be successful
If there isn't a coach that can do any of this, that 7.5-10 million to fire Fuente may end up being much more.
If we couldn't afford the buyout we should have never included it in the contract.
See: ESPN - College Coach Buyout Report
If you don't include the buyout, you don't get a coach that's worth a shit.
Even with the buyout we don't have a coach worth a shit
It's possible the next coach will suck too, but let's not guarantee it, right?
To offset a high buyout, you have to pay a higher salary on the front end. That's probably what we should have done with Fu in hindsight, an extra mil per year in exchange for half the buyout.
If we couldn't afford the higher annual salary and agreed to a large buyout instead, then we truly agreed to something we couldn't afford and were simply betting that Fu would be a rousing success.
Why not let Fuente know that there are two options:
Having Fuente under contract does not limit the AD's search for a new coach and I presume he could sign a new coach with a starting date of December 17th.
The only question is home much Fuente wants to suffer on his way out of town.
According to some lawyers here, no bueno on pre-signing the new coach.
I'm not sure why that is, but the last thing you want to do is get sued for breach of contract.
I guess I don't see it as a breach of contract. Employment at VT is not guaranteed, just compensation.
He's a contractual employee without knowing the details of the contract you can't possibly say what is and isn't guaranteed.
Well, you're mostly right, but contractual details matter. We're talking significant "dead money" at stake.
Exactly, basic employment contracts I've gotten are lawyer written and I have lawyers go over them because they're confusing and are for significantly less than the numbers in Fus contract. I'm certain his clauses are at least as confusing as a basic contractual employment that lawyers pick apart on both sides.
Could Whit fire Corn, and hire the new coach to be OC/AHC with a clause that when the HC is fired, he's the new HC? That would have him on staff and eligible to recruit, while not firing Fuente until the buyout goes down.
Just a hypothetical question, ya know. ;^)
We finally agree. Horseshoe theory I guess
Terrible level of effort there by DelusionalHokie to stoke the rumor mill. If you really want to cause some sparks, at least include some screengrabs of players liking tweets/gram posts that are critical of the coaches.
Yeah. Not a great playcall by DelusionalHokie to run the jet rumor to the boundary side
I think he's been flagged for "false start".
He decided to punt the rumor and play field position down 2 scores with 5 minutes left.
It so depressing watching Wake and Carolina both scoring over 50pts and Corny somehow can't reach 20pts over 3 games ..
Yep... Clawson isn't a super sexy name to replace Fuente, but at least his teams score.
I don't want claws on at the helm but I would be down to poach his OC
Well of course his teams score. Clawson himself scores.
Duke managed to score 29 points and throw for 241 yards against that impenetrable Pitt secondary.
Is it possible Whit could announce now that CJF's tenure as coach will end on Dec 15, so we can get on with the hiring process and transition plan for the next coach (while saving the buyout)? Hoping for a way to move on, sooner.
His agent won't allow that
Even if it were possible, that would be the worst lame duck decision ever made.
Maybe instead of donating canned food next week, the 12 fans that do show up should give cash towards the buyout.
Hire Tom Herman
I don't think Whit if he does fire during season will do it before senior day game, he will give him that.
It's stupid. We're so close to the deadline. Do it then
T minus 40 days and counting. Let the count down begin.
It's like Noah's Ark, but with mediocrity
Rumors are out there but one thing that has always rang true. Whit does not allow anything to leak until it is official. We saw that with Fuente's hire, CMY and retaining FU last year. Why would one think that any of these rumors are true based on this past? There is no reason to trust any of them.
I don't believe it. Whit would go public before players are told or simultaneously to telling players to avoid unnecessary speculation. But speculation is here.
Nonsense, Whit's just figuring out how best to say this year was really Year Zero.
Yeah, I would be surprised to see an official announcement before the Dec. 16th date. Unless Fuente steps down. Which doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
May be some legalize around signing a new coach before then. But I don't really see how that hampers Whit's search, unless theres an interview clause in Fuente's contract. But considering he has interviewed at other places over the years, that seems unlikely.
At this point make Fuente coach until he realizes he is doing irreparable harm to his coaching future and agrees to a lower buyout to leave early or can him after the buy out drops.
If he hasn't figured that one out yet, I'm pretty sure he won't figure it out until the buyout is down to $0.
By "that" I mean doing irreparable harm to his coaching future. Not that he will agree to a lower buyout to leave early. Maybe he does that like down to $7.5 million to leave a month early, but nothing more than that. And I'm quite skeptical even that will occur.
Every time I see this thread
Whit is a smart guy and great business leader. He didn't suddenly get stupid. Maybe he had a deal worked out with Fu that he stays "hired" to the end of the season, allowing him to take another job (cause if he's fired, there's no chance he gets another gig for 1-2 years), in return he agrees to a lower buyout.
Based on what? Buzz wanting to use us as a stepping stone?
Buzz Williams
Mike Young
Kenny Brooks
Tony Robie
The list goes on but I'm sure you get the point.
Lol k. I strongly disagree.
Clearly
TTs mom really going all in on Fuente on Twitter lately...not great
Just saw...wow. This is ugly. Said they were told they don't call audibles in this scheme and they replied we called audibles in 7th grade rec league.
Yeah....that's just not a good look at all.
The comment about him being a Tarheel if Cunningham wasn't AD was pretty brutal. TT was probably considered the best Recruiting "win" in Fuente's tenure and that comment suggests it was more by default than anything else (not necessarily a huge surprise at this point in retrospect).
Also essentially says she knew TT wouldn't play on Tuesday; poking a massive, gaping hole in Fuente's claim that he wasn't aware Tre wouldnt be available.
You have to wonder how much longer Whit can keep this going; to me we are clearly already at the point where each day we keep Fuente is only more damning to the Program.
I bet he can keep it going somewhere between 21 and 39 days longer
Not just TT, there's been some comments made about Holston's situation as well from others.
VT doesn't need a dozen scholarship running backs and they don't need three seeing the field without injury.
Tre has a legit reason to have sour grapes. Holston can only be pissed that the staff didn't "develop" him to be better than a three star true freshman.
I do appreciate how Holston is open about wanting Fu gone like the rest of us.
I'm pretty sure everyone on the roster has a reason to be pissed with our coaches right now. Lack of depth has starters playing way too much, and many times being asked to play through injuries they wouldn't be asked to do so elsewhere. And, our scheme sucks and doesn't allow anyone to really stand out. Oh, and our coaches cannot scheme wins for us. And if you're a backup, enjoy warming the bench.
Yes, they should all be pissed about losing, but Blackshear, Thomas, and Tre have been our best performing skill position players by far.
Holston got unlucky that he's on a crappy team with a crappy coaching staff, but two of the top 3 position players are the same position as him.
And obviously Fuente has to go and hopefully will go in less than a month, but the Holston situation is no different than any upper classmen who thinks it's finally their time getting passed on the depth chart.
I can't upvote yet or I would. As someone that watches multiple SEC games each weekend in addition to ACC matchups, it pains me to see our players out there injured when they shouldn't be because we have no depth to speak of.
Holston is only pissed because he got overtaken by a true freshman...he had his opportunities to perform and didn't.
Yeah, no offense to Holston, but his complaints just sound like sour grapes to me. He got plenty of opportunity to prove he could hack it. There are plenty of other players with firmer ground to stand on complaints-wise. That being said, don't try publicly slamming your employer on social media (or having your mom do it) in the real world. That'll get you fired real quick.
One thing that is very telling about this whole thing is, despite how much the fans don't like him, players and family members of players seem to respect a lot of the things that Eric Kumah have to say.
Almost like he tried to warn us about the truth a few years ago
gotta admit, I am furious the truth has proven to be on his side
Even an angry blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while.
Can anyone please link relevant Twitter threads for those of us who don't use it?
I respect French but tweeting this to Turner's mom is not a good look IMO
Let's just say I know for sure one of those folks knows a lot about football.
Also, it's normal for a parent to try their best to advocate for their children.
So you just have to keep Twitter in perspective. You know, and avoid it.
Let's just say publicly shit talking a parent about their child is not a good look at all. Doing so when you're affiliated with a fan website for the school that child plays for is worse. Especially a site that publicly begs for money and leverages articles written by the person shit talking said parent to get that money.
This is why the last few weeks here are going to be ugly. Fan frustration is boiling over, parents and players are coming out attacking the coaches, everyone is on edge and it's just an ugly look. The right thing to do would have been fire Fu after the Syracuse game and let the fanbase cool down and rally around the team for a few more weeks. The only reason we aren't doing that apparently is because of $2.5 mil, which I agree is no small sum. But this buyout that Whit agreed to has hamstrung the whole program and led to us keeping Fu far longer than we should have, leading to a toxic situation. Whit isn't waiting because it's the right thing to do, it's just because he has no financial choice. And that's the sad and frustrating part of all of this.
1. I tolerate you to an extent, really past an extent. For my personally, I'm running a business, not begging for money. The last person who put it that way was banned and I'm happy to show you the door too (and anyone else who wants to reduce me and the amount of time I've put into this place to "begging").
2. French didn't tweet that to his mom.
While French did not "@" Tre's mom, he most definitely tweeted this "AT" her. He used verbiage from one of her tweets talking about the different quarterbacks that have played while Tre has been at VT. She most definitely saw the tweet as she responded to it. So all in all, it's not a good look, IMO, to be attacking the mom's of our players.
For fuck sake. Give me a break.
The man is in no way connected to the program and free to "@" whoever he wants. Lets step back into reality and understand that anyone that tweets may get tweeted at. If they don't expect that then they shouldn't be on the platform. Do I hate fans tweeting at recruits? yes, because they are minors. Do I care at all that it reflects bad on Hokie Nation? Not one bit because it doesn't, and in that line this reflects nothing on Joe, this website, Hokie Nation or VT in any way.
Step off the cancel culture ledge and lets all get some perspective. If anyone disagrees with French, then voice it here or in a tweet with something illustrating why that goes beyond the superficial "it makes us look bad" bullshit.
and No I did not downvote you
100% agree. French's tweet was not nasty and neither was Tre's mom's reply. In fact both of their tweets are completely accurate. Tre has dropped passes and failed to get open. We have had 7 different QBs and based on what Fuente likely sold, this is not the high powered offense he was expecting.
thank you Fernley
Twitter is what it is. French did nothing wrong. Getting all bent out of shape over this is just over reacting to a big fat nothing burger.
What in the world does this have to do with "cancel culture" (whatever that means)?
Forget it, he's rolling.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cancel-culture
the phenomenon or practice of publicly rejecting, boycotting, or ending support for particular people or groups because of their socially or morally unacceptable views or actions:
In this case, the "bad look" tweet by French is the perceived socially unacceptable view or action.
I think the reaction here is exaggerated, but nobody to my knowledge is boycotting or cancelling French.
Your overall point is well-taken, but we can discuss the topic without exaggerating it.
If you don't know what cancel culture is then you are blind to your own ignorance.
Neither is shit talking a website on that very website's message board....
Publically shit talking a parent about their child is definitely a bad look. Why is this getting downvoted?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all about downvoting Alum07, as he has more than enough legs to begin with. But not for this take. Not at all.
"Publically shit talking a parent about their child" is not at all what happened. The post is incorrect and French didn't tweet @ his mom.
I think the downvotes are not necessarily his opinion about shit talking to/with a parent on social media, which is valid (I get it, French wasn't addressing her directly). It's the other caveats in his comment about TKP.
yeah, I was confused for a moment as to why Angry Joe made an appearance, then I went back and reread the comment he was replying to and went ohhhhhhh yep that'll do it
VTJ12, is this the kind of "ugly" you were talking about?
Pass her the aloe, she's going to need it for that sick burn.
Well done, French.
And no, I don't have a problem calling out hypocrisy.
It's a sub tweet it's not directly at her tho. Passive aggression is completely acceptable on social media
Life Pro tip: don't tweet at players and families.
Life Pro Tip: Don't use twitter. Complex issues can't be talked about with character limits.
Seconded. Would add all social media to this, life is much better without the drama...
Social media is what you make out of it. a lot of breaking and local news is available on social media.
Bill O'Brien
He has proven to be a great manager of general things... GM of sorts
This is patently false, but I guess since we don't have draft picks to trade away we might be ok
Honestly, no. I would honestly consider taking the Ped St. job immediately after that debacle, especially if you arent an alum, to show massive character issues that I dont want associated with Tech.
Why on earth do you view taking that job AFTER they cleaned house of everyone associated with what happened as a red flag?
Just makes no sense, if anything it shows good character that he was willing to deal with the fallout of that situation when he had no dog in the fight.
I mean I can easily see an 18-22 year old feeling frustrated and saying that without having any actual insight on what Whit's going to do.
I said the exact same thing after the Syracuse game, but I ended up being wrong. We'll see.
If the decision-makers are even discussing to save $2.5mil we are screwed as a football program regardless. If we want to compete at the top tier, $2.5mil shouldn't be that much
Clearly it is though. Either the people who donate millions of dollars don't have this money, or they don't want to spend it on the Hokies. Not sure what you're looking for...
let's be realistic. Beamer took us from invisibility (86 peach bowl aside) to ultimately 2nd tier when we played for a Natty with a great defense, special teams and Vick. But even then we didn't have a 1st tier program on all fronts.
Now we're back to Dooley level and aspiring to be 2nd tier again.
And I say this as a diehard Hokie with 17 years of service to the University. And from a place that is better from which to plan for the future.
Also, when Beamer was in Football wasn't really viewed as an asset by the university. My Freshmen year (1995) the team made it to the Sugar Bowl and won. The student applications doubled, buildings started to go up on campus. Beamer put us on a map and National noteriety. The school since then has known the importance of a good football team.
Also, when Beamer was in Football wasn't really viewed as an asset by the university.
VT was taking an interest in the Eighties. Dooley was an investment. They also invested in Lane Stadium in 1980, expanding it to hold 52,000 people. I watched VT football in the 1980s, and it was freaking fun. Bruce Smith was in beast mode. VT was winning games, being ranked, and going to bowls.
Sort of sucked for a few years under Beamer as he recovered from the NCAA sanctions Dooley left him with, but even before he was there VT had taken an interest in football. Its just that they stubbed their toe with Dooley, and were paying the price.
I wish I had been there earlier and seen Bruce play. Must have been exciting times in Bburg. I bet there was dime beer on College Ave, too. It was already a quarter when I got there.
There were nickel beers on Friday at The Balcony (TOTS) when I was in school from 88-92 from 4-4:30 after a small cover you could get shit beer. Stand at the bar at 4. Get 2. Pound them. Order 2 to walk around and then try to make it back in line by 4:30 for your 5th and 6th nickel beer. Bad way to start a night but it was a bargain. We cried when it doubled to a dime each.
I was getting the 25 cent beers at a little hot dog stand near the lyric that was basically a window. Good times. Did the TOTS thing a few times in the late 80s, but I was more of a Cellar person.
Steve's Hot Dogs was the best! Wonder what happened to the place.
I think like so many mom n pops, it was a victim of rising rents downtown. Not many of my favorites left anymore as it becomes more corpratized. Give me a Mike's burger over chipotle any day.
I worked there 89-92. It became BOJO's Dogs (same owner- a guy named Bob Craven who was a retired Montgomery Sherrifs deputy) who dropped paying for the Steves franchise name. In 92 He was no longer 'hands on' with the business and got behind with the IRS and they just showed up and threw us out one day and locked the doors, never to open again.
As a studentvfrom1983-88 it WAS great watching Bruce play- 23 sacks in an 11 game season despite being double teamed nearly every play. 9-2 season with NO bowl game in 1983.
And $1 highballs at Marriott from 8-9pm -if you did it right you could get 10 drinks for $10 in that hour.
And 2 for 1 kamikazes at Bogens from 11pm-1 am Friday and Saturday nights--God 'i miss late night happy hours!!
And best of all Stonegate and Bargerfest block parties in the spring with 2000-3000 of your closest friends-noon-7/8 pm-5-6 bands-started with 40 kegs that ran out by 130pm-then it was BYOSC(bring your own shopping cart) of beer-or buying it straight off the truck at 7-11 cause they couldn't stock it fast enough!
And of course 117 S. Main (South Main Cafe)-best place to see a band.
Damn-now I wanna go back to those years lol!!
Electric Woodshed. 117 That's all I can remember from the 80's.
and Steady Rollin' Bob Margolin-former Muddy Waters band member-great blues!
Tom Principato too. And Catfish Hodge.
we overlapped - 85-89. I do remember the $1 highballs and did get to go to one of the last Bargerfests. Was so weird to come back in the mid 90s and find the street gone! 117 was great back in the day. Linda Ruth had a falir for book talent in an otherwise out-of-way place.
1986-90 here. Stonedgate was awesome.
I was in Carlton Scott from 2009-2011. Just looked and rents have nearly doubled.
Stonegate 2010-3013
We were starting to be noticed a bit earlier than that, and things were cookin' by 95 as the tier of bowls we got improved. The apps did go up, but the building boom (outside of athletics) was as much to do with a massive capital campaign we ran at that time that I worked on in UniRel. From the academic side it was a bit of a mixed blessing early on as athletics got better facilities while the rest of campus lagged behind. The culture of campus shifted then too - some way good and other ways less so.
So you're saying that if we want to be rich we should be rich. Got it.
I'm sorry I hate Fuente as much as anyone at this point, but I'm tired of everyone always making everything about race.. Like does someone ACTUALLY believe Fuente was willing to sacrifice his job to play players of a certain skin tone? Parents or not that shits unacceptable and everything that's wrong with our society anymore. If that's how they feel I hope their kids carry themselves to a different team, straight ignorance. The man can't coach a lick but he's not racist
It's an easy cop out when you're angry. Some fans at SC were saying the same thing about their qb situation.
I'm not accusing Fuente or sc or anyone else of racism, but let's refrain from dismissing the notion as an "easy cop out" when things are going bad as if racism isn't a thing. Thanks!
Racism is absolutely a thing.
But labeling someone as racist (or any of the other -ists) is a way to diminish someone, and it's not an accusation to take lightly, or to make without proof.
No person who I know, follow on twitter, or read in the media is making this about race.
Fuente is just a bad coach.
I mean, the tweet is linked like 3 posts up. I wouldn't instantly go to race either, but I also tend to stay as far away from race conversations as possible. I'm absolutely not qualified to even converse on the subject. However, to say it's not being discussed is false.
https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2021/november/6/rumors-fuente-may-off...
"Being discussed on Twitter" is a far cry from "being true".
Someone's observations about someone ELSE's motivations are about as valuable as their opinions.
Does someone ACTUALLY believe Fuente was willing to sacrifice his job for an incompetent OC because they're buddies
I think he gave him a lot more rope than he should have.
The fact this tweet became about race is completely absurd.
"The wrong hue" refers to the color orange Hendon now wears. Not his skin color.
First of all, this might not even be about race. I had to re-red the thread several times before I realized what you were talking about. But if it was...When a person of color expresses that kind of frustration maybe you should shut up and let them speak? Doesn't mean you have to believe it, or jump to the conclusion that someone is a racist, but it's not hard to acknowledge that unconscious biases exist and accept that's how somebody feels in the moment instead of demeaning them. I agree calling Fuente a racist is too far, but you also need to allow people who have experienced these patterns to at least speak their mind even if you don't agree.
And admittedly toeing the line here, but if you think this is the number one ailment of society right now, you should probably back away from social media/news echo chambers. I promise you they are feeding you exaggerated and twisted versions of the truth to make you angry.
It probably was not because of skin color, but it's clear our staff consistently overlooks players who have the skills to be starting. HH yesterday against #18 UK was 15/20 for 316 yards and 4 tds with no ints. There is something seriously wrong with the way CFU and staff are coaching these players. Time to move on.
While I'll be the first to say Hooker is lighting it up this year and I would love to have him still be on our team. But with that said I don't think we can compare what he's doing now to what he would do if he was still here. First they have a much better coaching staff and scheme at least on offense, I think we could all agree on that. Also let's not discount the fact that while we love our current and former Hokies players; recruiting has never been our strong suit, I would venture to say Hooker has much better players overall all around him at UT. Still think he would be an upgrade over Burmeister, but think ultimately he made the right move to help his career the most.
The flip side to this is that all of those things are indirectly an indictment of this coaching staff. Bad recruiting, no depth, weird scheme that doesn't get the best out of the players, etc
And he already stayed a year after first entering the portal and nothing got better for him. Arguably some would say it got worse for him.
Makes you wonder if that was held against him by the staff
I have no way of knowing if that was the case but we do know that Corn was in charge of the first teams in practice compared to the second team being ran by Fu. If HH is being coached by Corn and BB is being coached by Fu, I can totally see Corn deciding to go with BB over HH since Corn doesn't make the best decisions when it comes to putting the team in the best situation to win or being a P5 level coach. I really do just think it is ineptitude.
Do you really think Fuente doesn't have the final say on who QB1 is?
Not out of the question since the next year was when Fuente said anybody who entered the transfer portal wouldn't be welcomed back (right after he interviewed for the Baylor job)
People love to think when a bad decision is made it's because of some logical pre-determined bias.
What is overlooked in this view is the simple explanation of incompetence and/or a different opinion /perception that is incorrect.
That's not malicious or biased - it's just being bad at your job.
Ps - I do think the close relationship with Corn clouded Fu's judgement - this is with the benefit of hindsight.
It's pretty clear Hooker was the better option.
I have no doubt that if he were still on the team, Hooker would be starting at VT right now, and VT's record would be significantly better. Fuente failed to retain him in the fold. This was a fatal mistake for the team, and for Fuente.
I disagree only because I believe that if Hooker was still at VT this coaching staff would have run him into a serious injury sometime around the West Virginia game.
For what it's worth, Hooker couldn't win the starting job at Tennessee either. He only got a shot because Joe Milton got injured.
Hooker's story is pretty fascinating IMO - he's failed to win a QB competition 4 years in a row, despite later getting a chance and proving he was the better QB. Maybe he's just a bad practice QB? IDK.
My theory is that pocket passers look better in practice. QB's aren't scrambling as much in practice since coaches don't want them to get hurt, and the coaches are focusing on them learning the play, and not improvising. So having someone who can stand there, and is potentially the more accurate thrower (when they have time) works to their advantage.
This actually makes a lot of sense. Hadn't thought of that before.
I agree here and will add something else.
Being a "gamer" matters and is very hard to simulate in practice, especially at QB. What happens in the chaos?
How does the kid handle the real pressure - mentally and physically?
How well does their body hold up when they mainly don't get hit in practice (aka they aren't live)?
Can they do that for themselves and others in a game situation?
Sometimes, a coach has to throw out all the practice film and look at game performance and weigh that more significantly. This is a delicate dynamic to manage to a team so you do not send the signal that practice doesn't matter (it does). However, as a great athlete once said - "we are talking about praatice - not a game, not a game"
I think a great example of that was starting for the first time in 2020 - and playing to cardboard cutouts and recorded MV music. Then playing for a full Lane stadium for the first time this year. I think that's been tough for our QB.
That's a fantastic take and I never thought of that before. There's every chance you're right about that.
Hasn't gotten cold in Knoxville yet...
This comment wasn't necessary. Hooker wasn't just cold. Something was wrong or the medical staff would have let him play. Would you make fun of a player if they tore their ACL?
Sour grapes and racism allegations by players shouldn't be the reason for fuente leaving. That is twitter noise. Listening to former disgruntled players and parents is crap, and our fan base should be better than that . fuente has lost his job, and we as a fan base dont need to tarnish his personal reputation by listening to noise.
When current players and parents of current players are publicly trashing the coach that's more than "noise" no matter what platform they're saying it on. That's a huge locker room issue.
Personally I think it would behoove all of these players to take their frustrations out in a less public way, but if they're going to do it I don't see how it's trashy to bring up here. Like it or not it absolutely is relevant in a discussion of the current state of the program.
No, it just means you're losing, and they're not happy. If you're winning, they go into the transfer portal and nobody cares what they say.
That doesn't contradict anything I just said...
I'm saying it's just noise, and you wouldn't even hear it if we were cheering for a winning team. But it's really loud when all the fans have left the building, and you can hear the echos of any lingering complaints.
And what I'm saying is that the difference between thinking a bad thought about your boss and saying it out loud is a real thing that has meaning. TT is our best receiver. Holston may have fallen out of favor but he's one bad play (knock on wood) from seeing pt again. If you can't see how this affects the performance of the team in a very tangible way, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
My impression is that the running game has improved with Thomas, and it doesn't surprise me that this doesn't sit well with Holston.
As for athletes complaining when they get less playing time, this isn't anything new.
Wow, you know the fans have really checked out when a TKP Fire Fuente thread only has 130 comments.
there's really not much more to say until something changes
I actually found TKP this weekend because of my frustration.
I was there in 86-87, watching losing games in the rain because none of my friends wanted to "waste their Saturday". Then came the Beamer years and we went to a bowl in 93(!) - and that got my attention again. by 94 I was back in the Burg, working for VT through 2010.
It was coming back to GA a second time - married to a UGA alum that stayed an extra year in school because Herschel Walker was there - to put VT football, and indeed the ACC in general into a greater perspective. The coaching is so bad at this point that I tell my spouse that it's ok if we switch off the game. After watching SEC football for the last 13 years too, I can clearly see the difference in coaching and energy at that level that wasn't as apparent to me in a Big East/ACC bubble. It's even harder watching UGA this year.
While we were dating we went to see VT play Alabama in the preseason game in Atlanta in 09(?)....and I was so PROUD. To sit next to a UGA grad enthusiastically cheering for the Hokies because they were GOOD was a rush. We saw them in the 2012 Sugar Bowl as a wedding anniversary trip. That's how much we love college football.
I was never on board with Fuente and to think there was even a glimmer of possibility that Kirby Smart was ready to leave Saban for us then is soul-crushing. Saddest of all is knowing VT from the inside as I did, it would not surprise me at all if Fuente, et al., are back for 22. We had one of the most amazing fanbases I've even seen - and I compare that to a UGA Saturday at our peak, and to watch us play ND at home and NOT have the place about to rattle apart?!?
Hopefully it's not too late to reclaim some of that former glory - eventually. Alabama wandered in the football Wilderness for what, 15+ years? before they found Nick Saban. It would be nice to get one of his assistants, but when we can't even be competitive with the Woos on salary, I don't see it happening.
Welcome to TKP. Leg for you sir.
Thanks! Hokies are everywhere, but not always obvious in my part of Jawja. I know there must be some though because even here in BFE I saw a baby vt ball cap at the local Goodwill.
Now I want an actual turkey leg. I do so miss those!
Not sure where to put this, but this seems as good a place as any...
For what it's worth, Jerry Kill was the coach of Minnesota from 2011-2013
I feel for Kill. Epilepsy is a goddamn plague. I've had it my whole life, just didn't know what it was. The only time it didn't effect me was in college, where I was noted for smoking the spice melange.
I will stop before I go into a "legalize it!" rant
my friend who is friends with someone whose cousin is a realtor said that the coaches are planning to list their homes because they know they are done /s
Your friend sounds like a lot of fun.
Can they coach football?
I don't think there is any racism with Fuente, I think he's just a bad coach from planning to decision making
Speaking of FU, is he still our coach?
I'd hope someone here would immediately announce news otherwise, when it breaks.
This whole thread is appropriately named:
"Rumours..."
There really isn't anything factual presented.
I understand the frustration, from fans, players, player's parents...
But nothing factual.
It's undeniable VT football is in a difficult place, but perhaps avoid some of these inflamed takes for a bit?
Just to point out what we all know
Am I reading that correctly that we have the lowest Points For and Points Against in the Coastal, i.e. worst offense and best defense?
Second worst points for in conference games, second best points against in conference games.
Worst scoring offense and best scoring defense overall through nine games
In other words for just conference games, we've allowed just one more point than Pitt, but they've scored 106 more points than we have.
It's not the defense exclusively, but you can't deny that they've been pretty bad too in important situations. We rank in the 70's in yards per game given up and have had late game collapses against Notre Dame and Syracuse that cost us. We got shredded up by Garrett Schrader at home. The offense has been atrocious, but the defense has been pretty bad.
And if the defense was getting offensive support, they might be doing better.
If the offense could have gotten one extra first down in two of those games, the defense wouldn't have been on the field to have a late game collapse.
Agree. But that still doesn't take the blame off the defense. The offense played really well against the two really strong defenses I mentioned (ND/Syracuse), and did more than enough to win. Giving up 400 yds and 5 TD to Garrett Schrader is never acceptable.
I guess, all I'm saying is, so far the offense has been a "D" while the defense has been a "C."
F and B- IMO
Look at year over year. Defense took a huge step forward this year. Offense fell off a cliff.
https://roanoke.com/sports/college/va_tech/virginia-tech-qb-knox-kadum-b...
If I'm Knox, I wouldn't take the blame in that loss. Blame Corny.
I mean what do you expect, he really made an absolute mess of those handoffs all night. 🙄
I get why he has to say this, especially after Fuente has been harping on player execution all season, but damn, they didn't really let him have a chance to execute a passing attack. Certainly not enough to take the blame for what happened.
Right? I mean he was 6/10 for 70 yards in the second half. Those stats aren't bad 60% and 12ypc is good. He was hardly given a shot to turn things loose until it was pretty much necessary
I mean we were joking at halftime that we had as many beers as Tech had passing yards. 3
And that's including the efforts that Burmeister put forth during the game before he got hurt. Our offensive playcalling went suuuuuper conservative once we had to go to the backup, to the point where defensively they were foolish if they even tried to play the pass.
The sad thing is, it wasn't a surprise. We've never been in a position where the backup could come in and ball out. They've never trusted the backup to run our offense since the new regime came in, and we know this because every season (except 2016?) we've had situations where we've needed to play the backup due to injury only for us to completely rip out the passing attack from the playbook and go to somewhere between run heavy and run exclusive the rest of the game.
7 yards per attempt in college...isn't mind-boggling terrible, but it's below average. And that was the better half. With the opposing defense not giving any respect to the pass.
That doesn't make it all his fault though.
No, Kadum is a man, he took responsibility.
But is he 40?
Was he put in position to succeed?
I didn't get to watch the game, but I am going to go out on a limb and say no.
With that said, you can't help but like a guy that uses failure as a motivator to work harder. It might not help in every case, but its not a bad thing.
The moment I changed the channel was in the second quarter where Kadum handed the ball off on 3rd and 15. That play was the signal to me we had already given up. I get that's a tough situation for any quarterback, but if you don't even have a play drawn up to TRY for 15 yards in that situation then what are you even doing?
Since Brad Cornelson is his QB coach, I'm going to assume that is a rhetorical question.
irrelevent.
Throwing your coach under the bus is rarely a good look for a player, especially one that could be looking for a new home next year.
A lot of people act like this $2.5m magically gets added to the football budget if it's not used to can Fuente early and I'm not sure that's the case.
It might not be money VT can necessarily count on having easily but all these arguments about "use it on the staff instead" are a little weird when it's probably coming out of a booster's pocket and not necessarily being given to the football program either way.
How many years is it amortized over? Its not like its a wham bam thing.
I believe it's the remainder of the term of the contract (basically like paying as if he were still on staff). I would assume the buyout could be negotiated to a lump sum discount (for VT) to get it off the books.
Unfortunately, all of this means that Fuente is here at least till the end of the year
If Fuente was going to be fired before end of season it would have happened. Stop hoping for it to happen. It's not going to.
On the same token, stop pretending that the 2.5 million is so important. It isn't. VT has the money and I'm sick of the "poor VT" argument. VT could easily spend the money to be a big time football program if it wanted to.
Here's where we are. Our coach is in over his head. Results on the field over his tenure tell a pretty simple story. The trend line is not hard to see. We're heading in the wrong direction and this coach has even admitted, candidly, that he's at a loss. He has no idea what to do to make things better. He is patently unfit for this job.
Here's what we don't know. What's Whit's vision? How much does he care about football? How much pride does he have? How much does he actually understand about the situation we're in?
We're going to learn about the future of this program in the next few weeks. Firing Fuente is a positive. That shows that Whit isn't completely out of touch and that he realizes a change is needed. When he fires Fuente will be telling. It's critically important to get on the market while it's still hot. Wait too long and fired Fuente when all the good candidates are off the table and we'll be right back to this same point in short order.
Is it worth waiting until the end of the season. Yeah, probably. But waiting until the buyout drops is poison. Not Firing Fuente at all puts the final nail in the coffin.
If Whit is serious about VT football he'll make the move before November ends. If he wants to make VT better but doesn't know what he's doing he'll wait till almost Christmas. If he just doesn't care or is too arrogant to notice the issues, we'll be riding the Fuente bus again in 2022.
Without giving any paywall content away, every insidery type person I've seen (including a couple that should definitely know) have indicated over the last 2 years now that money is there if needed. That doesn't mean we have Texas money or Bama Saban money to burn just because we can. But we aren't some poor school that's barely getting by looking for cash in their couch cushions and dining on Hardee's coupons. The pocket book is healthy so long as you're not reckless spending cash like sorority girls in Cabo with daddy's credit card. And they are making moves to grow the pocket book to be more aggressive in the future.
I do think one of the reasons that we are not spending is because Fuente & Staff didn't earn a raise. I am hopeful that the new staff will be earning a not-insignificant amount more than Fuente's did.
Many would argue that spending $2.5M to fire Fuente 4-8 weeks early is indeed "reckless(ly) spending cash like sorority girls in Cabo with daddy's credit card." Unless you want to give someone else on staff a shot, then there's no point in firing him now.
Firing him early, maybe. Waiting until Dec 16th just to save 2.5 million is recklessly foolish. Firing Fuente just to fire him is dumb. We need to hire someone competent to replace him and all the competent coaches will be gainfully employed by Dec 16th.
I'd guess that if Whit wants a particular coach, and that coach wants to come to VT, and the only way to get him is to pull the trigger early and pay $2.5 million more to Fuente, he'll do that.
THis is false. The agreement will be made before 12/16, and made official shortly after Fuente is fired (regardless of if that is before or after 12/16).
It is not paywall bound since it's been posted on our regular boards. Just about everyone knows the money was there last year, and a last second change not to can Fuente was made. Sands? Whit? Who knows, it is what it is. The details about said money, the who, the where it is, that can stay behind the paywalls.
The question then becomes, what is taking so long? We were ready at $10million last year, why not make the move now?
There's some vested donors who want to see Fuente succeed?
Does Whit's vision of the football program include Fuente?
Is Whit willing to allow Fuente to make staff changes to correct course for 2022 as a last ditch shot?
Does Whit believe in the upgraded recruiting trajectory (at least for the 22 class)?
Are we waiting for senior day, so Dax and Tre can hug Fuente in public?
Legitimately, what's the hold up? We as fans and donors, we should demand some answers.
There's a middle ground here that is likely true: $2.5M won't break the bank for us, but it's also not chump change.
I very much feel the opposite. There's no advantage to firing Fuente now. There's one home game left, so we won't lose much revenue there. There's nothing stopping him from having a handshake deal in place with a coach yesterday. There's no reason to announce a new hire now (they could leave right after being announced, just like Diaz left Temple).
Just wait and save the $2.5M, why not?
You can't wait until Dec 15th. 1) All the other coaches on your list will be gone. 2) It tells recruits who sign on that day he is staying. 3) Whit will allow him the dignity of finishing the season and can him the day the come back from UVA. He's not waiting to save 2.5M
This is false. I don't know where this notion comes from. The target will agree to take the job soon (if they haven't already, and it will be announced shortly after Fuente is fired.
The recruits aren't dumb. They know what's going on.
Wouldn't surprise me. We'll see.
No sane coach will take a job and sit in silence for 2 weeks and have signing period happen. I agree that the deal will be days if not hours after Fuente is done. But I can't see any coach sitting in silence until Dec 15th. He'll want a chance to connect with that class. And there is no way that we are so coveted a job that wouldn't be a deal breaker if they have multiple offers (which I'm sure on our list everyone will).
This statement is recruits aren't dumb - well then if we waited until Dec 15th to fire Fuente - I'd expect our class to be small because no "smart" recruit would sign with us if they "know what's going on" but don't know who our next coach is.
I'll direct you to a comment from a weeks ago...
We're going to take a loss on this class no matter what. Current coach will want to bring his own guys in. Current recruits may or may not like the current coach. The kids who are committing to Virginia Tech will stay. The kids who are committed to Fuente will either leave now, or enter the transfer portal. New coach will hit the transfer portal hard.
I don't understand the concern about this class. We shouldn't make a $2.5M decision based on the 6th-10th best class in the ACC...
I feel too removed from situation to assess - how committed are the players to Fu vs VT?
I'm thinking about bonds like UGA players running to the opposing sideline to hug one of their old coaches after the Ole Miss game. Maybe I am just too jaded at this point, but after watching Fuente's demeanor Friday night, I'm having a hard time picturing that kind of affection next year in the same situation. Thoughts?
I have no idea, but typically, players commit to a coach (could be a position coach), not the school.
The old adage goes "At any given time, 1/3 of the players love the coach, 1/3 hate the coach, and 1/3 are indifferent. The head coach's job is to keep the latter third from hating him."
We love to tell stories about players who found father figures from their coaches, but I think that's quite romanticized more often than not. There are people on this board who have actually played college sports who can speak to this far better than I.
We've hashed this out before, but recent moves have me worried about waiting. UTSA and SMU aggressively locked up their coaches for a reason. TT just announced a new hire for a reason. Now you could argue that us and TCU and TT already made an offer to Sonny Dykes and he chose to stay with perfect knowledge of every potential opening in the country, but the timings of these firings and announcements strongly suggest that AD's feel like they need to be officially on the market to make their move.
No doubt Whit is making moves behind the scenes and doesn't feel like he has to go public to announce, but if that was true in all situations I don't think you would see these G5 coaches sign long-term, large-buyout deals mid-season and I don't think you would see multiple schools make moves mid-season.
edit/P.S. I definitely see where you're coming from and see the logic in it. But the other moves around the country have me spooked + I think there's a strong possibility that our prospective coach, as someone below called it, "beamered" us last year and I wonder if that happens if we are getting a coach to sign early instead of waiting for a buyout drop. Of course this is where Whit makes his money, so just have to trust he knows what he's doing.
WHOA Buddy - you just grouped a lot of different situations together that have no business being put together
edit: phrasing
Have to admit, some of that extra context is a tad comforting. We'll see how it shakes out.
I'm not saying fire him now. I'm saying fire him as soon as the season ends, before all the available coaches become unavailable
I think this approach is reasonable, but I do have one concern. Last year, it looked for all the world like Whit was going to fire Fuente and was forced to change plans at the last minute. [1] This is why I suggested that we follow LSU's approach and make it known publicly that Fu is gone at the end of the year, so that there's no doubt that the job is open. Otherwise, any candidate with a competing offer has to weigh the risk that VT might change its mind at the last minute again, potentially leaving that candidate high & dry.
[1] I understand that this is speculation, but it's reasonable speculation, and the few people who know exactly what happened, and why, aren't sharing those details.
If a candidate wont tentatively accept because they think VT is going to get cold feet and change it's mind at the last second we've already lost because of much bigger problems.
Hard disagree.
If you get your guy now and have everything signed off you don't lose him if another, better job opens up.
Is that worth doing now? $2.5M+ question.
What kind of guy can you get now? The guys we want are going to coach the rest of the regular season for their teams.
If, by now, you mean when the clock hits 0 on the UVA game, I agree.
This is where I am at the moment. There doesn't seem to be any real advantage to firing Fuente now. I do, however, believe that waiting until Dec 16th puts us too far behind the eight ball. I don't think it's worth the 2.5 million to risk waiting 3 weeks. We need to get on the market as soon as possible (Nov 27) and move quickly to secure the next head coach before somebody else does.
I lost faith in Whit after last year's press conference. His opportunity to regain my faith is coming up at the end of this month. If he waits until the middle of December the decision he makes had better be damn impressive. If he can save the 2.5 mill AND sign another home-run coach my faith will be fully restored. Otherwise, I'm likely going to be about as done with Whit as I have been with Fuente for the last two years.
Maybe, maybe not. TTU just did it, so it *is* possible.
TTU hired a position coach from Baylor (yeah he is associate HC, but not a coordinator.) I think if Whit pulled something like that, most fans would be say we should have waited.
Nobody on the fans list is in that category.
Yeah and VT is a better job than TTU so we could hire someone in a better position (coordinator from a big program, HC from a G5 etc.) from a school that may be willing/able to leave prior to the end of the year.
I have no idea, but I think it's possible.
Neither of those things will happen with a coordinator or a HC that we would want. That level of coach doesn't abandon their current job for another job that will be available on November 28th.
And I am not sure I would want that coach if they were willing to because they might do it to us, too.
Not True - Just look at when Manny Diaz left Temple after 4 days to take the Miami job.
Let's say (hypothetically) we hire Brett Pry (PSU's DC), then James Franklin leaves PSU for USC, then PSU wants to hire Pry - If Pry thinks the PSU job is better than VT, he's going to leave, even if it's been just 4 days since being signed to VT.
well, if we're smart, when we sign Pry we'll include a clause where if he breaches the contract he owes us 10 million (which, PSU would pay, obviously) so we get our Fuente Buyout money back. We're back to square one, but at least we're rid of Fuente for free.
Which temple did, Diaz cost Miami a bunch of money.
I can assure you that Whit is serious about football. My impression is that he knows his job pretty well.
It's a little easy for us as fans to get worked into a frenzy on these message boards, but I still have a lot of confidence in Whit, who knows VT's capabilities and finances, to look out for the future of VT football.
After last year's presser, I'm not sure how you can be so confident that Whit is serious about football. That was THE time to fire Fuente. Why didn't he?
Circumstances beyond his control, whether you want to believe the theory that he got overridden by the university or that his choice fell through.
We will never know. Neither is good and both support my argument that Whit either doesn't know what he's doing or VT doesn't care about Football.
Part of my point is that waiting for the buyout to drop really limits your choices. If we're going to fire him, it has to be done the day after the uva game. Waiting until December will result in yet another awkward press conference because Whit couldn't get his guy.
No.
No.
Maybe.
No.
No.
Ah yes, the well respected and successful AD doesn't know what he is doing or care about his biggest sport but you know all of this without knowing him or the inner workings/discussions in the department...
I don't really care about Turkey Legs (everything's made up and the points don't matter...yada yada) but I am genuinely curious why this is getting DV'd
If you offer any alternative explanation of the situation that is contrary to Whit being an all-knowing and all-seeing genius, and everything is calculated because he has some master plan, you are downvoted. I'm getting sick of it as well. Dude has done a pretty good job with many things and has also totally screwed up our football program. He deserves some flak.
Deserving some flak and
Are two entirely different things.
Whit's hire of Fuente hasn't worked out. Was it a mistake at the time? Should he have done more digging to realize that Dickey & Odom we're necessary pieces of the puzzle for Fuente to succeed? Maybe. Some of that is hindsight influenced.
But there's no way his retaining Fuente last year was his choice and his choice alone, no one calls press conferences the day their coach's buyout drops to defend them in such a manner...something happened behind the scenes and his hand was forced.
He's done an excellent job with the VT Olympic sports, and a decent job revamping fundraising. To suggest that he's clueless is wrong, and to suggest that VT or Whit or Sands do not care about football is foolish.
If Whit can't make it happen this year, we can have the conversation around him being in over his head in regards to football which is (fairly or not) the most important thing he does.
Agree with this to some extent, but he really defended Fu staunchly in that presser last Dec. If he was shot down by someone, a simple statement that Fu would be retained as the coach in 2021 would have sufficed. Instead he clearly spelled out many reasons why he thought Fu was the right fit for the job, including that really bad statement that many people in the profession we would know all speak highly of this offense. That was either a complete lie that he spun to fans and donors, or he truly believed that statement. It shows to some extent some disconnect with football.
I'm 100% convinced that's it. Wasn't shot down, someone pulled out last minute and he had to go make the program look like it wasn't going off the rails.
Or, maybe that press conference was a rushed and somewhat poor attempt at projecting confidence in Fuente, even though a day prior, Whit was actively trying to replace him. Hard to sit there and lie through your teeth in that situation, even though that is likely what was happening.
The way things work is that you either fully support your guy, or you fire him on the spot.
Any middle ground there would spell disaster.
So calling Whit a liar or disconnected doesn't reflect the real world.
I heard there was this thing called Covid, don't know if sources can confirm. /s
I wanted him fired last year. I wanted him fired after 2019. But I won't take that whole shitshow last year at face value, there were extenuating circumstances. It wasn't THE time to fire him, it was only the time where the fanbase had clearly quit on him.
My honest guess as to why we had that bizarre presser to announce we're not firing our coach is that we got Beamered by the guy we had lined up to replace him.
Just a guess, no sauces
That's a good point about the finances. I feel like the extra $2.5M of the buyout is more spun up in the heads of the fans than anyone actually involved with it.
But Whit has to balance out all sorts of numbers. What's the potential effects on revenue - both in ticket sales and donations - if he retains or fires Fuente? How much would he have to budget for salaries of a new coaching staff? How much bonus money is not getting paid because the team isn't hitting certain goals? Which pool of money funds individual aspects?
We'll said. I hope all the recent success of Cincy football pushes Whit to compete more and get VT back and hire a coach who can recruit. Fuente is an awkward dude through and through.
On the same token, stop pretending that the 2.5 million is so important. It isn't. VT has the money and I'm sick of the "poor VT" argument. VT could easily spend the money to be a big time football program if it wanted to.
I'm going to disagree here.
If VT could spend to be a big time football program, it would. At least if it didn't come at the expense of all of the other programs.
Pretty sure Whit's vision is to build competitive programs across the board. So the 2.5 million is important.
Yeah, and I bet last year really played havoc with budgets.
For real though. Everyone freaks out because we can't spend and then when we have a chance to have a new HC lined up and everything ready for the 16th, people want to light $2.5m on fire because they realllllllly don't like Fuente and want to stick it to him! It is all but guaranteed Whit is working to find a new coach now. He isn't going to fire him until he has someone lined up that is worth the investment. The good coaches won't be gone just because we haven't officially announced their name yet...
While I don't think this rumor is true, today is the day we will find out. If Whit comes out for the 1pm (ish) presser, then he's gone.
Don't hold your breath.
We should all be prepared to be disappointed. Not just today, but possibly Dec 16.
Way too much chatter between Friday and this morning. The final decision sits on Whit's desk.
At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm starting to prepare myself for this possibility. There may be some money ready for the buyout, but the available options might not be strong enough. I'm sure VT will be on the hook for some of the buyout too. We have unfortunately gotten ourselves into a financial situation that I don't think we can easily get out of with this buyout, and I'm certain donations and ticket sales will take a nosedive if he is retained again, compounding the problem further.
I think Fu is here in 22.
Maaaayyyybe they do something like what UF just did and can some of the assistants and keep the HC. But VT decision making has historically been methodical and conservative.
I think it's too late for that experiment. Maybe at the end of last year that woulda been acceptable, but Fuente has lost the fan base at this point, I don't think there is an OC out there that is going to quiet the "Fire Fu-ente!" chants, unless they come in and turn it into a top 15 offense in their first year
Fu is gone at the end of the season. No way Whit keeps him for '22. If he did, he would have to extend his contract (can't recruit on short term)...no way that will happen.
Just a conversation of whether he's gone early (now) or at season end.
The juxtaposition of these posts is amusing to me. Whit is either a genius or an idiot. The fanbase has no idea what is going to happen. I can't tell if that is a good thing or not.
He is not an idiot. You don't get to that point of a career as an idiot. Whit has always held his cards tight to his chest. He has been pretty much silent recently so to me, that means he is in the back channels and calculating who, when, etc.
No comment on Whit, but there have been a ton of idiot ADs out there. Lots of idiots get to high positions for many reasons.
I have no reason at all to think Whit's an idiot.
He's made some inspired hires. The harder he works, the luckier he gets. Fuente is a head scratcher for most people.
just to be clear, I'm not calling him an idiot. I'm also not calling him a genius, tbf.
I just think it's hilarious how two comments can be so completely opposite. We really have no idea what to expect. That's the point.
I spent enough time around upper level admins during my tenure to feel this way. And to be fair, I called no one an idiot. Hopefully I'm totally wrong, but it's not what my gut reading is.
Feels highly unlikely unless talks between VT and Fu's agent get resolved and likely will not be this soon.
I don't think it's true. We will wait until Dec 16th because 1) we are in no financial position to waste $2.5 mil, and 2) the longer this drags out with no mutual separation announced, it makes me think Fu really wants his golden parachute more than anything. Which honestly makes me lose what little respect I had left for him, if any. He will force VT to wait and fire him so he can cash out. Enjoy the money that you don't deserve.
some people see it as pissing away 2.5 million. I don't. I think the longer we keep him the further and further we're setting this program back and the more it is going to cost in the long run.
If you think paying a professional a lot of money to do a job is expensive, just wait to see how expensive it is to pay someone who can't do the job properly.
It is abundantly clear at this stage that Fuente is not capable of doing the job he's being paid to do. If we wait until Dec. 16th to hire someone else, we're going to have a tough time hiring someone who can do any better. Firing him on November 27th gives us the best chance to upgrade. The up front cost looks scary to some people but it will be well worth it if we're able to get the head coach we want. Waiting 3 more weeks could mean the difference between hiring a hot, sought after coach or hiring a re-tread.
Regardless, it is critically important that Whit get this right. If we hire a dud of a coach and he can't inspire the fans, donors or recruits and the product on the field fails to improve it will become exponentially difficult for VT to climb out of that hole. We're at the precipice right now and moving swiftly and getting the right guy in the program will go a long way to getting VT back on track in a reasonable amount of time. The ACC is down right now and VT has plenty going for it. A competent coach could have this program competing for ACC Championships fairly quickly. But if Whit messes this up and we continue falling off, this opportunity is going to pass us by and we could end up being the bottom of the ACC barrel for at least a decade, if not longer.
That's a very reasonable take. But I think the $2.5 mil is a bigger deal not because we want it to be, but that's unfortunately our financial reality. The money just may not be there to pay the buyout, plus potentially the buyout of a new coach, plus a salary high enough to entice a top candidate and adequate resources for staff. We gambled big time on Fu and lost. Now we are paying for it watching the slow death of our program. I'm starting to think we may not even be able to make a move this year. Remember how relaxed Fu was after UVA last year? He thought he was getting canned and getting a big pay day. This is a depressing situation for VT fans, but poetic justice for Whit and Fu. Whit will have to suffer the consequences of that massive extension and buyout, and Fu won't get his golden parachute and will be forced to work a job he doesn't want, with no hopes of getting another P5 job.
I don't understand this take at all. It's his money that was negotiated on his behalf by the agent he pays to do so. Not taking it isn't some selfless act. Its just dumb. Taking it isn't selfish or heartless, it is the pay the athletic department agreed to pay him.
Regardless of the terms of how I leave a job, I'm cashing the last paycheck.
I understand that, but it also doesn't mean it's deserved. We will have spent over $30 mil on someone to completely gut the program when it's all said and done. The least he could do would be agree to take the $7.5 now instead of after Dec 15 and run, but it appears that's not the case. It may be business at the end of the day but it doesn't mean it's not also a garbage situation.
Life Pro Tip: You don't get what you deserve. You get what you (or your agent) negotiate.
Dude is either going to get $7.5 mil on Dec 16, or he could chose to take it now and spare himself more misery for another month. He's not getting $10 mil no matter how you slice it. At this point he is just making this a very ugly exit.
He's really only making it ugly to a fanbase that at best feels apathy towards him (but mostly hates). If he were to leave now, he is abandoning the players, some of whom really like him.
Three months after he's gone, the only people who are even going to remember how ugly this was are the fans. And I'm guessing at that point, Fuente could care less (he probably already does care less what the fans think, if he thinks/knows he's gone).
Yeah, deserves got nothing to do with it.
You get what's in the contract.
If I'm Fu, and Whit comes at me asking me to take $7.5M today and walk, instead of forcing him to fire me today for $10M, I'm cutting that convo off real quick
Maybe. But where is FU working next year? He gets $2.5M more now, but he will also be looking for a job on December 17. What jobs will be out there? Will he earn a paycheck at all in 2022? He has a longer term view to think about as well.
Don't be naive. Getting a 7.5m check or 10m check is enough to live off for the rest of his life. He isn't/shouldn't be living paycheck to paycheck and therefore can more than afford a short hiatus. Furthermore, back channels exist for a reason. Whit is certainly using them and, if he is being pragmatic, so is Fuente. The only way I see Fuente leaving without taking the buyout is if he has a job lined up and resigns after the UVA game. The reality is saving the 2.5m could cost a lot more than just paying the 10m and cutting ties after UVA.
This is a serious question because I really don't know the answer - is the Buyout really going to be just one big check that we cut? or will it be paid out in installments? If it is paid out in installments, what kind of installments are we talking about?
I'm sure that is something that is being discussed behind the scenes. Probably what amount are we going to pay (i.e. will you take $7.5 now instead of us waiting until Dec 16) and then after that how will the buyout be paid (lump sum vs installments). A lot of people have alluded to Fu already being told he won't be retained next year. I wonder if his agent is pressing for the full $10 because he was effectively fired before Dec 15. I have no doubt Fu will squeeze for everything he can on this buyout, he won't get another P5 job paying comparable salary for a while if ever again after this.
Going from memory - it's quarterly installments over the life of the contract.
If that's true then the 2.5 million shouldn't hold us back at all. We're likely to make more money over the life of the contract with a new coach than we'll "save" by waiting for the buyout to drop
It's not $2.5 million, it's $10 million.
So while not impossible, it may well make sense to try and lower it by $2.5 million. It's $2.5 million more that the next guy could probably put to better use than just throwing it away. Just depends on what the next step is.
But yeah, $2.5 million out of a $100 million per year program is something that can be figured out, if Whit needs to pull the trigger to get who he wants.
I get that fans are anxious, but we're really working with less than a full picture, even if our picture seems all to clear on Saturdays.
Math is hard 🙄
It's not that hard, really.
And when it's money, it clarifies things really quickly.
Of course he could live off of it. I'm saying what are his personal and professional plans after VT and is there some value to him personally to be a free agent prior to December 17? If he knows he's gone, but he could leave sooner and take a smaller buyout, giving him an opportunity to rehab his image in 2022. Could he go be the offensive coordinator at Alabama for example? Will they or someone like that pay him $1.5M to do so? Will those type of jobs be full by 12/17? What will his value be if the team goes into a tailspin and finishes 4-8? It's not all one sided here in terms of VT wanting this to end sooner rather than later.
If he leaves on his own, he gets nothing. He will wait until he gets fired, or he and Whit agree to "mutually part ways" with his buyout in hand.
Or C he gets fired before Dec 16 with a buyout but negotiated down from 10M to something less. Which benefits both sides, if he wants to coach next year, and possibly helps him professionally escape from what is fast becoming a dumpster fire.
People who coach at this level want to continue doing so. Why isn't Saban just sitting at home drinking margaritas? He's probably worth $100 Million.
I'm sure Fuente is highly competitive and wants to succeed. The money is great but is not the be all end all for that type of person.
Not likely to happen. Why would he take less? Any job he would be considered for (P5 OC, G5 HC) will be available on 12/16. And it's likely that he might choose to take a year off to reset.
I just explained why he would take less. You're not grasping the situation from Fuentes point of view, there's more to it than just money.
No most jobs will be filled by then. Things move quickly after Nov 28. It's like musical chairs.
Taking a year off will not improve his chances for the next job. And if you think he's concerned about money and unwilling to negotiate then you're saying he's going to forego a year of salary?
There are 18 days between the end of the regular season and 12/16. There will be coaching movement into bowl season and then after the end of the NFL regular season. Its not possible for all the moves to happen before then as they are sequential.
Taking a year off may not improve his chances of getting another job (I think it does as people forget the details of how bad this year has been), but it won't hurt them either. And he may need a break to figure out what he needs to do differently at his next gig.
And I am not saying he's concerned about money, but he won't leave it on the table, either.
I see both sides as well.
A) You'd have to have a gun in hand to have me give up $2.5M, personally.
B) He's going to make good money somewhere next year if he gets hired on, so perhaps a negotiated buyout would make sense - if anyone wants him. I'm not sure anyone does!
If it was gonna happen this week it would've been Saturday or Sunday then presser announced for today. We would already know.
Lots of coaches getting canned at the position/coordinator level. If we are keeping FU, he needs to make some changes
Yeah, but we all know how this is gonna go, right?
We'll fire Vice and the entire Defensive staff. Then we'll promote Corny to Primary Associate Head Coach Supreme or some other made up title, give him a 10% raise, and hire the Special Teams coach at Campbell University to be the DC, and the Safeties coach at Coopers Union to coach OL, paying them both $75k a year.
Has a coach ever been fired in year one? /s
Has a coach ever been fired in year one? /s
I love it and we need to ask that to Whit as well....
It's year two though.
Not when incredibly talented people think the offensive scheme is very well thought of, adaptable, and hard to prepare for
George O'Leary and Mike Price on line 1...
"Roll damn Tide!"
"It's rolling, baby, it's rolling!"
To me there's still a decently high chance Fuente doesn't get fired this offseason, through elements outside of Whit's control. I know I've said it a million times so here goes the broken record again: I'm firmly convinced that the bizarre, very out of character presser from last year was due to a candidate pulling out last minute, or a donor getting cold feet on dropping some big sum of money to go towards the buyout. To take Whit at his word, from when he said he had the money secured for a buyout, I'm going to guess it was the former. Also, common sense dictates that securing funding would be easier than finding a quality candidate.
With LSU and USC open, that could mean MSU (Mel Tucker->LSU) and PSU open (Franklin -> USC). We're not going to beat those programs out for anyone.
Dan Mullen jettisoning coordinators means he may get another year, but who knows. Could Napier go there if it does open?
I'm not sure who is on Whit's list, but as he whittles down possibilities (people who aren't interested, or through further research aren't good fits) and other programs that are in better positions start sniffing around...does he get to the point in which he either keeps Fu or makes a change just for the sake of making a change?
To me, that bolsters the argument for canning Fuente sooner rather than later and eating the $2.5M. Can you risk another backchanneled handshake agreement falling through?
I really don't think we can afford to not move on from Fuente this year. The apathy has reached an all time high, and some of these results are just full-on "it's over" type results.
The Pitt game and the BC game stand out as games you simply cannot have on the hot seat. Truly unacceptable performances with a couple high-effort performances against Cuse and GT inbetween. Nobody is questioning whether this team is still fighting, but the way everything in this program is trending at the moment demands change.
I'm definitely in agreement with that line of thinking.
Ultimately, I'd bet you cost yourself more than the $2.5M and (in the long run) more than the whole sum of the buyout if you keep Fuente on much longer because of the decrease in ticket sales, recruiting losses, overall damage to the perception of VT Football's 'brand' etc.
However, there's a limited number of guys who you want and who would possibly take the job. No idea what happens if Whit's looking at a list that's full of names that have been crossed out.
Yep. I think the only way we don't move on is if Whit is 100% certain he will not be able to get a candidate he deems acceptable. However, at this point I am growing more and more confident that we will have a new head coach next year.
So is there where we are? We just need a coach that's "acceptable?"
I think you've misinterpreted the tone of how I used that. When I say "acceptable" candidates as they pertain to Whit Babcock, that is me operating under the assumption that Whit is very particular about who he would be willing to hire as the head football coach. I do not believe he is willing to hire a candidate he doesn't truly believe in. So I am giving Whit credit here in terms of how I think he is holding this hire to a high personal standard. I don't think he's willing to dip to his 4th/5th type option. I just don't know who the options on his personal list are, as he is notoriously tight lipped.
No, I get what you were saying, I was just being cynical.
I can't blame you for that. It's certainly difficult to believe good things will happen to our football program giving all the recent trends, but I'm trying to stay optimistic that we can find the right guy.
Well, when you're on a downward trend, if there's no bottom, you can't ever reverse to an upward trend. Although it's been a long time since I had calculus and I might be remembering this wrong.
I mean, I can sort of visualize this. Whit with a long line of people outside his office waiting for an interview, while an admin assistant walks down the line handing out questionnaires with items like "You meet a recruit's mom, she's hot. Do you a) start an affair with her and charge expenses to your school credit card while on recruiting trips, b) ignore her, or c) greet her warmly but professionally?" and "The 1999 Virginia Tech football team was a) the greatest in school history, led by Michael Vick b) a pretty good one, led my Marcus Vick, or c) just another bunch of people to meet?"
While in the back office, there's another admin assistant on the phone while a third is busy typing out a contract, while saying, "Wait, you said Walmart is offering $15 an hour in some places? Do you know how to change salary in this PDF?"
I think we unfortunately may be finding ourselves in a vicious cycle with this coaching situation. We can't fire him during the season due to the buyout, so we try to negotiate him down and work the back channels on a new hire until Dec 16. Unfortunately, other jobs are opening up and it makes it hard to lock up a candidate. We then get to the end of the season and don't like the candidate pool or have our top choices bail on us, so we decide to hang on to Fu another year, wait for the buyout to drop again, and try our luck next year. In the meantime, the program falls further, fan and donor interest decreases more, and revenues start declining, compounding our financial issues with the buyout further. I don't like this at all but I'm worried that's where we are going to find ourselves.
This is why last year was a gift because Auburn was the only other relevant opening.
Damn. This is some salty stuff here.
Fuente has not lived up to expectations, and if VT has any left to be held to, he should probably not be coaching again. I don't know if this program is turning any corners, if anything, I know for me that I've seen enough.
Downvote if you want:
Another overall theme here is that people really care about VT football and supporting the school. Perhaps we can do that in a way that remains positive. There is enough real negativity going on in the world. Maybe find a way to say we need a change without tearing people down (both coaches and our fellow VT fans). This used to be a fun place.
I upvoted. Personally I use a lot of self-deprecating humor in my day-to-day, but a reminder to incorporate more positive vibes is always appreciated.
With hoops starting this week, and Fuente's tenure coming to a close, I hope TKP becomes a more fun place too.
Winning of course being the greatest panacea of all. There is no way that people joined this board without wanting to share their passion with others, but spread positive passion.
Positive passion is also the scent of candle I am selling on Goop. Like and follow for more lifehacks /s
We (TKP) can also move away from negative vs. positive, and focus on being insightful and funny. Tell me something cool about a coaching candidate you're really hopeful for. Show me some new stat on where Fuente failed (I find this stuff interesting). Just be more insightful than "Fuck Fuente, he sucks!"
This x100000
I watched the game friday and went to bed not thrilled but not surprised. Thought I might hop on twitter yesterday afternoon to see if there was any discussion about potential hires or anything like that. All I saw was personal accusation after personal attack after personal attack on things ranging from very personal shit to claiming Fuente and the medical staff dont get along. I really get this sucks for alot of people but people really need to take a big step away and just breathe. This stuff sucks to read and see and is the main reason I rarely go near VT twittershpere. I hope people can reflect and calm down and quit with the personal attacks and trying to stir the pot just for the sake of taking advantage of a riled up crowd and spreading more bull shit for the sake of retweets and find something more constructive to do with their time until basketball starts and we can all celebrate coach mike young and all hes done.
T minus 38 days and counting. Hope springs eternal.
Lots of good points here. Personally I think it's clear that Fuente has not worked out. I supported him longer than most, but especially with the annual parade of top recruits heading to the transfer portal, and the recent piece that Bitter ran, interviewing all those HS coaches about how VA universities recruit their schools, the writing is on the wall. It's clearly time to move on.
That said, I believe Fuente truly loves the school, has represented the university well and has honored our traditions. The awarding of #25 to a different player each week is a nice touch. I don't wish any ill on him. I hope he finds more success at his next destination, and I hope all the vitriol being sent his way isn't impacting him or especially his family too much.
It's possible to separate the man from the coach, and recognize that the latter hasn't worked out without stomping with both feet on the former. This sort of decency is exactly why I'm such a die-hard fan. Doing things ethically and with integrity and high concern for the players and their well-being is synonymous with what Beamer built. I'd take a failed coach who remains faithful to that that over a coach that takes us to the NC by abandoning all of that every damn time.
I'm gonna start taking bets with the people who think Fuente won't get fired, since so many people are saying they think he'll come back. Hell I'll even give you 5-1 odds.
I think it's entirely possible he coaches somewhere next year! /s
Fuente and co. were all what we wanted at one time, he was a Hokie and happy to move his family here as were the other coaches. I don't wish them any ill will. I just hope and pray everyone goes peacefully their own way. Hard to imagine him wanting to stay with the stadium yelling to fire him. At the Duke game regardless of the outcome my wife and I will not participate in that kind of belittling someone else, regardless of the good or bad he has done. The athletic director, president, and everyone else who matters knows what the fans want at this point. My wife and I will just enjoy our road trip from Hampton Roads to Southwest Va this weekend, enjoy stopping by sheetz, hopefully decent Fall weather, and being in Blacksburg reminiscing about the past and looking forward to a better future for the football program. At this point I hope Hokie fans don't become so toxic that Blacksburg becomes an undesireable place for a coach to want to come to. Just because other schools put their coaches through Hell at the end of their tenure there doesn't mean Virginia Tech has to do the same.
nice post! And agreed, "fire Fuente" chants have no value. I want him gone just as much as the next guy but I'm not going to shout it at the top of my lungs in the stadium. He's still a human. He deserves to be treated with some dignity. He also is clearly unfit for this job and should be shown the door. The two are not mutually exclusive.
He is a human and had the ability to understand he has not performed to expectations and that fans aren't happy with him. As long as they don't boo the players, the fans can chant fire Fuente all they want. If you want fans to go to the game to support the team and spend money but also have their voice heard, it is a clean act.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
Don't boo him. Make whatever moves we need to make regarding our future, but acting like an entitled fan isn't so much helping anyone.
If he's still there, it's our fault for not finding someone else and moving on. And it may well be because we're trying to save $2.5 million. That's on us, not him.
From the guy that also said:
You can fire people without disrespecting them. I'm just a fan on a message board that the coaches are never going to read. I'm not in the stands yelling "Fire Fuente" while he's standing on the sidelines. There's a big difference. I don't really care though. I think he should be fired. He was hired to do a job and he hasn't done it adequately. Most people are fired for that sort of performance. He's not, nor should he be, immune.
They're putting a sheets in Blacksburg, and I think it falls on the AD to not drag out a doomed situation to avoid dragging the coach through hell as you put it.
I agree, chants like that are kind of lowbrow. I get the sentiment though from true fans over decades that have invested so much into VT football and the level of dissatisfaction is boiling over now. BS, fire Fu, etc. chants are lame and more suited to programs and universities that do not have a level of fandom or game understanding that VT fans generally do. Though, part of that is a product of the on-field result and recent students, etc. have never even seen a good VT team. Thus, arguably the culture, etc. is being diluted each year as we digress into apathy and irrelevance. I think some of the chanting has resulted partially from Fuente's hard-headed, non-humble, know it all disposition that was imposed on us and the program over the last several years which he has tried to fix and back fired exponentially. A coach can be a stallworth of kiss-offs-ness if they win championships, but if their program is turned into a talentless and non-coaching mess, you can have no basis for it, and rightly so, can take that clow show shit somewhere else, "FIRE FUENTE."
I think some of the chanting has resulted partially from Fuente's hard-headed, non-humble, know it all disposition that was imposed on us
Bingo. I have no problem with the Fire Fuente chants because of how he responds to media questions like we're all a bunch of idiots. He makes several million per year and will have another 7.5-10 mil coming to him just for being bad at his job. If he doesn't like the chants, win. If he can't win and doesn't like the chants, he can afford ear plugs.
I just want to make this last statement of my "reservations" in Whit before I drop it for now.
I feel like many of our fans who support him look up to him the way you look up to your parents as all knowing perfect people before you grow up and realize they're just normal people with flaws who try and do their best but make mistakes same as everyone else. Same in business. We all have the idea that executives know everything and are great at steering companies then you get closer to it and you realize most of them are on a three cycle of come in, slam their fist on the desk, not get results and off to a new executive job elsewhere.
I guess what I'm trying to say is Whit is human and I think his experience and results so far are whelming. Not overwhelming, not underwhelming, just whelming. This is probably the biggest decision of his career so far and is different than every other one he's had to make.
He could nail this hire and I hope he does, but a little bit of skepticism is healthy. "I Trust in Whit" comes across as naive and cultish. There is a very real chance that our next coach is also a dud. Just prepare yourselves.
It's also not just Whit's decision, he also has a boss, who also has a boss. He certainly has a lot of say in the decision, but when the the highest paid employee is being hired/fired you can bet Whit doesn't have free rain to do whatever he wants, like he might with say the tennis coach (nothing against the tennis coach or team). When that many dollars/resources are involved a lot of people have to be in agreement and the final decision is made at the highest level.
He does have a boss, but he owns the Athletic Department and it's his job to determine what the best direction for the department is, pitch that idea to his boss and the BOD and convince them of several things: 1) he knows what he is doing 2) he knows why Fuente failed and why his next choice won't 3) why his next choice is worth the money. He needs to use facts and figures to come to these decisions so they are unarguable.
It's very similar to pitching capital expansion projects.
Agreed, very similar to pitching a capital expansion project. Even if your pitch is perfect and it makes all the sense in the world to, if your boss isn't on board for what ever reason, it just isn't happening.
When you're making that pitch you should have your expected RoR, payback period, the benefits and capabilities being added, the risks of not undertaking and a plan that is convincing enough they don't say no. That's part of the job.
Not to mention it's not an elevator pitch, you and your boss should already be somewhat on the same page.
I agree that a little bit of skepticism is healthy. Simultaneously we need to have reasonable expectations of what an AD can and cannot be tasked to achieve. It is unclear to me how much credit Whit should receive for some of the lauded achievements during his tenure.
Whit took over at the end of January 2014 and Buzz was hired mid March 2014. Buzz' contract was up at Marquette and there was a lot of chatter that he had decided he wasn't coming back. He is known for liking rebuilds, VT played in a prestigious conference that would expand his brand, it was obvious JJ wasn't coming back and this job would be open. My suspicion is that Buzz wanted to come here as much as Whit pulled a great flip and convinced him to leave Marquette. Whit stills deserves credit for seeing it through and making it happen but circumstances may have gifted us Buzz.
Mike Young is a stud. We all love him. Hokie Nation loves him. At the time of the hire, the narrative was Whit settled for MY after whiffing on 3 or 4 other candidates (Cinn, Seton Hall, Buffalo coach all were higher on the list).How much credit should Whit receive for MY working out so well after the fact when he would not have been our coach if Whit didn't strike out with the others?
The Fuente hire was arguably Whit's best in the moment achievement because by all accounts Fu was our top choice and Whit nailed the transition from Beamer while retaining Bud. It just didn't work out on the football field.
This brings me to my main point which is that there aren't many really good coaches and the ones that are are either A) blue blood established coaches that we can't afford or B) up and comers who are not easy to identify ahead of the time. Anyone we hire will be in category B and we will not know with any certainty how good they will be until after the fact. I think the task of hiring a football coach is impossibly difficult. If it weren't, that list of buyouts bankrupting college athletic departments wouldn't be so bad and the NFL wouldn't churn through coaches left and right. If NFL teams with billions of dollars at disposal and career football gurus throughout their organizations can screw up hiring coaches year after year, is it really reasonable to expect a college AD to nail the hire at a tier 2/3 program with very limited resources?
I think identifying great up and coming coaches is extremely difficult and if consistently doing this is how you measure an AD then you have unreasonable expectations. The AD needs to fundraise, weave athletics into the identity of the university, make the school a desirable place to coach/play, manage the contracts of the coaches, and manage the brand. Those are the metrics that are reasonable to judge an AD by. In these respects I would give Whit a C overall. I think he has done an average job at best. I limit how much of his grade is impacted by coaching hires because so much of that is out of his control and only knowable in hindsight.
Does a C equal whelmed?
Yeah we agree on the grade for Whit. The point of my post to explain why I grade him where I do. I think fans put too much emphasis on the ADs coaching hires in determining good AD bad AD.
So you're saying with 'B' being the only option we should hire Will Healy and at least have a positive, energetic leader who can connect with players and fans? ;-)
I could definitely get behind that. I think "fit" is one part of the coaching hire the AD has some control over. Most people don't want Freeze regardless of how good he may be.
What is the cost of a blue blood coach vs the cost of what Fuente did to the football program over 6 years?
I'd wager that Fuente's destruction of the program is 3-5 times more expensive that the cost of a blue blood coach.
I get that VT isn't as prestigious as LSU, USC, etc and therefore it will be more difficult to hire a blue blood coach, but from a financial perspective it is simply question of how much risk you want to take and do you want to spend your money on the front or back end.
Reminds me of a meme I saw.
You think hiring an elite contractor is expensive?
Try hiring a cheap one.
True story, hired a group of contractors run by a Honduran fellow, all Latinos of course, and had a wonderful week with them as they renovated the basement of my mother's home due to a massive mold infestation. Replaced all the drywall, ceilings, and wrapped all the old metal ducts with insulation to stop them from weeping. They were great guys who worked hard and I enjoyed speaking Spanish with them once they realized that the Gringo was fluent and didn't care about their status. The next week I had to pay $2000 to an electrician to come and diagnose and then repair all of the electrical problems that they caused because none of them had any business touching electrical installations. Live and learn my fellow Hokies.
Try hiring a cheap contractor- great take. I am a contractor, and live and die by this. If we screw it up, we fix it. It is simple as that. Cheap can be hidden by many things, drywall or dirt work equally as well to mask bad work.
I can't believe we had a thread this long for a baseless rumor from a twitter handle created last month...
If you can't believe the length of this thread over a baseless rumor, then "you ain't TKP'ing hard enough" /s 😂
Welcome to TKP
Most of this thread is not related to the rumor as much as this being the new thread to discuss wanting Fuente gone and people educating us on the entire inner workings of the AD and CFB hiring in general since we are all experts now.
We're all just trying to will it into FUition
Wait! The reason we don't have a decision yet is because Whit still hasn't received all the Fuente performance questionnaires back from the opponents' head coaches. How can we expect Whit to make a decision before he knows what the other coaches think about Fuente's performance?
Another brutal, defeated, low, energy, barely audible presser from Fu this afternoon. His body language is screaming I'm out. Painful to watch.
https://hokiesports.com/sports/football
Two most painful parts:
1) Seeing him admit how good some of the QB play is in the ACC right now and we aren't even close to being part of that conversation. QB whisperer OUCH.
2) He admitted to having seen Wake and Hartman play, and then said he "hasn't seen as much of them [LOLUVA]." How have you not been paying closer attention to your school's rival!? I know a coach's week is super busy and he has to spend most of his film/TV time watching the upcoming opponent, but you have to pay attention to your rival the whole season. You can't just cram and watch their film the week of rival game. I don't like that, but maybe he assumes he won't be around for that game.
on the other hand, if he rattled off a bunch of stuff about uva, people would get mad at him for not concentrating on our upcoming opponent.
VT and Fuente both need a fresh start...and i look forward to that happening hopefully in a few weeks, and then we can start looking forward to the new staff and stop nitpicking and overanalyzing every little thing Fuente says or does.
Seriously???
There is a lot to complain about with Fuente, but not paying enough attention to your rival, who you play the last game of the season, during the year is not on the list. What UVA does on a week to week basis doesn't matter until the week we play them.
I mean we used to be proud of the win streak we had against UVA. Fuente acting like that team is barely relevant to VT football. With this attitude, UVA going to start a win streak of their own.
Or he has happened to turn on a Wake game or replay when he has had time and UVA was not on or in a competitive game??? Stop trying to find stuff to be mad about
Sorry, that's a stretch. I know we're all ready for Fuente to move on, but you don't have to bend over backwards trying to find some way to interpret every word out of his mouth as a negative.
Getting hyperfocused on UVA is a good way to let them live rent free in our heads.
They got hyperfocused on us and we rattled off 15 straight wins.
Good grief guys...sorry for being too negative about Fuente. Not sure why my comment/observation struck a nerve. Wasn't trying to overanalyze anything. Just commented on something that stood out to me.
I was honestly surprised, even as busy as coaches are, that he said he hasn't seen much of UVA. Of course, I don't know how college coaches do their jobs week to week. Just surprising and I would've expected him to have seen more of UVA than Wake. And everyone around here offers plenty of armchair coaching and QB'ing; so I have no problem saying that I want our coach putting some focus and emphasis on our rivals and ditch the brutal coach speak that is "next opponent", "1-0", "don't look ahead". Because that mentality hasn't exactly yielded the best results these past few years.
Not under Fuente, they're not. A win "streak" requires more than one wins......
Rephrase: A win streak doesn't start until the second win, IM(ns)HO.
3. 3 wins is officially a winning streak. Only 2 is not an approved Lou Brown "streak".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLCLMEYp9s0
So we're the rumors true?
Yes. There were rumors.
Yes, we were truly rumors.
I thought they were the friends we made along the way
Are we?
True. There were rumors. 😂
So who is coaching against the dookies? Asking for a friend...
No one. Just like the last few
weeksseasons /sthis one probably needs to be locked up, just sayin
We are locking this thread now as it is approaching 500 comments without any corroboration from more credible sources, and much of the discussion has driven off-topic.
When more credible news arrives on this subject, feel free to start a new thread.